Ep 1206 | The Robertsons Get Snubbed by a Rock & Roll Icon & the True Meaning of a Crown of Thorns

Summary

Unashamed with the Robertson Family – Episode 1206

Overview

In this episode of Unashamed, the Robertson family—Al, Jason (Jase), Zach, and occasional contributions from Lisa—share heartfelt stories about family, faith, and memorable encounters, all flowing into an in-depth conversation about the trial and crucifixion of Jesus as recounted in John 19. The episode oscillates between family anecdotes (including a rock-and-roll brush-off from Pat Benatar), warm reflections on Christian community, generational legacy, and a deep, nuanced Bible study. The centerpiece: the true meaning and symbolism behind the crown of thorns placed on Jesus.

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Family Updates & Fun Stories

Cold Weather & Idaho Adventures

• [00:06–03:50]
  • Al recounts visiting a longstanding Christian school in rural Idaho (est. 1908), where a fundraiser was held involving auctioning off a duck call and a dinner with Al and Lisa.
  • Jase reminisces about duck hunting on the Snake River with Phil.

Max’s Engagement and Musical Dreams

• [04:01–08:38]
  • Zach shares the story of his oldest son Max’s engagement to Annabelle: a surprise proposal during a house concert by Max’s band (Dasher the Band).
  • The proposal was orchestrated as part of a Kickstarter ‘house show’ reward, culminating in a public, emotional moment that brought tears to family and friends.
  • “Well, when she gets up there, he sings the rest of the song and then he does the proposal.” – Zach [07:53]
  • “Mama was crying. I even teared up myself.” – Zach [08:42]

Family, LSU, and Shirt Sponsors

• [09:09–11:16]
  • Al jokes about favoring Max because he’s a diehard LSU fan, unlike the rest of the mixed-college-loyalty family.
  • Discussion of the origin of Dasher the Band’s name and their musical connections (e.g., being produced with help from Brown Bannister, Amy Grant’s producer).

Celebrity Encounters: The Pat Benatar Snub

• [24:25–28:53]
  • Al recounts a memorable incident at the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade where Pat Benatar reportedly “was not happy because she’s having to share the bus with the Duck Dynasty people.”
  • “She was not a fan.” – Al [26:58]
  • The family riffs on the mishap with playful banter about Pat Benatar, Joan Jett, and classic rock mixes.
  • “Rejected by Pat Benatar.” — Zach [26:59]
  • “I would have played ‘Love Is a Battlefield’ because this is it.” – Jason [27:17]

Priorities: Duck Season Over Everything

• [29:03–30:20]
  • Jase tells of declining an invitation to play golf at Augusta National with Bubba Watson because it conflicted with opening day of duck season.
  • “If you turn this down, I’m never asking you again.” – Al paraphrasing Bubba Watson [29:54]

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Faith, Family, and Generational Legacy

Raising Godly Offspring

• [20:23–24:25]
  • Zach reflects on thankfulness that his children are choosing spouses who love and proclaim Jesus.
  • “I am thankful that they're choosing people that love Jesus.” – Zach [21:22]
  • The conversation underscores the difficulty and value of marriage, with references to counseling couples, generational patterns, and working through hardship.
  • “It's better to be together always and work through whatever it is and deal with whatever it is.” – Al [23:07]

Pop Culture and Faith: Love is a Battlefield

• [24:25–25:53]
  • Jase jokes that “Pat Benatar summed it up, love is a battlefield”—a sentiment Al admits he didn’t understand until he was well into marriage himself.
  • They tie the song’s message into the biblical definition of love in 1 Corinthians 13.

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Deep Dive: The True Meaning of the Crown of Thorns

Setting the Stage: John 19 and Its Impact

• [30:28–33:19]
  • Al transitions the discussion to scripture, setting up John 19 (“we’ve made it to John 19 finally”), with Jase noting the stark reactions people have to the Gospel story, whether new believers or jaded veterans of church.
  • “The thrill of the simple story of Jesus is gone... But this passage tells the story, connecting all the dots from what was prophesied—the Kingdom, the King, and the forces of evil he came to disarm.” – Jase [32:10]

The Embarrassment of the Cross

• [33:19–36:41]
  • The family discusses how, on first reading, the humiliation of Jesus—creator of the universe—can seem “embarrassing” and even shocking.
  • They read 1 Corinthians 2:6–8 to emphasize that “none of the rulers of this age understood; for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.”

The Humanity and Divinity of Christ

• [38:08–45:16]
  • Conversation on Christ's dual nature: fully God, fully man. They unpack challenging doctrines and misunderstandings—why Jesus had to be human, what it means he faced temptation (Hebrews 4:15), and why he had to die a criminal’s death.
  • “Why tempt him if he could not have sinned? He just chose not to. He fulfilled the law, became the faithful Israelite to redeem Israel and thus the whole world.” – Jase [41:29]
  • “He doesn’t empty himself of his divinity... In his incarnated state, there were limitations on Christ.” – Zach [43:49]

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Scripture Focus: The Trial, Crown of Thorns, and Crucifixion

John 19:1–16 – The Crown and the Mocking

• [46:16–50:42]
  • Al reads the passage describing Jesus being flogged, dressed in a purple robe and a crown of thorns, and beheld by Pilate with the words, “Here is the man.”
  • The Jewish leaders insist “he must die because he claimed to be the Son of God,” to which Pilate is visibly troubled.
  • The chief priests proclaim, “We have no king but Caesar,” which the hosts highlight as a moment of profound blasphemy and irony.

Symbolism of the Crown of Thorns

• [50:42–56:08]
  • Jase notes the thorns’ first appearance after Adam’s sin (Genesis), tying the crown on Jesus to the curse and new creation.
  • “Because he wore the thorns, we get to wear his likeness. And trying to wrap your head around that is very exciting.” – Jase [56:10]
  • Jase shares his excitement about the original Greek word for “wear”—found in both John 19 and 1 Corinthians 15:49—revealing a link between bearing the earthly image (in suffering) and someday bearing the heavenly one (in glory).
  • “Just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.” – (Referencing 1 Cor. 15:49) [55:48]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On generational legacy:
  “Five generations have gone to that [Christian] school. That’s impressive.” – Al [01:41]
• On the proposal:
  “He sang the rest of the song and then he does the proposal.” – Zach [07:53]
• On encountering Pat Benatar:
  “She was not a fan.” – Al [26:58] “Rejected by Pat Benatar.” – Zach [26:59]
• On marriage and love:
  “Love is a battlefield.” – Jase quoting Pat Benatar [24:25]
• On the Cross:
  “If this was the creator of the universe in human form, how embarrassing for what happens to him.” – Jase [33:20]
• On the crown of thorns/new creation:
  “Because he wore the thorns, we get to wear his likeness.” – Jase [56:10]

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Key Bible Segments and Timestamps

• Max’s engagement & Dasher the Band backstory: [04:01–08:38], [13:23–14:23]
• Rock & roll snub (Pat Benatar): [24:25–28:53]
• Bible study intro—John 19: [30:28–39:04]
• Christ’s dual nature explained: [38:08–45:16]
• John 19:1–16 read and discussed: [46:16–50:42]
• Deep dive into the symbolism of the crown of thorns: [50:42–56:08]

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Episode Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is warm, witty, and deeply rooted in biblical reflection. The Robertsons bring classic small-town humor to celebrity encounters but quickly pivot to raw, honest discussions about faith, family, and the meaning of Jesus's suffering. At the heart of the episode is a call to cherish the “simple story” of Christ’s sacrifice, rejecting both cynicism and theological over-complication, and embracing the living hope that flows from the humiliation—and ultimate triumph—of the cross.

