Ep 1323 | Jase Responds to Rising Global Tension with a Biblical Reality Check

Summary

Podcast Summary: Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Episode 1323 | Jase Responds to Rising Global Tension with a Biblical Reality Check
Date: April 30, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this candid episode, Jase, Phil, Zach, and the Robertson crew dive deep into how Christians should process current global tensions—specifically Middle Eastern conflicts—through a biblical lens. Their conversation weaves personal stories, scriptural analysis, and a frank discussion about politics, eschatology, and the Kingdom of God, seeking to provide clarity to believers grappling with fear, confusion, or political excitement about world events.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Grappling with Current Events through the Bible

• Personal encounters as a springboard: Jase shares how recent conversations with friends and his wife about Israel, Iran, and Trump's perceived prophetic role inspired this episode’s discussion.
  • “What does the Bible say about God's chosen people, Israel? ...Is Trump being influenced by the Bible to make decisions?” (Jason, 01:42–02:20)
• Listeners’ diverse views on end times (“eschatology”) are acknowledged. The Robertsons clarify they’re sharing their own biblically anchored perspectives, understanding there may be controversy.
  • “We kind of debated ...whether even to go here ...because the opinions obviously of our listenership are very broad in terms of what they believe about eschatology.” (Phil, 03:01–03:23)

2. The Nature of the Afterlife and Recognition

• Jase recounts a multi-part discussion with a military friend who wondered: “Do believers go immediately to be with Christ after death? Will we recognize each other in the afterlife?”
  • “He was asking ...Several verses in the Bible say believers go immediately to be with Christ after death ...but then it also teaches about a future resurrection ...A temporary intermediate state until resurrection or something else?” (Jason, 04:45–05:54)
• The essence of Jesus’ resurrection is emphasized:
  • “The gift of life that Jesus has given us is life itself, together forever with the people you love ...the reason you have a new body is so that heaven and earth can come together in that experience for eternity.” (Jason, 08:59)
  • Referencing John 21:12—disciples clearly recognized Jesus post resurrection—supports belief that recognition and relationship persist.

3. Jews, the Messiah, and Understanding the Trinity

• The Robertsons unpack why many Jews do not recognize Jesus as the divine Messiah, rooting it in Deuteronomy 6: “There is one God.”
  • “Jews wait for a human, non divine future king, the anointed one.” (Jason, 08:59–10:58)
  • The difference between Christian Trinitarian belief and Jewish expectation of Messiah is highlighted.

4. Trump, “Chosen One” Rhetoric, and Political Eschatology

• The crew addresses Trump’s usage of phrases like “the chosen one” and American evangelical leaders praying for him in a biblical-political context.
  • “That was kind of the discussion and the debate and I thought, you know, I could see where people could use those things to say, look, you’re chosen by God to do that.” (Jason, 15:52)
• The podcast critically discusses how these phrases are borrowed from biblical language and could mislead if misunderstood.
• Zach challenges applying Old Testament promises to modern political states:
  • “It’s not very good foreign policy ...to make the case for these wars based on the Bible. I don’t think you can do that ...Trump is certainly not the Messiah.” (Zach, 16:19–18:00)
  • “It is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but it is the children of, of the promise who are counted as the offspring.” (Zach, 30:29–31:59, paraphrasing Romans 9)

5. The True Israel: Faith over Ethnicity

• A thorough, text-driven discussion distinguishes between physical (DNA) Israel and spiritual Israel—those united by faith in Christ, Jew or Gentile.
  • “The two become one. ...We believe the new Israel is Jews and Gentiles together in Jesus.” (Phil, 14:39)
  • “Not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel ...it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but ...the children of the promise.” (Zach, 30:29–33:58)
• They cite Romans 9–11, Galatians, and Hebrews to argue that God’s promises are realized in Christ, and salvation is by faith.

6. Why the Third Temple and Wars Aren't the Point

• Both Jewish and many evangelical Christian end-times expectations mistakenly focus on a physical, geopolitical fulfillment (rebuilt temple, earthly messiah vanquishing enemies).
  • “Religious people ...are still saying, oh, this kingdom has to be set up on earth.” (Jason, 45:45)
  • “...Instead of the kingdom is within you. Spirit filled people moving around, that’s inclusive of all races and happening now. And then when the resurrection comes, we simply get new bodies and a new heaven and new earth.” (Jason, 46:59)
• The Kingdom of God is not of this world, nor is it defined by worldly power:
  • “You house God in you. ...The kingdom is not defined in the way that the world would define it, which is why Jesus said, my kingdom’s not of this world.” (Zach, 20:30)

7. Christian Engagement and Political Loyalty

• Phil clarifies: Christians may support Trump or military action, but not as a fulfillment of biblical prophecy or proof of divine sanction.
  • “I’m still very supportive of President Trump. He’s not a messiah. ...I don’t think it’s a good idea to view this as some sort of revelation ...it is a reason, as any nation would do.” (Phil, 49:29)
• Zach: “Trump’s not Jesus. That’s a fact. ...The Republican Party is not the kingdom of God. ...When the president posts a picture of himself as the Messiah, we are to say, no, that’s idolatrous.” (Zach, 50:44)

