← Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Ep 1246 | The Robertsons Condemn the Minnesota Fraud Scheme: “A Mound of Ashes”
00:55:41
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- [00:02]
A
I am unashamed. What about you?
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B
So welcome back to the Unashamed podcast. We spent most of the time in Proverbs 8 and then talking about the concept of godly wisdom, which is so ingrained. And I like that metaphor used about the grain of the wood. Same with beef. You know, there's grain in there and how you cut it makes a difference. But I, I was thinking about that Lisa, when she does her testimony and talks about her life prior to her coming to faith, she had no wisdom. And it was ironic and interesting that her, her lifeblood of like what she read as she was a brand new Christian and she's 33 years old, so it's not like she was a kid, you know, was Proverbs and psalms and, and she would read them every day and just like, just, just to try to understand a little bit more about who God is now that she had finally relented and sort of given up and submitted her life. But I was thinking there's so many such good stuff out there about Proverbs because Mark Moore, who's a guy that works a big church out in, in Arizona, he's kind of the, I call him the Bill Smith of the Christian church because he's super sharp, a great teacher and a great concept guy. And I read all of his enough. But he's got a book, he has these things called Core 52 and it's like a weekly Bible study. And he just did one on Proverbs and it's outstanding. I want to recommend that to people to look. And also Sadie last year came out with a devotional book out of Proverbs, which is also excellent. So this concept you brought up about wisdom was spot on. But it's also, there's some funny stuff in there. Solomon had a bit of a sense of humor as well, which I love.
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A
Well, I mean, life is difficult and we didn't really, you know, we, we talked about how Ecclesiastes comes at it from a little bit different angle because life throws you curveballs and.
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B
Right.
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A
You know, he's like, it's all like smoke. I mean, you're trying to grasp it and the speed of it is so quick.
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B
Well, you're talking about a man who had a thousand wives. So.
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A
Well, and Proverbs was written not only by Solomon, you know, there are other writers in that, which I do think it's representative of. You know, that Proverbs 8 tying it to the human world is so profound. And I do think it is a blueprint designed by God. And you see that all through throughout these from chapter 10 through 30. It's just these little sayings and almost riddles, but it shows you how deeper wisdom is. And I had a few interesting ones that I wanted to read and I just thought before we make that segue because ultimately, you know, to be successful in life you either got to develop some wisdom or find somebody who has wisdom and get his opinion. And I think it's all linked to ultimately why God gave us a counselor who is God, the Holy Spirit in us. And I really think it will bring clarity in your daily actions, which is why Jesus said wisdom is proved right by our actions. So here's a few Proverbs 14, 4 which states where there are no oxen, the manger is clean but abundant. Crops come by the strength of the ox. You're like what? So here's the thought. So just to illustrate on how you think if you don't want to go out there, which a part of any venture, there's got to be sacrifices, there's got to be grit, there's got to be sustained things that you don't want to do to be successful. And you're like, well I tell you what, I would love a clean manger. And you're like, well what does that mean? That means you don't have to go out there and shovel up poop every day and fool with a stinky ox. But guess what, you get no crops. Now you can sit there in the basement of your parents house and say well I don't have to clean this up, but you don't have anything. You know, and this is not so much a moral issue as it is just talking about what it takes to be ambitious and to work and to do the things you don't want to do. And I just, I don't know if you have any thoughts, but it just.
- [04:49]
B
Well it is funny since you said that I had not don't remember that proverb. That's very funny. But it took me back to my childhood when from the Blind movie when we lived behind the bar. And so I was very. Jace was just a baby and I was only like 7 years old. But mom or dad, I guess it was dad probably decided to do a chicken coop behind our little trailer. And my job was to have to go out and get the eggs and clean out the poop. Well, I hated, I hated the chickens, I hated the eggs, I hated the poop the most because it's a terrible job. But it's really funny. You fast forward now. I'm 61 years old and I can only eat fresh eggs, and so I'm not having to deal with a poop. But Joe and Christine Conjimi do Jersey Joe because they have chickens. But it's interesting when you look at it from a different perspective. When you love farm fresh eggs, you realize there's going to be poop involved. It's just that's what happens with chicken coops, you know. But someone has to deal with that if you're going to get that delicious, fluffy egg.
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C
I think there's something to the egg where if you wash the egg, you actually, if you. I'm gonna wash all this filth off of it that somehow they won't preserve. They won't preserve. You could take an egg and out of the coop and leave it on the counter for several months. I think I'm right in this. And it was true. Outside the fridge. But you wash it.
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A
All my eggs have poop on them when I get them out of the box. And I'm like, how could something this great be. Be so close to something so terrifying?
