Ep 1192 | Jase Responds to Trump’s Heaven Question: We All Fall Short But Jesus is the Way

Summary

---

Podcast Detailed Summary

Overview

Podcast: Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Episode: 1192 – Jase Responds to Trump’s Heaven Question: We All Fall Short But Jesus is the Way
Date: October 22, 2025
Featured Hosts: Jase Robertson, Zach Dasher, Jay Stone, Jason Robertson

Main Theme:
The hosts discuss former President Trump's recent public musings about salvation and heaven, the widespread confusion about works versus faith as a path to salvation, and the media’s inability to articulate a clear biblical response. They also explore how Christians should communicate the Gospel in moments when faith is placed in the spotlight, using relatable analogies, scripture, and personal stories. The episode blends humor, cultural commentary, music talk, and deep dives into scriptural discussion with their signature down-to-earth, relatable style.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Walk-Up Songs, Motivation, and Setting the Tone

(01:03–14:48)

• The episode begins with the hosts debating their ideal “walk-up songs” (the music that would hypothetically play when they make a grand entrance).
  • Jase leans toward Tom Petty’s "I Won’t Back Down" for its spirit of perseverance, also connecting it to the podcast's unashamed stance.
    • Jase (05:38): “That’s why I’m on I Won’t Back Down. Which kind of goes with Unashamed. That’s why I thought it'd be perfect.”
  • Zach considers "Louisiana Saturday Night" for its sense of home and nostalgia.
  • Jay jokes about "Blaze of Glory" but acknowledges it may not be the most motivational.
• They use this light topic as a segue into themes of mindset, motivation, and personal mission in life and faith.
• Insight: Personal choices—even in music—reflect deeper motivations and reveal priorities about what inspires and energizes us.

---

2. Media & The Trump “Heaven Question”

(19:45–24:37, 24:37–28:00, 30:39–32:46)

• Recent Trump comments regarding heaven sparked a media frenzy:
  • Initially suggests that his efforts for world peace "will probably put me into heaven."
  • Later humbly states he doesn’t think he’s getting to heaven, joking maybe he's "living in heaven now on this plane."
• The hosts lament that media panels and even invited pastors often fumble these moments, sidestepping clear gospel articulation in favor of vagueness.
  • Jase (24:37): “When you have those opportunities, you declare that [truth]. But it’s almost like we have this separation of church and state... I wish I could tell him what the details are. And meanwhile, I’m like, this is the moment!”
  • Jase (27:27): “In both cases, you know, I was frustrated because I was like, we need to start doing our job better here.”
• They critique the casual (and flawed) logic of commentators like Megyn Kelly, who argued that Trump’s 'good deeds' as a lawyer should ensure his place in heaven.
  • Jase (27:51): “She’s like, I’m a lawyer, look at what he’s done. If he’s not in, nobody's going to [heaven].”

---

3. What Does the Bible Say About Salvation? Grace Over Works

(28:00–34:32, 38:17–42:24, 49:36–53:43)

• Jase reads from Titus 3, strongly emphasizing that salvation is by God’s mercy, not by human deeds.
  • Jase (32:46): "He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy... so that having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life."
• Jay and Zach note the struggle many—even Christians—have with accepting grace over works.
  • Jay (32:47): “You have to draw them into the inevitable conclusion of their own situation... that they, you, have to really experience the grace of God.”
  • Jay: “If we think that we’re good enough to be in the presence of God, our problem is that we don’t have a high enough view of God.”
• They address common legalistic or performance-based misunderstandings—“good enough” isn’t the measure; everyone has fallen short (Romans 3).
  • Zach (34:32): “...there’s no one righteous, not even one.”
• Using analogies (“walk-up song” misunderstandings, vacation destination heaven, marriage as illustration of relationship over outcome), they press the importance of a relational view of life in Christ, rather than a merit-based checklist.
  • Jay (41:02): “I loved John Piper’s... ‘God is the Prize.’ Heaven is heaven because that’s where God is—God is the actual prize himself.”
  • Zach (42:24): “Is staying married the goal? Yes. But is that the only goal? No. It’s about the journey, about oneness. The same is true with salvation.”

---

4. Humility, Trump’s Public Wrestling, and Why Christians Should Respond Boldly

(34:32–38:42)

• The hosts note the rarity—and spiritual significance—of a President publicly admitting doubt about his eternal status.
  • Jason (38:17): “Well, that was like the biggest moment of humility that I’ve ever watched. He’s like, no, I’m not making it. There’s nothing I can do.”
• They challenge Christians and pastors to be ready with a simple, clear articulation of the gospel when the spotlight is on faith—especially when the world is confused.

---

5. The Role of Christians: Declaring the Gospel, Not Getting Bottled Up by Division

(38:43–41:02)

• The fragmentation of Christianity is a stumbling block; people worry about using the 'right' language for a particular group and end up saying nothing.
  • Jason: “If you don’t say the right catchphrases... that’s deemed you didn’t handle that correctly. And people in the moment are not sure what to say, so they don’t say anything.”

---

6. God – The Only True Creator; Our Role is to Build on Jesus

(45:44–49:36)

• Discussion of the Hebrew word for "create" (bara)—its uniqueness, and how only God creates from nothing.

  • Jason (47:05): “That word is used 50 times, and every time, God is the subject. When you think, I’m doing this and that to make it [to heaven]... that didn’t happen by accident.”
  • Jay (47:21): “The word actually means to create out of nothing... When God creates, he doesn’t need anything.”

• Human “creation” is always with pre-existing material.
  The analogy runs: we don’t manufacture salvation—God re-creates us by grace.

• Zach connects this to Ephesians 3, noting God’s intent is to make His wisdom known through the church—not just to earthly onlookers, but to heavenly beings—through Christ.

---

7. The Foundation: Jesus Alone

(51:42–53:55)

• Jase quotes 1 Corinthians 3:10-15, emphasizing Jesus is the only sure foundation:
  • Jason (52:46): “For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ... If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward... If it can burn up, it’s not that important.”

---

8. Final Takeaway: How to Live Unashamed

(53:55–End)

• Zach summarizes the takeaway for Trump or anyone wrestling with assurance:
  • Zach (53:55):
    1. Romans 1:16 – “We can be unashamed of the gospel.”
    2. Hebrews 2:11 – “Jesus is not ashamed to call us brothers and sisters.”
    3. Hebrews 11:16 – “We long for something better, even now; therefore, God is not ashamed to be called our God.”
  • The only way to have confidence is “through Jesus Christ, as the Holy Spirit lives through you… that’s the key to knowing one way or the other.”

