Ep 1296 | The Robertsons Master the Secret to Being Completely Unoffendable

Summary

Unashamed with the Robertson Family

Episode 1296: The Robertsons Master the Secret to Being Completely Unoffendable
Date: March 24, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this faith-filled, lively episode, the Robertson family digs deep into what it means to become truly “unoffendable” through the lens of scripture, personal stories, and honest humor. They discuss the Christian call to radical love, being uncancellable in a culture that loves to cancel, and how the roots of unoffendability stem from knowing your identity in Christ. The Robertsons also weave together threads from church road trips, duck hunting tales, and theological explorations, focusing especially on Mark 12 and 1 John 4's teachings about love, sacrifice, and living above offense.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Life on the Road and the Red-State, Blue-Dot Dynamic (01:06-05:38)

• Jace recaps a recent trip to Illinois, describing how the church “The Pasture” grew in the midst of COVID restrictions by holding services outdoors (“It’s literally in a giant pasture.” [03:03]). He makes a light-hearted but pointed declaration about Illinois:
  • [03:53 | Jace]: “Illinois is a red state with two large blue dots.”
  • The crowd resonated—with laughter and applause—revealing how people in “red” rural areas feel marginalized by “blue” urban centers.
• Camouflage as church gifts and the welcoming culture of Midwestern hunters are highlighted.

Duck Hunting, Family, and Self-Deprecating Humor (05:38-10:21)

• The brothers riff on their own personalities by categorizing themselves as different types of Labradors:
  • [08:08 | Jace]: “You and dad are the black labs… the go-getters when it comes to duck hunting. Me and Jeff are yellow labs… the ones that when an ice storm hits, the black lab takes off and gets stranded for four days in the woods.”
  • Willie is dubbed “the chocolate lab: kooky and crazy—you don’t know what he’s going to do.”
• Discussion on being unoffended when stereotypes or slurs (like “redneck”) are used:
  • [10:03 | Zach] "Would you be offended if someone called you a redneck?"
  • [10:07 | Jason]: “We’re the only people left on the planet that are unoffendable, the rednecks, because they make fun of us, and I don’t care.”

The Biblical Secret to Being Unoffendable (10:21-13:19)

• Jason segues into the spiritual principle: “If you’re right with the Lord, I think you’re unoffendable... He said people are going to try to offend you just for following me—so why are we shocked?” [10:21]
• Jace references the late Phil Robertson’s book “Uncancelable,” connecting Christian unoffendability with being redeemed (“Once your sins have been canceled at the cross…who cares who tries to cancel you after that?” [10:38]).
• Jason discusses Colossians 2:14-15 as biblical evidence for the believer’s secure, unoffendable identity.

Greatest Commandments: Love God and Love Your Neighbor (13:19-18:36)

• The family transitions into a rich Bible study on Mark 12:28-34 (the “Greatest Commandments” passage).
  • [14:12 | Jason]: “He asked him for one [commandment], …then he said, the second is this … love your neighbor as yourself.”
  • [15:57 | Jace]: “It feels like there’s a little bit of condescending tone in this man’s voice.”
  • Jesus' response, “You are not far from the kingdom of God,” prompts reflection on what it means to be close but not yet joined to the kingdom.
• Zach: “The way of the kingdom is out-going and sacrificial. Self-preservation is the world’s way; God’s kingdom is about laying down your life, and it’s vindicated through resurrection.” [17:19]

Surrender, Faith, and Full Participation in God’s Kingdom (18:36-22:25)

• Parallels are drawn between the teacher of the law and the “rich young ruler” (Mark 10):
  • Jace: “He was close ... but he had a heart issue … you can say the words, but do you really mean it? Do you really believe it? Is it really in there?”
  • Zach: “You have to submit your will to God’s will ... it’s not begrudging submission, it’s trust.” [21:17]
• The group emphasizes that true transformation comes not from law-keeping, but from loving trust and surrender to God.

Old Testament Foundations of God’s Love and the Trinity (23:37-41:05)

• Jason and Zach discuss 1 John 4’s teaching that “love comes from God”—and how this is rooted throughout both Old and New Testaments.
• Jason explains the Jewish struggle with verses describing two divine figures (e.g., Daniel 7:13’s “one like a son of man coming with the clouds of heaven”), which Christians understand as a prefiguration of Christ.
• Zach brings up Philo, an ancient Jewish philosopher, discussing the concept of God’s “Word” (Logos) present before the incarnation of Christ:
  • “...Philo says ... only after the pattern of the second deity, who is the word of the Supreme Being...” [36:23].
• The conversation reveals how the Trinity and God’s eternal love were foreshadowed, not invented, in scripture.

Generational Curses, Marriage, and the Role of Love (41:05-44:55)

• The Robertsons discuss how spiritual and emotional health—or damage—passes generationally, especially through marriage and family breakdown.
  • Jace: “It’s always generational curses ... things that happened to them when they were kids...first instinct is to do what you’ve seen and keep the curse going. But you have to be the curse breaker.” [43:40]
  • True rebirth is both individual and communal, rooted in Christ.

