Ep 1209 | John Luke Terrorizes Al & Zach With His Odd Pet & Moses Throws a Hissy Fit Over a Golden Calf

Summary

Podcast Summary: Unashamed with the Robertson Family, Ep 1209

Title: John Luke Terrorizes Al & Zach With His Odd Pet & Moses Throws a Hissy Fit Over a Golden Calf
Date: November 14, 2025
Hosts: Phil, Zach, John Luke, Christian

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Overview

In this spirited and lively episode, the Robertson clan dives into the final chapters of Exodus, exploring the themes of idolatry, God's presence, and the notorious golden calf incident. The discussion is spurred by John Luke’s surprise visit with a bearded dragon, leading the group to muse about pets, creation, and ancient Egyptian connections to reptiles. Amid laughter and playful teasing, the group transitions into a thought-provoking Bible study, unpacking Moses’ leadership, Israel’s wavering faith, and the timeless human propensity toward idolatry and self-sufficiency. The episode is rich with biblical insight, personal anecdotes, and the signature humor of the Robertsons.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

John Luke’s “Commander” and Reptile Antics

[00:42–03:40]

• John Luke arrives with his pet bearded dragon, Commander, which unsettles Zach and Al—prompting jokes and discussion about the unnaturalness (or not) of reptile pets.
  • “I feel like this is...it’s unnatural to have a...” — Zach [01:44]
  • “This is your golden calf, John.” — Christian [01:02]
• John Luke shares Commander is a rescue, and reflects on his history of keeping odd pets as a child, from squirrels to lizards.
• Mary Kate, John Luke’s wife, has banned the lizard from the house—echoing ancient Egypt’s fascination with reptiles, segueing naturally to the day’s scripture focus.

Idolatry, the Golden Calf, and Human Nature

[09:05–24:18]

• The group transitions to Exodus, discussing God’s specific instructions about building altars and avoiding idols.
  • “Do not make for yourselves gods of silver or gods of gold...” — Phil (quoting Exodus) [09:13]
• Discussion of God’s instruction against constructing altars with hewn stone and the insistence on using what He provides, underscoring reliance on God rather than human achievement.
  • “You can’t build something good enough for me...I’ll provide [the altar].” — John Luke [10:05]
• Moses’ time on the mountain (forty days) is highlighted as a cue for Israel’s backsliding into idol-making, showing human impatience and forgetfulness.
  • “You forget quickly.” — Zach [15:36]
• The group notes the irony: While God provides instructions for His people to be in His presence, they create the golden calf hoping for certainty and comfort.
  • “If I’m worshiping something that my hands have made, then ultimately, what am I worshiping? Myself.” — Zach [22:40]

The Ripple of Sin: From Idolatry to Immorality

[26:48–27:57]

• The golden calf debacle quickly leads to revelry and moral collapse.
  • “This is a party. This is an orgy. This is burning man.” — Zach [26:48]
  • “Once we take that step out of idolatry, immorality is right around the corner.” — Phil [26:53]
• Moses’ response is both dramatic and disciplinary—he burns and grinds the idol, mixes it with water, and forces the Israelites to drink the bitter concoction as a consequence.

Moses’ “Hissy Fit” and Leadership Lessons

[29:11–30:49]

• The group humorously describes Moses’ reaction as a “hissy fit” upon seeing the idol worship for himself, breaking the tablets in fury, yet later interceding for the Israelites with God.
  • “He threw a big old hissy fit. He did.” — Phil [29:30]
• The tension between God’s holiness and His mercy is teased out: God tests Moses, and Moses pleads for the people, showing leadership is about intercession rather than mere enforcement.

God’s Glory, Human Limitations, and the Veil

[29:46–41:07]

• Moses’ radiant face after encountering God becomes a metaphor for proximity to holiness—so bright he must wear a veil.
  • “His face is like radiating the glory of God.” — Zach [35:49]
• Paul’s writings in 2 Corinthians 3 are brought in to contrast the “ministry of death” under the Law (old covenant) with the freedom and glory of the Spirit (new covenant).
  • “Will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory?...We all, with unveiled faces, behold the glory of the Lord.” — Zach [39:45]
• The physical veil symbolizes both the fading nature of the old covenant and the greater, lasting glory brought by Christ.

The Presence of God & Life by the Spirit

[44:42–47:35]

• The group underscores that, for believers, God’s presence is now intimately available via the Holy Spirit—our bodies are temples.
  • “You realize that all of you who are Christians in here are carrying God in your body?” — Quoting Francis Chan, Zach [46:31]
• They connect this to the essence of all commandments: loving God and neighbor, empowered by God’s presence within us.

Final Takeaways: Faith, Leadership & Continuity

[41:07–47:57]

• Faith, not rule-following, is the throughline of salvation, tying Old Testament believers to Christians today.
• Moses’ inability to enter the Promised Land is discussed as both a sobering lesson and a reassurance of God’s plan beyond individual leaders.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Part of what sin is—it’s unnatural. This is...it's unnatural to have a...” — Zach [01:44]
• “This is your golden calf, John.” — Christian [01:02] (as John Luke brings in the bearded dragon)
• “You can't build something good enough for me… I’ll provide [the altar].” — John Luke [10:05]
• “If I'm worshiping something that my hands have made, then ultimately, what am I worshiping? Myself.” — Zach [22:40]
• “Once we take that step out of idolatry, immorality is right around the corner.” — Phil [26:53]
• “He threw a big old hissy fit. He did.” — Phil [29:30] (on Moses and the tablets)
• “We all, with unveiled faces, behold the glory of the Lord...” — Zach [39:45] (quoting 2 Corinthians)
• “You realize that all of you who are Christians in here are carrying God in your body?” — Francis Chan (quoted by Zach) [46:31]

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Episode Structure & Timestamps

• [00:42–03:40] — John Luke introduces Commander the bearded dragon; team riffs on reptiles, animal phobias, and creation.
• [09:05–13:19] — Deep dive into Exodus 20: building altars, God’s standards versus human achievement.
• [15:36–24:18] — Moses’ absence, Israel’s rapid slide into idolatry, psychology of sin and self-reliance.
• [26:48–27:57] — The debauchery and discipline after the calf; Moses’ severe response.
• [29:11–30:49] — Moses’ “hissy fit”; leadership, testing, and intercession.
• [35:49–41:07] — Moses’ shining face, the veil, and Paul's interpretation in 2 Corinthians.
• [41:07–44:42] — Succession and legacy: Moses, Joshua, Rahab, and the thread of faith.
• [44:42–47:35] — Holy Spirit’s indwelling, our bodies as temples, and the culmination of the Law in love.
• [47:35–end] — Wrap-up, teaser for upcoming studies on David, gratitude for listeners, and reminders about Unashamed Academy.

