Ep 1247 | Jase Admits How an Awkward Auction Turned Into a Life-Changing Coincidence

Summary

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Unashamed with the Robertson Family: Ep 1247

"Jase Admits How an Awkward Auction Turned Into a Life-Changing Coincidence"
Released: January 14, 2026

Main Theme

This episode centers around stories of faith, transformation, and the unexpected ways God works through life’s circumstances. The hosts—Jase, Al, Zach, and others—discuss Jase's recent life-changing experience at a charity auction and delve deeply into the biblical understanding of trials, suffering, perseverance, and the joy found in Christ, with insights drawn especially from James 1. They illustrate how painful moments can become opportunities for spiritual growth, the value of genuine Christian community, and the meaning of joy in adversity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Zach's Birthday and Family Banter

• The episode opens with a lighthearted celebration of Zach’s birthday, jokes about age, and family traditions.
  • [01:14] Zach: "He's just reminding you, Jason. He’s younger than you and I."
  • [01:23] Zach: "I want cousin Jase to take me duck hunting."
• Jase riffs on duck hunting safety, recalling the ever-present risks, especially for new or guest hunters.
  • [02:27] Jase: "It's a safety issue... you never want [the gun] in that position till you're fixing to shoot."

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2. A Coincidental Auction Sparks Spiritual Transformation

• Jase shares how a Christian charity auction led him to bid on a Florida fishing trip—initially out of social pressure.
  • [04:29] Jase: "You forget I’m the one that got it started... I leaned over and told Missy, I said, I’m fixed to buy this fishing trip, just out of the pressure."
• Unexpectedly, the military veteran who offered the trip reached out, not about logistics, but because he wanted to "give his life to the Lord."
  • [04:57] Jase: "He said, 'No, I’m ready to give my life to the Lord.' I was like, 'Oh, you’re not in the Lord?' It kind of shocked me."
• This moment began a relationship of mentoring, Bible study, and eventually baptism, reinforcing Jase’s conviction that there are no coincidences with God.
  • [05:17] Jase: "The longer I’m in the faith, the less I believe in coincidences."
• The man and his family traveled six hours to see Jase, forming deep connections across their families and church groups.

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3. Living Through Trials: Lessons from James 1

• The episode pivots into an in-depth discussion of James 1 and the biblical concept of rejoicing amidst trials.
  • [08:01] Al: "James starts out his book... 'Consider it pure joy, brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds.' That statement in and of itself is one of the most difficult things written in the whole Bible in my opinion."
• Al and Jase highlight the contrast between James’ and John’s letters, underlining the sources of true joy.
  • [12:22] Jase: "How both writers from totally different perspectives are focusing on the true joy that is found in Christ."

Key Quotes on Perseverance and Endurance

• [14:11] Al (1 Peter 1:6-8): "'In all this you greatly rejoice...though now for a little while you have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials.'"
• [15:40] Jase (John 15:11): "'I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete.'"

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4. Pain, Suffering, and Growth: Film and Philosophy References

• Al opens his sermon recap with a surprising reference to Denzel Washington’s character Robert McCall in Equalizer 2:
  • [16:29] Al: "There are two kinds of pain. Pain that hurts and pain that alters."
  • [17:30] Al: "The question is, is it going to do any good? Is something good going to come out of whatever hurts is about to happen?"
• Incorporates Kierkegaard’s insight:
  • [17:50] Al (paraphrasing Kierkegaard): "Adversaries do not make a person weak. They reveal what strength he has."
• Philosophical and practical breakdown of the difference between outward trials (circumstantial) and inward ones (temptations/self-inflicted).

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5. The Cycle of Sin and "The Stairway to Hell"

• Candid discussion about the nature of sin, the illusion that it brings anything positive, and how cycles of pain perpetuate themselves.
• Zach shares a formative memory:
  • [27:43] Zach: "[Pastor] Mike Kellett... said, 'There's no advantage to sin.'"
• Jase reads James 1:13-16, underlining the path from temptation, to desire, to sin, to death.
  • [29:47] Jase: "Each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed... after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin... and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death."

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6. Testimonies of Transformation and Avoiding Spiritual Insanity

• Zach describes “the cycle of insanity”—how people attempt to self-medicate trauma or guilt rather than submit to Christ.
  • [41:02] Zach: "You do the thing to try to escape this world... It gives temporary relief. But then when the drug wears off... you feel even worse... and it’s this spiral."
  • [42:25] Zach: "The only way out of the cycle of insanity is to submit to reality itself—which we believe is to submit to the holy God."

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7. Crown of Thorns, Crown of Life: Suffering Now and Glory to Come

• Al draws a powerful connection between the “crown of life” promised in James 1 and the crown of thorns worn by Jesus.
  • [43:50] Al: "It’s the same Greek word, the crown of glory... and for the crown of thorns that Jesus was wearing the day he died."
  • [44:30] Al: "The idea is that we submit our crowns to who he is and what the crown of thorns represents—now, not just in the life to come."
• Zach invokes Romans 8 and the idea that all creation groans, waiting for restoration—a hope held in present suffering.
  • [47:51] Zach: "Creation itself is groaning with eager expectation, waiting for the sons of God to be revealed..."

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8. Being Tried, Tempted, and Found True

• Al’s closing takeaway: Christian life is not about avoiding suffering but being transformed through it, submitting daily to Christ’s shaping.

  • [53:49] Al: "This is the punishing gospel... we’re going to be tried, we’re going to be tempted—the question is, are we going to be true?"

