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Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Ep 1266 | Jase Discovers Who the Antichrist Is & You Definitely Know Him
00:58:36
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- [00:02]
Jason
I am unashamed.
- [00:04]
Zach
What about you?
- [00:06]
Jase
So welcome back to Unashamed. We were. I know it's a few days in between releases when you guys are hearing this, but for us, we just were talking about Jace's harrowing tale in the. Of last night's interesting trip, I guess you would call was.
- [00:25]
Zach
I think you survived.
- [00:27]
Jase
You survived. So. So while you were doing all that, because you and I were texting a little bit because we were trying to figure out when we were going to record today.
- [00:34]
Jason
Yeah, your instincts were right. Al sent me a text about 10:30 and was like, are you delayed? Because there's a lot of fog out here? And it went with Missy's story when she came to pick us up in the middle of nowhere, Arkansas. She couldn't see the road.
- [00:50]
Jase
It's very. It was. And that was what. That's why I sent you that, because I had just. So we went. My grandkids. There's one place that. That they all can agree on and which is unfortunate for me because it's all the way out at the mall. It's. It's Olive Garden. They all like the Olive Garden, which, you know, I'm okay with it as the restaurant. The restaurant. There's not much I can eat on there on my PhD lifestyle, but they all love it. All the grand can. Nobody argues like other places we go. I don't like that.
- [01:20]
Zach
So one of those, like, it's one of those restaurants that's kind of from the. From back in the late 90s, early 2000s. It's the one of the only ones.
- [01:28]
Jase
That kind of hung in there, right?
- [01:30]
Zach
Yeah.
- [01:30]
Jase
Hung in there.
- [01:31]
Zach
It's still kind of a thing.
- [01:32]
Jase
Yeah. And people love it and it's always crowded, but. But yesterday, so. So we took the grandkids out there and. And mom wanted to go, which is great. I mean, that she's doing well enough to want to go out, you know, so she had been over to our house the night before, and we cooked and Hawk and Bill came over. But I said, mom, we're going to go out to Olive Garden tomorrow night. I said, you want to go with us? Yeah, it's one of my favorites. You know, she is. And. And then I thought she'd probably forget about. Because then it was bad weather. And so then I thought it was raining earlier. And so I thought, well, she probably don't even remember. And then Anna said she just had her. Her friend text and say, are we still going to Olive Garden? I said, well, the fact she remembered that I'm excited. So I went back and got her. But then we get out in this, and it's just a soup, you know, I mean, it was really nasty. And by the time we got back and dropped her off, that's when I texted you. And I was like, man, this is. This is nasty. Yeah, well, nasty situation.
- [02:22]
Jason
Imagine flying in and out.
- [02:23]
Jase
Yeah, I cannot imagine it.
- [02:26]
Jason
Was.
- [02:26]
Jase
Glad I was.
- [02:27]
Jason
Well, I have to admit, it was the only event I've ever done while being soaking wet. So interesting. So, Maddie, make a mental note. When you go do an event, bring a change of clothes just in case it rains. If you're going to be back same.
- [02:43]
Jase
Day, of course, unfortunately, like it is, you go to a restaurant. So we go to the restaurant and they had this little. Got the menu, but then they got this little. We brought these back, and it's in the middle of the table, so it's like a special thing. And we looked at. Oh, you know, we hadn't seen that in a while. And so we ordered. Mom did, Lisa did. I did. Off of that. So the woman we order goes back. She comes back and she says, we're out of this. And I was like, oh, man. I mean, why do you have it on the table if you don't have it? And so then. So mom had to change hers, Lisa had to change hers.
- [03:14]
Jason
And.
- [03:14]
Jase
And so then she goes back. Then she comes back two minutes later, and what I had ordered and now what mom had ordered, she said, we're out of the sauce that goes on that. And I was like, really? And then she says, but the chef says he can do this. And this guy. This is back to the sausage making. I was like, yeah, well, just. Just do it. Just bring it out. We'll see what happens. And it was really good. But I was like, why do you have things on the menu when you don't have them?
- [03:39]
Jason
Maybe that's why. My dad never liked to eat out.
- [03:42]
Jase
No. And I'm kind of the same way. We just assume cook, but the grandkids it. And you tend to do things for your grandkids you wouldn't do otherwise. Zach, you'll know one day.
- [03:51]
Zach
Why did your kids are all getting well. You know, it's funny because Ruth's four, and I feel like I'm in a weird spot. Like, I'm like half dad, half granddad. Yeah, it's a weird feeling, but she gets a lot more than like, our other kids got. She's not as well disciplined as the others were. Yeah, because we had a lot more energy Back then we were like. And we thought we had to do it perfect. So we were. We were ruling with an iron fist, and now we're rolling with a.
- [04:16]
Jason
Just, well, be careful. You'll create another jet, which is me, chainsaw. And him pulling a cart behind me, getting some sticks.
- [04:26]
Zach
Can I borrow some of that wood?
- [04:28]
Jason
He came over before I. Before I came up here tonight, and he's like, I have a chainsaw question. Of course, my house was just crazy. We had insurance people in there and. Which, by the way, the insurance guy, he was like, you know, the insurance will pay you for cleaning out your driveways, you know, with all my trees and all, because I did it myself. And he said, so I just need to get your hours on that. And I thought. I said about three hours. And he said, three. I said, yeah. I was thinking, well, if you can do that quicker than three hours, I'm pretty good with the chainsaw. I was kind of. And he said, oh, oh, no. I'm just not used to dealing with people who are honest. He said, I thought you were going to say three days. I said, well, maybe four. But, you know, I was like, three.