8. The Big Picture: Gospel and Faith

• The conversation lands on calling listeners away from fear, political idolatry, and binary nationalism, reminding them that the true hope is the eternal kingdom of Christ, open to all by faith.
  • “Jesus is the king of kings. That’s the bottom line.” (Jason, 52:02)
  • “We could be wrong, but I doubt it.” (Phil, 52:49—a classic Robertson closer)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The gift of life that Jesus has given us is life itself, together forever with the people you love.” – Jason (08:59)
• “Jews wait for a human, non divine future king, the anointed one.” – Jason (11:07)
• “It’s not very good foreign policy ...to make the case for these wars based on the Bible. Trump is certainly not the Messiah.” – Zach (16:19–18:00)
• “You house God in you. The kingdom is not defined in the way that the world would define it.” – Zach (20:30)
• “Not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel ...it is the children of the promise who are counted as the offspring.” – Zach (31:29)
• “Trump’s not Jesus. That’s a fact. ...When the president posts a picture of himself as the Messiah, we are to say, no, that’s idolatrous.” – Zach (50:44)
• “Jesus is the king of kings. That’s the bottom line.” – Jason (52:02)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:41] – Jase shares inspiration for the episode: questions about Israel, Trump, and the Bible.
• [04:45] – The nature of the afterlife/question of recognizing one another discussed.
• [08:59] – Jase’s conclusion: the purpose of the new body and the afterlife.
• [13:29] – Clarifying the difference between Trinity and Jewish Messianic expectations.
• [14:39] – The “new Israel”: Jews and Gentiles united through Jesus.
• [16:19] – Zach critiques Christian American political eschatology.
• [20:30] – The Kingdom of God’s true nature.
• [30:29–33:58] – Romans 9 exegesis: Israel by faith, not DNA.
• [47:05] – The practical dangers of conflating kingdom of God with earthly power.
• [49:29] – Phil’s statement on supporting Trump and political engagement.
• [50:44] – Zach warns against political idolatry.
• [52:02] – Jason’s summary: “Jesus is the king of kings.”
• [52:49] – “We could be wrong, but I doubt it.” – Classic Robertson wit.

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Conclusion

This episode offers a clear, robust biblical perspective for those anxious about world events and politics, reminding believers that God’s promises are fulfilled in Christ—not a political leader or nation. Christians are called to faith, love, and gospel proclamation, resisting fear and idolatry, and to see themselves as part of a spiritual kingdom that transcends all earthly boundaries.

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Transcript

[Zach]

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[Jason]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Phil]

Welcome back to Unashamed. You know, Jace, the the good thing about, I would call it, I guess biblical kingdom living and mindset is you never know when you're going to get into a discussion or into, you would call them rabbit holes, but people to live the rabbit hole life is to always be prepared to go someplace you weren't planning on going, Right?

[Jason]

Yeah, well, I left this podcast yesterday and went home thinking, oh, we're doing two the next day. Which we don't usually do.

[Phil]

Yeah, we usually have a day in

[Jason]

between so you can study and refresh. Well, a buddy of mine called, which turned into a two hour discussion because he's like, what? What is going on with Israel, Iran, Trump, you know, from the biblical perspective, you know, so we had a two hour discussion and then I come in and, you know, eat supper, all that. And then my wife says, look, basically kind of the same question. She's like, what? What does the Bible say about, you know, God's chosen people, Israel? It was the same form of question where now there's a war going on. The day before Good Friday, there was a group of religious people, religious leaders who went to the White House and they laid their hands on Trump and they prayed for him. And so, you know, my wife was like, I think he's being influenced from the Bible and to make decisions. That's kind of where the conversation started, which turned into a multi hour discussion with him.

[Phil]

And we kind of debated Zach on how much to get into that because the opinions obviously of our listenership of Unashamed Nation is very broad in terms of what they believe about eschatology. And obviously, you guys have been listening to us, so, you know, you're getting our take on what we think about that as we go through it.

[Jason]

Well, well, I was going to say.

[Phil]

So we were debating on whether even. Go. Go. Here is my point.

[Zach]

I was like, go there. I don't even know what the discussion was, but I'm like, let's take the. I say take the risk.

[Jason]

Yeah, I'll give you our discussion. Because then I took this as a sign, because as soon as my. I mean, it was for my wife to stay up at to 10:30. That. That's. That's crazy. That's crazy because I told you, the only thing in the world that my wife loves more than me, in my opinion. And I'm saying this kind of jokingly, sleep is sleep. But she's like, I have to go to bed. But I think we figured it out. And she was so. She was so excited. She walks out. Out the living room, and I'm like, okay, now I can study for the podcast tomorrow. And I get a call from our mutual friend that we've talked about often.

[Phil]

I just had dinner with him last week.

[Jason]

Yeah, A military guy that I just kind of took under my wing and started to. He came to the Lord. We shared his story. And then you got involved because you live pretty close to him.

[Phil]

Yeah, we've done an appearance. Not an appearance. We've done a. We shared our testimony at his church with his marriage group. So that's kind of got our relationship going.

[Jason]

And he asked me, you can't make this stuff up. I have to scroll way back because we had a long discussion, but he was asking about. He said, rabbit hole question, which I found funny. I'm kind of lost right now, because several verses in the Bible say believers go immediately to be with Christ after death. And he cites the thief on the cross. Today you'll be with me in paradise. Philippians 1. Remember when Paul said, I'm debating on whether to stay with you or to

[Phil]

go be with the Lord?

