← Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Ep 1322 | Jase Channels His Inner Phil to Battle Against Gen Z Nonsense
00:56:33
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- [00:01]
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- [00:32]
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- [00:57]
Zach
Okay, you do you boo.
- [00:59]
Jason
Are you talking to me? Thing I ever heard.
- [01:07]
Jay
What was that?
- [01:08]
Jason
Some movie reference or something? I'm not. That may work with Bear and Fred. You get nothing here.
- [01:19]
Jay
Oh, slap or yeah, we do these podcasts with these young gu. Got all these little words.
- [01:25]
Jason
Jason.
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Jay
I don't know what they mean. They say them all the time.
- [01:29]
Jason
Yeah, back when I was 17, 18, and somebody said that I'd have whipped their butt due to technology. I can't get at you.
- [01:39]
Zach
Oh, that was a Phil moment. You had that feel.
- [01:42]
Jason
That was. It was like, what? What?
- [01:44]
Zach
I feel that that was nostalgic.
- [01:46]
Jason
That there's a level of nonsense that I just don't entertain. I am unashamed. What about you? I don't even know what that means, but it's the sarcastic nature of it. I said, look, let me give you.
- [02:06]
Zach
You didn't like it.
- [02:07]
Jason
The feel. Gladiator style.
- [02:11]
Zach
You gave me the feel. It was the glare. You looked up. It was like you channeled your inner dad on that. That was good. Took me back, Al. Took me back.
- [02:22]
Jay
I feel like I was watching y' all in this moment and it felt like when we have Zach Christian and John Luke on the podcast and they use these words. It's a whole nother. It's a new vocabulary. And my grandkids get it because I'll text bcat. I said, what does this mean? And she'll tell me right off. And then it made sense. But in the moment of it, I was like, you just were. I was like, I don't know what that means.
- [02:45]
Jason
I don't let them fly with it. When they start using all these new catchphrases and I'll, I'm like, don't get attached to that. It'll die out sooner than later.
- [02:53]
Jay
It's just a new way of describing, you know, Christians say, yeah, that's fire. I was like, fire. Okay, is that a good thing? Because a fire can be good.
- [03:03]
Zach
But I think he's kidding. I think that's the part that's where
- [03:06]
Jason
it's, it's New Age humor.
- [03:08]
Jay
Yeah, it's humor.
- [03:09]
Zach
I saw a guy, I saw a guy talking the other day, he was talking about how popular it is now to criticize, like, the generation above you and, you know, talk about how your parents messed you up with their raising and he's going through all this whole thing. But basically you forget that they built something that you're benefiting from and you stand on the thing they built to critique them. And I, I, I don't know, I guess I'm getting older now because I feel like that I'm in that place where I'm getting critiqued and almost a little bit made fun of by the next generation. I'm like, hey, we built this, boys. Don't forget about that. You're standing on a platform that we built. And now you criticize.
- [03:45]
Jay
But it's almost like it's self absorbed anyway, because until our lifetimes, when they named, like Dad's generation, I guess technically the one right before him, they just called it the greatest generation. But when is it. So when do we have to name every generation? I mean, goes this and that.
- [04:03]
Zach
That's a whole new thing.
- [04:06]
Jason
Do you know how many times I've had to look it up on the Internet? Because they're like Gen Z and millennials are the leading church attenders. And I'm like, oh, who is that? Let me go look. Oh, it's the young people.
- [04:17]
Jay
Oh, okay. Well, that's what we used to. Young people and then middle aged people and old people. That's what we used.
- [04:25]
Jason
I just always imagine fail, you know, in those contexts. He's like, jen, A B Z.
- [04:33]
Jay
A B G Z.
- [04:34]
Jason
My dad did one of the most funny rants on. And I'm, I'm sure, like, if it was on the Internet, it would be censored because he shot a deer. He shot a deer and held up. It was not an impressive buck. He was a little, little buck. And so he did a sarcastic rant on all this deer terminology that's out there. I cannot stand it. That's why I just stay away from the Deer hunting, the guys chasing the big bucks. Because it's like, G4. He's got a G4 and a G2. I have no idea what they're talking about, but my dad did a rant on that. He's like, look at these g. He got a G8. G6 over here with. He's got a Z4.
- [05:25]
Jay
Two.
- [05:26]
Jason
Yeah.
- [05:26]
Jay
2:20.
- [05:27]
Jason
He was just making it all. It was such a small deer. It was just so funny. He's like, no, this is. This is big buck. But. And I don't think the deer owners, they all laugh, but they don't realize. He's making fun of you. He is making fun of you. Quit doing that. I can't stand. I don't. I don't want to know what a G4 is on a deer. I have zero interest. I don't care. And don't tell me his G4 is bigger than the G3. It just. Oh, it's Infuria.
- [06:01]
Zach
Well, that's what the. The kids. The young kids around my orbit. I'm like. When I'm. When I'm.
- [06:06]
Jay
They.
- [06:06]
Zach
When I use your language back to you. I'm not trying to fit in. Like, I don't.
- [06:13]
Jay
Because they're like, dad, don't do that.
- [06:15]
Jason
Yeah, but I think you're so, so cringy.
- [06:18]
Zach
I'm like, okay, what you understand is I'm making fun of you.
- [06:22]
Jason
Yeah, but you're subconsciously doing that, like, because you did it to me, so that's where I'm out.
