Ep 1273 | The Only 2 Ways to Show That You Really Love God

Summary

---

Unashamed With the Robertson Family – Ep 1273

"The Only 2 Ways to Show That You Really Love God"
Airdate: February 19, 2026
Hosts: Jason (Jase) Robertson, Zach, Dan (with mentions of Phil, Al, and Missy)

---

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the Robertson family's deep dive into the biblical book of 1 John, exploring its distinctive themes and practical implications for authentic Christian living. The conversation zeros in on how believers can truly demonstrate their love for God, focusing on John's dual commandments: to believe in Jesus Christ and to love one another. The Robertsons weave in personal stories, Bible study observations, and honest dialogue about faith, doubt, community, and the challenge of living out love in a divided world.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Structure and Style of 1 John

• John’s Unique Approach: Unlike Paul’s linear writing, John is described as more "circular” and repetitive, possibly due to his age and intent to deeply reinforce key truths (01:09).
  • Quote:

    "We talk about Paul's writings being linear...But John is this particular. And I think it's because he's older...he tends to try to make the same point several times."
    — Zach (01:09)

2. Personal Encounter: Gospel at the Airport

• Jase shares a story of meeting a young woman at an airport who confessed her Christian faith was not reflected in her lifestyle, sparking an impromptu “altar call without a sermon” (06:09–09:26).
  • Key Lesson: Authentic Christianity is rooted in personal knowledge of Jesus, not just church attendance or rituals.
  • Quote:

    "If this is not personal, if you don't believe he's real and he's out there and...seeking you and that's why he came to earth, none of this is going to register in your life."
    — Jase (08:06)

3. The Importance of ‘Ifs’ and ‘This is How We Know’ in 1 John

• 24 'Ifs' in 1 John: The multitude of conditional statements challenges listeners to consider the practical outcomes of faith—if/when we sin, if we claim fellowship, etc. (12:02–16:58)
  • Analysis of translation nuances: Sometimes “if” is rightly read as “when,” indicating certainty about Jesus’ return, for example.
  • Quote:

    "All those 'ifs'...the two that are translated 'when'...Because if just wouldn't have the same ring if he appears, we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming."
    — Jase (15:00)

• "This is how we know": Repeated throughout 1 John, signaling how believers can have assurance in their faith and lifestyle (17:05–21:54).

4. The Central Command: Faith In Christ & Love for Others

• Key Command Explored:
  • 1 John 3:23: “And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.” (21:54–22:04)
  • Quote:

    "Drum roll. What is this command? ...To believe in the name of his son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us."
    — Jase (22:04, 28:08)

• Not Legalism or Mere Ritual: The focus is on participation in God’s love, not just intellectual assent or rule keeping.
  • Quote:

    "It's not really about proving their loyalty to me...I'm actually telling you, if you want to eat, there's the food. So the commandments...are descriptions and instructions of walking in the pathway of joy."
    — Dan (39:10)

5. The Challenge and Simplicity of Love

• Listener Pushback: Zach recounts criticism that “loving God and loving your neighbor is not enough,” and the team rebuts that with Jesus' own priorities and the practical outworking of faith (24:41–26:43).
• Loving Those Who Differ: The Robertsons discuss modern cultural and political divides, emphasizing that love for one another—especially those with opposing views—is non-negotiable for Christians (27:03).
  • Quote:

    "If you're a Christian...this is the standard by which John is applying...And then you love one another. You do that."
    — Dan (27:59)

6. Knowing God Personally (Not Just Knowing About God)

• Emphasis on Relationship Over Ritual:
  • Jase and Zach stress that genuine Christian life is marked by firsthand knowledge of God.
    • Quote:

      "The simple answer was, you don't know him. Because if you knew him, you would know that he's been pursuing you the whole time."
      — Jase (37:07)

    • Quote:

      "Relationship over ritual or religion...Everything goes back to the relationships, especially the ones that are showing love."
      — Jase (42:29)

• Repeated Theme: “Knowing Him” (mentioned 25+ times in 1 John) is portrayed as active, ongoing participation in God’s own life and love.

7. Stories of Love in Action

• Listener Testimony: Zach highlights a couple undergoing cancer who, in their suffering, reach out to help another family—the power of love bearing fruit in difficult circumstances. (40:21–42:27)

8. Childlike Faith

• Jase’s Family Story: The joy and purity in his four-year-old grandson’s excitement about being with loved ones illustrates the heart of authentic, childlike faith that Jesus commends (43:42–48:09).

9. What if We Don’t Feel Faith or Love?

• Encouragement for the Struggling:
  • Dan explains that faith grows with time and practice, paralleling Paul’s teaching about Abraham in Romans 4—encouraging those who have the “latent desire” to seek God to simply begin the rhythms of gratitude, prayer, and service. (50:26–53:48)
    • Quote:

      "Faith is something that can go stronger. What is faith? Your trust in God...that grows as you spend time with him."
      — Dan (51:20)

• C.S. Lewis Reference: The bittersweet necessity of dying to our old ways in order to embrace God’s new life (53:48).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Assurance:

  “This is how we know we are in Him…”
  — 1 John refrains repeatedly cited (17:05 and throughout)

• On Love and Simplicity:

  "At some point we get older and we become independent and we start missing the things that matter, which is you're knowing God in an intimate way and knowing people and having that love be the connective tissue."
  — Jase (48:13)

• On Living Out Faith:

  "The commandments in the burden, it's just, I'm just giving you instructions. You say you're hungry. I'm saying, oh, go in the pantry or go in the fridge. That's how you should see the commandments of God."
  — Dan (39:10)

---

Key Timestamps for Segments

• 01:09 – John’s "circular" writing style vs. Paul’s linear style
• 06:09 – Airport encounter: real-life faith conversation
• 12:02–16:58 – Study of “if” (and “when”) in 1 John
• 17:05–21:54 – Exploration of “This is how we know”
• 21:54–28:08 – The two great commandments in 1 John 3:23 unpacked
• 24:41–26:43 – Pushback on love as “too simple” and loving amidst division
• 28:08–31:20 – Greek for ‘agape’ love & its significance
• 37:07–42:29 – “Knowing” God vs. knowing about God; faith as relationship
• 43:42–48:09 – Story of childlike joy and faith from Jase’s family
• 50:26–53:48 – When faith is hard: Abraham’s example and C.S. Lewis on change

---

Conclusion & Takeaways

The Robertsons reinforce that, according to 1 John, there are only two genuine ways to show love for God:

1. Believe in Jesus Christ (faith is personal trust, not merely doctrine)
2. Love one another (love is practical, actionable, and essential)

To live this out is neither simplistic nor easy but is the beautiful, childlike calling of those who know God and are known by Him.

