← Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Ep 1295 | Willie Robertson Sparks Envy With a Fancy Gadget & ‘The Algorithm Is My Shepherd’
00:56:29
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- [00:01]
Zach
So good, so good, so good.
- [00:03]
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How did I not know Rack has Adidas? Why do we rack for the hottest?
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Jace
Still just so many good brands.
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- [01:02]
Zach
I am unashamed. What about you?
- [01:07]
Jill
So welcome back to Unashamed. I've been thinking a lot, I guess I mentioned the last podcast that we've been doing a lot of kind of grief ministry this week. And then at the same time I watched this episode of the revival show about dad. So I was kind of misty about that as well. Just, you know, thinking about his legacy. And so I've been thinking about a lot of his sayings. Jays and someone sent me one of our listeners, Noah, sent me a saying and Zach, we did a whole thing on Sue S. Lewis and I never heard this quote but I immediately attributed it to dad even though he never said it that I know of. And it says this. My prayer is that when I die, all of hell rejoices that I, I am out of the fight. C.S. lewis said that. Did you ever heard that quote?
- [01:59]
Zach
No. That's pretty good.
- [02:00]
Jill
I mean that's a good one. And, and I thought that I would say that probably about that would be a good one if dad had said it. But one thing is that dad did say J that I get tickled because Zach's always talking about AI and you know, he every everything is the, you know, future and how these things are going to go. That dad and I say this all the time. That dad said I am a low tech man in a high tech world. Oh, remember that was his Zach, I can't.
- [02:27]
Zach
I can't talk about AI Jill gets so mad at me.
- [02:30]
Jace
Well, I'm getting there. I'm getting there with Jill.
- [02:33]
Zach
Oh, I'm like, underground. I'm not even, like, I can't talk about it in the house.
- [02:37]
Jace
And so wasn't that a famous saying? Somebody said, I'm with her.
- [02:41]
Jill
Yeah, yeah, that was Hillary Clinton. Well, that was her campaign.
- [02:44]
Jace
No, I'm not with Hillary, but I'm with Jill.
- [02:48]
Zach
Oh, I don't, I don't talk about it like she.
- [02:51]
Jill
We.
- [02:52]
Zach
We get up every morning to have coffee and we have like a little time. We just, you know, talk about the word, talk about what's going on in our life. Just it's the only time our house sit in chaos. And so I was going through this whole thing about AI and where I saw it, you know, where. Where I saw it headed, how it could be utilized, how it could be dangerous. And, I mean, it was. She did not like that conversation. And we got the biggest fight. And so now we've decided that I'm. That's the one thing we were just not going about.
- [03:24]
Jace
Well, I got a sermon. I got a sermon for you. So I heard. I. I brought up that sermon on the last podcast about that I heard from Tyson on the good shepherd, and we, we talked about that. Well, he made a point, and I'm going to make it to you. You know, when you read that, most people, I think they're like, well, that happened a couple thousand years ago. We're in America. We're not shepherds outside of a few ranches in Texas, what are we talking? You know, people think it doesn't relate. And then you read the story and you're like, ooh, well, if I was a shepherd, this is pretty good. And when you look around talking about false teachers, but that principle about everyone's being shepherded by something, but he did something that, that I thought was very good. Toward the end of the sermon, since you brought up the AI because the most famous verse is Psalm 23. The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not be unwanted. You've heard it,
- [04:36]
Jill
it's been read more times and at more funerals than probably any passage in the Bible.
- [04:40]
Jace
So he did something that I thought was profound because, you know, this guy's in New York and I'm sure everyone is tech savvy there in his crowd, because he was saying, you think, oh, what's this got to do with anything? And he's like, I'm telling you, you're being shepherded. And he said, think about the Time that you spent that you spend scrolling on the Internet, all the social media, the Metaverse and Twitter and all this kind of stuff, Instagram. And so he said, what's happening is someone has figured out through technology to figure out when you ask these questions, or you go here or go there, well, then they shepherd you with content out. They call them algorithms. Just think about what they're doing here for money, basically trying to exploit you. This is the thief and the robber. So he said, I wrote what's happening with the 23rd Psalm in mind. So I'm going to read this. This is John Tyson. It's called cultural shepherding. The algorithm is my shepherd. I shall always want. It makes me doom scroll through digital pastures. It leads me beside the rapids of engagement. It activates my anxiety. It guides me along paths of monetization for its profit sake. Even though I walk through the valley of comparison, I will fear missing out. For you are always tracking me. Your notifications and your ads, they compel me. You prepare a curated feed before me in the presence of those I envy. You fill my head with validation. My anxiety overflows. Surely dissatisfaction and envy will follow me all the days of my life. And I will dwell in your monetized data analytics forever. The crowd burst into applause.
