Ep 1207 | Jase Comes Clean About What REALLY Happened on the Macy’s Parade Float & the Curse of Idols

Summary

Unashamed with the Robertson Family

Episode 1207 | Jase Comes Clean About What REALLY Happened on the Macy’s Parade Float & the Curse of Idols
Date: November 12, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the Robertson family dives into two major themes: Jase's long-awaited correction regarding the Macy's Thanksgiving Parade float incident and a deep exploration of biblical idolatry, human vocation, and the meaning of Christ’s suffering, especially as it relates to the “curse of idols.” Through personal stories, scriptural analysis, and lively discussion, the family connects everyday life, Christian faith, and ancient scripture in their trademark candid, humorous Louisiana style.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jase's "Confession" and the Macy’s Parade Float Mix-Up

(00:06 – 05:00)

• The episode opens with a rare official retraction: confusion arose about which rock star refused to perform on the Macy’s Parade float shared with the Duck Dynasty crew.
• It was NOT Pat Benatar, as previously claimed, but Joan Jett who objected (due to her strong PETA affiliation and discomfort with the show’s hunting background).
• The Robertsons note the irony of combining Joan Jett (a vocal animal rights advocate) and Duck Dynasty (hunters) on a float.
• Memorable moment:
  • Jase jokes:

    “She came out with the next one, which was 'I hate Duck Dynasty.'” (02:34–02:43, Jase)

  • Al quips about the dangers of "fake news" and the importance of correcting mistakes.
• The family laughs about the need for integrity and humility in the public eye, with some playful ribbing.

2. Reflections on Culture, Division, and Ethical Hunting

(05:00 – 07:00)

• The Robertsons discuss how today’s culture is more polarized than it was 13-14 years ago, drawing a contrast with their earlier experiences on national media (e.g., Jimmy Kimmel).
• They defend their version of ethical hunting and stewardship of creation:

  “If you are a meat eater… I don’t know how you can do it more ethically than what we have always done our entire lives.” (04:22–04:32, Zach)

• They tie this stewardship directly back to biblical principles—being fruitful, multiplying, subduing the earth, and dominion over the animal kingdom.

3. Idolatry in the Bible and Its Modern Parallels

(07:00 – 09:45)

• The discussion pivots to biblical theology, focusing on the insidiousness of idolatry.
• The hosts draw a strong connection between ancient idol worship (golden calf, Baal) and contemporary struggles like pornography and misplaced priorities.
• Notably, they reference a previous episode (Ep 1197 with Covenant Eyes) about sexual integrity and the modern plagues of pornography.
• Quote:

  “Idolatry always tries to thwart dominion. You give dominion over to things you should be having dominion over. You let them rule you instead.” (06:11–06:21, Zach)

• The theme: Idolatry in any form—whether ancient Baal worship or modern addictions—reverses humanity’s proper relationship with God and the world.

4. The Curse of Idols, Sexuality, and Generational Consequences

(09:45 – 13:45)

• The Robertsons discuss how idolatry in the Old Testament was often tied to sexual misconduct, ultimately leading to the destruction of families and even child sacrifice.
• Zach makes a pointed observation:

  “In the Baal worship, they were actually offering up… a child. They’re offering these children up to this foreign God to be sacrificed and killed. And that’s still going on today.” (08:11–08:26, Zach)

• The group draws a direct line from spiritual idolatry to societal harm—emphasizing that evil leads to death, while God leads to life and fruitful multiplication.

5. Deep Dive: John 19 and the “Crown of Thorns”

(13:45 – 27:37)

• The episode transitions into biblical analysis—specifically, John 19:5 (Pilate presenting Jesus with the crown of thorns).
• Jase explores the word “wearing,” connecting it to “bearing” (as in, bearing a curse) and walks through 1 Corinthians 15.
• Discussions on Adam and Christ: Adam brings death; Christ brings eternal life and a new, imperishable body.
• Key theological insight:
  • “We’re wearing Jesus, the one that was from heaven. We’re wearing his stuff. Way better—with the imperishable. He has imperishable qualities.” (26:03–26:13, Jase)
• The new creation is contrasted with humanity’s fallen state—a reminder that Christ undoes the curse introduced by Adam.

6. The Curse in Genesis, Crowns of Thorns, and the Meaning of Suffering

*(31:51 – 36:30, 47:08–)

• Zach directly ties Genesis 3 and the curse of thorns to Christ’s suffering:

  “Because he’s wearing the curse. He’s actually bearing the curse of sinful man. So it’s not an accident that they’re placing this crown of thorns on his head… they’re actually putting the curse of Adam on Jesus.” (34:06–34:30, Zach)

• The panel articulates that with Jesus taking on the curse, humanity gains not just forgiveness from sin but also freedom from the ancient curse—so the “garden” can once again flourish.
• They urge listeners to view their daily lives and vocations as part of this redemptive process.

7. Faith, Faithfulness, and the Call to Action

(41:13 – 43:31)

• The family refutes a passive or purely intellectual approach to faith.

  “You can’t separate doing stuff from salvation. You can’t separate the vocation of what you’re called to.” (41:13–41:23, Zach)

• Jase highlights the inseparability of faith and faithfulness—practical obedience flows from saving faith.
• They critique “works versus grace” controversies, emphasizing that salvation leads to good works, not the other way around.

8. Suffering, Submission, and the Example of Christ

(47:57 – 53:38)

• The discussion turns practical: Peter’s call to submit to earthly authorities in 1 Peter 2 is grounded in Christ’s own experience of unjust suffering.
• Jase reads at length, connecting Jesus “bearing our sins in his body on the tree” with the believer’s calling to endure suffering for righteousness.
• Quote:

  “He entrusted himself to him who judges justly. Not only did he believe in things he wasn’t physically seeing… he was faithful to that process.” (52:10–52:21, Jase)

• They underscore that God’s victory was achieved through apparent defeat—by bearing evil, Christ undoes evil.

