Ep 1253 | The Robertsons Reject “Us vs. Them” in the Wake of Minnesota Protests

Summary

Unashamed with the Robertson Family

Ep 1253 | The Robertsons Reject “Us vs. Them” in the Wake of Minnesota Protests
Date: January 22, 2026
Hosts: Phil (not present), Al, Jase (Jason), Zach
Location: West Monroe, Louisiana

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on how Christians should respond to division, chaos, and entitlement in the world, particularly in light of recent protests in Minnesota. The Robertsons dig into what it means to live out one's faith practically—being a "calm in the storm" and rejecting the "us vs. them" mentality—focusing on peace, responsibility, humility, and real relationships over mere religious claims. Drawing from personal stories, parenting lessons, and biblical references (especially Ephesians and 1 John), the discussion weaves together humor, honesty, and deep spiritual insight.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Being the Calm in the Storm: Faith Amidst Chaos

• The episode opens with lighthearted banter about hunting in dangerous weather and living with chaos—metaphors for meeting life’s storms with faith.
• The group draws parallels between duck hunting in Louisiana storms and spiritual resilience:
  • Jase: “That’s what we’re called to be. Be the eye in the storm." (00:53)
  • Jason recalls the Biblical story of Jesus and Peter on the water: the importance of courage and trust when life is tumultuous. (01:02)
• Al: “We are the calm in the storm.” (00:24)

2. Authentic Christian Living vs. Empty Claims

• The hosts identify a gap between claiming faith and embodying it, especially in relationships:
  • Jason: “You’re fellowshipping with the Lord God through Jesus… but your relationships on earth with other people are not reflecting that.” (13:48)
• The Bible must translate into daily life—especially love, humility, and vulnerability within families and communities.
• Notable Quote:
  • Jason: “We claim to love God but you don’t love your brother, you don’t love your family, you don’t love your kids...that won’t work. That’s darkness, not truth.” (17:22)

3. Vulnerability, Apology, and Humility in Relationships

• Jason shares a personal parenting moment: admitting he was wrong to his son for the first time, breaking generational patterns of pride and silence. (15:44)
• Zach: “That peace of mind… the peace Christ brings by tearing down that dividing wall of hostility.” (18:42)
• Honesty and apology transform relationships and reflect genuine spiritual maturity.

4. Gratitude vs. Entitlement: Responding to a “Me-Focused” World

• The conversation tackles modern entitlement culture, referencing advertising’s role in reinforcing “you deserve this” attitudes. (33:20)
• Jason draws from a sermon: The battle isn’t just with the world but within oneself and one’s kids—from “self to others” and “entitlement to gratitude.” (29:57)
• Al: “Entitlement is the thing…It’s probably one of our default postures.” (30:54)
• Societal and spiritual peace is impossible where entitlement and self-focus are dominant.

5. Self-Control, Responsibility, and Enduring Discomfort

• They discuss the importance of cultivating “impulse to self-control,” “comfort to responsibility,” and “achievements to faithfulness,” particularly in parenting and discipleship. (34:24; 36:59; 39:09)
• Jason: “If you’re out there, out loud and proud that Jesus is your King… there’s just going to be a lot of uncomfortable moments.” (37:46)
• “Pulling back the comfort” and letting young people experience responsibility helps them grow spiritually and practically. (40:25)

6. Family Roles and Reflective Parenting

• The idea of parenting stages (discipline, training, coaching, friendship) and adapting one’s approach for each child’s maturity. (27:01)
• The relationship with God is reflected in every facet of family life, especially how parents embody humility, apology, and love.

7. Rejecting the “Us vs. Them” Mentality

• The Robertsons critique how protests can devolve into “my rights versus your rights,” reinforcing division and entitlement rather than dialogue and coexistence. (31:11; 32:40)
• Al: “We have a responsibility to our fellow citizens, to the people that we don’t agree with, to the people that we live next to…even if they don’t [agree].” (51:15)
• The ultimate tearing down of dividing walls is found in the Gospel’s call to humility, forgiveness, and shared humanity.

8. Scripture Reflections: Ephesians & 1 John

• The team explores how Ephesians and 1 John call believers to bring “heaven to earth” by living new, Spirit-filled lives—tangibly expressed in how we treat family and neighbors.
• Jason: “For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works…” (Ephesians 2:10, 38:37)
• 1 John Key Claims (summarized at 49:31):
  • If we claim to fellowship with God but live in darkness, we are lying.
  • If we claim to be sinless, we are self-deceived.
  • If we claim to love God but hate a brother, we are in darkness.

9. Faithfulness Over Achievements

• Especially in parenting and marriage, faithfulness—not just staying together or outward success—is what matters. (51:43)
• Zach's story: A couple built a literal wall in the middle of their trailer, staying together but in hostility. "That's not faithfulness." (52:03)
• The real tearing down of walls is through forgiveness and love.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Be the eye in the storm.” – Jase (00:53)
• “You have to be kind of vulnerable ... to be honest.” – Jason (15:21)
• “The peace Christ brings [is] by tearing down that dividing wall of hostility.” – Zach (18:42)
• “If you claim to be in the light but hate your brother, you’re still in darkness.” – Jason (44:16)
• “We do not reward illegal or immoral behavior, especially when you do that. What you’re saying is, I’m pulling back the comfort and I’m going to allow you an opportunity to double up responsibility.” – Jason and Zach (40:25)
• “Faithfulness is the key. …Faithfulness is submitting yourself, sacrificing yourself, working, like living in the reality that Christ has tore down the dividing wall of hostility.” – Zach (52:03)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |:----------|:----------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:24 | “Calm in the storm” metaphor opens the theme | | 13:48 | Disconnect between spiritual claims & relationships | | 15:44 | Admitting mistakes to children; generational humility | | 18:42 | Christ’s peace vs. world’s peace; tearing down divisions | | 29:57 | Five transitions in parenting—from self to others, et al | | 33:20 | Entitlement culture and its influence | | 36:59 | Comfort vs. responsibility; facing discomfort intentionally | | 39:09 | Ephesians 2:10—created for good works | | 49:31 | 1 John’s “claims” and living out faith | | 51:43 | Faithfulness in marriage and beyond; illustration of empty union | | 52:03 | Division within marriage; walls come down through love/forgiveness|

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Section Summaries

Hunters, Storms, & the Eye of Faith

The hosts compare dangerous hunting trips to spiritual storms, emphasizing that Christians are "called to be the eye in the storm"—calm, courageous, and anchored in faith, even when the world is volatile.