[Jason]

To go be with the Lord. But then it also teaches about a future resurrection when the dead are raised and receive new bodies. He has First Corinthians 15. He has Revelation 6. So he's like, so there's an immediate. Is there an immediate entrance into heaven at death? A temporary intermediate state until resurrection or something else? Yeah, any. Oh, he sent the same thing to you.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Jason]

And so, boy, you know. And look, he got it right.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Jason]

But he just. And so I kind of focused on the actual phrase being with the Lord. It doesn't talk so much about where and what we're going to do and what's it going to be like. Those verses he cited all had one phrase in common. You're with the Lord. And I made the point. Now, look, this discussion lasted a couple hours, then went on into this morning. We cranked it back up because I had no idea he was speaking at a gathering. And I said, you know what I'd do? I would make our discussion your talk, which is kind of what we're doing today. Because that led to another question, which was, will we recognize each other in the afterlife? And I'm thoroughly convinced, because he's like, well, Jesus wasn't recognized easily. I said, but he was in a new mode of being. But it was the same Jesus. He was a man. I cited several texts in Acts 1, this same Jesus. And I brought up a key passage, which I wind up copying and pasting the actual verse. And all these things are going to come together is my point here. But in John 21:12, when Jesus said to them, now you got to remember, he had just orchestrated the fishing expedition, catching the 153 fish through his disciples. And then they gather on a bank. Here's Jesus with a new body. And Jesus said to them in verse 12, come and have breakfast. None of the disciples dared ask him, who are you? And here was the phrase, because, remember, his original question was, are we going to recognize each other in the afterlife? Because he was convinced that we're not. Because they couldn't recognize him.

[Phil]

Because they couldn't recognize him.

[Jason]

And I read this verse. They knew it was the Lord. Well, they recognized him. And so then I made the point,

[Phil]

which means there was something different.

[Jason]

Well, I made the point. Why would the whole book of John and why would the whole book of First John 0 in on once you experience the love of Christ on a cross and in his resurrection and he emphasizes, you love one another? I was like, read 1st John 3, 1st John 4. It's all about, since God loved you, go love one another, showing yourself. Then all of a sudden, that's the point. And then in the afterlife, we're not going to recognize each other. What happened to all this love one another stuff?

[Phil]

Yeah, it doesn't make any sense.

[Jason]

And so I zeroed in on that. What happened on that bank. It's a vision of. And I answered his questions in that the reason you have a new body is because that death is what separates that from happening. But then Jesus is raised and he has that experience. And I'm like, the gift of life that Jesus has given us is life itself, together forever with the people you love. That's why he's zeroing in on love one another. So that's my view. And the reason you have a new body is so that heaven and earth can come together in that experience for eternity. It's just a new mode of being that I'm sure we'll have fun, you know, figuring out. So you're like, what are those three issues have in common and what does that relate to current events? So I'll give you our opinion on what we came up with as far as Israel, the war, Trump's involvement and our take on it and what really, when the light bulb came on in this discussion. So when you think of Israel, well, most of Israel do not believe Jesus is the son of God. And my wife had trouble understanding why that is. And I said, well, it comes from the Shema. This helped her put all these pieces together. I was like, it comes from the Shema. Deuteronomy 6 says, There is one God, worship and serve him only. I mean, it says other things, but that. That's clear. So therefore, like, when Jesus came on the scene as the Messiah, because you have this promised Messiah. But I want to. I want to read you now. This is a search. But all I did was ask the question, what messiah are Jews waiting for? And I'm going to read to you what this says. Jews wait for a human non divine future king. And she's like, non divine. I thought that they were waiting on. I mean, she was acknowledging that some Jews say, well, Jesus was just a good man and great teacher, but not the son of God. Why did they say that? And I was like, because it comes from there's only one God. The first time Jesus said, I think in Mark 2, when he healed a person and said, you, sins are forgiven. They're like, whoop, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Only God. There's only one.

[Zach]

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[Jason]

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[Jason]

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[Phil]

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[Jason]

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[Jason]

And she's like, well, don't they understand the Trinity? I was like, well, the actual word Trinity is not in the Bible, but we've concluded based on what we read. Oh, there is one God.

[Zach]

That's true.

[Jason]

Deuteronomy 6 is true, but he's God, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I was like, but they don't ascribe to that. A lot of them. I'm just. Blanket statement.

[Phil]

Yeah, generalized.

[Jason]

So that was a light bulb moment for her because she was like, oh, so Jews wait for a human, non divine future king, the anointed one. Well, then you have these religious leaders that are his paid advisors. But most of them believe in this. Even though they believe Jesus is the son of God, they believe in this idea where Israel, everything at the second coming of Jesus is going to happen in Israel. They use passages like Romans 11 where it says, all Israel will be saved. That passage. And we've told you what we think about that. We believe the new Israel is Jews and gentiles together in Jesus.

[Phil]

Jesus is the temple, the mystery, the two becoming one.