- [05:29]
Jase
This man just gave you the inside track as to the whole problem with insurance in our society. He literally did plan on being people being.
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Jason
Yeah, he looked at that big stack of wood and he thought, three hours. I was like, three hours. I was pretty proud of it.
- [05:48]
Jase
Yeah, you were. You were like, I'm impressed.
- [05:50]
Jason
Yeah, I was. I was being honest. I thought, why are you shocked at integrity? But in our society, it's our society. You are shocked when someone tells the truth.
- [05:59]
Jase
It's why the healthcare system is broken, because you get two prices. You get the price of corruption, and then you get the true price of something.
- [06:07]
Jason
Well, I even kind of chastised Missy a little bit because she was like, I mean, we're basically fine, you know. And I was like, well, these stains on the ceilings indicate to me that if you go up and look in that attic, there may be some trouble because there's two huge stains, you know, because of water leak. And she said, well, yeah, I mean, true, but I mean, we're basically fine. I was like, baby, he's out here to figure out the damage. And you're acting like, don't worry about it. Why is he here? There's literally trees. I was getting them out of the pool. And a pair of chest waders. Yeah, we called the pool guy. He comes out, he's like, I can't do this till this tree's out of the pool. So I got.
- [06:49]
Jase
Well, my pool is empty. My pool is empty. A pipe burst and drained my pool.
- [06:53]
Jason
Think about this. Because I was like, I'm gonna get this tree out of my pool. And it's a tree limb. It's not a tree. But it's doesn't look very big on the picture. I don't know why, but I could not lift it. I had to use.
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Jase
Limbs are heavier than they look.
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Jason
Yeah, I mean, it was probably, you know, big around. A little bigger around than your leg. I gu. But it's long. It means it was a big pineland. If it had fallen on you, it had killed you dead.
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Zach
That honesty, though, is the way to do it. That's that jcu. I don't know if you know this or not, but your buddy J. Stone, I guess your son in law.
- [07:28]
Jase
My son in law when I was in town.
- [07:30]
Jason
Why is he damned my buddy? He's. He's my nephew in law and we're friends.
- [07:40]
Zach
Sarcasm. He said, I want you to watch.
- [07:43]
Jase
Said it like he was about to.
- [07:45]
Jason
Say, buddy, little buddy, little buddy.
- [07:48]
Jase
J.
- [07:49]
Zach
Now he said, you got to watch this new thing we did, the new episode. I guess y' all filmed something like a duck hunt. Y' all went on. And. And there's a scene where you're in the blind. This is. It's on YouTube. And you're in the blind talking about the new duck call that they've come out with. And it was the most hilarious way of reminding me of Phil. And it. Willie tells that story of Phil, like when he had two different duck calls at the place. And Phil's. Yeah, you don't want to buy that expensive one. Grab this one over here. This one I use. And we'll say, no, we're trying to sell duck calls. But you were talking about the new. This new single read a duck call. And it was hilarious the way you were doing it, because you were kind of like. It was a real honest, frank discussion. But I was like, I bet they'll actually sell a bunch of duck calls like that because Jason's having a real honest interaction. It is shocking.
- [08:36]
Jason
Here's what happens in all my speeches. And our company was built on authenticity and honesty. And there's a craze that developed in the state of Arkansas, and they call it Arkansas style. And this year was the first year that I've ever gone to one of these places and had actual success. So for years I was like, they're talking about this Arkansas style, which is basically taking a duck Call and wailing on this thing from the moment you get there to the time you leave. I mean, you wake up in the.
- [09:13]
Jase
Middle of a headache from.
- [09:14]
Jason
Oh, yeah. And it's just.
- [09:17]
Jase
It's like an auctioneer. Yeah. 5. Give me 10, give me 10.
- [09:22]
Jason
So what their thought is is they're trying to sound like tons of ducks, right? So.
- [09:28]
Jase
Because there's a lot of ducks on the. In the woods, right? Like. Yeah, yeah.
- [09:31]
Jason
So every time I would get a call in the duck call room that would. That I would try to make it stop doing all that and just sound like one. And so it's kind of a corporate versus a one duck mentality.
- [09:48]
Zach
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- [10:04]
Jase
We do a lot of travel, so gas mostly is where we find our savings. It's been fantastic.
- [10:09]
Zach
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- [11:13]
Jason
It wasn't because I was necessarily saying it wouldn't work. It just made my head hurt. And it's kind of like somebody shooting over my head because I'd have people send me Videos and they're just raining in there and they're. So the day we actually did it, I never picked up my call for 10 minutes. But they, they started subsiding because the ducks wouldn't come in. Now to their credit, they backed off and they were blowing this new call that, that literally people are trying to order because it is, I think, the best version of that out there. Because I have a couple of guys who I hunt with, who that's all they use. They're, they're called cut downs and they're single reeds and, and, but they said, this is it. So I'm trusting them. They're like, you have pulled it off. And I was like, well, great, because I can't even blow it. And so I was saying that, that, yes, I've made fun of this, but I did have that experience where it worked. We killed 32 mallards in about an hour. Well, that. I'm not an idiot. I finally saw this, saw this work because there were a ton of dog and they had been used to all this racket because they were happy ducks. And I thought, there is a place for it. So I give it my blessing, we'll sell it. Especially since my hard headed buddies are saying, it's the bet. You've got it and you don't even know what you have. And so that was kind of the bit we did. Because look, my brother and other people that work at Duck Commander, they didn't like that. I wasn't holding it up saying, now this is the best call you'll ever blow. I'm like, I don't use that thing. But I heard it's fantastic, fantastic, and there is a place for it. And so I was brutally honest and.
