← Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Ep 1252 | The Robertsons Rebuke Protesters Who Stormed a Minnesota Church
00:55:26
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- [00:02]
Jase
I am unashamed.
- [00:04]
Zach
What about you?
- [00:06]
Jason
So welcome back to Unashamed. It's been a while since I've seen Jase, this giddy.
- [00:15]
Jase
Listen, listen. I want everybody to listen to this sound. And for you who are listening, we're gonna need quiet. You gotta figure out what this is. That's me rubbing my hands together.
- [00:27]
Jason
If you're watching, you know.
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Jase
But if you're.
- [00:29]
Jason
If you're listening, that's Jay's very giddy. It's. He's been chomping at the bits to start this podcast because we have. So, you know, this would come out later, so I know how these things work. But we have the storm of the decade being predicted.
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Jase
Oh, I mean, look. And we don't know yet because there's still a prediction. And you know, these weather people are can't.
- [00:51]
Jason
You said you can't trust a weather.
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Jase
You can't trust them. But this time, of course, they're overstating everything. They're. I mean, my buddy from Kansas, old Barrett, he sent me a video and this weather guy literally had lost his mind. He was like, power's gonna be out. There's gonna be chaos in the streets. And so look, now, it may happen, but it just seemed a little over the top. But so, you know, ice storms are not fun, and so take precautions. But when you're in Louisiana and you're that far from Canada, when an ice storm comes, guess what comes with it?
- [01:35]
Zach
Waterfowl.
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Jason
Waterfowl.
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Jase
Thank you. Why did it take so long for us to get that answer?
- [01:40]
Jason
Well, I was waiting.
- [01:41]
Jase
I was waiting for you to answer.
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Zach
I thought it was a rhetorical question, so I didn't answer. It's going to be bad. I mean, it is a storm. I mean, they're saying 200 million people.
- [01:53]
Jase
Do you want me to run? You made a rub my hands together. Yeah. So look, let me just tell you what I've been.
- [01:59]
Zach
Coldest winter ever. This is what the headline says that 200, 200 million Americans warned to brace for the coldest winter storm ever. As downright concerned forecasters predict below 50 degree weather up north and 18 inches of snow.
- [02:15]
Jase
We'll see. Now, look, there's in the forecasters three days that it's not getting above freezing in Louisiana. So just think about that.
- [02:27]
Jason
I don't want very rare.
- [02:29]
Jase
Remember that maybe 20 years ago that happened or so. So. But I. I'd already felt this approaching. So y' all are late to the party here. We got a rain because we've had a real tough duck season. Until last Sunday we got a rain, which is about a week ago. And we went out in an afternoon hunt about three days later because now one of our holes, just one, has the right amount of water. And guess What? Full limits, five men, 30 ducks. Awesome. Everybody high fiving, you know, so then everybody was like, oh well, let's go here again tomorrow. I said, nope, nope, we're going to leave that hole alone. If you have to go, you can go where we don't have enough water and kill you a couple wood ducks. Which happened. My predictions were all right and I waited till today because today is the first day of this disturbance. They're calling for rain. So I said we're going to move back in this place because the wind is right for this one hole we got. We haven't disturbed it in three days. So we get there this morning before daylight. I Woke up at 4:30. We get out there about 6 to the property, put out the decoys and guess what? Started raining. And then it got legal shooting hours. And just we heard in the decoys pop up. Kill for teal. You know, everybody's looking around like, what, what's happening? I was waiting for those three words. Al never heard them. But then a mallard drake comes in. Boom. You know, oh, we got, got some green, you know, you know, and then a couple more tips. Pop. Another mallard drake.
- [04:16]
Zach
Pop.
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Jase
You know, then here comes another mallard drake. Pop. So I left. We had, I only hunted an hour and a half, got the hole set up, wanted to see if I was right. Yeah, that's right. But my wife is coming in. She's been gone eight days with, had a little grandson birthday party that I, I got to FaceTime. Isn't that, isn't that cool?
- [04:39]
Jason
Yeah. Now you can still participate.
- [04:41]
Jase
And so here's what she tells me last night during the FaceTime. She said, Babe, do you realize the storm of the century is coming? And I was like, oh yeah, baby. I'm looking at the weather. I know she was acting like I wouldn't have known that. But she's like, well, we're out of firewood. And this year we waited a little late. Usually I have this guy cut me some wood, but he's like, have no wood. So I'm like, I'm a man who needs to pay for firewood. I have chainsaws, I'll cut the wood. So I cut enough, I thought for the winter. And I was like, what do you mean we're out of wood? And so I go outside and look, she's burned all the wood without my knowledge. I don't know where I was during all these fires. I mean I remember three or four. So I was like, you know what? My baby's coming in the storm of the century. So I shoot these ducks. I left 30 minutes early to come here. I go saw up a tree on my way in the rain, fill up my Argo, then move it to my truck and. Cause, you know, gotta have a fire if it's gonna be 20 degrees out.