Family, Humility, and Learning to Apologize

The need for vulnerability and honesty is seen as countercultural, especially in parenting, where humility can break generational patterns and foster reconciliation.

The Danger of Entitlement

Advertising and culture promote self-focus and entitlement, eroding gratitude and responsibility. The need to intentionally train children (and one’s own heart) to move from self-centeredness to gratitude, impulse to self-control, and comfort to accepting responsibility is crucial.

Real Relationships—Rejecting Empty Claims

The conversation explores how authentic relationships must flow from genuine fellowship with God, not just religious routines or recitations. Claims of faith mean nothing if they don’t result in loving, humble, reconciled relationships.

The Gospel as “Wall-Demolisher”

The peace Christ gives is not an award from the world (like the Nobel Peace Prize) but a transformative, wall-demolishing reality that brings together individuals, communities, and even nations—when it’s genuinely lived out.

Faithfulness, Not Just Form

What matters in marriage, parenting, and church life is not rule-keeping or appearances, but spirit-empowered faithfulness, forgiveness, and love.

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Tone and Style

• Honest, sometimes raw, with plenty of humor and self-deprecation
• Bible-based, but practical and self-reflective
• Emphasis on action and modeling over talk or religious “claims”
• Southern flavor—with stories about duck hunting, family, and Louisiana life

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Conclusion

This episode in “Unashamed” uses storms, scripture, and stories to confront cultural and personal divisions, calling Christians to move beyond the “us vs. them” mindset. The hosts challenge listeners toward vulnerability, humility, responsibility, and—above all—faithfulness, urging all to let their relationship with God transform their real-world relationships and tear down walls of hostility in every context.

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Transcript

[Jason]

I am unashamed.

[Zach]

What about you? Jace loves Jace's loving calamity. Storm of the century. Stock market volatility. He operates in chaos.

[Jason]

Yeah, that's what we're called to do. Let's do a podcast about that, buddy. Let's go.

[Zach]

Let's talk about that.

[Jason]

Let's go.

[Al]

That's it.

[Zach]

We just got it right there.

[Al]

That's exactly what we're talking about. We. We are the calm in the storm. That's what we're talk. Talking about.

[Zach]

That'll preach right there. Let's go. We rolling?

[Jason]

Tell you. Me, I'm rolling.

[Zach]

We're already rolling. It's calm in the storm. Jace picks up the computer. He's got his feet kicked back on the desk there. And he said, oh, I didn't realize the stock market's taking another tumble. Which I thought that was a bad thing.

[Jason]

And I love it.

[Al]

Oh, volatility.

[Jason]

Jason, storms are coming. Look, that's what we're called to be. Be the eye in the storm. I.

[Zach]

In the storm.

[Jason]

Jesus is with us. Remember when they were out there and the waves came up and Peter's like, who is it? A ghost? And it is I. He's like, come on in here with me. And he saw the waves and what splash started sinking. Help me, Lord.

[Zach]

Don't freak out. Don't freak out, everybody.

[Jason]

That requires courage, which is where we left off. But, I mean, that's God. What is that phrase? The cheesy phrase. Everybody says, he didn't take you from the storm. He goes with you through it. This is what life is.

[Al]

I feel confident, which is why you can be. Most people are afraid and worry about their stocks and their stores and everything else that's going on. And Jay's is like, let's go shoot some ducks. This is.

[Jason]

Well, that's what I'm saying, Al. I mean, look, everybody, I know there's a verse that says, don't put the Lord God to the test. And we've done that. At this where we hunted this morning. And it was on. It's like old days. Ducks are coming in. It's great. I've hunted there. And Al, you've been there. When these storms reach just epic proportions, whether it's thunderstorms, I feel that thunderstruck in the back of my mind. I don't like that. 45 seconds of it. Because I'm like, al, one of our instructors in the Bible school said, you can't have the thunder. No, he said, you can't bring the thunder until the lightning Strike. And I've had those moments where we've shot ducks and then you immediately put your gun down because you're going to.

[Al]

Get struck by lightning.

[Jason]

Buzzing. But I'm like, these ducks seem to. What about them? They have it way worse. They have no shelter.

[Al]

Yeah. They're flying around in it.

[Zach]

And I think thunder and lightning.

[Jason]

Yeah. I believe the Lord is sending these ducks to die in Christ because we're going to take them. Look, all their regrets. Just think about it. All their regrets. And they're worried and their stresses, and they become a gift from the Almighty to us for rather tasty gifts and.

[Al]

Nerves, as our dear old dad would say. The greatest protein train in mankind's history. The passage of ducks from Canada to Mexico.

[Jason]

And I feel like if I'm like, well, he died duck hunting in a storm. Okay, I can live with that. You know, it's just. I don't mind that being on my raised up.

[Zach]

And the light. The lightning struck him, the thunder.

[Jason]

That's why the. That I've said this before. That's why. The age of life. What is the phrase I'm looking for? The average age of the lifespan. The lifespan. It's a lot. It's a lot lower in Louisiana. I don't know if you knew that. Look it up.

[Al]

I didn't know it, but I've known it in my bones, Jace. Because we live in a place not fit for human habitation.

[Jason]

No, it's because the insanity of the Cajun and redneck world being combined and this kind of wall of hostility brings about us wanting to do crazy things. And in those crazy things of life, guess what? People die.

