Ep 1283 | The Robertsons Expose the Dark Side of Success That Few People Talk About

Summary

Unashamed with the Robertson Family

Episode 1283 | The Robertsons Expose the Dark Side of Success That Few People Talk About
Date: March 5, 2026

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Overview

In this episode, Phil, Al, Jase, and Zach dive into a candid discussion on the often-overlooked dangers of success, with a special focus on jealousy, pride, and the biblical call to true love and humility. Drawing from their own experiences, as well as scriptural insights from First John and Genesis, the Robertsons explore how the dark sides of achievement—envy, selfish ambition, broken relationships—manifest in families, churches, and broader culture. At the heart of their message: only the sacrificial, action-filled love modeled by Christ can break these destructive cycles.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Everyday Stories: From Microwaves to Birdwatching

• Opening Banter:

  • Al recounts an amusing encounter with an employee watching her food in the microwave ("A watched microwave will not produce hot food") [00:06].
  • Jase connects this to spiritual matters: "There were some spiritual applications there, Al. We have the Holy Spirit inside out." [01:36]
  • Family humor about oversharing personal stories and how "what you tell me not to say, is the first thing I want to say" [02:06].

• Miss Kay's Birdwatching:

  • Jase describes visiting his mom, who finds watching over 100 birds "memorizing" (mispronouncing 'mesmerizing') and enforces a strict 'no shooting' policy on the birds she feeds [03:32].
  • Humorous reflections on how generational quirks and language evolve in the family.

Duck Sausage & Family Dynamics

• Experimenting with Duck Sausage:

  • Al praises Jay Stone's innovative duck sausage, complete with onion, bell pepper, two cheeses, and jalapeno. Jase jokes about using a metal detector to find stray shot in the sausage [05:11].
  • Jase admits ducks aren't his favorite to eat; their unique "mustiness" isn't for everyone [06:27].
  • Lighthearted teasing about Zach's duck-hunting prowess and rites of passage within the family [07:21].

• Parenting Lessons:

  • Jase shares lessons learned transitioning into a grandparent-like role—trying to influence behavior with patience and honor instead of discipline ("You need to trust me. ... This is the right way to do things.") [14:07].
  • Al reflects on patience and spiritual leadership, drawing parallels with Moses and personal marriage experiences—sometimes you have to let your spouse or child "get there on their own" [15:26].

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The Spiritual Meat: Jealousy, Love, and the Cain-Abel Paradigm

1. The Cost of Broken Relationships

• Reading from 1 John 3:11 – the command to "love one another," referencing the story of Cain and Abel ("Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother") [19:40].
• Al highlights: "There's a heart behind a sacrifice or an action, and that's what God's interested in." [26:24]
• Zach identifies jealousy as "probably one of the most hidden sins in all of humanity," rarely confessed but deeply destructive [29:40].

  "I've never heard someone say, I'm really struggling with jealousy." — Zach [30:05]

2. The Root of Jealousy and Its Destructive Power

• Al: "Jealousy usually comes out of success... it's so destructive, it just breaks your heart." [32:23]

• Jase reads from James 3:13-16:

  "Where you have envy and selfish ambition or jealousy envy, there you find disorder and every evil practice." [33:53]

• The group discusses how jealousy is generational, using Cain's lineage as an example of escalating dysfunction [30:07].

3. The Antidote: Sacrificial Love

• Al: "Jesus Christ laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers." (1 John 3:16) [39:08]
• Zach draws a contrast between Abel’s blood (cries for justice) and Christ’s blood (cries for mercy):

  "The blood of Abel cries out, justice. ... The blood of Christ cries out, mercy. Forgive them." [28:57]

• Jase: "How can the love of God be in him?" – challenging listeners to reflect on practical compassion [38:57].

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Hidden Jealousy:

  "I've really struggled with jealousy... secretly wanting someone's failure. Not even because they did anything wrong, maybe quite the opposite because they did it right."
  — Zach [31:17]

• On Confession & Healing:

  "When you speak that out... James says that you'll be healed. And we've found progressive healing from that."
  — Zach [31:35]

• On Pride and Envy:

  "Jealousy is just the offspring of pride, because pride is the problem..."
  — Jase [32:57]

• On the Purpose of Rules:

  "It's way more time consuming to let that play out, which I didn't have the time with my kids. If I could go back, I would have done a lot of things differently."
  — Jase [15:10]

• On the Cost of Sin:

  "You don't always murder a person by killing them. A lot of times you murder them by cutting them out of your life. And it's the same thing."
  — Al [37:01]

• On Walking the Walk:

  "The more I read First John, the more God seems real. Like he's not messing around here... there needs to be some conviction with the way you live your life."
  — Jase [39:07]

• On the Breadth of God’s Grace:

  "Three of the major characters in the whole biblical narrative were people who committed murder... When your heroes are people that have done exactly what he's warning you not to do... that's gotta be something bigger than just you."
  — Al [50:38]

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Scriptural Deep Dives & Biblical Context

• 1 John 3:11-24: The call to love one another, illustrated through Cain and Abel; the dangers of hate, pride, and the lack of compassion [19:40, 39:08].
• Genesis 4: Recounting Cain's murder of Abel and its multigenerational ripple effects [25:55].
• Matthew 23:33: Jesus addresses the religious leaders’ hypocrisy and references righteous Abel [23:56].
• Hebrews 11:4 & 12:24: The “better word” spoken by Christ’s blood compared to Abel’s [24:13, 28:57].
• James 3:13-16 & Proverbs 6:16-19: Wisdom, pride, disorder, and the seven things the Lord detests—all linked to relational discord [33:53, 35:43].
• Exodus 32: Parallels to Moses’ leadership, patience, and God’s desire for His people to arrive at truth "on their own" [15:26].

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Noteworthy Stories & Testimonies

• Marriage Testimony:
  Al recounts a powerful marriage testimony from a couple at a retreat, showing that even those with the darkest pasts can fully transform due to Christ’s mercy ("who says that out loud? 'I was a groomer of women.'") [45:31].

  "When I heard them tell that story... it was so Revelation 12:11." — Al [47:40]

• The discussion on forgiveness vs. cancel culture:

  "The blood of Jesus says forgive. ... Cancel culture says 'avenge me', but mercy says 'forgive.'"
  — Zach [48:32]

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Deep Insights on Success and Spiritual Scarcity

• Scarcity Mindset:
  Zach critiques the cultural tendency to see resources as finite and to "hoard the pie"—contrasting this with the biblical command to expand and share ("expand the garden") [51:27].