9. Theological Reflection/Set Up for Next Episode

(53:38 – 55:53)

• The episode closes with thoughts about Christ’s death on the “tree” (cross), alluding to Deuteronomy’s curse and setting up further reflection.
• Jase and the team assign “homework” for listeners:
  • Romans 4:17 and 2 Corinthians 5 will be foundational texts for next time.
  • Zach hints at discussing Christ’s atonement for our “substantial moral guilt.”
  • The notion that “when Christ died, therefore all died” will be a major point of discussion.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Humility and Corrections:

  “This is how fake news starts.” (01:21, Al)

• On Idolatry Today:

  “This… is where I think the devil’s attacking at this moment.” (06:55, Zach)

• On the Meaning of Christ’s Suffering:

  “But what they’re actually doing is… putting the curse of Adam on Jesus… Christ will bear the curse and ultimately will be victorious over the curse.” (34:19–34:30, Zach)

• On Faithfulness vs. Faith:

  “Can you have faith without being faithful? No… Even AI said, no, that’s not possible.” (42:20–42:27, Jase)

• On Works and Salvation:

  “It’s not that I don’t have to do anything to be saved. It’s that I have to be saved so I can do stuff.” (41:57–42:03, Zach)

• On Suffering Like Christ:

  “He entrusted himself to him who judges justly.” (52:15–52:21, Jase)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:06 – Retraction about Macy’s Parade: Joan Jett vs. Pat Benatar confusion
• 03:52 – Culture wars, division, and public identity
• 05:13 – Biblical dominion and stewardship of creation
• 07:00 – Sexuality, idolatry, and the modern context of sin
• 13:45 – John 19: Jesus wears the crown of thorns, new Adam/creation theology
• 27:37 – The curse, suffering, and resurrection body discussion
• 34:06 – Genesis 3 and the curse of thorns; Christ bears the curse
• 41:13 – Works and faithfulness; the call to Christian vocation
• 47:57 – 1 Peter 2: the meaning of submission and suffering like Christ
• 53:38 – Preview of future episodes: atonement, resurrection, and next biblical texts

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Tone & Style

The episode features the Robertsons' signature blend of family banter, Southern humor, serious Bible study, and relatable stories. They move fluidly from comedic moments and teasing, to heartfelt confession, to deep scriptural analysis, always tying personal experience back to Christian faith and biblical truths.

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For Next Time

• Read: Romans 4:17 and 2 Corinthians 5
• Reflect on: Faith and faithfulness; Christ’s atonement for personal and cosmic guilt

“We’ll pick all these themes… There’s a few little assignments before our next time together on Unashamed.” (55:53, Al)

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(Ads, sponsor plugs, and unrelated content were excluded for brevity and focus.)

Transcript

[A]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[B]

So welcome back to Unashamed. I have to open with a sincere apology.

[A]

Yeah. Because we will give you time. Is this our first official retraction?

[B]

Maybe this is a full.

[C]

This is a. This is Apologies are in order episode.

[B]

Look, I did it.

[A]

I am upset.

[B]

I did it. Our crack staff. You know, Maddie's. Maddie's gone. We. We mentioned that on the last podcast. She's on a cruise. She's somewhere in the Caribbean. And Josh, who's our Swiss army knife, who used to be our producer, and now he's moved up or outward. I don't know if it was the lateral move. Zachary. I mean, Joshua and upward move. But he does a little bit of everything for us. But he looked up during our interlude here before, from the last podcast to now, which for us is 10 minutes ago. For you guys, it's a day or two. And it was not Pat Benatar that was at the Macy's Parade when we were there. It was Joan Jett, which Jayce correctly said, because my mind went to the song. And then I started doubting myself on the podcast. But then I thought, no, it had to be.

[A]

Oh, really? You didn't seem like you were doubting.

[B]

Well, I was strong until. Until I sang the jukebox song. And then I thought, oh, I think I've got the wrong person. I did.

[A]

This is how fake news starts.

[B]

This is how fake news starts.

[A]

Benatar just, you know, out there minding their own business.

[B]

Pat, if you're a listener or someone's a fan or a friend of Pat Benatar, please give her my apologies. She can hit me with her best shot.

[C]

It wasn't Pat.

[B]

It wasn't Pat, but it was Joan Jett. And Josh found out that she was upset. I thought she was upset about being on the bus with us. He said in the reporting on the Internet.

[A]

No, once he said it, I remember.

[B]

She was supposed to perform on our float, and she refused to do it because she's a very strong PETA person. So she's the People for Ethical Treatment of Animals, and I guess she thought our duck hunting violated that.

[C]

I feel like we treat animals very ethically.

[A]

You're actually surprised? Look, somebody at a meeting somewhere in New York for the Macy's Parade said, oh, I got it. Let's get Joan Jett and Duck Dynasty on the float together. What could go wrong? She's into PETA. They're hunting ducks. Oh, yeah, I'm sure it'll be great.

[B]

And she's on the back of our bus fuming about the whole setup. And that was the problem. So now I get it. I miss it.

[A]

Which led her to a new song. You know, she had the one. I love rock and roll. And then she. She came out with the next one, which was I hate Duck Dynasty.

[B]

I hate Duck Dynasty.

[C]

Well, I made that up.

[A]

Look, I made that up. Josh, that's the first time I've seen you laugh.

[B]

So that's all it took after.

[C]

I think that's. That takes a real man.

[A]

Alright.

[C]

That takes.

[B]

You know, Zach, you gotta admit when you're wrong. And Jace has used to wear the shirt that said I could be wrong. And so we always got to remember that I was wrong. Pat Benatar, we love you.

[C]

Integrity check.

[B]

Love is a battlefield. Love is a battlefield. That's what started this. Not. And I don't even have anything against Joan Jett.

[A]

She.

[B]

She didn't want to perform with us, but I have no. I still like her music.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It was like, remember when y' all were going to be on Jimmy Kimmel and there was the singer that would appear. Same reason.

[A]

I'm out.

[B]

I'm out. You know, I'm not going to be with Jason.

[A]

The fact that we were on Jimmy Kimmel after.

[B]

Well, look at. Now, that seems pretty amazing.

[A]

We were on that show.

[B]

I know I said very. And he. And he defended y' all about that whole situation and did a funny. You and Willie did a funny skit.