[Zach]

Well, I'd have to push back. It's not the crazy things. It's what you eat. The problem is type 2 diabetes. That's what's getting Louisiana.

[Jason]

No, I'm going to have to push back.

[Al]

I think it's more than just that.

[Jason]

Being a lifelong Louisiana resident, I'm going to say a lot of it's coming from what you drink. That too.

[Zach]

That's part of it. It's what you drink.

[Al]

Hold my fermented wine and watch this. That's.

[Zach]

Y' all. Watch that old boy. I forgot. His name is Stale Cracker. He's a Louisiana Cajun cook.

[Al]

That's money, dude.

[Zach]

That's money, dude. Put it on a cracker, dude.

[Jason]

Let me.

[Zach]

Why he's cooking.

[Al]

He goes.

[Zach]

While we wait. We hydrate.

[Al]

We hydrate.

[Jason]

Well, let me explain this to all our listeners. Here's. Here's why there's so many storytellers and movie people that come from Louisiana, why they're always doing movies in Louisian. Because people come here and they're like, I can't understand what they're saying. And so there's a rule. I'm going to tell you the rule, and you'll figure it out. If you close your eyes while they're speaking, then it will hit you what they're saying, because you'll say, oh, they're just drunk. Because all Louisiana people, including my family, and I've never been drunk in my life, I'm proud of that. I got that from God, not from myself.

[Al]

And.

[Zach]

But you did drink bourbon once.

[Jason]

Everybody did drink a bourbon.

[Zach]

You did drink a bourbon recently. So we have to tell.

[Al]

That's not true.

[Jason]

Not true. You. You have mischaracterized. What happened. I took one sip.

[Zach]

You drank a bourbon.

[Jason]

No, that's. That's a. There's a sip and there's a drink. I drank a bur. Nope. I took a sip and I put it back down.

[Zach]

Oh, legal estate's coming out now. He's getting back to the mold roots.

[Jason]

I just don't like being mischaracterized. I was gonna drink. He had a little.

[Zach]

He.

[Jason]

Maybe an.

[Zach]

Probably 2 ounces.

[Al]

They call it two fingers, one sip.

[Jason]

Put it down, went, whoa. I don't know how that caught on, which is a lot of things that lead to sinful behavior. I look at it and think, I don't know how that caught on. There's no future in that. It's terrible. And if you think that that's good, that's delusional, just come up with this. It's fire water that you're ingesting and somehow have acquainted yourself to getting used to like it. But that's not good. There's nothing good about that.

[Zach]

You were going somewhere with it.

[Al]

No. You made a good point, though, James, because as you were saying, even if you didn't have the alcohol or the type 2 diabetes, which you have neither the love for either one of those or the pathway that goes there, you're still willing to do crazy things. You're out in a storm. I do it with lightning striking literally all around you because you love to hunt. So you're right. Your point is, even if you're. You don't drink and you eat, you know, don't overeat, you're still going to do crazy things in Louisiana.

[Jason]

I just think when ice storms hit, I get it. Ever, most people, they bundle up and they huddle up yeah.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

And they hunker in their house.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

Well, there's a few people on the planet that say, let's go. Grab the gun, grab the chainsaw, put in the four wheel drive, and we're gonna go shoot some ducks today.

[Zach]

Grab a couple honey buns and a cup of gravy, and let's go.

[Jason]

You know, we're men, we're gonna provide for our loved ones today. And we're gonna go out there, look, I'm gonna have frozen icicles on my beard. Guess what? Nobody's laughing or looking and saying, why do you have a beard? They get it now. I need this for what's fixing to happen. And it's gonna collect.

[Zach]

Push through the sweltering heat of Louisian. The moment that you have prepared for, this is it. This is your Super Bowl.

[Jason]

You know why? Because it makes me thankful.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jason]

The things we take for granted, like a nice hot shower. You'll never enjoy a hot shower unless you go out there and hunt during an ice storm.

[Zach]

That's true.

[Jason]

You get back and you're like, oh, this is living here. This is.

[Zach]

You don't want to get out.

[Al]

So I was thinking, Jason, I was watching the NFL playoffs this last week, and when you, when you watch the guys, usually it's offensive linemen. They'll have a beard, you know, and they'll have long hair. And so they, they don't even have a. They just got their uniform on. They're not wearing any kind of long sleeve. And then you'll see, like the, the other guys, like the, the fast guys and the defensive backs and the running backs, and they're. They're wearing like full body suits, and it's covered up to their eyeballs. And so they have to cover everything with some kind of synthetic to be able to stay warm. And I laughed at that. To your point about the beard, that when you look at these other old boys, they're like, no, God gave me this. And they're the. They're the toughest people on the football field. There's no doubt about it.

[Zach]

Phil always said that if someone came down that he was always prepared for two things.

[Al]

Bible study or a gunfight.

[Zach]

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[Jason]

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[Al]

Look at that.

[Zach]

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[Jason]

I had the privilege of baptizing a right tackle, starting right tackle for the.

[Zach]

NFL who's San Francisco 49ers.

[Jason]

Yeah, 49. I told that story. I might have shared this story, but I thought, man. I mean, this guy talking about a man, he's just a beast of a man. Got a little beard, started a beard. And I'm like, you're out there in the snow. Because after a game one time he sent me a picture. He's out there in the snow, no sleeves on whatsoever. I was like, I cannot believe that you don't wear sleeves. And he's like, well, they doing my job. They'll grab a hold of that. If you have any kind of material, they'll grab a hold of you and then sling you around like a rag doll. And I was like, I just can't believe you're not cold. And he's like, oh, no, they spray some stuff on us on our body. You don't get cold. I'm like, am I just now hearing about this? I did not know there's something you can spray on your skin, according to this fellow, that you don't get cold. So then I thought, oh, I thought you were tough, but now you're cheating.