• On God’s Provision:
  "The presence of God in our lives is an infinite well of everything we’ll ever need."
  — Al [54:55]

• Living Sacrificially:
  "He’s contrasting the anger that it takes to take a life versus giving up your life… that's what's being highlighted."
  — Jase [55:06]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |-----------|:-------------| | 00:06–04:22 | Opening stories: microwaves, birdwatching, family quirks | | 04:30–08:18 | Duck sausage, hunting, and rites of manhood | | 12:19–16:46 | Parenting, grandparenting, and lessons in grace | | 16:46–19:40 | The drift toward patient, action-based love | | 19:40–29:40 | 1 John 3:11 & Cain/Abel: jealousy, murder, the heart of sacrifice | | 29:40–36:54 | Generational effects of jealousy/pride; James & Proverbs readings | | 36:56–43:32 | Love in action, hypocrisy, the mirror of First John | | 43:32–47:40 | Fellowship, messy ministry, Paul’s witness | | 47:40–51:27 | Testimonies of transformation, forgiveness vs. vengeance | | 51:27–54:55 | Success, scarcity, and God’s infinite provision | | 54:55–end | Final wrap: sacrificial love vs. anger; culture of death |

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Tone & Style

The conversation between the Robertsons is warm, playful, and unfiltered, alternating between deep biblical exposition and practical, down-to-earth wisdom. The tone remains candid and relatable, peppered with southern humor and stories from real life. Direct quotations and scriptural references are frequent; the group isn’t afraid to tackle uncomfortable topics head-on.

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Conclusion

This episode is a heartfelt, honest examination of the roots and remedies for envy, pride, and the hazards of worldly success. Through biblical teaching, family stories, and personal confessions, the Robertsons call listeners to confront their own struggles with jealousy and selfishness—and to lay hold of the radical, sacrificial love modeled by Christ. Their core message: true success is found in humility and loving others, not in competition or accumulation.

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Memorable Quote:

"The blood of Abel cries out, justice. ... The blood of Christ cries out, mercy. Forgive them."
— Zach Dasher [28:57]

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Transcript

[Jase Robertson]

I am unashamed.

[Zach Dasher]

What about you?

[Al Robertson]

Welcome back to Unashamed. We often say this, but we obviously record a couple episodes when we get together. So we just finished the last episode, and we all have to take a little nature call breaks. Jace went into that quite vividly on the last podcast of what happens when you're in the middle of a field. But there was a girl standing down there. Jace, there's a lot of young girls that work. I'm assuming they work for Sadie, but I don't know. Maddie, did you know that person standing at the microwave? I didn't either. So she's standing there, and she's just looking. She's got some food in the microwave, and she's just standing there just, you know, looking at it. And so I walked by her, and she didn't even look up. And so I said, you know that a watch microwave will not produce hot food.

[Jase Robertson]

A watch.

[Al Robertson]

A watched microwave. Oh, a watched watched. And it's a. It's a play off the old saying, a watch pot never boils. Remember that when you stand there and watch a pot never boil.

[Jase Robertson]

This is the first I've heard of this.

[Al Robertson]

So I said, have you ever heard of that? The original saying is, a watch pot never boils. And she said, no, I've never heard of that. And I. And I said, but you're standing there looking at the microwave. And she said, it's mesmerizing.

[Jase Robertson]

Oh.

[Al Robertson]

And I said, yeah, I guess you're right. I said, you know, you're watching it, and it's literally heating your food from the inside out. I said, how does that work? She said, I don't know, but I can't look away. So then I just left it at that. And then when I left, she never said that.

[Jase Robertson]

There were some spiritual applications there, Al. We have the Holy Spirit inside out.

[Al Robertson]

Maybe because you look at microwave quartz. I never like to stand in front of one because that thing's like radiation.

[Jase Robertson]

This is so funny that I was having this conversation with Missy yesterday. The things I've been sharing. Because, look, every time I told her the story about running across the field yesterday, you know what her response was?

[Al Robertson]

Don't tell that on the podcast.

[Jase Robertson]

Yes, do not tell that on the podcast.

[Al Robertson]

Zach, does this sound familiar? About the last thing you tell somebody is, don't say that.

[Zach Dasher]

Oh, I know. Yeah, I know where you got it from.

[Jase Robertson]

We got off the plane. Remember the pr a couple of podcasts ago, when I told about the woman who had an odor problem? I was not making fun of the woman at all. I was just saying it was kind of weird that I think she was riding in first class. So you're thinking, it's not that she doesn't have the money to buy deodorant, she's just chosen not to wear it to the suffering of all others. And we get off that plane, and I'm like, whoa, boy, I'm glad that's over. And she said, do not share that on the podcast.

[Zach Dasher]

What did you do the very next day?

[Al Robertson]

I didn't mean to.

[Jase Robertson]

You brought it up as a sign. But what I was going to say is, yesterday I'm having conversations.

[Al Robertson]

Well, you realize by telling me this, the first thing I'm going to do is ask her about these stories.

[Jase Robertson]

No, she won't know. Look, don't do it, Al. It's going to be bad for you.

[Al Robertson]

I'm telling you, I'm like you. Once you tell me I can't do it, then I'm like, I got to do it. I got to hear what she said.

[Jase Robertson]

I went and visited mom, and so I walked in the door, you know, I figured, she's sitting there watching tv. What else she going to be doing? Nope. She wasn't there. And she. She saw me, and she's like, oh, you're just the guy I was looking for. Come watch these birds. And I'm like, what?

[Al Robertson]

She loves that back window at her house.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. And she sits there, and they have put all these feeders out there. And look, Al, there were over 100 birds.

[Al Robertson]

I've seen it. It's a. It's a happening. I've never seen such a diverse group of birds in one setting, is what

[Jase Robertson]

she has with her. And I said, do you realize there are six doves there? And she said, if you shoot one of those doves, I'm going to be angry because she already knew where I was going with it. I was like, oh, it looks like supper. She's like, no. Once they enter the bird feeding realm, they're safe because I want to watch them. But she said the same thing. I was like, what, do you do this all day? And she said, it's mesmerizing. She actually mispronounced me mesmerize.