Song of Solomon: Godly Love Without Shame (45:41-50:54)

• Jason expresses intrigue with the Song of Solomon, rarely taught in church due to its sensuality, but “a collection of poems about love between a man and a woman ... with no shame—true love, physical, emotional, spiritual, without shame.”
  • The brothers laugh about Phil Robertson quoting Song of Solomon at the dinner table—“her breasts are like gazelles” [49:19]—and the awkwardness it brings.
• They note the uniqueness of the Bible’s holistic vision of love amid a culture that’s obsessed but confused about it:
  • “Out of the 100 million love songs, the Bible is the only place that captures what love is.” [50:23 | Jason]

Biblical Word Study: Agape & the Ultimate Definition of Love (50:54-End)

• The group dives into the Greek word “agape,” noting how Jesus’ life and sacrifice gave new meaning to a previously rare term for selfless, sacrificial love:
  • “He literally redefined an obscure Greek word to be used profoundly from his experience on the planet.” [51:48 | Jason]
• They reference 1 John 3:16, Galatians 2:20, and Ephesians 5—each rooting the definition of love in Christ’s self-giving sacrifice.
• [54:33 | Jason]: “The first mention of ‘love’ in the scriptures is Genesis 22:2: ‘Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac’—and do what? Give his life up. Isn’t that interesting?”
• As the episode ends, Jace promises a continuation of this conversation in the next episode.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [03:53 | Jace]: “Illinois is a red state with two large blue dots.”
• [10:07 | Jason]: “We’re the only people left on the planet that are unoffendable, the rednecks, because they make fun of us, and I don’t care.”
• [10:38 | Jace]: “Once your sins have been canceled at the cross…who cares who tries to cancel you after that?”
• [17:19 | Zach]: “The way of the kingdom is actually the way of…the cruciform life. It’s not consumptive, self-centered. It’s out-going and sacrificial.”
• [21:17 | Zach]: “But before anything else, you said submitted, you have to submit your will to God’s will.”
• [24:00 | Jason]: “Love comes from God.”
• [38:31 | Jace]: “They accused Christianity of being atheists because they didn’t have statues of their gods... We have no statues of him because he became a man.”
• [43:40 | Jace]: "You have to be the curse breaker...be the one that says, no, we want to be reborn."
• [49:19 | Jace/Jason]: “Her breasts are like gazelles… and people are like, oh, we can’t talk about that! It’s in the Bible.”
• [51:48 | Jason]: “He literally redefined an obscure Greek word to be used profoundly from his experience on the planet.”
• [54:33 | Jason]: "Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac – and do what? And give his life up."

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Key Timestamps

• 01:06-05:38 – Illinois road trip, church in a pasture, “red state blue dot” dynamic
• 05:38-10:21 – Duck hunting personalities, the “lab” analogy, self-deprecating humor
• 10:21-13:19 – Transition to spiritual unoffendability, “uncancelable” identity in Christ
• 13:19-18:36 – Bible study: Mark 12’s “greatest commandment” and close-but-not-in kingdom living
• 18:36-22:25 – Surrender, trust, and full participation in the kingdom
• 23:37-41:05 – Old Testament allusions to Trinity, prefiguration of Christ, and the Word
• 41:05-44:55 – Marriage, generational curses, and being “the curse breaker”
• 45:41-50:54 – Song of Solomon, agape, and the true biblical vision of love
• 50:54-end – Agape word study, love as self-giving sacrifice, first biblical mention of love

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

True to their Southern humor and casual storytelling, the Robertsons blend ribbing, biblical literacy, and unvarnished testimony. The tone remains practical, earthy, and hope-filled, underscoring that rootedness in Christ—knowing your sins are canceled and choosing sacrificial love—are the antidotes to a thin-skinned, easily offended world. The episode is an encouraging, wisdom-packed invitation to radical love, resilience, and faith in action.

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For Next Episode:
Stay tuned as the Robertsons continue their exploration of biblical love and its life-changing implications.

Transcript

[Jason]

So good, so good, so good.

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[Jason]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Jace]

Welcome back to Unashamed. Man, it's. It's been hard for me to get back in place here today, boys. I appreciate the late recording time. I didn't get until about 3am this morning. It's about 11 as we're filming. It's one of those deals that's, you know, y' all know, y' all fly around the country. It's just now like everything is off. Like, it's. It's either weather, it's. It's spring break. The government's not working tsa. There's not enough agents. There's this, there's that, there's blah, blah, blah.

[Jason]

Oh, it's life.

[Jace]

At least it's life. It's life. It's life in the air, Jason. It's life. Fly hurtling across the country in a aluminum tube. And it's not that pleasant, especially when it's 3am but by God's grace, we got here and at least we're able to. To let her rip. But we had a great event this weekend in the state of Illinois, and I've been back and forth there a lot. I don't know what the deal is, but we seem to be going up there about every other month. And I made a declaration yesterday, Jay, because you kind of know your audience. And every time I mention something about, you know, rednecks in Illinois, and, I mean, there's a lot of hooping and hollering because these are. These are farmers and hunters. And I mean, this church was like, full of camo. In fact, they gave us camo gifts that like, has the name of the church on the. On the jacket. And I don't think I've ever got, like, really nice camo as a gift with the church's name on it. And the church is called the Pasture. And it's literally. It's literally in a giant pasture. I mean, I was just driving through this farmland. All of a sudden it just kind of rises up out of the. Out of the pasture. And the story was that this church back during COVID this pastor who's there, and he's been there six years, you know, they just, they were so locked down because it's Illinois, you know, they're run by everybody in Chicago and Springfield. So these people are just like us, you know, they're just hunters, good old folks, believers. Well, they couldn't meet, you know, so they got it. So somebody had the ide just meet out in this pasture. And so I think the first Sunday they had about 20 that braved it and came out there. And six years later, they got about a thousand people that meet there. But it's very. It remind me a lot of our church. Just a lot of grace based, you know, people coming to Christ. The pastor's great, had dinner with him. But I made a declaration on Sunday morning because we did a marriage refresh all day on Saturday. And they were great. I mean, they were into it, they were listening. And I mean, because we did like three hours of material counting the Q and A, and that's hard all day. But they were just, they were troopers. They did awesome. And so Sunday I preached. And so I got up there and it was packed. You know, I said, oh, I'm. I'm gonna make a declaration today. I don't normally open this way, but I've been thinking about it and look, it's just one man's opinion, so, you know, I could be wrong. Take it for what it's worth, but I'm declaring that Illinois is a red state with two large blue dots. And when I said that, I mean, it's like the. The lid that was about to pop out. I mean, it was such a raucous reaction. So I'd hit it. You know, sometimes you just hit the right tone and that's the way they feel. They feel trapped in their own state. And they. And they love being there. They're there for generations. They're farmers. They have these huge deer and they duck hunt and all this, but then these, like, two blue dots just control them. It's just, it's sad to me, but, you know, it is what it is. But I have declared Illinois a red state minus the two blue dots.