- [06:27]
B
Yes, exactly.
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A
Now, look, all these things were just. Which led to this conversation was embedded from God's wisdom in the creation of this planet.
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C
That's true.
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A
And you see it all. We don't ever talk about this, you know, as even evidence of God, but it's evidence in your life. And there are ways to think, because we didn't talk about this on the last podcast. But a lot of Proverbs is about this whole idea that Jesus really zeroed in on. What when you think you're wise and you've deceived yourself just because of your success. Which leads me to another proverb which is about this skill set, which is what I was saying. We have this idea of wisdom being just something that is learned, but it's also skill and work and things like that that our English word for wisdom doesn't necessarily embody. There was some story that I can't find now, but where someone got a bunch of woodworkers and they called them wise, and some of them were women. And I don't remember where the story.
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B
Is in the Bible.
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A
I'm sure someone is thinking of that. But he called them wise not because they had studied philosophy. They were just really good at working with wood. And so in that vein, Proverbs 22:29 says, do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve kings, he will not serve before obscure men. And the thought being people in their day, the king is the King, if you're really good at something, they're going to find a way to find a job for you. It doesn't matter where you went to school. And just, you know, if you're just good at it, good at what you do. And it made me think of verses like in Colossians 3, which I think that really ties wisdom all together in Jesus. It's like whatever you do, you know, you work at it with all your heart as. As you're working for the Lord and not for man. And there's wisdom in that.
- [08:36]
C
Well, one definition I read of wisdom that said that wisdom is skill, participation in God's life, giving order of reality. And I really like that because it's like a. It is. It's participatory, which is what we've been talking about this whole time in First John. It's participatory. And it's another way of saying to have wisdom is honestly just to operate in reality. Like to be rightly ordered into the way that everything really is. And the opposite of wisdom then would be to be participating in unreality, things that aren't actually true. It's not how the world actually operates. And I like that because it kind of anchors wisdom and something that's more. I'm trying to think of the word for this. It is what it is first. And then you get the ethic out of that. Then you get what you're supposed to do. But these things that God's commanded us to do, they're not like arbitrary commandments. I think that's one of the main things that happens in the book of First John as you get to the end of it. And he basically says, if you're. If you're looking at the commandments of God as like a burden, then you're not understanding what the commandments of God are. These aren't burdensome commandments. No, these are revelations of how reality works. And so if you operate in reality, then guess what? You're going to have a harvest. If you operate in the way the world really works, you're going to get eggs. Yeah, they got a little poop on them. You wouldn't have to shovel all that out. But man, when you eat those eggs, you're going to notice a difference between that and something that's processed. It's going to taste a lot better. It's going to last a lot longer.
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B
It's.
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C
It's just going to be better all the way through. That's what wisdom invites you into that life.
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B
Exactly. So Jase, we're pet owners. We know the drill. Our pets get sick, we load them up, we take them to the vet. You wonder, how much is this going to cost? We get the stress of the diagnosis. We walk out with an armful of meds. We cross our fingers, we hope it works. But here's the truth. Most of the problems start with the same issue. A weak immune system, usually from eating processed dates, dead food year after year. So our good friend Dr. Dennis Black came up with this product that we have here, if you're watching us, called rough greens. It's packed with live nutrients that work from the inside out. It gives your dog the foundation they need to thrive instead of just patching up the symptoms. We're asking you to get off the vet, visit, merry, go round and introduce America's number one dog supplement to your pet. Thousands of pet owners are seeing the difference. More energy, shinier coats, fewer problems. Jase, when you're little poochies. When it's time for their daily rough greens, how do they respond?
- [11:14]
A
I want to reward my guard dogs. They come in weighing at about £3 a piece, but they sound ferocious. And this is my reward to them because I want to take care of.
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B
Them and my pet. They're much bigger than Jase's dogs, but not near as ferocious. But they still love their rough greens and the rough chews. So we want you to check it out right now. You can try it yourself with a free Jumpstart trial bag. Just cover the shipping. Because the best doctor visit is the one you never make. Go to roughgreens.com use the promo code unashamed to break the cycle today. Ruffgreens.com use the Promo Code unashamed. I think that's exactly right. And that's my point in my just telling that story. Was someone without wisdom, immature as a child.
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A
I was.
