Ep 1333 | Jase Picks a Fight With UFO Believers & the Internet’s Alien Obsession

Summary

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Episode Overview

Podcast: Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Episode: 1333 – Jase Picks a Fight With UFO Believers & the Internet’s Alien Obsession
Date: May 14, 2026
Hosts: Phil, Al, Jase, Zach
Theme:
This episode blends the ongoing cultural fixation on UFOs with foundational Christian beliefs, ultimately pivoting from extraterrestrial speculation to a reflective, thought-provoking study on the biblical significance of "the Name"—the identity, character, and authority of God as revealed in Scripture and embodied in Jesus. The conversation is interwoven with humor, family anecdotes, and deep theological insights, maintaining the Robertson's characteristic down-to-earth Southern candor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. UFO Hype and the Internet’s Alien Obsession

[01:46–06:55]

• Zach opens the discussion by asking if the others are following current UFO news, referencing imminent government file releases and internet speculation.
• Jase is quick to tease Zach about being a potential conspiracy theorist:

  “I don't believe you... That you're not a conspiracy theorist. Because evidently something happened in the news cycle that, that you're unfortunately watching…” ([04:48])

• The guys riff on NASA scientist deaths, mysterious circumstances, and a story about a Tennessee pastor predicting disclosure that could “upend belief in the Bible.”
• There's a quick tutorial on Substack (for Jason)—a modern, uncensored writers' platform ([07:07]).
• Al and Jase express doubt and amusement at the recurring media hype, with Al comparing it to previous “nothing burgers” like the Epstein files ([02:52–03:10]).

2. Christian Faith and the Possibility of Aliens

[08:38–14:18]

• Jase grounds the conversation in Scripture, referencing Hebrews 4:12, 1 John 3:20, and the Hebrew word for “lifted up,” “NASA” ([09:36]):

  “Nothing in all of God's creation is hidden from his sight...I know nothing is hidden from God. He identifies everything.” ([08:40])

• Al reflects on biblical “other realms,” angelic beings, and sees alien speculation as consistent with the mysteries described in Scripture:

  “We've kind of been doing this forever because we go back to other realms that are, we know from the Bible exist, and there are beings that interact with us and come here.” ([12:36])

• Both agree that finding extraterrestrial life wouldn't shake faith:

  Zach: “Even if you found aliens...I don't think that upends the belief in the Bible...If anything, it could strengthen it.” ([10:50])

• The X-Files, Star Trek, and cultural pop references emerge, driving home how human imagination tends to fill the gaps around the unknown ([14:18]).

3. Reason, Science, and the Bible’s Place

[15:12–18:57]

• Zach and Al emphasize the long Christian tradition of reconciling scientific discovery with faith.
• Quote from Zach:

  “Science is never in contradiction with the Scripture... If you find a contradiction, then one of two things has happened. Either your interpretation of Scripture is wrong or your science is wrong, but they're not going to contradict each other…” ([15:12])

• Personal opinions split: Zach doubts any “aliens” will be found while Al sees the possibility as plausible and biblically conceivable ([18:30]).

4. Anecdotes & Astrophysics

[18:57–23:43]

• Jase recalls meeting an astrophysicist on the riverbank, who convinced him of the Earth’s unique, special character based on software models and select biblical passages ([18:57]):

  “He gave us basically about a five, six hour presentation...[He] was convinced that there's no other life forms.” ([20:31])

• The conversation briefly detours into sponsor readouts and lighter family reminiscences.

5. The Anthropic Principle and Cosmic Odds

[23:43–29:46]

• Zach discusses the anthropic principle and the astronomical fine-tuning required for life:

  “The odds of life anywhere in the universe...it's so overwhelming that there shouldn't be life in the universe, but there is.” ([23:43])

• The math and probability discussed underscore the “razor’s edge” balance that makes life on Earth possible.

6. From Aliens to ‘The Name’: Deepening the Conversation

[29:46–54:55]

• Jase makes a seamless transition from aliens back to biblical doctrine, focusing on the scriptural concept of “the Name”—God’s revealed identity, reputation, and authority ([30:02–30:10]).
• The trio explores:
  • The Old Testament usage of “the Name” (esp. in Exodus and Deuteronomy)
  • The connection between bearing God’s name, living out faith, and commandment to “not take the Lord’s name in vain” as more than mere speech—but as a question of how one lives and represents God ([36:42], [54:01])
  • Jesus as the “Name above every name” (Philippians 2:9–11)
• Family analogy: Jase shares a story of his son, Reed, warding off his daughter’s iPad plea with:

  “I went with, we're Robertsons. We don't have iPads.” ([38:24])

• Zach speaks about the depth of praying “in Jesus’ name,” moving beyond a mere formula to a request aligned with God’s true character and will:

  “It's not...a magic password...it's way more and way deeper than that...Would this be aligned with who you are, with what you have revealed and what your will is for my life? I want what you want. And those prayers are always answered yes and amen in him.” ([49:52], [54:55])

• Biblical history is traced: God’s progressive self-revelation—first as "El Shaddai" (God Almighty), then Yahweh, ultimately as Jesus ([41:42]).