[Jason]

So.

[Jace]

Well, and it went, and it went over great with the pastor, so I don't know if that's going to go anywhere for one day. It got me off to a good start.

[Jason]

I was thinking, you know how the

[Jace]

open, Jason, you always try to get like an open. Sometimes they don't go over, but sometimes they do.

[Jason]

Yeah. Well, made me think of Psalm 23. You know, the Lord is my. Yeah. To the pastures.

[Jace]

The pastures rest sheep. It's sheep and shepherds, which we talk about quite a bit on this podcast. So, anyway, the great folks up there, thank you all for an awesome weekend. They're great.

[Jason]

Zach, have you been missing us?

[Zach]

I have. What have we been? Let's see. I was here last week. I feel like we took a few days off.

[Jason]

No, I think you took a few days off, but that's okay. Yeah, we survived.

[Zach]

I was here last week.

[Jace]

We were still hamsters hacking the wheel. You just, you took, you flew out.

[Zach]

No, I was here here. I, I, I was here last week. It was week before I, I had to go to Nashville to see a man about a horse. And. Yeah, now I'm back. Oh, you know what? I will tell you this. So we, we went to Kings, not Kings Port. We went to Bristol, Tennessee to hear the kids play with Larry Fleet. And when I tell you that, I Bet there were 40 unashamed fans that, that, that came to the show. So apparently, Bristol, Tennessee, that's our, that's our stomping ground. We got, we have a lot of listeners in East Tennessee, and a lot of them showed up at the concert. So I got to meet a lot of you out there. That was, it was awesome seeing all the, you know, all you guys from East Tennessee. We had a good time. The kids play. We took about 40 people from our church over there, and because it's only about an hour and a half from where we live here, so. And apparently they've got duck hunting in east Tennessee. Jase, there's a, They've got quite a few duck hunters there. I didn't even know that was a thing there. But you don't think about as much

[Jace]

on the east side. Yeah, I wouldn't, because the west side is like, you know, that's where Real Foot Lake. And, well, I Know there.

[Zach]

I mean that.

[Jace]

Because all that area. Yeah, that's.

[Zach]

That's some of the duck hunting around.

[Jason]

But did you give them the ultimate tip in how to be a successful duck hunter?

[Zach]

I didn't know the ultimate tip.

[Jason]

What is it? It would have worked. Move west. Because that west side of Tennessee is good.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jason]

The closer you get to the Mississippi River.

[Jace]

Well, it's more mountainous on the east, right, Zach?

[Zach]

Yeah, it is. And I, When I asked him, I said, y'.

[Jace]

All.

[Zach]

Y' all kill any?

[Jason]

And then.

[Jace]

Well, you know, we.

[Jason]

We used to.

[Zach]

We used to. Well, I, I got spoiled on that little ice trip we got in on. Jace.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Getting stuck down there with the ice. I'm. I'm forever ruined. Bear had. I mean, that's, you know, that was horrible for a young man to have that kind of experience right out of the gate. Now he's going to be, you know, he'll never, he'll never have a. Yeah,

[Jason]

but he's got a lot of years here. Yeah, but he's got a lot of years to chase that. You, on the other hand, not so much.

[Zach]

No, my years are fading quickly. So are fade.

[Jace]

Now, I used to. Jason, my. I use the ice apocalypse thing about y' all hunting in my. I do a little like a black lab, yellow lab, chocolate lab comparison with the brothers and our family and dad inside. So use you as the. You and dad are the black labs, you know, which are the go getters when it comes to duck hunting. And I said, you know, black labs, because me and Jeff are yellow labs. I said, you know, they're the ones that go. They're the ones that when an ice storm hits, everybody's like hunkering down with their families. Nope. The black lab takes off and gets stranded for four days in the woods. So. So that they can whack them and stack them. That's thinking like a black lab.

[Jason]

Well, the fact that you put you and Jeff still in the lab category is kind of shocking. I thought you were gonna say we're still labs.

[Jace]

Your labs are great service pets.

[Jason]

Wiener dogs.

[Jace]

They take care of kids, you know.

[Jason]

Yeah. You gotta go out there to be classified as a lab owl.

[Jace]

I was there opening day, Jason. That's right. That accounts my yellow lab status. And then Willie's the chocolate lab because they're kind of kooky and crazy and you don't know what they're going to do.

[Jason]

I talked to him today. He. There was an event in Anchorage, Alaska, that I declined just because I had so many events in this, and it's Alaska. Oh, Willie. He's like, oh, I'm in. But he was so fired up. He was like, there's such a thirst, especially in some of the more obscure places. He said they packed the house, was hooping and hollering. He was really excited. It took him, you know, a day to get there and a day to get home and a day to have the experience. So I wrongfully asked. I said, was there some Eskimos there? And he said, they don't. That's an offensive word to them. I was like, well, I didn't get the memo on that. They're called natives. Native.

[Zach]

Would you be offended if somebody called you a redneck? No.

[Jason]

We're the only people left on the planet that are unoffendable, the rednecks, because they make fun of us, and I don't care.

[Jace]

Well, we make fun of ourselves.

[Jason]

We're like.

[Jace]

I say it all the time. Yeah, yeah.

[Jason]

So, I mean, that leads me to a spiritual segue. If you're right with the Lord, I think you're unoffendable because he basically said, you're going to be offended or people are going to try to offend you just for following me. So why are we shocked?

[Jace]

Well, you know dad. That was the theme of one of Dad's books. The first book that Gordon Ghost wrote for him was, you're un. Cancelable. Which is a hard word to say, but you can't be canceled because once your sins have been canceled at the cross, he did the Colossian214. Then who cares who tries to cancel you after that? It makes no difference. Which I thought was a strong. That's a strong point.