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B
Doesn't understand that. And so the more you grow maturity and it's also a clarity thing. I love that you brought out the skill set proverb, Jace, because I was thinking about when dad always told his story, you know, he, he, he described a man, he as, he would say it, who's beating the air, you know, and he would do his arms, you know, he's beating the air. He was that man because he didn't have clarity. And so he, he went to school to do something but then he didn't, he didn't. That wasn't what he wanted to do. And so he fought his own. He was like that double minded man that's talked about in James 1 and so for 10 years there was this battle and he turned to alcohol and drugs and immorality and all these different things. And. And then he found clarity when he finally understood who Jesus was and he got that wisdom. Well, guess what? He changed his whole life plan as well and moved down to the Washtower river to fish the river and start building duck calls and had never built one. And so. And then he became the most famous duck hunter in the world and built our whole business and everything. You know, this launched our whole family. So it just shows you what wisdom has the possibility of doing. But only when we have the clarity to. As Zach, you just said to, to understand that we need that ethic in us. You know, we have to. It becomes a life changer.
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C
But the ethic is not a, it's not, I think the key that you'll, as you mature in the faith, the key is that the ethic becomes not like literally a rule to prove loyalty anymore. That's religion. That's what like the old school religion does. It's like do the thing so that you prove the loyalty. And, and what is what God's saying is, no, that's not how the ethic works. The ethic is actually, this is. These are things that you're supposed to do because this is like how you actually live an abundant life. This is actually how human flourishing occurs. And it's. And even that's not arbitrary. It's not like God said, here are the things that will make it awesome for you. No, everything that's being revealed is actually, it's a picture of himself. And so when we image God, then we actually have abundant life, because God is abundant life. So as we image our Creator, then we actually experience reality, which reality is actually not supposed to involve pain and suffering. The only reason why we have pain and suffering in reality is because we humans have actually chose to actually not participate in reality. And instead we're trying to make up things like we want to determine it for ourselves. And it's just that this never, never works out for anyone. When you try to determine reality for yourself, that never works out for any of us. And it leads to pain and suffering.
- [14:56]
A
Yeah, I love, I love though every time, you know, this conversation, you start noticing how many times you are saying about an abundant life or life, which is the way John started this. He is the word of life. And think about those passages in him. There's no death. He is life, not only life. Think about it when he said in John, I've come that they may have life and have it more abundantly. And so this goes in with this next One is Proverbs 21. And I just have a few random ones. Ones here. It says in verse six, a fortune made by a lying tongue is a fleeting vapor in a deadly snare. The violence of the wicked will drag them away, for they refuse to do what is right. And these are just concepts that you see in life, whether you believe in God or not. These are the things that happen. If someone built his whole fortune on lies, what happens in the end? We've seen.
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C
Have you ever watched that show American Greed? It's like they. It used to be on cnbc, and I think it's. Who was that? But they would take these stories of these Ponzi scheme guys like Bernie Madoff or whoever, but they would come up with these very sophisticated ways to accumulate a lot of wealth very quickly and deceptively. And it's like every time it ends up in just a mound of ashes, it all burns to the ground and they lose everything. And it always shocks me when I watch those because I'm like, there's like a point that we can get to which this is the scary part about sin because you'll watch how they developed into the leader of some kind of Ponzi scheme. And you're like, how did you think you were going to get away with this? This is going to come crashing down around you. And at some point you realize that the deceptive nature of evil is that I actually think that these people think that they're going to get away with it. At some point, you just give yourself over to this lie that you start even believing it. Like, I mean, it's. It's crazy what they think they can get away with, but it never actually works out. I mean, if you. I mean, just look at the long history of. I mean, the Enron scandal. I mean, it's just like one after another, you try these scandals out and eventually it all comes out.
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B
Well, even right now, Zach, there's a huge scandal in Minnesota about these fake daycare places where they just built, you know, billions of dollars out of taxpayers. And there were politicians that knew about it. Just all these people were a part of this scam. And of course now once the light of truth shines on it, you're right. I mean, now people are resigning, people are going to go to jail. All these.
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C
Tim Wallace, I mean, it was the vice presidential candidate in the last election, was running for. I think he was running for governor again. Pulls out of the race, I think I read this a few days ago. Race as a result of this. So you have this empire in. And so now not only are the people involved in the, in the daycare scandal, they're done. But also look at the repercussions and the, and then like, like you throw the pebble in the pond, the ripples go out. Like it just collapses around you and it just takes everybody around you with you. Good point.
- [18:17]
B
But you said, you said it when you. It's believe in that lie. And of course John's going to bring up that concept about deceiving yourself, and that's what happens. You know, we brought up. David, talked about him earlier. You know, David, he. He was so convinced in his sinful walk that he got into with the whole Bathsheba affair that when Nathan the prophet came to him and told him a story about another person, he was angry. I mean, he was like, this man needs to pay. And he. And he. It was him. And then Nathan looks at him, says, you are that man.