• Jase concludes with the encouragement that even when facing suffering, separation, or the specter of death, nothing can “separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 8:39)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jase on Coincidences:
  "[04:57] The longer I’m in the faith, the less I believe in coincidences."
• Al on the Challenge of Joy in Trials:
  "[08:01] If you're going to have an opening line, he's got one—'consider it pure joy whenever you face trials.'"
• Philosophy Meets Pop Culture:
  "[16:29] There are two kinds of pain. Pain that hurts and pain that alters." (Denzel Washington via Al)
• Zach on Sin:
  "[27:43] There’s no advantage to sin. There’s no advantage to it."
• Al on Crowns:
  "[43:50] It's the same Greek word for the crown of thorns that Jesus was wearing on the day he died."
• Jase on Transformation:
  "[36:22] He will even recreate you... He gives us a choice to say, you know what? I’m changing courses. I’m just going all in."
• Zach on the Christian Hope:
  "[47:51] We’re in the not yet now... the trials, the broken world, sometimes things don’t work out but push through the now so we’ll get to the not yet, to the consummation."
• Al on the Real Gospel:
  "[53:49] This is the punishing gospel... we’re going to be tried, we’re going to be tempted—the question is, are we going to be true?"

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:23] – Zach’s Birthday Wish: Duck hunting with Jase
• [03:16] – Duck hunting safety anecdotes and illustrated risks
• [04:29] – The awkward military auction and its faith outcome
• [05:17] – The birth of a mentoring relationship & Jase’s view on “coincidence”
• [08:01] – The “pure joy” of trials in James 1 explained
• [14:11] – Al connects lessons from Peter and James about endurance
• [16:29] – Movie illustration: "There are two kinds of pain..."
• [29:47] – Reading and discussing James 1:13-17—the “stairway to hell”
• [41:02] – Zach unpacks the cycle of addiction and “insanity”
• [43:50] – Al’s insight on the “crown of life” and suffering as glory
• [47:51] – Romans 8: Creation groaning for redemption
• [53:49] – The "punishing gospel" versus the “prosperity gospel”

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Overall Tone

Casual, heartfelt, and deeply relational—mixing biblical scholarship, humor, personal testimony, and practical theology, the Robertson family brings a sense of hope and gritty realism to the challenges of Christian life.

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Conclusion

Episode 1247 of "Unashamed" is a rich tapestry of family storytelling, theological exploration, and real-world encouragement for believers. Whether reflecting on an “awkward auction” that turned into a spiritual encounter, exploring the paradoxical call to “consider it pure joy” when suffering, or challenging listeners to embrace the transformative “pain that alters,” the hosts demonstrate how Christ works through—and not around—life’s hardest places. Their takeaways: No pain is wasted in God’s hands, trials are inevitable, perseverance is possible, joy is available now, and nothing can separate believers from Christ's love.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[C]

So welcome back to Unashamed for the second Monday in a row on our recording schedule. We say days don't pay any attention because these things come out in different days to you guys listening, but we have a birthday on the Unashamed panel to celebrate. Last week, it was me, 61. Today it's Zach. Zach. Happy birthday.

[D]

Good to be here. Thank you, guys. Thank y' all for having me.

[C]

Do you mind telling us how old you are? Are you one of those people that doesn't like to sub 50?

[D]

I'm sub 50. Still in the 40s.

[C]

Sub 50. That's the new category. Sub 50.

[D]

Boys.

[C]

He's just reminding you, Jason. He's younger than you and I by.

[D]

And I'm coming in town in two weeks.

[C]

What do you want for your birthday, Zach?

[D]

Well, I was. I want cousin Jace to take me duck hunting. So he's.

[C]

It's an official right here. On unashamed days, the pressure's on. What do you say?

[B]

I've had guests for the last few days, and so I'm not a guest. I'm family.

[D]

There's a difference. No expectation.

[B]

You're gonna have to do something about that. That face. And because you're bright, you spend a.

[D]

Lot of time growing this thing out. Boys.

[B]

As my dad would say, pretty good beard. You spend a lot of time indoors, staring at computer screens, and it's made your face bright white, whiter than normal. And I want.

[D]

If you're listening. And this is Jace, this is his love language. I asked him, I said, I'm gonna come duck hunting when I come and tell you.

[C]

So.

[D]

Hey, as long as you don't shoot over my head, which I've never done. But you have to go through the roasting and the. And this is a humbling process to get in the blind. Yes. I'm in the humiliation phase right now.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

It's a safety issue. I mean, like, I've Taken guests seeming seemingly all year. And like, we've had moments this year where I had to look over at our guest and say, you see that red on your gun? You never want it in that position till you're fixing to shoot. Yeah, I just noticed it so and so that's kind of sobering because people just don't. They. They get distracted, they're caught up. And, hey, we're hunting out here, and it's a safety issue, Zach. So I'll give you the speech, even though you're my.

[C]

Well, we had the. A couple of years ago, we had the guy on our podcast that has leg shot off, literally from a duck hunting accident. I mean, you know, you got loaded guns in a blind with a bunch of people.