[Jason]

I like it.

[Jace]

I've noticed as I've gotten a little bit older that it gets a little bit harder to deal with the weight.

[Zach]

My metabolism just starts to.

[Jace]

It goes down. Yeah, it goes down. Most people struggle with this. And you're like us. You tried all the ketos and the Paleos and the Weight Watchers and the intermittent fasting, and it becomes about willpower. It's much more about metabolism. That's what we learned from our good friends at PhD weight loss. So if you're watching this, here is the picture of me at the beginning of the journey. Here I am 80 pounds lighter. I'm feeling much better. I can do things I haven't done for probably a decade, which is get out with the kids and do a lot more stuff. Ditch my CPAP was a great blessing to get rid of that thing, especially for travel. So my Life is better, and yours can be, too. I really want to encourage you to make this year the year that you make a difference. If you call now, they'll give you two free weeks in the program and pay for your food so you can finally see real results without more trial and error. If you're done with yo yo dieting and you want clarity, call PhD Weight Loss now and mention Al. No more guessing, just answers. Call 864-644-1900 and say, Ow. That's 864-644-1900. Or you can visit myphdweightloss.com.

[Zach]

That's the. The. He canceled the written code, nailing it to the cross, making a. What does the rest of it say?

[Jason]

Colossians 2. Making a public spectacle, because that's what they were trying to do with Jesus. It's one of my favorite verses in the Bible.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Jason]

And I love to get into heated discussions with people who are trying to put themselves under law again, because when they get to that verse, they're like, he canceled the written code. He took it away by nailing it to the cross. And they said, well, that doesn't mean canceled. But that's what it says. I cancel my subscription, but I still have it. No, that means it wasn't canceled.

[Jace]

So that's exactly right.

[Jason]

Do with it what you want. But I'm not sure that's where we're at today in the text.

[Jace]

But it's not. But I actually. So now it's kind of a weird thing at events because people will bring. Obviously, Dad's not with us on the earth anymore, but they will bring his books that they bought if. If I'm at an event and get me to sign it. So you always sign a verse with my books, you know, because I've thought about a verse that relates to them and. But I hadn't really thought about that. So now I've had to start thinking about, you know, something for each one.

[Jason]

Well, speaking of that, I mean. Okay, you got Mark 12:28, which is. Let's see. Let me get the context. I wasn't planning on going here, but you brought it up.

[Jace]

Is that where I want to go? There?

[Jason]

Yeah. So 1228, one of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. What were they debating about? Let me look up. Oh, marriage at the Resurrection.

[Jace]

Yeah. That was the Sadducees that time. Seven brothers.

[Jason]

Yeah. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked them, of all the commandments, which is the most important? So he's Teacher of the Law. There were hundreds of laws in the Torah. And so he just think of this guy coming up saying, well, which ones? No, he said. Did he say which one? Yeah, which. So he asked for one, which is the most important? The most important one, verse 29, answered, Jesus, is this. Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind and with all your strength. Here's what I find funny. He asked him for one, which is the greatest. Then he said, the second is this. He didn't ask for two, he asked for one, but he gave him two. Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these.

[Jace]

Ooh. It's almost like it's two for one, like they go together.

[Jason]

Well, what's funny is then the guy, the Teacher of the Law, just think you're having a conversation, unbeknownst to him with the Creator of the universe, who wrote the law.

[Jace]

He made you, who is the Lord God.

[Jason]

And then he's like, well, said, teacher. So now you're going to affirm the Creator of the universe. Good job. The man replied, you are right. Just think of how this is not aging well. You're actually giving approval to the Jason.

[Jace]

It feels like there's a little bit of condescending tone in this man's voice.

[Jason]

You're right in saying that God is one and there's no other but Him. To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding, with all your strength, and to love your neighbors yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices. So when Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said, you're not far from the kingdom of God. And from then on, no one dared ask him any more questions. But I love that when he's like, you're close.

[Jace]

Yeah. You're in the neighborhood.

[Jason]

You're to the kingdom. What does that mean? I think that's a good way to start this discussion.

[Zach]

Both of those. Yeah. If you think about the directional nature of the kingdom is connected back to Genesis 1:28. So that always the idea is expansion. And so if you were. If you're in the kingdom and you're saying, what.

[Jace]

What are we doing here?

[Zach]

Just point to what we're doing. Then you're. You're always pointing outward because everything is expansion of the garden, expansion of the temple expanding, expansion of the dwelling place of God. We're going out. The garden is going out. We're not coming in. And so the reason why he Sums that law up. And there's two things that both of those. If you point to where your love is directed in both of the first and the second greatest commandment one you're pointing up because you're pointing to God, you and then now you're pointing out to outward to each other. And so the way of the kingdom is actually the way of. It's the cruciform life. It's what Christ showed us, what Christ lived fully and perfectly. It's not consumptive, self centered. It's outgoing and sacrificial as I think that's what he's talking about when he says you're close to the kingdom. When you start to see this, this is this kingdom that I'm bringing. It's a lot different than the one that you guys know about the ones of the world. Because those kingdoms are all about self preservation. This one right here, no, no, this king is about laying your life down. And then you lay it down. Guess what? It's. It's. You take it right back up. It's vindicated through a resurrected life.

