← Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Ep 1338 | A Grieving Dad Fights for His Wife’s Legacy, Daughters’ Futures & the Hope of Tomorrow
01:00:14
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- [00:01]
Josh
So good, so good, so good.
- [00:03]
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- [00:56]
Jace
I am unashamed. What about you?
- [01:01]
Host
So welcome back to Unashamed. So, Jace, when Maddie's been gone, I don't know where she is, but she's. She's missing in action. And so that has put me in charge of certain things. Scheduling and. And I've made a mess for two podcasts in a row.
- [01:19]
Co-host
How's that working?
- [01:20]
Host
It's not working. And I'm not even blaming Josh. We tried to blame on. On the Hillsdale, but you can't even blame Josh because this is all on me. So we have two guests because we had two podcasts today. Cuz Zach is MIA as well.
- [01:34]
Co-host
Oh, he's. Zach's not here.
- [01:36]
Host
He's. He just. He does have his son get married this week, so we're going to give him a pass. So we got. We got Uncle Sigh on the podcast, which we're. I invited Uncle S to talk about my sermon, which we'll get to that later because Josh Taylor, one of our good local friends, was also here and he had said he won't do the early podcast, which is what I said. And then I invited Sa to be with us, so. So you're getting to get two podcasts.
- [02:03]
Jace
God has. This is just another opportunity for me to learn.
- [02:07]
Host
There you go.
- [02:08]
Co-host
What an attitude, sir. Isn't that good in your 104 years on the earth?
- [02:16]
Jace
Well, every day. Okay. And Al's lesson last Sunday impacted me because I said I'll never use the term religion again.
- [02:32]
Co-host
Well, it is in the Bible once.
- [02:34]
Jace
Yeah, but I mean the human race has taken the word religion and it's nothing like God wanted it.
- [02:41]
Host
Yeah, that last point. That last point.
- [02:44]
Jace
So I'm gonna get off of.
- [02:48]
Co-host
And then all the conclusions of that sermon, that's the ones I got.
- [02:54]
Host
And I know why he got it.
- [02:55]
Co-host
But you actually, I think quoted that verse.
- [02:58]
Host
It was that John 5 that got him at the end about the. You look at the scriptures and you miss Jesus. Well, because you become religious and you miss who Jesus is.
- [03:09]
Co-host
You know, I read that verse in every Bible study that I have.
- [03:13]
Host
Yeah, it's a good one.
- [03:13]
Co-host
That I actually had a Bible study.
- [03:17]
Jace
That's the stupid part of this. You know, if you missed Jesus, okay, a lot of people think it's no big deal. You've missed it all, son.
- [03:28]
Host
Yeah, yeah.
- [03:31]
Jace
You know, you've missed everything I said
- [03:33]
Co-host
this other day on a podcast. But one of Phil's famous quotes, because a lot of people, you know, he shared. He would share Jesus with people pretty much on a daily basis. Basis. And they pretty much either responded or they, they. There was a frequent line. They would say, and they would say, I think I'll just take my chances without Jesus.
- [03:56]
Jace
And Phil, you don't have a chance without him.
- [04:00]
Co-host
Well, Phil would always ask him. He said, and what chance is that?
- [04:05]
Jace
Yeah.
- [04:05]
Co-host
And it's just crickets.
- [04:07]
Host
Yeah, no, you don't have that. You don't have that. You're missing out on something. So. And that's exactly why Josh is here today. So I want to set this up with saying that our community, our local community is pretty tight knit and pretty Christ centered. I mean, obviously there's lost people here that we're always trying to reach, but we're also got a lot of great churches, got a lot of great pastors, got a lot of great relationships. And so all my years of kind of being involved obviously with a local church is that I've been able to observe other churches. And we've actually worked alongside and done a lot of community stuff together. And Josh is a part, has been a part, his family of one of those churches has a great Christian school that my kids and grandkids have gone to. And so we just have all these overlaps. And so when I think about churches, I think about like some really dynamic families that are generational legacies, which is what we are. The Robertsons are at our church. You know, we've been there over 50 years. We try to impact our community. God's opened some doors for us to do some stuff obviously outside of Weston Row, but you have those relationships. And so Josh is always. And his, his wife Allie have always been a part of that. And your dad. And it's just been a long standing, great relationship. And so when you walk alongside difficulties with some of those families. You're not in the same tribe of where you meet every Sunday, but you're in the same tribe of Christ. And so that's the way I've always felt about in your family. And so, just to start it out, tell you guys what happened, I'll start at the end, then we're going to go back Allie, which is Josh's wife, and how long were y' all married? 20, 20 years.
- [05:49]
Josh
July 22 would have been 20 years.
- [05:51]
Host
20 years. And she just crossed over April 30, which is fresh just a couple of weeks ago to await the resurrection. And her story. And their story is quite a story, and there's a book that they wrote. When did this book come out? You remember? Was it.
- [06:11]
Co-host
It's probably on there.
- [06:12]
Josh
It's pre. Four years. The. The last baby's not on there. So we're five years.
- [06:16]
Host
Yeah.
- [06:16]
Jace
They're only three.
- [06:17]
Host
Right, right, right.
- [06:17]
Co-host
So you have four daughters, four little girls. Yeah.
- [06:21]
Josh
Four two nines and an 1129. Peasy.
- [06:25]
Host
2019. So, yeah, that's been seven years.
- [06:27]
Josh
Seven years.
- [06:28]
Host
So it's called. It's called Ally's Fight. Beating Cancer, Battling Infertility, Believing in Miracles. And we. It's interesting because we crossed paths quite a bit because you guys were out doing a lot of speaking, a lot of ministry about your story. And so we actually spoke at a lot of the same churches. And you actually left us a signed copy of the book at an event, which was awesome because we showed up and they're like, our last speaker said to give this to you guys. And we're like, Josh and Ali, really? They were here. I had no idea. Obviously, I want to talk about the impact of now, but before that, I want to go back, because the first time I met Allie was. I didn't know her locally, although she went to school with some of my kids, and there's a lot of crossover. But I really knew her. I met her in Baton Rouge because Alex was going to LSU and she was Ms. LSU.