[A]

I think it shows you, though, how much the culture has now defined themselves. I mean, people were, I think, in their respective closets about different things.

[B]

And by the way, just to put this in perspective, this wasn't like last year. This was like 13 or 14 years ago. This is a long time ago.

[A]

That's what I mean. But now everybody's, you know, we're so divided politically.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

That everyone now is like, I only want people on our show who think like me.

[B]

What dad used to always say about PETA and stuff, he would be like, hey, if you don't want to eat meat, I got no issue with that. He said, vegetables are delicious and we'll just eat more for the rest of y'. All. So, I mean, he. That's kind of.

[C]

But if you are a meat eater, if you. If you do claim to be a meat eater, then I don't know how you can do it more ethically than what we have always done our entire lives.

[B]

No doubt about it.

[C]

You live a wild and free life until you don't. And then we eat.

[A]

You well, trust me, even in the government, people are controlling the populations of animals, which is what God instituted for humans to do. Yeah.

[B]

Subdued.

[A]

They just don't go out there and tell you about it. I know certain people who do that, even for the government. So you have to have a balance out there. And things get part of.

[C]

I think part of our role is. Well, one of the main reasons why we were created was to be fruitful, multiply, subdue the Earth and have dominion over it, which I think it includes our dominion over the animal kingdom. And I think when I get that's what.

[A]

I think that's a truth. Yeah, that's what I mean.

[C]

I thought about this on Sunday, because we're going through biblical theology at our church is basically, how do you read the Bible in the context of the whole story and not isolate things out? And we were in the part about idolatry, and there was a mention from the guy teaching class about the golden calf in Exodus and then also the worship of baal. And I thought about this because he was talking about how idolatry always tries to thwart dominion. And what ends up happening is you give dominion over to the things that you should be having dominion over. You let them rule you instead. And I thought, you know, what was present at both the worship of the golden calf in Exodus and the worship of baal, what was present at both of those was just unbridled, like sexuality just on display at both of those. And I thought it's interesting that that is always attached to idolatry. And I think the reason why that is is because if you can turn sex inward, then you end up worshiping that in and of itself, and it stops the actual procreation and the fruitful multiplication of life. And I wanted to say that because a few weeks ago, we actually had an episode we did with Covenant Eyes, which you got to go back and listen to was episode. I think it was 1197. But if you go back and read those responses of all we were talking about pornography and sexual integrity and what it means to frontline 21, man. You go back and read those responses, and I'm telling y', all, all the episodes we've done in recent history, that that one hit a nerve with people, because this is where I think the devil's attacking at this moment. And I did want to just remind you guys, if we're in this together and. And we. We really want you to be a part of that. By the way, just give a plug for those guys. You can go to frontline21.com Zach I.

[B]

Got a lot of comments as well from people that listen to the podcast that have access to me and of sounding board for me. And I mean, across the board, it was like, man, even if it wasn't personally for them, they were so glad we were talking about it because of what you mentioned, this idea, the falsehood. I love that you compared to idolatry, because we kept talking about it in the episode, that it's just a false narrative, it's a false reality, it's not real. And God gave us something real for a reason. And so that goes all the way back when you were mentioning the idolatry. I was thinking about in the Old Testament, all of the Asherah polls and all this, these BAAL worship and all that was all centered around this exact same thing. It was supposedly for financial reasons and agriculture, but it always wound up with people having sex outside of marriage or with other people as the form of worship for these.

[C]

And then the kids. And then the kids end up being the ones that are sacrificed. And we think this is just Old Testament stuff. But in the BAAL worship, they were actually offering up the product of the sexuality, which is a child. They're offering these children up to this foreign God to be sacrificed and killed. And that's still going on today. So one of the things that we're. So we're in John 19 right now talking about the death of Christ. I mean, you have to understand that evil, always, the end of evil is always death and the end of God. Well, there's no end to God, but the entry into God is always life and fruitful multiplication. Which is why I think it's the centerpiece of this story of the cross is that Christ is defeating sin and death and offering up life that we are invited into and to live abundantly.

[B]

Yeah. And Jace in the last episode kind of led us to this point. So I want to get us back there because I can't wait to hear the payoff on his idea because. And it's just what you're describing, Zach. So Jace took it back to John 19:5, and we talked about this when Pilate said, here is the man. And what a moment that was because it's this recognition of the man Jesus, which goes Back to John 1, to Genesis 1 we've been talking about. But one of the things Jason noticed that the word wearing, when Jesus came out wearing the crown of thorns, kind of what that word meant, and that took him to exactly where Zach was just hinting at.

[C]

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[B]

I.

[A]

Wasn'T planning on making an issue about it. It just, I was clicking on different words. And so then once I read the First Corinthians 15, I was like, well, I was curious about that. So. But it goes into what we were talking about on the last podcast about, you know, here's this contrast between the first creation and the new creation. So you have. There's multiple places in Romans and Paul uses this. And in First Corinthians where he's like the first Adam and then he references Jesus. He doesn't say the second Adam, but it's. What is it? What does he say earlier in First Corinthians 15? Oh, yeah, it says 22. For as an Adam, all die, so in Christ, all will be made alive. That's First Corinthians 15, 22.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So he's already brought this up, this whole chapter. He starts off reminding the Corinthians, embarrassingly, of the gospel.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it. It's also reminding them of the gospel according to the scriptures, which is what we've been doing, the Hebrew scriptures that predicted Jesus would come. And remember, this is all a mystery, because First Corinthians 2.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If the rulers had like, oh, well, there's the guy that's going to crush all other camp. We're not killing him, because this is actually the plan for us to lose.

[C]

It's a mystery. But it was always there.

[A]

That's why it's always there.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

It's like, oh, it was always there the whole time. We just missed it because it was a mystery.

[B]

Even. Even this. This scene we're in with the scourging and the flogging, it was predicted in Isaiah 53. I mean, the picture was clear.