[Jace]

I think that, I agree with that and also think that it reminds this, this story. And I hadn't thought about this story in a while, Jace. That's because I didn't know we were going there either. It reminds me a lot about the rich young ruler story. You know, different but similar in the sense that, you know, he was close to. He knew the law, he knew the law. He, you know, he kept the law in terms of, you know, he wasn't perfect, but I mean, obviously it sounds like he was a pretty obedient person, but he had a heart issue. He just was. Zach was just talking about. He hadn't surrendered the one thing that he loved more because you can say the words, but do you really mean it? And are you really living it? Is it really there? Do you really believe it? Is it? Have you surrendered to it? Because when he was asked point blank to surrender, he walked away. Yeah, this guy, you know, they. He just got quiet. But he said the right things. And it's interesting because by saying the right things, Jesus didn't say now, now you got it. You got the kingdom, you understand? He said, you're close, you're in the right neighborhood. But what he left there, kind of lingering, kind of hanging in the balance was will you embrace it? When the moment comes, and we know what the moment was, will you embrace him? Is. Is Jesus the Messiah? Do I believe in him? Am I willing to commit my life to him and I think there are a ton of implications for this, even in the modern world, because there's a lot of people that have. They say the right things, but is it really the right thing? Is it really. Are they really living? Is it really in there? Have they fully surrendered? Because I see a lot of people that struggle with this idea, and it always comes back to me, it will. Have you fully surrendered? Because if you haven't and the Holy Spirit's not there, you're going to have a hard time understanding what the kingdom really is.

[Zach]

Well, we think about it more like, when we say, like, do you believe in this? People may believe the right things, but it's more than. It's not just that cognitive acquisition of the right set of beliefs. It is the thing we keep hitting on in this podcast that you're participating in God. And so when you read, like, Abraham is credited to him as righteousness. He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. It's one of the arguments the Hebrews makes, is that, you know, Abraham didn't. He just believed in the revelation of God. And so, you know, your desires are what. What. What can shape you and guide you. But. But you have to. But before anything else, you said submitted, you have to submit your. Your will to God's will.

[Jace]

And.

[Zach]

And so you say, well, God's revealing something to you. And it's not a begrudging submission. It's not like, I got to do this thing now because I'm supposed to do it. It really is a better word. Maybe, like, trust, actually trust that what God's telling me is actually true and good. And then that's the picture, I think, and that's what leads to that transformation. So if you try to box it all into a system, which is what the Pharisees were doing, they were like, we're trying to trap you. We've got to say the whole thing figured out. We want to box it in. We want to contain the whole thing in our container. And Jesus is like, well, you're kind of missing the whole thing because you got all the right. You're checking all the right boxes. But to get. You're missing the two big ones of what it's all about. Love God and then love each other. That's what you're not doing if you do those two things. The rest of it takes care of itself. You'll follow the law perfectly if you did that perfectly. So now that we're kind of groupies, when the kids are on the road, we've been Staying at Airbnbs and I had the best night's sleep I've had in a long time on the road. Al guess what kind of mattress it was.

[Jace]

I bet it was a Helix.

[Zach]

It was a Helix mattress. It's absolutely am amazing. Spring is the perfect time to freshen up things around the house. So now's the time to make the switch to a Helix mattress. It's one of the best decisions that we've ever made. We're sleeping deeper and we're waking up rested, which you really need this time of year and when the days are getting longer. We took the super simple Helix Sleep quiz. We were matching what's called the midnight luxe mattress. It's not too firm, not too soft. It's perfect for us because Jill and I are both side sleepers with the moonlight.

[Jace]

We like a little bit on the softer side. And so that's the one thing the quiz really helps, is it helps exactly what you need for you.

[Zach]

I actually wear a trackable. I got the, the Apple watch and I, I track my sleep and I actually got a 97 the other night. I'm telling you, I'm sleeping like a baby. And you too can sleep like a baby. Go to helix sleep.com unashamed for 20% off site wide exclusive for listeners of Unashamed. That's helixsleep.com unashamed for 20 percent off site wide. And make sure you enter our show name at checkout so they'll know that we sent you and. And you get the discount. Helixsleep.com Unashamed

[Jason]

yeah, well, I think how this ties into where we're at in First John because he's fixing to get into this, the idea of love and where it comes from, which I think is the most profound statement. The more I'm reading this in First John 4 where he says love comes from God.

[Jace]

Yeah, that's First John with love one another. So. And then he said, for love comes from God. So he basically restated what Jesus just said, what you read in Mark 12.

[Jason]

Well, and my point is he just gone through this antichrist dissertation, which I think when we talked about that, boy, people couldn't get enough of that because everybody has a theory on what that means. But he specifically said in verse two, this is how you can recognize the spirit of God. Every spirit that acknowledged that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. And so then he launches into this loving one another. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. So it made me think I saw this somewhere. It was really exciting. It's been a while, and I didn't plan on giving this, but since I read that about when he said, you're close to the kingdom, talking about, you know, what is the greatest command? Well, you know, Jesus brings up the exact dissertation that John is giving. Love God, love one another. They go hand in hand. I mean, it's exactly the same thing. But I was listening to something about how the Jews thought that there were like two forces or two gods, because he made that first statement saying that there's only one God. But when you read in the Old Testament, there's some curious passages that seems to infer that there's another presence there. Of course, we as believers, when we read John 1, it kind of answers those questions, oh, that God is not only the Father or Yahweh God, he's the Son, and then there's the Holy Spirit hovering over the waters at creation. But all these things are inferred in numerous passages in the Old Testament, which is why Jesus would famously say, you think, remember in John 5, that listening to the Scriptures, they'll lead you to eternal life, but you refuse to come to me because the Scriptures are about me, and he's talking about the Hebrew Scriptures. And so I'll give you, I'll give you an example of that. So I looked this up and I didn't come up with this on my own, but so I didn't know that all over the Old Testament, picturing God, Yahweh, the Father, there's numerous phrases that says, he's riding on the clouds. I'll give you an example. Psalm 68, 4. Sing to God, sing praises his name, extol him who rides on the clouds. Psalm 143, he makes the clouds his chariot, and rides on the wings of the wind. Deuteronomy 33, 26, There is no one like God who rides upon the heavens for your help and in his excellency on the skies. Isaiah 19:1. See, the Lord rides on a swift cloud. You get the idea. There's numerous ones. Nahum 1:3, the Lord is on his way in the whirlwind and the storm. And in the clouds you say, well, where's the confusion? Well, when you read in Daniel 7, all of a sudden there seems to be another person who's doing this. And so I'll read it in verse 13 and 14. We bring this up a lot. But just to make the point, in my vision, at Night, Daniel's having a vision. He looked, and there before me was one, like a son of man coming or riding with the clouds of heaven. He approached the ancient of days. Well, who's that? That's the one riding on the clouds. And all these other verses I just read, well, who is this? Who is this other fellow? He was given authority, glory, and sovereign power. All peoples, nations, and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away. And his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed. So fast forward to where we just read in Mark. Well, here's this guy being asked. He's looking at him as just a man, and this guy's a teacher of the law. So he's quizzing him, he's testing him, and he's like, oh, you got that right. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and love your neighbors yourself. You're going places. You got the right idea.