- [06:29]
Zach
But the fact that you did it to you. I did it to you because I knew it would be awkward. It was. I wanted to push the button. I just felt like we needed. I was it. We were in a mode. And I just. And I just. I wanted.
- [06:44]
Jason
I'm glad that we've come to a place in our relationship that you can act like an idiot and feel comfortable.
- [06:51]
Zach
I was trolling you. Rage baiting, as they say.
- [06:53]
Jay
And so there you go. There's some more terminology.
- [06:56]
Jason
I was talking. The last talk I did, I was trying to describe what this fellowship is that we have with God, this partnership. And now I created another word, attunement, which they use in this New Age movement. So somebody mistakenly came up to me
- [07:14]
Jay
and said, you know what that really means?
- [07:17]
Jason
Well, that's that New Age stuff. And, boy, I just stopped right there. I was like, you know, New Age is in the Bible, and that's what Jesus created. That's right. We're in the New Age, and we don't Age. He invented new age. New age. So don't let people who come up with a bunch of nonsense call it new age and. Oh, it's a thing. No, God is the new age. Everybody's going to have a new age. It's God. It's not whatever these mindless zombies are that you're listening to. So I'm taking back these words. That's why I like that word attunement. I like the harmony, listening. I mean, there's a load of verses that imply that all over the place about what is this relationship look like with what we're doing? I mean, the main place I thought about is in prayer. I mean, you're literally. God is giving you access through Jesus. You know, we left off in Hebrews 10, where you have access for eternity to the eternal God. You have a conversation and he. He listened. Yeah. And he's gonna give you whatever it is according to his will. But the fact that you can have that conversation, I mean, what is the word that describes that?
- [08:30]
Zach
I think when you. This is very controversial. I'm going to say it, though, because I think it's true that the best lies all have something in common. You know what it is?
- [08:42]
Jason
Some truth.
- [08:43]
Jay
Some truth.
- [08:44]
Zach
They got some truth in it.
- [08:45]
Jay
And so that's not controversial.
- [08:48]
Jason
No, that's a fact.
- [08:49]
Jay
And that's biblical. That's Genesis 3. Satan did.
- [08:51]
Zach
Yeah, but what's controversial is then if you were to say, well, is. Is there any truth in religions that are pagan and not Christian, or there's some truth in it. There's not.
- [09:02]
Jason
These truths we learned this last podcast. It's our job to guard and protect.
- [09:07]
Jay
That's exactly. And you're right, though, Zach. Almost every obstruction and everything that comes out of it came out of this. It came out of the word of God. It came out of the people of God. But then that's where the things come in that begin to distort. And you're right. And Satan took that. He. He learned that at the very beginning, his best playbook was to put truth in there, but just alter it a little bit. Oh, yeah. And then take off.
- [09:34]
Zach
That's what he does. I mean, I spoke at a. I spoke at an event. I don't know if I've told you all this. You can stop me. I spoke at an event at Montreat College, and I was on a panel with a couple other people in the creative writing space, and I was the only believer on the stage. And the question was something to the effect of how. How does the truth influence the story, whatever you're writing or telling, or how does the truth impact that? And one of the authors up there was like, well, I actually went last. They both spoke and then I went there like. She's like, well, she said, first of all, truth is subjective. And so you have to, you have to at least start there. And I was, of course, I'm like, oh man, I gotta go after this now, because I definitely disagree with that. And. And then she started to talk about stuff and then. So I'm listening to her and then the gentleman next to her said pretty much the same thing. And. And I thought that there was some truth in what they were saying. But it, but the, but the basic underlying premise was untrue, which was that all truth is subjective. And so when I go, when I got to me, I just simply said, well, I may. I gave affirmation where I could. I said, I love the point you made about. And I forgot what it was now. I said, but there. And there are some subjective truths. And I said, for example, and I asked the audience, as a bunch of students, I said, what's the best flavor of Starburst? And they're all naming out red, yellow, pink. I'm like, well, hold on, Whoa, we got too many competing. There's only one. I said, so that's subjective. That is subjectively true. That's true depending on your perception of it or your taste, your opinions. I said, but if I held up a packet of Starbursts, I was like, how many are in here? There's only one answer that's an objective truth. And so I said, well, you can't say all truth is subjective because if you make that statement, you're actually backing into a truth that isn't subjective, which would be that all truth is subjective. That would be objectively true. And I think what happens in language a lot, and while you probably get a little pushback on the attunement is because in the rainbow and everything is that if you look at all forms of counter worldviews to Christianity, what they all have in common is, you notice, they'll reach over into the Christian worldview category and they'll grab our stuff and then they'll take it back over into their category to tell us that this category isn't here. That's what they're doing. They're reaching into a world that they say is not real. But they can't even defeat the world that they're opposing without reaching into that world and grabbing stuff out of that world to make their point. And I think that's what we're seeing is the role of the Christian, then is there is an attunement. I mean, it is about being in harmony. There's some truth in that. And I think that life in Christ is not only about the transaction of having your sin paid for. It's also, and maybe more primarily about participation in a real, genuine relationship with
- [12:47]
Jay
Jesus Christ, which I want to say something about that. Zach, before you get in, Jason, a perfect illustration of what you just said. So there's a movie coming out about Lisa and I may 16th, by the way. Now it's for sure. And there's a young actor playing me when I was young. And so I said, have you ever played a person, a real person? He said, yes. And I said, have you ever played a real person that's still alive? And he said, no. And so I thought that was interesting because you could play a person from the past and there's things out there about them, but you could alter that and you could do it in your own interpretation. But the person's not alive to really say, hey, wait a minute, I didn't do that. That's not me. But in this case, he's playing a person, me, who's still alive. So like anything he does, that's not really what I did or what I would do. I'm here to say, hey, hey, wait a minute. So I thought about, with the idea about living truth. And that's why the objective truth of God continues to go on, because it's still alive. See, the difference is Satan was all about the death. If somehow someone dies, then you can make up whatever you want about it or some past situation, we can put our own twist on it. But if it's still living and going forward, you can't change that. It's always going to be here. Now, you can reject it, you can twist it, you can do whatever you want to do, but it's still here if you just keep living. So I just thought about that, man, the idea of just.
