Ep 1286 | The Awkward Question About Sex in Heaven Christians Never Ask

Summary

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Unashamed with the Robertson Family

Episode 1286 | Missy & Lisa Push Back on Modern Lies About Marriage & Womanhood
Date: March 10, 2026
Host: Tread Lively, with Zach, Jace, Jason, Missy, Lisa, and special input from Maddie

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Episode Overview

In this rich and heartfelt episode, Missy and Lisa join the Robertson men to openly challenge contemporary narratives surrounding marriage and womanhood, exploring the biblical foundations that have guided their families for generations. The discussion ranges from the humor and messiness of real relationships to deep, biblical wisdom on cultivating homes, mentorship, faith, and resilience. By weaving personal stories with scriptural insights, the group models vulnerability, encouragement, and joy in Christian living—offering a counter-narrative to cultural pressures and isolation.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Mentorship and Community Among Women

• [07:27] Missy: Reflects on the hunger young women have for authentic mentorship, as evidenced by women traveling far to attend retreats and form genuine connections—even sharing rooms with strangers to do so.
  • “These girls are driving from all over the country… to meet me… sleeping in a bed with other girls… Who would do that?”
• [08:13] Jace & Zach: Note the rise of men’s and women’s retreats, emphasizing adults’ deep need for meaningful community.
  • "They're having, like, basically adult camp for a weekend... for relationships, connection..."

2. Breaking the Cycle: Modern Patterns in Relationships

• [08:40] Jason: Describes a recurring destructive pattern seen in youth—casual dating, breakups, and substance use—leading to shock when these habits sabotage marriages.
  • “All my friends... find a woman, have sex, break up, repeat. Then get married—shocked the pattern continues.”

3. The Power of Testimony—Different Paths to Jesus

• [09:37] Missy: Shares how both she (raised in a Christian home) and Lisa (more difficult path) can reach hurting women because Jesus meets us wherever we are.
  • “We can both speak into these 20 and 30 year olds... Jesus is there and has been there this entire time.”

4. Ministry Begins at Home

• [13:34] Jace: Stresses the spiritual importance of hospitality and creating an environment of safety and welcome in the home.
  • “If you want a ministry... home life is honestly the most important part. It's little things... But those set an expectation, an environment...”
• [15:23] Jace: Recounts his wife's homemade bread transforming their house into a place of belonging:
  • “I was, like, transported into another world... that's part of that Proverbs 31 woman... cultivating that atmosphere in her home.”

5. Cultivating Womanhood: Pushback Against Modern Lies

• [16:31] Missy: Admits she came to love homemaking later in life, appreciating how younger women now embrace it.
  • “I didn’t start out wanting to do that... But this age group, this 20 to 30s, they’re wanting to do that...”
• [20:46] Lisa: Shares a powerful self-reflection about how she’s seen through her family's, and ultimately God's, eyes (see Notable Quotes below).

6. Forgiveness, Redemption, and Biblical Standards

• [25:17] Jason: Explains Jesus’ teaching on marriage, singleness, and the “renewal of all things”—illustrating that God’s design far surpasses human arrangements.
  • “He gave them the standard... the beauty of this combination in the Lord... becomes something very hard to even describe.”

7. Pictures of Biblical Womanhood in Proverbs

• [32:26] Jace: Contrasts the Proverbs 31 woman—who cultivates and gives life—with the “forbidden woman” who consumes and destroys.
  • “Are you consuming, or are you cultivating a garden?... a woman who cultivates a garden, as opposed to a woman who’s drawing men... in to consume.”

8. Never Underestimate the Power of God

• [30:59] Jason: Emphasizes that spiritual rebirth in Christ is as radical as literal birth, and the restoration offered is greater than we imagine.
  • “I think you’re underestimating the power of God. What he can do in your life now is the equivalent of you... in your mother’s womb... and now being 50 years old.”
• [51:10] Jason: Quotes Job’s faith amid trial, showing his understanding of the resurrection even before Christ:
  • “I know that my redeemer lives, and... in my flesh I will see God... How my heart yearns within me.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Expressing Love in Family

• [02:45] Jace: “I teared up. You know, I thought, yes, I know this is 80% sarcastic, but the 20%, that was sincere. And I just want to tell you that that was very special.”
• [03:28] Lisa: “What’s in your heart comes out of your mouth.”

On Being Seen Through Others’ Eyes (Lisa’s Reflection)

• [21:00] Lisa:
  • “Whenever I look in the mirror, I don’t remember being in a hailstorm, but at some point... that’s what I see: hail dents. But my husband sees something different...”
  • “When I see myself through my Savior’s eyes, I see a broken vessel that has been mended by the blood of the cross... refined by fire and redeemed for His glory.”

On Biblical Masculinity: The Seven Marks (Job 31)

• [38:54+] Zach: Presents Job’s seven marks of a respectable man:
  1. Protects eyes and mind from lust: “I made a covenant with my eyes not to look lustfully at a young woman.”
  2. Protects honesty
  3. Protects faithfulness
  4. Protects others’ dignity
  5. Protects blessings by being generous
  6. Protects contentment from greed
  7. Protects future by practicing forgiveness

On Job’s Final Declaration of Faith

• [51:10] Jason/Job:
  • “I know that my redeemer lives and that in the end he will stand upon the earth... Yet in my flesh I will see God. I myself will see him with my own eyes—how my heart yearns within me.”

Playful and Personal Family Moments

• [18:15] Missy & Jason: On Jason eating all the homemade shrimp bisque:

  • Missy: “The empty bowl was in the sink. I was like, what?”
  • Jason: “It was absolutely fantastic.”

• [54:11] Zach & Lisa: On eternal relationships in heaven:

  • Lisa: (After hearing there will be no marriage in heaven) “I don’t want to go to heaven.”
  • Zach: “Babe, we’re still gonna be... best friends. We’re... going to know each other for eternity. We’re soulmates.”