Assignments for Listeners:

• Read 1 Corinthians 15 in preparation for next episode’s deep dive.

Memorable Moment to End: “Because he wore the thorns, we get to wear his likeness. And trying to wrap your head around that is very exciting.” – Jase [56:10]

Transcript

[Jason]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Al]

So welcome back to Unashamed. We're settling in here. We're sans Maddie. She went on a cruise this week with her husband. She's all she earned. She earned a week off, which is great sometimes. This is no country for Old men. On this podcast, I understand why people have to get away. Right?

[Jason]

Which is true. You know, it's actually unseasonably cool here.

[Al]

It is.

[Jason]

You agree?

[Al]

I would agree. In fact, it was. It was funny because when I got in last night, we. We've been in Idaho. Oh, wow. And. And it was actually colder here than it was there, which is unusual.

[Jason]

Well, did you see our. Our friends that were on the.

[Al]

No, because they're quite a bit north of where we were. But I did tell to ask some people about that part of Idaho because, you know, they're almost in Canada. We were down in Boise, which is the southern part of the state.

[Jason]

Did they use the word remote?

[Al]

They did. They, they. They were like. When I told them the story, they're like, well, first we get it. We understand why. Why they escaped. But then at the same time, they said they escaped to a remote area. But the people that I met were amazing. It was. Listen to this, Zach. It was a Christian school. They call it classical Christian. And it's kind of in the. The Hillsdale line of thinking because, you know, Hillsdale is a college. Doesn't take any money from the government. That's why this little Christian school is. And it's not super big because it's kind of out in the rural area. But they've been around since. Guess. Guess when. 1908.

[Jason]

I thought you.

[Zach]

That's a long time.

[Jason]

243.

[Al]

No, 1908. 115 years this school's been there. And there was some people there, five, Part of a five generation family that went to this Christian school. I mean, that's. Think about how impressive that is that you're around that long. So we raised some money for them. They had an auctioneer there, and the auctioneer looked exactly like the guy, the Mr. Wonderful from Shark Tank, you know, I'm talking about the guy wears the black suit. He looked just like him. I mean, when I got up there. So they called me up, you know, because I took a duck call that they auctioned off. And they also. Also auctioned off a little dinner with Al and Lisa down here. And so they raised some money off even us being. Yeah, you get in these auction deals and they pull you in. I didn't know about it until I got there. And they were like, what would you think about this? And I was like, it could be. It could be three frog hunts, Jay. So I felt a little better.

[Jason]

No, I. I proceed with caution because.

[Al]

You look, but you get it. You know how it is. You get in the room and it gets exciting, and you kind of. You kind of get into it. But they were great. They raised a lot of money for this school and just salt to the earth. I've been to the west coast now, I think three times in the last couple of months, and I have thoroughly enjoyed the people. They are amazing. So it was really good trip, but it was cold when I got back.

[Jason]

I have fond memories of Idaho because we. Phil and I went on numerous duck hunts on the Snake river. And it's just absolutely stunning. And they're just ducks. They just light in the river.

[Al]

So I thought about you because we were walking down. There's a little river that's there there in. In Boise. I can't remember the name of it. It wasn't Snake river because it was small. But I saw probably. We took some pictures. I saw probably 40 or 50 mallards, you know, and they were just chuckling around. They're feeding, you know, and. Yeah, I guess they're. Because it's right there, pretty near town. They were wild ducks, but they just, I guess, weren't afraid.

[Jason]

Well, exactly.

[Al]

And then there was a bunch of Canadian geese, but I guess they don't even migrate, right? Mean they just stay up.

[Jason]

Well, yeah, I mean, that's. They're getting to a point where they quit migrating.

[Al]

That's all. A lot of them.

[Jason]

But domestication process is underway with Canadian geese, which is unfortunate.

[Al]

Yeah, it is.

[Jason]

You got to keep them wild. But that's a story for a different day.

[Al]

So, Zach, you had. I noticed from Lisa was showing me on Facebook or something, you had an interesting weekend, huh?

[Zach]

Yeah, we got. Max got engaged, my oldest son. So we had a big.

[Jason]

He did.

[Zach]

He's got him a woman that he's going to marry Annabelle.

[Jason]

Is he over 18 years of age?

[Al]

He's 20.

[Zach]

He is 20 now.

[Jason]

He does have a boyish look about him.

[Al]

Well, he's got him a little mustache now, so that. That helps him a little bit. But yeah.

[Zach]

Yeah, we did that. So they came in ironically, he brought in his band. Him and Layla are in a band called Dasher, the band, which they're doing in Nashville, and they're making a run at it.

[Jason]

And is it Dasher or Dasher the band?

[Zach]

Dasher the Band. That's the.

[Al]

Is there a comma or is it just.

[Zach]

Just a pause dash or. The band.

[Al]

Okay, it's just a pregnant.

[Jason]

See, I would have probably picked another one of the reindeer just to be. Kind of picked the rest.

[Zach]

Not while they. Yeah, they didn't pick it because of the reindeer. That picked it because that's their last name. But.

[Jason]

Yeah, but my immediate thought went.

[Al]

I think Prancer. Prancer of the van would be.

[Jason]

No, I just called.

[Al]

You go with.

[Jason]

I'd have said the Rudolphs.

[Zach]

And they're like, the Rudolph.

[Jason]

What is the story behind it? And they said, well, our last name's Dasher, but we didn't want to be too much on the nose, so we.

[Al]

Went with the Rudolph on the nose. There you go. That's pretty good.

[Zach]

Well, they're interesting.

[Jason]

They.

[Zach]

They got a little band from. MIA was here, too, by the way, but they got a. They got a little band that. They're doing it. They're actually recording their first album with Lipscomb, the school they're at as like, they're. They have a Incubator label there that's working with them. So Max brings in the band, which. The fiddle player is amazing. And she's from Idaho, so. She's from South Idaho. So we had the same conversation because her and her sister came in and they've got some land in South Idaho. And I think. I think she said the Snake river goes right through their property. Oh, she mentioned that, Jason.

[Jason]

So I see a connection forming here.

[Zach]

I was thinking the same thing.

[Jason]

How far did the place go back?

[Al]

You said 1908.