- [13:06]
Jase
I said, well, what's funny about that, Jay, is that the event I was at last week is the Q and A. And of course the Q and A's. You get everything. You know, you get stuff about the show, you get stuff about what we just talked about. But some woman asked me, she said, I notice when I watch your family you have these things around your neck. What are they called? And I said, a lanyard. And she said, yeah. And she said, and they have all these different kind of duck calls, all these calls on them. I said, yeah. She said, why don't you just need one? And I said, well, because that's how we make money. And of course the crowd laughed because I was like, we need a bunch of go.
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Jason
But you were joking.
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Jase
I was joking.
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Jason
There's a lot of ducks.
- [13:43]
Jase
Well, so what I said was. Then I explained that you and dad came up with. I said, there's a lot of different birds and they all make different sounds. I said, the mallard hen. So I went through the little five minute discussion of the duck call sounds with her and I said, so when you're seeing somebody. Then I explained to her that if you're sitting in front of a bunch of decoys and you have people in your blind blowing different kind of bird sounds, it's because that's who's out there in front. We're trying to make the ducks think that. So it was just a. She just thought, why would you need more than one because you only have one mouth.
- [14:16]
Jason
Well, look, this is interesting. I didn't know we were going to talk about this, but I have in my hand viewer, male viewer mail. This was.
- [14:23]
Jase
This is viewer mail segment when I came in.
- [14:26]
Jason
Are you nervous right now, Manny? I opened this card before we started this podcast and read it and went, huh? And I threw it over to the side. But now that y' all brought it up, Jase, my husband, asked me to write this, which is weird.
- [14:43]
Jase
Why wouldn't he write it?
- [14:45]
Jason
Regarding your interest in developing a new call. So I thought, oh, where's this going For a black bellied whistling duck, Which I will admit, if you'd asked me about that two years ago, I'd never heard one or ever seen one. But we've been inundated by which I called a Mexican tree whistling ducks. Yeah, or tree whistling ducks. Some version of that.
- [15:15]
Jase
There's a little pond right up there by the church that about. There's about 100 of them.
- [15:19]
Jason
Well, guess what? The state of Louisiana. I'm not sure if this is global as far as America.
- [15:27]
Jase
Yeah.
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Jason
But they actually add. You can shoot six of them.
- [15:31]
Jase
Really?
- [15:31]
Jason
Oh, yeah. They're everywhere. But I haven't seen one in the wild during legal duck season.
- [15:37]
Jase
I only see them in the spring is when I see them.
- [15:40]
Jason
But. But I heard they're actually good to eat. Well, you know, occasion, I did. I was somewhere and occasion said, have you tried them Mexican whistling ducks?
- [15:51]
Zach
Cajun.
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Jase
We eat anything.
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Jason
Well, I was waiting to meet a Cajun to tell me if it was okay, because that's how we've developed all the things we can eat. Don't ever. Don't listen to your biology teacher in school. If you're young, you need to find a Cajun and say, how is this.
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Jase
Just think about garlic and butter. Make it more garlic.
- [16:10]
Jason
We introduce to the world to eat like Oysters and crawfish that came from Cajuns. They looked at it and said, let's try it.
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Jase
That's right.
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Jason
But they let's try it. And you stand back, look out of the way.
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Jase
But it on a cracker.
- [16:23]
Jason
Dude, put it on cracker. But here's what I found interesting, Zach. We live in Gainesville, Florida. Oh, come on.
- [16:30]
Zach
Go Gators.
- [16:31]
Jason
Well, this is.
- [16:32]
Zach
I mean, you don't need to worry about a duck call if you're living in Gainesville. There are no ducks in Gainesville.
- [16:36]
Jason
Well, evidently they have a lot of black belly whistling ducks. And they would like. They were like, call us if you want to study the sounds. So I guess they're recording. Oh, yeah, but I've heard them. So who is this? Thank you, Suzette, but I know what one sounds like. But that's not a bad idea. And so I said all that to say this. I remember the maddest I've ever seen my brother, when he took over the company was my dad said, I'm going to make a video called the Ten Commandments of duck hunting. And I'm going to rank in order of importance, 1 through 10, the things you do. Well, my brother couldn't get past the back where it named the Ten Commandments because, look, duck calls was number seven. And Willie come in there and said, because, you know, my dad was intimidating. Look, I got a recommendation. I love the idea, the project. You're segueing the law and the Bible with duck hunting. The Genesis 9. Great. So he set him up to say, but we need to move number seven to number one. And my dad said, can't do it. Well, he's like, why not? He's like, well, that's not the truth. This is the truth of the ten Commandments.
- [18:13]
Jase
If we're going to call them ten commandments, they got to be right.
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Jason
And he's like, what's your beef there, Willie? Willie's like, we make duck calls and sell them. This is how we make a living. But if you find that somewhere on the Internet, I'm sure it's out there. Guess what's number seven? Duck calls. It's the order of importance.
- [18:33]
Jase
Well, it reminded me of a contribution I made later in years when we were doing and celebrate recovery and 12 step stuff, you know, AA, someone in the organization, I don't know if it was you or dad or whoever, came up with the idea of a duckaholic, you know. And so then we had to have the 12 steps to be a duck, to be a Duckaholic. Because we were, you know, we kind of.
- [18:57]
Jason
We were embracing.