[Jason]

We did a whole two podcasts on the temple. Jesus is the temple, temple. And whether you're Jew or gentile, you're gathered into that. That is the Heavenly Jerusalem, the new Israel, however. So we, and look, that's debatable. People disagree with that. But his advisors are like, you're the chosen one to save Israel. He's getting it from one side. This is all about the end times. So he's getting influenced that way. And we said all that. So maybe that contributed to this tweet that caused so much controversy, which was the one where here's Trump as himself being viewed as the chosen one, which, you know, I know he took it down and all that, but it also would give credence to why he uses phrases like he's healed a lot of nations. Well, that's a biblical term. You go to Revelation 21:22, the healer of the nation, and he's the chosen one. He uses that phrase a lot. Well, I've been chosen as this. So that was kind of the discussion and the debate and I thought, you know, I could see where people could use those things to say, look, you're chosen by God to do that.

[Phil]

And Trump's a very smart man anyway, I mean, that's evident. He knows a lot of stuff. And so I think he definitely feels like this is part of his calling. And it's not just that. I mean, he has some other things he's done too, but, you know, I mean, I don't see it as that far fetched. What do you think, Zach?

[Zach]

Yeah, I mean, it's been a strange world. I mean, I think that the, the, from the perspective of like an eschatology, that, that, that's been a dominant presence in politics for a while. I think it's not very good foreign policy, right. To, to make the case for these wars based on the Bible. I don't think that, I don't think you can do that. So I've, you know, if you. Now, there may be a case for, for, you know, Israel defending themselves, for sure. I mean, I think what happened, you know, when they were essentially invaded by terrorists, I mean, like, go defend yourself, go. Yes. I mean, I have no issue with that whatsoever. I don't think it's connected to like kind of what the orbit that surrounds Trump. And I do think that it's dangerous. Trump is certainly not the Messiah. I think you get like Romans 9, 10, and 11 or like Key. That's key text. Right. So that's where a lot of the, a lot of it goes down. A lot of the dis. Discussion goes down. So if you're on the, the, if you come in, if you're coming from the perspective that because what they're saying is, is the Bible says that anyone who comes against Israel, God's chosen people, God's going to curse them and anyone who, who defends them will be blessed. And, and that's, that's, that's a passage in Genesis. And then when you get to Romans, you know, 9, 10 and 11, Paul is kind of laying out this argument. I think that's where a lot, in my opinion, where a lot of the, the misconception comes from. Look, there's different opinions on this. I don't hold to the opinion. I actually hold to the opinion when he says in Romans 9 that it's not all, not all of people who have the DNA of Israel are actually Israel. And I think he's making an argument that, that it's actually the children of faith, that this is in Christ where they would. But they might push back and say, well, you read a passage like Romans 11, which says that for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For just as you were one time disobedient to God, but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, so they too now have been disobedient in order that by mercy, in order that by the mercy shown to you, they may also receive the mercy. And so they say, well, if the gifts of God are irrevocable, the promises of God are irrevocable. God's made a promise to Israel and he's going to see it through. I still think you're misinterpreting the text because that's what they hang on, by the way. That's why they're saying, no, God's going to save all of Israel, like DNA Israel. First of all, I think you have a difficult time even knowing who that is because a lot of those records, particularly with the priesthood, were destroyed in AD 70 when the temple was destroyed. And so that kind of morphs. Well, who is that? Is it the nation of Israel that we see today? Is that the same thing that we see and Second Temple Judaism? These are all the questions that I would ask. And then more importantly, I think that when you think about the, like, the way Paul's presenting Jesus is he's presenting Jesus as the fulfillment of all of it. And so he says that in, I think it's in Second Corinthians, I think one, he says that the promises of God are yes and amen in him. So when it says that God's promises are irrevocable, that's not the. No one's Debating that. The question is, how does God fulfill his promise? How does God fulfill his covenant? And I think the clear teaching of Romans 9, 10, and 11 is that God is fulfilling the covenant in Christ. That's the whole point of Colossians. In Christ, the fullness of deity lives in bodily form. It's in Christ. In Christ. In. In Christ, we are two people. Two. Two nations made into one. And so when we try to separate that out and say, well, you got the church over here, and that's. God's doing this thing over here with the church, and then there's a separate thing over here he's doing, I'm like, it doesn't really seem to be the big picture of what I'm reading in Scripture. And so I know that's controversial, but I think we end up diminishing the fact that, you know, you're. You're actually the temple now. You believer. You're. You're the temple of the Holy Spirit.

[Phil]

You're.

[Zach]