- [07:18]
Josh
Well, that's one of her friends, but, yeah, she was down there with them. Yeah, that was. She only got to stay six months because I need her to come back so we could get married. So.
- [07:28]
Host
So y' all were. Y' all were dating during this time. Okay, good.
- [07:31]
Josh
We started in high. My senior year of high school for two years. Then she went a semester at LSU and then came.
- [07:37]
Host
Okay.
- [07:37]
Josh
Said, you got to get back here. There's too many boys down there.
- [07:39]
Host
We got to get Married, you knew.
- [07:42]
Josh
Early. Early.
- [07:43]
Host
And she. But she. I have to say about her, she. She's obviously a beautiful. Was a beautiful woman, but the inner beauty is what came out, which was quite incredible.
- [07:58]
Josh
Yeah. And that was that. I found a video this week, and I was in ninth grade. She was in seventh grade. And that's the first time I saw her. And I went home and told Mom. I was like, mom, there's this girl that is special. And. And she is on the outside. She was unbelievable. But. But that's what we've. That's been the fun of these last two weeks is what nobody knew about Al was better than what was public, which is always. It makes it very easy to honor somebody. And what God did in us when what. What is not public is actually bigger than what's public.
- [08:28]
Host
So. So you guys. So how old were you guys when you got married?
- [08:34]
Josh
Oh, six. I was 20, 21. She was 19.
- [08:38]
Host
Okay, so about like, all of us teenage marriages, which was exactly what you guys.
- [08:44]
Co-host
I met my wife when I was a senior. I was six days short of 21.
- [08:49]
Host
Yeah. We were 19 and 18. And people ask me about that. We go travel places, especially you go up north. They're just not used to that. And we're like, well, first of all, my dad told me, you better marry them while they're young before they get a chance to really look around, because your best shot may be before they get too mature.
- [09:07]
Co-host
But we also had to tell him, let's move that age up a little bit. From where he was thinking, yeah, he
- [09:12]
Host
was a little low on the scale, so we moved him up. But, you know, part of it is growing up together. I mean, agree. You know, we. We all have marriages that have been impactful. Of course, there's probably going to be a few. Few bumps from early, but I don't know there's any more bumps than waiting to develop a lot of bad habits.
- [09:31]
Josh
No. I tell people, you get. I would get married as early as you can. The habit piece, the growing up together. And in the end, I want. I would want for my four daughters, I want them to know somebody as long as possible. You know, they're five years into marriage. I would rather that land at 25 than 35.
- [09:48]
Host
Yeah.
- [09:49]
Jace
Yeah.
- [09:49]
Josh
And I just haven't seen anywhere where it's a negative that Al and I, or me or other people became more like Christ together.
- [09:57]
Co-host
Yeah.
- [09:58]
Josh
As opposed to, I think some of the pressure today. They want to wait till 30, till you're established in whatever it is you're Doing.
- [10:05]
Host
Yeah.
- [10:05]
Josh
And I just, from my experience, I just have not seen the value in that my lived experience. I would do it. If anything, I would go. I would go six months earlier, a year earlier. Yeah, I just.
- [10:16]
Host
Well, the other thing is, as you now know, we only get a certain amount of days while we're here anyway, and so you want to take the advantage and get the most you can.
- [10:28]
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- [11:43]
Host
So kind of go back early because I want people to kind of hear the whole story because it's quite a story. You guys were young, obviously you got married. Where were, I know there were infertility issues. Was that before, were you trying to have kids before you found out she had cancer? How did that work?
- [12:00]
Josh
So that's how we found out. We in, oh, six, we got married five years later. Just very normal first five years of marriage, then decided we were going to have kids. Obviously we thought the next announcement we tell our parents is going to be grandparents and in the process of trying to get pregnant, found out Ally had breast cancer. So that. So you go from, we're building a house and you know, we're in, in the house talking about we're going to Paint on the walls, you know, grandparents. And that's how we're going to surprise them. And in that same room is where Al found out she had breast cancer. And so that was. That would have been 11, October 17, 2011.
- [12:37]
Host
So you guys have been married about five years at that point. All right.
- [12:40]
Josh
And so then we go through treatment. So obviously, 12 months of chemo, double mastectomy, you know, all the lap flap surgeries. Anybody that any women or men that have been through this will know. So it's. It was two, two and a half years of everything you could do, and then Allie was deemed cancer free. One of the big moments in there is right when we got to MD Anderson. You know, with somebody that young, when you go to chemo, they know you could lose fertility, and so they want to give you the opportunity to try and preserve that which is, you know, you would go harvest eggs. And in one test, the lady, our doctor, said, hey, we're going to do this test. Come back in an hour, and we'll let you know. And at that moment, we thought we were going to be able to preserve our Al's fertility. And when we come back in, the lady just looked at her and said, if you were my daughter, I'd start today. I'd have started yesterday, in essence, saying, you don't have time. And one of our big moments was asked, asked the doctor and Al's mom to leave. And I just. We're standing there at MD Anderson, you know, no, she's not. She hospital gown top. And. And I think sometimes people think God just shows up, like right there. He's writes on the wall, very clear. And that's what our faith is built on. And then the truth is in, you know, we're 2011, I'm 27 years old. I'm a baby. I thought then I was a man. I was. I was a child. And you. And I just looked at her and I said. I said, al, we're going to. If. You know, because at that moment, we're trying to decide do we want to try and preserve fertility or do you go get chemo right then? And I just looked at her and said, allie, if you're not here, the babies don't matter. And I wasn't. Let me clear up. That's. I would. That's the Holy Spirit. I was not that wise at 27. That was just God being kind to me. And so we just prayed, and I said, just ask God to protect her and guard her and give us enough for today. And then when it comes time and she's healed, then we'll believe for children. And that's just. It was, it was that simple, but also that big, like, God, I gotta trust you. I don't, I don't have enough answers today. And so that was a big moment for us. And then, so then you, then you fast forward those two and a half years and we come out of that probably six, seven surgeries. And a big part of our story is mentors is men discipling, which obviously you guys, that's what this is like when I hear what you guys do is y' all are waging war on people gotta get to heaven. Like that's in the end, that's it. And so there were men that came alongside us, and me in particular in those two and a half years and told a 27 year old, money does not matter right now. You need to be drop everything else, go survive. And so that's what we did. And so you come out of that. We had to wait, in essence a year after treatment to be able to have kids. And we couldn't, we weren't at that point having kids. And so we did all the infertility things you can possibly do. I know the temperature, I know the days, I know calendars. The funniest story we go around and tell people is, I guess I was 29, we went and played rec basketball and this is why we're trying to have kids. And I shatter my nose. I run into a guy's shoulder, break my nose. Only problem is the day of my surgery is like the day, like that's the day for her. All the, all the things about a woman you're supposed to, that is your day.