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Jase
We were twisting that as a positive. Not obviously an alcoholic, but a duckaholic. And so I helped contribute to writing the 12 steps of a Duckaholic. And they're still out there somewhere, I guess, too. I don't know. I need to try to find that somewhere.
- [19:12]
Zach
I got an interesting email from a. From a listener. I was trying to pull it up. I can't remember the gentleman's name, but it was the most hilarious thing I've ever read. I was on my way down to see you guys a few weeks back, and we were getting a little bit hungry, so we stopped in somewhere in Georgia at a Chick Fil a. Because that's what you did. It's about the only fast food place I eat at. I stopped at the Chick Fil a.
- [19:37]
Jase
And that's the home base for Chick Fil a. It is Atlanta, Georgia.
- [19:41]
Zach
And I noticed this couple that were up there at the counter, and they caught my attention because the. The woman was just so nice. She was. I saw. I saw her talking to some of the staff members and giving them hugs. I was, man, she seems like a really sweet lady. I think she had on like, a Harley Davidson T shirt. And her husband was a kind of a. You know, looked like one of us had a kind of bigger beard, white beard. And so. So he sends an email to the. Whatever the email account is. I don't even know what it is. And then Jen forwarded it to me. And he said, I just. I think I might have just saw you, Zach, in Whatever Georgia, at the Chick Fil a. And he said, you looked at me like, this guy knows who I am. He said. And I looked at you like, I.
- [20:25]
Jason
Know who you are.
- [20:29]
Zach
He said. And then he said, you went down and sat down to eat your chicken sandwich. And he said, I had to go to the bathroom. Do number one. This is on the email. He says, I go in the bathroom, he said, but I couldn't wash my hands because I was going deer hunting.
- [20:43]
Jason
Later on that afternoon.
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Zach
I didn't want to wash my hands and have that soap smell on my hands. Because I know you're probably wondering why I didn't introduce myself to you. So I'm telling you why. Since I came out and when I saw you eating your fries and you had your hands on your fries, I was like, I can't shake this man's hand in a good conscious, knowing what I just didn't do in the bathroom. So I just walked on by and gave you a nod. But that was me. If you were wondering that was I've ever got.
- [21:15]
Jase
That was. That was an interesting way to let.
- [21:18]
Zach
You know, wherever you are, I saw you and I did see.
- [21:21]
Jase
Probably he probably saved you a bout of hepatitis A right there.
- [21:26]
Jason
Hilarious. I kind of appreciate the honesty.
- [21:29]
Jase
I do too. You know, we're talking about honesty. That seems to be the theme of our podcast.
- [21:33]
Jason
But that in letter form got a little weird. Yeah, but that's okay.
- [21:37]
Zach
Well, I, I was either the guy's really weird or he's really funny. One of the two, I think he was being funny. And if you, if that's you and you were being humorous, that was hilarious. If you, if that was you and you weren't trying to be funny, that.
- [21:51]
Jase
Was a little weird. Just going to say.
- [21:57]
Zach
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- [23:27]
Jase
Today we seem to be talking about integrity and honesty, which is also Very much highlighted in this text. And we kind of teased about the Antichrist, which. I'm going to read that text in just a minute. But Jason didn't want to leave this section without at least reading John sort of when he gets to the end of kind of this. This round, because I think we've said it before, it's almost like waves of his writing. It's like a sermon, I think, is what you said, where, you know, you make a point, and then you. Then you kind of go back and develop the point, then you come back and make the point again. And so it's more like. More like that as opposed to just like Paul's writing, which is kind of, you know, a whole thought that runs all the way through the letter.
- [24:09]
Jason
I mean, I do think it's bookended on that. In verse one and verse five, where he says, this is the message, he introduces Jesus as the life and our fellowship with him. And there's a little theme in the letter or sermon where he's. You're trying to figure out, because he'll say, like in verse four that we've read, or verse three that we've read many times, when he says, and our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. And so you're like, well, which one? Because he echoes that in the last verse where he says, and that we may know him who is true. We are in him who is true, even in his son, Jesus Christ. He is the true God of eternal life. And you're like, well, which one? And the answer is, yes, he's concluded that this man that he went around with and followed is God in a human form. And I think it's incredible.
- [25:19]
Jase
Yeah. And that's the underlying theme, really, of the whole book.
- [25:22]
Jason
So he has these two bookends where he's like, this is the message. God is light in him, there's no darkness. And then when he gets to chapter three and verse 11, he's like, this is the message you heard from the beginning. We should love one another. Right.
- [25:39]
Jase
So we made that contrast in the last podcast about light and dark, which took us down through verse 11 of chapter 2. But then he does something interesting. It's almost like a poem or a song.
- [25:53]
Jason
It seems like a song to me.