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Mentorship and Community: 07:27–09:36
• Testimony and Paths to Faith: 09:37–10:52
• Hospitality and Home Life: 13:34–16:31
• Lisa’s Mirror Reflection: 20:46–23:05
• Biblical Marriage and Resurrection: 25:17–31:23
• Comparing Proverbs Women: 32:26–33:32
• Job’s Seven Marks for Men: 38:54–49:13
• Job’s Declaration, Resurrection Focus: 51:10–53:51
• Playful Family Banter: Scattered esp. 02:45, 18:15, 54:11

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Tone & Style

• Conversational, humorous, with frequent banter and gentle teasing
• Open, emotional, and deeply personal testimonies
• Scripture-centered, drawing practical lessons from Biblical texts
• Encouraging, realistic, and down-to-earth

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Summary

This episode offers practical, gospel-centered pushback against the confusion and discouragement many feel about marriage and womanhood in today’s world. Drawing from both the Proverbs 31 woman and the book of Job, the Robertsons underline how real faith translates into real love, service, and resilience—right in the heart of the home. Through personal stories, transparent testimony, careful Bible study, and lots of laughter, they encourage listeners to pursue God's best—for themselves, their marriages, and their families.

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Missy: “I hope that I made my home easy for my children—the easiest possible way for them to find Jesus.” [33:32]
Lisa: “When I see myself through my Savior’s eyes, I see a broken vessel that has been mended by the blood of the cross...” [21:00]
Jason: “Don’t underestimate the power of God. It’s way better.” [54:36]

Transcript

[Zach]

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[Jace]

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[Lisa]

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[Jason]

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[Lisa]

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[Jason]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Zach]

Welcome back to Unashamed. I'm happy to announce back by popular demand. Thanks to Maddie, Lisa and Missy have stayed on.

[Missy]

We tried to leave.

[Zach]

Well, he tried to leave because we had only scheduled one. But I have to admit, I was secretly hoping that the spirit might move us here today for you guys to stay on another podcast just because people love listening to y' all so much

[Jason]

and they need a break from us.

[Zach]

And they need a break from us.

[Missy]

Yes.

[Zach]

This has been a long week of podcasts and we didn't think about it. But as we were pontificating mostly Lisa and Missy about mentorship that Maddie, we had our little 20 something right over here listening and was impacted by what you guys said. So she convince y' all to stay and keep this discussion going. Zach's still with us as well.

[Jace]

I'm still here.

[Jason]

Yes. That's the least I've talked in an episode in years.

[Zach]

Media Moon. So that's. That's.

[Jace]

I actually thought was the best episode

[Zach]

we've done in years.

[Jace]

I'm kidding.

[Zach]

Jason, you don't have to kid. I.

[Jason]

Sometimes I get tired of hearing myself.

[Jace]

I got.

[Jason]

Hold on.

[Lisa]

I got.

[Jace]

I do have to tell people this, that Jace called me yesterday because if you've been listening to the last week or so, we had a little altercation of him never telling me that he loved me and he literally. I walked out of the the podcast studio yesterday when we recorded. The phone rings. I pick it up. It's Jace. I don't even remember what you asked me.

[Zach]

It Was about a podcast guest. Is the reason for the.

[Jace]

Okay, yeah. But he ended with I love you, cousin. And it was.

[Zach]

It just.

[Jace]

I teared up. You know, I thought, yes, I know this is 80% sarcastic, but the 20%, that was sincere. It was very, very meaningful. And I just want to tell you that that was very special.

[Missy]

It's now on record.

[Zach]

It's on record.

[Jason]

On record.

[Zach]

He had a moment.

[Jace]

Don't give him a hard time for. For getting on to me. He did call me. I want you to know that if you listen, he did call.

[Missy]

Zach is taken up for you, babe.

[Zach]

Yeah, absolutely. See, it's like puppies and rainbows.

[Jason]

It's.

[Zach]

Everything is good here.

[Jason]

The women bring this funny as he knew that it was. He called it 80%. I would have probably said 90, but sarcastic. But it did come out of my mouth.

[Zach]

He did say the words.

[Jason]

He did say the words.

[Lisa]

What's in your heart comes out of your mouth.

[Jason]

I've said one time that the people that I make fun of, I really love. So you're welcome.

[Missy]

You know what he said to me for years, Zach, and I didn't never know if it was like, if I could believe him or not. When I would ask him to do something or tell him to do something or whatever, he would say, I'm just here to make you happy. And I would stop and I'd be like, are you being sarcastic or is that for real? Because I don't have time to figure it out right now. So anyway, go on until the next time he would say it. I'm like he said, I'm just here to make you happy.

[Jason]

And the answer to your question, I

[Missy]

still really don't know if it was.

[Jason]

How many years have I said that?

[Missy]

Many, many, many.

[Jason]

We're talk. At some point, I want you to believe that.

[Lisa]

You know what Al says? He says, it's what I live for.

[Zach]

Well, I don't know. I mean, that's 100% sarcastic because she'll say something like, hey, do you want to go? What would be something you would ask me to do that you know I hate? Do you want to go with me to Dillard's? It's baby would never even be asking James. Well, of course I'm not going to go, but I'm saying that's my line back when she knows the circus. It's what I. I live for.

[Lisa]

That's what I live for.

[Jace]

Well, maybe you ladies can interpret Jill. She's not here to defend herself, but she says this to me. She says hey, I'm gonna let you. And then she fills in the bl. How I'm gonna let you put Ruth to bed? Or how I'm gonna let you go pick up the boys? I'm gonna let you.

[Zach]

Like, I'm like, what is that?

[Jace]

You gonna let me. You gonna let me go?

[Missy]

You just say thank you.

[Jace]

She gives me a task.

[Missy]

Thank you, honey.

[Zach]

Let you do what you should be doing. That's what that

[Jace]

I don't like.

[Jason]

I think Proverbs 31:25 said she can laugh at the days to come.

[Lisa]

That's it.

[Jason]

Or in the case of going to. Where was that called?

[Zach]

Dillard's.

[Missy]

It's a department store.

[Jason]

I did not even know what that was.

[Zach]

It's where Dave Ramsey lives. Jason, you didn't know him either?

[Jace]

No.

[Jason]

When she said Dillard's. I know a guy named Jim Dillard who fishes, so I thought I would. Has he opened a store up?

[Lisa]

Yeah.

[Jace]

No, but.

[Jason]

Okay, I missed.

[Zach]

It's pretty funny. But now, dad used to say, remember when he would always say, I mean, get a sense of humor. Go to Walmart and buy a sense of humor. Yeah. Personality.