- [07:20]
Zach
The great punchline would have been that he would have followed up with, and I got that off a chat GPT. I'm kidding.
- [07:27]
Jace
Well, he said, it's good. He said that before he said, which, the camera didn't show it, but he said, how many of you have actually went to the whatever you called that ChatGPT. ChatGPT. And asked for counseling. He's like, raise your hand. We're in church. This is a safe place. I was thinking, you're filming it. It's not that safe. But I couldn't see the crowd, so I guess some people raised their hand. He was like, yep. He's like, I've done it. He said, just think about what you've done there. You've now given this machine the intel into your inner soul. And now they're gonna, they're gonna cater for, for money and, and extortion, whatever's coming next. You're giving them that power to lead you because that's what shepherding is. It leads you to where the shepherd wants you to go.
- [08:28]
Jill
Yeah.
- [08:29]
Jace
And I, I, I mean, it was kind of terrifying.
- [08:33]
Zach
Well, it is terrifying, but I think that and, and the algorithms even, I mean, we're not even talking about algorithms anymore. Now we're talking about machine learning. That can in real time. I mean, like what, like what AI is going to be able to do. It is, it is scary what it can do. Um, and I think that the fear that I have over that is mitigated by the fact that I do think there are incredible limitations when it comes to the human spirit and a soul, because it's a soulless entity, if you want to call it that, doesn't have a soul. And I think there's just certain things that you really can't replicate. You know how, like when you, you can go in to a service. I try to think of a way to describe this. You don't know if something's missing. Maybe you could watch something and you don't really. And you can enjoy it and you could be a part of it and you don't really know it's missing. But then when you're in the presence of the, of something that's profoundly like with a Holy spirit, where he is there, you know that he's there. And I think that's the difference. Like you may not, AI may be able to do things where you don't really know what's missing. But it's cannot compare when something is truly spirit filled. Because if it's truly spirit filled, you know that God is there and you know that God's moving in our midst. And I think that what these digital algorithms in the digital world has done, it has turned us into a product. So you're not only a consumer of the content, you're actually a product that that's being sold. It really is one of the most dehumanizing.
- [10:15]
Jace
Well, you know why? Because it's a love killer. Yeah. This goes hand in hand with people not being able to communicate and have relationships and live life and you know, go outside and fish together and have a conversation. It turns people into just self absorbed, mindless zombie robots where they're catering to, to your deep desires or trouble or what fascinates you and you're just sitting there wasting time hour after hour and days go by and it turns into weeks and months and then you, you know, you get out and you see other humans and you just get back on your phone.
- [11:07]
Zach
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- [13:12]
Jace
really appeal to me.
- [13:13]
Zach
But he has this vacuum sealer. It's called meet your maker M E A T free plug there and it's a vacuum sealer that you can vacuum, you can vacuum so all your meals and your leftovers. And so when I was with him, he was explaining to me cook dinner and he was putting all the leftovers and he then of course he's got a whole pitch on this thing. He got the freezer full and he's telling me you got to get the small bags. Whatever happened in that moment, like I started to covet that, that meet your maker vacuum sealer and then I started googling it. I wonder how much these Things cost. And when I tell you that I went down a rabbit hole and it's like, whatever, I, I have to have one of these things. Like, I started to desire a vacuum sealer. Never had, never had a want for that in my life. But the algorithm picks up on it and I mean it. Then it's feeding me all these other ones and then I'm deep diving. What's the. And I'm like, and, and you get to the end. Yeah, you want the best one. And, And I wanted the best one that money could buy. And then you're like, I would never be satisfied with these old normal vacuum sailors. I gotta have the best one. So the algorithm actually curated in me a desire for something. I was kind of, honestly, I was just kind of curious about it at first. How much does this cost? Looked it up, and from there, man, the Internet had its way with me. And, you know, I'll just, I won't tell you what ended up happening, but, you know, you can lose a lot of money on vacuum sequels, I'll say that.
- [14:39]
Jace
Do you lost a lot of money?
- [14:41]
Zach
Well, I mean, I'm just saying that I may or may not have overspent on something I did not need or really even want. But my covetous heart was, was, was fixated on this particular thing mainly because of the algorithm. Each one, the Bible does say each one is dragged away and enticed by his own ev. So maybe it did start with me, but I'm telling you that desire grew very, very strong the more that I looked online and started to research and started to think about things.
- [15:10]
Jace
Yeah, well, that was my point.