[Al Robertson]

But that's a tough one. Such a mom thing to do.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. She said, it's memorizing. And I said, I think that's mesmerizing. She's like, same thing.

[Al Robertson]

I guess when you're mesmerized, you could memorize. It's funny, Jess, you brought this up because I meant to tell you that I have been enjoying the fruits of your last two or three weeks of duck season. When it was salvaged by the rally of the. The ice apocalypse that then brought you guys to killing a lot of ducks. All these full limits. Because Jay Stone did something he's never done before. He took a lot of those ducks and turned them into duck sausage. Oh, I look when it's some of the finest thing I have ever eaten.

[Jase Robertson]

When he. I'm going to be honest here, and I'm a duck hunter.

[Al Robertson]

You do get a tungsten every once in a while, you know.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, but look, I told him, you can use my metal detector, my pinpointer. There's a device that's used in treasure hunting. And I'm like, why wouldn't that work? Now? You'd have to clean it up because you usually use it in the dirt. You want to be getting dirt all over your sausage. But I'm like, wouldn't that. Couldn't you take the sausage before you prepare it and just run that pinpointer over it now? You couldn't do it. Like, if they're in a pan. Obviously, I'm stating the obvious because it's like, oh, there's shot all in these sausage. But it'd be a great Duck Dynasty episode if we were still doing that.

[Al Robertson]

To double up. That's right. To take the treasure hunting apparatus and apply it to your duck sausage. But look, he does it with the mix of it. Had it had some onion in it and bell pepper and then two different kind of cheeses. But I was just.

[Jase Robertson]

I think there's some jalapenos in it,

[Al Robertson]

a little bit of jalapeno, and has a little bit of heat to it. But, man, it is. It is good. In fact, I think I like it more than deer sauces, which I didn't think was possible.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, I see. I don't like doing. Doing that with deer. But they're doing it because they're shooting deer, right. That are so big and these big old bucks. And then they're aging it, and it's

[Al Robertson]

about the only way you can eat it.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, right. And ducks are not. What I was going to declare is they're not very good to eat as far as when you, you know, you have a filet mignon.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah, it.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, you know, ducks have a mustiness. My dad used to say, there's a mustiness in there. He likes the mustiness. But me not so much. So I thought, I think you should try this sausage.

[Al Robertson]

Well, it was a brilliant plan because it is delicious and it fits my PhD diet.

[Jase Robertson]

So I hadn't even tried it yet.

[Al Robertson]

Oh. So the flavor is fantastic. Even Anna, who's, you know, kind of like most of our women when it comes to wild game, I mean, they're kind of, you know, like, they're. They're not crazy about it. And. But she was like that, this is better than the deer sausages. I was like, really? And yeah. And when. When she gave it the endorsement, I

[Zach Dasher]

was like, okay, it's got to be good curiosity there.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah. You got to try it, Zach, next time you come down. And it was, I guess you protect. I probably ate some of the ducks that you killed as well.

[Jase Robertson]

I know he shot one mallard Drake. I saw it, and that's all I needed to see.

[Al Robertson]

That may have been the.

[Jase Robertson]

I moved you substantially higher on the list. After seeing that, he said, he act

[Zach Dasher]

like I'd never been duck hunting. This is what he says after I killed the duck. His first duck that came in. But I will add, he goes, well, I'll be. Zach Dasher shot that duck today. You have become a man.

[Al Robertson]

How old are you, Zach? 48.

[Zach Dasher]

That's a 48.

[Jase Robertson]

Sometimes it takes a bit. It takes a bit.

[Al Robertson]

You arrived.

[Zach Dasher]

My son's looking at me like, you gonna let him talk to you like that? I'm like, this is every day, Bear.

[Al Robertson]

This is.

[Zach Dasher]

This is an exercise.

[Al Robertson]

Did you tell Bear? Welcome to the unashamed podcast.

[Zach Dasher]

Oh, Bear and Jace hit it off. I mean, they were like. I mean, he's like, oh, I love Jace. I mean, he really spoke in.

[Jase Robertson]

What does that tell you? Out of the. Out of the mouth of Bates. Wisdom happens. I'm like that. I learned a lot. I mean, look, I'm running around chasing a 4 year old. I had him this morning. But, you know, I learned a lot from this kid. And it's just. I think if I had a do over, you know, if you ever been like that, you're like, man, I get

[Al Robertson]

to do it with. Just like you're doing with your grandkids. It's such a different thing. Last night, Sage had a project. She goes to a Christian school here, and she had a project to. I can't remember what the setup. Do your own podcast is what they're trying to get them to do, like a five minute podcast. And she decided to do one on dad becoming a Christian and how he got on a podcast. And so that was her podcast. So Lisa films it on the. On the iPhone, and Sage is Asking me the questions. And so I'm the guest on her podcast. It was really interesting because it's kind of how the young people, they now they see the Internet without. Especially with all these stupid little videos, but they see it as an opportunity to get. Express themselves. So I was glad it was being done in a spiritual format, you know.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Al Robertson]

And so she asked me about dad, and, you know, I talked a little bit. I would answer questions. And how did he. How did he get on the podcast? I said, well, he said he wanted to get out there in computer land, is the way he viewed it, he said, because he knew if the apostle Paul had access to the Internet, he'd be preaching the gospel. So, you know, I went through the little thing with her, but then she. Then she went back in the closet. It's funny. So she does the thing there, but she goes back in the closet on her own with the camera and films her own little intro of the podcast. You know, you see all the clothes back behind her, and she's like, you know, I'm about to do my podcast. And so it was. Was her cold open, was back in the closet, and she comes out and we. And then she, you know, puts it all together on the thing, which is amazing because, like, you know, Maddie and all the people here, Swiss army knife and the other ones, they do all the stuff like that. I couldn't. I don't even know how to. Could you do any of the. What's done to put us on the Internet? Would you know anything about that?

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, yeah. I'd call somebody. Getting it done.

[Zach Dasher]

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[Jase Robertson]

Missy and I have had a few pretty heated discussions over this, because I'll say she'll ask me to do something. Well, I'll call somebody. And she's like, well, I could have done that. I was like, but you didn't. You asked me. So I called somebody that I handled it. That is handling.

[Al Robertson]

That's right.