- [14:11]
Jason
Well, that's what I wanted to read these verses for.
- [14:16]
Jay
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- [15:55]
Jason
So I just looked up Bible verses that reference the attunement of God and man. Here's what it spit out. So it had Ephesians 3:16. Remember when he said, I pray that you may be strengthened with power through his spirit in your inner being so that Christ may dwell in your heart. Which is the theme what we've been talking about. God dwelling with people. Think garden, think temple through faith, filling them with the fullness of God. So because we just read over that. But you don't realize God's alive. Just like your story. We're supposed to walk as Jesus did. He's alive, we have his spirit. There's communication. We're praying, we're thinking, we're meditating. And every once in a while in your heart you're like, pretty sure he's saying, I didn't do this. I mean, you know that that's part of this.
- [16:59]
Zach
I mean I don't want to just brush over what you just said. Even that concept of meditation and thinking about sitting into the presence of God, that's that Hebrews language. He says that the mature who by constant use, the mature, mature people by constant use, solitude, constant use have trained themselves or constant pract, have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil. So that's the abiding in Christ. I'm coming in and I'm developing muscle memory. And when I was thinking about that, like how that relates to the Priesthood, how it relates to. Even to the confidence that the Hebrew writers trying to pull us into is the confidence isn't simply, this is how we always teach it, that Christ paid for your sin, and so there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. And we're like, I feel better now. And then we go around literally all of our church services, all of our sermons, and we're only trying to convince people that God's not mad at you anymore. He's not going to hold you guilty. And then I look at my. My daughter Ruth, who's five years old. You know, Jill and I were with her. We went to dinner the other night, and Ruth orders the chicken. She's five. And then Jill orders some kind of dish that had chicken in it. Well, Jill eats all the chicken out of her. Out of her salad. Well, then she reaches over into Ruth's plate, grabs a piece of chicken and then proceeds to eat it. And I'm like, don't do that. Because I just watched Ruth chew that up and spit it out on her plate. I was like, of course. My gag reflex kicks in. And Jill's like, at this point, I don't even care. That's what she said. I thought you just ate food that someone else spit out. She said, yeah, but it's Ruth. And I thought, man, that. And it kind of is true about your kids, you know, like, stuff that would gross you out from anybody else. When it comes to your, like, your own kids, especially with a mom and their daughter or mom and their son, they can do stuff that you're like. Would gross them out in any other context, but the relationship is so connected that they literally. It doesn't gross them out.
- [19:03]
Jason
And. And then I was thinking, I've thought about this before, because when I was dating Missy, we went on a double date one time. I'm not going to mention who this is, but they were chewing. They would chew their food, and they'd say, let me try it. The guy or the girl. And they would try it from their mouth. And I was gagging.
- [19:28]
Zach
It was a little too much.
- [19:29]
Jay
Well, yeah, you know, the thought process said, well, I kiss her, so what does it matter? But it still matters.
- [19:35]
Jason
I did not handle it well. I was young and full of vigor, and I was following Jesus. And I said, y' all need to repent. And they were like, what? Repent? I was like, if you'll do that in public, I know what's happening behind the scenes, and I don't like it. You know, you're Too close.
- [19:51]
Zach
And you're not in a covenant marriage.
- [19:53]
Jason
And it did not go well. They got mad. Real seriously.
- [19:57]
Jay
Forget about French kissing. You've taken it to another level.
- [20:00]
Jason
I'm like, how does I know I'm gonna be.
- [20:02]
Zach
That's a red flag. If I saw that, I might do a soft rebuke as well. Well, I'm not saying you're living in sin, but you probably live in sin.
- [20:10]
Jay
I went too far.
- [20:11]
Jason
We did repair the relationship later, and they actually got married, so it worked out, but I'm like, that's disgusting. I cannot sit here and allow this to get.
- [20:21]
Zach
I can't. I can't even go there with Jill. Like, I can't eat her food. I'll be. Now. I would eat anybody's food.
- [20:27]
Jay
Missy.
- [20:27]
Jason
Missy. One of her biggest pet peeves with me, and she has every right. I'm saying I'm totally in the wrong, but it's like, if I have ketchup and I on my plate, you know, the first time she just reached over and used my ketchup, I said, don't do that. She has never gotten over that.