7. Living as Image-Bearers: Divine Brand & Witness

[35:42–55:47]

• The group discusses “making a name”:
  • Humanity’s ancient attempt at Babel (“let us build…so we may make a name for ourselves,” Genesis 11:4 – [46:29])
  • The risk of profaning God’s name by misrepresenting Him through a hypocritical life ([50:20–54:01])
• Jase:

  “This is God's name—is his seal of ownership put on us...” ([50:20])

• The segment concludes with the theme that carrying the Name is about reflecting God’s character, not just avoiding certain language.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote/Note | |-----------|---------|------------| | 04:48 | Jase | “I don't believe you... That you're not a conspiracy theorist. Because evidently something happened in the news cycle...” | | 08:40 | Jase | “Nothing in all of God's creation is hidden from his sight...He identifies everything.” | | 10:50 | Zach | “Even if you found aliens... I don't think that upends the belief in the Bible... could strengthen it.” | | 15:12 | Zach | “Science is never in contradiction with the Scripture... if you find a contradiction, then one of two things has happened...” | | 18:30 | Al | “I'll go on record as going the other way. So, Jase, once again, here you are. You're the arbiter, you're the middle, you're the man. What do you say?” | | 20:31 | Jase | “He gave us basically about a five, six hour presentation... he was convinced that there's no other life forms.” | | 23:43 | Zach | “...the odds are completely against there being life anywhere in the universe. And yet there is life here.” | | 30:10 | Jase | “I just think it's interesting that the Bible uses the word name translated into English as something different than usually the way we use a name.” | | 39:49 | Jase | “I went with, we're Robertsons. We don't have iPads... She was like, oh. Kind of like, oh, I didn't realize that having the last name Robertson means we just don't do iPads.” | | 49:52 | Zach | “When you understand, in light of what we're talking about here, when I pray for something in the name of Jesus...I want what you want. And those prayers are always answered yes and amen in him.” | | 54:01 | Jase | “When you start looking at all this... you will see a theme from Acts 2 all the way to the end, they came up with that phrase... In the name of Jesus...” | | 55:47 | Zach | “It's not...a magic password...It's an alignment with Him. When we pray in his name, that's what it ultimately means, I think.” |

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• UFOs, News, & Cultural Obsession: [01:46–08:38]
• Faith and Aliens: [08:38–14:18]
• Science, the Bible, and Probability: [15:12–18:57], [23:43–29:46]
• Astrophysicist’s Argument: [18:57–23:43]
• Philosophy of the Name: [29:46–55:47]

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Structure & Flow

• Begins with playful banter and cultural commentary on UFO-mania.
• Moves through skepticism, faith-based reasoning, and a scientific outlook.
• Transitions deftly into deep biblical teaching on “the Name,” using both scholarly references and relatable family stories.
• Throughout, the hosts maintain an accessible, honest, and often humorous tone.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode of Unashamed uses the UFO craze as a springboard into a much richer conversation about how Christians should navigate unanswerable questions, scientific revelations, and the enduring core of biblical truth. The Robertsons urge listeners to ground themselves in God’s word and God’s name—His character, His revelation, and His ownership of believers—rather than chasing after cultural obsessions or fears. The story comes full circle as they remind us that bearing "the Name" is about how we reflect God's image both in belief and daily action, and that faith in Christ is never undermined by an honest search for truth.

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Transcript

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[Jason]

I am unashamed.

[Zach]

What about you?

[Al]

So welcome back to Unashamed. It's always good to be with you guys. We love Unashamed Nation. So thank you guys for tuning in with us. We were about to come on the air and Zach asked Jason and I a question. Zach, do you want to re. Ask that now that cameras are rolling? Because Jason and I said it was

[Zach]

a very simple question. But before I ask Josh, do we have any coffee?

[Jason]

No, it wasn't coffee. I got some.

[Al]

Yeah, we. I got some.

[Zach]

Are we out of coffee?

[Jason]

I.

[Zach]

We're out of. We're out of coffee.

[Jason]

Always remember, always remember this. There's two kinds of people on the planet. People who drink coffee and those who watch other people drink coffee. So here you go.

[Al]

And there are also people that never run out of coffee. That's.

[Zach]

I want to be in the. I want to be in the category of the coffee drinkers, but we don't have me coffee. The question I asked was if you guys been keeping up with any of this UFO stuff. It's kind of. They're supposed to. Well, first of all, have y' all kept up with anything going on in the UFO world?

[Jason]

You don't want to know what I think when you ask a question like that. You want me to tell you what I really think? What do you think?

[Zach]

What do you really think?

[Jason]

What kind of question is that?

[Zach]

I mean, I'm in it. Just spooky. I'm in the news cycle, though. Yeah, the news cycle. So you gotta, you gotta read the news, you know, and if you read the news and to find out what's going on with what people call current events. A current event is a, is a big discussion going on around the potential and imminent release that's coming of the UFO files. We're going to find out.

[Al]

But I think that here, here's. I mean, I have been hearing this same noise that you're hearing, but I'm very doubtful because for a while there it was, we were going to hear everything in the Epstein files, and then it just turned out to be a big nothing burger. Then when they didn't release anything, so I hear people say about to do.

[Jason]

I think they did.

[Al]

Well, they did it.

[Jason]

But I mean, they did.

[Al]

They released some emails. They didn't really, I mean, nothing. We basically didn't know. You know, it's just. I'm saying you're right, Zach. There's been a lot of chatter. There was a guy, was it about a year ago, maybe, maybe two, maybe a couple of years ago, that was actually worked for the government that came out and said, you know, I mean, like he, he worked there. So he was basically saying, oh, yeah, they're, they're definitely. They're there. We found them. You know, he, he just, he, he validated what conspiracy people had been thinking for many, many, many decades now whether he was telling the truth or not. I don't know when, when they asked Trump about it, Trump just kind of says, ah, you know, I don't, I

[Zach]

don't think they're saying they're going to release the files is what I'm.

[Al]

That's what they're saying.

[Jason]

Well, get off the files and get on to the. So UFO is an unidentified flying object, Right.

[Al]

Well, they've even changed that now. What do they call it now? Is that they called it.

[Zach]

I don't know. I mean, I'm not immersed in it.

[Jason]

Well, are you guys Tell us the latest news because what.