- [05:55]
Zach
Yeah.
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Jase
And so I did that and then I went and got me some breakfast and then I showed up here and then I got a text as soon as it pulled up. They had had three more teal and another mallard drake. So the. The.
- [06:09]
Zach
I think your wife though, I think Missy is anticipating maybe like a romantic weekend. You guys are cuddled up by the fire, but you've got. It seems to me that you may have a different agenda than she has, which could create quite a. The problem once she realizes what's going to happen.
- [06:26]
Jase
Well, Zach, you're smarter than you look. You put it together because now look, we'll have the romantic honeymoon because we're married. That's what people do. So. But then old Jace is going to have to beat the storm to go down there to hunt. And then it may be days before I get out of there, depending on the severity of this storm. Now no Jace for my wife is trouble, but no Jace and no fire. And then we got. We got a problem. So I'm gonna.
- [06:52]
Zach
So y' all got. Yeah, you gotta get that set up because you're gonna have to plan because in Louisiana, and it's not just Louisiana, it's the whole South. I mean it's like. I mean the storms coming through and it is going to lock everything up. And if you live I20 below, you really don't have the infrastructure or the mechanisms to deal with weather like this. So. Yeah, the roads will be iced over the power lines. It's going to be.
- [07:19]
Jase
Don't sell us short. I. I would say half the. The yuppie we. We were inundated with yuppies. But you know, that chainsaw is now in the back of my truck and it will stay there for the foreseeable future. Man can do a lot with four wheel drive and a chainsaw.
- [07:35]
Zach
That is true.
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Jase
America winch too.
- [07:39]
Jason
Yeah. But Zach's talking about you go up north and you, you know, they've learned how to salt the roads and you know, make it where they're back out and about when we get iced up and locked up, we're. We're just locked up until the Almighty brings some old sun back into play to melt.
- [07:56]
Zach
Well, we're kind of. We're kind of in that weird spot in North Carolina where it's a little in between so we can deal with a little bit. But this is going to even probably lock North Carolina down. Although I'm probably going to head out in a four wheel drive. I'm. I'm going to get my pickup truck. I think I'm going to drive down. I was going to fly, but I think I'm going to drive down on this.
- [08:16]
Jase
If you get here on Friday, you will participate in one of the greatest waterfowl excursions of your life.
- [08:26]
Jason
I mean, you're in. Zach.
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Zach
Yeah, I mean that, that's. What about the crawfish pie? Do you ever figure out what we're gonna do about that?
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Jason
Yeah. Cause Missy's back in town now we.
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Zach
Know we gotta make him in advance. I'll bring a microwave and a generator. And I'll bring a microwave. And because I got a little portable generator I can bring with me too.
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Jase
Let me describe our relationship. I'm not a middleman for I don't make crawfish pies. My wife does now we're one. But if you want her to make a crawfish pie, you're going to have to broach that deal yourself.
- [08:59]
Zach
Okay, fair enough.
- [09:01]
Jase
I mean, I think if you bring her some flowers and something nice and say, hey, I bought a crawfish pie, that's what I would do if I were you.
- [09:11]
Jason
So, Jase, it's a new year. Maybe we just should do some things that invest in our future and be intentional. And that's our kids and our grandkids.
- [09:18]
Jase
Well, that should be a new life resolution. Reading very spiritual, godly books to your kids. And my wife, she happens to be an author of a brave book called because youe're My Family, which is all about the unconditional love of God.
- [09:37]
Jason
Yeah. And she's. She along with a lot of other authors, including Jeff and Jessica, who wrote Dear Valor, which is an awesome story about adoption and what it means to be chosen. They teach messages like courage, forgiveness, fruit of the spirit. And each one has a conversation starter and it has games in the back to bring the whole family together. So we love it. We. We're a brave book family, all of us are. We want you to get in on this, to be able to have a great year, to instill things in your kids and your Grandkids. Now, when you subscribe, you'll get a new book every month plus Mrs. Book that Jay's mentioned. And Jeff and Jessica's books are free. That's two free books right off the bat. Let this be the year you start fun and purposeful new family routines. Just go to bravebooks.com unashamed. Use the code unashamed to get 20% off your first order. That's bravebooks.com unashamed code. Unashamed for 20% off. But, Zach, luckily for you, you are staying with one person who now is going to be home because I'm coming home early to beat the storm who has a little thing called generac.
- [10:52]
Zach
Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. My sister's like, we're going to be going down there and sitting in the cold. Nobody's gonna have power. I was like, whoa, no power.
- [11:02]
Jason
I learned from that last hurricane that shut us down for a week that, oh, Al needed a generac. And so that's what I got. That's power that will power our house to have heat and food and everything we need.