- [25:55]
Jase
Yes. It's like a refrain. Remember, it was at a house church. So they probably sang it. I mean, you know, some of these letters, they would definitely do that. And so he gives this little repetitive verse of a song or poem. And I thought it was interesting the way he frames it because he basically is talking to this house, church, and he's describing at every level of growth. He would be. He says, I want to read it. Verse 12. It says, I write to you, dear children. And as you said how many times he said, I write to you? He said it over and over. I write to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name. And we talked about that with the atonement idea. Then he says, I write to you, fathers. So we went from children to fathers because you have known him who is from the beginning, which is back to his reference in the first four verses when he talked about the creation and the role of Christ. I write to you, young men. So he's addressing three different groups here, because you have overcome the evil one. And then he repeats it again. I write to you, dear children, because you have known the Father. I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. It's like a song. I write to you young men, because you are strong and the word of God lives in you and you have overcome the evil one. So it's almost like at any stage, the way I read it was any stage of where you are in your growth as a Christian or even as a human being. At every level, whether you're very young, you get into the deal where you're building a family and you get into life later, you're a father, and you become a patriarch of your own clan. And at every stage of those, there's different things that motivate us. And I just thought it was really interesting the way he framed that. And, Zach, we were talking about in the last podcast how the darkness tends to always be an enemy to relationships, whether it's marriage, whether it's just taking advantage of some person and not seeing this person as a person, using people. We talked about all the darkness of that, and it's not having a concern about relationship. And so, John, I think right in the middle of this whole conversation, because the next three verses we've talked a lot about, and that was the comparison of the worlds. He sets that up by reminding people at any stage of relationship with other people, it's so important to be a man of God. I mean, you can. This is how you overcome evil. This is how you go back to the beginning. This is how you know who God is. And he says those themes over and over and over again. I just think it's a beautiful, you know, clip to be able to remind us about why this is so important. What we're discussing.
- [28:36]
Zach
Well, the reason why darkness kills the relationship is because to be in relationship is to actually be seen and known. And so that's kind of the epicenter of what it means to be in a relationship that you know each other and that you're known by each other. So going back to the Garden of Eden and think about what blocked intimacy in that scenario, when they ate the fruit and became sinners for the very first time. What was the result of that in terms of how did it block the relationship, first with God, then with each other? What they did was they. They blocked themselves from being seen, and they did it with fig leaves. But the goal is, let's put a barrier up in between your sight and then me. And that way you can't see the real me. And so what darkness does. It just blinds sight, right? So think about the idea of darkness is you can't see in it. You're stumbling around, you can't see. You can only just kind of feel your way through it, but you can't really see or know what's on the other side of you because everything is dark. And then when you think about, well, how would you be able to see? We just turn the lights on. You turn the light on, and all of a sudden, oh, wow, I can see the other person standing there. And now we can actually look at me, you know, in my face and talk to me. And you know, this is true. When you ever, like, if you've been married long enough and your wife may have said something like this, I just. I don't feel like I'm seen, you know, or some language about that. Like, Jill said that to me before. I just don't feel like you see me. I don't think you notice me. I don't feel like you're listening to me. That's darkness. Literally what it is. And so that's why the darkness is actually a killer of intimacy and a killer of relationships. Because it blocks us from knowing one another.
- [30:21]
Jase
Yeah, exactly.
- [30:23]
Jason
I wanted to bring up in that poem where he says, you have overcome the evil one. Because later he's going to say that the whole world in 1 John 5:19, is under the control of the evil one. You say, well, how do I overcome the evil one? Well, when you look up this word in the Greek lexicon, fascinating enough, in John 16:33, you find it where he says, I have told you these things so that in me you may have peace in this world. Because he's fixed to launch into don't love the world and all the cravings, the lust. We talked about that last time. But in this world, you'll have trouble. But take heart, I have overcome the world. And so the connection to the evil one to the world is obvious. Ephesians 2 speaks of this. There's a spirit of the evil one that is at work in the world to take them captive prisoners, make them slaves, all these different things.
- [31:35]
Jase
Ephesians 6, we talked about that.
- [31:37]
Jason
Yeah. And he does it through lies and murder and mayhem and death and deceit, deceiver and accusation and all that.
- [31:44]
Jase
And remember, he's not immortal. It's not dualism. Right, Zach? I mean, it's not God and Satan as if they're equals. He's a created being, but he has a network, as Joe Beam describes it in his great book about spiritual warfare, seeing the unseen. It's a network of evil from another realm, but that impacts us heavily.
- [32:10]
Zach
And it's not dualism because that realm was created. Correct.
- [32:14]
Jason
Another place this idea is used is Romans 12:21. Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. And so in his letter, in First John or sermon, you see this idea of the world come up right after this as he's talking in the relationships and fathers and sons, you've overcome the evil. And he says that twice. He also says it in verse 14 of chapter 2, but I want you to notice where it uses that word again, because I think this is the key verse, because we're fixed to talk about, you know, who is this Antichrist, or the spirit of the Antichrist is what it's really all about here from John's perspective, and we can read this later, the first three verses about testing every spirit of chapter four. Right. But when he gets to verse four of chapter four, I love this, you, dear children, because there's that same phrase that he starts the song. All right, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven. I write to you young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, dear children, because you have known the father.
- [33:23]
Jase
And remember at this point, this is John the Elder. He's always been an apostle, but now he's an older man.
- [33:30]
Jason
Yeah. And everybody's a child compared to him at this stage. You, dear children, are from God and overcome them. Well, who is them? Well, the spirit of the Antichrist. This is chapter four, verse three, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. Mmm. Well, I try to keep my dogs happy because they're performing a function. They are the guard dogs and little Hazel, she knows we have an arrangement. She barks at potential intruders, and I give her treats from rough greens.
- [34:11]
Jase
So dogs show up for us every day. The least we can do is take care of them. And that's why we love rough greens. We love our dogs. As they get older, they get a little slower and you're cleaning messes a lot more often. And traditional dog food is missing probiotics and enzymes and omega oils and the live vitamins and minerals that your dog needs to digest and absorb food. Ruff Greens is America's number one dog supplement. You sprinkle it right on their food. It's packed with all live nutrients that they need. Plus it's all natural and it's made right here in the usa. Ruff greens is helping dogs feel younger, more energetic and healthier than they have in years. Your dog could be one of them. Jason. Our dogs line up. They're happy, right? To get their rough green, they're happy.