---

Reflections for Listeners

• “If you’re wondering whether you love God, ask: Are you trusting Christ, and are you loving others—even those who are difficult to love?”
• Feeling stuck? Begin the rhythms—prayer, gratitude, service—and you’ll find God meeting you there, transforming desire into reality over time.
• Childlike joy and relationship are at the heart of authentic Christianity—the real proof isn’t ritual, but loving relationship with God and people.

---

This summary was created to capture the heart, teaching, and stories of this Unashamed episode, so you can take away its core wisdom without missing the family’s warmth or scriptural insight.

Transcript

[Narrator]

Monster Energy. Everybody knows White Monster, Zero Ultra, that's the OG it kicked off this whole zero sugar energy drink thing. But Ultra is a whole lineup now. You've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian Sunrise, and Vice Guava. And they all bring the Monster Energy punch. So if you've been living in the White can branch out. Ultra's got a flavor for every vibe, and every single one is Zero Sugar Tap the banner to learn more.

[Jason]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Zach]

So welcome back to Unashamed. It's been a day for y', all, but it's been four minutes for us.

[Jason]

It's been four minutes and the last.

[Zach]

Since the last podcast.

[Jason]

I wanted to make an announcement about first John, because we're like halfway through the book.

[Zach]

Yep.

[Jason]

Well, I just realized the introduction,

[Zach]

like

[Jason]

two months into this, what we should have done from the beginning, I just learned. And I think it's the way this book is designed has caused that.

[Zach]

Yeah, it's a John. We've tried to frame it several ways as we've been studying it, because the way in my mind it works for me is it's a circular. You know, we talk about Paul's writings being linear. Like, they start, he makes his point. You kind of did an overview, y' all did a couple of podcasts ago. The whole book of Romans, you start one place and Paul just goes a straight line to get to the end of what he's trying to say. But John is this particular. And I think it's because he's older, is my opinion when he's writing this. And so when you're older, you tend to try to make the same point several times. I got that from dear old dad watching him make a point.

[Jason]

Well, and I brought up the fact that I noticed these 3L qualities, which I shared this with someone in an airport terminal because they asked me, they said, what do you think God is like? Which. Well, you talking about low hanging fruit Question. I said, well, he became a man to answer that question. His name was Jesus. Maybe I should back up and tell you this story because I told you two stories that happened in the airport. Well, look, had this happen, we're sitting there.

[Zach]

This is the same trip.

[Jason]

Same trip.

[Zach]

Okay.

[Jason]

I just didn't tell this story. This would have been the third conversation if you're keeping score from the last podcast. So I get up. Oh, my phone was dying and I wanted to plug my phone in. So when I got up, people had been staring at me, which is not unusual. I thought they're trying to figure Out. Is this one of these guys from the duck show?

[Zach]

Right.

[Jason]

You know, that's what they were saying. I've tried everything in the world now. Now that's Dan sending me a text, and the butler is trying to get a hold of me. He's called me in the last podcast. And now, by the way, for those

[Zach]

of you who've been wondering about what happened to Dan, this is a proof of life. Dan is still here. He still works for us, even though his role has changed.

[Jason]

I'm feeling sorry for my dad right now. And he. He's no longer on the planet in bodily form, because how long is that

[Zach]

text, though, is what I want to know. Because he sends some. He sends some mini novellas to me quite often.

[Jason]

Well, he gives you the.

[Dan]

Give the audio version where he'll call, he'll record the message.

[Zach]

It's like 10 minutes.

[Jason]

If you're wondering what happened to Dan, we had an awkward conversation. Not that Dan's an awkward human being. I'm just saying, an awkward conversation because now my dad's gone on to be with the Lord, and he was my dad's butler, so there should be a movie about that or something. What Happened to the Butler?

[Zach]

Yeah, because that's a good movie title. Maybe that could be. Maybe that could be the next Lifetime movie. Zach, after my.

[Jason]

Do you get in Phil's truck and you drive and just think, do I keep doing my job here? Even though. Because.

[Zach]

Because he actually drives now. Dad's old work truck.

[Dan]

Oh, I know.

[Jason]

It's gotten weird. And so basically, I'll sum up the conversation that I had with him, because he was. He was basically saying, can I still work here?

[Zach]

Yeah, what's. What does it look like?

[Jason]

But I took that to mean, do I need a butler? And I was like, I don't need a butler. So how about you check in from time to time and we'll make sure

[Zach]

for those of you that worry for dad, butler is an affectionate term. We called him that. So this is. We're not demeaning Dan.

[Jason]

Here's the problem with that. Dan believed that he embraces.

[Zach]

He does have butler qualities. Yeah.

[Jason]

So anyway, Dan's doing fine, and we still have. Have jobs for him.

[Zach]

And by the way, one of the things he does. And this is. I don't know, this is a job responsibility, but it's certainly something that's very meaningful and you'll appreciate this. Those of you that love our mom out there, he brings in, he takes care of her two dogs because she can't take care of them in town. And so he takes care of them, and he brings them in to see her usually one or two days a week, every week. And they. And they'll spend the whole afternoon there. And, you know, she gets to be with the dogs and play with them. And so it's.

[Jason]

Well, I'll give you a mom update, and then I'll tell the story, because the story is very powerful. But my mom came and visited me the day before I left. Now, all of y' all out there, that's. That's not registering. My mom.