[Jason]

1908. But if you can find a place that went back pre1900 and had the snake River.

[Al]

Oh, yeah. Because then you got a treasure hunt and.

[Jason]

Yeah, treasure hunt and a duck hunt.

[Al]

But we're a lot of duck hunters.

[Jason]

Let's talk later. That.

[Al]

Let's.

[Jason]

I'm.

[Zach]

I'll find out what I.

[Jason]

This is not the person he's marrying. This is the fiddle player.

[Zach]

Now, this is some. This is the fiddle player. And so what. The way he set it up was they did this Kickstarter, and they're working with Brown Banister, who did Amy. All of Amy Grant's albums. His daughter is Ellie Holcomb. Drew and Ellie Holcomb, if you listen to the Holcombs. So they got a really. A really good guy that's kind of helping them out. So first thing you gotta do, you're gonna do a Kickstarter campaign. You're gonna raise money to do your first album, which they did, it was successful. And so one of the things they do when you do Kickstarter is you have to give away things. And one of the things they gave away for if you gave a certain amount of money was a house show. So our friends gave some money to say. So Annabelle thinks it's a house show. So Max comes in with the band. We had all of like, our family and friends were all there. The church was there, a lot of people from our church. And then her family was there. And then. So he's up there just. They're doing the thing. And then about the fourth song, he sang a song, something about a. And then he stopped before the last verse and said something about high school sweethearts. And he read somewhere that high school sweethearts have the best success rates. And he said, my high school sweetheart is here, right over there. And points to Annabelle and then asks her to come on stage. He said, I'm going to sing this last verse for you. I dedicate this one to you. Well, when she gets up there, he sings the rest of the song and then he does the. The proposal.

[Jason]

Oh, I thought he was going to sing will you marry me.

[Al]

I was wondering, did he sing it or did he ask it?

[Zach]

He asked. He got down on his knee and asked it. And. And what was her reaction?

[Al]

Was she truly was.

[Zach]

I don't. You know.

[Jason]

You don't know.

[Zach]

I mean, these days. I mean, how do you not know?

[Al]

Yeah. Produced now and stage. But it sounds like he did a pretty good like subject.

[Zach]

I think she didn't know because I think she said. Told us later. She said, I've been like for the last time, two months. I've been thinking every time we get together, this is going to be the time she just comes prepared every single time. And this was the time when it all. When it actually happened.

[Jason]

And it.

[Zach]

It was. It was so, so beautiful though. And. And they. They're going to make a wonderful couple.

[Al]

We're tears. We're tears sheds act. We're tears shed. Among the women.

[Zach]

Tears were shed. Mama was crying. I even teared up myself.

[Al]

You're a soft. As you get older, the lower T. Yeah. More crying.

[Jason]

Well, here's the question now. That's all great. We're all warm and fluffy. Who's doing the wedding?

[Zach]

In terms of the. Who's going to preach it?

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

Well, I don't know. Is there something.

[Zach]

That'S a good question. I don't know if they'll ask me or not. I'd rather not do it, but.

[Al]

Well, I have to say, Zach, I love all your kids. They're amazing. Your children are amazing. I love each and every one for different reasons, but Max is my favorite because he's the only LSU fan out of the crew. Yeah, he got it. You know, he got it his time in Louisiana, so he's. I have to. And the rest of them know it.

[Jason]

I send him LSU feel for them because they're. They're like that song that I've been everywhere, you know, so they are different fans because their life has been a road trip.

[Zach]

He got corrupted. He got corrupted. Al, bro. Al bought him. He bought him a LSU shirt.

[Jason]

And.

[Zach]

And by the way, the shirts were wearing poncho. They're a sponsor now, which. I love these shirts, but, you know, they have one poncho makes a LSU shirt.

[Al]

I know. That's what. That's why one of the things that really impressed me about the company.

[Jason]

Why didn't you get us those?

[Al]

They sent me a Johnny Cash one because I decided that I've been everywhere, so I'm going all black today.

[Jason]

Johnny Cash. Look, dude.

[Zach]

But they got.

[Al]

But.

[Zach]

But that's what.

[Al]

Very comfortable to Zach, by the way. This is my first one to wear.

[Zach]

I've actually been wearing these for a long time. So I love these shirts. I wore them before they were sponsored. So when they reached out and said, you know, they sponsor Willie, too, and they said. And they wanted to sponsor the podcast, I was like, yeah, I'd love to get some. Some of these shirts. But. But you. What you've done is you corrupted him at an early age by giving him merch. That's what you did.

[Al]

Well, it wasn't corruption. It was simply appreciation. I just thought since I knew his family was going to slide him. Because they're this whole mixed group of. I mean, they got everybody in the Florida, Alabama. They're all mixed up. But I knew this one child, this savant, was going to need some nourishment from outside the immediate family. And I thought, I'll be that guy.

[Jason]

That would have been a better name for the band. They should have just named themselves SEC and just have representatives of all the state schools. That's what you're requiring.

[Al]

That is their family. Because they. They're all over the place.

[Jason]

It's like band slash choir.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

Because they're wonderful singers.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

I mean. Yeah. Which in these days, you don't have to necessarily be able to sing to be successful.

[Al]

Oh, yeah. With the old auto tuner.

[Jason]

Multiple examples of that, including One at this table, especially in the country.

[Zach]

But they can sing. I'll give them exactly.

[Al]

Now they can sing.

[Zach]

All right. So one of the things that really bugs me about T shirts is how they get stretched out after you wear them a couple times. They get all out of form and whatnot. But I am super proud to wear the True Classic tee. Al, you've got one on right now.

[Al]

I am representing today, Zach, with my True Classic shirt. It's long sleeve because it's cool weather, but it fits me perfectly.

[Zach]

And Jason, you got a couple pair of jeans from the True Classic apparel that I think you rotate in just about every other day. So that's kind of been your repertoire now, right?

[Jason]

Yeah, it's only one. I just wear them a lot.

[Al]

But they are awesome.

[Jason]

They are comfortable and they look like jeans, but they're actually way better.

[Zach]

Yeah, no, they don't feel like jeans. They're super comfortable. Well, True Classic, they make premium comfortable shirts that don't cost a fortune. And clearly people agree because over 25 million shirts have been sold to more than 5 million customers. We're three of those customers right here. And they have over 230,000 five star reviews. True Classic is all about fit, feel, and confidence. And the reason why is because they're tailored where you want them, relax where you need it, and effortless style that works in real life. That's what makes True Classic the go to gift and especially this time of year. And now everybody in the family can get in on on the perfect fit and the comfort because they have new women's and kids collections available as well. So skip the guesswork and the overpriced designer stuff. Give comfort, give confidence. Give True Classic. You can find them on Amazon, Target, Costco, Sam's Club, or you can just head on over to truclassic.comrobertson to grab the perfect gift for everyone on your list. That's trueclassic.com Robertson.

[Jason]

They can see. It's like what you said about, you know, I looked up Reed, you know, is doing worship with. Wasn't that with Max at your church?