[B]

It's dangerous when you don't as much as I do. So I had one of my friends in this weekend, military guy, and I met him at a Chad Robichaux event, which I didn't know all the details, that he was invited by Robichaux's son and he was giving away a fishing trip. He got caught up in the emotion. Here we're sharing Jesus. I spoke, a couple other guys spoke. And, you know, you assume since this is kind of a Jesus based thing, and we're helping military guys and we're trying to not only help them overcome ptsd, but we got the greatest counselor in the world that God's offering via the Holy Spirit in Jesus. And at the end, he gave away a fishing trip. He guides fishing trips in Florida. And I thought, well, this is finally something, because these auction things to help. They give away all kind of stuff. Well, this one, nobody would bid on it. And I thought, guy's gonna take you fishing. He's a military guy. Let's get the bidding started. Of course, you forget I'm the one that got it started. But then every time someone else would bid on it, everybody's looking at me. I thought I leaned over and told Missy, I said, I'm fixed to buy this fishing trip, because just out of the pressure. And so I did. And so he gave me his contact. And, you know, he said, we'll have to line up the fishing trip. Yeah, okay, sounds great. Well, about three or four days later, he sends me a text and he said, well, I think I'm ready. And I was like, I got to get my schedule lined out. And he was like, no, I'm ready to give my life to the Lord. I was like, oh, you're not in the Lord. I mean, it kind of shocked me. Yeah, and so it began, a Bible study. And he got invited. He came, he wanted to do something nice, and I happened to buy it. And, you know, I just don't. The longer I'm in the faith, the less I believe in coincidences. And so he. When I said, I said, well, come on. Because he said, I've been studying what you talked about in your speech. Because I made the point like I always do in my speeches. I'm like, go home, read the book of John, see who Jesus is. Well, you know, I do so many speeches, you forget that there's some people out there listening that go do it. That they go, read the book of John, see who Jesus is. And then they send you a random text saying, hey, I'm already. And so I'm like, well, come on over. Which he's in North Florida.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I took that to me. We'll work out the schedule later. But however long it takes to drive.

[C]

From Florida, six hours. James. I do.

[B]

Six hours later, he pulled up in my yard.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

With a whole throng of people. His family, his kids, the preacher that, the church he's been going to, that he said, I feel so bad because he's been trying to tell me this for years. And so I wound up baptizing him. And we just become great friends and kind of disciple partners and studying. And so I took him duck hunting. And unfortunately, in that time, I guess that's been two years ago when that happened.

[C]

And in the interim of that, because of you, he. You introduced him to me. And so he and his wife were in a marriage group over there. And he asked if Lisa and I would. Because we, you know, Gulf Shores is only just an hour from Pensacola. Yeah. And as we'd come over and share with his group one night, which we did. And it was fantastic. I mean, not just. Just ty. His. He and his wife, but also the whole group. And so we, you know, we got a relationship now. So we talk, you know, and our thing is totally different from what you and he talk about. And then he was here yesterday, and.

[B]

You happened to be preaching yesterday. I had no idea because he said, I want to come visit WFR because I feel like it's my church.

[C]

Away from home.

[B]

Yeah, away from home. And so he was so excited to come. And I wound up. We went hunting yesterday afternoon because he kept me up all night asking me Bible questions, which. I'll bring some of that up. He had some really good questions. But what I was going to say. And Al, you happen to be preaching on James 1 talking about not a coincidence. Not a coincidence. Because he said, well, you didn't tell me how your brother was preaching. I said, I had no idea he was preaching.

[C]

I didn't even know he was here.

[B]

And so he. He got diagnosed with kind of a rare disease that there's no really cure for. They don't even know how to manage it. Very few people have it. And his attitude toward it was incredible.

[C]

It's amazing.

[B]

And he's like, well, because we're talking.

[C]

About the sort of thing that he spent his whole life and career doing. And trust me when I tell you this, he's one of the tip of the spear kind of guys in our country that, you know, I mean, oh.

[B]

He'S a special type.

[C]

This guy's an operator.

[B]

If he walked in right now, you'd say, not gonna mess with him.

[C]

That's right. And the thing about it is, though, he. So we're talking about a complete life change because of what he's dealing with. And, you know, he and I communicate just like you guys do. So I'm praying for him all the time and just to endure through this trial. And then he. I looked down. I have no idea he's here. And after I preached this sermon, with which I wrestled with for two weeks because it's such a. It's such a man. A devastating text to me, just in the content.

[B]

And you're not going to say this, Al. It was absolutely fantastic. I encourage people to go find that and listen to it. It was fantastic.

[C]

It's. WFRchurch.org is where you can find it. We're going to talk a little bit about it. But it's a. James, you know, is really interesting because he. We're studying first John in our Bible study, which is one of the last books, probably written in the New Testament right along with Revelation. James is one of the first books. So this is very early. James is an early leader in the church. You read about him in Acts 15. He's Jesus, half brother, we think. And so obviously he's embedded there. And so the church is going through all this stuff. And then he starts out his book. And I said it, James yesterday. I was like, if you're going to have an opening line, he's got one verse, two. He says, consider it pure joy. Brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, if you just stop right there. Zach, you talk about a hard way to begin a conversation, because that statement in and of itself is one of the most difficult things written in the whole Bible in My opinion.

[B]

Oh, yeah, well, and think about where John started, to your point, which came much later. And he gives this beautiful paragraph of, okay, we saw this Jesus. And now later on in his years, he's like that which was from the beginning, which we've heard, which we've seen with our eyes, which we've looked at and our hands have touched. This we proclaim concerning the word of life, the life of life. But he gets to the end where he says, our fellowship is with the Father and with his son, Jesus. We write this to make our or your joy complete.

[C]

So, Zach, it's your birthday today, and you're getting closer and closer to the big five. Zero. As we've gotten older, it gets a little harder to deal with weight, right? I mean, at one time you never had to worry about it, but now you do, right?

[D]

It slows down. And this is bulking season right now, you know, right in the middle of winter. So you gotta watch it.

[C]

So we found out from our good friends at PhD, instead of about being about willpower, which is what almost every diet and weight loss program is about, it's about metabolism. And that does change over time. And so you gotta reset that. You gotta make sure that your body has the right metabolism to burn fat. And so I've learned this. If you've been watching my journey. Here's the picture of me at the beginning. Here I am now some 80 pounds lighter. Obviously, for me, not only do I feel better, but I've gotten off of most of my meds. I'm much more active than I was before. I don't have a CPAP machine. It can change your life. So I want to encourage you. You may have been thinking about it. You're thinking, it worked for Al. Will it work for me? The answer is yes. If you want to understand why your body isn't cooperating, call PhD Weight Loss now and mention Fix My Weight Loss to unlock our New Year's special book, your consultation. It's free, it's personalized, and it could explain everything. Call 864-644-1900 and say fix my weight loss. That's 864-644-1900. Or visit myphdweightloss.com and be sure and tell them that Al sent you.