[Zach]

We.

[Jason]

We've been visiting my mom for months, and she's. She's gotten so much better that she has her own little house now. But she just popped in now. She had a chauffeur and unannounced. And she's like, I just wanted to visit, and came walking in without a walker. Hadn't seen her do that, which made me nervous. But. And so she's really come a long way. She's doing great when she's dropping in and just hanging out. So she's doing fantastic. So thank you, Lord, for that.

[Zach]

Yes.

[Jason]

So I'm in the airport to get up to charge my phone, and this young woman comes up and says, you know, you mind if we have a picture? And so I look, and there's a guy standing there. I was like, oh, y' all are together? She's like, well, yeah, we're. We're. We're dating. And I said, oh, cool. She's like, but I'm from Texas, and he is from Iowa. I was like, well, that's crazy. And we were in Dallas. Let's see, our meeting up in Dallas.

[Zach]

How's this work?

[Jason]

But she said, I need airport romance. She said, I need your advice on something. After we took the picture, she can ask your advice on something.

[Dan]

I was like, we're doing dating advice?

[Jason]

Well, I said, now, look, I'm not the brightest bulb of humans on the planet, so it depends on what this advice is about. I was already lowering expectations because I thought, like, Zach, I thought, she's going to ask me for some kind of dating advice. I just met these people. But she said, well, I was raised in a Christian home. And then I. As soon as she said that, I thought, oh, she's f. This. We're fixed to have a Jesus conversation right in the middle of this gate at the airport. So I was raised in a Christian home. I was baptized. I've always believed in God, but my life does not reflect that. Wow. That was the Question.

[Dan]

But she said it.

[Jason]

She said it.

[Dan]

That's quite the confession.

[Jason]

So I looked over at the boyfriend and thought, see if I can get anything out of him. And he just kind of hung his head down, you know. And I said, well, you know, this is not about. Because she said, I've been going to church my whole life. She threw that phrase in, but my life doesn't reflect. I was like, well, you threw in that phrase, going to church your whole life. I was like, it's not very hard to go to a building that we call church now, which is not really what that is. It has nothing to do with the building. I said, we are followers of Jesus. So I went through my spiel about the Book of John. I was like, I think here's my advice. You need to read the Book of John and just see who Jesus is. Now, look, I didn't even get finished with that speech and just see what you think of him. Because if this is not personal, if you don't believe he's real and he's out there and that he's close and that he's pursuing you and he's seeking you and that's why he came to earth, none of this is going to register in your life. Well, I'm kind of going through my speech, but I look at it. Oh, tears are flowing, conviction. And I said, now, when you do that for real, not just hearing me say it, when you really go through there, I was like, it's going to affect your lifestyle and the way you live. I'm looking at this old boy here. I'm putting two and two together. I'm like, she's come up here and said, my life is not reflecting, but I want some advice. And I'm like, well, you need to figure out who Jesus is. That's how he communicates. But I thought, what a powerful moment we just had here. And so when I went back and sat down, Missy was like, what was all that about? I was like, she just came up and turned herself in. My life is not right. I was like, that was an altar call without a sermon.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jason]

And she responded. And we just had that. Ma. I told her about it, you know,

[Zach]

and look, that was Jesus. That was the. That was exactly what John describes in First John, the end of chapter one and verse, couple of verses. Chapter two, it says, if you confess your sin, you tap into this idea we're talking about. It's that reflective look we have. You know, you have.

[Jason]

That's why I had an epiphany, because you know, when I go on these trips, I just take my Bible. And so I kept reading one John because we're studying one John. And I had that happen and for whatever reason it affected me because I thought this sounds like the book of John. She's like, I'm claiming to have fellowship with him, yet I'm not walking in the light. I'm claiming to do this, but, but I'm not loving.

[Zach]

She was, she was a walking, living, breathing person personifying exactly what we've been studying. And she just said it out loud.

[Dan]

So, Jace, you got your feet kicked up and it looks like you're wearing something special there. What you got on?

[Jason]

I received a pair of Brunt work boots, but only now have I put them to the test. Lot of chainsawing, a lot of walking over big piles of brush fires going off. And this is post ice storm and they've held up quite nicely.

[Dan]

I've wore mine quite a bit as well. Yeah, these boots hold up. You got on the Marin's the same boots I got. They have a great selection of boots. Whether you're looking for waterproof or safety toe or soft toe, pull on or lace up, Brunt's got it covered. This might be the most comfortable work boots on the planet and they're built for comfort and they're built to perform day after day. Brunt isn't just about workbench either though. They offer a full range of high performance gear built for tough jobs from heavy duty work pants to weather resistant jackets. Plus Brunt has free shipping and they let you try on the boots for free. If they don't blow you away, just send them back. These boots are absolutely amazing. I love my Brunt boots. Brunt was tired of the workwear brands out there cutting corners. You work too hard to be stuck in an uncomfortable boot that doesn't hold up. So they built something better. Boots that are insanely comfortable and built for any job site. And for a limited time, our listeners get $10 off at Brunt when you use our code unashamed at checkout. So just head on over to bruntworkware.com use the code unashamed and you're good to go. And after you order, they're going to ask you about where you heard about Brunt. So please do us a favor and tell them it was from this show, bruntworkware.com code unashamed

[Jason]

so here's the introduction. I'd like to get your thought. Four things stood out to me when I read this. Two or three Times, actually, previous to that encounter. And then after I read it, four things that I did not notice. I don't know why we didn't bring up. One was the big word that has two letters of if. I did not realize how many times that word is used in the book of John 22 times. Now, if you read it, you're only going to see 20. And you say, well, how do you know there's 22 when it's only in the NIV? There's only 20. If you have a different translation, it may be the correct 22. But when you look up the word if and look in the Greek word, well, it came up 22 times. And I thought, that's weird, because I read it and circled every time it said if. And I only came up with 20. Yeah, well, twice it's translated differently than if it's when. And that moment was really powerful for me, and that's why I wanted to share this. And you say, well, what are some of the ifs? So I went and circled every time it says it. It doesn't take very long before you get into them. And I've already mentioned two or three, but first, John 1:6. If we claim to have fellowship with him, yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another. Blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. And you're so tempted to say, well, what if I don't? What if I don't? But he's trying to say, look, you're in this fellowship. This is. It should be when. It should be translated in our lives. When we walk, when we claim to have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we know we're lying and not living by the truth. It should be that. But the word is if. And so I think it'll be a good study for you if you look up all those ifs. What I found fascinating is the two that it's translated when is in where we're at right now. So first John 2:28. And now, dear children, continue in him. So that when. Well, it's the same word for if, as if. Well, you know why they translated it when? Because it can be if or when, depending. If you go down the Greek.