- [11:13]
Zach
So we're ripping from the headlines right now. I mean, this is what everybody's talking about is this ice storm and.
- [11:19]
Jason
And a clash of worlds. I thought the same thing because Jace was describing Missy and his romantic idea versus the duck hunting idea. And it's a colliding of worlds, which, you know, is a lot of what you see going on in our world.
- [11:35]
Zach
Well, yeah, and what's happening in First John? I mean, he's really talking about two worlds that were once together, separated, now coming back together in the new heaven, new earth. So.
- [11:47]
Jase
Oh, good lead in, Zach.
- [11:49]
Zach
That's a good lead in. And the light comes in, right when things. You feel like you're out of control. You can't drive around anywhere. Everything's falling apart, you know, storms. Storms will disrupt you. I mean, we had the hurricane up here and it was so disruptive. Now, this thing right here, we're going to find out, but you know what the. What the cold storm of the century.
- [12:07]
Jase
That.
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Zach
That's a big promise. We'll find out.
- [12:09]
Jason
We're in First John 2 and we were. We've been in this kind of camping out in verses one and two. But I thought was interesting, Zach, because we had talked about this concept of advocate, you know, where Jesus is described as like, you know, someone might say a defense attorney, but someone who stands in the gap. Jason described as mediator. And I love that idea because, you know, this is the idea of true what true justice looks like is when, when we understand what the world was originally created for instead of kind of what it became. And I think you see that all the time. If you look around, just, you know, you look at instances that are happening. Trump's a lot in the news right now because of, you know, he wants Greenland and now he's flying over to Switzerland to talk about it and they're all mad at him about it. And this old allies. And it seems like everywhere you turn, everybody's kind of making their case for what they want from the world. And so you just got skirmishes everywhere. I mean, we got things going on internally over immigration. We got, I mean, think about. Jason, you talked about waterfowl coming from Canada, going to Mexico. So we had a whole immigration thing that happened on our southern border and we're fighting it out in Minnesota. It's just, it just seems so strange to me that how these pockets of conflict come in. It's like everybody trying to stress what, what they want the world to look like. And I mean, and all that points to exactly what we see here is so relevant, something that was written 2000 years ago in painting a picture of what happens when you have a world without the true advocate. And that's without, you know.
- [13:53]
Zach
Well, yeah, because, yeah, if you look at the headlines, then it's not an advocate.
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Jase
It's.
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Zach
Everything is accusatory. It's this accusation accus. It's like whiplash, too. I mean, they've been looking at the market. I mean, the market drops 800 points on and then it pops back up, you know, and you're, you're trying to keep up with all of this. And it really, it, it, it's, I think it's created a lot of anxiety for a lot of people trying to figure out what in the war. And you get so bought in and, and been out of shape of what is going on in the geopolitical sphere. When you, but you read a text like this and you're like, man, Christ, man, we have an advocate. There is an accuser that's coming after us. We have an advocate. We don't have to get so bought into all that. I mean, there's something very peaceful about reading through first John and understanding what exactly we're being invited into. It's the complete opposite of what you see with worldly kingdoms and power.
- [14:50]
Jason
Well, and even you mentioned it before, the situation that happened at that church up in gathering of the church up in Minnesota. And you saw people come in and they were protesting about immigration and enforcement of law, ICE people. But you saw. It was such a clash of worlds that it doesn't. It didn't even make sense. I finally saw the video of it, and I watched it because I thought people gathered there to hear God's word, to worship together, to commune together, to, you know, have this fellowship time. And then usually it sends you back out to try to impact the world around you. And then all of a sudden, the world outside came crashing in, literally crashing into the room, and it was just chaos. It was like. It was such a picture of what we're describing here, of the colliding worlds. And. And it didn't. It didn't make any sense either way. I thought, why are they even in there? What do they do? I. And I guess they did what they planned. They got headlines, and they were, you know, all over the news. But it just. In the moment of watching it, I just couldn't help but feel for that pastor that's standing up there and he's trying to bring some kind of order, and he's. He's telling, this is unseemly. You can't be doing this. And people are yelling, the kids are crying, and it was just like, this looks like pure chaos. And that really is a description to me of what happens, darkness versus light. I mean, just. It was obvious to me.
- [16:12]
Zach
Well, what he says in First John 1, he.
- [16:15]
Jason
He.
- [16:16]
Zach
That contrast is made pretty clear when he said that God is light. In him there is no darkness at all. So you read a passage like that, like First John 1:5, you think, what does that mean? That God is light, and in him there's no darkness at all. What does that look like? Well, it looks like the very next two verses, which is. He says, if we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie. We don't practice the truth.
- [16:41]
Jase
But.