[B]

In that. Isn't that something? How both riders from totally different perspectives are focusing on the true joy that is found in Christ. And one of them just in the awesomeness of experiencing an eyewitness view of the Creator becoming a man. And here's James who you mentioned yesterday, the half brother of Jesus. Half brother who at one point didn't believe John 7, 5 referenced it. When we went through John, even his own brothers didn't believe. Well, what happened to him? Well, we saw his brother come back from the dead.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. Which I made that point. You know, he. I said he didn't brag about this. Why he doesn't mention it. He doesn't brag about being Jesus brother because he shouldn't brag about. He didn't even believe him. I mean, he spent this whole life with his brother and he's thought, this guy.

[B]

I mean, how can you imagine? You're. We're born in a family of four brothers. Can you imagine at some point me or Willie or Jeff saying, hey, just a little heads up, I'm actually from heaven.

[C]

The, you know, I don't. I hadn't seemed like I really fit in here. It's because I don't. I'm not from here, I'm from heaven.

[B]

You're like, oh, yeah, okay, go with Jason.

[C]

You were the only one that could have claimed it though, because you were the most different from the rest of it. So I want to read, I want to read this verse since you brought it up about John because I hadn't thought about it that that phrase make my joy complete. When we studied John, I don't have it in front of me, but there were at least four references that I can remember where Jesus said that exact same thing. Now my joy would be made complete. But listen to what Peter says. Same thing about the same topic in 1st Peter 1:6:8. And all this you greatly rejoice.

[B]

There.

[C]

There it is again, though now for a little While. This is 1st Peter 1:6:8. You have had to suffer grief and all kinds of trials. These have come so that the proven genuineness. And that's that idea of testing the authenticity of your faith of greater worth than gold which perishes even though refined by fire, may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. Though you have not seen him, you love him, even though you do not see Him. Now you believe in him, and here it is. And are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy. So again it comes back to this idea of perseverance.

[B]

I want to read these because you referenced them. John 15:11. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you, which goes along with first John 1:4 and that your joy may be complete. Then in 16:24. Now the context of the Spirit being poured out and being in you. Until now, you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be made complete. Then in his prayer, John 17:13, I am coming to you now. But I say these things while I am still in the world so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. Yeah, there you go.

[C]

That's good. So, Zach, and I'll tell you this. In my opening. In the history of sermons, I doubt this has ever been done. I quoted two philosophers, and I'm sure you do this on a regular basis because you're a philosophy guy. The first one was one you may not have heard of. Have you ever heard of the great philosopher Robert McCall, Zach?

[D]

Robert McCall.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

This was funny. This look, I had to tell everyone on my row because Missy looked at me and said, what's he talking about? And I said, you ever heard a guy named Denzel Washington?

[C]

So go ahead.

[B]

Go ahead.

[C]

There's your clue. So here's Robert McCall Washington, the great theologian Robert McCall. And I. And I paused.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And nobody reacted. And I said in the opening scenes from Equalizer 2. And then I paused. And then there were some chuckles. But then a bunch of people still didn't react because they thought, what is he talking about? He said this because. Because I took the whole framework of this statement and kind of wove it through the lesson. There are two kinds of pain. I don't know if you remember this from the movie. Remember the opening scene? The guy stolen his daughter. Yeah. And has taken her. And the bodyguards are there, and McCall has just wiped them out in 20 seconds. And he looks at the guy and he's taken off his disguise. He says, there's two kinds of pain. Pain that hurts and pain that alters. And then. Then you just leave the scene. You don't know what happens. What happened to this guy. You know, Next. I don't even. Next scene.

[B]

Remember him saying that.

[C]

Next scene is one of my favorite lines ever. Because it's. It really, to me, spoke to what James is talking about in this text. We're all going to hurt. Question is, is it going to do any good?

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Is something good going to come out of whatever hurts about to happen? That's what he's telling this guy.

[B]

Excellent point.

[C]

He's fixing to just whip the fire at him. So I told that. And then I introduced Job into the context because I knew I'd be talking about him quite a bit. But then, Zach, I quoted Kirkegaard, who actually is a philosopher, and here's what he says, which is fantastic. Adversaries do not make a person weak. They reveal what strength he has. Would you think about that for a minute? Because then we get into this idea about our adversaries because James is going to pivot through this text of talking about testing to then talking about temptation. And most scholars have it as sort of an outward trial and an inward trial, which I think is a pretty good way to look at that. The one comes from us is sort of what we do to ourselves. The other one is what's done to us. And so these are forces at work. And it's not always the evil one. It could be a lot. It could be circumstance or a lot of things. But James basically says it doesn't matter, no matter what happens, whether it's the outward trial or the inward trial, ultimately the answer is the same. And so that was kind of the overriding theme of my lesson yesterday out of this text.

[B]

Well, don't you think that I read those references that you brought up from Jesus in the book of John itself, and you see this common theme happening in First John and James 1. But don't you think it reminds me even from the whole view of First John, where he talks about being in the world and don't love the world, and we've overcome the world in 1 John 5, which we'll get to. But after he said that in John 15, you remember where he says, beginning in verse 18, he says, if the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belong to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. And then it goes on to say, if they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. And you know, I get it. Even just living in this world, in a world that's been damaged by our own sin, the evil one, the celestial beings that have fallen, you have all kinds of pain that you have to go through, but you also. He's made it real clear, if you follow me, pain is coming. You will be persecuted. And that's why when you hear a statement like that, which I thought you did a good job setting it up, we just, we don't like pain.