[Zach]

Because they know he's coming back.

[Jason]

Exactly. Somebody's translating this and say, well, wait a minute now.

[Zach]

When.

[Jason]

If he comes. This is not from the human perspective about there is a if there. If you. If you're, you're walking by the, you know, if you're claiming to live in Jesus.

[Zach]

So the ifs tend to be for us, the winds tend to.

[Jason]

That's kind of what I concluded. But there is one other difference,

[Dan]

and

[Jason]

that is in First John 2. 1. So I want to go back and say now, they did do this one if, which it should be when. But the word is better translated if from my, you know, I'm saying I'm giving you some Greek scholarship that I do not have scholarship on. You can look it up for yourself. But I found this funny because when he says, my dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense. I think they pretty much could have

[Zach]

said when, because that's going to happen.

[Jason]

So when you go to Daniel 3, you get. We're back to that song that Mercy me. Did we add them on.

[Zach]

On the Even if Bar talked about it?

[Jason]

Yeah, yeah. And we, we talked about that. But I applied that here where I know it says but if anybody does sin, even if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense. It's a powerful thought, which is going to happen inevitably. But don't you find it fascinating? So the other time that it's translated when is right after that in First John 2, where it says so that when he appears. Because if just wouldn't have the same ring if he appears, we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming. You know that he is righteous. So it's first John 3:2 is the other if translated when it says, dear friends, now, we are children of God, and what we will be be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, it's the same word. And that's why it can mean when. And so there it is.

[Zach]

Yeah, when it in the alternate there in the niv, there's a little letter there. Or when it is made known.

[Jason]

Okay, so I started with the ifs. And I shouldn't have. I started. I should have started with the second thing, which is so we can reverse these is how many times he says this is how we know. Now it's translated in other places by this. And sometimes it's not translated, it's in the text, but they just leave it out. You will be fascinated how many times he says this in this letter. And I, I just did a little Google search just to speed up the process. Look at 1 John 2 and verse 5 it says the second part of the. The second sentence says, this is how we know we are in Him. Well, verse three says the same thing. They just put, we know that if we come to know Him. It just says same. Same phrase. They just didn't put it in there. This is how we know that we've come to know Him. If we obey his commands, then he's like, this is how we know that we're in Him. Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. But look at three. One. It's right where we're at again. First John 2, one John 3, first John 3, 10. Look at this. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are. Anyone who does not do what is right and is not a child of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother. What it makes me think, you know how people. When you'll say something profound, like in a text, and somebody will be like this, and they'll point. They'll point up like this.

[Zach]

This is what I'm talking about.

[Jason]

But he says this over and over. Look, First John 3:16, same phrase. This is how we know what love is. I mean, there was a song about this. I Want to Know what love is. First John 3:16. There it was.

[Zach]

And I keep thinking, every time you say, this is how we know, I think of that song from the 90s. This is how we do it. Do you remember that song, Zach? This is how we do. Every time you say this, how we know. In my mind, he might have ran

[Jason]

first yawn at some point, but look, people are like, what do I do? What do I do if this happened? Well, this. If you just take all the statements, the next one. 1 John 3:19. It's the same phrase over and over and over. First John 3:19. This, then, is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 3, 24. Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us. We know it by the spirit he gave us. You see how I keep raising my voice because I think that's what he was doing. He was like, this is how you know this. This is how you know. It's the same phrase over and over. Chapter four, verse two. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God. Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. But every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. I mean, don't you find this fascinating? Four, six, same phrase.

[Zach]

What is four, six, last sentence.

[Jason]

This is how we recognize the spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood. 4:13.

[Zach]

And you notice everyone is reinforcing a positive in a book with a lot of negatives.

[Jason]

It really is.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jason]

We know that we live in him and he and us, because he's given us his spirit. Was that 4:13. We know this.

[Zach]

He didn't say, this is how. He just said we know.

[Jason]

Well, but it should have been. Yeah. So they take sometimes the Greek, for whatever reason, by this we know. And he took out the. By this. 5, 2.

[Zach]

This is how we know.

[Jason]

This is how we know that we love the children of God. By loving God and carrying out his commands. And by the way, he defined the commands, what they mean, because he brings that up three or four times. So he defines these commands that he keeps bringing up in first John 3. 23. I never had noticed this because I hadn't looked at the text. And in this light where he's like. And this is how we know we obey his commands. You're like, well, what are the commands? Are you talking about the old law? Well, he defined that in First John 3. 23. And this is his command because it's another this. You see what I mean?

[Zach]

Yep.

[Jason]

To believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

[Zach]

So, Jase, one of the things that happened to me, it happens to a lot of people in me middle age, is you begin to realize the metabolism has slowed and you start putting on some weight. And for men, it's usually right here in the gut. And so a year ago, I realized I need to lose a couple of pounds.

[Jason]

I think that was a good call, Al.