[Zach]

Yeah, that was Grant, my brother.

[Jason]

Huh?

[Al]

That was a Grant.

[Zach]

That was my brother.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

With Grant. Yeah. And you were like, Well, I was surprised. I'm like, look, that dude wakes up singing and you're like, wow. I mean, some people just got it.

[Al]

Well, somebody told me they were watching the Dove Awards and saw Reed in the audience. Do you know. Do you know if he was there? Do you know anything?

[Jason]

He was there. Okay.

[Al]

Yeah, they saw him they saw him on the broadcast, and I said, well, maybe he was doing something. I didn't know.

[Zach]

Yeah, he was there. He told me he was sitting right in the mix of all the. All the people. He was.

[Al]

That's probably why he got on camera, because they kept showing the. The ones.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Al]

You know, nominees and stuff.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Zach]

I was looking it up. So they do have a little YouTube channel called Dasher, but they got some of their songs on there. You can check them out on. On there. But they're. I think they're gonna. I mean, they're doing. They need to get read in there with them because Reed has one of the best tenor harmonies.

[Jason]

I'll agree with this.

[Zach]

I mean, he. That dude can flat out say. And y'. All. And reads a platinum artist. Because y' all had a. Y'.

[Al]

All.

[Zach]

I guess you are, too, Jace. You're a player.

[Al]

Don't. Don't downgrade me. And my backup on those, you know. Were you there on it? Well, I was on.

[Jason]

We sang a couple of Christmas songs where we. Where we had. No, the whole thing was Christmas. But I'm saying we. We sang.

[Al]

I'm saying old traditional songs is what. A couple of those is what I participated in. Yeah.

[Jason]

That's what I'm saying. We. We. It was like a choir.

[Al]

Joy to the world. Yeah. Yeah.

[Jason]

But I was there.

[Al]

They had me low, but I was there.

[Jason]

Don't guess it, Zach. It's on the wall.

[Al]

I got.

[Jason]

They. When you go platinum, baby, they send you a little plaque thing. I'll take a picture. I'll tell you what. When I get home, I'll take a picture of it, and you can put it up, because Missy put it on the wall. I wouldn't have done that, but. Because when people say you have a platinum album, I just point at Missy and say, no, she does. I was just along for the ride.

[Zach]

That I will say this. Y' all had. I don't know what happened to that thing. We need to resurrect it, because that was a really, really good Christmas album.

[Al]

It's.

[Jason]

I know what happened, and I'm not going to discuss it here, but after a certain amount of time, you have to like to redo it.

[Al]

You have to add new stuff.

[Jason]

You have to add a couple new songs.

[Al]

And maybe we could get Prancer to the band or Dash of the band to add some new songs.

[Jason]

No, I call Willie and said, hey, buddy. Because we're partners in that venture.

[Al]

I knew that.

[Jason]

And so he said, I'll get back to you. On that. I think that was two years ago.

[Zach]

But, I mean, I'm telling you, it was like, really good.

[Jason]

It was.

[Zach]

I mean, we listened. We still listen to it because I guess Joe bought it somehow. I don't know how you get it, but, Zach, you can.

[Jason]

Pretty well, with a couple of clicks, you can be playing the Christmas album.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

Right now.

[Al]

And it was called. So was it called Doug Commander Christmas?

[Zach]

I thought it was called Dr. Halls.

[Jason]

I have a platinum album, and I can't even remember.

[Al]

I couldn't. I couldn't remember what it was. Speaking of Willie. So I ran. Lisa ran into him, he and Corey last night in the airport in Dallas. We were heading in from Idaho. They were coming from San Diego. And they had one of those stories where they were lake. Which is now very prevalent. I don't this. By the time this airs, hopefully the government will be working again. But with this shutdown, it's affecting your times on the airplane because they'll just. You just pull over, like on the Runway and wait an hour and a half because there can only be so many planes out of these hub cities.

[Jason]

Or you're like me, you hit a duck.

[Al]

Or you hit a duck. And so Willie. Same thing happened to him coming out of San Diego. And so he did the. He said he didn't run. What he called it. He called it a raw. A run jog to get to the gate. And it was literally as he's walking up, the door closed. Yeah, like, literally. And then he said he's, like, panting, you know. And then Corey said he was really breathing hard. And she said he was like, I'm here. And she said, I just closed the flight. Like, oh, no. And he said, this guy steps over and he's like, oh, I'll take care of y'. All. Because then Willie thought, oh, he's going to reopen the door.

[Jason]

And.

[Al]

And he books them on the late flight, which is the one we were on.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Al]

So we went up. The good thing was we had about an hour visit. And then Bella and Jacob, they come strolling up. They're coming from South Carolina. So it kind of was like yalls little thing in Atlanta a few weeks ago. We just kind of.

[Jason]

There was two dozen of us that day.

[Al]

Yeah. There were six of us last night.

[Jason]

Yeah. So that's crazy. I quit running because I had the same.

[Al]

I don't run anymore. I'm just like, you know what? Whatever.

[Jason]

Well, I had the same encounter. I ran. The door was open, and when I came up, she was like, fixing to Close it. She's like, no, it's too late. I was like, but the door's open.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

And she said, no. So I thought, well, okay. I said, that's. That settles that. She's like, settles what? I was like, I'll never run again because technically, for the record, I made it. And then now you won't let me on because you'll have to do a couple of clicks, get me back seated. So that's it. No running.

[Al]

Well, that's why I was saying. I was saying that at. At my event this weekend. I was like, it's by God's grace. We're here because air travel is bad enough at every level. Because trust me, I just been on a run across the country, and now you throw in this government issue that then affects things. You can't. The air traffic controls and all that. It was like, can we think of more ways to make air travel more miserable? Oh, yeah, we got hold my beer and watch this, because there's one more we can do. And then we get into this. It's just.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Al]

I don't know.

[Jason]

The model of the story is if you see me running through the airport, you need to observe chasing you. Yeah. You need to trip the guy chasing me, because I haven't deemed that he's fixed to kill me. So there you go.

[Al]

Well, that's exciting, Zach. I'm glad. Be sure and give our congratulations to Max. I'll send him a text today.

[Jason]

So every time you see him, I got. Well, I was gonna say, every time you see them now you can use my line, love is in the air.

[Zach]

Well, you know what's funny about it, though? I mean, I will say that the world's kind of collide. I said this in previous podcast when I was at Cole's wedding in Alabama, and I was just looking at how well Yalls kids have turned out, and they. And this weekend, Mia came in and stayed as well. Jason. She was there at the house. We had so many people at the house. It was like just. It was like Grand Central Station.

[Jason]

But I did not know Mia stayed with you.

[Al]

Last week. Reed stayed with him because he popped up on the podcast.

[Jason]

Yeah, I feel like Zach's like, secretly trying to hire my family for something.