[Jase Robertson]

You delegate. But I was talking about little man. Yeah. I'm in a strange situation because I'm kind of like a grandparent role. And so, you know, with my kids, and I've learned a lot. I don't know why Zach's saying this about his son. You know, it just. It's made me think about this because it's a weird role in that. I mean, I didn't give birth to this kid. I mean, it's kind of a weird circumstance where I find myself, and so I'm like, well, I'm never gonna, like, do what I did with my kids, like, whoop his butt or anything like that. Well, it's very hard to get him.

[Al Robertson]

It didn't belong to you. But in a way, Jase, it's almost like from the last podcast, in my mind, he's almost like a Moses delivered to you guys. He's been a part of y' all his life.

[Jase Robertson]

So what I found very difficult is to train up a kid, like, in our limited role without that being a weapon. So it's like, well, it takes a lot longer.

[Al Robertson]

Maybe a tool is a better word than a weapon.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, and I was against that as being a kid because, remember, we got whipped by grandparents, aunts, uncles, and I

[Al Robertson]

was like, everybody within reach of a belt or whatever.

[Jase Robertson]

And I was like, they just. They Wanted to fast forward the time because it takes way more time. Even this morning, I'm like, we took. I took him to a little playground, but he was making a mess. He had a water bottle, and he drank it and just threw it on the ground. You know, I'm just watching this, and I'm like, you know, we don't do this because I was on Willie's property as a little kid playground. And so when it got time to go, I was like, you need to pick up all that stuff that you've thrown in every direction. We got to leave it like we had it. I'm teaching him honor and respect, and. Well, he was looking at me, and I thought, oh, you're gonna do it? We'll sit here as long as it takes. I was like, but you need to trust me. This is. This is the right way to do things, you know? And so I just thought, all right, 1001, 1000, 2003. And he. Here, he went, you know, And I thought, okay. And so I think it made me think of what we've been studying. This power in kids, of wanting you to be pleased with them is a powerful tool.

[Al Robertson]

Oh, yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

And you being disappointed, and it just. It's way more time consuming to let that play out, which I didn't have the time with my kids. I'm not making excuses. If I could go back, I would. I would have done a lot of things differently.

[Al Robertson]

Well, that's the pressure of it. I mean, we're all still busy and working, but. But it's something about it. When you're younger, doing that with your kids, you're so focused on trying to build something that. A structure that they can be safe in and they can be provided for that. You do miss those patient moments sometimes of building something, which is interesting. The whole picture that you read from Exodus 32 to me is that moment God has with Moses. He goes through that. I think he went through that whole process to teach him something. But think about the patience that takes to do that, you know? And I told you. I told you when we ended the podcast. I didn't mention the podcast, but recently, Lisa and I were kind of had differing ways of doing something. And I knew I was right, but I wanted her to think it was right because she got there on her own, not just because I said, this is what we got to do. And so I was just patient. I let. A couple of months went by, and finally one day she wakes up, and she totally agreed with my side, but she got there on her Own. And even though we're a husband and wife and we're equal at the same time, I knew she would own our decision better if she got there on her own. Oh yeah. And so I think that's exactly what the picture you see there. That's what we do. But now you can do that more with your grandkids. It's like you're willing to take that time to get there.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. It made me think of this passage. I know we're not here yet, but in First John 3, where it says 3:18 Dear children, children, let us not love with words or tongue, but with actions and in truth.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

And you know me, my first trip around parenthood was a lot of I tell you what, you know, it's just that cuz al you know how we were raised and you tend to just be victims of what you were raised in. I mean, my dad would put the fear of the Lord in you and then he would back it up with the right hand.

[Al Robertson]

We were not only afraid of disappointing him, we were more afraid of angering him. And he didn't get angry at that altar. What he did. It was a happening.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. And even reading that in Exodus that we did last time and looking at what the definition of love, love's not easily angered. And if I could go back, I wouldn't have been able to say that to my dad. But boy, I was think.

[Al Robertson]

Which is why dad went through the same metamorphosis we did. And to get to watch him later in life become that patient person. And I probably saw it the most. I mean, he was like that with Jeff, but he was the most like that probably with Phyllis because she was kind of the last entry point into his life. But just watching him the way he did it made me respect him even more that he grew to that.

[Jase Robertson]

Look, this is a process. I mean, we're dealing with some difficult things in First John about this connection and relationship. And it is a.

[Al Robertson]

And we've said this from the beginning, but I want to say it again here because this passage we're going to get into today, that I think the metamorphosis of John the disciple, the young guy, he wouldn't even refer to himself. I mean he was like third person reference when he wrote the book of John. He's the young guy, he was obviously the youngest of all of them to now Elder John, who's an older man who's lived through a bunch of stuff and watched the first century church, he watched the destruction of Jerusalem. To see him write this Letter as an elder and an older man, I think that's why he keeps doing this circular logic to keep coming back to it, because he's trying to teach them. That's why he keeps saying dear children. Dear children or fathers, young son. He keeps. He's like, he's a teacher here, whereas early he was just a witness. He still got the witness at the beginning. But I like his style. You can tell it's written by an older man. So let me read this passage kind of where we're 2 in 3, 11, because we've been doing a lot of rabbit holes, but they all set up

[Jase Robertson]

this part, even though we're not going verse by verse, if you haven't noticed, because he's saying the same thing.

[Al Robertson]

We're trying to talk about this like he wrote it, which is a circular way of coming back to the same theme over and over and over. So he says, this is the message you heard from the beginning. Now, what does that sound like, Jessica? Verse 11.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, verse 11.

[Al Robertson]

This is the message you heard from the beginning. Well, now he's going to. He's resetting right back to where he started in the first four verses. Remember, he said, this is what you've heard from the beginning when he started out. So now he's going to refer back to that. And now he's going to bring in we should love one another. So before he was talking about the faith and the life aspect. Now it's the. This is how we should act and

[Jase Robertson]

the light aspect of what it means to be living just with God being real.