[Jason]

Well, you left out. For crying out loud.

[Zach]

For crying out loud.

[Lisa]

Crying out loud.

[Zach]

So he did have a few Good, good marriage saying.

[Missy]

So I do miss your dad. I'm just gonna say.

[Zach]

Oh, we just talked about this, Missy. I think yesterday when we were recording that how. How often we. More now quote him on the podcast. Because it's just like he's always front of mind. And I know a lot of you out there have told me that you love me and Zach and Jace, but you missed at it. No, none more than us. His steadiness and always, you know. Okay, is Saturday Night Live over? Can we get to the Bible? You know, like, he would always.

[Jason]

Like, there's something to say about being a lightning rod in the form of a human.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jason]

Because my dad, he just. He was. He was a lightning rod. And it produces a lot of thunder.

[Zach]

And the older he got, the less the governor worked. It was just like he was going to tell you what he did.

[Lisa]

I really missed him on the movie set the other day because the guy, I mean, he looked like a young Phil.

[Zach]

And I just thought it did kind of channel back. I felt the same way.

[Lisa]

And I told him, I said. They said, we're sorry about your dad. And Al said, thanks. And I said, you know, you're just going about your life and. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, I miss Phil, you know,

[Zach]

so I want to keep talking. Maddie has asked that we. That I give the respectable side as well, which I will in a little bit. But since now we've got more time. Missy, I wanted to get your. Take some on the. On the proverb stuff, because you do that.

[Missy]

Well, I was saying when Maddie was like, can y' all stay? I said. And you pointed out her age, which fits into the category that I said. These girls are driving from all over the country or flying, spending money alone to come to Logtown to meet me, to sit with me, whatever, my friends, but they're sleeping in a bed with other girls that they've never met before. Who would do that? Would you, Maddie? Would you do that?

[Zach]

You would? Yeah.

[Jace]

Wow.

[Missy]

I would never do that.

[Jason]

Hungering and thirst I agree. Direction and beat down the Lord but

[Missy]

there is a voice, connection and community.

[Jace]

They want to be. They want to be with mentors and then other women and young. I think young men are looking for the same.

[Zach]

It's also where it is because it's why the popularity of these retreats. Men and women's retreats now are so big and popular. I mean, they're going out to camp and having this. They're having, like, basically adult camp for a weekend to. To have just what you're talking about. Relationships, connection. And, you know, this thing's been, what, about 10 years now, I guess. I mean, it's huge. They're all over our community. I guess they're all around the world. But there's certainly a lot of them happening.

[Jason]

Look, I remember even in high school, I mean, all my friends, they were. Which I was following Jesus then, but it was a pattern, okay? You find a woman, you have sex with her, you break up, you repeat the process, you drink in between. It's like, all my friends, that's what they were doing. Well, then they get married and they're shocked that this pattern continues.

[Zach]

Now you're violating the covenant.

[Jason]

Complete destruction. I'm like, well, what did you think was going to happen? You're in a habit.

[Zach]

Great point.

[Jason]

It's a series of events that are happening that is not the foundation and recipe for a successful marriage. And then the whole thing explodes. And you're like, well, I don't understand what happened. I just think that there needs to be another way. And you get that from wisdom.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Missy]

Well, we were talking in the last podcast, too, about Lisa's path and how you found Jesus, and it was not easy. We didn't go into detail. But your testimony, when you speak in front of people does go into detail and mine was very easy. I was set up to learn about Jesus from a very early age and I was in a safe and secure environment and I was at a Christian school and I was at our same church that we've been at our entire lives. And so, so, but, but we can still both speak in to these 20 and 30 year olds because the message is the same. Jesus is there and has been there this entire time. Acts 17 he put us in the best place possible to set us up to find him, although he's right here the whole time. So I think that that's what's so encouraging about the whole message is that the more transparent we are about our lives and the way that we were raised, it appeals to so many more women. They're like, I don't want to live like that or I have lived like that and Jesus is still from me. I'm not too ashamed to ask for help.

[Jace]

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[Zach]

So was there anything out of those points that Lisa was kind of. She just picked seven kind of things out of the text. Was there anything in that text that.

[Lisa]

Well, my seven went with your seven.

[Missy]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Right?

[Missy]

Yeah.

[Jason]

Y' all have lovable respect.

[Missy]

I mean, I. Like I said in the last podcast, I've actually been every single part of this woman, but just not at the same time, you know, and so. And my children have told me verbally how much they love me and how much they have been blessed by me, which, I mean, is there any other better goal to reach as a woman than that? I mean, I love that my husband arises, you know, and is respected at the city gate. But when my children arise and have told me how much they love me and appreciate things that I've done for them, that's the ultimate to me. I don't care about anything else. Evidently, everything else that we've done in our home and in the community has been authentic and transparent because my children know, our children know before anybody else exactly what's going on in the home, and they can attest to it.

[Jace]

So, yeah, it starts in the home. I think that's the we want to have. If you want a ministry, you think about a global ministry or even a regional ministry or in your city, that home life is honestly the most important part. And. And it's little things that you and I know you guys live this way as well. Jill does it. And I've stayed in both of your homes many times, and there's little things that may not seem to be spiritual things, but they are like that lead for your home to be an open place. Like, there's always coffee, there's always some food laying around. There's always blankets on the couch. I mean, it's opening up. And that ministry of your home is so important. And I feel that anytime I go to Louisiana, I typically stay at one of Yalls houses because I just feel more comfortable there and I feel at home or, you know, I think you cultivate that environment. And so this isn't like, we're not explicitly opening up the Bible and preaching whenever we have coffee, like, ready to drink and drink something. But those are things that set an expectation in an environment that I think are super important. And just recently, I had this thought. The. Jill's gotten into this. She orders wheat berries, like it's the thing she's into now. And then she had. She bought this little mill that she mills up her own flour, and then she makes bread out of this. It's like, supposed to be healthy. I don't know if it's. I mean, whatever, but, I mean, she's into it. I mean, like, into it. And at first I was kind of like, why? It's just like, why are we getting all this stuff? You know? I mean, you got. You got barrels of wheat berries sitting in the pantry. Now what. What are we doing here? But the other morning, I walk other. And I walk in, and she was making that bread, and I smelled it,

[Zach]

and I was like, whoa.