[Al]

Somebody came up, Jace, you might have to look into finding out what that is. That may be a game changer for the hunting code, because, you know, but.

[Jason]

So I, I hope we, you know, they're not breaking laws or anything.

[Zach]

But yeah, he may be cheating. And you just like, turn oh, boy.

[Al]

Just threw him under the bus.

[Zach]

Sticky fingers or whatever.

[Jason]

Well, let me tell you something. If I threw him under the bus, that bus is in trouble. It better bring it.

[Zach]

Well, you got. Okay, you got, you got petroleum jelly, Vaseline. That'll work. There's thick barrier ointments, aquaphor. The creates a wind barrier.

[Al]

Are you looking at something Googling this.

[Jason]

Stuff in real time?

[Zach]

Hey, Jace, we don't use Google anymore.

[Jason]

Well, to pick up where we left off. If you have the spirit of God, you got the most powerful thing in heaven and earth combined.

[Zach]

And you are to your point, if you have the spirit of God in you're that temple. That's another whole picture that was happening in Ephesians. You become the eye of the storm, like you said. I mean, you like us around you. I mean, which is so true. I mean, I think it's. I'd love for us to even like as we think, go through these scriptures and we're going through First John, what does it mean now for me right now? What is God doing right now?

[Jason]

That's what we zeroed in on and we left off because first John's going to make a transition into. You're fellowshipping with the Lord God through Jesus in the power of the Holy Spirit, but your relationships on earth with other people are not reflecting that. Yeah, that's really the thought for the day and for this podcast, I think for me, because look, even in my own life I've seen where I've really struggled about that. There's a disconnect because think about it. What would you say if I just asked y' all a question? What are the qualities that you have to show do prove however you want to put it to find Jesus and have access to God, what has to happen? So here you are living like the devil, going through life, and then something happens. So what are the qualities that a person has to get in his head to be transformed, to become a new creature? What would you say? Just name a few.

[Al]

Well, one is you would have to be. You would have to have a willingness to change where you are to something different. I mean, I think that would be one obvious one.

[Jason]

Yup. I would say I'm going to use a word that I didn't use the first 25 years of my life to my chagrin. You have to be kind of vulnerable.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jason]

You have to be honest. Look, you have to be apologetic. None of these things was I raised Al you can adjust to this. You never say you're sorry or, you know, you Never tell somebody you love them. I mean, this is just the way we were raised because a lot of our life was BJ before Jesus in my parents life.

[Zach]

You should take a moment right now to tell me and Al both that you love us. I think that'd be a good exercise for you.

[Jason]

I'll tell you later. So what I was going to say, why do we get up and preach from the pulpit or listen to sermons? You need to apologize and admit you're a sinner and all these things that we do every week. But then you would never do that with your kids. I mean, it took me 20 years. It finally hit me one day, which wasn't because I was reading my Bible. Unfortunately, now I'm noticing this, but I'm like, you know, it took me, my son was probably, my oldest son was probably 20, 21 and we were arguing about something and it just kind of hit me. I thought, you know, he's right. I mean, I'm wrong in this. Which my nature was to default into the way I was raised. And you would never admit that. I thought, well, I would admit it to God about my own life. Why wouldn't I admit it to my son when I've obviously made a mistake? And so for the very first time, I apologized to my son. I was like, you're right, I'm wrong on this. You're going to have to find your relationship with God in spite of me doing something wrong. Look, I'm telling you, it was very. I didn't realize the consequences of that in a positive way. I mean, that ended that argument. I mean, because all of a sudden I've made an announcement that he's never heard before in his life. And so Fast forward another 10 years now, and I'm starting to notice this in the Bible, in Ephesians, in one John where he's like, okay, you had this relationship with God. You're claiming this because what they're claiming in one John, there's about four or five claims. He's like, if you claim this and then do this, what are you doing? If you claim this, do this, what are you doing? We can go through each one of those at some point, but it's going to get to these earthly relationships. You're claiming to love God and he loves you, but you don't love your brother, you don't love your family, you don't love your kids, you don't love. This keeps coming up and he's like, that won't work. This will not work. That's darkness. Not truth.

[Zach]

Well, and the way that that correlates is, I mean, you think about this idea of achieving peace. You know, there's big controversy right now out there about the Nobel Peace Prize, and Trump's mad that he didn't get it. So he's told them, hey, there's back and forth on who gets the Nobel Peace Prize. But the peace prize that we're out after is the one that we talked about in the previous podcast, the one Christ brings by tearing down that dividing wall of hostility. But the way he does that, like, if you're, like, with you or your kids or you or your spouse or you with your friend or you with whoever, whatever.

[Jason]

Your neighbor. Yeah. Your co worker.

[Zach]

I mean, the list just goes on. You think about how in the world are we going to find our own little Nobel Peace Prize? We can come to peace that. Because that is what we're after. Bill used to always say, you remember his famous line, he's always say, peace, it's the rarest of commodities. But it was that, that peace of mind and what we're looking for. But the way it works, it actually works through what's being presented in First John 2, the propitiation of our sin, which is that Christ absorbs our sin so that he can provide reconciliation. And so now when if me and Jason, we got an issue going on, if I come to Jason, I'm mad at him about something he did to me. Well, all of a sudden, I start to. I mean, the Spirit starts to speak to me like, well, hold on. What did you do to Christ? Where did you stand before Christ? And what did he do in return? And when I start surveying the wondrous cross of Calvary, what that produces in me is an incredible thankfulness that. It's more than thankfulness. It's an eternal gratitude that I'm like, I have nothing other than gratefulness. Now I look at whatever Jason's infraction against me is, and I'm like, that's child's play. That's nothing. And if he has that same approach, then now we can enter into a relationship and we can reconcile, primarily because we were reconciled to Christ. And we survey that, and that gives us the story to live into now with one another. And then we start to actually live in and participate and partake in the divine nature that way.