[Al Robertson]

Because he just had a whole section about sin that we talked about, the sin is lost and all that. So he's going to come right back to love. This is the fruit of it. And then you know it's the beginning because you say, what is the beginning? He's going all the way back because his illustration he uses is Cain. So we're talking garden. We're literally talking the beginning. Do not be like Cain, the brother of Abel, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. So John gives some insight because, you know, when you go back and read the text in Genesis, it doesn't seem quite that stark. You know, it's almost like it was just a situation where they disagreed on who had the best sacrifice. But John says, no, the evil one was prompting him. And he says, and why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother's were righteous. Do not be surprised, my brothers, if the world hates you. We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer. That's quite the statement, which sounds a lot like some of Jesus Sermon on the Mount stuff. And you know that no murderer has eternal life in him. Let's just stop there and talk about that for just a minute. Because I wanted to reference this stuff about Cain and Abel, which is very interesting because you see him. Abel's name comes up in some other contexts, which I find interesting. One is Matthew 23, when Jesus is. You remember, Matthew 23 is the one where he's ripping the Pharisees, you brood of vipers, you, you know, you pit of snakes, you know. And he's doing this whole thing because of how they have treated him and how they've been.

[Zach Dasher]

So there's always that one shirt that you keep grabbing because it works for everything. And for me, that's the one I got on right here. It's Poncho shirt. I've actually got about seven of them, but I go back to them over and over again. I usually don't get this excited about shirts, but this one has earned its praise. You guys, y' all got your ponchos on too?

[Al Robertson]

We do, Zach. And they're super comfy.

[Jase Robertson]

What hits you is we've come a long way in the making of clothes since I was a kid. Remember those hand me down white T shirts we used to wear?

[Al Robertson]

They were stained. Yep.

[Zach Dasher]

These ain't no hand me downs here. These are the real deal Poncho flannels. The reason why I love them, because they're. They're not bulky or stiff. They're really soft. They got just enough stretch so that you can move in them. They also have hidden features that are very useful, like zip pockets on the bottom here. They got a little lens cloth for my glasses, which might always get, you know, fudged up. And they have SPF 50 built in. So these shirts that you could wear outside working or you can wear them out to dinner because they're super nice. And Poncho denim shirts are incredible as well. They're also very soft from day one. They have that broken in feel, not like something you have to suffer through to get comfortable. They also got that clean western look that works well for if you want to dress up or dress down. Poncho also offers free shipping, free returns, easy exchanges, and they stand behind their product and they want to be your go to as well. So go to ponchooutdoors.com Unashamed and enter your email for $10 off your first order. That's P O N C H O outdoors.com Unashamed for $10 off in free shipping. And when they ask you how you heard about them, let them know Unashamed sent you.

[Al Robertson]

He says something interesting in there about Abel. And I want to mention this. Let's see, Matthew 23:33. He says, you snakes, you brood of vipers, how will you escape being condemned to hell? Therefore, I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify. So he's given the picture of the history of how they've treated the prophets and the people God has sent to the people. Others you will flog in your synagogue and pursue from town to town. And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on the earth from the blood of righteous Abel. So he goes all the way back to Abel, to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berkhiah, whom you murder between the temple and the altar. I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation. And when we studied Matthew, we talked about that being, we think, the destruction of Jerusalem and the judgment that came as a result of that. But the Hebrew writer also mentions the blood of abel in Hebrews 11:4, when he mentions him. And then also in Hebrews 12:24, when he's given that picture of the kingdom of God. And he says that but the blood of Jesus is even better than the blood, the righteous blood of Abel. He says to Jesus, the mediator of A New Covenant, 1224. And to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel. So I do find it interesting that John brings out the Cain side of the equation, but then other people talked about the Abel side, which was blood that was shed innocently.

[Jase Robertson]

And it was shed innocent. Innocently. And when you read the story in Genesis 4 and verse 10, it says, the Lord said, this is after the act was committed. He said, what have you done? Listen, your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

Which. What a picture. Which is why I think John, when he gets to chapter five, he's going to use these life sources as an illustration. He uses blood, water, and the Spirit. And all these things represent life. The spirit gives life. Where there's no water, there's no life. And blood is like the life source of humans.

[Al Robertson]

Right, Right. And so I do find it interesting that he makes the comparison here of those two. And it also Shows you something else we talked about in the briefly in the last podcast. Two things, I think. One is there's a heart behind a sacrifice or an action, and that's what God's interested in. I mean, Abel, what made him righteous was that not. He was perfect. He was a man just like Cain was. And now they're the result of their own parents sin and what that's unleashed on the world. But his heart was right. His sacrifice to God was the right heart. That's what God was looking for. Cain's was not. And then second thing is, I think it shows you the power of jealousy and envy. I think that's two of the greatest motivators for sin. I mean, the evil one. And I think the reason why it's so rampant, because, you know, Jesus said he was a murderer himself from the beginning, is because when you have jealousy and envy of other people, maybe it's within your family, maybe it's other people's possessions. Whatever the case is, if you struggle with that particular sin, it will always lead to something bad. It either leads to anger, as in the case of Cain, where you get so angry with somebody that you can murder somebody. I mean, literally take them out. Or what I see more often is bitter, the bitter envy that the Bible talks about quite a bit that you get where you just can't accept anything good because that guy doesn't deserve that or whatever.

[Zach Dasher]

And you root for their failure.

[Al Robertson]

Yes.

[Zach Dasher]

You actually root for the people that you once loved. You actually root for their failure. And in this case, it was. They were brothers. I mean, think about that. They are two brothers that I'm sure their relationship. They probably played games together as kids and they grew up together. But Abel offers this wonderful, beautiful sacrifice to the Lord and it grew that bitter root in his heart. And it's so interesting that if you think about, like when he killed Abel and Abel's blood spills to the ground, and then as Jase mentioned that that blood cried out a particular action that it wanted to happen. And the action was. It was justice. Like, avenge me. That was the cry of Abel's blood. So when you get to the Hebrew text, you actually see something completely different. It says, the blood of Jesus Christ. What was the phrase again? It speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah, it enters the sprinkle of blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

[Zach Dasher]

So the blood of Abel cries out, justice. Avenge me. The blood of Christ cries out, mercy. Forgive them. I mean, think about the context of that, of what he's saying there in Hebrews. And so you actually see that loop play out as we are redeemed by Christ and then we allow the Holy Spirit to sanctify us. We can actually be released from all of those jealousies and all of those things that would set us up against the people that. That God created us to love our brother and our sister. Right. And so what I think is probably one of the most hidden sins in all of humanity is that sin of jealousy. Because it's not something you just admit. Right. And to admit people say, man, I struggle with porn. And everybody's kind of like, okay, yeah, I get it. That's a problem nowadays, man, I struggle with lust. Okay. I get. Man, I'm really struggling with, you know, I'm working all the time, and I just. I want security and I'm not relying on God. Okay, Man, I really talk bad about you. I'm sorry, but for somebody. I've never heard someone say, I'm really struggling with jealousy.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah, I don't.