[Jace]

I. And I was, like, transported into another world. Like, just an aroma. I said, man, like, it just. I walked in my house and just immediately felt something like, oh, wow. Like, honey, I'm home.

[Zach]

You know what I mean?

[Jace]

Like, it was like that kind of feeling. And literally, because she's taken this initiative to go through this process of making bread as opposed to going to get the package of wonder bread, just throwing it on the table. Two different experiences, right? And one set an environment in our home that literally. I walked in, it was, like, noticeable, and I was like, wow, that's. That's part of that Proverbs 31 woman is that she is cultivating that type of atmosphere in her community and in her home.

[Zach]

Well, I love. And what you just described are the senses. And there's. Obviously, we have more than just one. I mean, there's what we see, what we smell, what we taste. And all of our experiences are then through those senses that the Almighty gave us. We're made in his image. I mean, when he became a man, Jesus Christ, part of that was to experience the senses that he made in us. I mean, so that is powerful, Zack. I mean, to smell the aroma of your home.

[Missy]

You know, I think women. There's all different types of women, and moms and wives, mothers, all that. Not everybody seems like they have pride in doing that. Mine has grown over the years. I didn't start out wanting to do that. It seemed like I was way too busy to do what Jill is taking pride in with that bread. I see Brighton doing that with sourdough with homemade pie crust. You know, Mama K's homemade pie crust recipe. She's doing that. I wish I would have had more time or the desire to do that at a younger age. But I feel like this age group, this 20 to 30s, they're wanting to do that in their home, which is fantastic, you know, because it does set a tone for your children and for your husband. So even when it's just like the two of us, we came back from a couple of long weekends, of speaking. And I thought, I've got three pounds of 80, 20 meat in the freezer. I could make a meatloaf, you know. And so I was like, let me just go ahead and do that. And then I just forget because I wasn't cooking for your parents really as much. Not really cooking for mine that much because they've got some other things set up and nobody was home this week. And we had little man some, but he's not going to eat meatloaf, you know, so. But there's something in it for me to want to do that. I enjoy it too. But I never really cooked for myself. Always cooked for whoever was in and around and, you know, staying at our house or whatever.

[Jason]

I feel like this is leading to how much I ate.

[Missy]

Oh, well, I'm saying I cooked a lot this week for nobody to be there. But Jace has eaten it all.

[Zach]

He's been working hard.

[Jason]

He's cleaning up for two days. Then she made. She has a new recipe. Recipe. Because I was gonna say you needed

[Zach]

fuel for that cleanup of your yard.

[Jason]

When you said, you know, you wish you'd have done that, but it was worth the wait for me.

[Missy]

And your mom does like a good meatloaf sandwich the next day.

[Zach]

That's my. I actually prefer it on the sandwich.

[Missy]

She does too much.

[Jason]

I brought her one.

[Jace]

They loafs the best.

[Jason]

But then you made that shrimp bisque. And so she came in yesterday and she walked in there and said, the empty.

[Missy]

Well, the empty bowl was in the sink. I was like, what?

[Jason]

This bowl was this big around and about this tall. If you're listening, it was about a foot by a foot.

[Missy]

No, it wasn't special order.

[Jason]

It was pretty big. And that was like day two, I think of it. And I finished it off and you were like, did you actually eat all that? Which I thought, what kind of question is that?

[Missy]

Well, I was thinking about another bowl because I double the recipe. So it's a serving of eight.

[Zach]

I had one, he had seven. That's what I swear I just did.

[Jace]

I just did the math there.

[Zach]

I was like, okay, okay. The man's gotta have my little weight. No, he's working it up.

[Jason]

I'm not eating. I can tell you that. It was absolutely fantastic.

[Zach]

So. So I want you to. I want you to read something you didn't. We didn't get a chance to do because we ran out of time on the last podcast. But when we get to the end of this, Proverbs 31, you know, we tell the story and part of our story, we talked about Lisa in the backyard. But before that happened, my interrogation of her happened in our bathroom because it was the furthest place away from the kids. And this was a hard, bad conversation. And so we were literally shut up in our bathroom at our last house. And there's mirrors in there, you know, because it's the bathrooms, there's big mirrors. And so Lisa tells about looking in the mirror in the moment of now, finally coming to truth and not recognizing who she saw looking back at her like she finally was like, who are you? Because in the moment of truth. And so she does the thing here at the end. And I wanted to read it because it's so good. In fact, she was like, the last time we spoke, she said, we don't have time for me to do the thing. I said, no, we're doing the thing. I'll cut some of my stuff off, but I want you to read that because it's so powerful. And this is kind of how she closes out her part.

[Lisa]

So every day we look at ourselves in the mirror and we see ourselves aging as women.

[Zach]

Because this was the one about the beauty is fleeting and right, but fear of the Lord.

[Lisa]

And whenever I look in the mirror, I don't remember being in a hailstorm. But at some point in my life, I guess I was, because that's what I see is hail dense.

[Zach]

I didn't even know what that meant.

[Lisa]

But my husband sees something different. When Al looks at me, he chooses to see me differently, I think. And you know, whenever he was 80 pounds overweight, I chose to see him differently. I never looked at him and said, oh, you know, pig, you need to lose some weight. I mean, I never. In my heart, I never thought that. Because he's still the same person.

[Zach]

Yeah, she never nagged me about it.

[Lisa]

Yeah, he's still my husband. But when I look in the mirror and I see myself through my husband's eyes, I see a helper, a soulmate, a faithful wife, a loving mother and grandmother. And when I see myself through my daughter's eyes, I see a mom who will fight to the death for her kids. A mom who knows that my kids aren't perfect. But also, no, I'm not either. And together we work to help each other in this life to get to heaven. When I see myself through my grandkids eyes, it always makes me tear up. I see a mam. That's what they call me. M A M. Who loves them unconditionally, who will be by their side, cheering them on to heaven as long as I live. They see a man they can always count on. But when I see myself through my savior's eyes, I see a broken vessel that has been mended by the blood of the cross. I see a child, his child, who has failed a lot, but who he has taken and refined by fire and redeemed for his glory.

[Jace]

We've both been focused on health, getting healthy. We both lost weight.