[Al]

So, Zach, I got a lot to be thankful for this year. And I have to thank you, buddy. My. My favorite cousin, one of my favorite cousins, because you connected our podcast and me to a company called Ph.D. weight Loss.

[Zach]

You're very welcome, Al.

[Al]

And so because of that, I've lost 80 pounds. If you're watching this on YouTube, there's a picture of me at the beginning. And here I am after loving life and able to do so much more than I was able to do before. Also off almost all my meds that I was on before. No CPAP machine, which is a great blessing. It's not about willpower as much as it is about metabolism. Your body being able to do what is naturally designed by the Almighty to do, and that is to burn fat. And so once you can stop that process system and blocking that, you get to the root cause. Part of this process is figuring that out. They also provide support. I have a great coach that I talk to once a week that helps with accountability as you're going through the process, it will work. And I'm asking you to give it a shot. You know you're going to feel better when you lose the weight. If you want to understand why your body isn't cooperating, call PhD Weight Loss now and mention Fix My Weight Loss. To unlock our New Year's special, you book a consultation. It's free, it's personalized, and it could explain everything for you. Call 864-644-1900 and say fix my weight loss. That's 864-644-1900. Or you can visit myphdweightloss.com be sure and tell them that Al sent you. But you know, Zach, you mentioned the Nobel Peace Prize. It was interesting about that whole scenarios because Trump, by his actions should have won the Nobel Peace Prize, but because of politics involved in that whole process and the group that gives out these prizes, and it's just a group of people and in Norway or wherever they're from, so they give it to this woman. And part of it was because, you know, she was an opposition leader in this, you know, Venezuela. But then part of it was to snub Trump. I mean, let's face it, that was part of the deal. And so this kind of plays out and then Trump, who's, you know, his ego is huge and he kind of petty, pridefully, you know, was, was miffed about not getting it. But the woman to me showed the, the right heart in the whole situation. And she could have been doing just for political gain. I don't know herself because I don't know this woman. But by her taking that, that which was given to her and saying, I'm just going to pass that along because you did deserve this. Whether. And then they're like, oh, you can't. You can't pass this forward. Yeah, this, this is can't be, you know, given to someone else. And she said, oh, yeah, it's mine. I can give it to whoever I want to. And she does it to me. That was like, what we're talking about here, with attitudes and how we want to be something that's given to us, which is a valuable thing in the world, is really not that valuable at all. And I can just pass that along to someone else. And so, Jason, to add to your words that you started off with, with vulnerability, you know, and all the words you said, humility is another one of those words that has to be part of that process. You can't ask for forgiveness and admit you're wrong unless you have humility and unless you realize even if. And even if I am not wrong, I'm still willing to mend a relationship because I'm humble and I have empathy for other people. Those are pictures of Christ who went through suffering and he never did anything wrong. I mean, he never had to say he was wrong because he never sinned. And yet he was humble and he was empathetic to people, and people loved him no matter what their circumstances, situation.

[Jason]

Well, I think that's why when I went through Ephesians and we saw these hidden gems of what it means that Jesus is at the right hand of God, bringing everything on heaven and earth together. And he's filled human beings with this Holy Spirit, made them a new creation to show people a glimpse of heaven on earth, of how humans should be, and given us a job to speak this wisdom to these evil powers in the heavenly realms. And we left off in chapter three. But he goes on in that prayer to the Ephesians, and he likens this to the family in 3:14 and following, when he says, for this reason, I kneel before the Father, from whom his whole family in heaven and on earth derives its name. And I pray that he strengthen you with power through his spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your heart. So, I mean, this is coming off this new humanity, destroying this wall of hostility that exists between us and every other human on the planet and us.

[Zach]

In the heavenly realm. The fracture that happened at the fall, this is also bringing back together of heaven and earth.

[Jason]

Yeah. And then when he gets into the later chapters, he starts getting into all these relationships, husbands and wives, and he compares your relationship with your husbands and wives in Jesus and him being our husband. You remember when he gets to the end of chapter five and verse 32, and he's like, this is a profound mystery, but I'm talking about Christ and the church. However, each one also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband. It's like, that's the standard by which should naturally evolve. Being Spirit led, people having this relationship with God and representing him, then we represent him in all our other relationships. And then what does he do? He gets to children and parents. And when you read that, it's like, children, obey your parents in the Lord. He's making that same concept carry over to all these relationships. Honor your father and mother, which is the first commandment with a promise. So I was listening to this sermon. I was looking it up while y' all were talking about parenting, because I never, you know, parenting is difficult even after they leave your house, because you're still parenting.

[Al]

Well, you're still parenting even though they're adults, right?

[Jason]

Well, one of the points they made was the stages of parenting. It was like the. And these are just generic titles, but I think there's some truth in it. You know, you have the discipline years one through five, the training years five to 12, the coaching years 12 through 18, and the friendship years 18 and over. But it really hit me when I was hearing this, because I was thinking that was part of my problem, is not realizing as a parent, these transitions that our kids go through, and it just happens organically as they come up. And you kind of realizing where we're at in this stage, I think will help you realize, how can I be Jesus in each part of this transition? But anyway, what I wanted to get to is this was all about parenting. This wasn't about what we're talking about. But I'm saying, once you realize that our relationship should be a reflection of our relationship with God and participating in his fellowship. He had five points that this battle of the worlds. And this was in a context of kids being inundated and influenced in all these worldly ways. And he had five points, and I took a picture of it. So there's one of them that I can't remember the Word, and he's got his head in the way. But the first one was from self to others. Because just think about how the world influenced you, especially in our digital age and social media and all this. It's all about me. It's all about me, all about me. But we know that we're made for something in Christ. And you look at Jesus life. He was Always being open to other people and noticing where they're hurting and what they need. And so that's going to be a major battle in all relationships. But ultimately it's a reflection of your own battle between are you going to do it your way or are you going to do it God's way? But that principle has got to go to your kids because they're going to want to be self absorbed, because the world, that's what we do. It's all about you forget others. Who cares? The second one was from entitlement to gratitude. Zach, when you brought up that, gratitude is what made me think about that. Think about the world. It's all like filled with envy and, well, where's mine? I mean, how dare this other person get this. This is what causes all this hostility between people. We can't look at someone else. Yeah.