- [16:08]
Host
The stars have lived.
- [16:09]
Josh
Oh, yeah, yeah. And so I come out of surgery, you got that stuff in your nose, your pain med up, and it did not go to plan. So I come out, you know, you're waging war on cancer and God heals us and you know, you're living life fighting. And that is one of the funny, funny stories at 29. And I mean, I don't know where I am. And it was that day. And so that's one of the stories we tell people when we go around that is really, really funny. And so, but yeah, I mean that gets you up to where infertility. And then somewhere in that process we. Let me think about that. We did everything and a doctor just looks at us and says, you know, we had never lived by the numbers. And so they, they tell us these numbers that you have this many eggs. You have this many. Whatever. We said we don't. We're not listening to that. But obviously, at that point, you come up to adoption. And so for us, we found out there was a little girl being born in. In Florida on March 12, and would. And we applied with 22 other couples, and they picked us. And so you fast forward to that. And Genevieve Taylor is born March 12. And it's the most incredible thing I've ever been a part of as far as the reality of how much love you have in you.
- [17:31]
Host
Yeah.
- [17:31]
Josh
And some of the limits we, as people walk around with before we're put in a hard spot and you find out it's pretty extravagant.
- [17:40]
Host
Yeah. And there's something. We talk a lot about adoption on here and fostering. Obviously, the. The. The pro life movement has many facets.
- [17:49]
Josh
That's right.
- [17:49]
Host
And. And that's one of them, especially for couples that can't conceive or for whatever reason, just decide they want to adopt, which is a big part of that. So then you guys do conceive.
- [18:00]
Josh
Yep.
- [18:00]
Host
Right. So then there's a surprise after that.
- [18:03]
Josh
Yeah. We were doing our part the whole time. And.
- [18:07]
Host
And, well, John. John Godwin always says, you know, practice makes perfect.
- [18:11]
Josh
We were. Yes. I was blessed. We were practicing. And so Genevieve was about 11 months old. I come home, and Allie hands me. She tells me to sit on the couch, and she hands me this piece of paper. And one of the verses that had really been life to me is Psalm 128. Your wife will be like a fruitful grapevine. Your children will be like vigorous young olive shoots as they sit around your table. This is God's promise for those who fear the Lord. And so I opened the paper, and it just. All I read was Psalm 128. And I thought. And I just look at her. I was like, you are. If this is a joke, this is a bad joke.
- [18:44]
Jace
This is not funny.
- [18:45]
Josh
Yeah, we need to stop here. So she was. Al. Was pregnant. And so then a month later, we get a call that our first daughter's birth mother was pregnant again. Would we adopt again in a different state this time? And we thought for a couple minutes, and we said yes, and made plans to move to Kentucky.
- [19:07]
Host
She wanted her to be with her sister. Was that part of it?
- [19:10]
Josh
And we had had an incredible. We had had an incredible experience with their birth mother. We. You know, you have the opportunity to show love to people that have not been shown Christ's love.
- [19:22]
Host
That's right.
- [19:24]
Josh
Regardless of the outcome.
- [19:25]
Host
Yeah.
- [19:25]
Jace
Right.
- [19:26]
Josh
Which which blows the, you know, in for the world to be loved. Whether you treat us right or not shocks them. They don't. They don't know how to. They're not used to somebody saying, I'm going to love you and treat you right no matter what you do today. And so we had an incredible experience with her. So I think when it came up, by God's grace, she loved us. She trusted that we would. We cared about these kids. Like we weren't. We were going to do right at all costs because of some things that had happened in that first process. She got to see that we would do what we said we were going to do regardless of the outcome. And so I ended up. We moved to Kentucky for three months and Vera was born on August 14 and Lydia was born on August 25. One in Indiana, one in Kentucky, right across the river from each other.
- [20:13]
Co-host
Wow.
- [20:13]
Josh
And so Vera was obviously the biological child and Lydia is our incredible other girl.
- [20:21]
Host
And so within just three weeks of each other.
- [20:24]
Josh
11 days.
- [20:24]
Host
11 days.
- [20:25]
Josh
11 days.
- [20:26]
Jace
Wow.
- [20:27]
Josh
So there's Al after giving birth to Vera, which is a big moment for me.
- [20:30]
Host
So it's also almost like twins.
- [20:32]
Josh
Oh, yeah.
- [20:32]
Host
Because you got two babies.
- [20:33]
Josh
Oh, same. That's what we call.
- [20:35]
Host
Yeah.
- [20:35]
Josh
And seeing Vera on Ali's chest after giving birth was one of those full circle. Like. Like, you know, like I'm back to MD Anderson. That day when I said, God, I trust you, you know, like, I don't know what's coming, you know, that was a huge moment. When you see your wife and then you see her give life.
- [20:54]
Host
Yeah.
- [20:54]
Josh
Through God, but give life to a little baby. You know, I just remember sitting there like, my gracious. I'm afraid I have vastly underestimated you, God.
- [21:04]
Host
Which we've all been there. Right. So that. So now you have three daughters.
- [21:07]
Josh
Right.
- [21:08]
Host
And then Ally gets pregnant again.