- [15:12]
Jill
The words that he used, I didn't write them all down, but of course some of them, I don't even really know what they mean, but I've heard them before in terms of the digital world. But, but I did pick up on the idea of shame and the idea of putting people down and which is such a big part of all the things, the platforms that have been mentioned. Supposedly it's to go and to find things that would be uplifting, but we know it always, almost always winds up the other way and it just kind of provides this anonymity for people to just say rotten, terrible things to other people and through the process as well, maybe things they would never have the, you know, guts to do to somebody's face. And so I just, it just, it definitely has become a place that the evil one for sure has figured out. It's, it's a way to pull people out of Relationship out of opportunity. But, I mean, to me, and we laugh about dad, but, I mean, he really did have the right solution. You don't have to be engaged in all that. You. You can unplug. You don't have to do it. It's not like it's.
- [16:22]
Zach
Yeah, well, I mean, good. Make good point. I mean, why, like, how to feel, like, the accusations and the amount of just anger that came at him throughout his. His life, particularly in the later years when he got famous, I don't think it ever bothered him. I. I really don't think that it bothered him.
- [16:43]
Jill
It would.
- [16:44]
Zach
Like, it would bother me. But I think it didn't bother him because he would say it. He said, if they're saying it about me, guess what? I'm not seeing it.
- [16:53]
Jill
I'm not reading it.
- [16:54]
Zach
I'm not reading it. And I think, man, he. I mean, like, it wasn't the world he was in. He had curated his world. That was the real world and the people that he was doing life with and the people in his church. I mean, he would have cared what we thought about him. And, you know, but he didn't care. He didn't care what. What was on the news. How liberating would that be?
- [17:13]
Jace
Well, another one of his sayings was, either you're being influenced or you're doing the influencing. And that was a very profound statement, which had an impact on me. I thought, there's no way to go through life and not be one or the other. You either be an influence, especially when you're in high school, you're either being influenced, or you're doing the influencing. Which was a major shift in my life when I decided to start dishing out the influence.
- [17:49]
Jill
Well, and that's even a word used, right? That's a big word. Now, in the monetization side of social media, are the influencers. Right? I mean, that's the. The idea. But it's mostly about money, you know, which is why Zach, in the last podcast, well, sometimes it's about power, but you did that. You read that passage out of first Peter 5, and I mean it. And it came up there about the idea of shepherding about for greed. And so it's just like anything else. I mean, when. When you get it down to that list again from Galatians 5, the Acts of sinful nature are obvious. When. When that becomes the voice, and then you find things in that list, that's when you know it's trouble.
- [18:34]
Zach
Yeah.
- [18:34]
Jill
And. And that's. That's when it ought to Be simple for you. When people are trying to take advantage of just. And you saw it, Zach, even in something like, there's nothing wrong with a me. I mean, you know, they're. They're great. But I mean, even anything simple can become something bad.
- [18:49]
Zach
Well, you start thinking about it. I want a new vehicle. And then you start looking on online and you certain. And then what happens is you go down the street and you're driving down the interstate and you've never noticed that particular car before. And now you. Everyone that drives by, you're like, they're everywhere. Yeah, yeah, you've been so. It is. I mean, I think that that's the whole thing about when we talk about the kingdom so much on this podcast. And it. Everything does matter. And the reason why it matters is because nothing is really neutral. Like we're being formed by what we behold. Whether you like it or not, you're being formed into a particular type of person. It's not a matter of if you're going to worship. That's the whole thing that I think people. I'm agnostic. No, you're not. Nobody's agnostic. No, no, nobody is. You're going to worship something. And the reason why you're going to worship something is because that is primarily what it means to be human is at the very center of what it means to be human is that you are a worshiper. So it's not a matter of if you'll worship. It's a matter of what or who you're going to worship. And you're going to worship, you're going to have affection for, you're going to love, you're going to desire, you're going to have a longing for whatever it is that you're beholding the most. And so that's why these rhythms are super important of life, you know? You know, I used to, you know, kind of make fun of the old. I went to one of those churches where it was all about just reading your Bible every day and saying three prayers and going to church. And I'm like, looking back now, mate, that was pretty good advice. You know, that wasn't a bad thing. You know, like to read your Bible every day. Say three parents go to church. Yeah. That's going to form you into a particular kind of person. That's a good thing.