[A]

So you have a lot of things going on here. Jesus is fulfilling all of these prophecies and people are looking, seeing it fulfilled, but they're like, well, it just can't be because this is not the way we would do it. That's right. If I were God and I came down, I'm not doing it this way. I'm not being slapped and spit upon. No, let's go conquer. If we're going to conquer some kingdoms, this is. I mean, let's play some heavy rock music, go blow some stuff up. You know, that's just the way we think. And it's not a picture of God that a lot of people want to embrace. And I believe they miss it because of that.

[B]

Well, and think about how much they missed it in the moment. We talked about this through the whole study of John. Their thought was the Messiah came to get the Roman boot off our neck and for us to now be the boot to everybody else. Well, that was never the plan.

[C]

Now, you.

[B]

That was never the plan.

[C]

And you see it with this crown of thorns. I mean, you talk about recreation. Go back to the garden, Right. Are you getting there?

[A]

Well, that's where I was. I mentioned that last time, like, why he wore the. The. The thorns. And I think First Corinthians 15 does something that I never noticed before. And that's why I wanted to share this, because when he used that word, wearing the.

[B]

Wearing the crown of thorns also means bearing.

[A]

Bearing. Yeah. So in First Corinthians 15, I didn't notice this because. Because I just didn't notice it. So I want to read this because I'm going to get to your point, Zach, that you just brought up about the garden, because we're going back there in First Corinthians 15. Yeah, it's going there, but it takes a while. So I want to read this. So if we back up now, he's discussing about the resurrection, the kingdom being handed over back to the Father. That's earlier. After the first time he mentions Adam. So when he. If I go back to verse 42, talking about how are the dead raised, so will it be of the resurrection of the dead? The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable, it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory, it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power, it is sown in natural body. Is raised a spiritual body, which, look, led me to looking up the word spiritual there. But it doesn't mean what you think it means because it's not spirit body.

[B]

Yeah, it's still a body.

[A]

It's a body, but it's like. I mean, I read a lot of ways to characterize it. Of course, before I tell you what I read, how in the world, in the English language, are you going to come up with a definition of whatever Jesus got back?

[B]

That's a good point.

[A]

After he died.

[B]

It's a good point.

[A]

You're never going to be able to pull this off. So all these scholars saying, well, what that means. No, we don't.

[B]

Do you.

[A]

How do you describe.

[C]

You can't describe it because it's a prototype of whatever the new creation is going to be. So it's not something that we're actually. It's not in our realm. So when you use the word physical body, and I do use the word like physical resurrection, I say that kind of language. But when you use the word physical, what you're actually saying is bound to the laws of the physics. So if I have a physical body, I have a body bound to the laws of physics. And so technically, Jesus body wasn't physical because it wasn't bound to the laws of physics. And I've heard it described as like a. It's tangible, but it is a body, meaning it's tangible, can be touched.

[B]

So John says to your point later in 1 John, the only way we're really ever going to know what that is is when he comes back. When he appears, then we're going to see what that means.

[A]

So some of the words I read, one phrase had, it's too perfect for this world. I thought that was a good. In the Greek definitions, it was like, it's almost like it's too perfect for this world. I thought that's a really good thought because it is a new world that you will be living in. So that's when you see the. And look, that word spiritual there is not mentioned very many times. 26 times. And you can read them all, which I did. And it has that. It's like just so. Nothing carnal. That was another phrase in there. It's not. It's something you're looking at. You know how most of the time you suspect something dark, like you're like, oh, you see a situation. Oh, I bet they're up to no good.

[B]

Something sinister.

[A]

See a guy, you know. Well, I guess that's more than I was going to say. You see a guy walking, you know, naked at 2:00 clock in the morning, you know something. But that's too obvious.

[B]

But just if you see him, that Jason.

[A]

Oh, I have, yeah. What?

[B]

You see, I remember that story. You told it on the podcast. Oh, yeah.

[A]

You can't unsee it. But if you just see somebody walking down the road, you know, at 2 o' clock in the morning and waving their hands in there, you're like something. Well, the opposite of that. If it would be. You see a situation where you're like, there's just nothing dark, there's nothing carnal, there's nothing wrong.

[B]

Which by the way, what you're describing to me is what Pilate kept verbalizing when he kept looking at Jesus and questioning him. He kept looking for something, but it did not add up for what they were saying. I mean, it's exactly what you're describing.

[A]

So you're thinking, well, what does this have to do with Jesus wearing the crown? Just give it a minute. Because then he says in verse the last part of 44, if there's a natural body, there's a spiritual body. Same word there for spiritual. So it is written, the first man, Adam, became a living being. Now this is such a heavy sentence. The last Adam, a life giving spirit. But there's that word again, spirit. But think of the contrast, what he's saying there. The first Adam, you remember when he breathed into Adam and he became a living being. Look, capable of reproduction.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

He then could give life and did commence a wife to marry him. And you're creating life. Well, that's the contrast here. But the contrast is the resurrected second being. Oh, he's given eternal life because he's giving you an eternal Dwelling, body, spirit. However you want to describe what we don't know, which I find that fascinating.

[B]

And the procreative aspect of it is that then that spirit can then indwell multiple people, millions of people, billions.

[A]

Which is why he describes us as the bride of Christ. Because we're reproducing eternal beings who are born again.

[B]

And every time we see one of those birds, what do we do? Just like when you have a baby, we're clapping and, yeah, this is awesome. We're family.

[A]

Our family's getting bigger. So. Oh, it's fantastic. So this is fascinating where this goes. So then he says the spiritual did not come first, but the natural after that. The spiritual, the first man was of the dust of the earth. The second man is of heaven. Remember, Jesus was like, hey, I'm not from here. Remember the conversation he just had? My kingdom's not from this place. It's for it, but it's not from. He's from heaven.

[B]

And remember, Jay's just to throw this in. The conception of Jesus was a woman, Mary. So there were eggs or her egg, and then there was the spirit of God. That overshadowed her, I think was the word it used. I don't know what the Greek word is there, but the idea was it wasn't a male and a female. It was the spirit of God and a female that even created him to become a human being, to your point. So, Jase, it's November, which most of the world looks at as Thanksgiving time. But in the Robertson family, November also means something else.

[A]

Oh, it's duck season. But I tie that right to being thankful.