[D]

No, we don't.

[B]

And considering it pure joy, it's like, it's such a mic drop statement, that first verse, to your point.

[C]

Yeah. And I said, when I read it, I said, good luck, you know, leading a revival with that phrase. Right. Unless you go through the whole context, which of course, we did in the sermon, but also we do. Even while we're talking about what we're talking about on the podcast, um, he. He lays out, I. I thought a really good job in those first eight verses of this idea that it's a process that we go through. And in other words, you just don't get to perseverance. You have to live to get to persevere. You have to endure to get to persevering. You know, the process. He lays out clearly, and he talks about them, what that does and what that looks like and what happens when you don't have it. But I think we always take the negative side. I tried to take the positive side yesterday that he gives us these little clues. He says, you can ask because you have access to God, no matter what you're going through, you have the capacity to ask for help for godly wisdom. And you just think about that for someone who doesn't know and doesn't have a relationship with God, and you didn't have that access to really ask for help and get it, that would be. That. I mean, that's strike one right off the bat. That's such a huge thing. And I kept taking it back to the Holy Spirit, even though James doesn't specifically mention in this text the Holy Spirit. It's all over this, this idea about where godly wisdom comes from. And we talked about that on this podcast a couple of times. That becomes our access point. And it's been here since the Spirit was hovering over the waters. Right? The access to the Almighty and through whatever we're dealing with and whatever we're going through, I mean, that help is available. And so. And you mentioned our friend. He. He got that. And. And yesterday afterwards, he touched my heart so much because I just preached the sermon about this and knowing that he was going through this but not knowing he was there. And I was. I was like, dude, I said, what about the timing of that? And he said, oh, man, it was. It was right where I'm living. I said, I know. But he said something so amazing to me because he was telling me a little bit about where he's at and his family. And he said, you know, I just listened to your sermon. He said, I just thought to myself how thankful I am that Jesus thought enough of me to alter where I was at and to where I needed to be. And I thought, you got it, dude. That's what this is about. Because I use that word, pain that alters. And he used it. When he was telling me, he said Jesus took the time to alter me. He said I never would have left the military, you know, for a lot of different reasons, but I never would have changed some things about my life. He said, but Jesus thought enough of me that he helped me. And he Now I realize this last season of however much ever time I have on this earth is going to be spent with my family because I spent so much time away from him.

[B]

And spending time unashamed of his faith.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And that, yeah, it was really incredible.

[D]

Al have you ever had any subscriptions that you did not know you were paying for?

[C]

Zach I have a lot of grandchildren that are Internet savvy. Yes, I have many subscriptions that I did not know I have.

[D]

Yeah, you got to stay on top of it. That's why I use Rocket Money. One of the most difficult things, honestly, is just trying to get your finances in order. And before I use Rocket Money, I used to spend a lot of time trying to do that, trying to make sure we stayed on budget. One of the things I noticed when I signed up for Rocket Money was that I had been paying for for several subscriptions multiple times. In fact, there was a couple services that I had three different subscriptions on. And not only did Rocket Money find those unwanted subscriptions, they actually canceled them for me. Saved me a ton of money. I'm telling you, this is the real deal. Rocket Money, it's a personal finance app that helps you find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitor your spending, and help slower your bills so that you can grow your savings. So we're saving hundreds of dollars a month on canceled subscriptions alone. I can see all my subscriptions in one place, including the ones I forgot about. And if I see something I don't want, well, Rocket Money can help me cancel it. Rocket Money's dashboard gives me a clear view of my expenses across all my accounts. With automatic transaction categorization and tags that show my spending patterns. I can also create a personalized budget to help keep my spending on track. I get alerts if my bills increase in price or if there's any unusual spending activity. So let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join RocketMoney.com Unashamed [e-mail] Unashamed that's RocketMoney.com Unashamed RocketMoney.com Unashamed. That's a good point, though, that opening line you had, because my mom used to say, and she's actually wrong in this, but she would tell Me this all the time. Right before she'd whip my tail, she would say, because we had parents that believed in what we now call belt whoopings. Both of us and both of our parents, I guess because they were siblings. I don't know where they got this from. They did engage in the syllabic whooping where each syllable was a lick.

[B]

The syllabic. Syllabic whipping. You just used a word I've never used, Salavic. I was thinking, is that some kind of Russian whipping?

[D]

Slavic. Slavic. But she would tell me before the whooping would occur that that change only comes when the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of change. And so then she would enforce the whooping to basically say, I'm trying to elevate the pain level where it's more painful for you to stay where you're at than it would be for you just to change. But the truth is, is that some people, they never. I mean, they'll just let the pain continue to increase, and they never let it manifest and change. And. And I think that's one of the wild things about the nature of sin and evil, is that it really does. It can corrupt your mind to a degree that you'll sit in your pain for way longer than you have to. And I think once you start to think about if God's way of righteousness, if it's actually an escape from your pain, it's almost like, I think once you come to Christ, so many people look back and say, what took me so long? Like, why did I wait this long to come to Jesus? But, yeah, I mean, but you can sit in it if you want to. But for me, it's like, why would you want to?

[C]

I mentioned that, that first time I heard Mac. Oh. And it's the first time I ever heard this. I've heard it many times since, that the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result. And he's talking to people about, you know, trying to help them get out of drugs and alcohol and, you know, things that have plagued their life. But if you think about it, it's just what you describe, Zach, is true. It's really insane to think you can just, like, stay in something that's unhealthy for you and continue to be there and experience the pain. Because I got into the thing about that how that. Because when you get to sin, and the second part of this text, when he shifts over in verse 13, that we look at, we see the result of sin. Nowhere in the Bible can I find where sin somehow helps you do something. Yeah, I mean, it's not in there. In other words, no, you won't find it.