[Al]

Tell us what you've heard.

[Zach]

Well, I'll tell you what I've heard. Now, you got to keep in mind this is not my wheelhouse. I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

[Jason]

However, it was the first and what

[Al]

you brought it up.

[Zach]

You said every now, every now and then. And I'm not like I'm anti conspiracy theory. Like, that's like not my bag. I actually think it's very dangerous a lot, and people buy into it. But the UFO thing's been interesting just because I've, I've been reading these articles about. Why are you raising your hand?

[Jason]

I have a question. Yeah, or I have a statement based on what you just said. Not a question. A Statement. I don't believe you.

[Zach]

What part don't you believe?

[Jason]

That you're not a conspiracy theorist. Because evidently something happened in the news cycle that, that you're unfortunately watching and you wanted to reach out to someone else and say, have you seen this? So it triggered. There's a spark in there of some kind.

[Zach]

But I have not validated any of the claims that are the same.

[Jason]

Let's hear them. We'll help you through it.

[Zach]

And I don't know the full claim store. I'm just going to tell you what I've looked at. And what's been interesting is one, there's been a lot of people connected with NASA that have been. That have gone missing or been. Or died mysteriously.

[Al]

Yeah. Now that's a, that's a separate story, but that's a very intriguing story because it was like a dozen people for the last, over the last three years. I did see that connected.

[Jason]

They were like scientists.

[Zach]

And there was a girl from Huntsville, Alabama that was basically like, I'm not suicidal. Don't believe it. And then she ends up, you know, committing suicide. So that's one. So I got that up there in the upper right category. And then over here on the. The. Actually that, that was left on the right side, you had this guy named Perry Stone. I don't know who he is. He's a pastor in Tennessee. And he said that they had a meeting, a bunch of pastors had a meeting with government officials that were preparing them for the release of whatever said files because in his words, that it was going to upend belief in the Bible. So these are the conversations that are kind of out there. And so then I subscribe to a sub stack of a guy named Rod Dreher. And it popped up on my sub stack this morning. And so he was talking.

[Jason]

Can you define substack? Because I've never used that phrase.

[Zach]

Well, no. Substack is a platform that, where you can basically read articles from people and they send them to your email. And I'm always kind of.

[Al]

It's, it's Jace. It's a place where mostly writers and thinkers that can go and have uncensored views. I mean, they're, they're. They're wanting to write their stuff without having some editor someplace censor it. I, I think that's kind of what, why it started. When is that?

[Jason]

Well, I tell you, the world is passing me by. I feel like I'm just, I'm just on the street.

[Al]

Yeah, we've noticed. Well, I like to read.

[Zach]

I like to read articles, because it's like a substack. So here's why I like it. It's a place where you can get away from a clickbait and then to more people's thoughts, and you can kind of understand the worldview. And so if there's someone that interests me, I'll subscribe to their. Their substack. And then I can, you know, read kind of what they think, how they see the world. And so he had written an article. I haven't finished reading it yet. It was just. I literally asked a question because I sat down, it popped up on my. On my screen. And so I said, how do you guys been? So that's how we got to this conversation. But apparently it's. You know, I'd already saw. I already saw the article before I saw the substack about this pastor. And of course, you know, Roger makes the point, like, why. Why would the government officials go meet with, like, what do you call, like, tier three Protestant, you know, pastors when that. When he. They could have gone to the heads of these denominations and. And he's where we live in now. You know, it's kind of crazy, but it is interesting. I'll just say that there is. I'm very curious to see what gets released. And Al, you may be correct. It may be a big nothing burger, and we may not get anything released, but.

[Jason]

You want to hear my response?

[Zach]

I do.

[Jason]

All right. The first. Here are the first thoughts that popped into my head. Hebrews 4:12. Nothing in all of God's creation is. Is hidden from his sight. So I'm limited as a human. I see things in the sky, and I don't know what it is, so it's unidentified. And it may be flying or just in the sky, But I know nothing is hidden from God. He identifies everything. First John 3. Where was that? 20. Where it said God knows everything, even knows what is unseen, like the thoughts going around in your head. Then the third thing I thought, which is probably the most profound. Did you know what the Hebrew word is for lifted up? Is.

[Zach]

I don't.

[Jason]

NASA.

[Zach]

Oh, interesting.

[Jason]

N A essay. So which made me think when Jesus said in John 12, When I am lifted up, which I realize that I've now gone to, you know, the Greek translation. But the idea of being lifted up. So that should be the easiest Hebrew word to ever remember.

[Al]

I won't forget it now.

[Zach]

Yeah, I want to hear.

[Jason]

But just imagine the sight when Jesus was lifted up. Remember in Acts 1, so people, from a distance, they would have thought it's a ufo because you wouldn't have thought that it's a person without a rocket ship or any kind of mechanical aid. Because back then, I don't think they had those kind of things.

[Al]

No, it's a. It's a fair point. And, and I think it's. It kind of something you said that, that it would upend the belief in the Bible or belief in God. But I think that's where. And you know, I would, I would.

[Zach]

I'm very confident that that's not going to happen.

[Al]

I'm not. I am as well.

[Zach]

I mean, even. Even if you found aliens, I don't think that. I mean, I don't think that upends the belief in the Bible of anything. I mean, it was. Could strengthen a lot of.

[Al]

So, Zach, we got mother coming up,

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[Al]

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[Al]

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[Al]

Right?

[Zach]

I've already got her gift, which is good.