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Jase (24:37): “You declare that. But it’s almost like we have this separation of church and state... I wish I could tell him what the details are. And meanwhile, I’m like, this is the moment! Let’s talk about how do you get to heaven.”

Jay (32:47): “If we think that we’re good enough to be in the presence of God, our problem is that we don’t have a high enough view of God. We’ve had to bring him down so that we can actually say, oh yeah, we’re not that bad. When you see how good he is, how holy he is... nobody can stand before him and say, look at all the good stuff I’ve done.”

Jason (38:17): “Well, that was like the biggest moment of humility that I’ve ever watched. He was like, no, I’m not making it. There’s nothing I can do... at least they should have given him some credit for that.”

Jay (41:02): “Heaven is heaven because that’s where God’s at. God is the actual prize himself. So when you think about a relationship, you wouldn’t say… I don’t know if I’m actually in a relationship [with my wife]. If the prize is the relationship, then it’s not a destination—a vacation spot—you’re getting to.”

Jason (52:46): “Whatever you’re going to build on, if you want to have success, the foundation has to be Jesus... If it can burn up, it’s not that important.”

Zach (53:55): “You can live an unashamed life and you can have confidence as you approach, but it can only be done through Jesus Christ, as the Holy Spirit lives through you.”

---

Key Timestamps

• 01:03–10:31 – Walk-up songs, motivation, and personality
• 19:45–24:37 – Trump’s "Heaven" comments and media response
• 24:37–28:00 – Frustration with vague faith talk in the public eye
• 30:39–32:46 – Reading Titus 3 and discussing salvation by grace, not works
• 38:17–38:42 – Commentary on Trump’s humility and public openness
• 41:02–42:24 – Heaven as relationship, not just destination
• 45:44–49:36 – Only God creates (bara); our role is to build on what He’s made
• 51:42–53:55 – 1 Corinthians 3: Jesus as the only foundation
• 53:55–End – Final message: Be unashamed, confident in Christ alone

---

Tone & Style

• Warm, conversational, funny, and deeply biblical. The hosts share personal stories and honest reflections while encouraging listeners to see faith as a life-giving relationship with God, not a legalistic system or mere destination.
• Direct challenges to Christian leaders: "Don't miss the moment to proclaim the gospel when the world’s listening."
• Accessible analogies: From walk-up songs to marriage to building with wood and hay, familiar examples illuminate profound spiritual truths.

---

Summary Takeaway

This episode uses a pop-culture moment—Trump’s candid comments about heaven—as a springboard for dialogue about the heart of Gospel assurance: We all fall short, but Jesus is the Way. Christians should respond clearly and compassionately when faith becomes a national topic, remembering that being “unashamed” means seizing every opportunity to clarify that salvation is God’s gift, not our achievement.

Transcript

[Scott Hanson]

I'm Scott Hanson, host of NFL Red Zone. Lowe's Nose Sundays are for football. That's why we're here to help you get your next DIY project done. Even when the clock isn't on your side. Whether that's a new Filtreat filter or Bosch and Cobalt power tools, Lowe's has everything you need to feel like the MVP of diy. So get it done and earn your Sunday Shop now in store and online. Lowe's official partner of the NFL.

[Jason]

Well, I was down on my last.

[Zach]

Dollar Then I started saving because the bank said fiscal restraint is what you're.

[Jason]

Craving so I put my earnings in.

[Zach]

A high yield account let the savings compound and the interest mount I'm optimizing cash flow putting debt in check now time is my praying and not a pain in the neck and we've got a little cash to rebuild the old.

[Jason]

Deck Boring Money moves make kinda lame songs but they sound pretty sweet to your wallet BNC bank brilliantly boring since 1865 I am unashamed.

[Jay]

What about you?

[Zach]

Welcome back to Unashamed. As always, our pre conversations lead usually to what we're going to begin with. Couple of things Jace1 we're in our boxes because I'm in Gulf Shores Axon, North Carolina Jason West Monroe. But I noticed in my little frame up of you you had some Chick fil a bags and I had Chick fil a news that I passed along to you and for some reason today I'm a regular fountain of chick fil A news. Saw it on the news yesterday that the longest wait time of the major fast food carriers and I was not surprised is Chick fil A and it was like seven over seven minutes. It was the only one over seven minutes. Zach claims that is because they're so busy which I agree Zach with that.

[Jay]

They got a longer line. Yeah, line is longer so you're going to but it's not the one thing.

[Jason]

I didn't point out. Seven minutes is not very long.

[Zach]

True. Especially for the as long as the line is. I mean have you ever been to one that you could just drive up and order? I've never done it so there's always people there. Interesting.

[Jason]

Yeah, seven minutes is pretty good.

[Jay]

Now there's a. There's another place that sells chicken that I won't say their name but they are the worst service on the planet.

[Zach]

And unfortunately they're Louisiana company too.

[Jason]

I but the numbers don't lie. I'll just say Chick fil a. I.

[Jay]

Don'T know who you're talking about. I'm not talking about canes. Cane's is good.

[Zach]

No, I want to talk about canes.

[Jay]

Okay, you got a cane's. If you put a cane's up here, I'd be there every week.

[Zach]

I was telling my Popeyes, which I can't eat anymore. And. And. But it's very slow here.

[Jason]

I don't know about validating my point about chicken is on people's minds more.

[Zach]

It is. That's. That's why Jay say where I go, people bring up the red chicken. So. So here's this interesting that I share with Jay's to the. They also showed the same poll or the same group of people said, you know, they polled the people. Who are they most satisfied with overall and. And drive through, and guess who it was. Chick fil A. 98%. They were quite a few points higher than the next one, which I think was. Starbucks was number three. I forgot who number two was. So I thought that was interesting that they're the. You wait there longer, but you're happier once you're there and you're happier once you leave, apparently so.

[Jay]

Well, I'll tell you, it's like traffic. If. If you put me in a traffic jam where the. There's no motion, I would rather be moving. And even if I take it takes me the same amount of time to get from point A to point B. If I'm moving, then I'm okay with that.