[Zach]

I would. Well, I'll tell you who I would partner with. One of my daughters if Reed wants to do anything with me. Like, I have Reed up here on. That's a sharp guy, man. Man, he's super sharp. But I was sitting there and when I was watching Max, you know, Propose. And I was just, I was thankful, I was so thankful that they, Max and Layla, both my two oldest, the type of people that they chose to spend their. And Max is choosing to spend the rest of his life with are people who are unabashedly just proclaiming the kingship of Jesus. And I think that you have two married off as well, Jason. And that to me is when you, that's what you pray for more than any other thing. You pray for the ones they're going to marry. So it was kind of a moment where you're like, you can take a little sigh of relief, a little breather, you still worry about stuff. But I mean, I am thankful that they're choosing people that love Jesus.

[Al]

J. Can you hear it? Sleigh bells ring Are you listening? Oh, Christmas time Christmas time is coming Are you listening for the bells we're singing because it's Christmas. We're always looking for gifts. And so today we want to talk about Brave Books. Can you think of a better gift to give people than Brave Books?

[Jason]

This truly is the gift that keeps on giving.

[Al]

It is. And your lovely wife Missy is one of the authors. You've got her book there in your hands.

[Jason]

And look, I'm saying this, this is fantastic to read to kids. It's the gospel story in a little bitty book.

[Al]

So look, these books are about helping parents raise strong families. They teach biblical values through powerful faith filled stories where kids can grab it. Each month, Brave sends out a new book that teaches lessons like courage, forgiveness, standing firm in your faith. Missy has a book. Jep and Jessica have a book as well. So when you subscribe, you'll not only get a new book each month plus Missy and Jep and Jessica's book for free. So that's awesome. We got a great deal going right now. And as a bonus, you'll also get access to Brave plus, which is their new streaming platform packed with safe, uplifting shows like Iggy and Mr. Kirk with our good friend Kirk Cameron. So we love these guys. We love what they're doing. We want you to check them out. Great gifts for Christmas this year. Visit bravebooks.com unashamed to get this exclusive offer. Use the code unashamed for 20% off your order. That's bravebooks.com unashamed. Raise them with truth. Raise them Brave. And we talked about this a few episodes ago when we were talking about Cole's wedding, about that idea of marriage. And it is difficult. It is hard. I mean, it's a hard thing. We, we say That a lot on here. But there is a mindset and a standard, I think that you try to do generationally, to say it's better to be together always and work through whatever it is and deal with whatever it is. And so that you. You mentioned that stat about high school sweethearts. And there is something about growing in a marriage together that's powerful. And whether you start that in, you know, super early in life or later in life, it doesn't matter. The starting point. It's like your. Your Christian walk. It doesn't matter where you start. The idea is you got a mindset going in. And so I think in. Lisa and I have counseled many couples. We've gone through many difficult things, affairs, infidelity, many hard things. But you link back sometimes, most times to kind of how they were raised. And when you come out of broken homes, it's just becomes easier to walk away. But when you set the standard that we're going to do this together as a family, I just think it's better. And, you know, our family track record has been great for that. And it doesn't mean you haven't struggled. I mean, Lisa and I, tantamount. So we get it.

[Jason]

Pat Benatar, I think, summed it up, love is a battlefield.

[Al]

But you got great feeling. We had Tom Petty a couple of weeks ago. Now we got Pat Benatar. For some reason, these songs are popping.

[Jason]

In my head, but, you know, look, when I first heard that song, I thought, what is she talking about?

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

Oh, boy. After about five years of marriage, I thought, okay, Pat, I get it. Love is a battlefield. But when you actually read the definition of love, First Corinthians 13. Oh, it is a battlefield. Because none of those things can anyone do perfectly.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

So thus the battle.

[Al]

Well, Jazz, you don't know this story since you brought up Pat Benatar, but you were supposed to be on the Macy's Parade flow and had. I think it was probably duck season, but because it's in January or. No, it's in. It's in Thanksgiving. Yeah, Thanksgiving. And so I took your place.

[Jason]

No, I remember this coming up. Al. Yeah, I did know. My wife come in there like, hey, you know, Macy's Parade.

[Al]

And you said, no.

[Jason]

Well, I just said, I don't do parades, was my first response. Then she said, I think I said, unless it's some kind of parade for Jesus. She's like, well, it's not that. I said, well, no, I'm out. And she's like, no, no. This opportunity, you know, all this. And then I said, when is it? And I was like, it's during duck season.

[Al]

It's Thanksgiving day.

[Jason]

Like, love is a battlefield. Because I said, no, I'll be attending that.

[Al]

So I took your. Took your spot. And I was excited to get to do it because Lisa and I watch it every so often, but we get on. So they have the super cold, like, 10 degrees Thanksgiving Day in New York, and they put all the. The quote unquote celebrities in these buses so you can stay warm until it's time to get on the float. Because, I mean, it's fixing to be cold.

[Jason]

This sounds like fun.

[Al]

Oh, it was not fun. But it. But it. But it was exciting. And we get on the bus. Of course you're sharing it. You know, they have just one bus for a few people. So there was some other people on there where Pat Benatar was on our bus.

[Jason]

Oh, wow. See, I would have had to say, let's just kick it off.

[Al]

But here's what's funny. Jace, you're gonna love this. So she's sitting in the very back, and we're in the very front. And then there was another group kind of in the middle. I don't know who they were. I didn't recognize. They were Broadway or something. And so then we get word that Pat Benatar is not happy because she's having to share the bus with the duck dynasty people. Oh, sh.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Al]

She was not a fan.

[Zach]

Rejected by Pat Benatar.

[Al]

I was like, oh, that hurt me, because I love her music.

[Jason]

Was this during the time of cell phones?

[Al]

It was. Yeah. I guess maybe. Say, I would have had.

[Jason]

When I heard that, I think I would have tried a peace treaty, and.

[Zach]

I would have played that's a heartbreaker.

[Jason]

It was. Because you should have played love is a battlefield because this is it.

[Al]

Well, we love you. We saw her back there, and I thought, would it be bad if we went back to get a picture? And then the person goes up and says, yeah, don't do. Because she's not happy about being on the bus with you.

[Jason]

Oh, that's hilarious.

[Zach]

You tell her it was a heartbreaker.

[Al]

It was. I told her that I love rock. I told her I love rock and roll. Put another dime in the jukebox.

[Zach]

No, I would have told her, hey, that was a Pat, hit me with your best shot.

[Jason]

Not Pat, Ben.

[Al]

That was put another diamond that you box. Of course it was.

[Jason]

Wait a minute.

[Al]

Come on. I love rock and roll.

[Zach]

Put another diamond to jukebox, baby.

[Jason]

She did.

[Zach]

Did she do hit me with your best shot.

[Al]

That's Joan J. Oh, Joan J. Sor.

[Zach]

Say we don't even know who she is. That's what you should have said.

[Al]

I should have said, oh, is that Joan J. Back there? Yeah.

[Zach]

Joan. I'm a big fan.