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Right? My mom is still around, and so

[Al]

I'm very excited every year to thank

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[Al]

my point is that we've kind of been doing the. I mean, in the technical definition of alien, we've been doing this, talking about it forever because we go back to other realms that are, we know from the Bible exist, and there are beings that interact with Us and come here. In fact, we'll get into, back into this later with this idea of the angel of the Lord and, and Jesus himself is outside of time and space and it comes here and leaves here, as Jay's described, like into the, into the heavens. I mean, he, he literally left going that direction where our expectation is. That's where, you know, things come here from there. So I just, I, I don't see it as a huge leap for us in terms of belief. In fact, I've always thought, I mean, I've always been a space guy. I love Star Trek. I love the idea of being in space and seeing what God's created. So, I mean, I've always had the belief that one day probably we would find some of something that we could actually tangibly feel or look at or talk to or whatever, because biblically speaking, there's been interaction from other realms, at least I don't know that, that how that relates into the physical universe. But certainly the realms are. Exist, existent, and there's a realm where there's angels and beings that are very frightening compared to what we look like. And yet in some cases they could look like us, which that's a little bit terrifying as well. It's kind of funny though, Zach, because the, you know, I was also a huge fan of the X Files. Did you, do you remember the X Files?

[Zach]

I do remember that, yeah.

[Al]

And that was a, a show that I loved and I was totally hooked on. And the whole theme of was do you believe? Like, because, you know, they basically did the typical TV tension where they have a true believer who may or may not have been, you know, abducted. And then you had like a scientific. The woman, the partner, she's the scientist. No way. Everything can be explained by what we see around us. And so then the whole show is that of course they're really there, but then you're trying to prove it and there's this tension back and forth as well as know, the man and woman tension. So it was an interesting way to do it. But at the end the question was, do you believe? You know, and I mean, we. Do we not ask this question all the time on this podcast? I mean, do you really believe whether this is true? So I don't know. If something comes out, it'll just, I'll be like, yeah, well, there you go.

[Zach]

It comes out. I mean, they thought at one point that if we ever, if someone ever determined that the Earth revolves around the sun, that that would be the end of Christianity. Yeah, I mean, the copernicus Galileo. Galileo. They ran those guys out of town because they thought this is a. I mean, this is detrimental to the whole message of Christianity. And now it's common, common belief, common science. And we're like, no, it didn't really make a dent in anything. If anything, you know, science is never in contradiction with the Scripture. And you know, if. Now the Bible's scripture's not a science book either, but they're not in contradiction with one another and they never will contradict. And if they do. I like what Hugh Ross said. If you find a contradiction, then one of two things has happened. Either your interpretation of Scripture is wrong or your science is wrong, but they're not going to contradict each other, and we don't have to worry about that. And the big questions of life still have to be answered. Why am I here? Where am I going when this is over? And why do I care? Why do I even care? Why is there this longing in me that searching for something more than I can get on this. On this side of Earth or heaven, so to speak? And so those are the big questions that they still have to be answered because this is where we live at. You know what I mean?

[Al]

And Zach, you know what, you know what Hugh Ross's organization is called? The one he's. He started Reasons to Believe.

[Zach]

Oh, yeah.

[Al]

So exactly what you're saying. In fact, I love what you said. The Bible's not a science book, but it does contain some of the greatest, greatest scientific facts ever known, written by ancients. And you know, when we run across them all the time we're studying the Old Testament, it was like, how did this guy know that? I mean, which. Because the. The world basically didn't come up with it in terms of common knowledge until much later than some of the biblical writers. And obviously they were having some direct knowledge come from the Creator. You know, to your point, Jace, nothing is hidden, you know, from God. So he. But. But he. He also understands revelation when we can handle it. You know, I mean, you see that happen in our own personal lives. And I think that's what's happened over the course of human history. I mean, he's allowed it to build as it's built or made in his image. So the ability to create and bill things comes from his innate presence in us. Believer. Not believer either, either way. So, I mean, he's allowed that progress to go. And so it's not like he's surprised by anything either. You know, it's not like he's thinking, oh man. Surprised they got there. I mean, he made us.

[Zach]

Well, my personal opinion is, is that there aren't aliens. That's my. That's my personal opinion. I don't think. I don't think we're going to find out anything that organ. But oh my gosh, they've got like. I think one of the things. One of the things they said there's like these reptilian creatures that have been discovered. I don't, I don't believe it. But again, Jace, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, so, yeah, it's going to take a. It's going to take a lot. You know, I do believe in Black Panthers, but that's probably about as far as I would.

[Al]

Since you're. Since you're going on record, Zach, I'll go on record and say, and I think we will. There will be. Since we have the other beings from the other realms, I think we will find something else that's been created. I think the planet Earth was special to God for a special reason, but doesn't mean he didn't create life somewhere else. So I'll go on record as going the other way. So, Jason, once again, here you are. You're the arbiter, you're the middle, you're the man. What do you say?

[Jason]

Well, about seven or eight years ago, if I had my phone, I would text Dan the Butler and see who this fellow was. Phil and I were down on the riverbank and we caught some fish and we were going to eat them and a guy showed up who was an astrophysicist. I tried to look him up and. But no, no bueno. But because he, he had balk the government software capabilities and he was. He gave us basically about a five, six hour presentation. And we're looking at this, which for. At that time the software that I was looking at on the TV screen was incredible. We were taking visuals through planets and different things and learning a lot. And his whole point was he had one point Al and he's pretty sharp guy because I remember my dad saying, you know, I knew you were smart when I realized how close your eyes were together and you have real pale skin. That's what he told me.

[Al]

Leave it to dad to tie it to the physical being.

[Jason]

He gave about five hour presentation. I'm sure. I don't know if I guess maybe that was before the podcast seemed like we had talked about that before.

[Al]

Oh, this is a while back. I remember I wasn't there, but I heard stories.