- [20:51]
Zach
But with your kids, though. But with kids, it's. It's. There's something different. Like, you can get away. I don't know. It's weird. It's that connection. And I got to thinking about this from Ruth's perspective and even from my own perspective. My own dad and mom, you know, my mom's passed on, but my dad, like. Like, you know, I've never. Now, you guys grew up different than I did because y' all had a. Y' all did have a moment where, you know, you weren't a chunk of your early life. You were not connected with your father. But. But. But the way I was raised is my dad was engaged, involved, and was faithful to our family from the time. From the time I was conceived. And. And the same with Ruth. You know, we've brought her into our home the day she was born, and all of our kids. And there is an assumption, there is a confidence, if you will, in. In that I have and that they have. I've never questioned my dad's love for me. It's not even. It's not even a thing in me. There's no insecurity. There's no, like. I mean, it is.
- [21:52]
Jason
It is.
- [21:53]
Zach
I just trust my dad. I mean, he loves me. I know. It's not even. Like. It's in my DNA. That is my default. And the same thing with Ruth. And I watch her. She. She doesn't The. The assumption is the. The muscle memory, the default for Ruth is like, my parents. She doesn't even think there's. She's not going around thinking, I wonder if my mom loves me. I wonder if my dad loves me. She never has that thought, which is kind of like, that's a whole nother level of confidence, is that you don't even have the thought, because it's not even a question. And I think what the Hebrew writer and the whole Bible is really trying to pull us back into is, is that God loves you like he really does love you in that way. And the confidence that you can, if you really get that and believe that, the confidence that you'll be able to have to enter into the relationship with Christ is way more than you pulling out your. Your receipts and saying, here's the receipt I'm paid for.
- [22:47]
Jason
I like it. I like it when you read my mind. Because this is where I was going with this. Because where we Left off in First John 5, we had already talked about the confidence from First John 4:17 that we have confidence on the Day of Judgment, which is the only confidence that most religions talk about. You know, you need to put your faith and trust in God, so one day when he comes back, you know, you'll. You'll be confident. But then he brings up confidence again in 1 John 5:14, because he says, this is the confidence we have in approaching God. Well, where we left off on the last podcast, I made a mistake not highlighting this when I read that. Hebrews 10:19. The whole reason I read that, with us having the Spirit and Jesus opening up the curtain through his body, he's our great high priest in the house of God. We were talking about the temple.
- [23:51]
Jay
He's.
- [23:51]
Jason
He's sprinkled our hearts to cleanse us from a guilty conscience, and he's washed our bodies with pure water. Well, that all started when it says in verse 19, therefore, brother, since we have confidence to enter the most holy place. And look, Hebrews 4 says the same thing. Remember when it says verse 14, Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens on our behalf, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess, for we do not have a high priest who's unable to sympathize with our weaknesses. And then it says so verse 16, let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.
- [24:47]
Zach
Think about that, though. If you go back to the temple if it was only about the payment or the receipts, then it would have said that he went to the altar of incense. The point is that he went through the curtain. What's back there? That's where the presence of God is. So the confidence is the presence.
- [25:10]
Jason
That's where I'm headed with these verses that I have about. So I read the Ephesians 3, John 15, 4, emphasizes the connection through the command to live in me and I will live in you. So there's the connection. They have Psalm 139, 23 and 24. You can read that if you want to. But John 10, where it says, my sheep listen to my voice and follow him, because they know his voice. James 4, 8 says, promises that when man draws close to God, God will draw close to him. Now I'm going to kind of confess my good points and my struggles in my attunement with God. I do a Good job on 2 Corinthians 5, 18, 19, where it says that God, through Christ, reconciled the world to himself, but then he entrusted believers with the message of reconciliation. So, like I look at my life, I do a pretty good job. When I'm out in the world of being attuned with God, I think God is present. Therefore, I need to plant a seed or make this a Jesus conversation. And you say, what, are you bragging? Yeah, I do a good job of that. I'm talking about from Walmart, cash register person to airplane. I'm constantly having. Where I struggle is the first John 5. Just in my prayer life, the three things that Jesus brought up on the Sermon on the Mount. Prayer, giving, which I give a lot, but I'm saying fasting and praying. Eh, not as great. They tend to be. I pray a lot, but they're not as intimate. Based on everything I'm reading, I'm like, I got work to do here. I need to have. And it comes from that thought you said about when we started in Ephesians 3. I do think that there's a spiritual principle that you see all over the Bible that he fills you up so that you flow, that things flow out, but you got to have that, that filling moment.
- [27:25]
Zach
About five years ago, Jason, my family and I, we went to a little place called Bryce Canyon and we did this hike where we got lost, and I thought we were going to get stranded in the middle of the desert. It turned out to be one of the greatest family moments of our life. We still talk about those stories today. It's one of the reasons why I love our frames One of our sponsors, because those moments that you have, you, they don't just have to live in your memory. You can capture them on a camera and they're right there to easy to see and share at any time.
- [27:55]
Jason
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- [28:06]
Zach
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- [29:07]
Jason
I go back to that sermon we talked about last podcast. The pastor, when he was preaching, he put a picture, you know how the do the. What is that called in the background, the slides on the projector?
- [29:21]
Jay
The PowerPoint.