You house God in you. And it's much more. The kingdom is. Is. Is not defined in the way that the world would define it, which is why Jesus said, my kingdom's not at this world. You're not going to define it like the world defines kingdoms. Wow. Well, it's. It's not of this world. And I feel like what we're trying to do is we're saying, yeah, we. We believe that, but then we try to define it like. Like a worldly kingdom, and it just doesn't fit. So I'll be honest. For a while, I just assumed that health insurance is one of those things that you just don't question. You pick your plan, you pay your move on. But the more I thought about it, I was like, you know what? That doesn't really align with how I want to leave my family. And by the way, it was incredibly expensive as well. And that's when my family started to look into Christian healthcare ministries. Chm. CHM is a Christian alternative to health insurance that cost about half the cost of traditional marketplace plans. Yes, the savings are real, and we definitely felt that in our monthly budget. But what really mattered to me was that this is a nonprofit ministry, and I'm not paying into some company's profit margin. I'm actually joining a community of believers who share each other's medical bills. And also, you know what else? They lift you up in prayer. There's also real freedom. We're not stuck in some limited network. We can choose the doctor, the surgeon, or the hospital. That actually makes sense. For us, CHM is offering four flexible, low cost programs for every stage of life so you can enroll or switch anytime without waiting on open enrollment. And with CHM's care solutions, you get access to virtual visits, prescription savings, surgery support, and more. The cost difference is absolutely shocking and you get to be a part of a real community, probably the way Christians should. Should have been doing healthcare all along. So why limit yourself for no reason? Make the switch today before getting locked into another insurance plan. Start today by visiting chministries.orgunashamed and use promo code unashamed for a 50 credit toward your first month. That's chministries.org and use promo code unashamed.

[Phil]

Any believer Zach has to know that Paul made clearly all the way through Romans 9, 10, 11 and other places in scripture that the Jewish people, this idea of being anti Semitic or anti Jewish because they didn't accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah is crazy because Jesus came into the Jewish nation. He was born a Jew and opened the door for all of us. So there's no room for that. So whatever that explanation is for the last 2000 years of this anti Jewish and anti Semitic thing, which is, by the way, what has ignited the whole Arab world and the Middle east anyway, it's been pretty much everybody against Israel. And I think that's one of the reasons why the US has been so supportive, and I am, because we were grafted into them according to Paul's own language. But all Israel was by faith, which is why we go back to Abraham, we see, and you talk about Melchizedek on a couple of podcasts or earlier podcasts, Zach. And the idea is all that predates Israel. I mean, people of faith predate.

[Zach]

Well, that's what he says.

[Phil]

That's what he says.

[Zach]

I mean, he basically says in Hebrews that you realize that Levi was essentially, you know, Phil would always say the famous line that burst forth from his sister's loins, which is so provocative, but that's really what the Hebrew writer's doing too. He said, hey, you realize that Levi, your entire priesthood was in the loins of Abraham. He was in, he literally was in his DNA. He was, he would the. The. He was stored up. And think about the lineage of how the tribe of Levi came. What Levi. The Levites came from Jacob, who was the son of. Of.

[Jason]

Of.

[Zach]

Of Isaac, who was the son of Abraham. So you. And so like those 12 tribes were the 12 sons of Jacob. And so Jacob was the son Israel. Jacob is Israel. Jacob was the son of Isaac and Isaac was the son of Abraham. So the point the Hebrew writers making is Levi is in the loins of Abraham. And who did Levi and who did Abraham tied to?

[Phil]

Melchizedek.

[Zach]

Yeah, Melchizedek, Yeah. And so Jesus being established in that, in that sense. And I think this is key. This is so key. Think about the whole point of the Book of Hebrews. I'm like, how are we, how are we not seeing this? How are we not trying to lead Jewish people to Christ? I mean, this is not like, like we want to lead you to Christ. That's the whole point of the Book of Hebrews that he says, if, if perfection, brother, since we have. He says, if perfection could have come through the Levitical priesthood, this is in 7, 11, what further need would there have been for another priest to rise in the order of Melchizedek rather than one named after the order of Aaron? In other words, if it could have came through that priesthood, it would have come through that priesthood. But it didn't. And then he goes on to say, and furthermore, basically, if there's a change in the priesthood, verse 12, then guess what? Well, now there's another implication. There is necessarily a change in the law as well. So if the priesthood has to be changed, guess what else has to be changed?

[Jason]

The law.

[Zach]

And then, and then the big one is, and if that has to be changed, then the temple system itself has to be changed. And if, and if that has to be changed into something new, then the sacrifice itself must be changed and it must be sufficient. So he's actually laying out the case. He's actually showing that, that the story of Israel is like the first 75%, maybe the first 90% of the whole story, but that last 10% ends up being the main point, which is Jesus. So it's not that we're replacing anything that Israel is or was. What we're saying is that it's a story that we're being grafted into. And that story, it ends in Christ himself.

[Phil]

Christ, Israel was always going. Jesus was always going to evolve Israel into the two becoming one. That was always the evolution.

[Jason]

But here's the problem with Yah's logic. Practically, even though I agree. So when I went to Israel four or five years ago and my God, who was a Jew and who did not believe Jesus is the Son of God, he made that very clear. Well, you know me, I wanted to discuss this, but he would not allow me to use anything from Matthew to revelation that's out. Well, that was difficult because I don't know the Old Testament as well now. Now I would feel I would have done a better job of it. So I think that's the problem, because all the verses y' all just quoted were past Matthew, right?

[Zach]

So not necessarily. I'll push back on that because I think what the Hebrew writer's doing. I did quote Hebrews, but what the

[Jason]

Hebrew writer is doing is quoting other passages.

[Zach]

He's quoting the Old Testament, and what Matthew is doing is quoting the Old Testament.

[Jason]

My point was you would have had to quote those passages, which I did to him. And look, he definitely stopped and considered some of what I was saying, because he was saying that, yes, this one is coming, and this Jesus was good, but he can't be because there's only one God. He would not get off the Shema saying, you have two, there's only one. I was like, well, but he's the same one. Nope, now we got two. One plus one does not equal one.