[Zach]

If.

[Jay]

If it's. If you're just stuck. So I think that's the thing about Chick Fil A is you're always. You're. You're always moving. Yeah, they keep the line moving where what you don't want is you don't want to sit there in the line for seven minutes at the window. That would be a. An unpleasurable experience.

[Zach]

Zach, this has to all be proved out by your theory, because when you go to an amusement park, you notice many years ago they went to the Snake Line, and now it's everywhere. Airports, all of it. Because if you're moving, you feel like it's not as long a line as if you were just standing there and you're out of sight, just in a long line that just feels hopeless. But if you're on the move, you're thinking, well, maybe it probably takes the same time, but it just feels better.

[Jason]

This is why I like doing the podcast here, y', all, because y' all are talking about things I've never even thought about.

[Zach]

Well, you do it all the time, Jay. You Just do it. When it comes to the Bible, we do it on just.

[Jason]

Well, I'm listening to music when I'm in a line, which I don't go, you know, very often to a fast food place, but when I do, I'm jamming, so I'm oblivious with the idea.

[Zach]

Of waiting, which is good. That's why you're so cheerful. So speaking of music, that was the other thing I was going to bring up is for the last two days, ever since a couple of podcasts ago, which for us has been a couple of days for you. It'll probably be a minute to the audience but. But Jace introduced a song on our podcast. Not introduced it, but I mean introduced it into our consciousness. The Tom Petty I Won't Back down song is this new walk up and I have been singing it for two days. Jays. I even pulled it on my phone and listened to it one time just so I could say, so you have now embedded that song into my brain. I cannot get it out. And it is a great song. So kudos to you.

[Jason]

You're welcome. Zach, have you got the tour put together? What are we. Are we going to do?

[Zach]

So that's got to find out if. Can we call it that I Won't Back down tour and use the song as our. As our walkout?

[Jay]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Do you have to. Is that a. You got to find out.

[Jay]

You probably got to pay for it. But you know, I am from Gainesville, Florida originally. I was.

[Zach]

Yeah. You can make a deal though.

[Jay]

So I might have some. I might have to just reach into the old.

[Jason]

Well Rolodex Trump is not paying for every time he walks out to ymca. He's not paying for that, right?

[Jay]

I don't know if he is.

[Zach]

I don't know.

[Jason]

Well if he's paying for that. Well, I guess he could afford it.

[Zach]

But I don't had to not play some stuff because the people who made the song like threw a hissy fit about it so they quit doing it. Which is so stupid because you think about it. I mean your song is being played to millions of people watching something, you know, just because you disagree with the guy's politics or whatever. I mean, is that really the way to go? I mean people do it all the time. But I don't know, it just seems crazy to me.

[Jason]

Yeah, I don't know. We had to check on that.

[Zach]

So Zach, since Jace has now got at least one walk up song, I guess we need to figure out what would. I haven't read really thought about this much but what, what would our walk up songs be? I mean what's. What's a song? Do you have one rattling around at the front of mind? That would be your song. Jace, do you have any more songs that you would use for potential walk up just in case the Tom Petty estate people. Because he's gone now. But cases people don't want us using this song.

[Jason]

Well, I'm kind of weird in this area. My walk up songs constantly change. But I kind of have different songs for different categories of life. So if I'm like going to do something what I deem as manly, you know, I went treasure hunting yesterday. So when I. And it was a long drive so to parts unknown, it was an adventure. So first song I listened to is I'm a Man by Chicago. Now that classic is a classic.

[Zach]

That's a good one.

[Jason]

And if you're unsure of it, it just starts off with. Then there's a little. It's the greatest drum. I don't know what you call it. What do they call it in. In a band when the drum. When they do the drum.

[Jay]

Percussion.

[Jason]

Yeah, I know that but I mean they call it a, you know when they like highlight the. The drums. No, I was thinking it's not solo. It's not. It's like a drum not roll.

[Jay]

I don't know. Performance.

[Jason]

No, it's just like a. They call it something, there's a catchphrase.

[Zach]

I bet you perky would know. He's our local percussionist.

[Jason]

Anyway. Yeah, it's. There's about a one minute just. You feel like you're in some kind of jungle with just adventure awaiting. So that's that I'm a man. I do that during duck season several times on if I'm having any kind of problems, you know, with my wife or. Because look, marriage is a process. It's difficult. You got to overcome adversity. You know where I'm going with that? So it's like if I ever get mad, if I'm mad, that's when I crank up radar love.

[Zach]

Sensing a theme here on Jason that's.

[Jason]

Actually by the band Golden Earring, which is kind of the funniest name ever. And then I have my, you know, my spiritual walk up song which is usually, like I said, Christian songs. But I don't mind a worldly song if it has a Christian foundation or it calls someone to think deeply about God. So that's why I'm.

[Jay]

I'm on.

[Jason]

I Won't Back down. Which kind of goes with unashamed. That's why I thought it'd be perfect.

[Zach]

And no, I like, I like the. I like the connection to our whole theme of the podcast. I think that's really, really good.

[Jason]

So I gave you three. Alright. I'm sure there's a couple more, but you see how I categorize what.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jason]

What I'm doing.

[Zach]

Yeah. So what's yours, Zach? You have one? I don't. The only one. I just came immediately to front of mind and this is one they also play at LSU games. Not necessarily the Garth Brook songs. I'm not that familiar with those, but it's one called Louisiana Saturday night by Mel McDaniel from 1980. It's always been one of my favorite.

[Jay]

You get down the fiddle, get down.

[Zach]

To bow Kick off your shoes and you throw them on the flow. So that. And then. In fact, when dad was on the podcast, we were talking about something. I'll never forget this. It's been a few years ago and he said something about a one eyed dog. And. And I looked at him and I was like, where are you going there, dad? And he was like, you know the song and, and I'd forgotten that line was in the song because the. From the front porch they had a one eyed dog and. But dad remembered it so I thought, well, let's Dad's favorite. So that would be one. I wouldn't mind walking out to a crowd. I mean, it's nothing spiritual necessarily, just because we're from Louisiana, I suppose.