[D]

Well, Mike Kellett used to. He said, this one time when we were at church camp, I was like, maybe 18 years old, and I don't know what I was thinking, but I was an idiot. I know that. And I was. Some in my mind had built this rationale that I was going to go get a testimony because I'd hear these testimonies. I thought, well, that's, man. How awesome is that? I need a testimony, and I can go out there and burn it up for a few years. They give me an excuse, and I can come back to Christ, and then I'll have a testimony that could really help a lot of people. I mean, I really thought this in the deep levels of my subconscious. And Mike said he was given a divo, and this stuck with me all these years. He said, hey, there's no advantage to sin. There's no advantage to sin. And I thought, he's right. There's no advantage to it.

[C]

And that's why I'm saying you can find a lot of texts, which is why I think James pivoted to that, because you find a lot of texts about gaining endurance through difficulty, through things outside of your control. And of course, the Book of Job is full of that. But when you get to just your own sinful behavior, Khalil's right, there's no advantage to that. And I can't find where there's anything good that comes from it. Now, that's not saying that when someone leaves a life of sin, that it's remarkable. And I mentioned at the end of our sermon a woman that was, you know, on the podcast that told her story. And when you hear things like that, it does. It inspires you that the grace of God was there for this person, but the sin itself, all it does is wreck and destroy. And he made that real clear when he did the little. I call it the stairway to hell. When he does the desire.

[B]

Oh, well, I mean, I want to just read that, Al. I want to make a point and to get back to my buddy ty in James 1:13, when it says, when tempted, no one should say, God has tempted me. For God cannot be tempted by evil, which is good news, by the way.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

Nor does he tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived it gives birth to sin. And, you know, it's hard. We don't ever talk about this as much as, like, you allowing the birth of sin to occur in your life through this process. And sin, when it is full grown, gives birth to death. So we have some bursts going on in your life as you go along. And what's fascinating is then he gives you the good news when he gets to verse 16. He says, don't be deceived, my dear brothers. Every good and perfect gift is from above coming down from the Father, which is a theme of the Bible. God coming down heaven, coming down to earth. Jesus, pray and I pray that your kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven. The Father of the heavenly lights who does not change like shifting shadows. And Al, when you read this verse, Missy leaned over in church yesterday and she's like, he chose. Yeah, he chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of first fruits of all he created. And that gets into this new creation idea that came from heaven. So it spawned. During our lunch yesterday. I wanted to share this because Ty was asking me about this, this process, because you really hit a nerve with him on that. Because here's a guy who, like, said, special Forces, been a warrior, done a lot of things that's very hard to navigate. And they call it PTSD or whatever, but you're seeing just the worst of the worst when it comes to sin and death and war and all these things. And then you're having to deal with it as a human being. And he's like, the mode of opera die, you know, for military guys is drugs, alcohol, when they. When they get out, went chasing women. He's like, that's just what you do to try to process what just happened. Yeah. And because you.

[C]

Because you're following that first stepping line.

[B]

It gives birth to one into the other. And he's like, even, you know, when. When I was diagnosed with this disease, I mean, this guy works out three hours a day. He has worked out, you know, for years. He's just a trained physical specimen.

[C]

All of a sudden, he can't do it.

[B]

He can't do it. He's like, you know what I realized? I go to the gym, workout, and here's women there that are dressed inappropriately, is how he put it. You know, he's like, but I'm putting myself in that situation. He was in a band, and he's like, I love, you know, singing and playing in the band. He's like, but guess where you do that at bars, same women show up there dressed inappropriately. He's like, they don't give you tips. They give you shots of whiskey. And he's like, I didn't. I wasn't putting all that together. That I'm putting myself in places for this to give birth. And over and over. And he was saying this in a context of, I'm so thankful that God has humbled me through these trials where I got my focus right now. And I'm worried about this spiritual armor and arming myself for being God's man in whatever situation I'm at. I just thought, what a take on this. And you just see this being refined.

[D]

Mando, I just started wearing this stuff. I'm telling y', all, this is the real deal. I've never wore deodorant. Always pick an antiperspirant because they just don't work. This is the first time that I've actually used something that was not like this metal toxin antiperspirant that's actually worked. I'm telling you, Mando is the real deal. I stand behind it. It's been working for me.

[C]

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[D]

You think about this though, when you you had mentioned some of the the ways that these military guys that suffer from PTSD deal with that. And you're right. I mean, a lot of we have A lot of mutual friends that have come out of Special Forces, we have a lot of friends of the military that come out and they're dealing with these things and so they self medicate. But if you think about the nature of self, medication is what you're essentially trying to do is to get out of this world. Like, you're like. Because you're, you're in this world, you experience that kind of pain and trauma which you. I mean, look, you go to CR at, at White Street Road, and there's a saying that, that I've heard there that all behavior is explainable in its context. You sit down with somebody that's really strung out on drugs, if you could really sit with them for an extended period of time, what you're going to realize is there's a story behind that of pain, trauma, abuse, neglect. I mean, fill in the blank. They've had an experience in this world that was so painful that that is what the problem is, is that we're trying to escape this world. And I'm so glad that you read that verse. And was that in James where you said that the blessings come from, like they come down from heaven?