[B]

Al.

[A]

So what came first, the thankfulness or the duck season?

[B]

It is pretty special, and we've loved that our whole lives. As hunters know when you duck hunt, you have to have a federal duck stamp. And, you know, I don't think we ever reviewed it in a way as a thank you, but it really, in some ways really is. Especially now because I didn't know this chase, but because of Duck Stamp.com which now provides ducks to a way to you to get your duck stamp. 98 cents of every dollar that you spend go straight back into conserving wetlands and wildlife habitat around the country. So it is a sense of saying thank you for what God has given us. And this is the time of year that we can count on our blessings. So whether you hunt, you fish, you bird watch, or you just love knowing those places are still wild, buying a duck stamp is a powerful way to give thanks and also to give back. So if you care about conservation, about faith, and about family. This one's for you. Head over to Duckstamp.com Unashamed. That's Duckstamp.com UnashamEd to get yours today.

[A]

So as was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth. And as in the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. You're like, we're of heaven.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And just as we have borne. Oh, I just absolutely love this. Just as we have borne or worn the image of the earthly man. And you're like, what does that mean? I mean, look, I literally woke up about a week ago and my knee hurt. And Missy's like, trace it back, trace it back. There was nothing to trace it back to. I'm just at an age where you wake up and the knee hurts and nothing happens. It's called bearing the image of the earthly man. It's just part of it.

[B]

But then still saying, I felt like the morning after, but nothing happened the night before.

[A]

So then it should read, in my opinion, based on my research of this Greek word, it should read, so then shall we wear the image of the heavenly man? Because Jesus said, look at my hands and my feet. That was 2,000 years ago. And he left that way, and he still is that way. How can you live 2000 years with this new body? Well, you can. He is. He's wearing it, and we get to wear that.

[B]

And you remember what he said in that moment when that. When he said those words right after that, he looked at him, he said, you're blessed because you get to see this and feel this in the moment. But blessed are those who will believe that didn't see this. I mean, that shows you going forward, this idea of the spiritual mindset. We're believing it because we believe this. Thomas was there in the moment saying, okay, I got it. And we say the same thing.

[A]

So let me read this because you say, well, what does this have to do with Jesus wearing the crown? We're getting there. So then he says, I declare to you, 50, 15, 50 brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Now, poor Greek translation in the NIV here, it should read, I clear to you, brothers and sisters, flesh and blood, the kingdom of God cannot inherit. Because I went literal translation. Well, that makes more sense. You can wrap your head around, because all these times it mentions that what our inheritance as members of the kingdom of God coming, you can't get it from the earthly man. There's a resurrection that has to happen. You wear this new person and then you inherit.

[B]

Because to your point, that poor translation has led people saying, well, we don't have a body.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Because flesh and blood.

[A]

And I didn't change it, I just read it. Exactly. It says, brothers and sisters, flesh and blood, the kingdom of God cannot inherit. Because then the second part's right. Nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. If you're just take your chances without God and say, I'm just going. I'm a humanist and I believe humans are gods. Yeah. Well, you're going to die and that's going to be it.

[B]

Yep. And you can. You can free. You can freeze your head.

[A]

You're not in.

[B]

You can do all the things that the men have tried to do to extend.

[A]

There's nothing imperishable about you. Now, listen, I tell you a mystery. Because you're like, well, how can this be? So he's like, I'll tell you another mystery. We will not all sleep. I think that's a reference to when you die.

[B]

Has to be.

[A]

But we will all be changed in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye. At the last trumpet. The trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed for the perishable. Now, this is why I love this must clothe itself. That's why we're wearing Jesus, the one that was from heaven. We're wearing his stuff. Way better with the imperishable. He has imperishable qualities. Now is my point. He's the first human to embrace an imperishable body.

[B]

Yeah. There's no date. You know how you get your food and you look out on there and.

[A]

You say, oh, when's the expiration date?

[B]

When's the expiration?

[A]

There's not one here. And that's you we're talking about. And the mortal with immortality. Just think of that word. You're going from mortal to immortal, perishable to imperishable. I mean, imperishable is enough for me. But he went in and threw that in there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not only can nothing destroy, that basically means, well, you will live forever.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

When the perishable has. There's our word again. Has been clothed with the imperishable and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true. Death has been swallowed up in victory. So he quotes Hosea 13:14 here. Where, O death, is your victory. Where, O death, is your sting? I went back and read Hosea 13. I would read it, but it's rated R. But it's almost chuckly. God was so angry at Israel. He was so angry in there that I actually chuckled four or five times. And it made me think when. Because it was when Zack brought up idolatry. That's where it starts off. And it's like your leader is into idols, and he's dead because of it. I mean, that's how the chapter starts. And it's just. But it has this in here.

[B]

It's like a script of a Lifetime movie.

[A]

But it has this in here about death is your vic. I'm giving you death. That's what you want. You're getting death. And look, you're getting the sting of death. And that's why this next verse leads us to where we started with Crown of Thorns. Because watch what he says. The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, he gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. And the reason I wanted to read all this is because this victory Jesus path to victory, to establishing the kingdom on earth, to having people that have the spirit, where they go from perishable to imperishable. It all started with him being arrested, saying okay, and playing the little game there. Oh, you think you're in charge, but him not being sarcastic like I'm being right now. Him taking slaps to the face and all. He was dealing with these things that caused all this, like sin look like the law. Because, I mean, that's such an interesting verbiage here. The sting of death is sin. That takes you back to the garden, Zach. That's why I want to go here. He said, don't eat that tree or you'll die. Well, this is how this started. Now we've gotten another tree that's getting prepared in the shape of a cross where Jesus is fixed to make these things right and make a new creation. And then he even brings up the law. The power of sin is the law. So what did the law do? And we could go down a whole rabbit hole into that discussion that it exposed the sin, but actually sin was missing the mark, which is what it means, which goes back to this image. We're created in the image of God to represent God. When you turn to some other God, that's not God, the real God, then you start missing the mark because you're into something else. So I feel like we just make this all about sin and we lose the idols. How the law participated in. And then here comes Jesus.