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Tone and Style

The episode is a mix of warm Southern camaraderie, biblical depth, playful banter, and heartfelt faith. The hosts balance humor (especially around John Luke's exotic pet) with earnest, accessible teaching, making the themes of Exodus tangible for daily Christian living.

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Useful for Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

This summary covers:

• The episode’s teaching arc from quirky animal anecdotes to deep biblical exegesis.
• Theological and practical takeaways on idolatry, God’s presence, and spiritual transformation.
• Memorable relational moments and insights about faith and family.

Listeners will appreciate the way the Robertsons relate ancient scripture to modern life, how quickly humans can replace God with lesser “certainties,” and the reminder that God’s real solution is His steadfast presence, now living within those who believe.

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Next episode: A focus on King David, with continued guidance from Dr. Jackson.

Transcript

[Phil]

I am unashamed.

[Zach]

What about you? All right. We're back in our Exodus. Studied. Missing one guy who stepped out. Hunt do what?

[Christian]

Yeah, just missing one guy.

[Zach]

Yeah, we're missing one guy. One guy named John Luke. Maybe he'll tell.

[Phil]

John Luke is always a little flaky.

[Zach]

Well, we're always breaking the fourth wall. Yeah.

[Phil]

This is Joe Blue. Blue.

[Zach]

It's our Friday with Hillsdale episode. We are going through the book of Exodus. If you are not taking this course with us, you are missing out. So stop what you're doing, go back and go to unashamedforhillsdale.com. take all of the Exodus courses. We're in the very last part where we're going to talk about the glory of God. There he is.

[Christian]

Come on in.

[Zach]

John Luke has now joined us with this.

[John Luke]

Everyone, meet Commander.

[Christian]

Commander.

[Zach]

What?

[Christian]

What's on his face?

[Zach]

I feel like. I don't know if I like this. What's going on here? John Luke, if you're listening, this is coming in a reptile lizard, which I don't like the whole.

[Christian]

This is your golden calf, John.

[Phil]

This is his. Whoa.

[Zach]

He's. I don't think he's half commander.

[John Luke]

He does. Yeah.

[Phil]

He's sensing something from my side of the table.

[Zach]

I don't like what's going on here. This is.

[John Luke]

He might have eaten a spider. This feels a bearded dragon.

[Zach]

A bearded dragon.

[Phil]

Dragon.

[Zach]

Oh, you see that tongue? What's hanging out of his mouth?

[John Luke]

He'll bite and stuff. He'll lick you for sure. He might bite you.

[Christian]

He will lick me.

[Zach]

Is he aggressive?

[John Luke]

He's not aggressive, but Just lick me. He's never bitten me, but he might bite. Christian.

[Christian]

Just lick me.

[Zach]

Do you enjoy this animal?

[Christian]

Just lick me.

[John Luke]

He kind of just chills. He's just kind of sits in there.

[Christian]

Just lick me.

[Phil]

Ow.

[Zach]

What do you think he's getting? I feel like this is. See, part of What? Sin. Sin is unnatural. This is. It's unnatural to have a.

[John Luke]

This is part of creation. It was the stewarding. Creation.

[Phil]

The bearded dragon is in the reptile family.

[Zach]

How fast are these things?

[John Luke]

Pretty fast.

[Phil]

Run around?

[John Luke]

Yeah. He'll follow you around. Like if I put him on the floor of my office, he'll follow me around.

[Zach]

Some coffee.

[Phil]

Probably don't let him live.

[Zach]

Sponsored by hills.

[John Luke]

Don't want it.

[Zach]

You want some coffee?

[John Luke]

No, he doesn't like it. Yeah, it could be a girl, too. I actually have no idea.

[Christian]

Are you serious?

[John Luke]

I adopted him and this. Said he was a boy. Named him Commander.

[Phil]

So he was a Rescue.

[John Luke]

He was a rescue.

[Zach]

Yeah, he rescued bearded dragon.

[Christian]

He was a rescue bearded dragon.

[Zach]

Where's the beard? There's no beard.

[Phil]

Well, you see the little.

[John Luke]

Yeah.

[Phil]

When he gets underneath.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Phil]

He'll.

[John Luke]

He'll.

[Zach]

What's hanging off now?

[Phil]

That thing has to have some kind of O. If we went back, like, he's got to have some DNA from some.

[Zach]

I don't like old school.

[John Luke]

No. Yeah, he's old school.

[Christian]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Y' all want to maybe.

[Phil]

Okay. John Lake's brought in. Hey.

[Zach]

Hi.

[Christian]

Bye, Commander.

[Phil]

Not a fan, Commander.

[Zach]

What do you think about that?

[Phil]

Could he be our mascot?

[Zach]

No, he could not be our mascot.

[Christian]

I think he could be our mascot.

[Zach]

I do not like reptiles at all.

[Phil]

Hey, what is it about? Is it going. Go back to the garden? I mean, here we are in Genesis and Exodus.

[Zach]

I felt. I felt an extreme level of anxiety.

[Phil]

Yeah. It's something. Yeah. I didn't like.

[Zach]

You have any.

[Phil]

I would never have touched that. I wouldn't do what Griston was doing. Huh.

[Zach]

Did you have to, like, bring yourself to touch that? The lizard?

[Christian]

No. Well, if you like his. He's like. It's like his skin is. It's, like, pokey. It's. You know, it feels.

[Zach]

What I'm saying is, is. Was there anything in you that was.

[Christian]

Like, I don't want lizards and snakes are different. If that was a snake, I would not have been wanting to fool with it.

[Phil]

But John Lee probably likes. Do you like snakes, too?

[John Luke]

Yeah, I like snakes, too.

[Phil]

Yeah. Does it create a reptile?

[Zach]

Is there anything in you when you see it, though, you're like. You're kind of trepidatious about it, or you just like.

[John Luke]

I mean, there's a healthy fear of wild animals, but he's not a wild animal.

[Zach]

There's nothing. This just feels like I'm picking up a. A hamster and petting it.

[John Luke]

Yeah.

[Christian]

Or like.

[John Luke]

I'm more scared of a hamster than of the bearded dragon. Of the lizard.

[Christian]

Yeah. I don't. I don't like snakes.