- [29:22]
Jason
PowerPoint. Well, it was a picture of a bench. This guy's from Australia and he's like, what do you see here? It's just a bench out in the park. He said, I took that picture as I drove by. But he said, that is a portal to heaven itself. So everybody was thinking, what's he talking about? Is he crazy? It's like a movie. It's a bench. And he said, because at the lowest points of my life, I went to that bench and I just opened my heart to God. It's a special place for him because it was part of his maturity. And I thought it was fascinating because when we went to school out and we were young, there was a pond pretty close to the building and I just didn't like being cooped up in the A building and couldn't be outside for the little lunch break we went. I went to that pond, and it was great for my prayer life. And I just. It's like, help me be more positive in this environment, but whatever. But I think that's where this is headed. But what I wanted to highlight on, based on what Zach said, when you get to Romans 8, it gets real interesting about talking about attunement, and not just about, okay, he paid the debt and we're grateful and our sins are removed. But he. He created this access so that I could understand something very profound. And he addresses it in Romans 8. And I've really never looked into it this deeply before, but I think you'll be fascinated by it. I want to read says in verse 26. Now you're talking about intimate.
- [30:57]
Jay
I was just about to quote this.
- [30:58]
Jason
Intimate. It says in the same way he had just talked about the redemption of our bodies, which is once again, there's the confidence on the day of judgment, we're going to get a new body. Oh, we're all confident of that in the same way. Now, the Spirit helps us in our weakness, kind of like Hebrews 4, 13, 17. But watch the language it uses here. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. And he searches our hearts. And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will. But what is the context of all this? The context, remember a little eager speech, is for the adoption that we've been adapted. Adopted as sons. That's verse 23. Not only so we ourselves, who have the first fruit of the Spirit grown inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons. The whole creation waits. That's in Romans 8:19. The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. So it's talking about this adoption, God, son. When you think about the temporary nature of what the tabernacle did and the eternal thing that the Spirit does is that this concept of us being adopted is that spirit understanding that it's very hard for us because we look at what we did and, you know, the rejection that we experience. And so I found this fascinating. So I looked up this Roman process in their day, because adoption does seem to be the metaphor that is used more than any other a lot by Paul especially.
- [32:54]
Zach
Yeah.
- [32:55]
Jay
Romans, Ephesians, you see it coming.
- [32:57]
Jason
So just listen to this so Roman adoption, this is in Jesus day in the first century, was a legal process designed to secure an heir, erasing the adoptee's past debts and debts. Seven witnesses were required to validate this seven, making the person a new permanent heir. It was used by elites to ensure family succession, often adopted adults, and included a new name and rights. The purpose of this, primarily to provide an heir for a wealthy man without sons, keeping the family estate. Family estate intact. Legal status under, I guess this is Roman language, patria potestus. Father's power. The adoptee gained all rights of a legitimate son while losing all rights to their original family. Effect. All previous debts, criminal charges and unlawful activity were forgiven. Just bam. Often, the adoption took place as a legally binding transaction, witnessed by seven citizens. Frequently, young adult males were adopted, not infants, to take on immediate responsibilities. Here we go, the seven witnesses. For an adoption to be legally binding, seven reputable Roman citizens had to witness this ceremony. You say, why am I bringing that up? Because the spirit is testifying with our spirit. What's it saying? You're sons. You're sons of God, you've been forgiven. Publicity. The process was highly public, often finalized before a magistrate and documented to ensure the new status was recognized. So then it has the spiritual parallel. And I wanted to read this. Adopted Christians, like Roman adoptees, gained a new name, a new father, new rights, and have their old debts canceled with a new purpose, whatever that may.
- [35:02]
Jay
Atonement and attunement.
- [35:03]
Jason
Yeah. And. And now you're ready to go. So I'm like it just that struggle, like in your prayer life, is this the kind of thing that's going on or is this just like, you know, some kind of checkout counter? Give me this.
- [35:18]
Jay
Well, and when you were. Before you went there, I was about to say it when you went to Romans 8, because I immediately thought about it, because you mentioned. What sparked it to me was you mentioned us being in school, which for us was a kind of highly stressful situation. We're young adults, we're forced to be inside all day, we're studying. And I mean, it was hard every day of the week. And in those moments of stress and difficulty is when we tend to the most. Have this picture from Romans 8 where there's this struggle. That's why it says it's groans rather than words. I mean, sometimes you're just groaning. I mean, I mentioned last week on the podcast, and I got sick last week, which I think now is a little bit blood sugar. But when it was happening, I mean, my first thing was to appeal to the Almighty, not just to call my local physician. I was like, why am I feeling this way? Why is this so bad? You know? And just what are you, what are you trying to do here? Am I, Am I not understanding? My first thing was to go to him, which is really what this is all about, because he lives in you. I love it. Jason Something we talk about. Someone else that I respect has come up with the same concepts because it's almost in every one of these. Max Lucado. I was reading his little book on first, second, third John as I was preparing and listen to what he said. These are biblical pictures that allow us to see the confident relationship that we have with the Father, Son and the Spirit. And we've almost hit every one of these in the last two podcasts. This is what he said. Vine and the branches, John 15. Abiding because we're in Christ, we're abiding in Him. Temple. And the presence of. And he did First Corinthians 6:19, which you did as well. Actively present was what he said. Bride and the bridegroom, Revelation 21, 2 Ephesians 5, 21 and following. And that's commended intimacy, which we talked about as well. And the garden is another picture. Sheep and Shepherd. Psalm 23, Psalm 100, John 10, which you quoted in the last podcast. That's a loving, protective devotion. So that was the four he mentioned. And then while we were talking, I added to it child and parent, which is what you just went into. And that's all over. First John, two John, and even three John is the idea that we are children and that he is our parent, he is the Father, and Jesus is our brother. And so this idea of this familiar relationship. So his points were exactly what we've been saying in this idea. That's where you see all these. And there's probably more than just those five. But there's all these dynamic relationships of intimacy that is real life and real living well.