[C]

Yeah, I think a lot of it gets lost in the translation even, because you use that word miss the mark and it almost makes it seem like we're throwing darts. Oh, man, I missed. I didn't hit bullseye perfectly. But that's not what it means to miss the mark actually is. It means to be on a different trajectory. It means that you're not operating inside of your design and what God has designed for you. And so you kind of see this. Going back to what we said earlier in the podcast, we mentioned that Frontline 21 with Covenant eyes that like our role as humans, like the reason why we were created was, well, primarily to worship God. What does that mean, to be a worshiper? It means to be a priest. What does it mean to be a priest? It means that we were created to be vice regents and co creators. We take the things that God made, the garden, and let's take the garden and let's in bliss, take that garden and expand it across the entire globe. Jase, you mentioned the procreation earlier. To be fruitful, multiply, to go reproduce, go create.

[A]

More.

[C]

Like our role is to take this Garden of Eden, Eden, and it is going to cover the entire cosmos. And so what happened in the garden was that they missed the mark, meaning that they got on a different trajectory and they said, no, we're actually just going to eat the fruit for the sake of the fruit. And so they misdirected their. They went in a different direction. And as a result, God came in in Genesis chapter three and he cursed them. He cursed Adam, he cursed Eve, and he cursed the serpent, and listen to how he curses Adam. Because this directly ties to what you were talking about. This is in Genesis 3:17. And to Adam, the first Adam, which you were just mentioning in 1 Corinthians 15, there's a first Adam, which is this guy. And then the second Adam is Jesus, because he did what the first Adam could never do. The first Adam, he said this because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you. You shall not eat of it. Cursed is the ground. Because of you in pain. You shall eat of it all the days of your life. So, Al, what's your favorite moment that you look forward to with the holiday season coming up?

[B]

Well, you know, I love all the Christmas traditions, but one of my favorite things is coming home and getting into my Cozy Earth pajamas because they are very comfy.

[C]

So I got the bubble cuddle blanket from Cozy Earth. And I mean, it sounds kind of cheesy, but I'm telling y' all this blanket, I'm. I am obsessed with it. So when all the family's over, we fight over it. I grab that blanket and that's what I cover up with on the couch. Oh, Jace, I see you got your bubble cuddle blanket on.

[A]

Oh, I don't just have it on. I live here. The weather has turned and it's time to break out the bubble cuddle.

[C]

I'm telling you that Cozy Earth is a great place to get gifts for people who are hard to shop for.

[B]

Zach. You know, another thing that Lisa and I love are the bamboo sheets. We tend to sleep, run a little bit hot at night, and so, man, it takes it wicks it, makes it super cool. We love it.

[C]

So Black Fridays come early, guys, at Cozy Earth. So right now you can stack our code unashamed on top of their site wide sale and that'll give you up to 40% off in savings. That's cozyearth.com use the code unashamed. These deals will not last long. So start your holiday season shopping today. And if you get a post purchase survey, please mention that you heard about Cozy Earth right here on the Unashamed podcast. Wrap the ones you love in luxury with Cozy Earth. And this is the part I want to hone in on. Thorns. Thorns and thistles, it shall bring forth for you. So if you think, what was the curse? Well, the curse was you're still going to have your dominion. The problem is now when you try to cultivate the garden and you look down there and what would have been a beautiful expression of the presence of God, now you're going to look down there and there's going to be thorns in its place. They say, well, why did Jesus have to wear a crown of thorns? Well, because he's wearing the curse. He's actually bearing the curse of sinful man. So it's not an accident that they're placing this crown of thorns on his head. It's not just that they're saying, hey, what can we put on Jesus's head that's so painful and humiliating. They don't know what they're doing. But what they're actually doing is they're actually putting the curse of Adam on Jesus. And where Adam caused the curse, now Christ will bear the curse and ultimately will be victorious over the curse. And so what we get in Christ is not simply and only freedom from sin and from hell. What we actually receive from Christ is victory over the curse. That was implemented in Genesis chapter three, which now means that in Christ we can actually Cultivate the garden and it can spread across the entire globe. You say, well, what does that look like? Well, it should look like a whole bunch of fruit. What kind of fruit? Well, the fruit of the spirit. You start with that in Galatians, chapter 5. Love, Joy, Peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self control. So now our garden in Christ is actually a fruitful garden. It's not thorns and thistles. It's a fruitful garden. It yields fruit in its season.

[A]

Well, and to your point, even though they didn't know what they were doing, I do think there's something in there about causing pain and they can mock him. And thorns were a sign of power because basically, when you defend your kingdom from an earthly standpoint, you just get bigger thorns. That's why you see all these states up. So they're sending him a message. We control. We have the power. And if you mess with us, we'll just get bigger thorns. We'll drive it through your heart or decapitate you. But I feel like, based on your analysis, I do want to read the first three or four verses of that. Hosea. This is Hosea 13. Now, later on in the chapter, it talks about that, the sting of death, and it's translated plague of death in here. But I just want to read this because your point about idolatry and about sin, missing the mark cannot be true. The problem was they're worshiping other gods. And this. They were unfaithful to God and it led to all sorts of sin and, you know, justification by the law, however they wanted to do it. But it's just mess is what it is.

[B]

Well, it was taking their whole kingdom, the whole country, the whole culture off the rails because they began following these false gods.

[A]

I think that's what people miss, is they had a job to do. God creates people with a job, a work to do. That's why Jesus at the end, when I went on that last rant in the last podcast about Jesus, at this point, point of the story, he's not giving them theology, and he's had all these arguments and they listened and he told the parables, but he went with a meal, he washed their feet, he said a prayer, he's given himself. It's a demonstration of love. And then what does he do? He gives them a job. You're like, I mean, I think half the chosen 12, it doesn't even say what they did. I mean, I think they were unemployed. But just think of who he had. He had a fisherman, tax collector, zealot. It's Just like. And they've left their jobs. The other half doesn't mention. Yeah, the zealot was the equivalent of a terrorist. He's going around, this is your crew, and then he gives them a job. As the Father sent me, I'm sending you. I mean, it's so basic. You're like, well, why?