[Zach]

Yeah, I've needed to get healthier, definitely. You know, losing weight was part of that. But also deciding what I put in my body makes a big difference as well.

[Jace]

That's why I've been taking a supplement called Texas Superfood. And Jill's taking it as well. It's from our friend, Dr. Dennis Black. He invented Texas Superfood 25 years ago to help people get the nutritional value that they needed. It's got 55 vine ripened fruits and vegetables, vegetables, probiotics and enzymes, all in a capsule or in a powder that you can put in a shake. And customers feel the difference in just seven days. It's more energy all day long, better mental clarity instead of brain fog, better sleep at night just feeling better about their overall health. And I've been taking Texas Superfood now for, I guess, several months and it just does make me feel better throughout the day. And it gives my gut. It gives my gut the probiotics that it needs as well. Texas Superfood was super easy to incorporate into my morning routine. And if you think this is some gimmick, you'd be wrong because there's been over a million bottles sold, not because of some fancy marketing, but that's because real results create loyal customers. So head on over to Texas Superfood.com you can use our code unashamed and get 35% off your first order. Plus there is a 100% satisfaction guarantee. That's Texas Superfood.com discount code unashamed.

[Zach]

So that's the way she closes. It's just so powerful, that idea that at one time you can look at yourself and not recognize who you are. But then when you see yourself through other people's eyes, once you grown in Christ, what that looks like. So I just think that's always a powerful. And she just wrote that one day and I was like, that needs to be like the staple that's the close every time. Because it's so good. Because people, they see themselves only many times through their flaws and their mistakes

[Lisa]

and through the shame and through the

[Zach]

shame and the guilt and for so Many years. That was what was holding Lisa back. She just couldn't give that to the Almighty. Like you said, Jace, it was a lifestyle in her case, not things that were done to her even when she was very young, that then created this firestorm of the Evil One's opportunity to have her heart. And he did for a long time, until he didn't.

[Jason]

I wanted to share this. I mean, I'll do this quickly as I can, because we're talking about relationships and marriages and all this. And when Jesus brought this up in Matthew 19 about why people are getting divorced for any and every reason, and he just. He goes back to the beginning and quotes in Genesis where it says, haven't you read this? 19:4. He replied that at the beginning, the Creator made them male and female and said, for this reason, a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore, what God has joined together, let man not separate. And, you know, we're just talking about all this. But the beauty of this combination in the Lord becomes something that's very hard to even describe, the awesomeness of what actually happens. And so he didn't get into the little argument. He was just like, this is the ideal. This is the standard. But then in Jesus, they asked for the exception.

[Zach]

He gave them the standard.

[Jason]

He gave them the standard. But then he goes on to say, it's okay to be single. You know, when he gets to verse 12, he's like, some people have renounced marriage for the kingdom of God. And then here he is. He never was married, but then he became the husband of the group of people, the church. Well, then he has an illustration about little children coming up there. So all of a sudden, you're putting all this together just in Matthew's mind, because like what Missy just said, the greatest gift she's had in life was her kids saying, I love you, Mom. Good job.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jason]

And this is what I wanted to bring up. Well, then he, you know, has this encounter with the rich young man and not this thought in marriage, you know, money's always a problem, but just in life. There's more about in here in the Gospels as being a potential problem, but it's something I never had noticed. In chapter 19, at the end of that conversation with the rich young ruler in verse 28, write this down. Matthew 19:28. This is only one of two times this word is used in the New Testament. And I'm going to read it. Jesus said to Them, I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things. That phrase, as a word sometimes translated regeneration, it's only used twice, but it's a new birth when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne. You who have followed me will also sit on the 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel. I mean, you're going to be exalted. And so the other time that's used is Titus 3:5, where it says, he saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal of the Holy Spirit. So this new birth, and here's the point I wanted to make, because a couple chapters later, here comes these Sadducees, and they're like, let's say a person has married this woman seven times. They bring up this obscure law, and they're like, at the resurrection, who will be her husband? And I mean, he basically called them stupid. He said, you're ignorant and stupid because you don't know the power of God or the scriptures. And I said all that in that package, to say this. When you think about how God designed us, husband and wife, one flesh, kids come. Think about that process of being born. And here he uses this word of this, when all things are reborn, what that will be. Think about the transition. I mean, if you see a picture of me in my mother's womb at three or four weeks old and look at me now, you're like, what happened? And I'm with another human, and we're having more of these little humans, it is. So we take it for granted. But the. That birth process just of getting here is a testimony to the power of God. Even when you look at the details, you're breathing liquid in your mom, and then all of a sudden you come out and you're done with that, and you're now breathing air. I mean, if you breathe liquid now, you die. How does this even happen? So I said all that to say, this new birth that I saw happen in Lisa's life, it was such a power of God that it was indescribable. And you couldn't even foresee it. And you fast forward all the way into our resurrection and this renewal of all things. I think we underestimate the power of

[Zach]

God, is my point, and such a good point. And think about the context of why he said that to the disciples. Because remember, the rich young ruler had just walked away, sad. And they all looked at each other and said, I mean, this is the best guy we know. They were looking at him like he was way better than them, because they were like, who then can be saved. Remember, that was in that same context. So Jesus is telling them, when you're reborn, because your heart trusts in me, you can accomplish anything. You know, that's when you're exalted in that new birth. So it was out of the. They looked at him and they were looking at themselves, like, this guy's way better than me.

[Jason]

Well, I just felt like I needed to say that because, like, these women Missy's mentoring and these women you're talking to, all these women are sitting there saying, I don't know what to do. And I think you're underestimating the power of God. What he can do in your life now is the equivalent of you pictured in your mother's womb at three weeks and now being 50 years old.

[Zach]

We call it the miracle of birth, by the way.