[Jay]

Hey, do you guys make time for your annual checkup, Doctor's visits, lab, blood work? Well, I've got kids. I've got five kids and one of them's very young and I want to stay healthy for them. And I just found out, by the way, that we all have two ages. Well, one is the one that's on your license and the other one is your body's biological age. And get this, I've already lowered mine without even realizing. Here's the problem. Most Americans eat a ton of processed food and not nearly enough fruits and vegetables. That means many of us are actually 10, sometimes even 15 years older on the inside than our real age. We're like a ticking time bomb. But a major university study just found a way to slow that down. And all it took was this right here. Field of Greens. No diet change, no new workouts, just filled greens. Every fruit and vegetable in Field of Greens is doctor Selected for a specific health benefit. Some are for your cells, heart, lungs, kidney, metabolism and even healthy weight. That gives me peace of mind knowing That I can slow down how fast I'm aging so that I can be there for my kids in the future. I also take this every day, and it's one of the things that helps me stay on top. I don't have that afternoon crash. I sleep better. Just my overall health has been improved. I want to encourage you to join us. Skip the untested green drinks and go with field of greens. Check out the university study and get 20% off when you use promo code unashamedieldofgreens.com that's fieldofgreens.com promo code unashamed. It just brought you home. It was familiar. Yeah. The one that popped in my mind, I never thought about it. I mean, honestly, I like the Tom Petty song. That's a good one, Jase. But the one that popped in my mind was the. From what was the Western with Billy the Kid. The blaze of glory.

[Zach]

Oh, yeah.

[Jay]

I'm going down in the blaze of glory Young guns. Yeah, that's the. That's the song that popped in my head as my walk up song.

[Zach]

You're going down Shot down, shot down.

[Jay]

Shot down in the blaze of glory.

[Zach]

I think it's a Bon Jovi zone.

[Jason]

Yeah, I'm feeling like that's a bit disturbing there.

[Jay]

I just said. I mean, it popped in my head. That's the one I thought. I mean, yeah.

[Jason]

We need to rebuild you. You're going down in a blaze of glory.

[Zach]

We're showing right now Zach's mindset.

[Jay]

Well, the second one I thought about is called Regulators by Warren G and Nate Dog from when I was in high school. So that popped up too. That wouldn't be appropriate as well. I mean, all the things are coming back now from the, you know, stuff I used to listen to. I'm like, yeah, but that one wouldn't work anymore.

[Jason]

It's at this moment, I think that y' all are missing the point of having a walk up song. This is supposed to motivate you ye to great things and to accomplish something that you might be nervous about. But you're like, hey, I need some. It's stirring the emotions. It's not as important as content, but it's like, you know when you hear it in the background, the drumbeat and let's go. That's why they have a band. Their band is trying to.

[Zach]

Jason. I'm not nervous when I walk out in front of a crowd. I don't know.

[Jason]

Well, I'm just saying if you have a football team and the band's over there saying before the game starts. Let's crank up. I'm going down in a blaze of glory. It just not. I, I don't. I think we have a failure to communicate here.

[Jay]

Yeah, it's not a great. It's not a great motivation. And even the Regulator song is about, you know that actually, as I said that. But that starts with a line from the movie Young Guns. That whole.

[Zach]

You like. You like the movie Young Guns?

[Jay]

I did like the term, but I did too.

[Zach]

It was a good one.

[Jay]

But I'll tell you a good one. If you want to get fired up, though, if you just want to get like fired up, a great walkout song is Eye of the Tiger.

[Jason]

Okay, now that, that was my point. Now that's.

[Zach]

That's what.

[Jason]

Efficient.

[Jay]

You know, that's what I ran out to in high school football in Trenton, Florida. Trenton Tigers. Go Tigers. Eye the tiger. And that was.

[Jason]

That's a good one.

[Jay]

That's a good one.

[Zach]

You know who sat who did that one? Frank Stallone, brother of Sylvester Stallone, for one of the Rocky movies. Was it Rocky? Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Excellent. So that's a good choice. Yeah, songs like that.

[Jason]

Living on a Prayer, Bon Jovi.

[Jay]

Okay, that's it.

[Zach]

That's, you know, that was Jason, that was Maddie's. So. So tell me, Maddie. That's good. Well, listen. And it starts out with that really funky. Whoa. You know, it starts out with that. So I got a story for that one. And Maddie, you'll love this. So we were at a wedding and the wedding was actually an old rocker from. From our church named Spence. And he was married a girl named Alicia. And he's long hair, he kind of looked like Bon Jovi, which is kind of funny. And he was a rocker. He was a guitar player and he was in a band. And so, you know, they came to Christ later. So they had kind of had a pretty good past, you know, and so they asked Bill Smith to marry him. Well, by this point, Bill was quite along in years. I'd say he was probably in his late 70s, well, maybe early 70s, so it wasn't that far along. And he. So it. You know how everybody has their walk off song from the wedding. It's always something kind of fun and frolicky or whatever, you know. So that was. That was their. That was their song. So he finishes the wedding and. And so when you do a wedding, they all leave, you know, and there wasn't a huge wedding party anyway. So when that song starts out. Whoa, whoa. So they all leave. Bill Smith is just standing up on the podium by himself, and he's kind of. He's. You remember that, Jason? Oh, I.

[Jason]

Well, I had the privilege of sharing the gospel with Spence and Lej. I don't know if you knew that.

[Zach]

I did not know that.

[Jason]

Well, Al, I felt the same way as Bill Smith when he stood up there during that study. And with my human origin mind, I thought, there's no. Because I studied with Alicia first. I was like, she's not going to do this. It was a confrontational. It's quite the study, which is so amazing. When you see God change their lives, it's just awesome. I mean, I was dead wrong. The gospel can change anybody's heart. Sometimes. You got to have a confrontational study. I look back on it and smile about it now, but I thought, this is going to be a rough.

[Zach]

Well, you know what's funny, Jace, is, you know, we talk all the time about how this thing works in people's lives, and you never know where you fit into the program. I didn't know you were the one that studied with them. And you probably didn't know. When I was preaching down in Allah, which is about an hour south of West Monroe, I was young. I was in school. I preached there kind of through my preaching school and my internship. And this woman who was there was. She wanted me to meet her nephew, and she invited him to church. He wouldn't come to church. It was him and another guy in his band. But she asked if I'd come eat lunch at their house after I preached one Sunday. And I said yeah. And he was there. And guess who it was. Spence Young. Now, at this time, he was fully in the world. I mean, he was nice to me, but he was not interested. But it so reminded me of dad with that first time with Smith, because I was trying to, like, you know, just befriend him a little bit, talk to him a little bit about Jesus. He wasn't interested. But you never, you know, you. Sometimes you plant seeds, sometimes you water, sometimes you're, you know, in the process. But I had no idea you and I both had been involved early, before his conversion. And then Smith was the one that married him, which was interesting.