[John Luke]

Mary Kate did ban him from the house, so I feel like that's why he's here.

[Zach]

I honestly feel like that's what the. That's the kind of stuff the Egyptians were into. They were in the pet snakes, whether.

[Phil]

It was the bronze snake.

[Zach]

That's what I'm saying. Yeah. You look at the. The evil. All the reptile features of. Of a lot of their old. Even, like, the things that Favreau would wear look like reptiles.

[Phil]

We got to remember, too. So Jay spent two podcasts on unashamed talking about the history of the chicken. So. So we've had a lot of cars.

[Zach]

We've had. But. But that was the first. We never had a live animal on the podcast.

[Phil]

That is a version you have now broken. I don't. There's a fourth wall and then there's. Whatever that was there is that. We just broke that down. Wait till I tell Jay's tomorrow we record unashamed. That bearded dragon licking your.

[Zach]

You going to drink that coffee?

[Phil]

He didn't lick it.

[Zach]

He.

[Phil]

I was. He licked it. No, he. He tried. He didn't quite get there.

[Zach]

He didn't get on the.

[Phil]

He didn't lick the co.

[John Luke]

He didn't lick the co. Just in.

[Phil]

Case I'm going have to agree Carry like diseases go. Let's go back.

[Zach]

And.

[Phil]

He short.

[John Luke]

I.

[Christian]

He short.

[John Luke]

I've got some pets.

[Zach]

A lizard tongue over there. He short licked it.

[John Luke]

I had so many wild pets. Was growing up though.

[Phil]

I remember that night.

[John Luke]

Crazy squirrels. And he was like.

[Phil]

He was a. Who was the guy that used to be on the late Ace Ventura. Well, always comes back to these. Adam Sandler. Those movies are funny. Ace Ventura.

[Zach]

Did you like Wayne's World?

[Christian]

It's pretty good.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Did you like Wayne's World?

[Phil]

I loved Wayne's World but I was a huge SNL when it was funny.

[Zach]

Which one was that?

[Christian]

Vacation.

[Zach]

I don't think I've heard of that one.

[Christian]

Yeah, like Chevy Chase.

[Zach]

Oh, Christmas vacation.

[Phil]

Vacation was like 20 years before. Yeah. So. No, I was talking about the guy. There used to be a guy that would be on all the late night shows started on Tonight show and he would be have exotic animals and he would bring them on the late night.

[Zach]

Was it Irwin?

[Phil]

No, that's this. That's the Steve Gator man. Yeah. No, this guy was Jim something and. And he was from the Columbus Zoo. I'll never forget it. From Ohio. And he would come on the Carson and he would always have some kind of crazy animal. And then Carson. They had the. Just what we just did.

[Zach]

Well, we did it. We're just reopening.

[Phil]

You just did a new 40 years.

[Zach]

Ago classic TV right now.

[John Luke]

That'll be our new bit.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Well, you know your granddad and your father broke the mold on that whole apparatus when he. There was a duck commander video that came out in the 90s when they were doing. Y' all were doing the videos. And it's one of my favorite scenes just because it was so Phil and so hilarious. But he's got his AR15. And he's creeping through the swamps down here by where the hunt lands at.

[Phil]

We actually showed this at the funeral.

[Zach]

I think we did show this. Yeah. And so he's creeping up on this. There's this big cottonmouth water moccasin that's coiled up around the base of the cypress tree and feels like. But he's talking like. He's whispering. He's like, talking about the animal.

[Phil]

We're out here in the wilderness.

[Zach]

Out in the wilderness. And this is what you call whatever, you know, the scientific. Yeah, it's hilarious. And he's like. Then the crocodile man, he's talking about the crocodile hunter. And he's like, here. You know, he looks at the camera, he's like, you know the difference between me and the crocodile hunter? And then all of a sudden, he just loads an AR15.

[Phil]

The snakes just writhing with all these bullets going into it. You know, just a hail of gunfire.

[Zach]

I was like, classic Phil.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Zach]

The poisonous snakes were not. He wasn't too friendly to those guys, so. But you. You're. You're like Steve Irwin.

[Phil]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[John Luke]

Would you.

[Christian]

Would you try to pick up a cottonmouth?

[John Luke]

No. I mean, I've. I've killed a lot of snakes. That was actually with Bellfield. That was one of my main jobs when I was out there in the summer. We just drive around. He barely slow down and just shoot. You're just shooting from the. The back of the Polaris, just.

[Zach]

And when you were a kachiaka, probably, you probably had to, because you're running.

[John Luke]

Oh, yeah.

[Phil]

And it's a safe.

[John Luke]

No, I do. I kill one.

[Christian]

Wasn't there a coral snake at camp?

[John Luke]

Yeah, yeah.

[Phil]

Like, they're. They do have them here, but you don't.

[Zach]

Who else killed a snake? Yeah, the Lord and savior, Jesus Christ. That's true.

[Phil]

He crushed his head, but his heel was bruised.

[Zach]

If what we just said was, you guys, like, that's too far. It is biblical that if you. If you want to do what Jesus did, you got to be a snake killer.

[Phil]

Remember, unashamed for hillsdale.com.

[Zach]

All right, so you wanted to set it up because.

[Phil]

Let me set it up.

[Zach]

We left out the golden capsule.

[Phil]

So we came. We came to the. We just briefly went through the ten commandments. Obviously, it was an important moment, but we understand the nature of it. So he gives these commandments and then he says something interesting after he does this. And even Moses says to the people in verse 20, where are you at? What?

[Zach]

Chapter 20.

[Phil]

20. 20. Do not be afraid. God has come to test you so that the fear of God will be with you, to keep you from sinning. Which is interesting that he framed it that way. The people remained at a distance, of course, while Moses approached the thick darkness where God was. So here's what he tells him in that he says, tell the Israelites this, who has already given them the law. You have seen for yourselves that I have spoken to you from heaven. Do not make any gods to be alongside me. So he's going to stamp out this idea that somehow there's a coexistence of gods and him. Do not make for yourselves gods of silver or gods of gold. And remember, they just had a fresh influx of silver and gold from their plunder out of Egypt.

[Zach]

All blessing, by the way.

[Phil]

All blessing. Make an altar of earth. And then he goes into the. You were going to mention that part.

[John Luke]

Yeah. Well, then he goes into, if you make me an altar of stone, you shall not build it out of hewn stone, for if you wield your tool on it, you'll profane it. And I think what he's saying here is, I will provide the altar. He's going back to when they're in Egypt and saying, there, you built. You can't build something good enough for me. You can't make something out of bricks or stone that's good enough to sacrifice. I'll provide.