[Zach Dasher]

You never hear it.

[Al Robertson]

No, you don't. And yet it's so destructive and also generational. You go back and you read from Cain forward. There's a couple of chapters there where it talks about their lineages of the different sons. It was really interesting because when you look at Cain's lineage and you watch and see some of the things that are said about the next generation, the one after him, Lamech and others, it's all bad. I mean, the first time you see somebody with two wives, it's out of Cain's lineage. The first time the guy says, if Cain is avenged one time, I'll be avenged seven, I'm going to kill seven times as many as he did. And it led to this place, this precipice that was so bad that God said in Genesis 6, I wish hadn't even made them. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's the progression.

[Zach Dasher]

Well, because it gets to be every man for himself. When you give in to the sin of jealousy, what ends up happening is you start to view the world through a skeptical lens, and everybody is a threat. Everybody's out to get you. You can't actually collaborate. You can't actually. But you read the cultural mandate in Genesis 1:28. And God's intention for humanity is not that we would actually be jealous of one another and compete over the resources. It's actually that we would collaborate and expand the resources.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

It's to cultivate the Earth. And so I've really. I mean, look, I've Struggled with jealousy. I. I've struggled with secretly wanting someone's failure. Not even because they did anything wrong. Maybe quite the opposite because they did it right.

[Al Robertson]

And I felt like, man, somebody needs to put them in their place, right?

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah, I'm lacking. And so we've kind of made it a practice in our family because I think we identified this about seven years into marriage that jealousy was just a killer of intimacy. It was a killer of cultivation. It was a killer of any type of life. And so we started to, me and Jill, we do repeatedly confess that when we feel that towards somebody. And it's kind of. It was embarrassing at first, but when you speak that out and you don't have to tell it to everybody, but when you speak that out in confession, James says that you'll be healed. And we found progressive healing from that. And I can tell you everything that I've been able to be a part of creating that was great in the world. It was always in collaboration and partnership with other people, everything.

[Al Robertson]

And it's usually not out of failure. It's kind of the case of Cain and Abel. Jealousy usually comes out of success. In other words, people are jealous of other people's success. I can't tell you how many families through the years of being a pastor for many years were just destroyed because of this concept. Someone had success in a family, some sibling had this rivalry and jealousy and just wedged in between them, between parents. And it's so destructive, it just breaks your heart. And then you see it like it was with Cain. Pass on generation to generation, which is the sad part.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, I think jealousy is just the offspring of pride, because pride is the problem. And it made me think of that before. James said, confess your sins one to another so you'll be healed. He said. We read this often, but in James 3:13, he says, who is wise and understanding among you, let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such wisdom does not come down from heaven, but is earthly, unspiritual of the devil. And then here's the, I mean, just lightning bolt statement for where you have envy and selfish ambition or jealousy envy. There you find disorder and every evil practice.

[Al Robertson]

Wow. Yeah, that says it beautifully.

[Zach Dasher]

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[Al Robertson]

Yeah, Zach, Shopify has been a big part of Duck Commander for years. It powers our store and is, you know, it's one of the reasons why we've had a lot of success.

[Zach Dasher]

Shopify also was our go to for the blind and the unashamed merch that we sold over the years. All the charts and the analytics, they let us know what you guys wanted and it even made our customer service so easy.

[Jase Robertson]

Full transparency. I've owned Shopify shares for years.

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[Jase Robertson]

You know what it made me think of is that verse in Proverbs 6, 16, 19 that says there's seven things that the Lord hates. Says there's six things that are detestable. Seven that the Lord hates.

[Al Robertson]

Seven.

[Jase Robertson]

And when you read these things, haughty eyes or pride, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood. I mean, I just think about the abortion epidemic. How much is that blood crying out?

[Al Robertson]

And now it's exponentially more even with what's happened in our culture. Because now the evil one keeps creating ways to do it. Now it's the abortion pill, which is now done unchecked across. I mean just people can get delivered right to your house.

[Jase Robertson]

4. A heart that devises wicked schemes. 5. Feet that are swift in running to evil. 6. A false witness. 7. Sowing discord among brothers. And I thought, what do all those things have in Common. They all affect other people.

[Al Robertson]

Yep.

[Jase Robertson]

Isn't that something?

[Al Robertson]

It is.

[Jase Robertson]

You would think. Oh, the seven things the Lord hates. It's all relational.

[Al Robertson]

That's right. How you treat someone else, how you view them. And I'm telling you, I know that because we have a big audience, that some of you are sitting out there and you know this is a struggle for you. And I'm just telling you, if you don't. If you don't do what Zach was just describing a minute ago, which James would say later in James 5, have you confess your sin for healing? That's how you get there. Is that. First admit I got a problem with this, and. And heal those damaged relationships. It's not worth it. It's not worth going through life not having this relationship. I mean, the John is very clear about the nature of this thing. When you. When he talks about when you've. And you don't always murder a person by killing them. A lot of times you murder them by cutting them out of your life. And it's the same thing. And so. And then, look, he comes back with his answer. Listen, verse 16. Because you say, well, how do we know. How do we know what this love looks like? Well, he's going to tell you, this is how we know. Verse 16, what love is. And here it is. Here's what we do. Jesus Christ laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. And then he has a very interesting sort of example what that might look like. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need, but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Which is an odd thing that he just stuck in there. Unless you realize that submission and caring about other people leads you to be one who serves and gives. I mean, it just becomes a natural progression.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, I've found it always powerful when a Bible writer asks a question to go ahead and answer it. Yeah, it can't.

[Al Robertson]

That's right. It's like a rhetorical question.

[Jase Robertson]

No, I know, but we don't ever want to answer that question. It's like if anyone has material possession, sees his brother in need, but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? And then we just keep reading, Dear children.

[Zach Dasher]

No, it can't.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, that becomes convicting. Yeah, because you're like, what am I claiming versus what am I doing? How is this real?

[Al Robertson]

That's right.

[Jase Robertson]

And I keep getting back to that. The more I read First John, the more God seems real. Like he's not messing around here. It's like if you go to an assembly once a week and then go out that door and live the exact opposite of his nature, it's not there. It's just not there.