[Jason]

If you would have been there, you would have never Been on the side of this argument that you're on because this guy was convinced that there's no other life forms. And he, he based it on a few obscure passages that kind of hinted at us being specially God's special gift. But he also went through hundreds of the planets and stars and all this. He was convinced that no, these are not habitable for life. Now obviously the universe is a big place. Yeah, he's not leave out but he, he was just, he was pretty confident. He, he kind of won me over in that, okay, this is special and this is it. Everything else comes from our limitations. That's why I said that earlier. As humans, you know, we, we, we just don't know what. We don't. We're so limited that we can only see so far and go so far. We're trapped. We're on a, as Phil would famously say, we're on a ball floating through space, traveling a million miles an hour while spinning a thousand miles an hour. Nobody's hair's moving unless it's windy on a particular day, which is quite fascinating, but it makes you feel really small.

[Al]

So Jase, you and I grew up eating a lot of fresh caught fish.

[Jason]

And we still do.

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And we still do.

[Al]

That's the beauty of it. It keeps going.

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[Al]

And we just smoked it on the grill and ate it smoked and it was so, so good.

[Jason]

I like your style. Just take it all and smoke it all and eat it all.

[Al]

That's so good. That's exactly what we did.

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[Al]

It's hard for me to pick a favorite. I guess it would be the halibut

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[Zach]

I was trying to look up a sermon. It's been years since I preached this. It was. I can't find it though, because I had all the stats on it. It's pretty interesting. So there's a concept in physics called the anthropic principle. And it's essentially like this, that the universe has this incredibly sophisticated fine tuning. And so that looks at the odds of life anywhere in the universe, like anywhere at. And it's, it's so like, overwhelming that there's like, that there shouldn't be life in the universe, but there is. And so the anthropic principle is basically saying, well, we should be surprised to find life, because if there wasn't any life, then we wouldn't be here to be surprised by it. It's kind of a weird, like, play on words and philosophy. But the science of it's interesting because it looks at all the, you know, if you look at the fine tuning of the universe and what are the odds? It was something like 1 out of 10 to the 132nd power, like the third. Those are the odds. I'm throwing that math out there. I'm probably off. I know, but it's like something that big. So that would be one out of ten with 32 zeros behind it. He said, how big is that number? So to compare that, they said, well, let's look at the. How many subatomic particles are in the whole universe? And, and then, and then that was like 1 to the 10 to the 17th power or something like that. That small compared to that number. And you think, man, how, like when you start thinking about, well, how many subatomic particles are on one grain of sand, and you start thinking about how big this number is, it's just incalculable. You can't, we can't even imagine how, how the odds are completely against the there being life anywhere in the universe. And yet there is life here. So like, everything sits on a razor's edge. And it's, it's like even, like the gravitational pull, if gravity were just off, just, I mean, just a smidget, then one way or the other, then the universe would like, expand out of control and matter wouldn't be able to form or it would collapse in on itself. So the rate of expansion, all these, these things, these, these laws of the universe, they sit on a razor's edge and they, they're just finely tuned for the, for the world that we have that makes life inhabitable, particularly here on planet Earth. And, you know, Phil used to do that all the time. He would do that little talk about the, the Earth spinning and if, you know, it was off a little bit and. Yeah, so there's all these little things. So I think that when I think about life out there in other places, that's why, Al, I don't really think it's. I mean, I think the odds that there's life, period, are overwhelming. So to think that there's more life out there is even would be even a bigger stretch.

[Al]

And you could be right. And to Jace's point, with the astrophysicist idea about the uniqueness of Earth and humanity, I concur. I mean, I do think there's something very uniquely special. And the main reason why is because God decided to become one of us, which, I mean, that's, that would separate us from everybody else anyway. But I also don't know his plans outside that. I know angels. The only thing that gives me some pause of just being resolute that there's not life beyond us in terms of, in the universe is the idea of the angels. They were created for a specific purpose and because we had interaction with them. And even, even from what we gather from the early Genesis account, even some cross pollinization is, if there's a good way to put it, yeah, that happened between mankind and these beings. So I just, I feel like there, there could be something else just because they're there wherever there is. And so I don't know. I agree with you though, everything you said, because we haven't found anything yet, but we're still fairly young in terms of, you know, how long we've been here as a race. And so, you know, we're just kind of learning, which is interesting because, I mean, a lot of this is sparked. Zach, I don't. You said it about NASA and all of a sudden space is kind of back in the central national conversation because of Artemis and, you know, obviously Trump has kind of fired NASA back up, you know, in terms of, you know, because it kind of. We did some stuff and they had the shuttles and then all of a sudden it was like, we've been there, done that. But even this last time around the moon, everybody was making such a big deal because they had gone farther out than anybody Else, just even though it wasn't that much farther, but it was a little bit more. But when you look at these telescopes, I don't know if you ever go on this website. First it was Hubble, now it's the Webb Telescope. But you see the images that come in from, like, what now? How far out? We can see that. We couldn't see that far just a few decades ago. And now we're able to look at these, you know, these things that God has created all throughout the universe. And it's just. It's spectacular. I mean, it just looks so. I mean, to me, it's like it gives you the endless possibility when you see these things. Of course, you know, then we make up TV shows where you're flying around, you get to fly through these things and see them and, you know, all these other things. But again, I always say it, Jace, that we're made in God's image and we imagine a lot of things we wouldn't imagine, things that somehow weren't in us to imagine. So I always feel like, you know, people come up with these ideas, like, you know, they would come up with the communicator back in the 60s, and it's like a flip thing, and they're talking into it, and they're talking to the ship, and then, you know, 25 years later, we have a flip phone, you know, where people are talking to each other all over the planet. So, I mean, someone imagined that from an imagination standpoint, and then 25 years later, it became a reality. And, you know, that's the way things tend to work. So I don't know. How much can you imagine, you know?