[Phil]

You'll still want to take the credit.

[John Luke]

You'll take the credit.

[Phil]

Dr. Jackson made a point about it. One of the stones it could. I mean, one of the tools it could have been was a sword, remember? And he talked about that idea that somehow you're wielding that by your hand. But I think your point is even bigger, Dan lut, that it's any two. It's anything you would fashion by your own hand. He said, when you build an altar, you build it out of what I made.

[John Luke]

Right.

[Phil]

Not out of what you made, which was the point of that. So that's going to set up.

[Zach]

Well, also this, too, I think it's also when he talks about this altar, it's interesting. Look at how he ends in verse, how he ends chapter 20 about this altar that he instructs them to build. And every place where I cause my name to be remembered. There we go again about the whole idea of the name of Yahweh. Right? That's the continual theme here. Everywhere, every place where I cause my name to be remembered, I will come to you and bless you. So you see, again, this is temple language, where God and man meet. If you make me an altar of stone. You shall not build it out of few stones. For if you willed your tool on it, you profane it. And then the last part is interesting. And you shall not go up by the steps to my altar, that your nakedness be not exposed on it. And you read that, you think, man, there's something here that's reminiscent about Genesis chapter 1, 2, and 3, that whenever they sinned for the first time, when they actually ate the fruit, when they left the temple, so to speak, and they ate the fruit for the sake of the fruit, what was the result of that? That they realized they were naked and they ran and hid. They were naked and ashamed. And so there is the idea that God's presence now post sin, your nakedness can't be in front of him. That's why whenever God saw them in the Garden of Eden and they said, he said, what are you guys doing? Well, we were naked, so we hid. And then his question was, who told you you were naked? Did you eat the tree that I told you not to eat of? And they're like, well, then they get in the whole blame game. But notice what God doesn't do in Genesis. He doesn't say, well, guys, it's okay to be naked. I made you that way. He did make them that way, and it was okay to be naked. But God doesn't say it's okay to be naked. What he does instead, he says, you're covering will not be suitable. And so he sheds the blood. Then you have sacrifice, and then you have a new covering that God provides. But he does at least God acknowledges you need covering now. Now you need covering. And so you're seeing.

[Phil]

Because you're seeing something differently.

[Zach]

You're seeing it differently now, and you're rebellious. And so the same thing's happening here is he's just continuing that idea of covering. He's acknowledging that this is not going to work the way it is. You got to have covering, but this is the way it's going to work.

[Phil]

Even know this. Again, so many of these things are illustrated in your own family.

[Zach]

You.

[Phil]

You guys have little ones. I mean, there's a point in time where your little ones, they all bathe together and you change them and they run around naked. And, you know, it's just. They don't ever think that about it. You don't think anything about it. It's a house. It's a house full of kids. And then there's some point in time where all of a sudden that's not okay anymore. And Nobody. It's not like it's on your calendar. It's not like it's March 25th, you know, or whatever. It's just like, you know, at some point, do you like that color? So, you know, there's just a time where it's different. It changes. They change. They begin to grow, or even they will start feeling self conscious. Some kids are more modest than others. That's the idea. That's kind of the human condition ever since the garden. So we even understand that in our own families, we realize that. We see that this happens. What changed from when it was just a little innocent kid. Right Now, Pearl, my youngest granddaughter, the other day she wanted to go swimming. I said, well, do you have a swimsuit over? And she's seven. And she said, no, but I can still skinny dip. And I said, what? What do your folks think about that? She said, they don't care. I said, all right, I'll be up here on the porch. And she goes out there naked as a jaybird, gets in the pool for 15 minutes, think a thing about it. Never thought a thing about it. She's still young enough to where she didn't imagine. And. But there will be a point in time, trust me, where you won't have to not tell her to do it. She would never do it. And so that idea somehow of that change in how we view things in your point was so well taken, because that's what we're beginning to see. This idea that they're starting to understand some things. It's just amazing how quickly they seem to turn it back one way or the other. Because you remember Moses goes up on the mountain to get all these instructions about the tabernacle, and that's what's happened in these ensuing chapters. But it's spread out over 40 days. But you think about it, 40 days is not a long. I mean, that's not super long. No, I mean, you know, they've been generationally enslaved. And then all of a sudden, it's like when the people saw that Moses was so long in coming down, this is in 32, from the mountain, they gathered around Aaron and said, come make us gods. I mean, he been up there in 40 days.

[Zach]

Yeah, all you forget. He said, man, you forget quickly.

[Phil]

I mean, that's a month and 10 days. And it's like. And now all of a sudden, it's like, yep, so we're off of the whole, you know, Elohim and God Almighty. Exactly right. We're off of that now. And then it's like this. As for this fellow Moses, who brought us out of Egypt, we don't know what happened to him.

[Christian]

Well, the crazier part about them wanting other gods is that when they make the calf, then Moses comes down and Aaron's like, I don't. They just threw it in the fire like that. To me, that's the crazier part versus the people being like, we want other gods.

[Phil]

You know, I wasn't sure what to do. They gave me all this gold. I thought, I'll just get rid of it in a fire. And the next thing you know, it's like, it's a big calf.

[Zach]

Well, when the covenant's confirmed, when Moses is on Mount Sinai, Moses comes down because God gives him the instruction, and he gives them the book, what's called the Book of the Covenant, and he gives them the Ten Commandments. Moses comes down and he gives all this to the people. And I love their Response in Exodus 24. I think they say it twice. I know they said it once because I'm reading one, but I think they said it twice. All the people answer with one voice. You think, man, these people are all in accord. And they said all the words the Lord has spoken, we will do. And I think they say it again down here as well. They say all the words of the Lord that the Lord has spoken, we will do. So they're committed to the obedience until they weren't. And literally for just a short period of time, but they were all in at first because they're seeing that cloud and they're seeing that power of God, and they're afraid because they're like, this is like a storm. The word is like that tempest or tempest rolls in, and it's like whatever is consuming this mountain, it is pretty powerful.

[Phil]

Which don't forget to sign up and take our course. Unashamedforhillsdale.com is where you go to get that. You made the point. We were talking in between podcasts Christian about motivation of love versus anything else, really. And how that's from a God perspective. That's always his first motivation. But it shows you how powerful the motivation of fear is in this context. Or even anger. Because think about every time the election rolls around, what do you start seeing? Negative ads. People got to get mad. You got to hate the other party. That's kind of. We drive into this fear, anger. That's how win it's success. But we realize the toxic nature of it, because then once. Then you can't govern because we've already. We hate those guys. And it works either way. And so you see here, this idea, they were motivated by this fear. As long as the fire there and the smoke, the minute Moses goes up and having a little convo with God, it only takes 40 days. And it's like our fearless leader, this fellow.