[Al Robertson]

No, you're just going through the motion.

[Jase Robertson]

There needs to be some conviction with the way you live your life.

[Al Robertson]

And again, it's a great point, James, because that goes back to that idea about, remember this started with Cain and Abel over the sacrifice to God. So if you're looking at your spiritual walk with Christ as just the things I do to check a box or a list or whatever, you know, and you never surrender, because when he shows a picture of surrender laid down his life, that's a surrender. But if you. You can go through the motions of all the sacrifices. But remember, David said it's not sacrifices you seek, it's the heart behind the sacrifice that he's seeking. So you can have all the blood of bulls and goats and everything. These guys are without the heart behind it. And you're just going through the motions. And I think you describe a lot of people.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, I think that's why people tend to alienate themselves. I mean, I remember one time I was a brother, he was struggling and he wasn't meeting half the time.

[Zach Dasher]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

And I was like, look, these, these, this is your problem. Because it's usually a pattern when you see somebody, their life, they got some sin in their life, and then you look up and they're not around, they don't meet. But I remember asking this guy, I was like, you're not meeting. These are your friends. And I was thinking, John 15, no greater love than a man lay down his life for his friends. And he's like, I don't want to be around these people. He just flat out said the obvious. And it's like. Because it's harder to have these friends in the Lord because they're constantly challenging

[Al Robertson]

the way I'm living.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, I don't want to change my life. And that's what it gets down to.

[Al Robertson]

We talked about this a lot. We had our marriage refresh last weekend, and we were talking about kingdom marriage. So the idea is just like, we surrender in the kingdom, which is such an odd term of victory, is to surrender to win. And yet that's exactly what happens and how that has to happen in your marriage. And one of the illustrations that someone used, which I thought was good, is like, you know, we say, would I give my life to protect my wife and my family? And most men would say, if that moment came, I feel like I could step up and do whatever it took to protect my wife and protect my kids. In other words, take a bullet. But can you take the burden of the day to day? Because that's where really, you know, the chances of you having that life or death moment are slim. It'll happen to somebody. But 99.9% of everybody has to make a decision in marriage whether you can take the burden and not just the bullet. And I think that's exactly the same picture that he's describing here. And I love the idea that the natural reaction to it and the response is that we would become giving people who would look at situations and have compassion, you know, but if you didn't, you know, some people that are like all the things you described from Proverbs 6, if that is a marker of your life, you notice those folks usually are never, never very compassionate to people or never very.

[Jase Robertson]

How can you be. It's a guilty conscience. But it's a throwback to where he started when he said in verse six of chapter one, when he said, if we claim to have fellowship with him because we want to have fellowship with God, because look at the benefits. Live forever, don't burn in hell. You know, all the big highlight moments that you get out of this. But it says, if you claim to have fellowship with him, yet walk in the darkness. We lie and don't live by the truth. But if we walk in the light, see us in the light, then he throws this little parenthetical in we have fellowship with one another. Part of walking in the light is doing the day to day fellowship, which is the same reason people don't share Jesus. I found that people are like, well, it's just not my talent or no, it's just messy. When you share Jesus and have difficult conversations with people, people don't want to do that.

[Al Robertson]

That right.

[Jase Robertson]

And because it's messy, but it's the

[Zach Dasher]

me, but it's the messiness, that that actually works and is effective. I mean, think about what Paul said in 1 Corinthians, chapter 1 and 2. He said, essentially, I didn't come in with a bunch of really good arguments. And, and if anyone would have had great arguments, it would have been Paul. Because he was both a scholar in Judaism, he knew the Torah very well. He was, you know, the Pharisee of all Pharisees, but he was also a Roman citizen. And we saw later in the book of Acts that he was able to interact with the Greco Roman philosopher. So he was very well read. He knew his stuff, but he told the Corinthian church, when I came to you, my witness, my presentation of Jesus to you is not in wise and persuasive words, lest the cross be emptied of its power. But he said, I came to you with a demonstration of the spirit and a power so that your faith might not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God. And so when you consider the apostle Paul and how he shared Jesus, it's not about your effectiveness that leads people to Christ anyways. It's actually about the Holy Spirit in you, coming out through you, through your story, through your testimony, through your genuine, your own genuine experience with God. That's, that's, that's what you share. It's not some packaged up thing, you know,

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[Al Robertson]

Well, you know, there was the exact. At the refresh last weekend, there was a couple there that I'd never met and I didn't know who they were. I mean, there's like a lot of times there's a lot of people there. And so they were doing one of the testimony. So I knew the people that organized it, Trey and Anna and others knew this couple's story, but I had no idea. I never met them. They get up and they start sharing. And it was amazing. It was so Revelation 12:11, which is that we overcome the evil one by the blood of the lamb. The word of our testimony, the fact we don't love this life so much, we'd shrink back from anything, including death. And as they were talking, that passage just was like a highlight. It was like if it could be flashing above their head, it was because they were giving all the glory to Christ and honor. But when they went back and described their pathway, I mean, she was an atheist and he was an agnostic. And I think they were originally from California. And so that was their start. And then they start walking through. And he was a physician, he's a doctor that doesn't practice anymore, but he was a doctor and he used his position of authority, in his words, to groom women. And so he had these multiple affairs. They had both Been divorced a time or two before they found each other. And then he had had these multiple affairs of her. But he. I mean, who says that out loud? I was a groomer of women. That's what he said. He said I would find them, they were weak willed, just what described in the scripture. They would have problems. And I knew just what to say to set the stage, to then be able to take advantage of them. When he was describing, I was like, wow. I mean, you talk about a man who's found some healing that can talk about the way he was in these terms. And what was really interesting was he said what finally broke through to him was when his daughter was in a high schooler and a person was trying to groom her, a pedophile. And he said, I never had anything for children, but I was doing it to women. He said, but when it happened to my own daughter, he said, all of a sudden, he said, I looked at the situation, I was so offended and mad about the thing. And he said, I realized that's you. You're doing the same thing, just in a different genre.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, everybody's somebody's daughter.