[Zach]

Who said you have two?

[Phil]

This is the guy he was talking

[Jason]

to, the guy that I was.

[Zach]

But if you go back and look at the Targums, they would interpret the Hebrew in Aramaic for first century Jews, and they would teach the Bible, the Torah in this way. And even they reckon they did recognize two. They delineated between Yahweh and then the word of Yahweh, and they actually had. The term they used in Aramaic was the Logos.

[Jason]

Well, that's true, Zach, but because we went through all this. But it's the same with the spirit. He was like, well, but that's the force, like the word. That's what he is exerting. Still just one, which I even use kind of a silly illustration, but not really. I was like, well, when you're married, one plus one became one because that. The two will become one flesh.

[Phil]

Right?

[Jason]

We're made in the image of God. That is theoretically possible. Why is he saying one plus one is one? Now I got him on that. Yeah, that is true. But, you know, there was. There was a but. But I thought, you know, those. Because, you know, it's so my default to go to places like John 5, where Jesus is talking. And like, you know, the scriptures that Moses recorded, they were about me. Why. Why would this human.

[Phil]

Well, do you remember when Jesus quoted. Was it Psalm 110 when he said. He made the point about. When David said, my Lord, he said, who was he talking?

[Jason]

I mean, well, he said, my Lord said to my Lord, sit at my right hand.

[Phil]

Yeah. And he's like, who is that? I mean, like he was asking them, if that's not a Lord, if that's not God, who was that? It wasn't David. So Jesus even made the same argument we're making to the first century Jewish mind.

[Zach]

Well, think about Romans 9 again. This is, I think, where I always end up at. Was this hilarious? Because this is like the verse that you go, this is the passage that you go to, to debate election if you're a Calvinist. And I'm like, I think that's not the point of Romans 9. I think the point of Romans 9 is about eschatology. And, and primarily because you read the text. He says, I mean, just listen to this. This is if, if you're like, if you are thinking what we're saying is crazy, just listen to the logic here and then try to, try to answer this. Okay? He says, he says that he has anguish in his heart. Verse 3. I wish that I could. This is Paul speaking. I wish that I could, that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my, my brothers. Okay? My kinsmen, according to the flesh. That's verse three, Romans nine. So he's talking about the context. Here is his kinsmen, who, according to the flesh, the language we would use would be DNA. They are Israelites and to them belong the adoptions, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship and the promises. To them belong the patriarchs and from their race, that's the DNA. Again, according to the flesh is the Christ. So when Christ, as Phil said when he spoke in D.C. one time, when Christ became flesh, he became Jewish flesh, who is God overall, blessed be forever. Amen. But it is not as though the word of God has failed. And here's the argument that he's going to make. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring. Now what in the world does that mean? He's setting something up here. He's saying that, look, just like I, I'm talking about my people according to the DNA. But, but, but I want to tell you that it's not the DNA that actually connects you to Abraham and makes you a child of Abraham, but through your offspring or through Isaac shall your offspring be record, be reckoned, be named. This means that it is not. It is not. I said this on a previous podcast before. It is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but it is the children of, of the promise who are counted as the offspring. So Israel According to Paul here, it's the children of the off. It's the children of the promise. For this is what the promise said. About this time next year, I will return and Sarah will have a son. And not only so, but also when Rebecca had conceived children by one man, our father, forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had not done anything either good or bad, in order that God's purpose and election might continue, not because of the works, but because of him who calls. She was told, the older will serve the younger as it is written. Jacob, I loved Esau. I've hated. He said, well, what is that about? Well, the first part, when he says that, that the older will serve the younger. There's like, that's, there's quotations around that. What that means is he's quoting something. What is he quoting? He's quoting Genesis, chapter 25. If you turn back to Genesis 25, it's a conversation that an angel is having with the prophecy essentially of these two children being born. This would be Jacob and Esau.

[Phil]

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[Zach]

Genesis 25 and the Lord said to her, this is 25:23. Two nations are in your womb. Two what? Two nations are in your womb. Edom and Israel. Two nations are in your womb, and two peoples from within you shall be divided. The one shall be stronger than the other. The older shall serve the younger. And then when he talks about Jacob, I love Esau. I've hated. That's a quote, I think Malachi 3. But it's the same. The point that he's talking about here is he's talking about these two nations that are coming out of. Of. Of. Of Jacob and through. Through. I mean out of Isaac, through Jacob and Esau. And the point that he's making is, is that, that you think that you're good because God arbitrarily chose you as Israel and you think that that's what's going to save you. But when he gets to the end of Romans 9, he makes the point, he says that the Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it. That is a righteousness, that is by faith. But Israel, who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness, did not succeed in reaching that law. He says, why did the DNA Israel not get it? But then somehow the Gentiles are going to get grafted in. On what basis? Here's why they didn't get it because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. And so they stumbled over the stumbling stone. Now there's temple language as it is written, behold, I am laying in Zion a stumbling stone, a rock of offense. And whoever believes in him will not be put to shame. This is the argument that is unfolding in Romans chapter 9 through 11. And it really is the whole point of the whole book of Romans is he's making the case how in the world are the Israelites? I mean, I'm sorry, how in the world are the Gentiles going to be included in Israel? Well, the answer is obedience of faith. Faith is the answer.