- [16:42]
Zach
But if we do walk in the light, if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have not division. We don't have isolation, we don't have chaos. We have Bible says, fellowship with one another. And the blood of Jesus, his Son, cleanses us from all sin. So you can kind of back into what the promise of Christ is here and participation inside the Godhead, which Jason did a really good job in the last few podcasts just talking about John 17. But that participation in the inner life of God, what it looks like is fellowship. It looks like sitting around hanging out, killing ducks, and it looks like sitting around a fire with your wife and eating crawfish. Pie. It looks like family together. It looks like friends getting together. That's what it is. It's not the vision and ripping apart and accusations at all. It's quite the opposite of that. So what we're being invited into, the story that John's inviting us into is ultimately a story of fellowship with God first and then with one another and.
- [17:42]
Jason
When the relationship is right. Did you hear, Jason J. You, you were exuding confidence that you were describing a situation where you knew you're going to have this situation with Missy coming home. And yet your relationship is at a place, you know, there's a little bit of angst because you're going to go kill those ducks, but you have confidence that at the end of the day, you guys are fine. It's not like, you know, we're going to have a major split over because I went duck hunting when Missy came home. That's confidence in a relationship.
- [18:14]
Jase
And I will offer a peace offering. I came sacrificially atonement. If you would have seen me when I walked in this room, I was covered with dirt, mud, smeared face paint. I've been cutting trees for my wife in the rain. So I had a quick change and I'm going to. She thinks we're out of wood, but, you know, the back of my truck right now is full and I did it. There was a one little 30 minute window where it wasn't just pouring. And so it's relatively dry wood, but. And it's being cured, so it'll. But see, I'm gonna drop that as a surprise when she would.
- [19:08]
Zach
Is that the burnt offering?
- [19:09]
Jason
That's the burnt offering.
- [19:11]
Zach
You're living.
- [19:12]
Jase
I'm living this out.
- [19:13]
Zach
You're living this out.
- [19:14]
Jase
Romans 12 Offer your bodies as living sacrifice. So I sacrificed that because I'm sore. I'm sore right now. I mean, if you just follow me around, people talking about, oh, we need to go work out and all this work out. I've walked three miles today and cut down a tree and cut that up. And I've got supper and we got the best teal, which are gifts from God. So. Now look, I want to back up to our last podcast. We never finished this Hebrews Road. However, since we're so energetic today and Maddie said we were getting a little deep, but we had to get technical. But I'm glad she said that because the reason we're doing all this is because we're already leaking over into it in this podcast. It's like, well, what does this mean? What does it mean having fellowship with the King of Kings who is seated on a heavenly throne right now that gives us access to God through the Holy Spirit. What it should mean is we should be a different kind of human. And I want to read something to you. And y' all probably figure out where I'm going with this because I think there's two letters that kind of go in with what we're reading in one John and the two letters are the letter to the Ephesians. Because it seems like Paul has zeroed in there on what God is doing now with Jesus exalted at the right hand of God. And I want to read that, read a couple of notations. And then the Hebrew writer seems to put an emphasis on. And al you had done in the notes, I saw somewhere that you had had that word where he's a sin offering. What was that in your notes? Which word was that? That Jesus being our sin offering. We tend to think only of the cross, but it's also in the context in Hebrews where he appears before God himself.
- [21:34]
Zach
If you've been waiting for the right time to buy a home, honestly, this might be it. You know, I've bought quite a few homes over the years. It's been one of the primary tools for Jill and I kind of building out our nest egg for retirement. It's been through the homes that we purchased. So the market looks a lot different than it did even just a year ago because there's a lot more inventory on the market, there's bidding, the bidding wars have all cooled off and buyers finally have a little bit of breathing room, which means you get more choices, more negotiating power and more control over the deal. But here's the cash. It's not going to last forever. As inflation eases and the rate cuts get closer, more buyers are going to jump back into the market. And when they do, competition will heat up fast and prices usually go up. So that's why being prepared now it really does matter. And that's where my friends Andrew and Todd at Union Home Mortgage come in. Over 40 years of experience, really there is no pressure, there's no guesswork. Plus they handle everything in household. So whether you're a first time home buyer trying to figure out how to qualify or self employed or just trying to show your income or looking to refi to lower your debt or whatever you guys want to talk to. Andrew and Todd, I know these guys personally. We actually met at a worship event in Monroe, Louisiana. They are the real deal. You know, look, it's really important to work with someone who does share the same values as you do. So you guys can get started today at andrewandtodd.com that's andrewandtod.com or call 8881172 or visit andrewandtod.com or call 88888 1172. These are the guys that I trust and you can count on.
- [23:07]
Jason
Yeah, it's Hillasmos, meaning propitiation. And in the old. And it's also in First John 4, 10. And the Roots are the Ram of Atonement, which is in numbers 5, 8, and also in Zeke 44, a sin offering. So that's the word.