[B]

Yeah. And every good and perfect is from above coming down from heaven. But then that little phrase where he chose to give us birth. And I just immediately thought, we're made in his image and he's given us the greatest reason to stop what we're doing on earth and change courses. He will even recreate you. And look, since we're made in his image, he gives us a choice to say, you know what? I'm changing courses. I'm just going all in. And I just think it's a beautiful way to depict that transformation process.

[D]

Well, because what's happening is the reason why the new birth is key to this whole thing. And the Bible says that we have the first fruits of the spirit. And there's this language of Jesus being the firstborn of all creation. And you think of a firstborn, new creation, new earth, rebirth. Here's why it matters. Because Christ never prays in the Garden of Gethsemane for us to leave the earth. He never says, get him out of this world. It's going to hell in a handbasket. The Antichrist is coming. Get him out of here. What he says in John 17:15 is my prayer is not. It's not that you take them out of the world, but that you protect them from the evil one. So the nature of the rebirth is it's very earthy. And so when you mentioned The Lord's Prayer earlier, when Jesus prays, notice the direction of the kingdom. He says, our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy holy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done right here on earth as it is in heaven, and give us today our daily bread. So you read that prayer that Jesus said. This is how you should pray when you pray. There's not one mention in that prayer of us getting out and off of earth. It ain't about us going anywhere. It's about the kingdom of heaven coming to us, which falls right in line with that passage you read in James of the blessings coming from heaven. And so our default posture, though, and this is not just for guys with ptsd, this is all of our default posture as sinners, is that we want to get out of this earth. We want to get out of this world. And the Lord's like, no, we're not getting out of this world. We are going to redeem this earth. There will be a new creation or re creation. And you guys, as believers in Jesus, you are the first fruits of that. As believers in Christ, we house the Holy Spirit. We are actually the first fruits of the Spirit, which will cross over the entire cosmos to the glory of God. And this entire thing, physical universe, will be reborn as the dwelling place of God. And that, to me, is.

[C]

That's what I loved about the text. The end of that text was that James doesn't mention the name of Jesus or the name of the Holy Spirit, but they're so full in those three verses that are there. Another thing, Zach, that I thought was interesting, and I credit you guys on the podcast, because when he uses that, when he talks about that cycle, and I call it the cycle of doom, when it ends with that idea of death, you know, the Jewish concept of death, which I really picked this up from our discussions here on the podcast, was more than just, you know, we kind of always taken that as just either physical death and relate it back to the garden, which did come about as a result of sin or spiritually being cut off from God, which, again, did happen in the garden. But the Jewish concept was even bigger than that, which everything you just said, Zach, it points to that their idea was death is being away from the presence of God. Yes. And you see that all through the Old Testament when the ark would be gone or when something would happen. And it was just like, we're alone. We're separated from this idea of being the presence of God. And I read a couple of proverbs that kind of One is Proverbs 13:14, the teaching of the wise is a fountain of life turning a person from the snares of death. And that's this idea away from the presence of God. And then also in Proverbs 12:28, in the way of righteousness, there is life. Along that path is immortality. And so they were talking about this even way back in the ancient days, the idea that the presence of God, him being here with us, walking with us, is what provides us with that life. And in that life, in him, we're absent the destruction of relationships and everything around us. So everything you were describing, Jason, about that lifestyle, it always ends with not necessarily a broken man, but everything else in his life broken.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[D]

That's the nature to get you to.

[C]

The point of brokenness.

[D]

Yeah, because the nature of the site, the reason why it's called. I think in therapeutic circles, it's called the cycle of insanity. Or at least like, if you were to go into, like, AA or Narcotics Anonymous or celebrate recovery, they talk about this idea of the cycle of insanity, and we all have experienced it on some level, but essentially it's okay. I have trauma and shame and guilt, and I have this whole thing going on in my psyche and my emotional life. And so I do the thing to try to escape this world. And if that's substance abuse and that's my thing, then I do the. I do the thing. Well, then it gives me temporary relief. I mean, it does. Like, when you're in the moment, you wouldn't do it if it didn't give you any temporary relief. So, yeah, I. I start drinking. I go get drunk, and it numbs me. I'm not. I'm not having to experience this pain that I'm living in. But then when the drug wears off, when the. When the. When the medication wears off, well, now I'm. I feel even worse than I did before. And so I now have to remedicate again. And it's just this cycle of insanity that just keeps. It's like a spiral that I'm just going all the way down to the bottom. And I used to hear people tell their testimony, and they said, then I hit rock bottom. And I turned to Jesus. I went, no, you didn't hit rock bottom. Rock bottom is what you said. It's death. There is no rock bottom. And you can actually continue into that cycle of int. Insanity. You're not going to get to a place that you're thinking, I'm so miserable now. Now I'm going to turn because the lie continues. It's rooted in lies. And so the only way out of the cycle of insanity is to submit to reality itself, which is we believe that to be submit to the holy God and allow him through Jesus to bring you out of that. But that is the cycle and that's why you never get to the end of it.

[C]

I wanted to share one more thought in our last segment here that I had not realized before, but that really meant something to me. And again, I think it was our conversations that helped me see this for the first time. In verse 12 at the end of the trials section, he sort of opens it with considered pure joy. And then he ends that section. Before we got into the sinful stuff, we just discussed by saying this statement. Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial. Because remember he talked about the process because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him. Now, I've always taken that to mean, you know, that's in eternity, that's the resurrection. We're going to get these crowns of life, you know, because we stood the test of being, you know, the life. But that's not what he's talking about at all. He's talking about in the context of the trials, in the moment. And so I went back and looked at the Greek background of this phrase, crown of life.

[B]

And just to hit on that, Al, you got to prepare your mind to even entertain the thought of what you're suggesting is that a life who is willing to suffer for Jesus because of who he is, he's looking at that as a positive thing. Even though the pain is happening and you're being persecuted and things are just not going well.