- [20:27]
Jace
Well, I think the end goal, though, is we're to image Christ. He didn't call us just to sit on the sidelines and take care of ourselves. I tend to think people, because I saw the difference in my dad of just trying not to be influenced, like making a break from his past, which is why he moved to the middle of nowhere. I mean, he made the break and studied his Bible, but at some point he turned it around in that I'm going to do the influencing through the Holy Spirit and I'm going to declare which. Which tends to clean your life up and you have less time to be just sitting around scrolling or whatever.
- [21:12]
Jill
Well, and it's about the right side, right? Because I mean, it was dad that told Zach and I before we ever started this podcast. He said, you boys have got to figure out how to get me on this Internet. I don't know how to turn it on. I need to be on there. So, I mean, the very thing we're talking about that could be negative and terrible is also the thing. That's where you saw the John T. That's where you get your ties and sermons, Jace. And that's where people get this podcast.
- [21:36]
Zach
Well, you.
- [21:37]
Jace
You can create.
- [21:38]
Jill
It can be used for good.
- [21:39]
Zach
And by the way, I do want to say one thing. If you're not participating in these Hillsdale classes, you're missing out. These have been absolutely incredible to be a part of. We're doing a new one right now called Ancient Christianity. They're absolutely free to use. So all you got to do is go to unashamedforhillsdale.com we'll put the link in the show notes. But go sign up. It's for. It's free. And you could take the course and then we have the discussion around the course every Friday. And I. I've just found these to be extremely inspiring and educational and honestly just uplifting to our faith. So if you are wondering like about the history of the Christian faith and what was it like in Ancient Christianity, this is a course you want to take. I'm telling you, it is absolutely incredible. Once you guys be a part of that unashamed for hillsdale.com and go check it out and join us.
- [22:30]
Jace
But like Zach, I had a similar experience since he shared his vulnerable side on the meat maker or whatever. So I was thinking about this love section because he. Which is the problem, these leaders, it's a lack of love problem. People are. Just because you have a bunch of followers, even in a church type platform, are you doing it to. Are you being vulnerable just to get a lot of followers and make a lot of money? Because you don't know these people. You know for sure. There's always a question of motive. What are you Doing this for and the false teacher. It's hard to see because they're saying the right things, whatever, and giving you an image of what they want you to see. So I was thinking about this love problem and for some reason that Simon and Garfunkel song came into my head. That sound of silence.
- [23:30]
Zach
Because it's my old friend.
- [23:32]
Jace
Oh, yeah. Because it's all about, you know, a connection problem. Way before technology, it was like prophetic almost about we don't know how to hear, we don't know how to listen, we don't know how to connect. We just go through the motions and, and we're isolated. And so, you know, I listen to that song and I thought, yeah, boy, they had something going.
- [23:58]
Zach
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- [24:12]
Jace
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- [24:23]
Jill
I need some around my landscaping areas, so I'm super excited. I'm thinking about going for the sweet olives this time, which is the most fragrant, amazing tree that's out there, in my opinion.
- [24:34]
Zach
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- [25:41]
Jace
Well, in my little. I thought it was an algorithm, but now Zach can tell me what it. Whatever it is. Well, the next up was this dude that had a. Had a earring, like, but he had it below his lip. And I thought, man, you missed your ear by four inches here. I mean, it looked painful and it had the sound of silence and the name of his band was disturbed. And I looked over there and it was like 2 billion, maybe a billion and a half. I can look it up, but I don't want to look at it.
- [26:20]
Zach
I've heard it.
- [26:21]
Jace
And oh.
- [26:22]
Zach
Oh, I was one of the views.
- [26:25]
Jace
Well, I listened to it 10 times. I thought it was fantastic. I had in my mind what I thought it was going to be, and it was like, well, this, this. I like this furnishing better.
- [26:36]
Zach
You know, it just builds and you're like, it starts. By the end of it. You're wanting to run through a brick wall. I mean, I'm like, I don't. I mean, it was disturbing.
- [26:44]
Jace
It was really good. And I thought. I mean, it was over a billion. A billion. That's with a B. And I thought, which is why I listened to it. Then I thought, is this the most listened to song ever? So I did a search. I'm going down my rabbit hole now, Zach. I was like the top 10 most viewed songs on YouTube. That's what I put. Well, the top 10 songs came up. I had heard of none of them. So I clicked on number one and don't do this, because I didn't last longer than 30 seconds. One, it wasn't in English. Two, it was some kind of love song, but it was filled with gyrations and scantily clad women. And I thought, this is number one in our world. And it was almost 8 billion. Wow. I thought 8 billion people have listened to this because it's about love. End quote, air quotes. But it was not about love. It was about the physical side of sex. And, you know, that kind of romance, if you can call it that. And I thought, man, where are we at in our. In our culture here? Which kind of fits in with what we're talking about, with what love actually is. It's not that. It's not that
- [28:18]
Jill
you hit it in that John 10 from the last podcast about the idea of. Of really having a care for sheep and not doing it for just money or because you're paid, but because you care. I'll tell you another good example of it. You guys have given some is. I see it down here. And it's the, and we've talked about this before, Jace. It's the o h o a mindset. And you know, we kind of had a running thing on the. The show about that because, you know, but it wasn't super serious. Although Jace did have a little incident there. He shared.