- [34:55]
Jason
It's a treat that keeps on giving.
- [34:57]
Jase
My dogs look better. Their coats look better, they're healthier. And we're asking you to get a free jump start trial bag for your dog. You just cover the shipping. Go to roughgreens.com use the discount code. Unashamed rough greens. We make any dog food better.
- [35:17]
Jason
You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them. This passage should be up on your wall somewhere because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. Well, you say, well, who is in us? Well, he said that in chapter three and verse 24, he says, those who obey his commands live in him and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us. We know it by the Spirit he gave us. So then he uses this same word again in chapter five in verse four, this overcomer, being an overcomer, when it says, for everyone born of God. Well, this goes back to this picture that he described in John 1. Being born from God, not of human decision or natural descent, but born from above or born again, as he mentions in chapter three. For everyone born of God, a new creation think that overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the son of God. I just think it's a fantastic. If you put all that together, it's very powerful.
- [36:40]
Zach
Oh, yeah, it's interesting when you think about who who is the Antichrist. I mean, you know, this is a big discussion because I've grow up you know, every time we get like a, A Democratic president or something, people in my circle be like, that's the Antichrist or Bill Gates, you know, he's the Antichrist. Obama's the Antichrist. Bill Gates is the Antichrist. Elon Musk is the Antichrist. And right now there's a. There's. I haven't paid attention too much to the discussion, but even Peter Thiel is going around having this conversation about the Antichrist. I don't really know his perspective on it, but like, this is like a big time, like pop culture, you know, like idea, particularly like in the, you know, evangelical underbelly with like the Left behind series and, you know, all that that came out back in the. I don't know when that came out, the 90s. And so like this idea is. There's this figure who's going to come and he's going to set up this counter kingdom and he's going to draw these people away.
- [37:38]
Jase
Zach, you remember the series and I think they've now redone them again. What was it called? The Omen where, you know, the kid was born and he had the 666 on the. Under his hair line. And you know, it was like a famous movie back in the 70s, I think. And it was a series that came out and it was just what you're talking about. It was all based on this idea of this Antichrist and it was all pointed through prophecy and scripture and, you know, and the whole thing was that, you know, he would destroy people. And the movies were kind of entertaining, but I never understood the background of it when I was a kid. It was just. It was a scary movie. But that's kind of what you're talking about.
- [38:20]
Zach
Yeah, I think it's like we want that to be true in some capacity because it's. It's easier to think, man, if there's just a head of the snake that we can chop off and then the whole thing's done. Yeah, that's a lot more comforting because we have a direct target that we can access and we have a direct battle we can engage in. We got super duper Claire, you know, a lot of clarity on it. It's like. But the. But what the picture painted here is a little more different because it's not necessarily singling the idea of the Antichrist according to John in a particular person, but as Jace pointed out, more of the spirit of the Antichrist. And it's not necessarily a future event either because he says verse 18, just to reiterate children it is the last hour, and as you have heard that Antichrist is coming. So now many Antichrists have come. So it's whatever. It's tying this idea of the spirit of the Antichrist in the current age that they were currently in, in that moment, and I would argue, probably along with a host of other people, that spirit continues today. There's actually Antichrist today, and I don't know this idea. And I get it. I'm not like, I know there's a lot of diversity of view on this, but to single this out into a particular person, we're trying to figure out, identify that. I don't think that's the point of the text here. This is clearly talking about a particular kind of spirit that, as Jay said in the last podcast, he said. What did you say? You ended it with? The way you phrase it, it's almost like they're anti Christ or something. I forgot you, like, broke the word down, but when you said it, I.
- [40:00]
Jason
Think we overthink it. I mean, if you look, if you look at the. Where this word is used in the New Testament, you have any ideas how many times it's used Antichrist?
- [40:10]
Jase
I don't.
- [40:11]
Jason
I think you'll be shocked. It is used five times. Four of them are in First John and the other one is in Second John. You're like, what? How many books have been written?
- [40:26]
Jase
Yeah. And movies made and all the stuff we were just talking about.
- [40:30]
Jason
And First John 4, which is mentioned, seems to kind of clarify what he meant by this. And it's not very hard. I mean, it's like we were talking about hunting before. If someone is anti meat, they call.
- [40:47]
Jase
Them a vegetarian or vegan or whatever.
- [40:49]
Jason
Yeah. Or, you know, the animal rights or PETA, whatever. Whatever they want to call. And you see, it's not like one person. It's a spirit that you, you can, you can catch pretty quickly. They're like, someone will come up and they're like, oh, I don't, you know, I don't eat. I don't eat chicken or, you know, I was like, well, here's some shrimp. No, I don't, I don't eat. It's like, what do you eat? You know, things that grow. Oh, okay. Well, you're. So it doesn't really have to be like, it's one president somewhere who is the anti meat person? You know what I'm saying?
- [41:23]
Jase
Yeah, the vegetarian and cheese.
- [41:26]
Jason
I mean, we get it. I can recognize that spirit pretty quickly. And I don't care.
- [41:32]
Jase
I don't care.
- [41:32]
Jason
That you want to just eat things that grow. Fine.
- [41:35]
Jase
Dad would always say that. He'd say, hey, I love veggies. They're delicious. But don't tell me I can't eat my meat, for crying out loud.