- [21:11]
Josh
Yep. So we're our. If you ever hear me building a house, something's coming. That's. That's the consistent thing. If I'm building a house for me and Al or us, you. You just need to get. Buckle up. And we were. We were about to build another. We had sold our house and about
- [21:27]
Host
to build the house building business for a while. So it's not like, yeah, that's how
- [21:30]
Josh
we paid the bills. I needed to buy them and sell them. Build them and sell them. And so it was time again. And so we're sitting there in a living room. This is on video. I was not a jerk this time. Thank goodness. And Ali kept. We had Just met with the architect. He's supposed to give us a new set of plans. Like at 5 o'. Clock. We had met with him and he's given us a new set of plans the next day. And Allie keeps telling me to come to the kitchen table, she's going to show me these rooms. She keeps saying, josh, I want to show you these rooms. And finally I'm like, baby, there's nothing to look at. We've told him what to change. And so finally I did wise up and I got up and you see me, you know, so you're looking at a set of house plans and Allie's pointing out the rooms to me. Well, I looked at them like three or four cycles of Master Genevieve's vera, you know, at that moment. And finally I, you know, in my thick head, this one room says baby's room. And I read it and I said, you see me? Look, I said, you're kidding. And she's like looking at me. I thought, no, I mean, this is. We're five years removed now. So we've got girls that are seven to fives, seven to six to fours. And. Yeah, and so she says this again. And you just see me look at him like, you know, again, we had been doing our part. I just didn't think it was. Anyway, so there. So then you have Estelle. And little did we know, obviously, that within a year of that, Allie would be diagnosed with ovarian cancer.
- [22:54]
Co-host
And.
- [22:55]
Josh
And it's just if I told you all the ways of how far out God, God was and is ahead of us, it's just. It's mind numbing. Even in the worst moments. I said that to you before we started. Of like, I'm the most blessed man, you know, no matter what you hear come out of my mouth today, even though even the worst, the most hurtful piece, that little baby Estelle provided such life in these last four years that I couldn't put a price tag on that.
- [23:27]
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- [23:49]
Co-host
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- [24:05]
Host
Well, Zach, I feel kind of guilty because I broke into your house once at the hurricane to get some candles. So I feel like I may be the reason why you're getting Coke.
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- [25:16]
Host
So in the interim there, let me back up a little bit because between when the twins will call them came to you guys obviously before Estelle was born.
- [25:26]
Jace
Yep.
- [25:27]
Host
You got, you wrote this book and you got an opportunity to share this part of your guys testimony. Your story and what had happened. How did that happen? Did, did. I mean, what was the, what was the genesis of that? Because obviously not everybody gets the opportunity to tell your story on a larger stage. But you guys did like we did.
- [25:46]
Josh
So we. When Ali initially got diagnosed, I started a blog before it was popular. Blog. I think it was Blogspot, Ali's fight something. And really what that was is because growing up a preacher's kid, I did not want to come in town every. You know, because we were going to Houston every Thursday and I just wasn't sure I could handle walking into church every Sunday morning and telling you what happened. Telling you what happened. Telling you what happened. And at some point not being like, I'm not answering today.
- [26:12]
Host
Yeah.
- [26:12]
Josh
And so I started the blog and that was the start of it. And so you fast forward. At that point it would have been in 11. So at that point we're at A. You're eight years in, I guess is what I'd say. With no intention to do what we're talking. What I'm about to tell you is we had self published two books to raise money for adoptions and infertility. And then we. When they. Somebody submitted. Ally's aunt submitted our story to TLC when they found out we were about Vera and Lydia. And so when they knew we were going to move and so TLC contacted us. I get this call from New York before all these robocalls. And I thought I guess I'll answer it. And the lady said, hey, I'm blank. And says, what production company? And I said I do not believe you. This is not real. And she said hold on one second. And she started telling me stuff about us. And I said, well, I guess you're. I guess that's true. And so.
- [27:10]
Host
Boy, you talk about wisdom, Jay. See learned not to trust production companies
- [27:13]
Co-host
throughout the bat well or random phone call.
- [27:16]
Josh
And just the reality is we're not that big. I mean it's just the truth. We're not that big a deal. I mean we're a big deal to God, but we just didn't see it as that. And so they. They end up getting us to do that. We were on a TTLC show for two years. We got to go on that you get to do obviously forgot about the show.
- [27:31]
Host
Yeah.
- [27:32]
Josh
You guys know that.
- [27:33]
Co-host
My wife told me that.
- [27:34]
Host
Oh yeah, yeah. I don't know why I forgot about the show.
- [27:36]
Josh
You get to do some fun stuff like we went today show you get. I mean that. That I don't care what anybody says. The things you've grown up watching you do get to get in some rooms that go.
- [27:45]
Co-host
Yeah, it was fun for a couple of weeks.
- [27:47]
Josh
That's right.
- [27:48]
Co-host
And then it turns into work. But.
- [27:51]
Josh
But you also find out how normal those people are.
- [27:53]
Host
Yeah.
- [27:53]
Josh
I think that's what hit Al and I when we would be. Whether there other places you just realize these people are just. They got kids, they put their pants on.
- [28:02]
Host
Yeah.
- [28:02]
Josh
They just happen to do something other than work at the mill or whatever. And so anyway so you fast forward. So we got to do that. We got to do two years of. But you even your family, y' all don't know this, but Yalls family played a huge part in that because when this initially came up, I contacted Mr. Johnny and Ms. Chris and even visited with Willie a little bit. Like, is this real? Like, what do you. How do you handle this? And just the access. I think that's the other thing I said that earlier is we have had goodwill with men far more than we're ever due. God could stop right now and I will have had my life's worth. Your, you know, all of you guys. And. But even in that, the ability to access Yalls family and say, hey, I mean, he looked at the contract, he looked at. To know what to go in, eyes wide open. To know how bad a deal it was going to be is what it was. But in the end, it was the reason we did it is in the end, the gospel has to be shared. Like, what we knew is there were people that needed to see how much God loves you, even when it's not fun. And so that's why Ally and I, Allie, we're actually incredibly private. I know. Again, you guys deal with some of this. What people think they know better not be the best. You better be deeper.
- [29:19]
Jace
Well, that's why I tell people most of the time that they don't believe in God because they've never seen him do anything.
- [29:27]
Josh
That's right.
- [29:28]
Host
That's good.