- [28:50]
Jace
Now I was dead serious.
- [28:52]
Jill
I know you are, but I'm saying we kind of made fun of it. Yeah, but I'm telling you down here it's all serious all the time. These people, they come from all across the fruited plains and they, they retire to these communities like the one I'm sitting in today. These retirement areas and pretty places or even where Zach is. And their whole thing is they want to get on a board of people because that's the only community they have a lot of times is in their little neighborhood and, and they want to run your life. I mean, I'm telling you, these people, I mean like so much so that I did a. I pulled a field. I was like, get me out of here. I want to. The next place we live cannot have an hoa. It cannot have it. I'm not going to do it. And the difference was is because some people there have the right idea. You want your neighborhood to look nice, you want to have nice things for people to have. And because they love people. We're all people. We're people doing it together. But it's not self rule. But there always be one or two that want to exercise power. And it's like we got our power. So we're going to send you the ugly emails. We're going to come by your house and we're going to tell you if your garbage can is, you know, six feet from where it's supposed to just over and over and over all this stuff and it's. It's about just this thirst for power over people's lives. And that's what I see here. As much as the greedy side. A lot of it is just people want to rule over other people. It's just the human nature. And some people, it's not everybody, but man, they can, they can make your life miserable and you finally just have to get out. There's just no, you can't win. So it's like I got to get away. And it's a shame but. But it's. It's exactly the same sort of spirit and it's because of their, their power method.
- [30:36]
Zach
Well, the. That's an interesting one kind of if you want to compare the two of, of real love versus what Jace was watching on YouTube. Yeah, that, that, that the con, it's the consumptive love. It's not love, but it's like consumption, like if you like pornography is about consumption. It's about consuming the other, other person. Consuming that, that sexual experience as an experience, not as the mingling of souls or the union of people. It's not that. It's not in a covenant. Right. Fidelity, kind of a covenantal relationship. It's not that. It's, it's more like I'm just going to consume, you know, get what I can get from you. It's, it's take, it's not give. And the other picture, which is not going to be the number one song on YouTube or any algorithm for that matter because it takes a lot more time to develop. It is real love. It's more of the sitting on the porch at 80 years old with the woman you've been married to for 50 years and you have a legacy and you've got 15 grandkids and you've got, you know, they got kids coming and that's a different kind of picture. Well, that story that, that, that the thing cannot be experienced with the, with a, with a click of a button or the snap of a finger. I can't click with a mouse on an image and have the experience of the 80 year old man and woman on the front porch of a, of a home they've lived in and a life they've built over the last 50 to 60 years. And that's why the default position for us is going to be let's go to the consumptive model because it's easier, it's quick and we can bypass all the processes and I can get kind of the thing, I can kind of get a good dopamine hit from it, but it's not sustaining. And it's one of the reasons why I think we're so miserable in this generation. It's one of the reasons why this is the most anxious and depressed generation in the history of the world.
- [32:40]
Jill
Yeah.
- [32:40]
Zach
It's because they are their brains, our brains are fried with dopamine hits by shortcutting the process, missing out on real intimacy because we want this fake imposture of, of these, of these algorithms that it's giving us. And I think the key difference between the two is one is about consuming and the other one is, is the life of Christ. To lay down your life based on.
- [33:06]
Jill
Think about this. All of the think about all of the false gods that have risen up in this generation. Now, you talk about worship earlier. I see worship with some of these causes, cultural causes that wind up being protests is what they're called, you know, because that. That fits in the Constitution. But it's really the worship of a new God. It's whatever the call. And it could be anything. I mean, it could be all the range of stuff that's going on. But, I mean, they rally, they sing, they chant, they. They own bylaws. I mean, they community together and plan these things, and it has become their version of God.
- [33:47]
Zach
And all the new gods that you're talking about are just versions of the old gods that aren't God.
- [33:54]
Jill
Exactly.