[Jace]

Nice job, young man.

[Jason]

And then this guy responds, you're not far from the kingdom. Well, that Daniel 7 should have popped into his head there. And so then I wanted to read Matthew 26, when Jesus was arrested and he's on trial and they're questioning him. And so I'll pick it up in 62 of Matthew 26. Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you? Because they're saying he's a blasphemer. Because of the verse that all this is coming from is the two coming forward in verse 60, where he says, they say, this fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days. Ooh. So they're like, why would you say something like that? So Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, I charge you under oath by the living God. Now, just keep in mind, who is this Jesus that they're talking about? Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God. He said, yep, it is as you say. Jesus replied, listen to this reply. But I say to all of you, in the future, you will see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of the mighty one and. And riding on the clouds of heaven. Oh, wow.

[Jace]

And you know, that had to invoke because these. These boys knew the scripture. They knew exactly what he meant.

[Jason]

Yeah, well, I say that because a lot of people say that Christianity, or following Jesus, Son of God, was invented. It was just created. It's a detachment from the Old Testament to the New Testament, they're like, yeah, yeah, y' all just made all this up. But who in the world was Daniel talking about? And why is this fella in Matthew here saying the very thing that was prophesied in Daniel? You're going to see that. You're. You're looking at him.

[Zach]

Well, it's not just that. Even in the history of Israel. I was going to read this real quick. I pulled up. You're talking about the two different. Or they had a. There's this thought in Judaism when they would read the Old Testament, the Torah, they would think, wait a second.

[Jace]

Seems like there's two.

[Zach]

Two characters here. You know, there's like a. There's Yahweh and then there's the word of Yahweh. And they seem like different persons. And this is like pre Jesus, right? This is before Jesus even arrived on the scene. And, yeah, we're doing this course.

[Jason]

Well, it's pre Jesus in human form. Yeah, but it's not pre Jesus.

[Zach]

Yeah, well, I mean, Jesus is the incarnated, so it would be not pre sun, but pre Jesus. Jesus is the incarnation of the Son. And so when you think about that, you say, well, we just made that up. Then I guess we just made up this whole second person of the Trinity thing and this whole Trinity doctrine and all that. But you listen to this from Philo, which we actually are talking about him in our. We're doing that Hillsdale ancient Christianity course. And. And one of the episodes we're doing is before Cri. Like before Christ, like, before arrived on the scene, what was the state of. Of, you know, Israel and how it moved into this time. And Philo was a. He was a Hellenistic Jewish philosopher, which that just means that he was in kind of the Greco Roman world. And so he had that influence from the Greco philosophers, like Aristotle, those guys. But he's Jewish, but he's a Hellenistic Jew.

[Jason]

I mean, what a name. Can we just back up? Because I've never figured that out. Why would someone who claims to be a believer call themselves Hellenistic?

[Zach]

Well, it just means that they are connected.

[Jace]

He was influenced. He was influenced by influence.

[Jason]

When you want to have a meeting and say, let's change that to Heaven Istic.

[Zach]

Well, I don't think he. I don't know if he. That's not how he referred to himself. I think this is how, like, history,

[Jace]

others referred to the Jews.

[Jason]

I just never figured out that phrase.

[Jace]

He was making a play on words.

[Zach]

Yeah, it just means like, Jews that were basically in the world of Greece and Then like Athens and kind of everything around that culture and philosophy.

[Jace]

I get it.

[Jason]

But why use the word hell?

[Jace]

Oh, hell.

[Zach]

I get you. Yeah.

[Jason]

Put your hands over your head.

[Zach]

I'm sorry.

[Jason]

Well, I just never. I thought.

[Zach]

How.

[Jace]

How. Let's make it a hammer. It's Helena. Is it Helen the Greek? Helen of Troy or whatever. Is that what. Yeah, yeah.

[Jason]

It's just a bad play on words.

[Zach]

Not hellistic. Hellenistic.

[Jace]

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[Jason]

Absolutely. Every day I'm so thankful that her sweet birth mother chose life.

[Jace]

Yeah, I love that. Because it's pro love, right? As well as pro life.

[Jason]

Absolutely.

[Jace]

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[Zach]

Oh, by the way, someone, one of the ladies came up to me at that event I was at, and she said, hey, I just want you to know eschatology. She was standing right there. I said, she just let me know. She listens. Unashamed. So some people like the big words.

[Jason]

Apparently, that's why people think that Christianity was made up, because we tend to put everything in a category, you know? Yeah.