[Jason]

That was a funny man. It's a good memory. I remember that I felt sorry for Bill because I was like, oh. And he kind of moved a couple times.

[Zach]

He tried to, like, get into it, but he's just an old man trying to keep the rhythm. But, you know, I've been up there before, too, and it's. It's the most awkward place in the world to be standing there for the two minutes while that song plays and everybody's looking at you, waiting for you just to, you know, let us go.

[Jason]

Well, to Maddie's point, that song was used in a marriage right down the street as their walk in song and walk out, which I thought was kind of awesome.

[Zach]

So I guess, I guess unashamed nation, you can let us know in whatever ways you do some good walk up Psalms, maybe you can give us some ideas.

[Jason]

Well, I think it. After listening to Yalls responses on how different, you know, humans think about things. But you know, what's been in the news lately, I wanted to bring this up. Unless y' all just want to head off into John 18, go ahead. Well, President Trump had made a comment about, and this was a few weeks ago, because, you know, if something spiritual comes up, look, I'm attentive. And he had talked about ending these wars, and he's like, you know, this will probably put me into heaven. Well, all the religious people were like, oh, good grief, how could you say that? You can't get to heaven by any kind of act that you do or making the world a safer place. Well, then just a few days ago, he was asked, now that this conflict with Israel and Gaza is over and all that, there was a question asked by somebody when he was on a plane. It was like, so now that that's happened and if you can figure out a way to end the Russian Ukrainian war, would that get you into heaven? Well, his response this time was the complete opposite. He was like, I don't know. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to heaven. Something along those lines.

[Zach]

He said, I'm pretty sure there's nothing that'll get me to heaven.

[Jason]

That's what he said. And he's like, I mean, maybe I'm living in heaven now on this plane. Which I thought of Zach, you know, it's like, oh, he's kind of given the theory of heaven now. And maybe later now, not yet. But it was so interesting. The reason I'm bringing this up, because when that happened, as soon as I got home, which was a couple days ago, Missy brought it up. She's like, oh, these media people trying to break down the spiritual aspects of what Trump said. She said, it's literally ridiculous. And she played me a couple because they don't. They're like, what does this mean? They're having pastors on the panel trying to explain now, is this a good thing or a bad thing?

[Zach]

The Political ramifications of a guy saying he's not sure if he's going to make it or not. I love it.

[Jason]

But the point I wanted to make is just like, we just asked what our walk up song was, and after y' all gave me yours, I thought, I don't think they understand the concept of walk up song. That's what I was thinking.

[Zach]

I haven't had a chance to think about it.

[Jason]

Just you, my family, you know, And I'm like, and this is the same thing the religious world does. He brings up heaven, and then there's like 170 different people coming up, trying to figure out, now, what did he mean by heaven? Was he talking about a heaven and earth, or was he talking about, you know, how was Israel involved? And I feel like that's the frustration, because the two clips she showed me, one guy had a pastor on, and he was asking him, like, you know, what did he mean by that? Because obviously the commentator had no idea. And he was kind of making fun of himself, saying, I mean, I've read the Bible, but I mean, what. How does this work?

[Zach]

So, Jase, I've always thought one of the best qualities of duck hunting was it was a community situation.

[Jason]

So I think that's what led me to it. I never really got into deer hunting past the fact of just eating deer. They're delicious. But the duck hunting, it was a camaraderie, and I think it was a united effort to invest in the land itself.

[Zach]

Right.

[Jason]

I mean, the process is involving wetlands, so. And they should be protected and invested in.

[Zach]

Our good friends@duck stamp.com are always now reminding us that, you know, part of hunting is getting your federal duck stamp. And to do that, sometimes you have to have a reminder from your comrades that are hunting that, hey, you don't want to be the one that doesn't have his duck stamp. Because then all of a sudden, we got an right. You got to go back to your truck. You got all these issues that go on, and let's face it, we want to be in the blind together, especially on that opening morning, enjoying the camaraderie of a duck hunt. And so to do that, you need your duck stamp. It's digital, it's physical. They've got [e-mail] unashamed. It's very easy. Makes a big difference. As Jay said, it pays for it. Also into conservation. Check them out. Duckstamp.com Unashamed. Get yours today.

[Jason]

But the pastor kept saying, well, I wish I could talk to Trump and He said, I do think it was an act of humility. And he's technically right. You know, he was kind of saying, yeah, you can't make it to heaven based on just how you perform on earth. Which was true. And he's like, but I would love to talk to Trump further. And so he asked him another question and he said the same thing. And I'm like, it just made me so agitated because I thought, well, tell the audience what you would tell him. Right. You're in front of a mic, you have a media person from the world saying, what does this mean? And you're not telling us what you would tell him. He just kept saying, I wish I could talk to him. And it made me think that. But I just think as the church, we should be declaring that. When you have those opportunities, you declare that. But it's almost like we have this separation of church and state. Oh, I'm on a media outlet, so I'm not going to give you the details. But I wish I could tell him what the details are. And meanwhile, I'm like, this is the moment. Let's talk about how do you get to heaven and just give a simple little blurb. So I was frustrated with that one, the other one, I remember who it was. My wife listens to Megyn Kelly sometimes, even though she does have a bit of a potty mouse if you go there. But just she talks about politics. But she had a guest on and they were discussing the same thing. And so the woman kind of said a similar thing. Well, it does show his humility. And there's some God consciousness. And she kind of went to ever since he got shot in the ear, the attempted assassination. And she's like, there seems to be some kind of seriousness about. Remember when he said, you know, I believe God saved me for a purpose?

[Zach]

He definitely feels Jason's sense of destiny since that happened. He's definitely having an out loud struggle on what that means. Even though we know he's heard the gospel because dad shared it with him, but at the same time he's trying to figure that out, but he's doing it out loud, which is interesting.