[Zach]

Even when it's like obvious, like obvious things. Like when we were talking about the Nobel Peace Prize earlier, I remember that Yasser Arafat, who was the well known terrorist, you know, and, and I mean, involved in like hijackings of airplanes and.

[Al]

The death of a lot of people. Yeah.

[Zach]

I mean, massacres. I mean, they were talking about like, this guy won the Nobel Peace Prize. And, and so you think, well, like, why would any, why would you even want a prize that that guy won? So you're looking at this, you think. But we think it's, it's like the, we're entitled to the accolades of men not realizing that those accolades don't actually bring the thing that they say they're going to bring. You think we're going to bestow this peace Prize on somebody and all of a sudden they are what we bestow on them. And that's just not the case. That wasn't true of Yasser Arafat. He was not a beacon of peace. I mean, he just wasn't. But just so you, so you get the virtue signal. But what's being offered through the spirit is actually a real manifestation of peace. And that, that really does manifest itself in the opposite of entitlement. I mean, entitlement is the thing. I think it's probably one of our default postures and I think it's why I was mentioned second and what you're talking about, because, yes, it's also a.

[Al]

Picture of what happens when you're only viewing what you feel like you have a right to. What we mentioned about the Church of Minnesota in previous podcasts and you know, Don Lemon goes in there, and so he's the journalist, you know, and He's. But he's really a part of this thing that's going on as much as anybody El else. But he. So he tries to do an interview with this pastor who is bewildered in the moment because these people have come in and take over, you know, when they're having their assembly. And he said, you shouldn't be in here. You know, this, this we're trying to gather here, and you shouldn't be here. And Lemon says, but we have a right to free speech. So he quotes the Constitution and. And what should have been said by someone is, yeah, but there's also a right of freedom of religion in the same right. And yet the idea was, no, we're going to trample right on your right of that, because my right is greater.

[Zach]

In this moment, my right trumps your right.

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[Zach]

Yeah, that's a good point. And it's a. It's these things, these rights. I mean, when you enter in entitlement culture, then all of a sudden it's just a race to the bottom of who can get. I'm gonna get mine. You know, I'm gonna get what I can get as quick as I can.

[Jason]

If you.

[Al]

If you were thinking with this idea, as Jay said, of gratitude versus entitlement, you would say, you know what? We're now storm into this place. These people are in there. We'll just. We'll be out here on the sidewalk and we'll have our signs and we'll do our thing and we can do our interviews when they come out and say, do you really believe the stuff you were talking about? But we would never want to trample your freedom of religion, right, by our right of free speech. And so we're going to coexist and figure out a way maybe to have some dialogue. But that wasn't what anybody thinks at that moment.

[Zach]

Now that entitlement culture is corrupt, and it's actually a powerful thing to the point that advertising advertisers have picked up on this now and over the last several years, I mean, in our lifetime, you know, most of the advertisements that we've seen are geared towards reinforcing that. That entitlement that when you go get a hamburger, guess which way you should have it.

[Al]

Have it your way.

[Zach]

You have it your way. If you are thirsty, what Sprite says, hey, obey your thirst. This is about you. You go do your thing. And, you know, you start to look at all the advertisements that are out there. They're gearing towards getting to that basement of who you are and saying, you deserve. You deserve. You deserve this. And then they. They reinforce that. There was a commercial in Monroe, and I used to live there. I don't know if you guys remember. It was like an attorney. Like one of these injury attorneys, I think, and. But it was like. I just remember the line was. It was all these different people, and they'd say, it's my money and I want it now. It's my money and I want it now. It's my money and I want it now. I'm like, whoa, we're just getting right on the nose of this thing right here.

[Jason]

No, that's funny. I remember that. I wanted to give credit where I heard this. Missy heard this in Nashville this past Sunday. It was called the Intentional parent by Darren Whitehead. So these are the points I'm giving you. So it was from self to others, from entitlement to gratitude. The third one was from impulse to self control. So these are the two words what you think about. These are reflections of the Holy Spirit. This is a result of your fellowship with God. Self control is. Look. It is the most underrated fruit of the spirit in that list.

[Zach]

Yes.

[Jason]

Galatians 5. 22. The fruit of the spirit. Love, joy, peace, patience. All these things are. Oh. Which patience may be a tough one, but gentleness, which. That was a tough one for me. Faithfulness and self control. It's a fruit of the spirit. But what do our kids do? Especially when teenage years. Think back to your teenage years. Whatever the impulse is, go try it out. I mean, I thought these were really.

[Zach]

Good points, but do you see how that flows from the one before it? I deserve this. It's my money, and I want it now. See, there's the impulse. It's my money. Entitlement. I want it now. There's the impulse.

[Al]

Zach, I was thinking about this protest culture we have now, which is. And we've always had protests in our culture, but this latest crop, I mean, it seems insane because it literally goes from event to event, and the same people. So remember, it was no kings. I talked about this for no kings, no rallies. We're get together. There was a group down here. There wasn't anybody out there in that group that I saw that was under 75. You know, these are old hippies and oh, yuppies, what we call them yippees. And so they're out there and no kings. And then they go. So Trump goes in and he arrests a king, a dictator, because he was a dealer and he's, you know, hurting our country and people are dying. So he goes in and takes them out in the middle of the night and brings them to America for justice. Okay, there's one king down. And then the same people put the signs down with the no king and picked up a sign that says free Maduro. Free Maduro. And it's.

[Jason]

I said, what?