- [23:25]
Jase
So you just think about him being at the right hand of God on our behalf, doing the talking for us. And this Ephesians to tie into what y' all are talking about. Well, because you start looking around, you see this stuff going on in Minnesota, and you just think of all the division on the globe between people and even in our own lives, in our own hearts, at different times of our life, you're like, what is wrong with these people? How come we can't get along? Because John in one, John is going to move to. Okay, you have this fellowship with the Godhead, and that should trickle down or influence your fellowship with other beings, human beings, you should love one another, not hate each other. And he then goes into. When we get to this little song in chapter two, or poem that he has at the end, it's all of these relationships about your children and young men and father, and you're like, dear children, what is he talking about? So your relationship with God should affect your relationship with other people? I think that's the truth here.
- [24:43]
Jason
Yeah.
- [24:43]
Jase
Are we all agreement on that? I mean, it should.
- [24:48]
Zach
It will. It's funny you say that, because we. Jill and I were having a conversation this past week about a. We got to be careful how to say this. There was an issue with some people that we know that they had a conflict. Two friends have a conflict, and one of the. They're not Christians.
- [25:08]
Jase
And.
- [25:09]
Zach
But we're friends with all these people. But we were talking through this with them, and it was interesting that they didn't have quite the mechanism for forgiveness. I mean, they didn't have that. That reconciliatory underpinning of their whole, like. And so me and Jill, like, yeah, you just. You figure it out. People grow. You know what? But. But then we realized as we're having this conversation, we're like, they don't understand what we're about. And the reason why they don't understand what we're talking about is because we were talking about things of the Spirit, like long suffering with people, just endless grace for people. You know, of leaning in and watching someone grow and, you know, allowing yourself to. Yeah. Sometimes you'll get hit in the face and you turn the other cheek. These are biblical ideas, but more than that, these are ideas that are born of the Spirit. So the natural mind has a hard time understanding them. But honestly, Jace, I don't think that I could have the relationships that I do have if I first and foremost didn't have the participation in the inner life of God. Because I wouldn't even know what it was. I wouldn't have a framework.
- [26:17]
Jason
Which is why, Zach, that you remember that scene that we talked about when we were studying the Book of John where Jesus breathes the Holy Spirit into his disciples. And you remember the first thing he said upon breathing that into them was you. You will. You will be able to forgive people and. Yeah, and the inclination is. And they will be able to forgive you. So it's really interesting. That's the first place Jesus went with his disciples. Now, being recipients of the Holy Spirit is to your point, you have the capacity of forgiveness. And I'm telling you something, that's the key to any relationship. It will not work without that at the center of it. And when you don't have that built in naturally, because the Holy Spirit's living in you, you're right. It is built. Very problematic because the natural thing for us to do as human beings is to be bitter, to be envious, to have all the things to go scorched earth on scorched earth and punish.
- [27:15]
Zach
Burn it down and punish and accuse. James, I got a question for you, though, because you said you started down a train, a trail of thought, but you kind of got sidetracked. You said. I wrote it down. You said, this is about what God is doing now. And I was going to ask you, you look at what's going on in the world around us, and sometimes it seems chaotic. How do you. What would be your answer if it's about what God's doing now? Somebody says, well, I'm looking at what's happening in the world. I'm like, this ain't looking too good. I tell you.
- [27:48]
Jase
Perfect question for what I want to read. What is he doing now? And so I'm going to. I'm going to delay going through the rest of Hebrews. We will get to that at some point to ask that question. What is he doing now? What does this got to do with one John? We had already set the premise up of the blueprint of humanity by God is wisdom. We went through that. But there's also a blueprint from what God is doing now, and it's the word courage. And you remember when John 16, I think it's 33, where this is right after he talked about pouring out his spirit and he said, take courage, for I have overcome the world.
- [28:38]
Jason
Yeah. Which is the thing that's going to be seen a lot in first John. Right.
- [28:42]
Jase
So what I'm proposing on what we're doing now, we should be the most courageous humans, those who are in Christ. And where is he at? At the right hand of God. And he and us, through his spirit, we have access to the creator of the world. So before I read this in Ephesians, also, to answer your question, the reason we went through two or three podcasts are so technical. I think we just read these verses and it doesn't hit us. So I wanted to, because Maddie helped me see this by saying, well, this is deep. I want you to think about something that all these passages that we've been going through, they have something in common. Jesus, when he's the word that became flesh. Well, don't forget that in John 1, it said in the beginning, you know, God was with the word, God was the Word. You know, the Word became flesh. But in between there it says, nothing that has been created was created without Him. So you think, well, wait a minute here. Because we tend in religion to say, oh, I need to live my life for Jesus. Which is correct. But you got to remember something. He made you. So when you start realizing that all these conversations God had in Jesus on The earth is 33 years, even with Pilate, to people who hated him, to people who wanted to stone him, he's looking at people that he made. He made them to represent him, to bring out the best in them. So I think it's a combination of those two things, wrapping your head around that God had a plan for each individual or he wouldn't have given you life. And then so he made you, and then he wants you to live for Him. So when you combine those two things, all of a sudden you start thinking, well, what was the problem? Where did this thing go wrong? And that's when you start looking at yourself. Because when you were a baby, like every other baby, everything was rocking and rolling. Beautiful creation. Where did it all go wrong? And so that's why Jesus came down. So not only did he make you, and with a purpose in mind, then he made you for him. So that's why that little phrase in Christ, it's not that he just cleaned you up, he cleaned you up for him. And so that's where the courage comes in here.