[B]

And you remember his first accusation, tell us what you've been doing. And he said, why are you asking me that? I've been talking in public, what I've been doing the whole. I mean, he was like, it's very simple. It's out there. People know.

[A]

But to Zach's point is what I'm trying to say God, when he created us, when we use that phrase, well, I'm created in the image of God, but we usually just talk about, oh, I'm valuable, you know, God loves me. No, he's got a job for you. He wants you to reflect his image. And Israel was supposed to reflect their nation as God's chosen nation to other nations. Well, that's not going to happen. When you read, like, the first three verses of Hosea 13, it says, when Ephraim spoke, people trembled, he was exalted in Israel. Everything sounds great, but he became guilty of BAAL worship, and so he died. Now they sin more and more. They make idols for themselves from their silver, cleverly fashioned images. See, these are the images they're into. It's earthly things. That's why I read all that. 1 Corinthians 15. That's why Paul masterfully threw that in there. Because this chapter, as it goes on, it gets rough to read. I mean, they're sacrificing their children. The next verse says, it is said of these people, they offer human sacrifices. They kiss calf idols. I mean, they're doing just stuff that's. You know, we make horror shows and say, oh, that's not real. Nobody would actually do that kind of stuff. These are God's chosen people. They're not representing him. And so God's angry, but they.

[C]

But it's a good point, because they have to do something. And that's the thing that is, I think we've been up against in the modern church, is that we. We're so afraid to enter into a legalistic workspace system that we want to separate doing stuff from salvation. But you can't separate the vocation of what you're called to.

[A]

Oh, Zach, you could not be any more right. Look, half the New Testament is talking about God prepared work in advance for.

[B]

Us to do Ephesians 2.

[C]

I'll go as far as to say this. It's a false gospel. Anyone that tries to separate. This is James's point. Like, you can't separate works from grace. And so to try to just, like, we're not going to talk about works or what we got to do. That's not the full gospel. It's not the gospel. I'm just telling you, it's not the gospel. And you say, well, hold on. I don't have to do anything to be saved. You're missing the point. It's not that I don't have to do anything to be saved. It's that I have to be saved so that I can do stuff. You have to flip it. I mean, that's the point.

[A]

I'll drop another bombshell on you because I went down a rabbit hole just looking up the meaning of the word faith, translated faith. And in every case, it'll say in your Greek lexicon, faith, faithful faith or faithfulness. And it hit me, and I just Googled this to AI. I wanted to see what they said, and I was like, well, can you have faith without being faithful? No.

[B]

Even AI agrees.

[A]

Even AI said, no, that's not possible. But we have, like, faith as just some little vehicle that you have to go through to be saved, you know, and when you. It changes, it should change. If you. If you just put that in the back of your mind, what I just said, you will never unsee. Because all the truth, the passages that are in conflict in the denominational world under the umbrella of Christianity, if you would just keep that in mind. Faith and faithfulness, it goes hand to hand. There's a lot of these disputable passages that I think you're like, oh, okay, there's. Sometimes it's talking about being faithful. Because my whole point is, if you read the Old Testament, Israel's unfaithfulness is all over the place, in fact, which is why God divorced them, because they were unfaithful. It's like, if your wife is unfaithful, guess what? We got problems.

[B]

And by the way, that's the theme of Hosea. So, Zach, a recent Danish study found that within a year after an abortion, women were 50% more likely to need psychiatric treatment and 87% more likely to have personal, personality or behavioral disorders. So that's really not women's health care, that's women's health trauma. And I know that to be true because my soulmate, the woman I've been married TO for over 40 years, I saw, you know, for the first 33 years of her life, her carried probably half of that, the trauma of having a teenage abortion. And so I know that, I know it to be real because I live with it. Our good friends at Preborn really understand that women receive care that truly heals because it's about a healing process. When a woman visits a Preborn network clinic, she meets her baby for the first time through an ultrasound and is shown life instead of loss. And she's offered hope filled options. But that's not all. When she chooses life, Preborn continues walking with her for up to two years, providing maternity clothes, diapers, counseling, and so much more. Preborn truly cares for the whole woman, body, mind and soul, and the precious baby that's growing inside of her. As you think about your year end giving, consider the greatest investment you could ever make. And that's the gift of life right now. You can dial £250, say the keyword BABY. That's £250 BABY. Or you can visit preborn.comunashamed. that's preborn.com unashamed. All gifts are tax deductible and Preborn is a five star rated charity.

[C]

I mean, you see it, you see it with Jose. I mean, it's such a perfect example because you think about like the unfaithfulness of a wife. Well, because what's the point? Like it's, I was telling Max this because, you know, we said in the last episode he got engaged and I was like, I like, well, people say all the time, well, you're too young to get married. I'm like, what? Like, where did that come from, that you can't get married at 20 years old? I mean, George Washington was managing like 16,000 acres or something when he was 16 years old. I mean, like, like, go trade.

[A]

Checked on that.

[C]

But I mean, it may be wrong, but I mean, I'm saying he was doing, he was managing a lot for a 16 year old.

[A]

There's a lot of people behind the board right now doing this. They're clicking things, they're, they're checking. But go ahead, Josh.

[B]

Yeah, you tell us where you want to be like me and apologize to Joe George Washington.

[C]

I may have to do that on the next podcast. I think Pat Benatar was managing 16,000 acres. But the point is that if you think about what is the vocation, what has God called us to, it really looks a whole lot like a family that is expanding and growing out a homestead. And so when we think about this gospel that tries to divorce, it from that. And it's like we're so obsessed. Like, are we saved by works or. I mean, I'm like, guys, like, we, like, don't let that dominate your thought. Because then you start. Then it's like you reduce the gospel to this thing that happened one time, a long time ago.

[B]

But doesn't it. And doesn't where we're at, Zach, in this story of what Jesus is doing show just what y' all are talking about, in other words?

[A]

Well, that's where I was headed.

[B]

The idea about being all in.

[A]

This is what faithfulness looks like. Look, think about the verse, Romans 12.

[B]

Before you can live a resurrected life, you have to be put to death. So this is exactly what we're talking about.