[Al]

What happened to. No, that took one day for us to cast aside our no kings to go right into. Because that was about Trump to cast it into the. But we'd like to have Maduro out because that's a king we like. And so it's so impulse driven that it makes no sense. I mean, it can conflict with itself and it's just such a ridiculous thing to watch. But I see it every single day.

[Jason]

Exactly. So the fourth one is from comfort to responsibility. Now, we were not very comfortable as kids. This is one my parents got right. But when you think about big picture and following Jesus, he's called us to get back to where we started here, about going through storms to be uncomfortable, to have uncomfortable conversations. Very difficult conversation. If you're out there out loud and proud that Jesus is your king and you're willing to have conversations with people, there's just going to be a lot of uncomfortable moments. But when you think responsibility, what was it with.

[Zach]

It was uncomfortable. What was it comfortable?

[Al]

Comfortability.

[Jason]

So the world is all about comfort. This is the. We got two worlds. God made a new humanity within an old one. You know, we were kind of following the trail of Adam and Eve. And then here comes Jesus, the ultimate human who got it all right and then loved his enemies, including us, and died and bled on a cross and was raised and goes to the right hand of God on our behalf. Well, he's on the second world here. Be more focused on others than yourself. Gratitude than entitlement, self control than impulse, responsibility than comfort. And that's where I'm bringing up when we went through Ephesians, when he talked about the grace that saved us and he seated us in the heavenly realms. He got us out from under the evil one who had taken us captive. And for what? Ephesians 2:10. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. So not only did he make us in him, he recreated us in him, and he made us for him, which is the responsibility.

[Al]

And I like, Jase, that you remember in 2 Corinthians 1, Paul starts out with this idea of the God of all comfort, who comforts us in our troubles so that we can comfort others with what we've received from God. And then you get into the rest of 2 Corinthians and about us being ministers of reconciliation. You get the idea that the responsible thing for us to do as we endure and as we overcome, we have a responsibility to then help other people overcome what they're going through as well. And so that is the part that. That allows us to be through. And you're right, that's uncomfortable. I mean, it's hard to walk alongside and it's hard to have conversations. You've. You've mentioned many times on this podcast about some of your uncomfortable moments as a parent with your children because they were raised as at the beginning of this digital era that's there now, and how uncomfortable it was to have to then go after that with the friends of your teenagers, you know, in the devices and the phones and the Snapchats and everything that goes on in these situations. And a lot of parents just don't want to deal with it because it's uncomfortable.

[Zach]

But I remember there was a moment when y' all did pull the. Y' all pulled the purse string back. Yes. On one of your kids.

[Jason]

And you're like, was there a moment? Those were multiple moments. We do not reward illegal or immoral.

[Zach]

Behavior, especially when you do that. What you're saying is, I'm pulling back the comfort and I'm going to allow you an opportunity to double up responsibility. My parents did that for me as well, and that was the moment, honestly, whenever I came to Christ was my parents. And the harder part was getting Kate to cut the purse, the purse strings that Kay was giving us money because she was funneling money into me and Jep's side apartment, and we were getting some stuff from cable. Once that stopped and. And the money train stopped and the comfort stopped, and all of a sudden the responsibility emerged. And I told this my kid the other day, because he was like, hey, we got enough money to do this? I'm like, no, no, no, we don't have enough money to do anything. I've got enough money to do what you want.

[Al]

But you sound like. You sound like Shaq. You sound like Shaq. Shaq said, my kids say, we rich. He said, we ain't rich. I'm rich.

[Zach]

That's right. But grab that.

[Al]

Go grab.

[Zach]

Pull that comfort back and let that responsibility rise up in you. Because that, the responsibility, your. Your ability to experience comfort and freedom is going to be correlated to the level of responsibility that you have. And so as I've grown in my career, I've gotten more money. So Jill and I are about to take a 25th year anniversary this year, and I'm looking at, like, different places we're going to go. And I'm like, man, man, if this, like, this is a. What we're about to do, this year is a whole lot nicer than what we did on our honeymoon. We say, well, how do you. How can you do that? Well, I have more. I. I got more now that I can spend on the vacation. Well, but I also can't just take off and be like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna be gone for six months because I gotta. I got more responsibility. So it teeters it out and it holds it in balance. And I think kids need that. We need that.

[Jason]

So I want to give you a practical example of this. I mean, just on this, how our relationship to God reflects our relationship with God in our other relationships. Let's take husbands and wives. So we spent three podcasts talking about. We have gained access to the Father. Wonderful. We can pray and guess what. All things are possible. Right? Let me give you a little hidden gem here. This is first Peter 3, verse 7. Husbands, in the same way, be considerate as you live with your wives and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life. It's wonderful, right? You got a responsibility to be Jesus, a Jesus husband. Well, then there's a comma, and it says, so that nothing will hinder your prayers. Hint, hint. Why is it. What's. What's he saying? Well, let's just. Is he making this kind of conditional? And I think that's what John is gonna. He's gonna have that same thrust about what you claim. And then how that looks in your relationships when he says in First John 1, after we have this Father, we have this one. Speaking in our defense, Jesus Christ, the righteous one, he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, not only ours, but for also the sins of the world. Then he goes on to say verse six of chapter two. Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. And then in verse nine, he says, anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him to make him stumble. Whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks around in the darkness. He does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded him. And then he gets into all these relationships. I write to you, dear children. This is what made me think of that sermon. Because all of a sudden it gets down to, we're the children of God. He created us, he saved us for him to be the children of God. And then that reflect in our other relationships. Because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name. I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. He goes back to, I created you for a purpose, and I created you for Jesus because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, dear children, because you have known the Father. I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you young men, because you are strong and the word of God lives in you. You have overcome the evil one. Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world. The love of the Father is not in him. For everything in the world. And now we're getting personal because we're getting into husbands and wives. We're getting into, when you're single, what you're looking at on the Internet, who you're looking at, what you're doing with somebody that's not your wife. For everything in the world. The cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes, the boasting of what he has and does, which are all these points that you're trying to pass on to your kids, comes not from the Father, but from the world. The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever. And that's why I think he had that passage in 1 Peter 3. It's like, but it's not that we're married. We're to be a godly husband. We ought to have a godly wife. We're to function as a reflection of this new humanity that God has created on the earth.