- [18:50]
C
Well, yeah, it's. It's like if you stick with just the basic truths of just reality, it just works out for you. I mean, I. One of the proverbs that I read, I probably read it four or five times a year to each one of my kids. And it's usually when we're, we're at an impasse where we can't really make progress. And they're. And they're just like, everything that I'm telling them, it's like I'm trying to put some kind of parameter on their life. And I'm talking about kids, like, not Max and Layla. They're kind of out of the house now, but I had this conversation with both of them. But there's a, there's this moment or moments in, in parenting where you're basically saying, no, you can't stay out there three in the morning or some, something like that. And it's like, this is common sense. What are you talking about? And then their response is always that somehow I'm infringing upon their well being, some, Some version of that. And that's how the gaslighting happens. They start to gaslight you while everybody else is doing it or whatever the things are. And I, and I. And when we hit certain points, I'm like, just sit down for a second and let me read something to you and I'll read Proverbs 1 where it says, hear my son, your father's instruction and forsake not your mother's teaching. And I'll just, like, sit in that for a second. Like, that's the commandment. But the question is, why? For they are a graceful garland for your head and penance for your neck, my son. And then it goes on. I'm like, guys, like my instruction. What do you think? Do you think that I'm like, man, how can we really make Bear's life horrible? You think that's what we're sitting around doing? Like, me and mom are like, man, let's just make it where he can't have any fun, where he's miserable. And. And after much debate, finally he'll say, no, I do think you guys want what's best for me. And I'm like, yeah, my instruction is actually the jewels that you'll wear around your neck. We actually are. What we're telling you is, like, this is the way to the good life. Like, we have the experience.
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B
We.
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C
We've made the mistakes, and we're pleading with you, don't make the same mistake that I made when I was 17 years old. But again, all we're really calling them into is reality. Like, just come live in reality. Don't like what you're doing is a pathway to destruction.
- [21:01]
A
You know?
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C
Then all those little sayings that parents have, they really. There's a lot of wisdom to them. Like my dad used to say, nothing good, or my mom, nothing good happens after midnight. It was kind of true, you know, really good in my life happened after midnight. I should have listened to her.
- [21:17]
A
Drive around after midnight, and you'll see that's just true. That's a fact. So in that light, I'll throw in Proverbs 22:6, where it says, train a child in the way he should go when he is old, he will not turn from it. And then later, in verse 15, it says, Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him. Which my parents focused on the word rod instead of the word discipline, which is why people don't like to hear that. But I'm like, I think the point was discipline as being a rot, Jase.
- [21:55]
C
They did mistranslate it. Our parents translated rod to leather belt. But I guess. I guess somehow there was a mistranslation there.
- [22:03]
A
But no, they experienced it. They missed it. But I think you see the hypocrisy even in these polls that people do, which I get it, you know, it's. You're taking a poll, you're not committing the act. But I tried to find the one I had read before where, you know, there was a certain amount of money where and it had what people would do for it. And I remember 7% was commit murder.
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C
Oh my gosh. Yeah.
- [22:29]
A
Which makes you think, I mean, just think 7%. I mean if your church holds a thousand people and you're like, how many people here would actually kill me for a sum of money? I mean, that's 70 people in there.
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C
Are said, we're ready to roll.
- [22:45]
A
Yeah, that's. I mean it shows you a lot about our life.
- [22:52]
C
So Al, I just got a text that said we have to plant trees down the perimeter of the property. Do you ever have issues with your neighbors?
- [23:00]
B
There's an old saying that said good fences make good neighbors. Maybe good tree lines make even better neighbors.
- [23:06]
C
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- [23:34]
B
Yeah, I have. We have a couple of palm trees and a couple of fruit trees that are doing fantastic.
- [23:38]
C
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- [24:31]
A
You know, I, I Found a poll just by looking it up here. And this was over 40% of Americans would leave their romantic partner for a million dollars. And you have look, multiple verses in here that we kind of chuckle at. But it's like, how did, how did this, this inspired scripture get all this right? And you know, some of them are funny, some of them not so much. But Proverbs 21:9 says, Better to live on a corner of the roof than share a house with a quarrelsome. W.
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B
Quote that one many times.
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C
That's true though.
- [25:10]
A
Verse 19 says, Better to live in a desert than with a quarrelsome and ill tempered wife. I mean, doubled down 10 verses later on it, you know. But then you also have Proverbs 7 and verse 27 where the song AC DC this is where they got it from. Proverbs. The adulterous woman. Her house is a highway to hell leading down to the.
- [25:39]
C
Yeah, I mean, well, let me just add a piece of advice if you're listening though. The one about the. The rooftop. What was it again? The.
- [25:47]
A
The better to live on a corner of the roof than share a house with a quarrelsome wife.