[Zach]

Who's he and what is Moses doing? Whenever they're. You got to keep in mind Moses is receiving instruction on building a tabernacle.

[Phil]

So that God will not be there.

[Zach]

So they're up there, like, this whole thing, Moses, he's being with God. God's like, okay, here's what we're going to do. I'm going to come live with y', all, and I want you to build me a room. And it's going to look like the garden and all these different things.

[Phil]

Here's what the priests are going to do. Here's what they have to wear.

[Zach]

You're getting the way to get up the mountain to be with God. He's giving you the way. This is how. This is the way. And while God's providing the way, the people are conspiring to abandon him and go foreign gods and build a golden calf. You can make this stuff up.

[John Luke]

I was gonna say I like how Aaron is. He's like, I'm a priest, and I'll do whatever it takes. God says, we're gonna drink this water. Sure. People want an altar, I'll build it. He's like, whatever y' all want. I'm the priest.

[Zach]

He's like, yeah, let's go for it.

[John Luke]

Let's go for it.

[Phil]

Keep your head down and don't get noticed.

[John Luke]

Yeah, don't get noticed. I got all the religion going on.

[Zach]

He's like, well, you've seen that.

[John Luke]

We'll just add that in.

[Zach]

You've seen that in business before, right? You ever been around business that's like. Like, just keep your head down.

[Phil]

Middle management.

[Zach]

Don't be too successful.

[John Luke]

Don't be.

[Zach]

You know, don't. But don't be too. Don't fail either. Just go unnoticed. Hopefully the boss, you know.

[John Luke]

Yeah, just don't let the boss.

[Zach]

I know you've seen it before.

[John Luke]

Yeah, I've seen that.

[Zach]

Yeah. I thought.

[Christian]

I thought one part. One part that Dr. Jackson brought up that I thought was interesting is because sometimes when I read it, it can be confusing. You know, the verses where, you know, like, for instance, when Moses is imploring to God on behalf of the people, then it says that God, you know, turns back or changes his mind. And it's kind of been like, you Know why to Moses somehow convince God to change his mind. He was kind of breaking it down. More so from the standpoint of it was actually a test. More so to Moses to seeing if it was more so. Test to Moses to see if Moses would implore on the people. Kind of different than, you know, Moses necessarily changing God's mind. Which I thought was an interesting take because I've always just read it as somehow. Yeah, somehow God. Somehow Moses just completely changed God's mind, which. Which could be true. But I thought his point was interesting of him kind of saying he's going to wipe them out and Moses kind of imploring on the people. More so as it's a test, you know, of God to Moses to see what he'll. What his.

[Phil]

Well, that's part of the test of sacrifice.

[Zach]

Yeah, I think it's part of the literary device that's used in scripture. Like God doesn't change his mind.

[Christian]

Yeah, I mean, God's out there.

[Phil]

He knows all things.

[Zach]

Okay, good point, Moses.

[Christian]

I forgot Moses. Yeah, you're right. I shouldn't do that.

[Zach]

No, it's more like a literary rhetorical device that the author's using, the Holy Spirit uses to make this accessible for us, because God does exist outside of space and time. And so when we start trying to think about God's knowledge as foreknowledge, all those big conversations, there's big ideas. We just honestly can't enter into understanding that because we're trying to contemplate something that's outside of our realm of existence, we can't. And if we could grasp that, then he wouldn't be much of a God.

[Phil]

Well, now. And you see the way this goes down. So he gives the Ten Commandments. The people say, that's good. As Zach said two different times, they confirm that we're all in. These sound like good. And why wouldn't they? They're great. We recognize God, we're not going to have idols. We're not going to do this. And then he adds those two things on after. Look, by the way, don't take your silver and gold and make it. And don't use a tool. And then look what happens in verse 4 of 32. He took what they handed him. He made it into an idol cast in the shape of a calf. So we're just violate, violate, violate. Fashioning it with guess what? A tool. So, I mean, it's like I gave you this. You said you were going to do it, and now we're taking. And now we're here. In this point, 40 days later, and we're doing exactly what you asked us not to do. And somehow I do think it shows that human beings tend to try to put something in their life when they're unsure. They need certainty. And for whatever reason, it made sense to them that certainty was in a golden calf. And they even say later in that text, the golden calf that led us out of Egypt.

[Zach]

Well, the reason why it provides certainty is because it's an illusion. But think about what this is. What is the significance of a golden calf? Well, they made it. So if I'm worshiping something that my hands have made, then ultimately, what am I worshiping? Myself.

[Phil]

Exactly. Which is back to the garden.

[Zach]

Go back to the garden. And we have this illusion or delusion that we're more sovereign than we are. I think I'm running my own show here. I think I am. I think I'm like, I've worked hard. I built whatever we built. You think you have until something happens, until a hurricane hits your hometown and you're like, whoa, all our best laid plans are just swept down the river in a moment's notice. And I think that's the. But we build these things because we look at this and we think, what kind of idiot would worship something that they made? But we all do it still. Like, this is the plague of man, is that we worship and serve the created things. Cell phone.

[Phil]

Which is why God said it. Which is why he said it right after he'd just given him the law. That's all good, that everybody can agree. These are good rules to live by. And if we were just going to pick out 10 things, that's 10 pretty good ones. And then all of a sudden, it's like, oh, and by the way, don't put something up that you've done and that you built. And then the first 40 days, we run into that. So it is our nature to tend to want to do that because we think it's certain. But you're right, Zach, It's a lie. And who's the liar from the beginning? I mean, that's what he does.