- [29:29]
Jace
Okay. And for those like us that have seen him do his God is great. He ain't good.
- [29:35]
Josh
That's right.
- [29:36]
Jace
God is great. And he's great all the time. You may feel alone, but you're never alone.
- [29:43]
Josh
That's right.
- [29:43]
Jace
He's always ahead of you. Like you said, he's so far ahead of you that you'll never catch up.
- [29:49]
Co-host
Or even when something does happen that's from God, they're just like, well, I guess I got lucky. They're not giving him the credit.
- [29:56]
Jace
No, they. Now, they ain't that much luck in the world.
- [29:59]
Josh
Yeah, that's right.
- [30:00]
Jace
Okay. Because I told y' all I'm probably going to learn something here. And what I've learned is, okay. That God can take something that is horrible and turn it into something that is beautiful for 50 years because your daughters are fixing to be that legacy. Amen.
- [30:20]
Host
Which is a big part of it.
- [30:22]
Josh
Amen.
- [30:23]
Jace
So like you said, you are blessed.
- [30:27]
Josh
Oh, I agree.
- [30:28]
Jace
Okay. And most of us hadn't got enough sense to know it. That, you know, I see God's handprint, footprint and everything else on my life. Yes, ever. All the time.
- [30:41]
Co-host
But it is incredible. I'm sure people listening. Because when I heard this story, I mean, I actually, before I left this morning, I was like, now, babe, I'm trying to imagine if something were to happen to you. And then two weeks later, I'm speaking. I'm having trouble with that. And she said, well, he's definitely got his faith in the Lord, or he wouldn't even attempt to do this. But it was hard for me to get my head around. And I was like, because I knew you and I met you, but I wasn't as familiar with Allie. And I said, what was she? She, like. She said, oh, she was quite the light. And she. She referenced one of Mia's friends. She's like, you know how she just walks in a room and immediately brightens it up? And I was like, oh, Lord, please help me, because it's unimaginable, I think. But, you know, I'd like to just kind of know how you've processed that a couple weeks into this and just
- [31:43]
Host
to let the audience know, Josh reached out to me and said, hey, if. You know, I would love to have a conversation whenever you guys are ready. And I was like, well, that's up to you, because we would love to have you on. Have that conversation, if it's okay with you.
- [31:59]
Co-host
Well, that's funny, because she. She said, who. Who in the world from Yalls production team asked him to do that? And I said, no.
- [32:06]
Josh
I think he actually.
- [32:08]
Co-host
Her mouth went open, you know, and I was like, yeah. I mean, it was. It was hard for me to wrap my head around, so.
- [32:15]
Host
And we sat last night and. And Lisa had ran into you yesterday, and you guys have a conversation. Anna was there, and Anna's very close to you guys, and. And was close to Ali, too. And she. So we just had this conversation about you guys and about the influence and impact, you know, everything you've already talked about. But also even now, because it is different for us and. And Jase, you know, we were. When we. You know, Dad's crossover was more expected, and we were actually glad because he had a terrible disease that we were. We were. But at the same time, we were in here within two weeks talking about the impact and the legacy and. Because that's where how we're built. I mean, your situation, to me, is way harder than what we did, but the. The heart of it is still there, which is what I love about what
- [33:01]
Josh
you're doing, which we. You know, we had. Y' all had offered for Al and I, Ally and I to come on and just with. With where everything was just. I just didn't think that was what we need to do. But I can tell you, I think when you go through what this last two weeks have been, let's say three weeks. You know, just to back up, March 27th, we're on a Disney cruise in Florida. And if you had seen Ally, you would have no idea. Zero.
- [33:26]
Co-host
Is anything.
- [33:27]
Josh
Zero. She's on the beach chasing kids. You would have no idea. I mean, I have videos. There's. You would have no idea. So then you fast forward about two weeks is when it got thick. And you know, we're all at our house. What I would say is that, that three days leading up to April 30, I mean, I've told people heaven was as close as it's going to get.
- [33:51]
Host
Yeah.
- [33:52]
Josh
Eternity was all up. We were. You're bumping up against it. You're. There's just no way. There's no way. When a believer is that close to. And the crossover is not a long time. The crossover is the next breath. Like when that breath stops. To be absent from the body is to be with Christ. That's it. There is no. It is immediate. Well, I can tell you the fire is. I can't imagine people living without that possibility. I would rather sit at my house right now. I'd rather take all my girls out of school. Let's go to the pool every day. That is the easy route. I'm not. That is, that's the truth is I would rather that route. The problem is I just don't see where that's an option.
- [34:37]
Host
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [34:38]
Co-host
Wow.
- [34:39]
Josh
And that's so. But I will say that that's. That's God being. God being incredibly kind to me as a man, to my children. And somebody said, y' all know Josh Kirby. The Kirby's have been incredible through this pride. I've talked to Ms. Joe Neal in the weeks leading up to about how do I wisely guard my children and that balance of being around but protecting their hearts, but also protecting my heart. How do I, you know, what's that look like?
- [35:09]
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- [35:51]
Josh
They've been.
- [35:52]
Sponsor Voice
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- [36:33]
Jace
The first time, like, when we make a wish, kids showed up, we didn't know what to do, you know, because, like, I tell people all the time, you know, if you. If you don't have a relationship with Jesus, what did you do? When you get hit with something just
- [36:50]
Josh
like you talking about you, you implode. Your life is what you do.
- [36:55]
Jace
Because I'm like, Jace, if just thinking about Miss Christine being gone, well, I'd be lost. I mean, literally, I would be lost, because she is my life.
- [37:08]
Host
Yeah.
- [37:09]
Co-host
I'm saying I'm glad you brought that up, because that's me. I can always. I mean, because I look back on my life when I was in high school, the only spiritual friend I had when I came to Christ, because it was a lonely life, because I was in a pretty tough place and had some pretty rough friends. But I found this angel who. That was. Her name was angel, which seemed ironic. And we never had a romantic relationship, but we just became buddies. I was, you know, I was a late bloomer in my height.
- [37:38]
Jace
Well, you just say, oddly, you was weird, Jason.