- [25:54]
C
So I firmly believe in quoting scripture. I think we should be ready to give an answer. But I warning of advice because. And I know a guy one time who quoted that verse to his wife in the middle of a fight and it did not go. I just want to warn any of.
- [26:09]
B
You guys, sounds like he may have been the quarrelsome wife. And that's it.
- [26:12]
C
I'm not going to say anything. Just be careful.
- [26:14]
A
The point is the wisdom of God and the blueprint. It's something that you should meditate on. But you see it come up all through life where you're exchanging one aspect of something for another. And Missy and I was talking about this last night, just even in the dating process, you know, I was young and immature. First girl I thought, oh, this is it. I was so in love and enamored until I met her parents and I thought, I got to get the heck out of here. I mean, you know, crazy. I just thought all my love completely vanquished because I thought she's going to grow up and if she turns out to be like either one of these people. I mean, I know crazy, but this is insane. I mean, that guy looked at me and basically threatened bodily harm for me just being in the presence of his daughter. Don't call me.
- [27:15]
C
The dad did.
- [27:16]
A
Yeah. I walked in and he said, come over here and sit down. I forgot the details because. But he was basically threatening my Life just for being here. And I thought, that's intimidating, okay? And then the mom was, like, amening, amening over there. And I thought, you know, this girl doesn't look near as good as I thought. I mean, because, you know, I was just met her. She looked good. I thought, okay, yeah, it's.
- [27:43]
C
There's some movie I saw. I hadn't seen the movie, but it's a clip on social media where the rapper 50 Cent, he's in the movie, and his daughter is going on a day, going to prom with a young gentleman. And so he walks in the house and in 50 cents, like, hey, man, let me.
- [27:58]
A
Let me have a.
- [27:59]
C
Let me holl at you for a minute. And he walks him into the garage. Well, then he walks in the garage, there's like 20 dudes that look like. I mean, just. Just bowed up with, like. I mean, just tattoos everywhere, and they're all.
- [28:10]
A
And he's.
- [28:11]
C
He basically tells the guy, you make a wrong move, and I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna cut your throat. Like, you're done. And then all these dudes are like, 20 grown men are just sitting there staring at this guy like. Like, you make. You mess. You disrespect this man's daughter, we're coming after you. And the guy's, like, paralyzed in fear. So maybe there's a little bit of good. And maybe he perceived you as a threat.
- [28:33]
A
Chase, I will confess my wisdom or lack thereof. The first time my daughter brought a boyfriend over, I did clean my gun in his presence, but I was going hunting the next day. But I do remember thinking, maybe I should clean my gun.
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B
Just.
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A
Even though I didn't know threats or anything, I just subconsciously, I wanted him to know I'm very good with weapons.
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C
We're capable.
- [29:04]
A
So was that wise, or was that me panicking? Yeah, you don't make it.
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C
You don't make an accusation. It's just more like, hey, son, this is what we use to kill birds with. This is called bird shot. Now this right here, this is what we use to kill big animals and. And intruders and people who hurt our family. It's called buckshot.
- [29:22]
A
Yeah, well, I think I proved my point by going through a few verses. I meant this to be the cold open, and this has turned into quite the revelation. But there's a couple more I want to get to. I did want to bring up Proverbs 21:30, because I do think this is the theme that says there is no wisdom, no insight, no plan. That can succeed against the Lord.
- [29:50]
C
I mean, that is encouraging.
- [29:53]
A
Mic drop. Yeah, but that is a mic drop moment for all human beings right there.
- [29:59]
C
That's the line where in the New Testament and the Old Testament for that matter, that we belong to a kingdom that cannot be shaken nor destroyed out of the book of Hebrews. I take a lot of comfort in that because people talk about, oh, no, the church is in peril. The church is this. Look, let me tell you something. You ain't got to worry about that, that you don't worry about whether God's going to lose. What you worry about is whose side are you on? We have no. God's plans will not be thwarted. God's will will be done. And I'm just going to make sure that I'm on his side instead of.
- [30:31]
B
The other side, which is another Hebrews 12 moments that because God's nature will not change. So he. He. He's. He's gonna. He's winning. And we want to be on the winning side.
- [30:41]
A
Yeah. So I want to get to. These are the sayings of ager in Proverbs 30. Now this guy, some of these are interesting, but I want to just give you a hint of it because I, I just can't help it.
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B
But he was the. He was the son of Ager. No, his son of Jacob, who was an oracle.
- [31:05]
A
Yeah. So let me just pick a couple here. I have a bunch of them, but I'm gonna pick a couple. So down in verse 15, which he starts off this, the leech has two daughters. Give. Give. They cry. I mean, they suck the blood at give. So you're like, why is that in there? You're like, well, am I a human leech? Am I always, you know, trying to take then. Then give or demand that you give me?