[Zach]

Well, let me say this, though. So this is what Philo says. And now keep in mind, he didn't get this from the New Testament because that hadn't been written yet. He asked this question. He said, why is it that he speaks as if of some other God, saying that he made man after the image of God and not that he made them after his own image. No mortal thing could have been formed on the similitude of the Father supreme of the universe, but only after the pattern of the second deity, who is the word of the Supreme Being. Men bear in themselves a familiar acquaintance with His Word, of which the human mind is similitude and form. And so, I know it's a lot, but what he's saying there, I mean, literally, he's recognizing there seems to be another person in the God, in this idea of God. And what they would do is when the. When the. When they would translate the Bible for people who didn't speak Hebrew or understand Hebrew, they would translate it in, I think, Aramaic. The word they would use to describe that second person of the Godhead, the word of the Supreme Being, the Word of God. They would use the word Logos. That's the actual translation they would use. So when you get to John 1, what you see is, you see in the beginning was the Word, the Logos. The word was with God. The word was God. So John is actually going back to these Jewish people who kind of saw this in the Old Testament. They never could make sense of it. He's like, yeah, you know how you guys read about the word of Yahweh? Let me tell you who that is. His name is Jesus, and he became flesh. And so that set was there, that background was there when Jesus arrived on the scene. It's one of the reasons, Al, why I'm really enjoying this ancient Christianity class, because it gives kind of a framework for understanding when Christ arrives on the scene. I mean, this thing had been building up for thousands of years to the point when Christ arrives, it's like, oh, he's the climax of the story, right? And it's been pretty powerful.

[Jace]

Yeah, I agree. And it was interesting because they accused Christianity of being atheists because they didn't have statues of their gods, you know, all over the temples or, you know, places they met or whatever, and even. Even Judaism as well. So it is ironic that two or three different cultures during that period of time. This is what we've learned in the course. They had all these multiple gods, but they. They were then made into statues, and that's who they worship. And we're. And the Christianity, you know, following Judaism says, no, we have one God. He's multifaceted. He's 1, and yet he's 3. And we have no statues of him because he became a man. And so he's a man like us, which they just could not take.

[Zach]

They Couldn't grasp that. But. But listen to these verses, though. If you think that, like, we're making this up. This is in Jeremiah 1:4 and, and then 1:9. It's. It's in the same context right now. The word of Yahweh came to me saying, and then. And just a few verses later, then Yahweh put his hand and touched my mouth, and Yahweh said to me. So you see that there is like, there's a lot of verses like this, by the way, in the Bible where you would have the word of Yahweh and then Yahweh. And you're like, wait, it's a little weird to read it because you're like, it sounds like two different people.

[Jace]

And it is.

[Zach]

It's two different persons. And so you actually see once the Trinity is revealed in Christ, yet when you see the baptism of Jesus, you see a really clear picture of it, then this is revealed. And now you can go back and you can look at all these texts in the Old Testament. You're like, oh, that's. Oh, you know, the Son was there the entire time. In fact, he was there at creation, and the whole world was made by him, and for Him. Nothing was made without Him. Wow. So the second person, the Trinity, Jesus or the Son, was present through all of these stories that we read about in the Old Testament.

[Jason]

Yeah, that's why he would refer to, I'll put my name in him. Remember the angel of the Lord. Well, who's that? Because he was given the same respect as Yahweh. And you're like, well, wait a minute, isn't he just an angel? Or is the word of the Lord the angel of the Lord? I mean, and so I think most people get the idea there, oh, this is. This is the Son pre becoming a

[Jace]

human, which I think it ties in so strongly, James, because we Left off in First John 4. 7, the last podcast you made, you kind of went down a rabbit hole on the being born of God. Remember that everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. And you talked about children, and you read some verses from the Old Testament and New that talked about children that are born that at some point come to know this idea of right and wrong. And we went all the way back to the garden. I firmly believe this is why God chose to come into the world through Jesus Christ. Being born of a woman was to show us this idea about birth. I mean, we all know we physically are born into the world, but this idea of rebirth and Being born of God, that's why he did it that way, is to show us the way. Which is why Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3, he was like, you got to be born again. Nicodemus is like, well, how does that happen? I can't get back in my mother's womb. You know, I'm a grown man. But he. He knew only about the birth, not the rebirth, which is why I think Jesus came the way he did.

[Jason]

There's no doubt.

[Jace]

Show us.

[Jason]

Yeah, I don't think there's any. When you go back to the creation story, when does the evil one show up? When God institutes marriage and the foundation of a family. Which is why I also think that John brings up Cain in 1 John 3. I mean, just think about the passage. Where is that in Malachi, where it says God hates divorce. And then he goes on to say, because he wants godly offspring, because he's thinking, he's saying. What nobody likes to say out loud is divorce is destructive to the kids involved more than anybody else. And so when does he show up? Right when the family is being instituted. Because in this whole idea of love, you see God's plan at work throughout all generations. You want to pass this on, and you. You have the family model, kids come forth, you train them, you pass that on. So when that gets disrupted, then evil makes itself known. I mean, that. That's how it all happened to me, you know?

[Jace]

And look, Jaz, you're so. You're so right. I mean, I just did a marriage event this weekend, and I mean, every time we do one of these, and then you start talking to people in the breaks or at the book table or whatever. It's just what you just mentioned. It's always generational curses. It's. It's things that happen to them when they were kids. It's the. Their parents split up, their dad was abusive. These things happen. And you see what happens when these generational curses then come into the next relationship and the next marriage. And the first instinct is to do what you've seen and to do the same thing and to keep the curse going, which that's what the evil one was. You know, we compare it to having a bunch of suitcases going into your marriage and then just trying to put them under the bed and never really open them up and let God take all the junk. Because you have to be the curse breaker, right? You have to be the one that says, no, we want to be reborn. We want to be renewed individually and as a married couple. So what you're saying is spot on to where people are. Because, I mean, I see them every week. We're out there and have these conversations. And when they realize that, when they surrender it all to Christ and then surrender to one another, it's amazing what can happen. And then you hear those stories.

[Jason]

Exactly. And I think it shows you that love is under attack because that's, you know, Cain kills Abel. I mean, the kids suffered the consequences of Adam and Eve's sinful decision. And then here we go. And that continues. I think that's why he uses all this language about being born again. Jesus was born physically, but then he's offering, oh, there's a new creation. I mean, even from the Bible as a whole. I mean, you got this book that no one has ever done a podcast on, which would be interesting now that I'm thinking about this. The Song of Solomon. I mean, have you read that lately?