[Jason]

Well, just to give you a few verses on that, Romans one starts off saying, this was the gospel promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures regarding his Son. Well, what Holy Scriptures is he talking about?

[Phil]

Old Testament?

[Jason]

Yeah, that's what it says.

[Zach]

Who asked what is. And read on there. What is? What's his?

[Jason]

Who as to. As his human nature, was a descendant of David. Well, there's that prerequisite to the Messiah.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Jason]

But as to the spirit, capital S of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord. So where does he go from there? Later on in the chapter, the verse that this podcast is named after, he said, I'm not ashamed of the Gospel because it's the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes, first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. But then you fast forward and get to Romans 15, and he says the same thing he says at verse four. For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures. What scriptures is he talking about? The Old Testament. We might have hope. So then it says, and I guess I skipped one, I should have read Romans 9.

[Zach]

5.

[Jason]

When he starts that off, he says, Verse 5 of Romans 9. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised. So he echoes what he said in Romans 1. You get to Romans 15. We're back to the Scriptures, revealing this hope. And then it says, verse 5. May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and one mouth you may glorify God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. So then it gets practical. Accept one another. Then, just as Christ accepted you in order to bring praise to God, for I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God's truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs, there's the Old Testament, so that the Gentiles may glorify God for his mercy as it is written. Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles and sing him for your name,

[Zach]

so that the Gentiles. So that the Gentiles. And so go back and ask the question, well, why in the world? Think about this question. Why in the world did Saul of Tarsus, the one who was there at the stoning of Stephen, why in the world that was he given grace and apostleship? And the answer is in. Is in Romans, chapter one, verse five. Listen to this. He says, we have received grace and apostleship. What purpose? To bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations. That's why Paul was made an apostle. So you think, what's the Context of Romans 9, 10, 11, or Romans what you just read, I mean, what's the full content? What's Paul trying to do? What's his role right there? He was given grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations. And then when you turn to the very last of the Doxology of the book of Romans, listen to how he ends it. He starts it with that, and then he ends it with this. Now, to him who is able to strengthen you according to my Gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages, which we know what that was, by the way, because he explicitly says it in his letter to the Ephesian Church, which is that the two become one, the two nations become one people. The mystery that was kept secret for the long ages but now, but now has been disclosed through the prophetic writings and has been made known to guess who all nations according to the command of the eternal God to bring about the obedience of faith and to not only sorry to the only wise God, be glory forever and evermore through Jesus Christ. Amen. So, like, that's the point. It's to bring the nations to the obedience of faith. And so I think it's one of the benefits of the Reformation movement is that we got to see that it is through faith that we find ourselves in a position to call ourselves a child of God.

[Jason]

So, but to put this in context, I agree with everything you just said. The problem is, after we've said all that is when you read a verse like in Matthew 24, 6, 7, where it says you will hear of wars and rumors of wars, see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen. But the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom. Now, we've discussed what we think the context of that is, which is the destruction of this Jerusalem temple that happened in AD which is why Jesus said, I am the temple before this was said. So when you think about, well, what are the Jews waiting on for the Messiah, this Messiah that we read the definition that would come because they don't believe in the second coming of Jesus, as in, then there's resurrection and we're all. They're still waiting on the Messiah, the first coming to come, so that this earthly kingdom known as Israel can be freed from its oppressors.

[Phil]

It's always hard to see our poochies getting old. Sort of like us, right? Things get a little slower. They don't Quite get around as much as they used to. Do you see that with your two?

[Jason]

Oh, yeah. They're just downright grumpy. And so anything I can do to keep them happy? I'm on a date.

[Phil]

So Alex's dog, Meatball, is a part of our compound, but she's getting older, and to watch her, you know, not quite those joints responding the way they're supposed to has led us to rough greens. And their mission is to keep our dogs as healthy as possible. Most of us don't realize that our dog's food may be missing live nutrients that they actually need to stay healthy and active. Ruff greens is all natural, made right here in the US you sprinkle it right on their dog food. Ruff greens is America's number one dog supplement. Here's why. It's got probiotics, it's got enzymes, omega oils, and over 20 live vitamins and minerals to help with digestion, energy, and their overall health. Thousands of people are seeing their dogs act more like themselves again, and you could be one of them. Alex told me that meatball, since she started her own rough greens, now is able to jump back up on the bed, which she hadn't been able to do for a few months. And so it's brought some of that life back to her, which is a blessing. I've noticed our dogs have better demeanor, higher energy, and better coats. Check them out. Get a free jump start trial bag for your dog. You just cover the shipping. Go to ruffgreens.com, use the discount code. Unashamed. That's Ruffgreens discount code. Unashamed, rough greens. We make any dog food better.

[Jason]

That's why all the rumors of wars. That's where they're making this connection. Well, then you have the religious people who do believe in Jesus. They're still saying, oh, this kingdom has to be set up on earth. They. They are dying.

[Phil]

Their temple has to be built.