[Jason]

Yeah. So anyway, so. But then she was real vague on, I'm not sure what he thinks about faith and the Bible and heaven and God. And so it goes back to Megyn Kelly and she's like, oh, well, he's in. I mean, I'm a lawyer, I'm just telling you right now. I mean, he solved eight wars. If he's not in, nobody's In. And Missy's like, can you believe this?

[Zach]

What?

[Jason]

All of a sudden you're a lawyer, so you're qualified. And so in both cases, you know, I was frustrated because I was like, we need to start doing our job better here.

[Jay]

Well, see, well, you notice there's a little bit of truth in everything that they were saying. It's just not like her making Kelly's point. If that's what she said, I have to take your word for it, but.

[Jason]

Trust me, that's what she said. I listened to it. Yeah, that's what she said. She's like, I'm a lawyer. Look at what he's done. If he's not in, nobody's going to.

[Jay]

I would have been like, well, Romans 3 basically says that nobody's in. You're right. Every. Everybody has fallen short of the glory of God. All of us, we fall equally condemned.

[Zach]

I don't know if you guys saw it yesterday, but to amplify what Jay's has already said. I watched. Did y' all watch? There was a whole. Fox carried the whole. Charlie Kirk receiving the Presidential Medal of Honor yesterday. And I watched the whole thing. I just happened to be watching the news at the time because it happened right at the, like, 5 o' clock hour. And it was amazing. Trump said some. And somebody wrote them, obviously, for him, but said some beautiful things about heaven and God. And, of course, all in relationship to Charlie. You know, he. He was funny. Is that he had full assurance that Charlie was in heaven just based on what he was hearing from other people and said that out loud. But then Jay's talking about. People understand. They got a microphone, of course. His wife Erica, who's been now. Who's now taken over Turning Point, she received the award on his behalf and again, just completely knocks it out of the park in her speech. And of course, Trump is standing behind her, and he's just. It is kind of funny because she's very personal about Charlie. She tells a lot of. Really? Because yesterday was his birthday when they honored him. It was also a day of observance for him, which I thought was a neat thing, but. So she was very appreciative. And she told Trump that, you know, I've been trying to get Charlie the right gift, the perfect gift for seven and a half years. I couldn't ever figure it out. And now that he's crossed over to heaven, which is what she said. She said, you've given him the perfect gift because his whole life was about freedom. But I just. I was incredibly moved to Tears a couple of times. But she took the opportunity to talk about Jesus, talk about the gospel. Of course, she talked a lot about her husband, but she talked a lot about freedom in relationship. And so to do it in that context, when you, you had a capt captivated audience, not just the ones there, but all of us who are watching and everywhere around the world. I mean, I just thought she understands that this is a moment to advance and not just their political organization, but to advance the gospel. I mean, she put them together. She talked about him giving his testimony all around the country, and that every time he did that, he shared the gospel of Jesus. And she used the exact same languaging we do when we talk about the Bible. We talk about Jesus. And so. And Trump standing right behind her. So I just, I just thought it was another opportunity to advance what we're doing. And she stepped through and I mean, she shined bright. It was really, really, really good.

[Jason]

Well, my point, though, that I was making Zach even in the Megyn Kelly. Well, Megyn Kelly professes unashamedly to be a believer in Jesus. I mean, I think she's some form of the Catholic wing.

[Jay]

I think she's Roman Catholic.

[Jason]

Yeah. But I mean, at times it's frustrating because the reason I don't listen to her podcast about the new. I mean, the main reason is like, I don't. I cannot stand it if you're making four letter words every other word. You know, I just, I'm out on that. But my other point is not to do the same thing that the person she was interviewing or the other interview that I'll watch. I want to read this Titus 3, because I thought, you know, there are some little paragraphs that just pretty much sum up when I hear like, this battle of thinking, oh, is he going to go to heaven? Based on, you know, doing this or that. And I wanted to read this. This is Titus 3, verse 3. At one time, we were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another, which I'll stop reading here and just say pretty much sums up human beings at some point in their life, to Zack's point on the Romans 3. But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and the renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior. So that having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

[Zach]

Oh, that's good.

[Jay]

That is good. I mean, I think that's the, to me, that's the, that's the hard thing that when you're talking with somebody that doesn't understand that, that, that they, you have to draw them into the, the inevitable conclusion of their own situation. And that, and sometimes that's people that are Christians, maybe they grew up in a Christian home and grew up in the church, but they were taught some kind of legalistic works based salvation and they just haven't really experienced the grace of God. But I think when you really push into people and you ask them questions like, but at the end of the day when you put your head on your pillow, you kind of know you're not good enough no matter what you've done. Because everybody feels, I think everybody feels on some level a degree of shame and guilt. Right? I mean, I think everybody has that thing in them. And if we're going to somehow get to heaven based on what we do, I think when we're honest with ourselves, we really are at that conclusion of Romans 3, that everybody's just fallen short of his glory. And if we think that we're good enough to be in the presence of God, I would argue that our problem is that we don't have a high enough view of God. We've had to bring him down so that we can actually say, oh yeah, we're not that bad. When you see how good he is, how holy he is, how mighty he is, nobody can stand before him. Nobody can stand before him and say, look at all the good stuff I've done. That's why Francis Schaeffer used a line that I love. He says, we actually raise the empty hands of faith. You don't bring anything to the table at all.

[Zach]