[Al]

Joan, I love your work. You're so awesome.

[Jason]

Well, I will say.

[Al]

Correct.

[Jason]

I will say this. You. You reminded me of a story, though, because, you know, I'm a golfer.

[Al]

Maybe it was Joan Jed on the button now. I came.

[Jason]

You know I'm a golfer.

[Zach]

We're gonna. If we're gonna. If we're gonna rail her for rejecting you, we need to.

[Al]

Jay says may be unsure about it. Yeah, it was sure. That's the one who I'm sure Pat Benatar rejected. But Joan Jett. I do like her stuff too.

[Jason]

I will. I was gonna send a text to Missy. She'd remember if Pat Benatar was on the back of the bus.

[Al]

Yeah. Because Missy was with us that day.

[Jason]

But I don't have my phone.

[Al]

Okay.

[Jason]

But I was just gonna tell her.

[Al]

If I'm wrong, I'm sorry. Pat, if you're a listener, you said my apology.

[Jason]

You've gone too far with this story. But I once got asked to play at the Masters by Bubba Watson. You know the Masters?

[Al]

Not at the Master. You mean Augusta?

[Jason]

Augusta. Yeah.

[Al]

They wouldn't let you on the. In the Masters because you would be, like, a junior.

[Jason]

I mean, I didn't. I didn't figure most people would know what Augusta Georgia was. So I was gonna say we said.

[Al]

Invited me to the Masters. Well, the course where they must have been playing really good.

[Jason]

The Masters.

[Al]

Yes, Augusta.

[Jason]

And I was like, awesome. I was so excited. I was like, yeah. So he's like, you know, here's the date. Well, he sent the date. I looked on my phone. Is opening day of duck season. Oh, I said immediately. I just sent him a text and said, no, I'm out. He's like, what? I was like, that's opening day of duck season, so appreciate it.

[Al]

But now that's conviction.

[Jason]

Are there. Are there any other dates? And he's like, if you. If you turn this down, I'm never asking you again.

[Al]

Which is so Bubba Watson.

[Jason]

And. And he didn't. So I missed it. You know, I could play, but I'm not missing opening that duck season.

[Al]

Well, Willie has played it.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Al]

Yes.

[Jason]

And when he was more connection.

[Al]

When he was on number two, he said they came out in a golf cart, and he had his bandana on, and they had A hat. And they gave him the hat and he said, oh, thank you. And they were like, sir, there's no bandanas. Head of gusto. In other words, Willie was like, oh, they came all the way out there to give me a hat. It was that, no, wear this, please. So there you go.

[Jason]

I think that's enough nonsense for one day.

[Al]

Playing the role of Phil would be.

[Zach]

Just made it through that. You made it to the Bible study.

[Al]

We're glad you're.

[Jason]

I feel like I needed that because I've studied for two days. I actually looked up.

[Al]

You said you were overstudied after a.

[Jason]

Month and of just going every day somewhere. And the last couple days I went into a cave and studied for a couple days. It was actually kind of nice.

[Al]

So we're in. We've made it to John 19 finally. We've been. We've kind of been, as you guys know from our study, we've kind of been given these high air views, I call them 30,000 foot views of what all this means in terms of Old Testament, it being prophesied about. Because when you get into the weeds of what happened, it's a bleak happening. I mean, this is a rough slog of text just because of the nature of it. I mean just the abuse and everything that goes along with it.

[Jason]

It kind of hit me in that vein that, you know, as much as I study with people, I've noticed it's kind of two opposite ends of people I study with. It's like people who are new to the faith. This is exciting. They just can't get enough. Or on the other end, it's people who have been in different churches for so long, they're just frustrated with kind of the organizational, denominational view of what Christianity has become, you know, in America. And so they get into other things that it's like the thrill of the simple story of Jesus is gone. It's kind of fascinating. I'm not sure why that is, but it just seems like over and over. Because I've had a lot of Bible studies in the last couple weeks, just one right after another. And I think when you get to this section of John, it's not. It's not about theology and doctrine, it just tells the story and we're connecting all the dots from what was prophesied and about the kingdom and this discussion with the king and about rulers, God against the gods or this kind of spiritual forces of evil that. That Jesus was going to disarm. And it's just a. It's a story that, that, that you're, you're just absolutely shocked by that this happened because it, because as you read this, you're like, I mean, we believe it is the creator, the universe in human form, but people who are reading this for the first time, they're like, if this was the created creator of the universe in human form, how embarrassing.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

For what happens to him.

[Al]

Exactly.

[Jason]

I mean, this is just absolutely crazy. But it made me think of. And I want to read this before we read John 19, because Jesus is dealing with these human authorities, people in power from the Jewish side and the Roman side here, but a verse that we bring up often. First Corinthians 2, 7.

[Al]

Wow.

[Zach]

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[Al]

Absolutely, Zach. I mean, for. Since we had a podcast, we've talked about what our veterans mean to us. We've had an own family with our good old, dear old uncle Sigh. And these guys are right in line with what we love.

[Zach]

Well, yeah. In fact, this month they're supporting a nonprofit called Canines for Warriors. It's an incredible organization that rescues and trains dogs. And then they pair these dogs with veterans who are struggling with ptsd. You know, these are men and women who served our country with honor and faithfully, but a lot of times when they come home, they lose that brotherhood, that support network that they had, the military. It just disappears rapidly. So Canines for Warriors steps in to fill that gap, giving these heroes purpose, companionship, and healing. That's exactly why Pure Talk, a veteran led company, supports them. And choosing a wireless company has never been easier. And with talk text and plenty of 5G data for just 25 bucks a month, you could be supporting a worthy cause and savings a ton of money along the way. So go to PureTalk.com Unashamed to make the switch today. I did it. It was super easy. Did it in as little as 10 minutes. Again, go to PureTalk.com Unashamed and switch to America's wireless company, PureTalk 1 Corinthians 2, 7.

[Jason]

And I think you should keep this in mind as we read or verse six. We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature. This is Paul to the Corinthians. But not the wisdom of this age or the rulers of this age who are coming to nothing. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom. A wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. Which is exactly what his prayer referenced a couple of times. Remember when Jesus said, I pray that I'll have the glory return that I have with you before the beginning of creation. But then watch verse 8. None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. And so this is right after Paul was making the point in chapter two and verse two, because he was frustrated that some of the church in Corinth were following other people besides Jesus, which is kind of what I brought up about the denominational fragmentation of Christian church. You kind of see this similar thing. You get frustrated and you go follow somebody else.

[Al]

And the danger there, Jase, is you do what a lot of the Corinthians were doing. So then you just tend to punt the whole situation.

[Jason]

Punt the whole thing.

[Al]

You know, it's just. It ain't worth it.