[Jace]

Yeah, it's a good framework for Proverbs 31, too, because when you read Proverbs 31 about that. That woman. And I think Missy was kind of saying this earlier, but it's a good. It's really kind of a good pushback. I think people, way I've heard it taught, too, is like, here's the formula of what you're supposed to do. And then you try to conjure up, like, this performative thing that this woman is. And then you're like, I can't be this woman. You know, I think the framework that you read the text in, because if you read through Proverbs, there's pictures of other women in Proverbs, and you got to kind of look at the two different pictures. I was going to read two verses that give a picture of another type of woman versus the proverb 31, woman. And I want to wrap it up with what Jay said about the new birth. The other woman is called the forbidden woman. This is Proverbs 22. The mouth of a forbidden woman is a deep pit. He with whom the Lord is angry will fall into it. And then Proverbs 23, it's. For a prostitute is a deep pit, and an adulteress is a narrow well. So you think about the. The imagery there. There's one type of woman, particularly around her. I think this is around her sexuality. Her sexuality is a trap. And. And you fall into. So she's consuming men. They're falling into a deep well. So you would imagine this woman is like a black hole, and she's just pulling in everything around her that's God's like, don't be like that. That's not the picture. The picture of the Proverbs 31 Woman is. Everything is going outward. She's creating life. And so when you said. When Mitsky talked about the joy of her children, literally came her sexuality, Jill. All our sexuality. It actually led to more kids, not inward. It led to, like, an expanding of life so that it sees two different pictures. Are you consum or are you cultivating a garden? That's why it's a good framework to read it in. I think it's more of a picture of a woman who cultivates a garden as opposed to a woman who's drawing men and things in to consume.

[Missy]

Well, this woman, like when I said earlier that it was easy for Jesus was easy for me because I learned about him from a very, very early age. And I learned about all of the Old Testament, what we call characters. They were actually real people with real lives. But I had all of that as cultivation in my heart and in my head every week of my life. The Proverbs 31 lady seems like her accomplishing all of this is making it easy for her children to find Jesus. They want to find him. It's been cultivated in their home with their. With their dad who's respected at the city gate, with the mom working so hard with her pouring into her children. They want to either be like her, like we talked about. Either it's King Solomon or his mother that wrote this, but it's obviously, if it's King Solomon, he likes that lady. If it's about his mom, he likes that lady. And he wants to have that in his life for his own children and for his own life as a wife. But I just feel like that that's what I want to do as a mom. And I mean, my job is done, you know, except for helping out with this little man right now. My job is done. So I hope that I made my home easy for my children, the easiest possible way for them to find Jesus. Not all of them found him so easily, you know, and they had their own testimonies, but there was never a doubt in my mind that they would come back to him if they turned away from him for a while because of how they were raised. In my home, I never had a doubt. Did you?

[Jason]

Not a doubt.

[Missy]

Not a doubt. And that's what you want to do. That's where you want to be as a parent.

[Jace]

Well, spring's right around the corner, Jason. Now it's time to get back out in the yard.

[Jason]

Oh, I've been out in the yard, Zach.

[Zach]

In my. In my flower bed, Zach. I mean, I lost three of the trees. So I've definitely got to get online and get me some. Fast Growing Trees.

[Jace]

Yeah, Fast Growing Trees. It's America's largest and most trusted online nursery with thousands of trees and plants and over 2 million happy customers. You know, we've all ordered trees there. I've got the Leland Cypress. Al you say bought some fruit trees. Fast Growing trees has over 6,000 plants to choose from. Fruit trees, privacy trees, flowering trees, shrubs, and house plants. So whatever you're looking for, Fast Growing Trees helps you find options that actually work for your particular climate, space, and lifestyle. And when they're alive and thrive, guarantee your plants will arrive happy and healthy. Plus, there's no green thumb required because they can help you choose the right plants for your for your yard and teach you how to care for them. Fast Growing Trees makes it easy to get that yard you've been dreaming of and at a price that won't break the bank. So right now they have great deals on spring planting essentials, up to half off on select plants. And listeners to our show get an additional 20% off their purchase when using the code Unashamed at checkout. That's an additional 20% off. Better plants and better growing at fastgrowingtrees.com using the code unashamed at checkout fast growingtrees.com code unashamed. Now's the perfect time to plant. Let's grow together. Use Unashamed to save today. Offer is valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply.

[Zach]

So let me flip for the rest of the podcast and give you the other marks because. Because Maddie asked us to. The. So we do, you know, we do this together, back and forth, like, I'll do a respectable. And Lisa does a lovable. If we're together in front of an audience, sometimes we do it, you know, individually to men and women. But Job is interesting because in some ways it's similar because he's almost a mythical figure. He's certainly ancient. Some people even think he's not a real person, that it was just like someone wrote this story of Job because you have the weird, like, first two chapters or the first chapter where God and Satan are having this conversation. And it's a definitely a different unique book in the Bible. But assuming that he was a real man who lived, which I think he was because his friends had names. So I don't think he's made up, but he certainly was an amazing man. And I think I said this on a recent podcast. He, you know, the evil one attacked him by taking everything he had, all his possessions, which for a man, you know, the idea of being a provider is big. So he took that away. Then he took away everything he loved his children. And then the respect of his wife, because she just said, I don't know what you did, but you just need to curse God and get it over with. And so she basically bolted. And again, she lost her kids, too, so I'm not hating on her. But she left him. And then he lost everything he was. Because the last thing Satan took was his strength, his health, which is a man. That's the hard one to give up. And as we get older, we realize it more and more that you lose that strength. So he hit him in all the places where you can hit a man. And so when I go to job 31, it's out of the idea that he's defending his character as a protector, but he's really lost all sense to be able to do it. So Job's in a tight spot, and so he's sort of defending himself to his friends. But, man, he almost lays out, like, the Proverbs situation an unattainable picture of how it's supposed to be, but it's very powerful. So here's the seven. First one is, I made a covenant with my eyes not to look lustfully at a young woman. So he protects the eyes and the mind. And all of us know as men, we did a whole podcast on Covenant eyes about pornography and the scourge it is to men and women. Unfortunately, it's growing more in women now, you know, because it's just the way our culture is. But for all young men, it was always out there. And Jace described it his first, like, time out with the buddies. Remember, the first thing they did was break out the naked pictures.

[Jason]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Zach]

I mean, that's just.

[Jason]

Well, that was my first and last invite to the little cabin in the woods.

[Zach]

Somebody had drinking out of a bottle, and somebody had a picture of naked. Naked girls.

[Jason]

And they had a big marijuana joint. And that was before marijuana was quite popular.

[Zach]

Exactly.

[Jason]

You were.

[Jace]

Yeah, you were. That was the wrong crowd for you to get in with

[Jason]

Jesus, with them eventually.