So we're living in a time where lies are easy and the truth is costly. And nowhere is this more devastating than the battle for life. That's exactly what Natalia faced. Her first reaction to her pregnancy was abortion, because that's the lie that she was told. But once she heard the heartbeat of her child, she knew that God wanted her to have her baby and that all things would be possible through him. Natalia chose life and was provided with the love, support and resources that she needed at preborn Network clinics. This happens on average 200 times a day because of the support from people like you. This is why we love the work that's going on at Preborn Network clinics, but it's also why we're all three involved heavily in the pro life ministry. It's important for us at this time to fight for life. Jesus decided to come to this earth through the womb of a young woman, and that shows that we're on the right side of this issue. So as abortion continues to rise, preborn is expanding their life, affirming care in the darkest corners of our nation to help more hurting women and save more babies. If you have the means, would you consider a leadership gift to save babies in a big way? Your tax deductible donation of $15,000 will place a machine in a needy woman's center, saving countless lives for years to come. Give now dial pound 250 and say the keyword baby. That's pound 250, baby. Or you can visit preborn.comunashamed. that's preborn.comunashamed. and I think it's back. You mentioned Romans 3. You know, there's no one righteous, not even one that somehow we could claim it was possible for us. And so, you know, even if somehow we thought we could have the ledger, right? And we kind of grew up in a background that there's like a ledger of. On one side is all the bad things you've done, on the other side's the good things. If that line is long enough on the good side. And if you ask forgiveness for sins the last second before you crossed over, you might make it. And so, you know, but that's a far cry from what we see in the New Testament. But at the same time, I think that the fact that our president is like publicly questioning his salvation or wonder of it, I think a lot of that's tied into Jace's right. It was. It was back to when he was, you know, shot. Some of that has come forward, I think, into the Charlie Kirk Persona because now, I mean, look at the funeral they had. He's surrounded by a lot of people we know who are very godly people singing amazing worship songs. And all of a sudden you're immersed into a world where you see the spirit of God through people. And it's intriguing, especially when you wonder how you fit into the overall destiny. I do want to say one thing. Jason was interesting that from the press side of things, I think they've been so. Of course they hate Trump for the most part, but outside of that, just saying, just presidents and press, they've been for so many years, having so many, whether they're conservative or liberal or somewhere in between presidents, that won't really tell you what they're thinking, but only speak and signal that they're just almost conditioned to think that everything is like some sort of sinister or positive symboling going on. And they're not used to a guy who's just publicly, out loud, questions things, including his own salvation and heart. And they're like, what does it mean? It's like Trump's just said, yeah, you know, that's the way I feel today. But he. They've never been around a guy that's been that open as the President of the United States. I think, yeah, they all.

[Jason]

I mean, because you're. To your point alone, they always, they're like, boy, he's just arrogant and all this. Well, that was like the biggest moment of humility that I've ever watched. He was like, no, I'm not making it. There's nothing I can do. I mean, it's, it's over. But I thought it was, it was strange to listen to. So at least they should have given him some credit for that.

[Jay]

The.

[Jason]

Because that was very. And I think deep down, I think we all have to think that you're just not going to be able to earn that or make up for your past mistakes. Which is why I read the Titus 3. I mean, I had a similar issue because it is frustrating with this. I think the problem is we're so splintered under the banner of Christianity, it's like if you don't say the right catchphrases particular to a certain group, well, then that's deemed. You didn't handle that correctly. And so people in the moment are not sure what to say. So they don't say anything. Kind of, to Zach's point about, yeah, there's nothing you can do. But then there's groups that, that they're like, well, we're not going to do anything then, like, post being saved. It's like, well, there's nothing I can do anyway. So, I mean, he did it all. And now I'm just going to sit here and wait. Which would be going so far down that road where you've lost the whole purpose of why God did save you and create you. What did he create you to do now? Newly created. And I think that's a whole section of the Bible that's just not talked about much.

[Jay]

Well, if we understand that eternal life, it's a quality of life in addition to quantity, but it's quality. It's a type of life in Christ in relationship with him, that actually is the good life. And so it's really a misunderstanding of that. That we think somehow that I do the right things so that I can go to the vacation spot called Heaven. That's the nice resort that we all get to end up at.

[Jason]

That's a good spot.

[Zach]

The eternal spot.

[Jason]

We're laughing, but sadly, I mean. I mean, that's why we got into a club type atmosphere. You meet once a week, you know, you put your time in. Because even that came up. You know, you attend church in these discussions. I mean, he goes to church, he's generous. I mean, you're going to make it. I mean, you've ended eight wars. You're in. You're good. That was kind of the basis of.

[Jay]

Yeah, it's like you get the big prize at the end. But I loved John Piper's. He wrote a book called God is the Prize. And so the argument he was making is that Heaven is heaven because that's where God's at. Like, God is the actual prize himself. So when you think about, like, a relationship, you'd be. If you're in a relationship with somebody, you wouldn't say, I mean, I don't. I mean, like with your wife. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if I'm, you know, I don't know if we're actually in a relationship. Like, you wouldn't phrase it like that. You know what I mean? If, like, if you love her and that's like, that's the. If the prize is the relationship, then it's not a destination that you're getting to. I think that's the hard thing that for us to understand, it's not a destination necessarily that we're getting to. It's a quality of life that we're having in Christ, which is we. It's through Christ that we actually get into the relationship with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and we get to partake of his divine nature. That's the prize is himself. And I think it's a total paradigm shift. But we want to reduce it to something that's more like, okay, what do I got to do to get to the thing? And that's not really what the gospel is.

[Zach]

Well, that's a great illustration because if you think about. You lived your life, your entire marriage, and for Lisa and I now, we've now went past 40 years. But if the whole goal was just to stay married, just so we could say, all right, we get to however old we get, and we stay married, man, we made it because we stayed married. No, what was. What was the journey like? I mean, was. I mean, you could have a journey and stay married, and it was the worst possible example of what a marriage should look like. Or you could totally be in love with each other and serve each other and be submissive to one another and everything that you do and think of the other's needs before yourself and have an incredible run and stay married. I mean, is staying married a goal? Yes. But is that the only goal? No, that's just that that's only the end results of what God has designed us to be. And that's oneness.

[Jay]

Well, y', all, you guys all have grandkids now, so I don't yet, but I'm imagining that it's a little bit like you had these moments when you're. I don't know, Jason, when you're in Montana and you got your wife there, you have all your kids there, you got the grandkids running around, and you're like, you know, this is the life that we built together. And it's got to feel a little bit like a little taste of heaven.

[Jason]

Right?

[Jay]

It's got to be a little bit of taste of. But it's the whole thing. It's not that just we got to a vacation spot. It's that, man, we're here with our people in our relationship, and you're looking around at your legacy and the new ones coming up. I mean, you're proud of your kids. It's like all of that, like, I think that's a really good picture of what it means when we say, like, life in Christ, because it's a relational life that expresses itself in the overflow of more life. And so you see it in the family more than probably anything else. Well, everybody knows that the healthcare system in America, it's an absolute train wreck. Al, you've had some health issues with Lisa over the years. I know you all have used these cost sharing plans before. And how's that worked out for you?

[Zach]

Health cost sharing made a big difference for us. Not only to be able to, you know, pay bills, but also just the idea of having people praying for you. You're praying for them? Yeah.