- [31:23]
Jason
I think that's such a smart point because the rest of that verse in 1 John 2, which is he is the atoning sacrifice. And we're talking about that for our sins, not only for ours, but also for the sins of the whole world. And I think that shows the uniqueness of God. Every one that's created is created in the image of God, whether they believe in God or not.
- [31:46]
Jase
Yeah, you were made in him, maybe is the better way to say it. And for him is what I'm getting at. You're made in him, and then for.
- [31:54]
Jason
Him, which is the difference in what you see in movements in the world. Like right now you have, you know, Trump as the figure in America and the world and all these clashes and there's Maga, you know, which I just so happen to wear makeup, make marriage great again, hat today. But it's, the idea is there's a movement, but it's, it's really, it's all links back to Maga, right? Everything's Maga this, Maga that. So the rest of the world, if you're not Maga, then you know, there's these clashes and conflicts. And man, what is this guy doing? He's trying to take Greenland and blah, blah, blah, and you got all the things going on. And so that's the inner skirmishes of the world. But from a God perspective, he offers a kingdom concept that's greater than all that. It's bigger. And you can still be Maga and you can still be socialist, democrat or whatever you want to be politically, but you have an opportunity to be forgiven, to be redeemed, to have the Holy Spirit of God living in you, to understand forgiveness and be able to talk about these things. So I just think the bigness and the vastness of it is so big. To your point about Ephesus and the Ephesian letter, I think it bolsters your point about some of the similarities because John spent, most scholars agree John spent probably the last 20 years of his life until he was exiled to Patmos, living in Ephesus and a part of that church that was there. So I, I think that's why some of those themes are so prevalent back in the forth. Go ahead, Zach.
- [33:25]
Zach
Yeah, I just going to say that when you read a verse like that, that Christ is the propitiation for our sin, and not only for ours, but also for the sins of the whole world. As you start thinking about that whole unfolding throughout all of Scripture, that God's calling all the nations to himself, by the way, it's in the entire Old Testament, it's unavoidable. God has an intention, God has a purpose. God says, I want the nations. One of the things you have to be careful about is that you don't forget that in your own nation. And so like, we can be patriots and we could love this country, but at the same time we. And I am a citizen of this country, I love this country. I'm a patriot, I'm a conservative, I'm a free market guy. Go down the list. I mean, I've got the pedigree, you know what I mean? But first and foremost, I am part of the kingdom of God. So I read a verse like this and I think about the whole earth, the whole world. God's saying, I want all of them. I want everybody. My kingdom is a kingdom that's like the wind. You can't see where it's moving or where it's coming from. It's just kind of. It's just kind of this thing. And the way that that kingdom expands is through the vice regents that he's put in charge, which is us, the body of Christ and the Spirit filled believers. So that goes back to what Jace was talking about like that. That's where your courage comes from. Your courage doesn't come from your own ability to somehow manhandle and negotiate on a stage somewhere. This isn't about our ability to negotiate. We are actually coming in under the rule and reign of Christ. And so because of that, we can have a lot of courage despite what's going on anywhere in the world. Exactly.
- [35:10]
Jase
That's where I was going with this. So Ephesians 1:4 says, he chose us in him before the creation of the world. And that was my point about we're made in Him. Nothing that has been made that's been made was made without Jesus. We're going back to John 1:3. Well, then it says in verse nine and ten he made known to us the mystery of his will. What does God want for us, which he purposed in Christ to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment, to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head. Christ. So he's at the right hand of God bringing all things. And so how is he going to do that. Well, in verse 13, it says, after we hear the Gospel, the word of truth, we believe we're marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit. He gets to chapter one in verse 19 and 20 and says that power is like the working of his mighty strength. To your point, Zach, about where we get our courage, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms. Verse 22. And God placed all things under his, his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the Church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way. Look at Ephesians 2:6. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms, in Christ Jesus. That's why I want to go through Hebrews, because it continues to say that he went in on our behalf, representing us, making him King of Kings. So you're like, well, what does that mean? Well, he made us in him and he showed what he did for us, to reconcile us. And then he gets in to what he made us for. And that's. This is where I wanted to get to. Ephesians 2:14, it says, for he Himself is our peace. Who has made the two one? He's talking about two groups of people, either Jews or Gentiles. Either you're from Israel or you're not. But watch what he says. He has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility. You say, oh, is there hostility between races and groups in our culture? We just said that. What's wrong with these humans? We can't get along. It's not just Jew and Gentile, it's Gentiles within Gentiles. It's either skin color or social status.