[Zach]

And I've told this. Well, I told it on the last podcast, but I'll just mention it before I move on. There's a verse that I love that Jesus said in Matthew 6. The eyes, the lamp of the body. If you're like, if your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eyes are unhealthy, your Whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness? And that's what pornography is. It's fake. It's not real. But it is real, people. And I've told you guys before, it's someone's daughter. It may be with somebody's wife or girlfriend, someone's sister for sure. And you look at those things, you think, man, why would I want to be lusting? It's not healthy for my eyes or my mind. And it's a scourge and it's wrecked a lot of families and it's wrecked a lot of people. And so that's how he starts it. And I've always thought it was interesting because he would have lived in an era where only thing he would have seen were eyes and ankles. And he still made the covenant, you know, because they were covered up back in the day. The one like today, going down to Orange beach, you know, So I just thought it was amazing thing. But he made the covenant. He said, I'm going to do this.

[Lisa]

But another thing about that is that as wives, we can't live up to what you have seen on a computer screen. We're never going to be perfect like that airbrushed person on that computer screen

[Jason]

or surgically enhanced or whatever.

[Lisa]

So it gives you. It gives you an illusion that this is what all women look like. And then, well, that ain't what I see at home exactly.

[Zach]

But it starts with us. Second one is he protect. All these are protect. He protects honesty. If I have walked with falsehood or my foot has hurried after deceit, let God weigh me in honest scales and he will know that I am blameless. And I love that idea about being a man of your word. When you tell somebody you're going to do something, you do it. I mean, that's what he says. I'm going to protect honesty. Because without honesty, you know, we're in serious trouble. Not just as a man, but also as a family. And I love telling the story. Speaking about, one of my favorite movies is Taken, which is a terrible setup that the guy's daughter is taken. But when he, when they are about to take her, remember, he says, I will find you and I will come for you. And then at the very end, the last scene, when the pedophiles got the knife to her throat and the guy starts to negotiate and boom. He just right between the eyes. And then she looks at him and she said, you came. And he looks almost shocked. He said, I told you I would And I just, you know, it just encompasses to me everything we're supposed to be. As a dad, as a husband. I told you I would, and I meant that. And so while, you know, I always say I would have never gotten out of the airport trying to find an Uber or whatever, he just, you know, trashes all of Paris.

[Missy]

He has a special set of skills.

[Zach]

A special set of skills. That's exactly right.

[Lisa]

Al does, too, but not quite the same as his.

[Zach]

I'm pretty good with the Bible text, but not too good with the bad guys. The third one is again, protects. Protects faithfulness. If my heart has been enticed by a woman. And this is one of those verses that, man is, if my heart has been enticed by a woman, or if I have lurked at my neighbor's door, then may my wife grind another man's grain. And I always say when I read that, I don't even know what that means, but now I do know, because Zach has given us a picture of that. May my wife grind another man's grain, and may other men sleep with her. He goes ahead and lays it out.

[Missy]

I wasn't expecting the word grain.

[Zach]

I know exactly the last thing you want happen. Yeah, I mean, Zach, you walk in your house, you got the. You don't want Jill grinding somebody else's grain, right?

[Jace]

She grind my grain.

[Jason]

Agree.

[Jace]

And that's biblical. If that offends you, that is biblical.

[Zach]

And so I always. I always quote when I'm speaking about this, one of my favorite passages, which is from Genesis 39, when Joseph wouldn't sleep with his boss's wife. And look, he had every reason. He's a young guy. He's a teenager. Like, she's the boss, too. Like, he had every reason to do it. And he said the words, how could I do such a thing? And sin against God? And once again, he elevated. It was like, I'm not going against God because you're telling me to come to bed with me. And, man, that's a huge. That was a teenage boy that said that he already realized something special about faithfulness. So we want to protect that. 4. The respectable Marquis protects the dignity of other people. And here's the way Joe put it. If I have denied justice to any of my servants, whether male or female, when they have a grievance against me, what will I do when God confronts me? What will I answer when called to account? Did not he who made me in the womb make them do not the same? Does not the same one form us both within Our mothers. In other words, what makes me so special that I have the right to disrespect another person? I don't. We're all human beings. And so I want to treat other. I want to protect dignity of everybody possible. And look, a lot of times people don't protect it themselves. That's on them, but it's not going to be on me. And so I love that idea that that's part of what you should see as a man to be respectable. Number five protects blessings by being consistently generous. And he said it this way. If I have denied the desires of the poor or let the eyes of the widow grow weary, if I have kept my bread to myself. Zach. Not sharing it with the fatherless. Our good friends at preborn Network clinic as they they believe in life as we do. What they want to offer is compassion without pressure. And more than 80% of the time, when a mother sees her baby on ultrasound at a preborn Network clinic, she chooses life. This March, preborn is hoping to save 6,800 babies. But it's going to take 124 partners saying yes every day. Would you pause your busy day for just one moment and become a yes right now? One ultrasound is just $28. And $140 helps five mothers. Every dollar helps save babies and share hope as Preborn celebrates 20 years of saving babies. There's a moment right now that can save countless lives for years to come. An ultrasound machine doesn't just show a picture. It introduces a mother to her child. And many clinics don't have one, nor can they afford one. Preborn's goal is simple and urgent. Place an ultrasound machine in every clinic across America that needs one. If you have the means, would you consider a tax deductible gift of $15,000 to save countless lives. To donate securely, dial £250. Say the keyword BABY. That's £250 BABY. Or go to preborn.comunashamed. that's preborn.com unashamed. I love that idea that we should be. I think a lot of times men think like that's the wife's job is to be the generous person and to go and do the thing. But I mean, can I not be generous? Should I not be the first one that says, hey, let's, let's what? What can we get? What can we do in this situation? How can we help this situation? So we need to leave with generosity, which I thought was really good. 6 is protects contentment from greed. It kind of goes along with the same thing. And this kind of goes back to the rich young ruler J's. I have put my trust, if I put my trust in gold or said to pure gold that you are my security. And so I think another thing is men, sometimes, you know, especially like we're working, we're trying to be a provider, but man, we don't want greed to ever be the lead when it comes to family or anything else. I mean, our security shouldn't come from that. It has to come from the Almighty. And something greater than that doesn't mean we don't need to provide and earn a buck and work. We all should. We should be productive, but that shouldn't be our security. And so Lisa and I have talked a lot about that. Her favorite verse was just Philippians 4:13, which, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. In the context Paul was talking about in Philippians 4, that we find contentment in him. That's how we can do all things through us. We have to be able to find that contentment.