[Jason]

Absolutely. And so I wanted to read that First Corinthians too, too, because I think this really. It. It helped me in. In all the study I did the last two days, just coming. I just came back to the simple story of here's Jesus who did everything right. And this. This. You have people. Multiple people slapping you in the face, making fun of you, dressing you up as a king, and. And all this, you know, acting like these leaders, acting like he's just a. Just a peasant who's crazy and there have all the power to give you life or give you death. So look at First Corinthians 2. 2. It says, For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. I mean, it's such a statement that he's just going back to the simple story of what happened. Of course, he goes on to say that famous statement about the rulers not understanding because this was ultimately their defeat, as in the spiritual forces of evil having control and power, which was predicted many times. But I wanted to say that before we read, because you don't want to be distracted by. Just because we're given the big picture of the simple story of how this happened.

[Al]

Yeah. And I think it's the same thing. You could make the same case for him being born as a baby and then going through as a toddler and a young boy and then a teenager, and all the way through his life. There was a purpose in that as well. He had to be fully human. So he lived a human life to be like his brothers in every way. Well, in this case, now he's about to die, but he's going to die a criminal's death, because that's what this. These were. This was reserved for criminals. Insurgents, you know, insurrectionists.

[Jason]

Yeah. And there were laws about this, and they were being violated, especially from the Jewish perspective. They were applying the law, but then they were violating it. Even just having this thing happen at night and all this. There were little verses in the Torah that negated some of their actions.

[Al]

I think when I was researching that, Jason, they broke 18 of their own laws of the Sanhedrin, and just in how they process this night before this is happening. So, I mean, yeah, they were failing.

[Jason]

All over the place, which shows you there was a whole different agenda. And it was about power. He was a threat because people followed him and they wanted to take him out. I mean, this is Mafia hit, but it's done from religious leaders. I mean, it is literally the first, you know, Godfather movie is basically what's happening. And what's crazy is this guy's not only innocent of the crimes, he's innocent of any crime. Yeah, there's no crime committed. Which has always used this point in arguments, just with people who kind of have a system of law where they're not realizing that Jesus redeemed us from the law. Not. Not just from sin, but from the law itself. Having to have some kind of code that you have to perform and work your way to God and always use that. That no one has ever kept the law. No adult has kept the law flawlessly. And so you get into verses like James 2:10, where it's such an obscure verse, but it says, whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at one point is guilty of breaking all of it. And you're like, what does that mean? That means you cannot base your salvation on keeping the law. That won't work. That's why Jesus came, you know, and you can get into why that is, but just making the point. So then I think what happens is people come up with their own doctrines about this, and they're like, well, Jesus never sinned because he was God. Like, somebody will come up with some kind of doctrine saying, well, you know, Jesus maybe didn't become fully human, or vice versa. They're not realizing that. And they'll make points like, well, the only reason he never sinned because he was God, but he became a human. You have verses like Hebrews 4. He was tempted in every way, just as we are, yet was without sin. Why is that in the Bible?

[Al]

Right.

[Jason]

Why tempt him if he could not have sinned, he just chose not to. He fulfilled the law, became the faithful Israelite to redeem Israel and thus the whole world.

[Al]

Well, it's the same thing that came up about. Well, because when he resurrected, it was like, well, he didn't really die. I mean, just same thing, passed out, you know, and then he woke up and then all of a sudden he comes out. Which the interesting thing about that is, and we'll get to that when we get to the resurrection part of this text is that John was there for all of it. Remember, John was at the foot of the cross with Mary.

[Jason]

Well, there's debate on that too. It's like, well, why would they let. Because all women in John. Well, we assume if it's the disciple Jesus, love is John, which it never exactly says that, but we assume it's John. So they, they, the scholars believe that it's because John was young.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

And I tend to agree because he was not a threat, you know, plus.

[Al]

He'S a younger brother. His younger, his older brother was the other fisherman.

[Jason]

So we're going to get to that because when John gets to the resurrection, he's like, hey, I was there, I saw it.

[Al]

That's what I'm saying. I think he witnessed the death and then he witnessed the resurrection for a reason. So it's the same.

[Zach]

It is hard to, to put your mind around it because we want to err on one of the two sides of either Christ wasn't fully God or Christ wasn't fully man. And I think that's what we do wrestle with that. That is a hard thing to understand. But the biblical teaching is that Christ was the fullness of deity, was pleased to dwell in bodily form. That's Paul's argument. Like, like the fullness of God was in the body of Jesus, but the body of Jesus was fully human. And so like that Philippians 2 passage says it too, that he was in very nature God, but he didn't consider equality with God something to be grasped and emptied himself doesn't mean he emptied himself of his divinity. He doesn't empty himself of his divinity. I think the language that Paul uses in Philippians 2 is helpful. It just says he takes all on the nature of humanity. He takes on the nature of.

[Jason]

Which means he became a human.

[Al]

That's right. Yeah.

[Zach]

Yeah, he takes it on. He doesn't get rid of one, he just takes on the other. Which is the, that's the, that's the word is like when you're condescending, you Know that the old joke is I'm being condescending. That means I'm talking down to you, you know, like. But it just means you're coming down to that, to someone else's level. So God condescends in the Son, but in his divinity, he's still fully God. It's just in his incarnated state, in his fleshly state, there was limitations on Christ. And he says this, he says, I don't even know. Only the Father knows when these things are going to take place. So showing his limitation in his flesh, on omniscience, he was limited in his omnipresence in the flesh, meaning that Christ in body couldn't be in a lot of different places at the same time. He could only be in one place at one time. So I think that you're. And then ultimately you're seeing though what he's doing here. The reason why this matters is because of the moment we're at in John 19. I mean, he's going to become the lamb. He's going to become the Passover lamb. He's going to be slaughtered. He's going to let people not just get their hands on him, he's going to submit himself and become obedient to death on a cross, which will be the vindication or the payment for our sin, which will then be vindicated through the resurrection.

[Al]

So Jay's dad was one of his famous sayings was, boys, I'm a low tech man in a high tech world.

[Jason]

Yeah, I mean, when he used to order duck stamps, he had to go back to post office days. And I don't, I mean, drive there and buy.

[Al]

And wait in line to get the duck stamp. Exactly. And so now, of course, you can buy your duck stamp online. As Jase mentioned, you don't have to go stand in line at the post office anymore. You can actually do it in less than two minutes. Drops right into your Apple or Google wallet. And it even works when you're offline. Having it digital means you don't have to stress about losing that paper version in your glove box, in your waiters, in your washing machine. It's always right there with you with your phone. So don't wait until you're halfway to the blind to remember this. Go ahead and take care of it [e-mail] and remember, these guys are all about conservation as well. So when you're spending money there, you're also continuing God's creation for future generations.

[Jason]

And not only conservation, but you're helping.