- [41:44]
Jason
But I think you have to read chapter four, where it says, dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God. Because I wanted to read that. Because Even in Ephesians 2, talking about the evil one, it uses that same idea when it says, just think about how this. How this flows. He says, as for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins in which you used to live when you followed the ways of the world. And the ruler of the kingdom of the Earth, there is an evil one, but he is a created being. But then there's a common. It says the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. Well, you can pick up on the spirit even. I mean, the evil one is a created being. But if you talk to people, well, he's around every corner. He's in your bedroom.
- [42:37]
Jase
That's what Zach and I were talking about.
- [42:39]
Jason
He's not an immortal, omnipotent, omnipresent individual. Now, if you come face to spirit with him, the actual entity, I'm sure that would be frightening, terrifying. But the Earth's a big place, but the spirit of that is all around. I mean, you can pick up on it. So I think that's the better way to view it. I think what happened is when you get to where is it? 2 Thessalonians 2, it uses the man of lawlessness. Well, it uses the man of lawlessness. People say, well, there's the Antichrist. It never says Antichrist. You've just made that as part of this Antichrist theme that you're going with on who is the. Look, I've got a guy who I love dearly. He's one of my best friends, I think. And he got to 2 Thessalonians 2 in his Bible study. And he's never gone forward or backwards. He wants to know who the man of sin is, and he wants a detailed account.
- [43:41]
Jase
I want his name yesterday.
- [43:44]
Jason
Because he's like, nothing else can happen until that guy is revealed. And I usually go that same path. I was like, the one in us is greater than any spirit out there and any man. And I was like, I think it was a localized issue in two Thessalonians with a global impact. Because it's just like the spirit of the Antichrist. The man of sin. I don't need to know exactly if that's one person. I see that in men everywhere. Because if you read 2 Thessalonians 2, it kind of gives you a picture. He's in cahoots with the evil one. So it's not the evil one. That's what trumps people up on it. But I'll just read it. I think it's worth read.
- [44:28]
Zach
Before you do, let me say this because I think that. That framing is important of kind of what you just said. When you look at the whole context of First John, the whole book, the whole letter, he's not framing up an argument of the Church versus Rome or the Church versus a future dictator that's going to come in the future. That's not the framing of the text. The framing of the text is truth versus deception, life outside of Christ versus life inside of Christ. That it's truth versus deception. And so it's the illumination. That's why the darkness and the light. That's how we interpret this whole discussion as that. And when you're seeing it in that lens, I think it allows you to think about this more, probably how the text reads naturally, more of a spirit that is deceiving people. In this case, you know, I would argue that this is people who are part of the church have left the church. Like maybe those who have fully deconstructed and now using that deconstruction platform to draw other people away from Christ, like explicitly trying to pull people out of the kingdom. They're trying to say, no, don't follow him. It's a lie. I've been there, done that. And. And that's what I think this is like false teachers and like real false teachers. Not like just accusations or throwing at people, but real teachers who are trying to. Who have infiltrated the church and are trying to destroy it from within.
- [46:01]
Jase
So, Jase, when I was getting near 60, I had a realization that I was a bit overweight. Would you concur?
- [46:10]
Jason
Sometimes in life you have to state the obvious. So well done.
- [46:16]
Jase
So I tried it on my own. Didn't work out very well. And look, I've tried every diet that you can try. Paleo, Keto, Weight Watchers, I've tried them all. But the truth is it's really not about willpower. There's one thing that determines whether your body burns fat or stores it. And if you don't fix that, then your diet is going to fail. And so the good folks at PhD weight loss taught me that one thing about metabolism and it's unlocked everything for me. Here's a picture of me on YouTube if you're watching at the beginning. Here I am now 80 pounds later and the weight is staying off. This past year has been quite the health improvement as well as just being more active and loving life a lot more. So I know you've probably been thinking about it. Is this the year I jump in there? I'm telling you, go for it. If you call now, they'll give you two free weeks in the program and they pay for your food so you can finally see real results without more trial and error. If you're done with the O yo dieting and want clarity, call PhD weight loss now and mention Al. No more guessing, just answers. Call them at 864-644-1900 and say Ow. That's 864-644-1900. Or you can visit myphdweightloss.com.
- [47:34]
Jason
So you have second Thessalonians 1 in verse 6, where it's like God is just. He'll pay back trouble to those who trouble you. Give relief to your trouble. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those, which is really a theme in first John, those who don't know God, because John keeps bringing that up. You know him. You know him from the beginning. You have this relationship. You're in this partnership fellowship, participating with the triune God on a daily minute basis. So it's not going to be like you stand before God and you're like, oh, did I make it? Well, you're in him. This has been. This relationship has been going on way more intimate than a correspondence. You're walking in him in the light and praying and talking and representing. And so it's not going to be a shock either way. Deep down, everyone knows. And that's why I asked the question. I asked it last night at my event. I'm like, are you ready to meet your maker? It's a simple question. You stand before God. How are you going to be? Don't be surprised when he comes back. That's 1 Thessalonians 5:4. Remember, 1st Thessalonians 4 is about. We certainly don't grieve like the rest of men who have no hope. So that's why my plane, you know, it could have crashed. Guess what?
- [49:01]
Jase
Okay, you ready?
- [49:02]
Jason
I hate it, you know, but for the people I'm leaving behind, I'll miss my family for a little bit, but, oh, I'll see them Again, I mean, this is part of our journey. So. But when you read that. So then it goes to 2 Thessalonians 2, so that you already got that kind of like, well, this is the context, him coming back. But watch how this gets so distorted, because it says, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus and us being gathered to him, we ask you brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy report or letter supposed to have come from us saying that the day of the Lord has already come. Well, this is not unlike First John, where they had a group of people saying, hey, this Jesus, he's not the son of God. And he basically calls them anti Jesus because they're denying that Jesus is the son of God, which is why the Antichrist got developed. I think people are overthinking this. You can look at your life and just watch you and say, are you in Jesus or are you anti Jesus?