[Zach]

And that too, turned into 80, which is what I needed to lose. And really, the folks at PhD, what they helped me understand, because I tried all the diets, the Paleo, the Weight Watchers, the intermittent fasting, all the things you do, and you start thinking it's just a willpower issue, but it's really a metabolism metabolism issue. And so when I changed that through their program, it changed everything for me. It was high protein, it was low carbs, and my metabolism has reinstated itself, and I've lost weight. Here's a picture of me at the beginning of the journey. You see me now, so it definitely works. £80 later, I feel better. I'm exercising regular again because you're always like, man, if I could just exercise more. And so first you got to get a few of those pounds off for that to be able to happen. I ditched my CPAP machine, which I had had for over 10 years, and my meds are almost non existent. Life is better with Ph.D. and so now's the time for you to check it out. If you call now, they'll give you two free weeks in the program and pay for your food so you can finally see real results without more trial and error. If you're done with yo yo dieting and you want clarity, call Ph.D. weight Loss now and mention Al. No more guessing, just answers. Call 864-644-1900 and say Ow. That's 864-644-1900. Or you can visit them at my Ph.D. weight Loss dot com.

[Dan]

Well, that's a, that's a big thing when you start thinking about your own life and you think. Because the whole point is if he says, if you don't love your brother, then you're, you can't love God. And I'll tell you right now, I, I thought about that as, as enemies have crept up in my life over the years. And it is very, very easy to let Satan grab you and pull you into just kind of like this ongoing, ever increasing, ever deepening resentment and, and which will ultimately turn into bitterness and hatred towards your brother. And it's very clear here. When you think about the commandments of God, I mean, the byproduct of knowing and believing in Jesus is that that gives you the capacity then to love one another. And it's, that's, that's quite the, quite the litmus test, you know, I mean, you want to know how do I really?

[Zach]

And you do. You do make a choice. I got a note through our website, a person sent recently and I didn't recognize at first what he was. It was actually not a pot. It was a negative, I guess, aimed at us. He didn't, he didn't directly say it, but here's what he said. He said, my wife and I have tried God. We tried this. You know, we've listened to your family. And here was this statement. He said, but it's embarrassing to say that loving God and loving your neighbor is enough. Yeah. And that was all he said. And so first I read it and I thought, what's he trying to say?

[Dan]

Like, was he chastising you?

[Zach]

Yeah, it's like, y' all are so simple minded that like, because he's like, I'm giving up on God because my, my life hadn't worked out. And he's like, you guys are embarrassing to say it's something as simple.

[Jason]

And the whole point of the first law was to love God and love other people. And that continued. Jesus just introduced a new way to get to that point, through his spirit that lives in us. I have those arguments all the time with people. People by nature, for whatever reason, love being under law. Just give me the rules, let me

[Dan]

keep them, and I'll get back to you. T.S. eliot said that we develop these systems so that we don't have to be good. But, you know, if we're. Hey, if we're out of our mind, we're out of our mind for Christ. And maybe it is embarrassing to some people, but I think that this commandment to love one another extends beyond even just that familiar, like the relationships inside a family. I mean, I think this is a cultural problem that we have right now that, particularly with politics, you want to get your head chopped off in the cultural, like, ecosystem, just get on YouTube and say something, make a strong political stance. And I mean, they're coming. Right or left, they are coming. And yeah, man, this is. I mean, this is kind of really controversial, but.

[Jason]

Come on with it.

[Dan]

But problems, the problems we have as a culture, they can't be solved by politics. No, I know it's controversial.

[Zach]

Why is that controversial?

[Jason]

I would call that common sense.

[Zach]

In fact, I would say politics have added much to the division of people.

[Jason]

Well, I mean.

[Dan]

Well, we're, we're. I mean, I would say I'm, I'm politically conservative, but I don't hate liberal Democrats. I don't. And I think that if you do, then you're not loving your brother. And that does not mean just. You give word. You know, you just give the words that I love you. It's actually you embody that and actually live that out and vice versa. I mean, we have to love one another, even if we are fundamentally opposed to each other's ideologies or ideas or philosophies. I mean, if you're a Christian, at least. I mean, if you're not a Christian, I mean, yeah, this standard doesn't apply to you, but this is the standard by which John is applying. He's applying the standard to people who claim to love God. Well, how do I know if I love God? Well, you believe. You believe in Jesus the Christ, and then you love one another. You do that.

[Zach]

Well, that's why when Jay said that a minute ago and read that text, I thought that's exactly what John is articulating, is at the heart of everything. That is the commandment.

[Jason]

Well, that's why I wanted to read that. This, that was the biggest this moment for me was that the one I just read when he said, and this is his command. And you're like, drum roll. What is this command? Because he had said that over and over. This is how we know way back in chapter two, that we have come to know him first John 2, 3, if we obey his commands. So he keeps with that line. But you're like, what are these commands, John, Brother John. And then he spells it out, and this is his command. Drum roll. What's he fixed to say? To believe in the name of his son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. Those who obey his commands live in him and he and them. And this is how we know that he lives in us. We know it by the spirit he gave us. So you have all these, this moments, then we have all our ifs. And the wins are when Jesus is involved. It's like when we sin, not if we sin, he comes to our defense, just like he came to pursue us, which is why he came to this earth. We talked about that on the last podcast. Same principle. He's coming. He's there looking for you. And so Zach actually did a perfect segue. The other interesting thing I noticed. Now, look, I know I talked about the three Ls, the light, the life, and the love. But do you know the agape love word in First John 45 times 45? Now what's fascinating is when you look that up and look at the Greek word. Cause it's used in two different ways. Even that word, because one is just the essence of it. There's two variations of the word. Because if you look up agape, you may see half that, but then that in action is another form of agape. So it's like. But isn't that what this is talking about? That itself was fascinating because half the times that this self giving, ultimate sacrificial love, the Greek word for it is agape is used. Equally the action of it is used, and I forgot it's, I don't know, 400, I guess, a couple of hundred times apiece. Because that's what he's trying to say, God is love. So that would be, you know, the noun. But then we love one another because we're participating in that love and it comes out, which is what he's saying over and over and over. And I'm not going to go all through the 45 verses. Just saying that's a pivotal moment in this book, is that this love must come out. You can't participate in this awesome love. That's such a good point. Without it coming out. That's what struck me.