- [31:39]
B
You know, Such a good point. We all know leeches, you know, I.
- [31:44]
A
Mean, it's so Prof. Profound in life. And you can spot one in about five seconds. And then they validate it every time you see them. You don't want to be that person. But then watch where he launches to. There are three things that are never satisfied. Four that never say enough. The grave. The barren womb. Land, which is never satisfied with water and fire, which never says enough. So it's not just all about relationship. It's about in life. You just think about those four things. The grave, it just, it's consuming, you know, and anybody's ever had a counseling situation, you know, with someone who can't have children, I mean, it is consuming. It is devastating. And Painful land. Look, I've been in more land ventures that would not do anything with water. It just wouldn't either hold water or it wouldn't produce anything good. You're just like, you're just beating your head up against, you know, an invisible wall and fire, which never says enough. I just thought that was interesting.
- [33:04]
B
But.
- [33:09]
C
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- [33:25]
A
Full transparency. I own shares of Shopify in my portfolio and have for years.
- [33:31]
B
Yeah. So right here at Duck Commander they use Shopify and so obviously it works great for us.
- [33:36]
C
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- [34:36]
A
Then he this next One is verse 18. He says, There are three things that are too amazing for me, four that I do not understand. And these are about motion. So watch this. The way of an eagle in the sky, the way of a snake on a rock, the way of a ship on the high seas and the way of a man with a woman. What? Just wrap your head around this because look, think about it. When you see an eagle flying, it is almost impossible. You think, how is that eagle doing that? You know, they'll soar for miles. And you're like, how is it? How is he? Because an eagle is a big bird and it's weighty but he's seemingly having propulsion yeah, without he just. And when you look at creation and you're hearing this red and you're like, wisdom is there before the creation of the world. It's like the blueprint. You're like, I see somehow there is this life giving force that's able to pull this off. And even a snake. You're like, how is he, how is he able to move on that rock? Of course, you know, science tries to come up and stay up with God, but it just, it seems when you put all these things together, it becomes beyond scientific because you think, how does a ship, I mean, you've seen all these videos, I mean that people, they'll, they're just putting them everywhere. It's high sea and you see the ship just going through, going down in.
- [36:21]
B
A swale, swale and then coming out the other side of it and you're.
- [36:26]
A
Like, then it goes, you know, into something man created with something God created. And then forces of nature, what we call nature, which is God's creation, all coming together in one scene. That's hard for you to wrap your head around. And then it's the old, what is a man doing with a woman? And the way they act when they're enamored and in love and why is she even entertaining this? How did we ever get together and populate the earth? I think that's how is this motion continuing to happen and the difference in.
- [37:07]
B
The way men and women think. You know, dad used to always say, remember his saying was, he said when, when the Almighty made a woman, he made a strange creature. That was, that was his line talking about women in general. And, and because he couldn't figure out how they really thought and, and is really interesting. He was just honest enough to admit it. But you're right, Jay, that he puts that in this line of mysteries is so good. And it's still the thing that motivates people to this day. And you could probably. He could be going to come up with a hundred more of things that we just really can't wrap our minds around. But then we're part of this whole process to go through.
- [37:46]
A
Well, and then I think, you know, the book ends with this speech about a wife of noble character. And it's like, but who can find.
- [37:55]
C
Yeah, she.
- [37:56]
A
In which this gets back into Solomon, you know, had a thousand wives. And he's like, my conclusion is, wasn't any of them any good? You know, it's very sad yet. And then this beautiful story is shown about what this woman does. You know, her husband has full Confidence and likes nothing to value. She brings him good, not harm. And she's working and she's going throughout the city and community and keeping her house in order. And you just see this just work and sacrifice. And I mean, there's nothing like a sacrifice, especially of a mom who's to her husband. And somehow that is just kind of the moral backdrop of society, in my opinion. And he gets to the end and he's like, give her the reward she has earned and let her works bring her praise at the city gate. You know, we should throw a parade for some of these godly women out there.
- [39:00]
B
Well, and Lisa and I do our. If we do like a marriage weekend or multiple times to speak, one of our lessons we do comes from Proverbs 31, the passage you're talking about, Jason and Lisa basically speaks to the women in the audience back and forth with me, and mine's out of job 31. I've mentioned job 31 many times on the podcast because it's an ancient guy who was an upright man who loved the Lord and who went through terrible things because of what Satan had done to him, and he couldn't figure it out. And in his defense of his character, he tells about what it is to be a man. And so I deal with that with the guys and man, it's just that these are ancient things. To your point of this whole thing we've been talking about for a couple of podcasts that still are relevant and still matter, and we just tell current stories about it like we've done here today on the podcast. But I mean, the, the principles and the truth of it still matters and still shapes people to this very day.