- [38:23]
Zach
What political sign do you.
- [38:24]
Jase
Political power party. Yeah, all these differences that we just don't like each other. There's a wall of hostility. Well, he's like, I destroyed. I took that down in Christ. And watch what he says. I want to get that. 15. But he destroyed it by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. You're like, he took away this, the rule system of law. What is he talking about? His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two. And those two include all sorts of divisions, thus making peace. And in this one body, which he called the church in chapter one 22. But now he's calling it a new humanity. He also calls it the Bride of Christ. Look, he's going to say in chapter three, he's going to call it the family of God. Which is what? First, John kind of zeroes in on all these family dynamic relationships, and then he applies it to us. God is the architect of family. So then he says, and in this one body, verse 16 of chapter 2, to reconcile, to bring back. Which reconcile is different than just forgiveness, because sometimes we have to forgive other people, but that doesn't mean we're ever going to be reconciled. Because what if they're abusing you or they're demonic or toxic, whatever you want to say. But God's doing both. Not only does he forgive you, he can reconcile you to God through the cross and put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away, which is always referring to the Gentiles and peace to those who were near the Jews. Now here's the key verse. For through him we both have access to the Father by one spirit. So you see this whole thing working together. Jesus is at the right hand of God. We're with Him. We've surrendered to Him. He sent his spirit into our hearts. Well, there's heaven and earth coming together, filling everything in every way. Heaven and earth on the planet. That should make you courageous, because then it says, we're no longer foreigners, aliens. We're fellow citizens with God's people and members of his house. Now, if that doesn't affect your relationships in your regular house, something's wrong. Yeah, I think that's the chasm that I wanted to zero in. And the reason we went through all that technical stuff is because John is writing this saying. What are you talking about? You're fellowshipping with God. You're members of his household, you have His Holy Spirit, yet you hate your brother or your sister or your wife. Or you're barking at your wife and treating her like she's not even a real human. That's what he's zeroing in on.
- [41:50]
Zach
I want to reiterate and kind of put some more texture to a point you're making, particularly as it relates to one John. Because the verse we were talking about in one John was that. See, what does it say again? First John 2. Okay, yeah. He has a propitiation for our sins, and not only for ours, but also for the sins of the whole world. And I'd mentioned that whole. That whole eschatology thing of God bringing Jew and gentile together. Then you went to Ephesians and you had mentioned the mystery of God's will. Right? He's letting us in on what his will is. And then you had talked about the erasing of, the tearing down of the dividing wall of hostility between Jew and Gentile, which obviously is way more than just Jew and Gentile. It's the wall of hostility between people. Right? God wants all people. That's always been his intention. Well, listen to this. This is so how it relates to that idea of the sins of the world later on in ephesians, in Ephesians 3, Paul continues to talk about this mystery of God's will. And he said how the mystery was made known by revelation. So whatever that mystery was that God's going to reveal, Paul says it's actually been made known by what God has revealed, as I have written briefly. So when you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ. But it's not a mystery anymore because he says it was made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. So I think he's talking about this thing was revealed a long time ago, but people missed it. It's always been there, but they missed it. But now it's been revealed very clearly to the apostles. And here's what it is. Verse 6 of Ephesians 3. This is the mystery. This mystery is. So whatever's going to come next is the mystery. This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the Gospel. And that mystery, he says, has been hidden for ages. But now through the Church, the manifold wisdom of God is going to be made known to the world. So whatever you think about hostility, the dividing wall of hostility, this goes far beyond Jew and Gentile. This is the dividing wall of hostility in humanity. And what he's saying is it is through the Church that that kind of reconciliation is going to spread into the end of the globe. And so for that reason I'm like, number one, we can have the confidence that you just talked about Jace. And number two, we got a job to do, we got something to do. We're not just sitting back twiddling our thumbs. We have something to do. And that fires me up right there, I'm telling you.
- [44:47]
Jase
Well, what, what was the manifold what of God in verse?
- [44:50]
Zach
Manifold.
- [44:51]
Jase
The manifold wisdom of God should be made known. Well, how are you going to make it known? Well, isn't it interesting that when he gets to chapter 6 and verse 10, after he talked about all these family relationships, can you imagine these people reading this letter under Roman rule with all this division as Far as Jews and Gentiles and under Roman rule and all the different classes of people, you know, they had a whole different system with the families and with slaves and masters and all these things. And they're reading this, they're like, you're destroying the whole earthly setup and bringing all people together and all these dividing lines that we experience, prejudice and hatred and all these different things based on what people and bringing people together. And then after that, he says in chapter 6, verse 10, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God. I mean, it means a lot more when you read the whole letter and say, here they are thinking, you know, they're fearful of Roman power. And he's like, you're connected to God. You're seated with Jesus in the heavenly realms, and you have his spirit in you. And whatever your differences were, we nailed them to the cross.