[Jace]

So we do it every. We do it every year at our marriage refresh. And people are shocked by what's in there.

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[Jason]

Well, and here's what I found fascinating. I did a little rabbit hole on the song. That's songs or Song of Solomon, which most people don't even believe. Solomon wrote it. It's just the man was. How many wives did he have? Seven hundred?

[Jace]

About a thousand.

[Jason]

Thousand? Yeah, it was a lot. And because a lot of it is from a woman's perspective. And then you have the man's perspective. But. And now look, I. I did a rabbit hole on it because what, what I find fascinating about that book, because it's a collection of poems about love between a man and a woman. Desire. You know, Zach brought that up our desires. So the Jews will say, well, this was a picture of God being married to Israel. Well then the Christians came along and they're like, no, it's a picture of when. When Paul recorded in Ephesians 5. It's Jesus and the church. You know, it's so Funny, because you read it and you're like, well, it can't be between just a husband and a wife. I mean, it's just too graphic, you know, and they're. It's, it's. It's. It's pretty. Pretty raw there about desires. And, well, now, you know, they found a lot more. They've uncovered a lot more. What do they call those things, the scrolls and all, since the year 2000. And the more you read it, there's a lot of garden imagery in there. And that was the rabbit hole idea, which I found fascinating. And so now a lot of scholars are saying, well, maybe it was depicting the relationship of Adam and Eve, a picture of that before the. The fall, the sin, which makes a lot of sense because there's no shame. There's no.

[Jace]

That's what I was about to say. Love with no shame. I mean, true, true love. Physical, emotional, spiritual love without shame. And it would be fascinating to see that because it's just, you know, we don't see it.

[Jason]

Well, we're all so corrupt. We immediately start reading and thinking, oh, I. I don't need to be reading this. I got to protect my. You know, it's in the Bible. It'. There's a letter in the Bible that everybody's like, that's inappropriate and irreverent. I'm like, I'm reading Bible scripture here. He's describing the anatomy of a woman in graphic detail. And other than my dad, I've never heard anyone, you know, quote those verses, which he did. And everyone would laugh. I mean, he would. He would memorize these graphic verses, and then he would start talking about Ms. K. And it's like, yeah, Bill, we'd rather you not get into this at the table. You know, but that's why he did it.

[Jace]

Her breasts are like gazelle, you know,

[Jason]

and people are like, oh, we can't talk about that. It's in the Bible. And what's awesome about that is within that marriage, one man, one wife for life, which I've experienced. And, you know, I can comment on this because I've never been with another woman in any intimate way that I have with my wife. And, hey, there's a lot of that going on. There's a lot of song of songs going on. And it is a beautiful thing when it's done in a trusting way of God and it's depicted as a love story. And so when you think about love, because, I mean, we talk about it. Let me just think. There's. I googled how many Love songs have been written and it's, it's tens of millions. It said well over 100 million. The exact number.

[Jace]

It's not. Jason. The most oft used word in any song title by far.

[Jason]

You know what's also a top five Google search? What is love trying to define in a search for love? And so I think what the Bible captures only in all of society, in all the song, the hundred million songs about love, the Bible is the only place that captures what love is, which is fascinating to me.

[Jace]

Yeah, that's true.

[Jason]

So I looked up, you know what I found fascinating in this little rabbit hole search because we're going to talk about love. Because how many times is the word agape, love used in First John in this little section that we're 27 times

[Jace]

in these 15 verses we're about to study.

[Jason]

You know what I found fascinating? I had never heard of Philo until I was doing my research on this. And then Zach starts quoting him. You know what I found fascinating? I forgot where I heard this. I wish I could give credit to this because I thought this was fascinating. So the Greek poets and philosophers very rarely use the word agape or agape. The verb of it, agapeo, I think is the verb. Yeah, they can't find the writings. It didn't flourish, that word until Jesus came on the scene.

[Jace]

Correct.

[Jason]

Now you think what happened? He literally redefined an obscure word that they use rarely. He created a new Greek word to be used profoundly from his experience on the planet. That's when you know you did something or you showed what true love is when they took a word and said, ooh, Jesus has redefined that. Because post Jesus, they used it primarily. And the same, you see in the Bible they still use, you know, the friendship word for love and all that, but that's the one they mainly use, which, which is not too different from agape. But when I heard that, I thought, isn't that fascinating that we, we had to, we had to redo our vocabulary after the way Jesus lived his life when it comes to love. And it became ultimately this self giving, sacrificial love. And so another thing I found interesting is that verse in 1 John. Cause it started in 3:16 when he just made this profound statement. He said, this is how we know what love is. I mean, you want to know what love is? We can save you some Google search. Jesus Christ laid down his life for us, period. And you know what I found fascinating? I'd never noticed before. I'm going to give you a couple of other verses here that seems to say the same thing when defining love. Galatians 2:20 is the one that says, I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live. But watch what it says. But Christ lives in me. The life I live in, the body. I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself up for me. I don't know. We're almost out of time, so I'll give you one more, but it's all over the place. Ephesians 5. He says, Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children, same language John used. And live a life of love. Just as Christ loved us. Just as Christ loved us. Here it is again. And gave himself up for us. Why does it keep saying that this is love. And it says, christ gave himself up for us. Christ gave himself up for us. Christ gave himself up for us. So you know the first time love is mentioned in the Hebrew Scriptures?

[Zach]

Do you know the first time love

[Jason]

is mentioned in the Bible? The word love. The Hebrew word for love. The first mention of love, which in Hebrew, ahava. Ahava occurs in Genesis 22:2, when God instructs Abraham to take his son, saying, take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac. And do what? And give his life up. Isn't that interesting? And then it's defined later in the New Testament as Jesus gave himself up for us.

[Jace]

All right, Jace, well, you've. You've run us out of time, but you've left us intrigued. Which means we'll have to come back next time and pick this up on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.