[Dan]

Because the way that this would typically be read is, okay, now I need to go make sure that I confirm my election, so to speak, or I confirm my status with God. I confirm that I actually love him, that I actually am a Christian. Let me go confirm that by doing these things. And that's not the point of the text. The point is this. How you know if you love God is you actually believe in Jesus. Meaning I trust in his revelation and I love my brother. This is the byproduct of it. And so it is about participation. And it's not even. I don't think this is even meant to draw us into, like, how do I know I'm saved? I don't think that's the point here. I think what John is unfolding, and particularly in First John, is what you said, Jason. We kept using this language intentionally, for that matter, about participation. It's much more participatory in the life of God, in communion with God than it is about, I got the right system down, down pat. Now I've organized my thoughts correctly. I hold in my container the right belief about God, that that's not really what he's talking about here. When he says believe in Jesus, he's not saying, believe in the right doctrines about Jesus. Not that doctrine doesn't matter. It matters. But this is. This is more of a participation in the life of Jesus. And the reason why you know that is because when he gets to the end of First John, we'll get there in a little while. He talks about these commandments and then he says, if you really get them, guess what? They're not even a burden. These commandments are not burdensome.

[Jason]

Exactly.

[Dan]

So it's super important that you live with purpose and build a legacy. Right. And sometimes that's difficult when you think about how you pass that down to your kids or even who cares for your kids. And in the case of something might happen to you. And I want to tell you about a way that you can do that in a super simple format. It's with trust and will. You can create a plan in as little as 30 minutes to protect the guardianship of your children, your pets, your asset distribution, and your health care directives. Their products are state specific, they're attorney design, and they're customized to your needs. Super easy to use by the way, super user friendly. Trust and Will was created by legal experts and designed to grow with you. So you can easily update your plan that any time, any life stage you're in or any transition. Trust and Will has bank level encryption and secure sharing features so that your most important documents and details can stay protected and accessible. Plus they have an amazing customer support from real people, which is a big deal.

[Zach]

So Zach, you know Lisa and I are excited about this because it's something you kind of. You keep putting off and you really shouldn't. All my years as a pastor and elder, one of the things I noticed about families, when there's loss of life, if there's no Will, there's. There's no trust and it leads to a lot of chaos. So now is the time to do it.

[Dan]

So protect your legacy and your loved ones today, tomorrow and beyond with Trust and Will. The most trusted name and online estate planning. Go to trustandwill.com unashamed and you get 20% off. That's trustandwell.com unashamed to get your 20% off. Trust a n d will.com unashamed.

[Jason]

You know why, Zach? Because you've gone to my fourth point which so let's just review. So you got all these ifs. Well, what if, what if, what if, what if? And so then he says this is how, this is how, this is how, this is how. Well, all those, this is how revolve around number one, this contagion, love idea. Then the last thing is knowing him 25 times. I'm shocked. Over two dozen times it talks about in some capacity, you knowing him. You know this and it leads you to knowing him, a person. And I'll just give you a little sampling of that. So first John 2, 3 through 5. Now by this we know that we know him.

[Zach]

You see that?

[Jason]

First John 2, 13, 14. Remember the little song?

[Zach]

Yep.

[Jason]

What was the song? Which I had missed it in the song before.

[Zach]

I just missed it because you have known him as from the beginning. And he addresses that.

[Jason]

He's saying something because you have known him, who is from the beginning. And he repeats that over and over. First John 3:1, how great is the love. There's that agape that the Father has and look lavished on us that we should be called children of God. And that is what we are. The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. What's the implication? But now we know him because watch where he goes with this. 3, 6. This is just lovely, the way he wrote this. He says no one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. Well, that's a big, big difference. That's why I told you that story. But this girl's been going to church. She's been baptized a couple times. She's looking around, she's like, I don't. My life is not well. The simple answer was, you don't know him.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jason]

Because if, you know. If you knew him, you would know that he's been pursuing you the whole time, and you just been going through the motions, you know, getting the knowledge, participating in all the things that are the result of it, but not him. It has not become personal.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jason]

That's why I think the best advice you give someone is you need to go and read one of the gospels and figure out who Jesus is. Yeah.

[Dan]

Because the. Because the hope here is not. It's not that I get to go to heaven. That's. That's what we've all been doing. Right. We're like, give me the bare minimum of how to get to heaven, and then I can live forever in my own autonomy. But the. But the call is into the participation of the life of Christ. You're actually being. You're entering into his very nature. And, you know, we're doing this Hillsdale course, you know, on Fridays. And I mean, I know it's been deep as we've gotten into CS Lewis, but there's been some stuff in there that's like, man, so meaty. But one of the things that Lewis talked about when he imagined the concept of hell, particularly in this book, the Great Divorce, and he does a story of this guy that all these people that go on, like, a bus trip to heaven from hell. And then the. The experience I have, it's. It's a fictional book, but it. It really draws a lot of beautiful pictures of helping of heaven and some dark pictures of hell that help us understand it. But one of the things he says about hell is he has this idea of, like, the doors locked from the inside.

[Zach]

Yep.

[Dan]

And it's like, that's what it's like here on earth when you're locked into your own hell. It's like you. You're locked into your own way. And. And like, the actual way into life is. Is just open the door and there's like, abundant life, life and life abundantly. The verse you started with, you know, life and life abundantly. Just walk through the Door. But in your own quest for I want to be, I got to be my own boss, gotta be my own. I gotta run my own show. I gotta do my own thing. That you're creating your own hell. And so the, the call of First John is not, guys, you gotta do the right things and make sure you obey all the commandments, all the rules, so that you can get to go and get the prize, which is heaven. That's not the call. The call is, hey, guys, you're believing in a lie. That the very definition, the very definition of that is hell. And God is inviting you into his life, which is pure joy. And that's why these commandments, they're not a burden. These are the descriptions and the, and the instructions of walking in the pathway of joy. That's what they are. It's like me saying, hey, go in the fridge and grab the milk out and go make you a bowl of cereal. I'm not. That's not a commandment for my kid to, like, prove their loyalty to me. I'm actually telling you, if you want to eat, there's the food. So the commandments in the burden, it's just, I'm just giving you instructions. You say you're hungry. I'm saying, oh, go in the pantry or go in the fridge. That's how you should see the commandments of God.