[Zach]

And the lies, it is connected with presence. Because what ultimately you're doing when you worship the things you created is you're actually denying a really important part of the puzzle. For example, if I built this table and then I started to worship this table that I built it, that I built, maybe I really did construct this with my own hands and all that. But what I didn't do was I didn't create this table out of nothing. I didn't say let there be table and there was table. I had to take stuff that was already in existence. It was already created. So really we don't actually create anything. We just take the creation and we can rearrange it and call it creation. But it's not the same way God creates. When God creates, he creates out of nothing. And I think that what we are doing when we worship idols, essentially, just to say I'm going to ignore the fact that the thing like the fruit that I'm eating to go back to the garden. I'm going to ignore the fact that actually this fruit was made by God. And so I'm going to eat it and pretend like God's not there. And the way that would maybe look in like a setting with kids, since we use our kids as an analogy a lot, is if my kids come down because everything God gives us is gift, the created world is gift from God to man. And so if my kids come down on Christmas day and they grab one of the gifts that I got for them and then they literally don't even acknowledge me, and they go up to their room to open this gift by themselves, and then they unwrap it, they open the gift and they start playing with the toy or whatever. You've missed the point. Like, the gift is, I gave you the gift, but I want to watch you enjoy it. You're going to play with it in my presence. That's the whole part of Christmas, is that we're doing this together. And so the idea here that you're seeing is this whole thing centered around presence because they're doing this while God is preparing a place to be present with them. They make the idol. And then Moses is the one who's kind of connected with God. And then we get to chapter 33, and Moses is like, I'm not going anywhere. If your presence doesn't go with me, Moses gets it. And to some degree, Moses gets it.

[Phil]

Well, and look what happens afterwards. They sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in revelry. I don't know what Yalls Version said in verse 6, 32, but whatever that was, it probably wasn't good. You know what I'm saying? I mean, this festival and the golden calf quickly turned into something.

[Zach]

This is a party. This is an orgy. This is burning man.

[Phil]

It instantly became immoral. And isn't that interesting, once we take that step out of idolatry into idolatry, immorality is right around the corner.

[Christian]

Well, I think you see, too here of Moses presenting. There's gonna be consequences for what you do. Cause he burns the calf, and then it says he grinds it and scatters it in the water. And then he makes the people drink the water. So it's like. It's not only, like, does he just do away with it. He's like, no, there's gonna be a consequence for what you just did. It makes the people drink this. Metallic, burnt.

[Zach]

It's so funny. Y' all's kids are so young, but when they get about 12 or 13, I do this all the time. I'm like, I'll throw out a consequence. And I'm like, you're grounded for one.

[Phil]

Week plus one more.

[Zach]

And I just. My anger will burn. And I'm like, and they've got a Dr. Pepper.

[Phil]

And you won't drink Dr. Pepper the entire time. That's Moses.

[Christian]

Moses is like, I'm gonna burn it. And he's like, and I'm gonna scatter it. Then you're going to drink it.

[Phil]

Oh, by the way, 3,000 of you are going to die. Does that happen, too?

[John Luke]

Some of you may die.

[Phil]

Oh, that's so funny.

[Zach]

This.

[John Luke]

I thought something Dr. Jackson said when he was on. I don't know if he said this on podcast or when we were talking, is about how the commandments, all 613 of them, were to bring the people closer to God. Like, each commandment. Now I'm saying my own thing I thought of after this. The commandments were. Each commandment is teaching you something about God and about the world. And the contrast between following God's Word in the form of these commandments and these laws versus following a physical idol. And I think that's what God is telling them is like, trust in my word and the things I'm telling you, not in anything you can see.

[Phil]

Right. No, I think that's really good.

[Zach]

That's a good point. Point.

[Phil]

And so it leads in, as you said, Zach, to the last chapter that he deals with, which is in 33, which was this idea of the glory of God sort of, you know, coming into frame here. And it's a preparation for what's going to happen with the tabernacle later, the temple.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Phil]

Because in spite of everything that we just said, this was a terrible kickoff. But Moses does come back. And it's so funny, because he's like, you know, again, trying to be defensive, and then he gets down there and he's furious, as Christian said, with him as well. But he realizes, yeah, he breaks the.

[Christian]

Tablets when he sees them.

[Zach]

Oh, yeah, he's not.

[Phil]

He threw a big old hissy fit. He did.

[Zach]

And by the way, if you want to learn more about this hissy fit, you can go to unashamedforhillsdale.com and register for this course on Exodus. And you can get as deep as you want into the hissy fit of Moses. That might be a good book, by the way. The hissy fit of Moses.

[Phil]

Yeah, that'd be a good sermon for.

[Zach]

Yeah, because he's not 100% righteous in all this. I mean, he. Obviously he has, like, some kind of. Because what do you.

[Phil]

Well, you remember God said up on the mountain, he's like. Because he knows obviously what's going on down in the valley. And he's like, you know what? I think we're just going to start with you. You get support, get your kids and, you know, however you got at this point. And we're just going to start. I mean, it's not like God hadn't started over a couple of times already. So it's like we're just going to start over. And again, it was the test. But Moses is like, nah, let's don't kill them. You know, like, we brought them out. We brought them this far. We can do it. And the thing about it is, I don't know if Moses knew it or not, but in that moment, if you raised up a whole new other group, we'd just be a few generations away from being right back here again. And the reason I know that is because here we sit, 6,000 years, five or six thousand after this happened, and we still got the same problem. We still got people that turn to idolatry, that leads to immorality, at least a divorce and difficulty and damage and destruction and drug addiction. I mean, it just hasn't changed. Changed. It's the same thing, same process.

[Zach]

But when God's glory, like, does come, I mean, you, you. I mean, you read this stuff and, you know, we, we. There's a song we would sing. Show us your glory.

[Christian]

Show us your glory.

[Phil]

Yep.

[Zach]

I sing a little bit different than that, but same, same one.

[Phil]

It's Bethlehem, isn't it?

[Zach]

I think it's passion and wonder and surrender.

[Christian]

It might be passion.

[Zach]

Sorry.

[Christian]

Passion.

[Zach]

Yeah. I gotta give credit where credit stayed. I think. I think passion did it. You looking it up. Yeah, Christian's gonna look that up for us, but show us your glory. And we. But like, I think we sing that song sometimes.

[Christian]

We think, man, holy ground.

[Zach]

Is it holy ground. Which is exactly what's happening here.

[Phil]

Right?

[Zach]

This is holy ground.

[Christian]

Holy ground.

[Zach]

I bet they wrote this out of. Out of Exodus 33. So we want God to show us his glory, but I think that that's kind of like, be careful.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Zach]

I mean, this is a moment of repentance. This is a moment of purification. This is a moment of consecration. This is a moment of. I mean, I actually think this is the posture that God wants us in. Because these people here, he's like, take it off, you stiff neck people. Take everything off and just come in as you are. And I think the gospel is this message right here, going back to the garden reference in the nakedness. I think so often in our humanistic framework, we want the gospel to be just a psychological cure for our mental insecurities and illnesses. And so we want to position it where God's looking at us. And he says, I know you think you're bad, but you're actually wonderful. And I think you're just amazing. But the problem is that we know we're not. And that's not the gospel. The gospel is that God sees you from his glory. And he says, I know you think you're bad. You're way.