[Jason]

Well, I've been over here thinking how I was gonna segue into what I wanted to talk about, and I figured it out. It took me some searching, but I did it.

[Al]

Is that.

[Zach]

Which means he doesn't want to talk about what we're talking about.

[Jason]

No. Oh, no.

[Al]

Oh, no.

[Jason]

I want to put a check mark on. I'm glad y' all brought it up, because I actually found a verse. I mean, I told you the NASA verse, the Hebrew.

[Al]

Yeah. Which I like that. I won't forget that.

[Jason]

But because I wanted to talk about this statement in three, John, we brought it up a couple of podcasts ago where in verse seven, it says it was for the sake of the name that they went out. I just think it's interesting that the Bible uses the word name translated into English as something different than usually the way we use a name. Now, we subtly do use the Idea more than you think. It's like when someone says, hey, go make a name for yourself. Well, what does that mean? That's no longer talking about your specific name. It's almost like a brand that when people hear your name, you want them to say, oh, oh. So. Because this comes up when we said, when we did the deal about the ten Commandments, or the ten words as it is about don't lift up the name in vain. Which now you see why I knew that word. Because that NASA word is like, you're lifting up the name, but don't do that in vain. So most people think, I think that that's like you're driving down the road and something happens and then you use God's name in a way that's not appropriate or whatever. But that's not what he's talking about. It's more bearing or showing, like to make a name for Jesus. So here you see it, and I wanted to think, what's the segue for what we talked about? Well, I found it in Philippians 2, in verse 9. It says, Therefore God exalted him, lift it up to the highest place and gave him the name. And that exact word for exalted there is only used one time, and this is it in the New Testament, Hooper Upso is the Greek, highly exalted. But then it says, and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus, every knee should bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. So that was my segue. Because in third, John, if you're just a new Christian or not a believer, and you read that, you're like, it was for the sake of the name. What's he talking about? Yeah, that we're, that we're. We went out. You're going out there on behalf of the name, which then when you, you look at what happened on Mount Sinai, it kind of starts to make sense when you look at those 10 Commandments. Because he's like, don't serve any other gods. Don't bow down to idols. Which we talked about is making an image that you would worship. Well, the more research I've done on this, the more fascinated I have become with that third, which, depending on your interpretation, some people believe, since they are words and they're not specific commands, it helps you understand. What I'm fixing to say is that the first two by a lot of scholars are viewed as one. It's the perfect weather to go out and plant trees.

[Al]

Yep.

[Zach]

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[Jason]

I was shocked. I looked up there and there was a couple of big boxes. Undid the box and I thought, there's a tree. And as a wilderness man, I put one of them on my shoulder, dug a hole. Five minutes later, I'm like, missy, come look. And boy, she was excited.

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[Zach]

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[Jason]

All the rest of them are the result of that. Because if you're worshiping God, well, obviously you're not making an image to worship because you are imaging the God that you believe, which is the true living God. So think about that. If you know the object of your worship and then you know that you're bearing his image, then this is what it's going to look like. Three through ten, you see. And so the first one he brings up lifting up this name. So it's like there's some kind of spiritual branding that takes place, which is also why there were old testament laws about not having tattoos. And you know what the Problem was with that, because if you're worshiping God and you're imaging God, that might be a conflict if you. You brand something on your body that does not coordinate with you. Imaging God.

[Al]

Yeah. And it's kind of hard to get rid of once it happens. I wanted to mention something before you continue, because I like where you're going with this, about this idea name, and I like that you brought in brand, too, because the first thing I thought of was like, our brand was. Is called Duck Commander. You know, now it's many other names for many other creatures that are out there that. That different people chase in our organization. But it started with the Duck Commander because dad commanded ducks. And so his. His brand was his name that then built a company that then built products and a lot of other things. But at the end of the day, the Duck Commander was him. That was. I mean, it was his name exactly. Often when I talk about him, I say, you know, if you're named for something you're really good at, you are really, really good at. I mean, if they call you that, hey, there's. There's the Duck Commander. So. So about the brand part, I like that. I like that.

[Jason]

I'll give you a practical example of this. So when I was in Nashville this past weekend with my kids, my oldest son says, yeah, I had a little situation because, I mean, just think about where he's at in Life. He has four kids, 4 and younger. Which is a reason his lovely wife, one of my favorite people on the planet, Brighton, she is just. She is just really taken to studying the Bible whenever she has a spare moment, because she is wanting to put all this good stuff in her kids. But we know how it is. It's hard just to raise one kid when you got four that age, and you see all these other influences that are going on. But a conversation that we had just popped into my brain, brain when you said that Al is he. They went to some of their friend's house, and their oldest, who's four, her. Her friend, who was about the same age at their friend's house, had an iPad. And, boy, she thought that was the coolest thing ever. So Ree was like, all the way home, she's like, I want one of those iPads. And Reed said. So here I am thinking, no way, you know, and he said, you know what? I went with, Dad. I was like, what? He said, I went with, we're Robertsons. We don't have iPads. But I thought that was interesting, because you triggered that thought because he just went to the name identity. He was like, the last thing I'm going to give my 4 year old daughter is an iPad and say, good luck, you know, figure it out. But it was amazing because she's so excited. He was like, well, how am I going to combat this excitement because she's not getting off this. And he's like, I just went with the name we don't do iPad. You're a Robertson. And she was like, oh. Kind of like, oh, I didn't realize that me having the last name Robertson means we just don't do iPads. And he's like, it actually works.