[Zach]

The if is, are you willing to participate in the food that's right there waiting on you?

[Dan]

That's it.

[Zach]

That becomes, if a perfect example of this too, because a lot of people will take, like, obviously the person that sent me that email I mentioned earlier, we'll look at difficulties of life as reason why we can't embrace Christ. But, you know, when you see this the other way, we got a couple of listeners on here, Al and Kim, that are up in the Memphis area, and they're both going through cancer in their lives. And yet they. It's just amazing because we communicate a lot about their attitude about that and how they help people in the midst of that. So they're back and forth to MD Anderson all the time. Time because of their cancer treatments. And recently in our storm, we mentioned about a young man who, who used to be at our church at wfr and, you know, a limb fell on him and broke his back. And so he's. Now he's. He had to go to NB Anderson for therapy to try to, you know, where he can walk again. And so they're going down there. They're going to be down there for several months going through this process to. A lot of people have been praying about it. And so somehow this couple from Tennessee, because they listen to our podcast, had heard about this and reached out to me to connect them to this family because they're like, you know, we go to Houston all the time. We'd like to just pray for them and explain to them how the system works. And I just thought, here's two people going through cancer and because of their love for Christ, and now other people, they're like, give us somebody we can help while we're in the midst of this. And it really moved me and touched me because they're a great couple. They stop by here all the time because we're halfway to. To Houston. And I just thought, that's your love, no matter what you're dealing with on this earth. And things are tough and, man, things are bad. I'm going through something difficult. The love of Christ, now that you have and understand is just another opportunity for you to help somebody else. And when we get that, like this couple got that, and this other family is there, and you see that we're the ones that are bringing joy. To your point, Zach, about difficulties, that's how you can have joy. That's how when James said, count it pure joy. When you go through trials, that's how you do it.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And you can't do it without the relationship.

[Jason]

I mean, it is what comes out relationship over ritual or religion or. That's why he keeps saying, you know him. I mean, when I back up, it made me think of what happened this morning. I'm going to share this. But when he said, if you know in verse. What's that, 29 of chapter two? If you know that he is righteous, well, how are you going to know that he's righteous? Got to get to know him in an intimate way. The more you know him, then you start looking at how he views you. And that's how this works. And of course, then he does all this in the context of saying, and now we're children. And it makes you think of Matthew 18 about, unless you become like children, you'll never understand the kingdom of God. Because it's this childlike father relationship. Because he goes on to chapter three and saying, how great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God, and that is what we are. But it made me think this morning. So we had a little man this morning, and Missy was going to take him to a movie. They're at the movies right now. Some Cartoon that, you know, means nothing to me. He's never been. Been to a movie, and.

[Zach]

Oh, this is his first one.

[Jason]

Yeah, first time. And, I mean, she was looking at the parental guy to make sure that, you know, it's 100%, nothing bad is going to happen. And so she asked him if he wants to go. Well, he exploded, you know, but the reasons he wanted to go was shocking to me because Missy's like, well, I got to go. You know, if you. You know, let me go get ready. You talk to Jay right before he leaves, and he's like. Because she said, I have to go to work. And if you can call this work. But. But when he thinks work, because we just had the ice storm, that's what he's thinking.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jason]

Because he's like, what's Jay Rock doing out there on the roof or with the chainsaw? And she's like, he's working. So anyway, but when he was telling me, I was like, are you excited? And he was like, I'm gonna get to sit by Lulu. But Jay Rock, next time, you can go and sit beside me because I love you. And I thought, he's just looking at the basic, I'm going to get to go sit beside Lulu. We're going to do something. Because he has no concept of what's fixing to happen.

[Zach]

It's your point, really. It's your point you've made in the past that it's not where you're going, it's who you're with.

[Jason]

It's who you're with.

[Zach]

Most of the things that Lisa and I speak at are dealing with the life issue. A lot of pregnancy resource centers, a lot of fundraising. And the reason we do that is because this issue is more than just a political football for us. It's real life. Lisa had an abortion when she was a teenager and had many damaging effects on our lives. So it means a lot to us. There's a woman named Evie. She never imagined that she would become pregnant. Doctors told her it was impossible. So when she found out she was expecting, fear took over, and her first pregnancy ended in abortion. It was a decision that left her carrying a grief no one had prepared her for. Later, Evie reached out for help at a preborn network clinic. She didn't find judgment. She found compassion. She found truth, and she found healing. For the first time in a long time, Evie felt hope. When she became pregnant again, everything was different. She returned to the clinic excited. And when she saw her baby on an ultrasound and she heard that tiny little heartbeat, it Confirmed what she already knew in her heart. Today, Evie's daughter is alive. Her heart beats freely outside the womb because an ultrasound was there at exactly the right moment. One ultrasound is just $28. All gifts are tax deductible, and 100% of your donation goes directly to saving babies. So we're asking you to please join us. To donate securely, dial £250 and say the keyword baby. That's £250, baby. Or go to preborn.comunashamed. that's preborn.comunashamed.

[Jason]

and so I got all like, man, this is the kingdom of God speaking through a four year old this morning. Because all he's concerned about and when he got to the popcorn, he's like, I'm gonna say if I bet popcorn, me and Lulu are gonna eat popcorn and we may share out of the same bag. I'm sorry, J. Rock, that you're not gonna be there. You're gonna miss it. But next time you can go with. He was so worried that I was not gonna be there and I'm missing out cause I can't sit beside him. But next time, look, you can sit beside me.

[Zach]

What he didn't know was you were so glad that she was taking him and you didn't have to go.

[Jason]

Well, I tell you what, I'll be making the next trip. So Missy sent me this. I read this in the parking lot before I walked in. She said, I wish I would have recorded this, but it came so fast. So little man, when I get big, I'm going to be like Jay Rock. And so Missy says, yeah, you can saw down trees and cut firewood and little man, I'm going to have a beard like Jay Rock too. So Missy says, and you can go to work like Jay Rock. He said, I'm scared to go to work. She said, why are you scared? Because jayrock does hard work. And she's like, well, I mean, but at some point you're going to have to, you know, go with him and do this. And he said, I probably will because Jay Rock is my hero. And Lulu, you're my best friend.