[Al]

Keeping the wilderness Wild, so digital and physical. They've got [e-mail] unashamed. It's so easy and it makes a big difference. That's duckstamp.com go there. Get yours today. Let me read it this text in our last section of the podcast and then we're going to get into it deeper on the next podcast. Because in verse 5, and I've already mentioned this before, NT Wright made a big deal out of verse 5. When Pilate says in proclamation, here is the man, you know, as he's standing there, and they've dressed him in this stuff. That, that was, that was the recognition of Daniel, which we've talked about, about the Son of Man. But let me, let me read at least down to 16. And because this is kind of the last bit of the trial, I call it Trial of Pilot Part two. Because he's already sent him off, tried to punt the football. It hasn't happened. Now he winds up back with him again. So here's his next idea. We're just going to give him the half death, which is what's good. This idea of Roman flogging. Pilate took Jesus and had him flog. So this was his answer to finally do something. He still didn't want to kill him, but he thought, well, if I just abuse him and flog him, then this will make this bloodthirsty crowd happy. The soldiers twisted together a crown of thorns, put it on his head. They clothed him in a purple robe and went up to him again and again saying, hail, King of the Jews. And they struck him in the face. So this is humiliation and this is all part of the Romans. And what they did, the idea was that we're going to humiliate you. We're going to make sure that you're in agony. All these things that are going to happen. Once more, Pilate came out. So now it's like, okay, look, I'm bringing him out to you to let you know I find no basis for a charge against him. Again, he cannot find wrongdoing in Jesus. When Jesus came out wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe, Pilate said to them, here is the man. And N.T. wright makes the point that, you know, in Roman culture, they had all these statues of people that all these emperors and all this. And this was kind of that moment from Pilate's perspective. As soon as the chief priests and their officials saw him, they shouted, crucify. Crucify. But Pilate answered, you take him and crucify him. As for me, I Find no basis for a charge against him. The Jews insisted we have a law. And according to the law, he must die because he claimed to be the Son of God. Which is interesting that they would go there. So you got the Son of Man, Son of God claims when Pilate heard this, he was even more afraid. And we've talked about that. And we talked about his wife having the vision. And he went back inside the palace. And he says, where do you come from? He asked Jesus. But Jesus gave him no answer. Do you refuse to speak to me? Pilate said, don't you know I have power either to free you or to crucify you? And now Jesus is going to speak up. You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin. Which talking about the Jews. From then on, Pilate tried to set Jesus free. But the Jews kept shouting, if you let this man go, you are no friend of Caesar. Anyone who claims to be a king opposes Caesar. When Pilate heard this, he brought Jesus out. He set him on the judge's seat at a place known as the stone pavement, which is Aramaic. In Gabbatha, it was the day of preparation of Passover week, about the sixth hour. So this is time when they're slaughtering the lambs, which John throws that in for a reason, I think. Here is your king, Pilate said to the Jews. But they shouted, take him away. Take him away. Crucify him. Shall I crucify your king? Pilate asked. Jace, to your point, it's just incredulous, right? We have no king but Caesar, the chief priest answered, which. Think about that. I mean, what a blasphemy that is. Finally Pilate handed him over to be crucified. So I'll stop there in terms of this kind of the last thing. Finally, Pilate. And then one of the texts we read, Jason, I think it's the Matthew text, he washes his hands at this point and says, this is on you. I'm washing my hands of this whole thing. And they said, oh, yeah, we'll take it. In fact, his blood is on us and our children.

[Jason]

I found something interesting. I don't know if I have time to do this right. But where it says, you know, they put the crown of thorns, which is interesting in one way, is that the first appearance of thorns in the Bible is after sin.

[Al]

Genesis.

[Jason]

Yeah. And it was a curse put on. And so here's now Jesus, who is launching. What I would say is New creation, you know, after what he's fixed to do happens, then that phrase starts coming up in the letters to the churches. If anyone is in Christ. Second Corinthians 5, he is a new creation. The old is gone, the new has come. But also when I. This the way AI is so rapidly advancing, you know, you can now just like, type in. Give me the Greek literal translation. It pops up there way better than what I was doing with the Bible hub. I mean, it is just crazy. And so I was checking it out, and I was looking at some of these verses. And so this obscure verse where it says, in John 19, 8, where he's wearing the crown. Where's that?

[Al]

Is that in 8, 5?

[Jason]

Yeah, yeah, sorry. 18, 5 when Jesus came out. Yeah, 1905, when Jesus came out wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe. I forgot why I looked this verse up. Oh, oh. Because I was looking into. Here's the man.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

Because what a statement. Because immediately you go back to that. You go back to that. In the beginning, you know, was the word. Words were with God and the word became flesh. So here's the man.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

And which I think the opposite of that would be, you know, the flesh didn't become word. I mean, because we tend to, once again, look at all this from a theological. We're studying this. But. And just think back to the closing moments here. He didn't kind of give give them a philosophical speech on what he was fixing to do. He gave them a meal, he washed their feet, then he said a prayer. I mean, it's all so practically human. Yeah. On what led up to this point. But what's crazy is I was looking up something else, but I saw that word wearing, and I just clicked on it for some unknown reason. And that word's only used six times, the Greek word. And what I discovered was fascinating when I went to First Corinthians 15, because two of the six times is mentioned there. I was telling Missy about this last night. I went in there. I was like, you're not going to believe what I found. And I went through what I want to go through, and I've introduced it, and I know we're going to run out of time, but in my mind, I thought, there's nothing about wearing in First Corinthians 15. I mean, there's a few chapters in the Bible that I know, like the whole chapter. And First Corinthians 15 is one of them. I was like, nowhere in there does it talk about anything about wearing. I was thinking, where you know, it says we must clothe when the perishable has clothed itself with the imperishable. So I was like, oh, that must be the clothes. No, that's not it. So I want to read this, and when we come back to our next podcast, I'll show you what I discovered. But where that word is used is in verse 49. And the reason I didn't see it is because they don't. This is the only place where they don't put wear. Because when you look up the Greek word which is phoreho, it can mean bear or wear, because think about it, they put the crown on him so he would bear it, but he was also wearing it. Even your clothes, you're bearing them. If somebody gave you a shirt three times too big, you would wear it, but you would also have to bear it because it's too big. That's kind of what the word means. Found is fascinating. So I want to read this verse. In verse 48 and 49, as was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth. And as is the man from heaven, so also are those are of heaven. And we're going to read around this when we come back. And just as we have borne or wear the likeness of the earthly man, which we do bear this because we have problems, so shall we wear, says bear the likeness of the man from heaven.

[Al]

Oh.

[Jason]

Oh, yeah, it's. It's gonna be.

[Al]

Oh, I like. I like where. I like where you're going with this.

[Jason]

This is. This is going to be good.

[Al]

So here's. Here's your assignment before the next podcast. Go read First Corinthians 15, because that's where we're gonna read the whole chapter. Read the whole chapter. And that's where we're gonna be.

[Jason]

I like one of the most exciting things I've ever discovered randomly in quotations.

[Al]

Mark Random.

[Jason]

Because he wore the thorns, we get to wear his likeness. And trying to wrap your head around that is very exciting.

[Al]

It's a recreation moment. All right, we'll get there Next time on A Shame. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.