[C]

And he's wearing the thorns. I mean, like. I mean, we can't just overlook this. He's wearing the curse. And I mean, he's going to liberate us. That's why the creation itself. Romans 8. The creation itself, the one that's taken over with thorns and thistles. What does Paul say in Romans 8? It groans with eager expectation, waiting for the sons of God to be revealed. The creation itself is frustrated. It's like we're waiting for this. And Christ is showing. He's bearing that right now, in this moment. He's bearing the thorns. He's bearing the thistles. He's bearing the curse. He's bearing the child, the child bearing pains of Eve. He's bearing the cursed ground that was. He's bearing all of it. His heel in this moment is being bruised.

[A]

But I want to bring up this point. That's why verses that are not read very often in church is first Peter 2. When Peter starts talking about submit yourselves to masters if you're a slave, or to the authorities. We don't like to talk about these things. Well, the reason that he wrote that is because of John 19. That's what Jesus did to accomplish the salvation of the world. That's right. So Peter is saying, look, we get it. You're of the earthly man. You got to bear this image of being in Adam. And sometimes you're going to be mistreated and people who think they have power are going to abuse you. And here's what Peter wrote. I went here because I thought the same word when it says, jesus bore our sins. When he gets to that. I thought that was going to be the same as where, but it's different. This one's carry or offered. He took on himself. He carried them for us. But I want to read this because I think it fits the narrative on why this is in the Bible. Peter said, Submit yourselves 2, 13, for the Lord's sake, to every authority instituted among men, whether kings, supreme authority, or to governors who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men. Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover up for evil. As servants of God, show proper respect to everyone, love the brotherhood of believers, fear God. Then he says, honor the king. Because what's the irony of all this? And people who are against Jesus being the Son of God, they bring this up. They're like, well, didn't God institute the authorities that actually put him to death? You don't see how that doesn't make sense. And I'm like, yeah, but they didn't understand it. This is more about bringing heaven and earth back together again. And this is the way he did it in love. And he did. He took the slaps in the face, he took the mocks and the spit in the face and all this. So then it goes on to say, slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good, etcetera, but also to those who are harsh. This is just the life we're in. Because then he ties it to what Jesus did, for it is commendable. If a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he's conscious of God, that is a definition of what Jesus is displaying. He's giving you a demonstration. He's not giving you theology, he's just saying, watch this. But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it, but if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. Well, Jesus has given you the proof of that, right? To this you were called because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example that you should follow in his steps. Well, this is why people don't come to Christ. I don't want anything to do with this. I mean, can you believe what they did to me? You know, that's kind of our mantra. But then he quotes Isaiah first. Yeah, Isaiah 53. He committed no sin, not just in the moment, he committed no sin ever. And no deceit was found in his mouth when they hurled their insults at him. That's what we're reading right now. Look, he didn't retaliate when he suffered. He didn't make Any threats. And here's the key, talking about faith, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. Not only did he believe in things that he wasn't physically seeing as the bigger plan, he was faithful to that process. Then it says he himself bore our sins in his body on the tree. And this is a kicker. So that we might die to sins. We get rid of them. We're separated from the sins because of the blood on the cross.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

So that we might die to sins and live for righteousness. And by the way, whenever you see the Bible talking about faith and faithfulness, righteousness is right in there with it.

[B]

Always right there.

[A]

Always right there. Once you see it, you'll never unsee it. By his wounds, you have been healed. I mean, there is a healing that took place 2,000 years ago to humanity. It was. And just think about any kind of pain that you experience. There's pain, because that should get your attention. We have a problem, which our problem was not just sin, but we went through it idolatry. We're worshiping the wrong things. We're not imagining God. We're not doing our vocation before God. But a healing took place on that cross. For you were like sheep going astray. But now you have returned to the shepherd an overseer of your souls. And I looked that word up, soul. It's not some out of body experience. It's just your life. It's used more times as translated. Life. Yeah, it's just your. It's your life, it's your heart. And that's what he accomplished. And that's why he wrote that. And people read that and they're like, oh, no, I'm not going to submit to anybody. What are you talking about? They're evil. Evil. That's how God pulled off the greatest thing that's ever happened on the planet.

[B]

Yeah, that's exactly true. And I love it because we hadn't even gotten there yet. We're going to on future podcasts when we get to the actual crucifixion part. Where was it? On a tree. And then we know from Deuteronomy, cursed is he who was killed on a tree. So that same garden narrative again. Remember the tree of knowledge of good and evil? You see a new tree now bearing the sin for all of us. So there's just so many connections.

[A]

Well, what I'd like to do for the next podcast is because I know we're out of time, but I'd like to read this. Romans 4:17. So if you want to get ahead because there's a phrase in there that is so shocking that you're like, what does this mean?

[C]

And so I got one thing too, I want to hit on the next one. I'm going to claim it.

[A]

Well, I introduced mine, so you introduce yours. I'm going to read Romans 4, verse 17. So there's some homework. And how faith is defined with keeping faithfulness in mind.

[C]

Well, I think we today talked a lot about one side of what was accomplished on the cross, but there's another part too, that I want to hone in on even in the next episode. And I think about John Newton, who wrote probably one of the most famous hymns, Amazing Grace, who was a slave trade. And you think about there's another aspect here that one is dealing with our, like, propensity to go in a different direction. But one of it is we do have a true and substantial moral guilt before a holy God that is also being taken on by Christ in this moment. That it allows us, not just in our. We are enemies in our mind, but we're also enemies of God. And I do think that that is also part of this, that needs to be talked about in the next podcast that Christ's sacrifice pays for.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

I love it. And I've got one as well. Second Corinthians 5. Oh, we're, we're going to read because that's a, that's an expansion of what Jace talked about in 1 Corinthians 15.

[A]

We're reading 2nd Corinthians 5.

[B]

I had already written down a smoking.

[A]

Gun in there that says, I know it, but when Christ died, therefore all died.

[B]

Yeah, we're going to talk about that.

[A]

What does that mean?

[B]

So, all right, we'll, we'll pick all these themes. There's a few little assignments before our next time together on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.