[Zach]

I think there's something else too there that is so key about this. The name that you mentioned. I had a hard time understanding this for many, many years. And I never really did understand, never made sense to me. When saved, if you ask for anything in my name, it'll be done in Jesus name. We pray. Amen, right? So we would, we'd end our prayers with that and in the name of Jesus. But the way I always viewed that and it never made sense. It was like, so if I just tag his name on, I just tag a name onto this and all of a sudden it like works. Like, is this like, like almost like it was a magic password. Add the magic phrase on the end, abracadabra, boom. And it happens. And I don't think that's what it is. I think it's way more and way deeper than that. And here's what I think is at the core of it. If you go back to Exodus 6, which I just turned there because it made me think of it. When you were talking and you think about the Exodus story, this is when the Lord Yahweh, he speaks to Moses and he says, the Lord said to Moses, now you shall see what I will do to Pharaoh. For with a strong hand he will send them out, and with a strong hand he will drive them out of his land. God spoke to Moses and he said to him, I am the Lord. I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as God Almighty. I love this next part though. But by my name, the Lord, I did not make myself known to them. And he goes on in verse six and he says, say therefore to the people of Israel, I am the Lord, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians. So up until this point, God had never told anybody what his name was.

[Jason]

He had.

[Zach]

Just when he, like when he appeared to Abraham and said, you're gonna, I'm gonna bless you, you're gonna have as many grandkids as there are stars in the sky. All these interactions that we read about in the Old Testament, he had never told him his name. His revelation of himself was simply, I'm God Almighty. But he never put a name to himself. But. But once the story of Israel takes hold and the Exodus is the central story to not only the people of Israel, but also to us, because we're in the new Exodus, one of the main points of what God is trying to accomplish with his people is the revelation of his name. Who is He?

[Jason]

What's his name?

[Zach]

What's his identity? And so when you turn to chapter nine in Exodus, he says this in verse 16, when he's talking about the why did he raise Pharaoh up? Why do all this shenanigans with Pharaoh? Why not just do what you're going to do? I mean, clearly God had the power to just kill Pharaoh and deliver Egypt. I mean, deliver Israel from Egypt. Why did he go through all of this? He says this, he says that I've raised you up for this purpose. That I've raised you up to show you my power. That's why he raised Pharaoh up. In other words, I could have wiped you out, and I didn't do that. Instead, I hardened your heart. I strengthened you in your resolve. Because I'm about to unleash some power that the world's never seen. And I don't want you to fold like a cheap suit. I want you to stay firm in your conviction to fight against me, because I'm actually going to use you as an object of wrath. So why would God do that? Here's the purpose. So that My name may be proclaimed in all the earth. This is one of the key purposes and the key goals that God is accomplishing in eschatology. It is Genesis 1:28. To be fruitful, multiply, subdue the earth, have dominion over it. Why? So that his name might be proclaimed in all the earth. And here's where this gets really, really tangible for us. If you look at every argument, every lofty argument, and every pretense that sets itself up against the knowledge of God. What. What every one of them do is they want to diminish the person of God. They want to diminish them. They want to turn him into an idea. They want to turn them into a philosophy. They want to turn him into some. Some thing other than a person. They don't want God to be a person or particularly three persons. They don't want God to have a name because if God has a name, then all of a sudden we had to ask, well, who is he and what's he like? So I think this name thing is essential to how God reveals himself. And in the Bible, in the Old Testament, his name is Yahweh, and then in the New Testament, he's revealed in the person of Jesus, who actually takes on human form, who has a name, and his name is Jesus.

[Al]

So that's so good, Zach. And I want to revert back to what Jason, the story about read in the Name, because it affects everything you just said as well, Zach. It affects our legacy and how we live. So at the end of that text, as you read the Philippians 2, because I'd read that whole text in preparation for what we're going to be talking about today. And I love the next verse, therefore, in other words, so what does that mean to us? That there's this name above every name, and every knee will bow to this, and every tongue will confess. Therefore, my dear friends, so what happens? As you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation. I love that idea that it affects how we live with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose. There's the whole thing you just said about Pharaoh and the Egyptians and everything coming out. Then he says, then he gives us the practical stuff. Do everything without complaining or arguing, so that you may become blameless and pure children of God without fault, in a crooked and depraved generation in which you shine like stars in the universe. Which is where we began this conversation, the idea of looking bigger than ourselves. And so I just find it fascinating when the name is then invoked and then lived what it looks like in us. And I think everything we were talking about earlier, I couldn't help but go back to Genesis 11, 4, when they built the tower of Babylon, you remember what they said? Come, let us build ourselves a city with a tower that reaches to the heavens. Why? So that we may make a name for ourselves. Oh, you're not be scattered over the face of the earth. Which is exactly what God had told them to do. Be fruitful, multiply,

[Zach]

not connected to his name. We want to make a name for ourselves.

[Jason]

Well, tie that. Tie that into the second or third ten commandments or words where it said, you shall not make. This is Exodus 24. An idol in the form of anything in heaven or above, on the earth or the waters below. And then the next One verse seven, you shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God. And it was a direct contradiction of what he said. He said, God, be fruitful, multiply and fill the earth. Nope, they stopped. Basically made an idol. We're going to make our own tower to the heavens and be God and make a name for ourselves. I mean, that was before this was ever spoken. I'm in Exodus 20, you're in Genesis 11. It's the same concept, these truths.