- [37:56]
Jason
And Jesus gave the example of that. How many times did he say, look, I'm not doing this on my own. I'm only, I'm trusting the Father. The words I get are coming from the Father. He set that pattern for us to say, okay, it's going to be messy. You're not going to be able to worry about what people think, because if you live like that, there's going to be conflict. I mean, if you're living this attunement out in the world, because, I mean, I told you, I was like, I don't struggle with that because I don't mind confrontation. But a lot of people that they don't want to hear about God because they're in the wrong camp. But I'm, I'm introducing and so it's always going to be bumpy. You're always going to be thought of negatively from some people. But I just think that that's what we're supposed to.
- [38:47]
Jay
Well, Zach, it pushes people. Remember our CS Lewis study. It pushes people to an uncomfortable place to have to look at yourself and look at your relationship with God. So what happens is that's a hard thing for a lot of people to embrace because you don't want to think about that. I don't want to think about that. I'm not where God wants me to be. And when someone puts me there, that's an uncomfortable choice. And so it's a hard decision. When you take that step of obedience and surrender, that's not an easy step. It's a bittersweet, as he called it. So, Jase, you just went on a little speaking tour and Missy's gone. You came home. Were the poochies glad to see you?
- [39:27]
Jason
Well, they're glad to see because here's what happens. You know, I feed them, but they're self sufficient. They have their little doggie door, but they get the rough greens when I'm there because it's like a bonus. So they're actually more excited to see me.
- [39:44]
Jay
It's like the old country song. They can't miss us if we never leave. So when we come back, it's so exciting. And Jay's mentioned rough greens. Most of us don't realize our dog's food is missing the live nutrients that they actually need to stay active and healthy. And so that's where ruff greens comes in them. It's all natural. It's made right here in the good old US of A. You sprinkle it right on their food. Ruffed greens is America's number one dog supplement because it's got probiotics, it's got enzymes, omega oils and over 20 live vitamins and minerals that help with digestion, energy and overall health. Thousands of people are seeing their dogs act more like themselves again and you could be one of them. I've noticed it in my dogs as well, especially with their coats. They're shinier, they're healthier. Alex's dog, Meatball has regenerated some old creaky joints that have been really bothering her for the last few years because she's getting older. Ruffgreens works. We want you to check it out. Get a free jump start trial bag for your dog. You just cover the shipping. Go to ruffgreens.com, use the discount code unashamed. That's r u f f greens.com. discount code, unashamed. Rough greens. We make any dog food better?
- [40:59]
Zach
Yeah, I think you gotta. You have to move into that relational aspect of it and not. And not view the whole thing as the. As a big transaction. Because I was thinking about. Even when you're talking to Jace about the access, if it's almost like you, we focus only on the access and not on what we have or who we have access to. And so I was thinking, trying to think of like an analogy of like, you know, when you're adopted into a family. Well, you know, you're there, you're having meals together. It's the stories, it's the, you know, it's the little nuances that only the family knows about. It's the inside jokes, it's the. It's the tragedy that you hold together in. It's. It's all of that. All that's imported into it. The opposite of that would be like, okay, you got invited to be. Be a vip. You got VIP entrance to a concert or something, and then you go into the deal and all you're talking about, oh, man, I can't believe I got access here. I got access. Oh, I got the VIP access and, oh, I got VIP access. Oh, I'd have to pay anything. I got. Oh, yeah, John gave me VIP access. And if all you're talking about is the access that you got into the thing, it's kind of weird. Like you're missing the thing that you're at. You know what I mean?
- [42:10]
Jay
Yeah.
- [42:10]
Zach
And I. I think that's what's happening in the church. And so with us sometimes is that we only focus on the access point instead of the actually what's behind that curtain. And then what you end up doing on the prayer side. I think it's why we've all struggled with the prayer life. I mean, I've thought the same thing. When you're talking about that, Jace, you want me to go preach the gospel. Easy. You want to put me in a room where I don't care who they are. I am very equipped and very confident and capable of guiding the direction to talk about Jesus. You want to talk about a rhythm of prayer, that. That's harder. I'm not. I haven't done well at that, and I think I haven't done well, at that, because it's relatively recent in the last, you know, five years that I've actually began to see. The thing is way more relational than I have in the past. And so those that my formation was get the right doctrine, get the right system, get the right thing. And that was most of my formation as a Christian adult. And so those, those habits that hard entering into that abiding real relationship with him, that's a. That's a deeper process. But I want it and I want to grow in that because I want to taste that the Lord is good, which I think that taste is the key. Right? That's the whole thing of Hebrews 5 and 5. He says that he uses food, milk and solid food. He's talking about what you eat, what you taste. It all begins at the appetite level. And that's probably where it should end as well, is can the taste be reformed to actually taste God and see that he's good? That's also that same language as.