[D]

Yeah, good point.

[C]

Guys. This is what they call the cold and flu season. It's all around the country, but I think for us in Louisiana, with these temperature ranges, it seems to be pretty much every year for us, right?

[B]

Every year it comes, Al. Whatever we can do to stop it or help it, we should do.

[C]

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[D]

Because the promise here, it is rooted in a trial. You know, we talk a whole lot on this podcast about the kingdom being here, but in that. But it is painful while we're here. Right? I mean, we go through stuff. We go through a lot of hurt, a lot of pain. Which made me think of that Romans 8 passage, which is one of the most wild passages in all of the Bible. When Paul says that the creation itself is groaning with eager expectation, waiting for the sons of God to be revealed, which is why would the creation groan? But the idea is that he says the creation was subjected to frustration not by its own will, but by Christ, essentially, so that in hope that the creation would be liberated from its bondage to decay. And the way that that's going to happen is through the believers, the priesthood of believers. Genesis 1:28 is going to be realized at some point in the future. Creation will be liberated from the curse. And so to think about, the creation is waiting for us, for the sons of God to be finally revealed, so that the creation can then be liberated through the meaningful work of the saints as they cultivate the garden and expand it across the entire globe. And the whole thing's finally realized. That's a hope that is in the future. But we're sitting in that now. And I think that's the trial we're going through. The trials we're going through the broken world. We're going through the fact that, man, sometimes we're doing stuff for the Lord, and we're building churches and building businesses and building communities, and sometimes they're building families, and sometimes marriages fall apart. Sometimes spouses cheat. Sometimes. We're in this not yet now. You know, to borrow from the podcast, we're in the not yet now. And I think that's the picture that he's pointing out in James, push through the now so that we will get to the night, yet we will get to the consummation.

[C]

He also, he illustrates in the midst of this text, and I got into it a little bit yesterday, the idea of making a comparison, because when we're going through something difficult, a lot of times people, especially people of God, will look at the world around them. They'll say, well, these people aren't suffering. I mean, they seem to be doing pretty well, and they don't love God. And he Makes the point. He says, well, I know it looks that way, but that's their test and they're not passing their test. It's really interesting. And so I close the lesson with. Because we just studied John with Jesus standing before Pilate. And it was very interesting because you remember Jesus answer to Pilate in this conversation about whether he was a king. He said, everyone on the side of truth listens to me. And so here's a guy standing there with a crown of thorns dug into his scalp, blood down his face, he's been beaten, he's got the fake robe on, they're mocking him. And he's standing there saying, if you want to do what's right, you'll listen to me. And he's literally standing feet away from Pilate. And Pilate's answer. Instead of saying, who is truth? As you mentioned before, James, he says, well, what is truth? In other words, what does that have to do with me? Now, here's a guy who you can.

[B]

Make truth whatever you want it to be.

[C]

And here's a guy who's the biggest fish in the pond. He thinks in the moment he's making all decisions about life and death, and he's standing feet away from the one that can save him forever, and he won't bow the knee.

[B]

I mean, it's no different. When I said about that guy who had justified his lifestyle by saying, well, I was born that way, he was basically saying, what is truth? I have this truth that I believe. It was only when he contemplated who is the truth and that he could be remade without me having to go through philosophical arguments that trumped his delusion.

[C]

That's it.

[B]

All of a sudden it's like, oh, wait just a second. I wanted to bring up. He brought up Romans 8. You know, not only that was a great point about the creation itself, but he goes on to just say, in the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. And where does that passage lead? He gets down to verse 35 of Romans 8, and he's like, who shall separate us from. From the love of Christ? And it's all these things James is talking about. Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword. And to your point, Al, I think we would do our new converts better by saying, guess what? You surrender to Christ and you're going to get to wear a crown of thorns for Jesus. That's right. But it just is not something we say because we feel like people are. Well, I'm not sure I want to.

[C]

Do that I'm not sure I want to sign up for this.

[B]

But look, even though when you read the first Peter 5, 4, talking about the crown of glory, that whole context is suffering as a Christian taking a beating. It's like you get to participate in the sufferings of Christ and you're blessed. Wear it with pride. And I think if you really believe the reality of what we're talking about, he raises dead men. We get to live forever. All these things are just part of the process that expresses the true love of God. This is what love looks like in our life, which is what he says. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ shall death or even life or angels or demons. Neither the present, the future, nor powers, height, depth, or anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of. Of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[C]

I would say, Zach, this text and my sermon yesterday for sure was quite the opposite of what people now call the prosperity gospel that's out there and popular.

[B]

This is the punishing gospel.

[C]

This is the punishing gospel. But you know what? There's the time this was written, the context of when it was written. It still speaks today as we brought it into the 21st century, even by the lives of people were talking about the name of it was tried, tempted, True. And I think that's exactly what our experience has to be. We're going to be tried, we're going to be tempted. The question is, are we going to be true? And that's the submission part to Christ and what he does to shape us and change us. And quite, quite literally, folks, he prepares us for anything. That's why last year we went through the crossing over of Dab. It's never easy to say so long for a while, but at the same time, that transition for us was like, that's natural.

[B]

And you look at him, he didn't seem real worried about it.

[C]

Not at all.

[B]

Even this new brother, I mean, he's relatively new. What kind of guy looks at the face of a doctor who just kind of put a short period of time and he kind of chuckles and like, ha ha. Yeah. Okay, well, I better get to work.

[C]

I'm on the clock. That's exactly the way that you want to respond. So I don't know if you're going to listen to this, Ty, but hopefully you do. You mean a lot to us, brother, so you're a great example to what. To what we should be as well. So. Well, that was James 1, so maybe we'll get to first. John next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.