[Zach]

It's the same concept today. That's what's so funny. I sat down with a guy the other day, brilliant, I mean, I mean, incredibly brilliant philosopher. And the more I listened to him, I was like, it's brilliant, it's very smart. But it seems like a repackage of the same thing that we've always dealt with, which is that we want to make a name for ourselves. We want to be the center of our own world. And when you do that, you actually live a disintegrated life. And I think that's where the rub is. I can't. I mean, just think about the fact that there's such a good passage in that Genesis 11 passage, because what they were thwarting was if they can build a tower to God, then that means they can be God. And I think that's what the rub always is, is that I actually want to be my own God. But what's being revealed in the Scripture is you start with El Shaddai, God Almighty. Then we get a deeper participation when we get to the Exodus story, because now it's not just El Shaddai revealing himself. And I'm going to bless you and I'm going to give you a bunch of grandkids, which is awesome. But it's. Now I'm. Here's my name, I'm Yahweh, and I'm going to actually want you to build a house so that I may dwell with my people. So now you have this picture of God dwelling with this Yahweh, dwelling with the people, Exodus 20:25. And then the deeper participation in that is what you'll. What we realize in the New Testament with the Yahweh. And then you have that phrase, the word of Yahweh, then that becomes Jesus, which is an even deeper participation in the triune God. And he's going to send the Spirit. You don't get much deeper than this. You can't get deeper than the Spirit of God living in you. Now God's going to move in you and live in you. But that's all centered around his name.

[Jason]

So I want to give you a couple other things since we don't have much time left. So the four places in the Old Testament where the name is attached to. Because I believe and I listen to some scholar. I apologize for not remembering. It was a woman from Canada. She was on the Bible Project podcast about the name. And she studied this for five years and had lots of good nuggets. And she basically presented, if you try to get it into a bumper sticker, that this is God's name, is his seal of ownership put on us at. Which makes sense. And there was four instances that she showed that where this name was associated, like the name in different categories. One was just people in general. My name will be with you. The city of Jerusalem. It was like, my name will be there. Which eventually had the temple representing his presence. What were the other two?

[Al]

Yeah, one of the texts there, Jason, was Deuteronomy 12:1:7. The name of the Lord was said, he will be in this place. When he was telling about the promised land. Same exact thing about the temple.

[Jason]

Yeah, people. The city of Jerusalem. Oh, and it was the temple. That was the third one. And then the fourth one, which was obscure and really exciting, was in Amos, chapter 9, verse 11 and 12. I want to read it. Think about this prophecy. In that day, I will restore David's fallen shelter. I will repair its broken walls and restore its ruins and rebuild it as it used to be. I mean, this is all looking like when Jesus comes, we know the backstory here. You know, he's going to redeem Israel by becoming the ultimate Israelite. But then that verse 12, so that they may possess the remnant of Edom and all the nations. Well, who is that? There's the Gentiles that bear my name. So I wanted to read that and I wanted to go back to the. In the Ten Commandments. It's not misuse. We don't have a good word for that, but it's profaning the name you're living. And it's a lot like what we've gone through. First John, that your life is not living, reflecting who God is. Remember when he said, if you live in darkness, you're. Well, you're lying and not living by the truth. And that's why I think he brings that up in three John, because that's what was going on. You got people talking about the name of Jesus, and then their life is not even acting like he became a man. They're like, no, God didn't become a man. And so they had their own set of situations, making a name for themselves. So then when you go to Exodus, not Exodus, Ezekiel 36, I think you'll see something interesting. In verse 20, it says, and wherever they went among the nations, they profaned my holy name. Now, he was talking about Israel as a whole, because we realized they were not faithful. They were not bearing the name the way they should. But you see, that word profaned is what I want to highlight on. For it was said to them, these are the Lord's people, and yet they had to leave the land. And this scholar made the point. It's not just you misusing the name. That's what people think when they hear the commandment. It's like your whole life and the direction of it is profane. And his name, which gets down to the purpose of why God did this in the beginning. Why are we here? We're here to image and reflect him. Which goes back to those first two sentences of those ten commandments. Who's the object of the worship? And what's your life look like as it relates to that? So then in verse 22 of Ezekiel 36, it says, Therefore say to the Israelites, this is what the Sovereign Lord says. It is not for your sake, people of Israel, that I'm going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone, which all this is, you immediately start looking forward and you think, well, this is why Jesus, when he prayed and he said, the name you've given me, I want to pass on to them. Remember when he said that in his prayer? Remember when he taught them how to pray? What did he say right off the bat, father, hallowed be your name. Well, hallowed is the direct opposite of profane.

[Zach]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jason]

And so when you start looking at all this and then Jesus does what he does, he's lifted up John 12, he predicted it. Then he actually is, when he dies on a cross, is resurrected, goes into heaven, pours out his spirit. And when that spirit indwells those apostles and they start preaching Jesus, you will see a theme from Acts 2 all the way to the end, they came up with that phrase that Zach, you said you were having trouble wrapping your head around as a new Christian. In the name of Jesus, they were baptizing people in the name of Jesus. They were called the name the way. And that's where. Fast forward to 3 John. It's way bigger. When you read that commandment that is way bigger than some kind of speech on how you use the name, which is the predominant view of that verse.

[Zach]

I know we're almost out of time. I'll say this, I think when you understand, in light of what we're talking about here, when I pray for something in the name of Jesus, it is connected when I hallowed be thy name. So I can't pray for it. Like, when I'm praying in the name of Jesus, I'm actually saying, like, would this be aligned with who you are, with what you have revealed and what your will is for my life? I want what you want. And those prayers are always answered. Yes, and amen in him. And I think that is the difference. It's not. I have this autonomy and these things I want to acquire. And I'm just going to add, I want to tag on the name of Jesus to get what I want. That's actually counterintuitive. It's an alignment with him. When we pray in his name, that's what it ultimately means, I think.

[Al]

Well, and that would be kind of a misuse of carrying his name, what you just described. But look, we'll talk more about this, much more to explore. This is such a deep and rich topic, so we'll. We'll spend a little more time on it next time on Unashamed.

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