- [37:41]
Co-host
I was weird.
- [37:42]
Jace
I was really. And look, that's. That's a pat on the back, sir.
- [37:48]
Co-host
Okay. Calling me weird.
- [37:50]
Josh
This is good.
- [37:52]
Host
You know, they're both inside.
- [37:53]
Jace
But it's true. Okay. Because, you know. You know, because, like, when people told him, you know, he had said, you know. You mean you didn't have sex with your wife before you got married? And Jason. No. And they said, you're a liar. You know, Jason. Well, I beg your pardon, but hey, you think what you want to. Idiots, right?
- [38:13]
Co-host
I will say that was.
- [38:16]
Josh
I get the content, you know.
- [38:18]
Co-host
But anyway, I meet this girl and we just. She loved Jesus and loved the outdoors. She was the tallest person in class in ninth grade and I was the shortest male. And so you don't know about. Everybody made fun of us, which we were also very thick skinned. So we didn't care. And we studied so much. But, you know, I graduate high school, I meet Missy, we get engaged and she goes off to college. And so I kind of had a six or eight month like break from our relationship. It was like we were going our ways. And then she dies in a car wreck while she was. She wasn't even driving, she was just asleep. My friend was, you know, headed to college. And I mean, it rocked my world. It took me years because I just didn't even want to go there. I just thought, no. Why? Because I kept trying to make sense of it like we do, thinking I wouldn't have made it. I would not have made it without this woman. Why is she gone? But you fast forward through the years and I wrote a book which is. I'm kind of like Jim McGuigan on it. I don't feel it's very good now based on the theology I knew at the certain time. But look, it was what it was. It was. It was just kind of God's story through me and. But I referenced her and I kind of. All those things that I never wanted to discuss or think about. I just felt like. Because now I figured it out, I was like, with God, all are alive. And there's the. I read that passage at Phil's funeral because death's not a problem to him. I mean, this eternal life is real. That's why I got chills when you said that about heaven. Couldn't have been any closer there. And I'm like, we just view it as a problem because we're earthly and we're going to miss them. But I thought, you know, my wife's right. It becomes a glitch to those who truly believe. And so I wrote that. Well, then her family. What I realized in that moment is for the parents think about what they had gone through. I was here, I was saying, oh, you know, what about her parents? Well, they had this fear of her being forgotten. And when I wrote that book and then became famous, they're like, here we go, tell this story. And so they invited me out there and I actually invited our counselor friend to go with me because I thought, this is Way too heavy for O.J. s. But it was one of the most beautiful interactions and celebrations years after we've already buried her. And we were talking about her like she was with us, because in our minds, she really is.
- [41:06]
Jace
Well, she is.
- [41:07]
Co-host
She's not gone anywhere. This.
- [41:09]
Josh
We're.
- [41:10]
Co-host
We're. We're. We use that, all of us, to get our focus right on Jesus in eternity. So it turned out to be a beautiful thing. And it's something that I wish it hadn't taken me 10 years to find a piece. It was like a hole, you know, in my heart. And. And of course, I eventually told Missy first. And we cried and we prayed, but it was like she was like, why'd you wait so long? And I was like, I'm not sure, but it just wasn't there. So I wanted to say that because I'm just real appreciative of you having this courage.
- [41:45]
Jace
Here's what comes to my mind on that. And that goes about Al's lesson, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Well, when you're talking about heaven, okay, that's the truth of the matter. That's why we look at things differently than everybody else. And like you said, heaven was close because death was close.
- [42:08]
Josh
That's right. Which nobody likes that.
- [42:12]
Jace
No, no. And, hey, they don't want to. They don't want to think about that.
- [42:15]
Josh
That's right.
- [42:16]
Jace
But, you know, like, I always think about that kid that Philip brought to Phil's house. And when Phil started preaching the gospel to him, he said, hey, you got two problems. Sin and a death problem. And the guy's. Whoa, whoa, whoa. You ain't putting on death trip on me. Guilt trip. And left. Well, hey, two weeks ago, guess what? Dead as a hammer.
- [42:38]
Host
Because. Because the afterlife is that close for all of us. So I got a question for you, because I know there'll be a lot of people listening that may be going through something similar, maybe a different stage in life, but because all of us want more.
- [42:51]
Josh
That's right.
- [42:52]
Host
I mean, we want more. We want her here today with you on this podcast. So we want more, but we deal with the realities of God's timing, and we realize that a lot of lives are shorter than other lives. She. 37, 38.
- [43:06]
Josh
38, 39, June 9.
- [43:08]
Host
So you look at that, and from our perspective, we want more. You got 20 years, you know, plus back to seventh grade. So tell me how you deal with that part, because that's where a lot of people, I guarantee that, are listening that are struggling with the idea of losing a child or losing the love of their life or it feeling like it's not enough. How do you deal with that? With you and the Almighty? That. The timing was. The timing, I mean, because people want to know. That's the big question, right?
- [43:38]
Josh
My base level faith is when God created God. No one created God. He's the only one that exists. Just existed. When he created the earth, it was supposed to be perfect. We were going to live with him forever. When Adam and Eve sinned, they unleashed all hell on us. No parameters, no guidelines, no timing, no nothing.
- [44:00]
Jace
Evil's running rapid.
- [44:02]
Josh
And so that's how I simply. That's the most Reader's Digest version I can say. That's why I don't struggle with why. Yeah, is this. It's. We are. We're. We're not living in what God created us to live in. So all this actually should be expected. Yeah.
- [44:20]
Co-host
Well, there's a phrase that, you know, Romans 5 is like, death reigned. It when. When Adam, sin and death reigned. And it's still raining, right? I mean, and it's our enemy. Which. When you read all those passages about why Jesus came, that one in Hebrews 2 that I seemingly quote every other podcast, which is, he came to destroy the work of the evil one and free all those who were held in slavery by their fear of death.
- [44:50]
Jace
Well, he overcame the world. Jesus came and overcame the world.