[Dan]

I mean, this kid, he's quite the charmer.

[Jason]

And well. But you know why it. It hit me that he's looking at everything through a relationship standpoint. At some point we get older and we become independent and we start missing the things that matter, which is you're knowing God in an intimate way and knowing people and having that love be the connective tissue. I'm like, this is a sermon from a four year old and he's not even thinking he's preaching the sermon. Everything goes back to the relationships, especially the ones that are showing love.

[Zach]

Which is why the last two podcasts we've been talking about the simplicity of authenticity and how that relays in everyday life. And that's why you do see it through a four year old. It's the simplicity of understanding life that way and understanding God that way, instead of getting into the minutia that becomes this negative religious experience that people go through all the time. And it's such a shame because you can even see it what's happening, because against the backdrop of all these things you're talking about, Jason, all these Greek phrases here, it came down to a simple thing. People were trying to lead people astray here in the first century from the simplicity that Jesus really did come and he really was a man. I mean, that's the backdrop behind this whole book.

[Dan]

If you think about that girl's question though, and I love these airport conversations, by the way, because it's like this is real world. This is where we're at. This is where people are interacting in the marketplace. I thought, man, as we sitting there talk about, we're talking about this, we're telling you or we're not. John is telling us that. How we really know if we love God is just two simple things. Do we believe in Jesus Christ, his son, and do we love one another? Well, then you come into the question of what if I don't, but I want to.

[Jason]

Well, there's obviously you're going through the formula that John created. Well, what if. Well, this is how. And then you're going to see love and a really intimate relationship.

[Dan]

But I wanted to give hope for anyone who's listening. And I'm going to give you this verse out of, out of Romans 4. But basically I want to give you hope. If you're in this position where you're like, man, right now, I don't. I'm not living for God. I want to. So you would have maybe what's called a latent desire. And that's a desire that's underneath your desire. I don't want God, but I want to want God and man. Like this girl that came up to you, she clearly wanted to want him. She wanted the fruit of the spirit. She just didn't have it in her life because she wasn't walking with him. So what do I do? You say, well, just believe in Christ. Well, man, that's the problem. I kind of don't I want to believe in Christ, but man, I've got all these doubts. I can't really trust him. How do I know he's real? All the just, just go down the list. And that's not a switch you can turn on. And that's not the point. And so I think Romans 4 gives us a really, really tangible expression of what exactly are you supposed to do to move into that kind of relationship with God? And it's a whole lot like you would with any relationship. It's a process and it's time. So listen to how Paul frames it up in Romans 4 when he. He basically gives us a picture of the father of all faith, which is Abraham. And the story of Abraham just goes throughout the whole scripture, right? That he was told he was going to have all these grandkids and God said, and you're going to have them through this guy Isaac. And when he told him that at first they were so old that they couldn't even have kids. And it's like unbelievable promise. And Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness. And even whenever God said sacrifice Isaac, Abraham still believed God. He still believed in the promise and the provision of God did not understand how God was going to do it, but he did believe him. He said, man, how do I get that kind of faith? I want the kind of faith that Abraham had. And Romans 4 gives us this little nugget and this. I'm reading it from the esv, it said that no belief made him waver concerning the promise of God. How. But he grew strong in his faith. So the process of growing strong in your faith. Faith is a process. It wasn't just already matured in a moment, it grew. So faith is something that can go stronger. What is faith? Your trust in God, your trust in his promises. You're leaning on him for your understanding that grows as you spend time with him, because this is what the Word says. But his faith grew strong. He grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God. So what do I do in a moment where I don't feel it? Well, that's when you start the rhythms of giving glory to God in your life. You start the rhythms of prayer, you start the rhythms of reading His Word. You start serving people. You just start doing the things that God's called us to do and give him glory and thank him for it. And what you'll find every single time that you live in that kind of way is it your faith will actually increase and then your, your heart will Catch up with what your body is doing. And so I love that prescription that we get in Romans 4. You don't have to sit in that brokenness. You don't have to sit in that despair.

[Zach]

Well, and it's a bittersweet moment. Isn't that what C.S. lewis called it, Zach? He said the reason it's hard is because to be born new, something has to die that was old. And so remember the lizard on the shoulder of the guy, the lust? And the idea is you want to give it up. And that latent desire you talked about? But it's hard because something has to die for that to happen, for God to get that glory, you've got to give up yourself. And I think that's a. That's a. Lewis called it a bittersweet moment because we have to walk away from something, to walk to something.

[Dan]

And it may mean. It may mean you have to die to yourself and be born again. You may be.

[Jason]

Yeah. I want to finish this just to put a bow about this, about the knowing, because what you'll find is we come to know.

[Zach]

60 seconds.

[Jason]

We come to know Christ in an intimate way. We come to know the Father in the intimate way, and we come to know the Holy Spirit in an intimate way. Even though the NIV missed this translation. But I want to read First John 3. 24, where it says, those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us. We know it by the Spirit he gave us. But then in verse two of chapter four, it says, this is how you can know. Even though the NIV translated that recognized same word. No. The Spirit of God. You can know the Spirit of God, you can know the Father. And the last one I want to read is the last verse next to the last verse, 1 John 5, 20. We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true, even in His Son, Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. And if you read that three times, you're going to say, is he talking about the Father or the Son? We know. And the answer is exactly

[Zach]

yes. The answer is yes.

[Jason]

So there's your formula. You got the ifs of life and the ifs of the Christian life. You got this is how. And you have the love that connects us to God. And it's his love, but it's in action in our lives. And then you realize, I'm getting to know the creator of the universe in his diversity and in his complexity, in an intimate way in my life.

[Zach]

So my earworm to leave with you is this is how we do it.

[Jason]

This is how we do it.

[Zach]

Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast and don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.