- [33:54]
Jace
Ironically, I got this from the Internet, Zach. But when you gave your little spiel about pornography and this fleshly love, and based on the number one song viewed. Just listen to. This is the best explanation of marriage. This is Genesis 2. 24. That is the explanation that they're given. They're kind of teasing you there. You want to know how to explain marriage. I thought this was very clever. So they have the verse here. This is why a man. And then they'll have a little section. A man. And they have above it, maturity. It's not a boy. A man who is mature, leaves. There's a transition. So you got maturity, a transition. His father and mother. Well, now you have a model of a complete family, because the man left his father and mother, which would be a model of complete family, and becomes. Which would be a new family. Becomes attached. Becomes attached. Yeah, that's part of the new family. To his wife. His wife, a complement that completes. And they become. Which is a process of learning, friendship, and trust. They become one flesh, which is deep intimacy between two people. If you break that verse down and have all those comments and think about what that is, it becomes beautiful. And that was God's idea and God's plan. Genesis 2. 24.
- [36:04]
Jill
And that's the exact verse that Jesus quoted. And I think it's Matthew 19. When asked about marriage, you know, I mean, that's. That's the one thing he said. He just went back to the standard.
- [36:17]
Jace
Here's the idea.
- [36:18]
Jill
He said the ultimate. He said the ultimate thing about it. Here. Here's what it looks like. So any. Anything other than that is not what he had in mind.
- [36:30]
Zach
We love our friend Tim Tebow, who was on the podcast recently talking about his new book, if the Tree Could Speak. And it's such an important book, guys. I mean, I'm telling you Stop what you're doing. Just listen for a minute. You ever think about this? We all know the story of the cross. It's very common story that we've all heard our whole lives. But what if you could hear it from a totally different perspective? What if the cross itself could tell you exactly what it experienced that day? Well, that's actually the idea behind a new book from our friend Tim Tebow. It's called if the Tree Could Speak. Jase, I think you got a copy right there on the table.
- [37:00]
Jace
I was in the airport yesterday and a Florida Gator fan came up because he had a jersey on. And I said, if the tree could speak. And he looked around and there was a potted plant beside me. I said, not that tree. Which led to about a 15 minute Jesus presentation, which is why I love this book. It's a great conversation starter.
- [37:22]
Zach
It's very well written, it's beautifully illustrated. It makes you slow down and actually feel the weight of what Jesus did for us. And if you've heard the Easter story a thousand times, which a lot of this audience, I know you've heard it, this one will challenge you and it'll deepen your faith. So what you get from this book will stick with you long after you put it down. And you're going to want to pick it up year after year after year to prepare for the Easter celebration as we remember what Christ actually did on the cross. So step inside the story, hear the witness, and experience Easter like never before. Check out Tim Tebow's new book, if the Tree Could Speak on Amazon. That's if the Tree Could Speak by Tim Tebow. Order your copy on Amazon today. I'm telling you, you're not going to regret it.
- [38:04]
Jace
Well, people read it so many times that they just don't think about what it actually says. Yeah, it's very profound and it works.
- [38:13]
Jill
Yeah, well, yeah.
- [38:15]
Zach
I think that's why it's so important as we think about the, the trajectory of what. Where we're headed as humans is. We're trying to actually live in our telos, in our design, intent, purpose that God has for us. And so I pray this all the time. I pray that God. Would you, Would you not let me, like, shape my theology of how I want it to be, but how, how it actually is? Would you align my will with your will? Would you align my, my understanding of your word with reality? Because what happens is, is that you. We all have our little biases, man. I mean, if I was. I mean, if I, if I wrote the Bible as an example. Here's what I'll tell you. It would not be the same Bible that you read. It would be a lot different if I wrote it. If I wrote the Bible, it's going to have all the things I want in it. And the problem is, is I don't really know what I want. And we talked about that earlier. I mean, I thought I wanted the, the meat Saver. You know, I really thought that that was going to like, do something for me. But how many things have you thought that you wanted that once you got it, you're like, man, I never wanted that. Or especially when it. When you look in your garage, like I have recently and literally hauled off a dump truckload full of junk that I won't say who, but somebody I'm related to that her name rhymes with Bill bought on Amazon. And it's just. It ends up in the garage and you're like, all this crap. I'm like, I never wanted this crap. And at the time, you know, we thought we wanted it, but we didn't want it. And so I can't really trust my own desire. I really can't. And I think that that's what the. That that is, by the way. It's one of the, the, the. The ideas of hell is you're left to your own vices, right. And think about to be in that state of just. I'm left to the thing I think I want and I'm actually missing out on heaven, which heaven is when your will aligns with what God's will is. That. That's the. That's where we're headed with all this. I think that's hard for us to
- [40:13]
Jace
get because
- [40:16]
Zach
the shortcut, the easy bypass, let's reroute this thing and give me the. I want the outcome of what I'm after, but I don't want to put in the process to get outcome. And when you shortcut that, then what you're essentially doing is you're rerouting your desires and you're fundamentally shaping them into very. What's the word I'm looking for? Shallow and empty and hollow desires. That's what you're shaping your desire to be.