[Al]

And think about how it wouldn't jace to hinder the prayer. How would that happen? Well, to me it takes us back to that Romans 8 passage where the Spirit helps us in our Weakness. And we're trying to figure out what to pray. If you're not in tune with the Spirit of God that is living in you and you're living a lifestyle opposite of that spirit of God, how can you possibly have that communion and union with the Almighty and with Jesus and with the Holy Spirit? Of course it would hinder that communication. You're not living. You're not who you say you are. And I like the picture that he paints there that you read. And it's almost like a song. And he gives you two verses and he kind of repeats himself. He's given you every level of maturity, whether you're a child, whether you're a youth, you know, or whether you're the father or the mother at every step of the way, these things apply to us. And I think that's the beauty of that passage. It's like a song that you could sing again and again.

[Jason]

That's why I wanted to read that. There's a responsibility here. You're in the fellowship of God. Show it. Because, look, think about it. I made this whole thing about being parents. You know why? Because you know, the most number one thing you can do for your kids is show them. Yeah. You know, I spent most of my years just telling them what to do, but I finally realized they're not paying attention to what you're saying, but they're paying attention to what you're doing.

[Zach]

Well, because you know what they. I think the pushback people have. When you say something like. What you just said is like, well, hold on. I thought Christ did it all.

[Jason]

What?

[Zach]

I don't. What? I'm saved by grace. What are you talking about? Do something. Works. Works based salvation. That's the pushback. But that's not what we're talking about here. I mean, look at the Romans 8 passage that Al brought up. You, however, are not in the flesh. Flesh, but in the Spirit. If in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is alive because of righteousness. And he says, it is by the Spirit that we actually put to death the misdeeds of the body. So we are supposed to do something. And what we're doing is not to earn it. That's the thing you got to realize. We talk about, like, grace, and this is not. This is not opposed to grace. This is because of grace. Because of grace, we put the death, the message of the light. Well, why that, because the answer to that question will tell you what your motivation is.

[Al]

If.

[Zach]

If the answer is because I need to earn my way in, okay, yeah, that's wrong. But if the answer is, well, I want to participate in Christ, in the inner life of God, I want to actually participate in what he, what he's done for me. That's, that's the motivation. But you can't just sit around and be like, I'm just let it just happen. It's a participatory thing.

[Jason]

I mean, God is saying that leads us to the fifth point, which is on cue. And you didn't know the fifth point because I'm literally getting this off my phone, which is with our kids. From achievements to faithfulness. And I'm glad you brought this up, Zach, because I think that's why First John is hard for disciples of Jesus to wrap their head around because their view is everything in the Bible as one ticket punch to salvation. And then wait, and then everything will be okay. Instead of realizing what God has called us to be, to be this new humanity, to use us to show who he is through spirit filled lives. And that is the contrast that he's going through in one john. I'm 100% convinced of that. He's like your fellowship with him, it's awesome. You're participating in the life of all life. And then all of a sudden, here's a problem and we need to get these claims in. Just look at the claims. Verse 6 of chapter 1 is the first one. If we claim to have fellowship with him, yet walk in the darkness, we are lying and not living by the truth. Verse 8. If you claim to be without sin, will you deceive yourselves when the truth is not in us? Verse 10. If we claim we've not sinned, we make him out to be a liar. Chapter two, verse nine. Anyone who claims to be in the light, but hates his. You could put fellow man, brother, sister, wife, neighbor, worker, you're still in darkness. That's the pattern that he's going to go throughout the rest of the letter.

[Al]

And it's so true, Jason. I mean, I love the idea faithfulness and this idea of responsibility go together. It's like we talk about in our country. We're free, right? We have a free society. But we also have a responsibility to our fellow citizens, to the people that we don't agree with, to the people that we live next to, and all the responsibilities and relationships as believers. We have to realize that even if they don't.

[Jason]

Yeah, I mean, I Think the analogy of the kids is great because think about it. When they go through play sports or they're part of a team, when you're in that coaching phase or whatever of your, your kids, doesn't matter how many trophies they have, were they a good team member? Were they a good worker? Were they faithful to godly principles?

[Zach]

Yeah, that faithfulness is the key. I love that. That's so good because I was going to say this before you even said that as another just analogy to bring it home. This is actually a real story that happened that I'm aware of. So think about, and I think about this all the time when we deal with couples who are on the brink of divorce. And, and they'll say, well, we're staying together because it's the right thing to do. But if you look at their marriage, they're not faithful. They may not be cheating on each other, but they're not faithful in the sense that we're talking about. I remember this couple that was at a church, they were older couple at a church in Florida that we used to go to. And they knew the Bible condemned divorce except for marital unfaithfulness. So they couldn't stand each other and they wanted to get a divorce, but they knew that was sinful. So they built, literally built a wall down the middle of their trailer and the husband lived on one side and the wife lived on the other, literally a dividing wall of hostility in their trailer. But they were, and I got air quotes if you're not watching, they were staying together because it's the right thing to do. And I'm like, that's not faithfulness. Whatever that is, that is not faithfulness. That sounds like a living hell. Faithfulness is submitting yourself, sacrificing yourself, yourself, working like, like living in the reality that Christ has tore down the dividing wall of hostility. So, so this isn't just us and them in Minnesota, man. This is us and me and my wife. This is me and my kid. This is me and my, my daughter, my son. This is me and my neighbor. Man, this hits home right where we live at. You know what I'm saying?

[Al]

The only thing, the only thing that tears down that wall in the middle of that trailer is forgiveness and then love. And a response, which we'll get into later in first John as well. We're out of time.

[Jason]

We'll.

[Al]

We'll hit this next time. No unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.