- [40:04]
A
Well, the reason I wanted to bring that up, and I'm glad you brought up Job, is because these, these wisdom literature books, you know, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and we hadn't talked about Job, but I do think when you put those three books together, you. You kind of see this wisdom personified, this blueprint that, you know, is a metaphor for God's sister or maiden or wife or however you want to characterize it that is fulfilled in Jesus. Because you see in Proverbs, all right, here's just kind of the facts of life, and there are subtly the side that you need to be on. There is a hint of morality and decision making and work ethic and all that that goes along with it in Ecclesiastes, you know, when it throws you a curve ball. And at the end of the day, you know, sometimes you just got to fear God and trust him in the process. But then Job, I think introduces also this idea of the fallen celestial world and their involvement in this, which First John is heavily talks about, heavily about it, especially in First John 3, where Jesus came to destroy the work of the devil, which is such a profound. And it's found in 1 John 3. And I think you see in that case, life is full with the evil ones attacks and the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. And I think all those components come together. But God has given us that blueprint. He gave us his son to embody that blueprint. And he's now our advocate at the right hand of God. But he's also given us the Spirit to kind of make this happen in our actions of being like Jesus and reflecting who God is.
- [41:53]
B
Yeah, and you're right, it's, it's a familiar theme throughout all of the Word. This week I've been studying in James 1 because I'm preaching out of that Sunday. And you know, he. James brings up godly wisdom, as I mentioned on the last podcast. But then he also talks about the testing of faith and the things that are going to happen to you that you persevere through. And then he also differentiates that from temptation, which he also deals with in the, the first, first part of that chapter. And he doesn't. He puts it on us to make a decision about what we're going to do. Remember, he says each one is, is tempted when he is dragged away and enticed, but it's your decision. And then he lays out the steps that happen as a result of that. So even though to your point about the celestial world being involved, we don't want to just, we can't just say, well, yeah, Satan's evil. And so therefore I'm living a lifestyle of darkness that I'm gonna follow him. You make that call about who you're gonna follow.
- [42:52]
A
So it really is we're tracking because, you know, when he. And when James gets to chapter three, which this really embodied Jesus's style and his mission and in his sermons and about being from heaven and you're from the earth and going back to the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Well, when he gets to James 3 and I want to read this based on what you just said, verse 13, he contrasts this about wisdom. It says, who is wise and understanding among you, let him show it by his good life that this wisdom produce in actions, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. It is literally the blueprint that God created the world. But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such wisdom does not come down from heaven, but is earthly, unspiritual of the devil. So he's mentioned there. And then this profound verse that I've quoted hundreds of times in Bible studies for where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice. But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure, peace, loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. All these things Proverbs is about, but it's also all the fruits of the spirit. Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness. But then focus on that. There's the work. They sow in peace and raise a harvest of righteousness. So. And that, you know what comes along with that? Dirty mangers, you know, cleaning up that, that. Proverbs 14.
- [44:53]
C
It is interesting when you go back to the creation, I mentioned this on a previous podcast, but when they were told to work the garden, when he, when he put Adam and Eve to work the garden, if you think about, like the fact that he said to cultivate the earth, it leads us to believe that whatever was outside of the boundary of the garden was not the garden. It was wild. It was. There was. It was things that needed to be tamed. It was things that need to be cultivated. So you can think about everything. The whole earth was not the garden in the beginning, which I think is interesting because you think about, well, the, the blessing, when the Bible says that God blessed them and, and told them to be fruitful, multiply, cultivate the earth and have dominion over it. So that was actually work, was actually the blessing. And so in Genesis 3, when the, when the fall happens and the curse comes, the curse was not work. It was. Now you're going to work and it's going to produce thorns and thistles for you. And the curse was not fruitful multiplication. Now, you're still going to have, go into labor and you're going to have babies, but now it's going to be painful for you, for the woman. And so I think that that's a key because what we're returning back to with the story of Jesus and what Jesus accomplished and what he inaugurates in the kingdom of is, it is a restored, a restoration back to our identic purpose. And so if you go back to the first sin that happened in the garden was a sin that Adam and Eve, particularly Eve in the first part, she actually did not believe that the revelation of God was for her benefit. She actually thought that the commandments of God were somehow hampering her own human flourishment, which happened to be a lie. So she moves out of reality into unreality and that. So the pattern was really simple. She first minimized the blessing. She then went. When she. Because God, she said, we may eat, whereas God actually said, you may eat freely. So she took what God said and she minimizes it, which was the blessing, she makes it smaller. Then she minimizes the judgment, lest you die, where God actually said, you shall surely die. Not lest you die, no, you will die if you do this. So she minimizes the judgment, and then she maximizes the prohibition. She makes it much more desirable when she says, you shall not touch it, becoming the first legalist in history when God actually said, you shall not eat of it. If you do, you will die. And I think that's interesting how her pattern of sin work, because it's the same pattern of sin that we indulge in, which is essentially minimize the blessing of God, minimize the judgment, and then maximize the prohibition to make it more appealing. We do it. And that's that James passage. We're dragged away and enticed. And then when that whole process plays out, what does it do? The same thing that did in the garden. It leads to death.