- [44:57]
Co-host
Well, now you're getting into 1 John 5, which, look, says the same types of things. You know, it says you can be confident on the day of judgment because of what Jesus did. And then right after that, in the end of 1 John 4, he starts talking about perfect love, cast out fear. And it starts making sense why Jesus became a man and why he went to the cross and then all the evil world that had contributed to what happened in the days of Adam and Eve, they thought, yep, just another man will kill him. That ends that. And then that perfect love act, him being God, he comes back and he frees us from those fears. And then the next chapter, which I had never noticed this verse, but he goes on to say in chapter five, which I've quoted this probably 10 times in the last five Bible studies I've had since we did first John, it keeps coming up. But then he says, and this is what I really think is the key to what God has done in Jesus and in our lives, because he went on that about perfect love, cast out fear. We can have confidence because in this world, we're like, Jesus and then he gets to chapter five, and he's like, the one born of God does not continue this life of sin because the one in most translations has it capitalized keeps him safe. And that is just where our harbor of safety and security and no fear is. And you get to live that out in a real meaningful way. That seems impossible for people to wrap their heads around. Even me. I know you're a man of faith, but I'm like two weeks after this and we're going to talk about this.
- [46:47]
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- [47:10]
Co-host
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- [47:15]
Host
Even Duck Commander has been using Shopify for many years.
- [47:18]
Sponsor Voice
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- [48:23]
Josh
And here. And I. And that's. I wanted to go back to that because that's what I. That's why I. That's what I said to Josh Kirby as I just text him. And I said, because in my spot, what that starts to, what I wonder in my soul is like, am I feeling what I'm supposed to Be feeling. Yeah. If I'm totally vulnerable. And I'm telling you that's as of yesterday.
- [48:41]
Host
Yeah.
- [48:42]
Josh
That's what I text said. Am I feeling what I'm supposed to be feeling? I'm. Yes. I'm waking up. She's not in my bed. I can't call her. So I know I'm feeling it. That's not, you know, like, that's not. That's the. I'm living that reality. So. But there are moments where I dip into that. I'm like, well, should I be able to talk? Should I be able to take my kids swimming? Should I be able to, you know, a hundred things. And what he texts back, and he's right. Is. And it's what I felt throughout the process. And I'm talking 15 years is. And I'm not that faithful. You know, just day by day, believe, trusted God was. Was out for our good is through this process. God was. The Holy Spirit was building me. You know, if we. If we. Some. Some people only get it for three days. They find out their dad passes away, they got to do a funeral in three days. They got no warning that that is different than what I had to deal with.
- [49:43]
Host
Or like, what you described a car wreck. You know, something like that.
- [49:46]
Josh
And so my point. What it. What it helped. He called it groundedness. And what it. What I take that as is like, this isn't actually new to me. God. God has been faithful over a long period of time to build the ability to see the value in what God's doing, even when it's not fun.
- [50:06]
Host
Yeah.
- [50:06]
Josh
And the intensity. The truth is, if I have a choice, let's say that I could do this same thing. We could fast forward, which none of us are guaranteed another year. But let's say that we could sit here May 13, 2027, and talk about this. It will not be as intense as it is today. And if I have the option for someone going through something like this, similar, like I won't say the name, but the guy we talked about beforehand, that God could be working on them. I don't think we get the option to wait till it's comfortable for us to talk about hard things.
- [50:43]
Host
Yeah. So good.
- [50:44]
Josh
Because the worst thing that's going to happen today is I'm gonna start crying. And then y' all can talk, which y' all are good at talking anyway.
- [50:50]
Jace
Yeah.
- [50:51]
Josh
Like, so if I go back, if I back up and I say that, it's like, so the. The. The worst thing that happens is I sit here and weep. Y' all realize it's too big. You guys keep talking. I'll. I'll. I'll blurt in every now and then, and I'll just sit here and cry. That's the worst.
- [51:06]
Co-host
Which is really, though. I mean, I thought while ago. So now I'm going to say it. I thought maybe I shouldn't say that, but I'm going to say it. You've really helped me understand why Jesus wept right before he raised Lazarus.
- [51:17]
Host
That's so good.
- [51:18]
Co-host
Because I've always thought.
- [51:20]
Jace
Because he loved him.
- [51:22]
Co-host
And it. Well, the way we were raised, you know, we were raised, you never cry. And so I eventually told my dad, I guess wasn't very long ago, I was like, remember that time when you used to make fun of us and told us never cry? And he's like, yeah, I was wrong about that.
- [51:39]
Host
Because my dad.
- [51:42]
Co-host
My dad became so.
- [51:43]
Jace
I don't think so.
- [51:44]
Co-host
Such a crier, you know, in the last five years of his life. And, and we all are, but. And we talked about that. I mean, it's a good memory I have. You know, just him when he got sick and all, but we, we. When he was still able to kind of make a point, we talked about that. John 11. But now I'm seeing this, and. And it just kind of makes me get it. I'm like, yeah, I mean, how awesome is God, even though he knows everything's going to be okay. To cry with the creation that he made in. In these moments just shows you his heart. And it's. It's just. It is what it is, something powerful about it.
- [52:28]
Host
I've said before that, you know, Jesus could have come here any way he wanted to. He could have just appeared in. In flesh as a grown man at any age he wanted to. He came as a baby, grew up, he went through experiences. He prepped his life for what he was going to do, and then chose to be 33 years old, which is very young, to give his life. And so a lot was done in a short period of time. And so when I think of stories like Ally's, and I have many in my past, that people in their 30s that sudden things happen, things you didn't expect, but those bright lights that didn't get to go into grandparents and 60s and 70s and 80s. But I think about the difference they did make while they were here. And I think about you guys because you married young, you got 20 years together in spite of now how young you are
- [53:22]
Jace
getting me, when y' all was talking age and I was going Wait a minute. He's like a kid to us.
- [53:29]
Host
He is a kid.
- [53:30]
Jace
Well, no, no, because I said. I'm saying, good grief, how old, Yo. And I don't want to be, you know, because I. I started to apologize because I knew I was going to start crying when we got into this, but. How long did you have with your wife?
- [53:45]
Josh
23 years. Total.
- [53:47]
Jace
23 years.
- [53:47]
Josh
20. 20. Married.