[Al Robertson]

Exactly. Which is what I said when I got up and spoke later. But, you know, when I heard them tell that story and then how that Christ, how they finally just out of sheer brokenness and just misery of a miserable marriage and life and all that, they just came to Christ in that broken, battered way. And then he had totally changed them. And so now for the last, I think they said three years, they both work in corporate America, you know, but they just sold all their stuff and they have a motor home and they just drive around offering to do testimonies at churches and talk about their marriage. And I was like, that's the part about that. You don't love this life so much. You shrink back from anything. And so they wound up at our marriage retreat because they had met some people because they just drive around in an rv. They both work corporate jobs to make a living and to provide for them, but they live a life of now ministry and trying to help people.

[Zach Dasher]

I was like a guy like that. Like, if you think about the blood of Abel against a guy like that, it says avenge me. It says cancel him. Yeah, somebody admits that, then that's. That's worthy of cancel culture. Yeah, but, but, but the. But the blood of Jesus says forgive. Well, you think about that.

[Al Robertson]

That's right. Because we talked about. They had this thing where you around your table, you talk about the people that just did a talk or whatever. And one of the guys sitting next to me is like, man. I mean, when he was describing himself, I mean, I was getting angry. I was just like, this guy, this. I mean, I don't even want to keep listening to this guy. And, you know, and it was interesting because then he gets. He said, but man, isn't God good? And I thought that's where it winds up Right. For any of us.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, I wanted to ask you this in our last few minutes. That 1st John 3:15 is such a profound statement because there's two aspects of it. One is anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, which echoes what Jesus said on the Sermon on the Mount. Remember that? You've heard it said, don't commit murder. But I tell you, if you're angry with your brother, you've committed murder in your heart.

[Al Robertson]

Right.

[Jase Robertson]

And I mean, what a profound statement. And then it says, and you know, that no murderer has eternal life in him. Which I think people who are skeptics of the Bible think, well, wait a minute, let me get this right. Moses murder. Remember he killed the Egyptian Paul, which Zach just referred to. He was going around killing Christians. You have David, who we haven't been mentioning, but you remember his.

[Al Robertson]

He murdered his wife. I mean, the affair. He had husband. Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

So what would you tell the skeptics? I mean, I just wanted to get Yalls opinion, because I think people bring that up. They're like, well, why would John say that?

[Al Robertson]

Yeah, Well, I think because that's. That shows you how it plays out. I mean, they actually did commit murder.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Al Robertson]

You know, and. And. But where did it start? I think his point is it started because you didn't love somebody. You know, and first of all, that love is your. You lose your love for God, but then you lose your love for your neighbor. And so I think that's a great point that you describ. Three of the major characters in the whole biblical narrative were people who committed murder out of this sinful, you know, heart that was there. So, yeah, I mean, that's the prime example. When your heroes are people that have done exactly what he's warning you not to do. That tells you right there that's going to. It's got to be something bigger than just you.

[Zach Dasher]

Well, the failure, if you think about this, the failure to love, it is. It's that. And then it's also. I think it's about vocation. We talk about that a lot on this podcast. But one of the biggest. The biggest fundamental flaw with liberalism, and I mean political liberalism, is that it's historically, and I don't mean classical liberalism, I mean, like, as we know it today, is that it's seen resources as finite, and you got to hoard up the resources, right? So the whole idea is that we got an economic pie, and you got to make sure that that pie, you get your part of that P. Why? Because if that piece is gone, if somebody else eats it, well, then it's gone forever. So the mindset is. It's built on a mindset of scarcity. And so I think this is the problem. Same problem with Cain. It's why he didn't want to give up the sacrifice to God, is he was thinking with a mindset of scarcity. He didn't understand the cultural mandate. He didn't understand Genesis 1:28. Like, no, it's not scarce. We actually can create wealth. We can actually expand the garden. We can actually expand the fruit production. Like, it can be expanded. Abel got that. So he could very easily come to God with this offering. Because it's like, I mean, yeah, I give God this offering, and then we'll, you know, he'll kill produce 10, tenfold. I mean, I'm not worried about the resources. There's enough to go around where Cain was like, I got to hoard it up. And so I think it starts with a fear that you're not going to be provided with. And then you start to hoard, right? You hoard it up. You say, I'm not going to do the cultural mandate thing. I'm not going to expand the garden. I'm going to build a fence around the garden. That was Cain. And then when you look at someone who is expanding the garden, then the jealousies come in. Then you start to feel all that stuff. And so that plays out throughout all of the history of Israel. We just read Exodus 32, and either this podcast or the last, I can't remember remember, they all bleed together. But what was the issue in Exodus? Well, the Israelites, God literally has manna raining out of the sky, like bread's fallen out of the sky. He's obviously going to provide for you. And he says, just don't do one thing. Don't hoard it up. Don't gather it up. Get what you need and leave the rest there. And what'd they do? They gathered it up.

[Al Robertson]

You know what's amazing about that, Zach? You're so right. You know what they took to make the golden calf? All the plunder that God had given them out of Egypt, they took all that gold and all the grace that he gave them, and then they just melted it all down into something that they would bow down to out of scarcity. Your point is.

[Zach Dasher]

And to be fair, the only real evidence that God had given them prior to that was that he just literally parted the Red Sea for them.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah.

[Zach Dasher]

I mean, you're thinking, like, what else is. Does the God of heaven have to do? How in the world, coming out of what you just came, out of seeing what you just saw, how in the world would you think that this God, Yahweh, is not going to provide for you? But they thought that, and so they leaned on their own ability to make sure that they could build a fence around their garden instead of doing what God called them to do, which this idea of expansion in our vocation, it is a key facet of how we interact with the Kingdom of God, which goes back.

[Al Robertson]

Goes back to that presence concept. The presence of God in our lives is an infinite well of everything we'll ever need. To Zach's point, you're never going to run out. I mean, the Holy Spirit's going to provide what you need.

[Jase Robertson]

I just. I think it's interesting. He's contrasting the anger that it takes to take a life versus giving up your life.

[Al Robertson]

Exactly.

[Jase Robertson]

And so good. That's what's being highlighted.

[Al Robertson]

And remember, that's what Paul did. That's what Moses did. That's what David did. They all.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, look at our culture, all the things that result in death.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah.

[Jase Robertson]

I mean, yeah, if we all called a halt to that movement, well, civilization would die out.

[Al Robertson]

Yeah. It results in death because Satan is the architect of it. All right, we're out of time. We'll. We'll pick it up here next time on thanks for listening to the Unashamed Podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.