- [50:12]
Jase
Right.
- [50:13]
Jason
It's pretty evident. I don't think it's that. That hard to figure out.
- [50:18]
Jase
And we have the perspective of history to look back to see just that this word diocese, which comes from the Greek word dauchio, which means to appear or to be seen. So what they were saying was, Jesus, he looked like he was a man, but he wasn't really a man. So that's where this whole thing came from. And then Gnosticism comes later after John, which then takes that even further. So, I mean, I'm saying historically, we can look back and see what developing in this mindset about saying that Jesus really wasn't here in the flesh.
- [50:51]
Jason
Well, that's what they were saying.
- [50:52]
Zach
Yeah. I think that some of it, though, is. I don't know if it's just that someone is not in Christ. I think these are people who are intentionally trying to persuade people and deceive people away from Christ. Because the reason why I say that is because in verse 26, he says the reason why I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. So these are. I think these are.
- [51:16]
Jase
And lead you astray.
- [51:17]
Zach
He says, yeah, yeah. So like you. And this is. This is really important because there are. And look, I mean, especially like now with TikTok Culture Instagram, you know, somebody was telling me the day about a particular professor who's done it. And I don't know if this guy was ever a Christian or not, but he's certainly Antichrist. And everything that he's doing is. Is trying to pull people away from Christ. And this particular person, like their faith was really damaged by this person's particular. This particular person's content. Because they were making these really incredibly compelling cases of why the Bible's not real, why Jesus isn't who he said he was, all these things. And this person was being drawn, they were being deceived. And a lot of what they were listening to wasn't even rooted in truth. And it was so funny because Max has been in a conversation with this person. It's one of his friends, and he found another person on the Internet who had addressed all of this, other commentators, accusations that were just blatant lies. And they were completely fabricated. They weren't embedded in the truth. And so Max was so excited because he's like, yeah, this guy was a liar in the first place. And so I think that that's more the spirit of the Antichrist. That's more that, like, we're intentionally trying to shipwreck this thing. I mean, I could be wrong, but I do think that the text lends more towards, like, that as the Antichrist, as some way.
- [52:45]
Jason
Well, we agree. I'm saying, though, the backdrop I'm giving is there's only two camps. You have leaders in both camps. And so this is the leadership of said camp, human and spiritual beings who are actively trying to destroy the other camp. I mean, and I think that's what's happened. And my whole point, bringing up two Thessalonians two doesn't say Antichrist. It's this man of lawlessness who sets himself up in the temple of God. What verse is that? Verse 4. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or. Or is worshiped so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God. Well, the temple was destroyed A.D. 70. And I'm like. I think we had a local phenomenon that continues from then till now of people setting themselves up as God. They're called false teachers, men of sin and lawlessness. I think when you try to figure out exactly who this person is, you're doing yourself and injustice. It's a pattern that will continue until Jesus comes back, which he. That is the context. These people will be revealed. Because I know we're almost out of time. I wanted just to. I wanted to read the last couple verses, then you can tie it up. So in verse nine, it says, the coming of the lawless one. And remember, in Greek, that's translated. In English, it's appearing or coming. The word is a tricky word. It doesn't necessarily mean, like, coming at a later Date, it just. It's revealed. It appears like sometimes it says Jesus is coming back, but sometimes it says he will appear. And keep that in mind, but it will be in accordance with the work of Satan. So within that camp, you have different aspects of leadership, who people are setting themselves up as God. And they had told these Thessalonians, oh, that's already happened. Jesus has already come back. And so now they've got. But they have evil intent in mind. And I know that because verse 10 it says they do all these counterfeit miracles, signs, wonders, every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish. Here's the bottom line. Because they refuse to love the truth or walk in the light and so be saved. And for this reason, God sends them a powerful delusion so that they'll believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth and have delighted in wickedness. Go ahead.
- [55:24]
Zach
Yeah, and I think it ties directly into the very end of 1 John 2. Because what he says to your point, and then I framed it up earlier, it's not church versus Rome, church versus future evil dictator. It's truth versus deception, which you just said. I mean, that's the delusion, the truth that refuse to love the truth. And then if you read this, he says, I write this to you about those who are trying to deceive you. But here's the contrast. But the anointing that you have received. So somehow, if you're in Christ, you've received a particular kind of anointing. And listen how this plays into the temple language. You've received an anointing from him who abides in you. Who abides in you. The Holy Spirit abides in you. So now we're the temple. And because of that, he says, here you have the need that anyone should teach you. No more central authority, leadership, where you got to go into the temple and sit like a bird. They just feed you the worms. No, no, no. You actually have the Spirit in you. You don't need to be taught, but you have his anointing that teaches you about everything. And guess what? It is true. And there's no light in it. Just as he has taught you. Abide in Him. That's the picture. The picture is about the participation in the life of Christ through the indwellment of the Holy Spirit who does guide you into all truth. I don't need to be taught. Can I learn from other people? Yes. But I don't have to go under any kind of centralized authority. To receive revelation from the Holy Spirit about God. I have his Holy Spirit living in me, and I have his word right here in front of me. That's been inspired by the Holy Spirit. That tells me what truth is.
- [57:08]
Jase
I love it. The deep truth of the Holy Spirit. You got him. So we'll. We'll discuss this more next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.