- [40:45]
Jill
Yeah. And that's why you have to trust in him. I found myself quoting this verse a lot this week and what we've been doing with grieving families and widows because, you know, everybody's asking why is sud. Situation that happened? And there's, you know, and I knew the, the problem is even in initial shock, it's it's hard to know why, because it's a trust issue. But I've quoted this verse all week in prayer and also with people, and it was the one from 3:19. This, then, is how we know we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence. Because I've been talking to a bunch of troubled hearts this week whenever our hearts condemn us, for God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything, and that's the thing that sets it apart. And I've really stressed that this week, because we don't know everything. We can't put all those pieces together. And when it's death and when it's, you know, accidents and when it's things like this, I mean, it is so hard for us as human beings. But you said it, Zach. When you think about the will of God and trying to live in his will and trust that he knows what he's doing. When we worship him and when we love him and we know he loves us, then we make it through whatever the situation might entail when our hearts are not at rest and when our hearts are condemning and when we're unsure about people and, you know, where they stood with Christ and all the things that come up, you know, in these tough situations. So, you know, the love of God does make the difference. So should I read this next section where we're here at the end of the podcast so we can do it? Yeah, I want to do next time.
- [42:22]
Jace
Well, I wanted to in the first verse of the next section. So when he gets to 1 John 4. 7, he says, dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God, which is profound. Chapter four and verse seven. Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. I just want to say one thing about that. If you're kind of keeping up with what he's talking about, he keeps bringing up this we are children. First John 2:28. Then it's like when he gets to the end of chapter three after he's already defined love in 3:10, this is how we know what love is. Jesus Christ laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. And when he gets to 3:10, those who obey his commands, I mean, this is 21, live in him and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us. We know it by the Spirit he gave us. And then we talked about that little section in the world about recognizing the Spirit of the Antichrist, who's not acknowledging that Jesus came from God in the flesh. But then he brings up this idea about being born again, which is a common theme here. He also said it in the last verse of chapter two, when it says, if you know that he's righteous, and you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him. So he's making a point there. And it led me back to kind of doing a rabbit hole when it comes to doing right and wrong. Of in the garden, here's Adam and Eve. They're having fellowship with God himself. He's walking along in the garden. He's giving them everything because he loves them. There's one thing they can't do. And it's described as partaking in the tree of good and evil. And the only reason I'm bringing this up is this is why I think he's using the reference to that we are children of God. Because what I found fascinating, if you look up all the verses after that of this contrast of good and bad, I'll give you an example. In Deuteronomy, chapter one, it's kind of a review of God leading the Israelites out of the wilderness to the promised land. It's kind of a review, and if you just pick up the story, you can read the whole story in your own time. But if you go down to verse about 32, it says, in spite of this, you did not trust in the Lord your God, who went ahead of you on your journey in fire by night and a cloud by day, to search out places for you to camp and to show you the way you should go. When the Lord heard what you said, he was angry and solemnly swore, no one from this evil generation shall see the good land. I swore. And you got to remember what was Israel called? The children of God. And he's trying to lead them, but they won't trust him. And it's this whole idea about the shepherd, about who you're listening to. They're all with each other, griping and complaining about the journey, which is not unlike what's happening in our life today. Just journeying through. Who are you listening to? But there's a profound verse here that I want to bring out. Verse 37 says, because of you, the Lord became angry with me also and said, you shall never enter it either, but your assistant Joshua will enter it. Encourage him, because he will lead Israel to inherit it. And then verse 39, and the children that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know and here's that phrase, good from bad. The same command given to Adam and Eve, the tree of the knowledge of good and bad. And here it's in the context of children who do not yet know good from bad. They will enter the land, I will give it to them and they will take possession of it. And the point I wanted to make is because there's a lot of religion out there that teaches that children are bad because Adam and Eve sinned. They took of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. And that's never set right with me because I thought, no, Kit, when you look at a baby, I'm not thinking there's nothing bad about a baby when it's born. Which is why I think John and it's filled in the New Testament of this metaphor on we're the children of God now being born again.