[Jay]

You know, there's over 100 million people who are drowning in medical debt right now, and even more don't have health insurance at all because traditional health insurance just costs way too much. But believers do have a better way. It's called Christian Healthcare Ministries. It comes in at about half the cost. CHM is a ministry first. It's where believers from all over the country, they pitch in every month to share the burdens of each other's medical bills. But it's not just about getting your medical bills paid. There's also spiritual encouragement as well, lifting you up. And since it's not traditional insurance, there's a lot more space to choose the doctors that you want to choose in the hospitals that you trust. Members have already shared more than $12 billion in medical bills together. So this isn't a joke. This is the real deal. For me, it's a no brainer because I can save cash and stop feeding money into a broken system that doesn't work. I'm a member of chm. I love what these guys are doing. I love the fact that it's FAI based. So I would encourage you to ditch your traditional health Insurance and join CHM today by visiting chministries.org Unashamed. That's chministries.org Unashaming Chministries.org Unashamed.

[Zach]

I thought.

[Jason]

Of a good point here. I was studying, I don't know, a couple days ago and went down a rabbit hole. I won't go down the rabbit hole. But what I didn't know is the Hebrew word for create. Maybe I should look up what that word is.

[Jay]

Bahra B A R A.

[Jason]

Do you know that I was listening to some Hebrew scholar and that what's unique about that when it's used in the Old Testament is that God is always the subject. Every time it's like 50 out of 50, it's used 50 times. And you say, well, what does that have to do what we're talking about? Well, think of like Psalm 51, which is a famous verse when you know David, after his sin, it says, create in me 51:10 A pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit with me. And so you see my point here. Only God is the creator. And so when you think, oh, I'm doing this and that to make it, I mean, ultimately that didn't happen by accident. Where that word is used, the word go ahead.

[Jay]

In Genesis 1, in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The word in the way you say it, like with the back of your throat, it's like a bachra, but it's B A R A. But the word actually means to create out of nothing.

[Jason]

Yeah, I noticed that too. He made that point. Same point, which, you know, what the implications of that is. It's like think about when it said, so God created them, male and female. He created them. Well, think of our current problem in our culture where all of a sudden humans are like, well, I'm just gonna be whatever I'm gonna be. I'm gonna create a new me.

[Jay]

As.

[Jason]

Far as male or female, a new.

[Zach]

Gender, a new whatever.

[Jason]

So it's like, oh, now I get why in the Hebrew language that word bahara every time God is the subject. Because, no, you need to find a place in your mind that says, this is the way I'm made, and deal with that. The fact of that, the reality.

[Jay]

Well, here's the interesting thing, is that we do create. Humans create, but the way we create is out of the stuff that's already been created. We don't create out of nothing. We create out of something. So God creates out of nothing, and then we take the stuff that God made. God created the forest, the wood, the trees. Well, guess what? I can go chop a tree down and I can make a table out of a tree, but I have to take the stuff that's been made. I can't just say, okay, let's just construct something here with no material. And then all of a sudden, boom, we have something. We have matter. That's not how we create. So we're co creators, we have dominion. We are vice regents. We are to cultivate the earth. But that's the thing. Our creation is always contingent upon the stuff that God's already created. When God creates, he doesn't need anything. He doesn't need any material. There's no matter energy. He just says, boom. His Word creates the creation. By his Word, all things are created through him, for him, by him talking about Jesus, His Word. And so it's a different type of creation. And the same thing applies whenever you see the creation of. Of our eternal life and the Holy Spirit within us, like God makes it happen, he renews us.

[Zach]

I want to read a passage. I'm so glad you brought that up, because that same word, well, the Greek version of it is in this text, but this is one of my favorites. But it really fits perfectly into the narrative of this discussion about how we view our relationship with God and how we view our salvation. Paul is talking here in Ephesians 3. 8. He says, this grace was given me, Paul, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God who created. There's the Greek word, back to Bahra, who created all things. Now listen to this. His intent was that now, where he was in the first century, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God, this Creator should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms. And I thought it was interesting because we're talking about the rulers in the earthly realms in the year 2025. But this even goes beyond Earth to all p. All beings according to his eternal purpose, which he accomplished. And here's how you know, in Christ Jesus our Lord, in him, and through faith in Him. How do we approach Him? We may approach God with freedom and confidence. So that's. That's what we're talking about, is people not having confidence to know because they really haven't figured out yet how Christ has played his role into this whole picture and into our lives. And so I just love that passage because it shows. Jason, something you said earlier in the podcast that our platform is to make that known. And we're making it known to the. In the first century, it was to those in the heavenly realms because now they understood exactly what God's design for all of the cosmos was. But now we're still making it known to everyone, including the earthly rulers or anybody else that's willing to listen or question it in their own lives.

[Jason]

Well, the verse that came to my mind, since we're talking about the context of, you know, God being the ultimate creator. Creator, and then what we build or create in quotation marks, that's 1 Corinthians 3, 10 and following this is interesting, I think, based on what we've been talking about. By the grace God has given me, which kind of similarly to what I read in Titus 3, this is where all this being a new creation comes from. Through Jesus, I laid a foundation as an expert builder and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. You're like, what does he mean here? For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. I mean, it's just a blanket phrase. Whatever you're going to build on, if you want to have success, the foundation has to be Jesus. And you're like, well, why? Well, he took our sin. He defeated the powers. He overcame death. You could list a lot of things. Verse 12. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. Well, now we're back into this heaven. Language 15. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames. So my point is, if it can burn up, it's not that important.

[Zach]

I love it.

[Jason]

If what you're building and what you're basing your faith, you're going to heaven. Whatever phrase you want to use. If it'll burn up, you better watch it.

[Zach]

Well, what I would like my message to the president, who I support and love in many ways and do think he was destined to be our president for sure, is three things. One is we can be unashamed of the gospel Romans 1:16, which is our theme verse. Because of Hebrews 2:11, Jesus is not ashamed to call us family, brothers and sisters. And because of Hebrews 11:16, we long for something better even while we're here. Therefore, God is not ashamed to be called our God. So you can live an unashamed life and you can have confidence as you approach, but it can only be done through Jesus Christ, as the Holy Spirit lives through you. So to him or anybody else, I would say that's the key to knowing one way or the other. So anyway, that's our message today from Unashamed. So we'll see you next time. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, and don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode. So.