[Christian]

I was going to say you're actually way worse than filthy rags.

[Zach]

It's like. It's a lot worse than you think it is. But here's the gospel and I see you there and I'm present. While we were enemies, Romans 5, Christ died for us. And think about that. While we were enemies, while we were at odds with God, that's. While we were sinners, still sinners, Christ died for the ungodly. And so you think about the entry point. It's that Genesis passage, right? God sees them in their nakedness, but to be known in your nakedness. That's where intimacy is born. Because now I don't have to perform for this God. Not because I'm amazing, but because I'm not. And God says, I see you there and that's where I died for you. So I come before this God and the goal is his real presence. I think God's glory is directly connected to his presence. And God's presence is that he is available, that he is there. He is the God who is there. So he first is that with himself, because he's triune and there's no adulteration inside the Trinity. And then with us there's adulteration, right? But God cleans that up. He covers that. And then there is that covering that allows for real, genuine, felt presence.

[Phil]

I Love the idea about the terrifying nature of this glory of God. To go along with the idea of how we sing about it so lightly. It's like, if so in your house now, especially with all the devices, every plug in my house has something else plugged into it and then a strip and then 14 things plugged into that. Right? Because everybody's got a device, and now everything has to be charged that way. The old days, we just did batteries that destroyed the planet like it was supposed to be. And now we've got all these rechargeables. And so you think about that. You love power when it's just that, a nice little 110 current, and even if you stuck your finger in there, it would just zap you for a second. But if you go outside and start following that back where it goes, it's terrifying. I mean, it will blow holes through your body. It happens to people. And so I think the movie, of all things, we talked about ten Commandments in the past, the movie, and it's a great old movie with Charlton Heston. But the movie that captured the terrifying nature of God was actually Raiders of the Lost Ark. Remember when they got this? So you had the Ark of the Covenant, and the Nazis are going to get it and take over the world, and they take the COVID off and all of a sudden they realize it can be terrifying. What would happen if somehow we tried to look at God? Remember melting? And I mean, this movie was. I'll never forget.

[Zach]

But they kind of got this right.

[Phil]

They got the idea of it, and even Spielberg got it, because in this thing was, don't look at whatever you do. Close your eyes. You know, it was only one that figured out was Indiana Jones, but all the other people looked and boom. And so it's kind of the same idea that you see here. And that's always indelibly on my brain, seeing that and imagining being in these kind of moments where you're seeing this power so closely that you can't look at it. It's too big for us.

[Zach]

Even Moses couldn't look at it.

[Phil]

He could not look at it. And he had as close a relationship with God as anybody that ever lived.

[Zach]

Which I think that is where the story of Exodus kind of ends, with this idea of you get morsels of God's presence. But it's not quite there, though, because of the fearful nature of it. And we don't really know the end of the story of this until we get to the New Testament, which I want to get to in a second in 2 Corinthians 3. But where Moses comes in here in verse 34. Well, first of all, Moses is kind of going back and forth with God up here on a lot of different things. But he's like, you say, I've got favor in your sight. Well, if I have favor. But Moses real appeal to God is, I don't want to go any further in this whole ordeal if you're not going with me. And that, I think, is the place that the Lord wants us to be is that we say, I cannot move forward if your presence does not go with me. Well, Moses does have this moment with God, and although he doesn't look at him face to face, because he says earlier, if anyone looks at me, they're going to die. So you have that whole thing. But Moses does have an encounter with God in verse 29 of chapter 34. When Moses came down from Mount Sinai with the two tablets of testimony in his hand. As he came down the mountain, Moses did not know that the skin of his face shone or shined was one way you could say that, because he had been talking with God. So just the fact that he was talking with God, his face is like radiating the glory of God. And Aaron with the high priest, and all the people of Israel saw Moses, and behold, the skin of his face shone, and they were afraid to come near to Moses. Now, so not only is God's glory fearful if you're near someone who's been in the presence of God, even to come near that person, they were afraid. They were like, whoa, what is going on here? But Moses called to them, and this is kind of what God does to us. And Aaron and all the leaders of the congregation that return to him.

[Phil]

And.

[Zach]

And Moses talked with them. And then after all the people of Israel came near, he commanded them all that the Lord had spoken to him on Mount Sinai. And when he had finished speaking with them, he put a veil over his face. And the reason why he put the veil over his face is so that they would not see what was to come. And that's what Paul kind of picks up on in 2 Corinthians chapter 2. You know the story I'm talking about how, don't you? We talk about this all the time in the podcast, but 2 Corinthians 3 picks up on this same thing. And he says here, he says, if the ministry of death carved into letters of stone came with such glory, that's the one that was on the Ten Commandments. It was carved in stones. But Paul calls it a Ministry of Death. You look at God, you die of.

[Phil]

Having the high view of what that was really about.

[Zach]

They knew.

[Phil]

Yeah, exactly.

[Zach]

I mean, he literally called this Ministry.

[Phil]

Of Death because you couldn't do it on your own.

[Zach]

It wasn't that it was bad.

[Phil]

No, it's because you can't do it.

[Zach]

Well. Yeah, you die. You know, I said this other day, if you don't think, when you think of yourself, you think, well, I'm not that bad. If you think that about yourself, the only way you can think that is because you don't know how good God is. You know how good God is, and then you realize that you don't even compare.

[Phil]

If you make that comparison, you're like always going to come up short.

[Zach]

But he says that this ministry came carved in letters of stone, came with such a glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end. That ministry was being brought to an end. Will not the ministry of the Spirit. So he's juxtaposing the ministry of the Holy Spirit with that ministry have even more glory? For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, which is what that ministry was, not that God was condemning them, just that it was highlighting their inability. That's what the law.

[Phil]

It was showing the need for a Messiah, for a savior.

[Zach]

Yeah, because what did Paul say? That the law was added so the trespass might increase. Otherwise that you would become aware of your inability at that Mount Sinai. And so that ministry is coming to an end. The ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all because of the glory that surpasses it. It. For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory. This goes back into that Hebrews 12 moment. This is it. Since we have such a hope, we are very bold. Not like Moses, who had put a veil over his face. We just read it so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end. But their minds were hardened. And to this very day, when they read the old covenant, the same veil remains unlifted. You say, well, why is that? Because only through Christ is it taken away. Yes, to this very day, whenever Moses is read, the veil lies over their heart. But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit. And where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, with unveiled Faces, behold the glory of the Lord are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord, who is spirit.