- [47:48]
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- [48:17]
Jace
And that's just one example. And I mean if you want to look at another one in Isaiah chapter seven. And this is a prophetic prediction about Jesus coming from a virgin in the context, the immediate context of what Isaiah was going through. But listen to this. This is Isaiah 7:14. Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son and will call him Immanuel. I know who that's talking about, but listen to the next verse. He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right. Same little concept you say, are you sure? The next verse for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, and then he gives this prediction about what's going to happen to the land, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste. And I looked this up in the scholarship and they said, yep, this happened about three years later. The Lord will bring on you and your people and on the house of your Father, a time unlike any since Ephraim broke away from Judah. He will bring the King of Assyria. So I said all that to say God has given us a way to start over and meanwhile debunked this idea that somehow just because there's sin in the world, that babies know right from wrong. I mean, it's pretty evident to me. This is overwhelming to me once you see this. So I wanted to kind of bring that up because when you think, well, yeah, we are living in a world that's bad and what are we going to do about it? Well, I got good news. God came into the world so you could be born again and start over and be included in this love circle of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit and be that person. I mean, why would he keep bringing this concept up about being born of God, being from God, being children of God? And so I wanted to make that point and see what y' all thought about it.
- [50:36]
Jill
No, I love it and agree with it. And I think the picture you painted earlier, even in Genesis 2, which was before the aid of that tree, is that picture you're describing because you said something new happens with this family. And that's the way I describe it when I do a wedding. And I actually got it from Tommy Emman. He said what, you know, before a wedding he's about to do. He said what we're about to witness is a birth, a birth of a new family because a man and a woman are choosing life and then they have an opportunity to then procreate and bring more life because there will be birth of new life into that family. And so the concept from a physical humanity standpoint is there. But you're right, it's exactly what he describes from spiritual connotation as well. And this would. When John, I mean, John 3, when Jesus was talking to Nicodemus, that's why he talked about this, this new birth concept. And so John, at the moment when that was happening, I'm sure John had no idea what Jesus was talking about. Yeah. Now, you know, 90 year old John, he's got it. He knows exactly what he's talking about.
- [51:43]
Jace
Well, we brought up the love thing and the sex thing. And the reason I went down that rabbit hole is, you know, I've shared Jesus with a lot of people and some of them have been into all kind of sexual sins. And I hadn't had a lot of success bringing them to the Lord. I mean, I shared the good news of Jesus. It's not up to me anyway. But the last person I shared with who did come to the Lord, who was involved in that sin, asked a Made a profound statement. And I wish I would have thought of this before because what he said to me was. He said, well, there's nothing I can do about it. I was born that way.
- [52:26]
Jill
I said, can be reborn.
- [52:28]
Jace
I got some good news for you. You can be born again. Now, look, that was the first time a tear showed up. So I was like, forget the theology on however you're rationalizing what you're doing. I'm just, I'm going to tell you what the Bible says. You can be born again. And he was like, I think I will. I was thinking, we'll deal with that later. Let's start over. And that's why I wanted to bring this up, because he keeps bringing it up. I mean, I think we minimize what Jesus did on the cross and his resurrection by getting so caught up in all the details of why we're screwed up and why we do bad things. And when it's obvious, it either comes from our own decisions or the evil one, or someone abused us when we were kids, which helped contribute to us making bad decisions. But the whole reason Jesus died on a cross and was resurrected so that we could start over and be born again and be the children of God. And I think it eerily is then reminiscent to when Adam and Eve, there was an innocence there that the evil one came in because they. And he took advantage of that vulnerability. I mean, did God really say they were innocent? And here we go, they have that decision to make and it's the wrong one.
- [54:03]
Jill
Well, and just like we see children grow and mature into, you know, young men and young women, we see that with our own children. We're watching it happen and then become parents and then are going to go through the same process. Process we did. We see the same thing with people in their spiritual walk. You'll see people who have been plagued by something who's, like you said, just some sin, maybe, maybe not even their own sin, maybe it was a sin against them. And then we see them finally surrender and be reborn. And then we watch that person grow. And it's amazing to see that the person they were compared to the person they became compared to the person then that they keep growing into and help other people. And so it really is the whole process.
- [54:51]
Jace
I'll just close with this. The reason I wanted to do that, because when you get to verse 10, it's hard to wrap your head around when he says, this is love. Not that we love God, but that he loved us. And my point is, you can't read enough. 10 step books and 13 ways to know Love and go to the Internet and figure out you got to have the the love of God in you. And most of the times that means you got to start over. Which is why you surrender and say, I can't figure this out. And when the love of God gets in you, all of a sudden, now you have the power to start experiencing loving relationships.
- [55:33]
Jill
Yeah, it changes everything. All right, Good word. We'll see you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.