[Missy]

And he was in prison when he wrote that.

[Zach]

Exactly.

[Lisa]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And was joyful. And then the last one, which to me is probably the most important one, protects your future by being a person of forgiveness. He said, I have not allowed my mouth to sin by invoking a curse against my enemies. And even his own friends said some rough things to him. But he basically said, you know what? I want to be a man who's not vengeful. And the only way you don't have vengeance is if you're a person of forgiveness. And that protects your future because you can't have a relationship without. I'm wrong, I'm sorry. I love you. I mean, the nine hardest words you know, which means.

[Jason]

Okay, I want to add one.

[Zach]

All right, good.

[Jason]

Got a number eight. Because this job 19 has always fascinated me because. And I brought up that about the resurrection and what's going to happen. And so I don't know how you want to word the title of this. I guess I'm thinking, how do you protect your eternal relationship with God when things go wrong? Which this went dreadfully wrong. And it was, we live in an evil world. He was. I mean, the evil one who is not omnipotent and omnipresent, just decided to make it his ambition to destroy this. And sometimes in your marriage and sometimes in life, things are going to go wrong here. And we live in an evil world. I want to read this. I think this is profound. This is job 1917. He says, my Breath is offensive to my wife. Something you can probably understand. I am loathsome to my own brothers. Al. This is something, okay. Even the little boys scorn me when I appear. They ridicule me. All my intimate friends detest me. Those I love have turned against me. And you realize the power of this. You know, we're laughing, but it. And he says, I am nothing but skin and bones. Because you're right, Al. Those three points that happened to him, I have escaped with only the skin of my teeth. But then when he gets to verse 25. And this is what I found so profound when I thought of this. When you said, this is such an ancient book, and some say it's maybe the first actual scroll that was discovered. Listen to what Job had concluded way before Jesus ever died and was buried and resurrected. And all this, he's going through. Verse 25. I know that my redeemer lives and that in the end he will stand upon the earth.

[Zach]

Wow.

[Jason]

And after my skin has been destroyed, Listen to this. Yet in my flesh I will see God. I myself will see him with my own eyes. I and not another. How my heart yearns within me.

[Zach]

Wow.

[Jason]

I thought, oh, Job has figured out the resurrection in the worst possible, lowest pit.

[Missy]

To the Proverbs 31, woman. He was raised with those fundamental values taught in his home by word and by deed, by his father and his mother. That's how he knew that it was passed down from the beginning of time. And he is part of that.

[Jason]

Yeah. And we know the story about how God redeems him, but it's still painful. I know. You know, it was very, extremely difficult. But I just. I think in the middle of all this, how in the world did he ever figure all that out and have that perspective with everything going on? And I find it the whole key to the whole book, because I'm like, we do the same. We have no excuse. We know the gospel and we know things are going to go bad in this evil world. And I think that is the anchor that sometimes you just have to anchor down and get back to the simplicity of God's redemptive spirit.

[Zach]

But doesn't it show you too, in the end that God's way is always the best way? Because the evil one here threw everything he had at Job. But God said, I trust him to do the right thing. I mean, like. I mean, that's huge because, like, we look at the evil ones and, oh, man, it's scary. But look, it's also very. It gives you so much confidence because you Know, whatever Satan's throwing at you, God's way is always going to be better. And mainly because of the resurrection.

[Jason]

Well, I think it's a preview to that new regeneration that Jesus was speaking of. And even from the mouth of Job, this was written to be a shadow to what Jesus would accomplish. And I think you find it right in the middle of this spiritual warfare book that not only does God want to save us, he wants to save us forever. That's why he was so appalled at this question of, well, who's. You know, who's. Why, who's going to be the husband of this woman? I mean, when I think about our relationship, babe, way beyond just saying I do. I mean, we've become best friends. We've become brother and sister in the Lord. We become warriors for our kids. So all of a sudden, at the resurrection, I'm not going to know you?

[Zach]

No.

[Jason]

Oh, no. It's way beyond. And that's why he viewed it as that birth process. What we will be has not been made known.

[Zach]

That's why the brother and sister aspect is so much, even stronger than the husband and wife in that sense of what God does when he fuses you together. I remember we're almost out of. I remember Smith one time was teaching, and Lisa looked over at me because he said, you know, there'll be no marriage in heaven. And Lisa looked at me like, I don't want to go to heaven.

[Jason]

Well, you know what?

[Zach]

My.

[Jason]

As a man, I thought, man, I sure wanted to procreate up there. But I realized, just like the. Just like the birth process, that this is way beyond. You don't want.

[Zach]

And that's why I told Lisa. I was like, babe, we're still gonna be. I mean, we're best friends. We're. Trust me, we're going to know each other for eternity. We're soulmates.

[Jason]

The key line is, don't underestimate the power of God. It's way better.

[Jace]

Before we close, I do got to say one thing, though. The first person I ever heard, like, make that point that you just made, I want to procreate in heaven. I was in a group with our. One of our mentors, Bill Smith, and there was one guy in the room that complained about that was like, that. The fact that I'm not going to be able to procreate in heaven. And you know who that gentleman was?

[Jason]

My dad.

[Jace]

Your dad? Messy.

[Missy]

Oh, my dad.

[Zach]

Oh, yeah. He said that.

[Jace]

Larry said that. And I thought, okay, Larry. And he was about, you know, 70 years old when he said it.

[Jason]

I'm so thankful.

[Jace]

Well, babe, I had to drop that.

[Zach]

Jason. So glad.

[Jason]

No, no, I'm so glad. Glad that he's fired up about it, or you wouldn't even be here.

[Zach]

That's exactly right.

[Missy]

Okay, can we end this now?

[Zach]

All right, listen, Missy's uncomfortable. It's time to. Maddie, did we do good? All right, Maddie gave us a thumbs up. We'll see you next time. Thank you, ladies, for joining us for two podcasts.

[Jason]

They got embarrassing.

[Zach]

Oh, God, that was so funny. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed Podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.