[Phil]

I love it. It's so powerful. Because I'm so glad for the apostle Paul because he's an expert in all things law, all things Old Testament, all things first covenant. And he sees it because in the moment we're reading this, it looks like the reason he had to veil the face is because it was just so overwhelming, they couldn't take it. Well, Paul was saying no, there was another reason why it was fading. It would not last. It would not work. We couldn't be there together. So the real reason for the veil was that it was obsolete. It wasn't going to hold. It wasn't going to last.

[Zach]

Because eventually his face wasn't glowing.

[Phil]

Exactly.

[Zach]

Yeah, because he was.

[Phil]

When he would move away.

[Zach]

Well, then what happens with the spirit? It's from one degree of glory to another. So when you're in the spirit, actually it doesn't fade. God's glory grows, by the way. Sign up at unto shame for hillsdell.com to check this out. But to me, that is the key.

[Christian]

Component that's being sanctified.

[Zach]

That's being sanctified.

[Christian]

Sanctification.

[Phil]

And again, don't confuse the idea that there were not people of faith here who believed in God, who obtained salvation the same way we do. Because when we get to Hebrews 11, you read that whole chapter about all these people we're reading about now, and it said, together with us made perfect. Then he goes into chapter 12 and shows the mountain. They believed in Yahweh, they believed in God. Now, they didn't understand what we know now later because they were all 1500 years before Christ. But the same faith that saves us, saved them. It's a belief in who God is that I can't do it. And there were many that did, including the foreigners. Because when you get later into this, which, by the way, we mentioned Joshua earlier, because he was down there fighting when they had. So he was kind of a military guy. But he also starts showing up here as almost like Moses aide, and like he's taking notes and he's actually there in the tent of meeting as well. And so I think Moses shows you something very important. You can't be a leader forever. You know, your time is going to come and your time is going to go. And so you always have to be preparing the next generation. And there was always that guy. And guess who was there, who had the faith to usher them into the land of Canaan. Because the bad news for the story that we don't get to and Dr. Jackson get to is that they wandered around out here for 40 years. There was 40 days. They Moses don't get in, and Moses doesn't get in either.

[Christian]

That's the craziest part. So after all this, Moses doesn't.

[Phil]

He's on a mountain looking at it. But the good news is, for those of you who say, oh man, that's just so unfair to Moses, he also got buried by God and he shows back up on the mount of transfiguration.

[Zach]

You make it to the mat of transfiguration, he got a win.

[Phil]

So it is interesting. But when you get all the way forward and they're going to conquer this land by God's power, this is going to be more of the same. But now it's a whole new generation being led by Joshua and Caleb. And so there's two guys that are going to be the new leaders. But right off the bat, when you get into Joshua 1 and 2, you see Rahab and you see the prostitute, and then she by faith responds. She gets saved, her family gets saved. And you already see this remnant philosophy just continue to carry through. And that's going to go all the way through the Old Testament and really lead us. By the way, I didn't realize I was segueing, but I guess I am. That she winds up in the lineage of David, which is our next study, because it's interesting that he becomes a part of that with foreigners in his background, just like Jesus had in his, which is interesting.

[Zach]

Well, John, Luke earlier you mentioned that we didn't have a lot of a robust teaching on the Holy Spirit spirit growing up. And that's a shame, because when you read this passage in Paul where Paul mentions this in 2 Corinthians 2, that it's the Lord of the Spirit that brings the transformation. I think that's again going back to the idea of the reason why that is to wrap a bow on it is because of presence. And it's only by the Spirit that God is going to live in human beings. Which wasn't that Jesus point in John 14 and John 16, when he basically says, I have to go, trust me, you want me to leave. Because if I don't leave, then he's not coming. And then we get that really robust teaching that the Holy Spirit is going to live in human bodies now. So Paul picks up on that theme. And just 1 Corinthians 6, Paul says your body is an actual temple of the Holy Spirit. So you can't get much more intimate than God living inside you. And I heard. What's the guy's name? Crazy Love? Francis Chan. Yeah, Francis Chan. I was at an event that he was at, and he spoke. And he was talking about Mother Mary, and he was like, what would you do if she sat down right next to you with God in her womb? How would you treat her? And he started painting this picture and asking this question. At first I was like, where are we going with this? Where are we going? But the more he sat in that, I was like, man, you would treat her with the utmost respect. You would treat her with so much. She's housing God in her body. And you knew that Jesus was in her womb. You would be like, oh, my goodness. Right?

[John Luke]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And then he said, do you realize that all of you who are Christians in here are carrying God in your body?

[Christian]

Wow, that's cool.

[Zach]

Your body's a temple of the Holy Spirit. Why do we treat each other the way we do? And so then you start to see when Jesus sums up the whole law, says, love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. And the second one is, love your neighbor as yourself. So all those laws that we're given right here, they all can be summed up just love God and love each other. And that's enabled to us through the Spirit.

[Phil]

And the passage you read in Second Corinthians is a picture of the deposit given us as believers in the Holy Spirit as a glimpse of glory, eternal nature now that resides in us. And the Bible says we're going to be like Christ when he comes back that final time. We will be like. We will be in the great resurrection. So it is that beautiful picture now that we're looking. And so we're in that last fruit framework of everything that is study, you know, that's why it's so big, because you see all the beginning points of how it came forward.

[Zach]

So what's the name of God again?

[Christian]

I will be there, however. I'll be there. Ayer Usher a. Something like that.

[Phil]

It's impressive.

[Christian]

Sorry, Dr. Jackson, if I botched that.

[Phil]

We know your wife's got a good name. Well, this has been a great study. I've loved it. I've loved doing it with y'. All. I guess the next time. Time we get back together, we'll.

[Zach]

We'll be in next week, we'll be in David.

[Phil]

Yep. See you then.

[Christian]

Well, actually, technically, next week we're still with Dr. Jackson.

[John Luke]

Oh, that's right. Yeah.

[Zach]

Next week we'll be with Dr. Jackson.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And then after that, it's gonna be David. Boys, Join us every Friday for Unashamed Academy, powered by Hillsdale College. Make sure to go to unashamedforhillsdale.com and sign up. It's no cost to you. That's unashamedforhillsdale dot com. And don't miss an episode of the Unashamed podcast by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the and choose all notifications to watch every episode.