- [46:24]
Jason
They're gone.
- [46:25]
Jase
That's why Paul, I think, did the same thing in Romans when he talked about, you know, we have this one world, we're all like, Adam. We screw things up and it takes you back to the garden. You remember Adam and Eve. I mean, everybody's happy, you know, and he's like, flesh of my flesh and bones of my bones. And then the next thing after the fruit, it's like, it was her fault, you know, and she's like, well, it was that it was the snake's fault. I mean, and it just destroys the relationship that they had with each other because now they didn't trust God. And so I think you see that same point in. First, John, your relationship with God has to be the reflection into your wife, your kids, your friends, the people you work with. It should affect your humanity because you're involved in a new humanity within the old humanity on earth.
- [47:21]
Jason
Zach, you said you quoted Ephesians 3:10 through the church, the manifold wisdom of God to be seen in this process. And I just saw a story yesterday. We started this podcast talking some about what's been going on in Minnesota. And I saw where, you know, once the protesters left, that group of people that were meeting, I mean, I had not seen this anywhere else. And they said they went ahead and then had the meeting they were going to have before the disruption. And in that meeting together and trying to kind of calm everybody down, what did we just go through? They prayed, and then someone in that group led them in a prayer to forgive all of the people that just came in and disrupted their assembling together. And so, you know, that was never reported. I didn't see that much until yesterday someone told that story. And I thought, that is that picture we're talking about. I mean, that is the idea of what you have the capacity to do even when you're wrong. Because that was wrong for them to do that. It was wrong for them to come in there. They still had the capacity to say, but in Jesus name, we forgive you for that.
- [48:28]
Zach
Well, because you know what, what we want though, and there's. And I want this, I'll be honest with you. Like, I see something like that and I'm like, who? I get my temperature, I start boiling a little bit, my blood pressure goes up and I'm like, I'm ready, like, let's go. But you're right though, when you think about that verse that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might be made known to the rulers and to the authorities in the heavenly places. I read a verse like that and I think, well, do you think that there are demonic forces that are over nations that are actually orchestrating some of this? I believe so. I think the Bible is pretty clear that there are. There's a celestial, there's, that. There's that divine council that Michael Heiser talks about. There's, you know, this is not just an earthly, like physical thing here like these. There's a, there's a cooperation in the heavenly realms of evil that is orchestrating and working in conjunction with some of the stuff that we see in the world today. And you think, man, how do we battle against something like that? It's because God says it's through the church. Paul says to the church, this manifold wisdom is going to be made known. Just like they have spiritual forces on the side of evil that they're working in conjunction with, we also have a spirit force called the Holy Spirit that we are working not just in cooperation with. The Holy Spirit actually lives in us. And so when you think about his fruit and what his fruit looks like, Galatians 5. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self control. You go through the list of the fruit of the Holy Spirit, then you're like, how in the world are we going to combat that? Well, we're going to combat it through the fruit of the Spirit. And that's what we're embodying. So it's a very difficult thing for us to walk in because what we want to do is we either want to capitulate and be like, I'm not going to confront that, it's going to cost me too much. Or we say on the other side that I'm just going to go scorched earth. But it's very, very difficult to stay in the gap, which is where the prophet stayed, to stay in the gap and let the Holy Spirit lead. Because when you do that, what you're essentially doing is you're. You're yielding over your control to God instead, and you're saying, God, I trust you to lead. And it's through that, that sacrificial life that we're going to change the world. I mean, that's. That's what Jesus did. Look at the Roman Empire. He brought down the Roman Empire, but look at how he did it, just by embodying sacrificial love. They crucified him on a cross, but yet in the end, that empire fell. Christ still reigns.
- [51:12]
Jason
And Zach is that picture of Jesus standing there in John 18 with the most powerful person from the most powerful nation standing in front of me. He said, everyone on the side of truth, Truth listens to me. And he gave Pilate that opportunity in that moment to do the right thing. And you remember Pilate's response. What is truth?
- [51:32]
Zach
Is truth.
- [51:32]
Jason
Yeah. And so it comes back to the idea about, I'm not going to go that route. So I guess we're out of time. But I will say an encouragement to you guys out there. You see the things going on in the world. You watch all this stuff and you're thinking, oh, man, how are we. How are we going to survive this? Remember, we have overcome the world. That's what. That's the message from Ephesians. It's also the message from First John. We have overcome the world through our faith in Christ. So we win is the point. And so don't be discouraged. So keep fighting the fight. We'll see you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.