- [43:48]
Jay
I like the illustration, the illustration you used about the VIP access. Because Jason and I both, and you some too, Zach and me less than Jace. But we both, we have had those moments of sort of behind the scenes on big events where there were famous people there. And a lot of them, you like their music, you like what they do, you know, you like their political stance, whatever the case may be in the setting. But typically when you're in those settings without relationship, even with the access, you kind of leave disappointed at the end of the night because there's just not much in common there. Like, you meet some of these folks and, you know, they're just not what you expected or hoped for, I guess you could say. But the ones I've had the most I left the most feeling good about was people that, like me, believed in God. And when you're around those people, it just immediately comes to the surface and it's like not meaning that I don't want to try to influence those other folks, but I'm saying it's hard to do without a common place to jump from. Which reminds me so much, I feel like what John has been emphasizing in one John, it's very difficult when we're in the world, but we're not of the world to try to bridge those gaps, to make it happen. And so typically we just don't have the same interest and it makes it difficult, like you said, it brings to bear. And you can still engage because you're hoping to impact somehow. But it's typically just at the end of the day, it's like, man, we just have a whole different way of looking at the world. And you still got people with the same problems. They're just not sure how to. They have no confidence, no access. So they may be on television or on your movie screens. And you're thinking, these people are amazing, but if you really get to know them, not so much.
- [45:26]
Jason
I think we struggle with that in reality. Because if you're acknowledging God's presence, the more you do that, the more you have to deal with when you're living like he's not there. So it's like, it's so easy to get a little bit detached because, you know, you're saying your prayer at night, but if during the day. And I think that one of the verses, the last one that they said about this attunement was actually in First John. And it was under the idea of what does walking in the light mean? Where it says, if we. First John 1:7. But if we walk in the light, because there's that being present as he is in the light, we have fellowship one another in the light. Blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. Of course, then he starts talking about, well, if we claim to be without sin, we know we have a sin problem. And even though it's not what it once was as your old self, I'm saying best case scenario, there still has to be an acknowledgment of that. And that gets icky when it's just you and God and you're talking about the day's events, because these things are coming up in your mind. But I think that's the Spirit's whole point, is it's testifying with your spirit that you're a son of God here. You're clean, you've been washed. Your heart, you're new. And I think that power of positive enforcement shouldn't be underestimated. That's why he's using these so profound statements. If anybody is in Christ, he'll no longer sin. He makes those statements. People read that and they're like, but I am. But I am. But he's telling you, look where you're at. Look at this access. This is permanent. It's eternal. And so I think he reminds us, the more you pray, and I think you'll look up one day, and the less of that stuff that you're focused on, or you start bringing it up in the moment, which is, I think, the needed response. I mean, I do that sometimes. I'm like, shouldn't have done that. Lord, you know, there's nobody around. But I'm like, yeah, what was I thinking? And I think those. You start stacking those days together, it'll make you more productive because there is a call to righteousness. And it's so weird that the more busy you get in doing good things well, the less you're worried about how to gratify your own sinful self or thinking God's a million miles away.
- [48:12]
Jay
It's always hard to see our poochies getting old. Sort of like us, right? Things get a little slower. They don't quite get around as much as they used to. Do you see that with your two?
- [48:22]
Jason
Oh, yeah. They're just downright grumpy. And so anything I can do to keep them happy, I'm on a day.
- [48:31]
Jay
So Alex's dog, Meatball is a part of our compound, but she's getting older, and to watch her, you know, not quite those joints responding the way they're supposed to has led us to rough greens. And their mission is to keep our dogs as healthy as possible. Most of us don't realize that our dog's food may be missing live nutrients that they actually need to stay healthy and active. Ruff Greens is all natural, made right here in the US you sprinkle it right on their dog food. Ruff Greens is America's number one dog supplement. Here's why. It's got probiotics, it's got enzymes, omega oils, and over 20 live vitamins and minerals to help with digestion, energy, and their overall health. Thousands of people are seeing their dogs act more like themselves again, and you could be one of them. Alex told me that Meatball, since she started her own rough greens, now is able to jump back up on the bed, which she hadn't been able to do for a few months. And so it's brought some of that life back to her, which is a blessing. I've noticed our dogs have better demeanor, higher energy, and better coats. Check them out. Get a free Jump Start trial bag for your dog. You just cover the shipping. Go to ruffgreens.com use the discount code unashamed. That's R U F F Greens. Discount code. Unashamed, rough greens. We make any dog food better, and it's kind of like that Galatians 5 concept of with the spirit and the fruit bearer. But it says live in step. Yeah, keep step.
- [50:07]
Jason
That's that attunement.
- [50:09]
Jay
Exactly.
- [50:09]
Jason
The stepping stone conversations.
- [50:12]
Jay
Because, like, he stepped, and if you follow, we're on the same path. The problem is when he steps and you step here, that's where we get. And then, look, you keep stepping that way long enough, all of a sudden you're walking the wrong direction. So in the same concept with First Corinthians 15, with the idea of the vine, if Jesus is the fruit bearer through his Holy Spirit, my really main job is just to stay connected to. I'm a branch. As long as I don't try to run off too far by myself, but stick close to the vine, I'm gonna be in pretty good shape. Yeah, I mean, my fruit's gonna look like that.
- [50:44]
Jason
That's why I thought that concept Tyson May was really good about. We're not tourists. We're priests. You know, priests.
- [50:51]
Jay
That's a great line.