[Jason]

Yeah, the third temple has to be built. So it's like one believes that Jesus is the son of God, the others do not. They're waiting on this Messiah. But they both conclude with an earthly kingdom being set up before the resurrection happens or can be instituted. And then they're like, well, then we'll go to heaven instead of what we believe. Heaven and earth coming together, Jew or gentile, after the bodily resurrection. So it's kind of on earth, kind of in heaven, because it's united, but they're viewing it from an earthly. We got to destroy the oppressors, the people around Us instead of the kingdom is within you. Spirit filled people moving around, that's inclusive of all races and happening now. And then when the resurrection comes, we simply get new bodies and a new heaven and new earth. That, that's the difference.

[Zach]

And where that, where that plays out practically is, is if I'm not saying this was everybody, but where I have seen this, that if that is the emphasis, then what it does is it the church then will shift all of her emphasis on, on accumulating that kind of power. Exactly. Like the kind of power that has like bombs and we're dropping bombs now. We're like, we're defeating we're and every. And what we're saying is then the power is what's in the gospel. The power of salvation is in the gospel.

[Jason]

So ultimately love, love of God, love his love, love of people. And you're like, well that, that, that can't destroy all other kingdoms because it goes back to the one universal prophecy that everyone agrees on. In Daniel 7, somebody is coming known as the Son of Man, and he's going to set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed and it will crush all other nations.

[Zach]

That's it.

[Jason]

Us, we're like, well that's Jesus. He set up his kingdom. That's all he talked about in Matthew,

[Zach]

Mark, he is the son of man that appears before the end of the day.

[Jason]

And they're like, well what about the temple? He's like, he is the temple. He's the place where God and humans meet. We read that 1st Corinthians 3. He is very clear. Paul to the Corinthians, you are that temple. You are the temple of God. You're housing the Holy Spirit. Read First Corinthians 3, 16, 17. And so ultimately that kingdom is consummated at the resurrection when we get new bodies. But it doesn't look like it would crush other kingdoms because take Revelation, here's disciples of Jesus being killed. But the whole book of Revelation is saying, oh no, it's not over, you can't kill us, even though we die, yet shall you live. Because this same Jesus has the keys of death and Hades in his hand. And so that's the difference. And I do believe that in our modern culture people are using this physical nature of the kingdom being only about Israel and it destroying its oppressors. They're looking for a Messiah who has might and power in warfare, not spiritual warfare or what Jesus came to bring.

[Phil]

So just to articulate where I land on this in terms of just my view is I Agree with everything we've talked about today from a spiritual standpoint, from a biblical standpoint, about Israel, about who Israel really is, from a New Testament perspective. I'm still very supportive of President Trump. He's not a messiah. He's not our Messiah. He does feel led to be president because of what he went through. And According to Romans 13, he is in place by God's power because he's over all things. And I'm not against him going to Iran, destroy nuclear capabilities, destroy a bully regime, all the things that they've stated publicly that they're doing it for. But I 100% agree that it's not a biblical reason at all. It is a reason, as any nation would do, to try to bring, to heal some other nation. Now, whether that's right or not, you can debate or not, but I've been supportive of that. I mean, I don't think it's a good idea to view this as some sort of revelation because that does put you then on the same pathway, in my opinion, with the whole fanatical thing where they are, you know, because they're thinking it's all in the power of a lot.

[Zach]

I mean, we have to call foul on both sides. I think that's fair. If we're gonna like, if we're following Christ, then, you know what? Trump's not Jesus. That's a fact. You know, the Republican Party, and I'm very conservative, but the Republican Party is not the kingdom of God. And so, you know, there's been a massive shift in politics in the last, you know, since really, since identity politics entered in probably under Obama, maybe it was before that even. But I don't think the people of God can participate in that now. Like, so I think when, when things are like when, when the president posts a picture of himself as the Messiah, we are to say, no, that's idolatrous. And, and if that means that we're whatever, I'll take the whatever you can bring at me. But he's not the answer. And no political leader is going to be your answer. And, and yes, Romans 13 is true, Al, but every president, we have to hold that standard to everybody. That's power then. And so, I mean, so I think

[Phil]

it's, which is why I don't want to take away from him any more than I felt the same way when Biden was in, obviously disagree with a lot of his policies, but he was my president because again, I mean, God's in control. I would be much more. I love make America great again. But I prefer make America godly again in terms of my role as a Christian in this nation. Yeah, that's a much more important maga.

[Jason]

Jesus is the king of kings. That's the bottom line.

[Phil]

Right.

[Jason]

And you read it in that light. I think it helps you understand the current environment. But you know, the truth is the truth. Read it for yourself.

[Phil]

Yeah. And I think it was a fair. I mean, I'm glad you brought. And we didn't really get into that next component about the heavenly aspect, but once you thank God brought heaven to earth and Jesus coming here, it does open up some doorways to that conversation. We may have to pick that up next time.

[Zach]

Yeah. And I'll say this one last thing too, that just, just because it is kind of controversial and we were debating, debating on even having the conversation. I didn't know where you were going to go. Jason either. So it was. But because he said you might, we might make some people mad. So I just want to say this. We could be wrong, but I doubt

[Phil]

it, in the words of dad. So yeah, just take that and chew on it. It's just our view.

[Zach]

You could be wrong. This is our perspective.

[Phil]

We could be wrong. We'll see you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.