- [47:55]
A
Well, if you're wondering why we spent two podcasts talking about wisdom, because I felt led to do this, just because one John is hard to wrap your head around. And I think, you know, if you kind of realize, okay, maybe I need to. Like one of my mentors used to tell me, every time I would bring up some passage that I hadn't really thought out, well, he would say, you need to think bigger. And I fear that as we talked about last podcast, we're so focused on atonement, just, you know, getting in and not going to hell or whatever the. The motivation is that we're. We're missing this experience of participating with our maker on earth and, and representing him, and he's supplied everything we need. But I. I thought of one other proverb I wanted to mention, because I think part of our problem is we just feel like, well, what can. What can I do? You know, I'm so. I'm just one person. I got all my problems and all. So this is an interesting one. This is Proverbs 30 and 24 and following, and it says, four things on earth are small, yet they are extremely wise. Ants are creatures of Little strength, yet they store up their food in the summer. Hyraxes, which I had to look that up. They're little badgers that live in rocks, are creatures of little power, yet they make their home in the rocks. Locusts have no king yet they advance together in ranks.
- [49:39]
B
That's so good.
- [49:42]
A
And a lizard can be caught with the human hand yet it is found in kings palaces. Oh, man. So I mean, you're like, well, why is that in there? Well, you don't. You think you're small and can't do anything. I mean, these little creatures, you don't think they're very wise. But I mean, you're a human being created in the image of God. You're in the very good section of the creation, you know, in the image of God and able to reign and lord over the creation. And so I think that's his point there, especially when he's supplying you the power of his holy spirit and that you're participating in this divine nature. So I wanted to say that. And as we go through this, I think if you will allow yourself to be open to the possibilities of what your position means in Christ, I think it'll make you puff your chest out a little bit and do things that may be uncomfortable because to me, that's really what walking like Jesus is all about. You just go out there and take a stand. I listen to a daily devotional from our friends Shane and Shane. I know you're good buddies with them and this morning was a showstopper. I don't know why I feel led to share this, but they did the song the Doxology, you know, praise God from whom all blessings flow. I mean, and they made a point. Everybody knows this song. It's like the Christian national anthem movie. My wife actually led a group of people off the cuff at. At the K Love Awards in that song. And what I was stunned at is everybody sang and it was powerful, but they did it on their. Devo was on that song. And they had a preacher who told the story behind this song. And it was some random guy from the 1600s who never had any money, who basically there was a law they couldn't write songs. It had to be word for word out of the Bible. And he had all these lists of songs. And he's the same guy who, by the way, because of his wisdom was led into the presence of the king just because he was good at stuff. And the king had summoned the use of his house for this king's mistress. And he said no. He said, My. My house is under repair. And by the way, I'm not going to use my house as a pimp for the king. Now, you say that to a king.
- [52:30]
C
You'Re probably going to get your head.
- [52:31]
A
Cut off, you know? But he's like, I'm just not compromising. But anyway, immediately after that story, he called a construction person and he said, I need you to rip the roof off my house. I mean, he said that because he didn't want to lie. So he actually hired a contractor to destroy his house so it wouldn't be a lie. But later on, after he died, he died obscurity, no money. They found this list of songs that he wrote in his journal, and that was one of those songs, and it became a national anthem. But it just made me think, when I read that proverb, I thought, this guy, just some old guy serving the Lord who had lost his parents at an early age. The whole story made me tear up and came up through an orphanage and just never had anything. But he found wisdom in the Lord, and look at him now.
- [53:25]
B
He was a lizard who lived in the palace, you know, because he. Because he understood who God was. That's awesome. Well, we. We may or may not get back to first John. Next podcast, we'll. We'll just see how that goes. But that was a. That was a good rabbit hole, Jason. I love it. And it is all over the book, so it's. It's good.
- [53:45]
A
Yeah.
- [53:45]
B
We'll see you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.