- [53:49]
Co-host
Yeah.
- [53:50]
Jace
But see you in them. 23 years. Okay. And I just met you. The 23 years were spent, you know, wonderfully wide open. Okay. Yeah.
- [54:04]
Host
And you said it so beautifully. Just. God has been preparing you for this the whole time. But still, to realize it in the moment, to feel the. Know the sadness and the longing that you have, probably back and forth. And I do want to ask, because I want our folks to be praying for you guys specifically. What.
- [54:22]
Co-host
What.
- [54:23]
Host
What's the best thing our audience can do to pray for you and your girls in this moment? What's. What's the one thing that would help in terms of Holy Spirit connection? Prayers for your strength. What's the best thing?
- [54:35]
Josh
Let me go back one thing, because everything I do, I. I am the most. The thing I'm the protecting the most is my children's view of God, which is really important as the thing for right now and forever, but is, you know, I tell the girls, God, God did not. God does not take sin, sickness and disease entered the world and got unleashed on all of us.
- [54:58]
Host
Yeah.
- [54:59]
Josh
Now the timing and all, and God the sovereignty piece. But, yeah, I'm very clear. Sin, sickness and disease is what we're all at war with to keep their view of God very clean, that He's a savior. He loves us. He wept.
- [55:15]
Host
Yeah.
- [55:16]
Josh
This isn't a man that's mad at us. He's. He's. He's pretty tickled.
- [55:19]
Jace
Well, this is one point that, that, that most people, okay, God does not do the bad things.
- [55:28]
Co-host
He's incapable of it.
- [55:30]
Jace
Well, no, no, but I'm just saying most people got just screwed up in their mind. Okay. When they run into bad times, they blame it on the Almighty.
- [55:38]
Josh
That's right.
- [55:39]
Co-host
Exactly.
- [55:40]
Jace
God didn't do that.
- [55:41]
Host
Yeah.
- [55:42]
Jace
The evil one done that.
- [55:43]
Host
Yeah. That's why it's so good to put it in that clear picture.
- [55:46]
Jace
Right. No.
- [55:47]
Host
Yeah.
- [55:47]
Josh
If I was to answer, I mean, very vulnerably is the heaviest thing on me as a dad other than their eternity, which three of them have accepted Christ, and I would argue their hearts, which is how I. As a dad, what I'm trying to watch Are they. Are they contrite? Are they sorry when they have sinned? Is. Does it mess? Does it. Does it wear on them? And that's. They're living it. And then obviously, Estelle, I pray as fast as possible.
- [56:14]
Jace
Well, I got some advice for you, dad. Hey, they do. That's why God gave us a conscience. That's why it always rubs us wrong way when we're doing something that we know we not. Should. Should not be doing.
- [56:29]
Josh
That's right. Well, it would be. I mean, the most real world thing is, You know, a no man can never be a mom, thank goodness. So. But the reality is, I think the world tried it. They took a hard run at it and failed. The reality is, is I. I can be a dad. I can. I can. I think God. God's been plenty kind to me and is in it even today, this morning. And going forward, forward, I think I have all the opportunity in the world to be an incredible dad, you know, but obviously, what a mom's able to do in time, you know, when you're doing this and you're. You're preaching and you're out hunting, is that woman's loving on them. I mean, physical touch. I sent. That's one of the things I sent to you is.
- [57:19]
Jace
Well, she's giving them things that dad can never give them. Plus, she's got to take care of the idiots she's married to. Okay?
- [57:29]
Josh
And I'm the king of that. I agree.
- [57:31]
Jace
No, no. Cause I'm not saying we. Okay? Because I've always looked at. That's why people ask me, you're so crazy. Why are you always talking about women? I said, because, look, I love them, okay? And I said, look. And I blame the Almighty. Cause he put that in me.
- [57:46]
Josh
That's right.
- [57:47]
Jace
Okay, so he's going for that. Okay.
- [57:50]
Josh
Oh, yeah.
- [57:50]
Jace
He put it in me. But I'm glad he did. But, hey, no, we could. None of us would make it without Mom.
- [57:57]
Josh
That's right. So it's the fit. I mean, I would say the very real thing is that I'm disciplined enough to spend the right time with them, you know, to give them time to talk, give them. You know, even today, last night, one of our little girls asked a question that, you know, we're laying. I'm laying in bed with her, tucking her in. And honestly, I'm just being vulnerable. My answer to her was not what she expected. And she said, well, Dad, I guess I expected blank. Well, then this morning, I'm with another one and they ask a different Question it would be that is that right now, and I mean this. God's been with the business he's given us in the last 18 months. I am more set up to handle this than ever. I mean that. I mean. I mean it. I have the best. I believe I have the best opportunity to do it. Well, way more than it had.
- [58:52]
Jace
Well, so you're smarter than you think you are, though, thank goodness. No, no, I'm terrible. Look, you've got out of his way, you've got God, you've got yourself out of his way, and then God's doing what he meant to do with you, prayerfully.
- [59:07]
Host
So, Josh, thank you. We're out of time, but thank you for coming on. Thank you for being vulnerable today and telling your story. I love the power of it. I just want to ask Unashamed Nation to be praying for Josh and his girls and that wisdom for those questions, those late night questions. I know some of you will be interested in the story. Allie's Fight is the name of the book, so check that out as well. And you know we love you. We're always here for you.
- [59:34]
Josh
We love you all no matter what.
- [59:35]
Host
I want to close with a prayer, Father. I just want to come to you. And so grateful that Josh wanted to come and share some of what he's dealing with today and yesterday and two weeks ago and 23 years ago. And it's your story. Through his life, through Allie's life. And thank you for her. Thank you for the example that she set for all of us. And I know as she awaits that great resurrection, it won't be too long for all of us because as Josh said, eternity is right there, just waiting on us. I pray for Josh. Give him wisdom and strength as a dad to say and do the things you would have him do powerfully. And I thank you for the example he is to us around this table. We love you. Thank you for Jesus and your holy Spirit. With their help, we pray today.
- [60:21]
Co-host
Amen.
- [60:22]
Host
See you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcast and don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.