- [50:52]
Zach
You.
- [50:52]
Jason
You work, you. You're there to serve. You're. We're not just because. It's almost ironic that we just. You can go from the temple concept about the presence of God and the responsibilities from the humanness, attunement because of atonement, all the way to revelation, he's bringing up everything's new. The temple is, you know, the Lord is the temple, and it's coming down from heaven. It seems to be the theme of the Bible. And then us, in essence, especially in the west and in America, have turned into, like, building temple worshipers. Like tourists. We show up, kind of do our thing, then leave. And it's, like, compartmentalized to the rest of our life. There's the detachment. God's way off. We visited him. It's like a tourist. Then we go off, and I got responsibilities there.
- [51:51]
Jay
Well, years ago, I used the illustration similar to that in a sermon. I said a lot of times we, as Christians, because we read those verses about rest and that I will bring you rest. My burden is easy. And so we look at Christianity and our walk in Christ like we're on a cruise ship. You know, other people prepare the food for us, and, man, we're just going to sit around and do soak up some rays and have some fun and do some shuffleboard. But I said, the better picture is that we're on a military hospital ship. Like, we're in the battle because we're on that ship.
- [52:26]
Jason
But Jesus is on the ship.
- [52:28]
Jay
He's on the ship. That's it, ro. And they keep bringing us the wounded and the hurting, and then we keep patching them up and putting people back into the battle. So I was like, it's a completely different look. You got the wrong ship. You know, we're on the wrong ship.
- [52:42]
Jason
You do some rowing, but you do some. Some encouragement and some healing. That's right.
- [52:47]
Jay
And sharing of. Sharing of what God has done for you.
- [52:50]
Jason
It's more like a hospital, but it's more than that because it's a center that flows out. The flowing out is a missed thing. You're supposed to be that to the city, to your region. And if you travel well, what's ironic, you're like a tabernacle. That's Mobile.
- [53:09]
Jay
Right. What's ironic, Jason, is we were just on a cruise ship a month ago leaving out of Mobile. And this is what made me think about that illustration, because that was probably 20 years ago when I preached that sermon. But as we're going into Mobile river to head to Mobile Bay, to head. Head to the Gulf of Mexico, would pass a big military ship with the big red cross on it. That is the military hospital ship. They were there. They had several military ships there. And I went by that thing and I said, here I am. I made the illustration. I'm on the cruise ship. But those guys over there are the ones doing the work. And so I do think there is something, a draw to that, which is a good thing for us.
- [53:48]
Jason
Well, I remember having several arguments about the Bible through the. Through the years, and people come up with this catchy phrase that said, you're putting God in a box. You know, it's. Usually it was when you read something that somebody doesn't want to do and they're like, oh, you're putting him in a box. I'm like, well, how come you go to a church building? We're pretty much putting him in a box. Crickets. So ever since then, I've used that line before because it is consistent. You know, I mean, you're. You're just trying to make an argument over not changing your life and playing the game. Because, you know, I've said thousands of times, sitting in a church building does not make you a Christian. No. Anybody, literally anybody, can walk in from the street and sit down.
- [54:41]
Jay
Yeah.
- [54:41]
Jason
So, I mean, I do think it was a sign of something good that you went there, but that's about as far as I'm going to.
- [54:49]
Jay
Well, and while we always say we are all a part of churches, and Zach just preached yesterday, I'll preach in a few weeks. But if we limit our spiritual walk to one hour per week, you tell me anything else you do in life that garments you're not walking. That's exactly right.
- [55:08]
Jason
Squatting.
- [55:08]
Jay
Yeah. Where the time put in is one hour per week in terms of effort, ability, all those things. And remember.
- [55:17]
Zach
Yeah. Now and here in closing, I'll say, how do you know if you're a squatter? I love that, Jay. So use that one again. You mentioned it. If, if it's not expanding, if you're not overflowing, if you're, if you're a sinkhole and you're pulling this stuff in, you're probably a squatter. If what you're doing is pouring out and expanding, then you, then you're not a squatter and you're a priest. So you're not a tourist, you're a priest. Priests expand. Tourists consume. That. That is the big difference. The tourist goes to consume whatever the thing that's being offered. By the way, if you're a tourist and all you, if you want to get a tangible expression of this, just go down to 30A. If you're a tourist, they're. They're giving you crappy food and they're charging a bunch of money for it.
- [56:04]
Jay
He still has not gotten over his 30A experience. That's. I know. It's another one, dude. All right, so just to let you know, we're heading in this last section of First John 5. We're going to get into this next podcast, which. Into this idea of the, the sin that leads to death, which I think is interesting based on what we've been on.
- [56:25]
Jason
I'm curious on what y' all are
- [56:26]
Jay
going to come up. Oh, yeah, I've got a few ideas. So we'll, we'll get into that. By the way, at the, early in the podcast, I mentioned our movie May 16th on Lifetime Network is where that's going to be if you. You want to check it out. So we're trying to have Lisa on before that happens.
- [56:38]
Jason
I feel an argument coming on about what is the send at least to death.
- [56:42]
Jay
That's a good question. It's a good tease.
- [56:44]
Jason
You got your answer ready, Zach?
- [56:46]
Zach
I do.
- [56:47]
Jason
All right, we'll leave Boo and. And Pookie bear out of it.
- [56:51]
Jay
We'll see you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.