Podcast Summary: Building Leaders for the Next Generation – Insights on Developing Residency Programs with Pat Gillen

Podcast: unSeminary Podcast
Host: Rich Birch
Guest: Pat Gillen, Executive Pastor of Families and Fountain Inn Teaching Pastor, First Baptist Simpsonville Upstate Church
Date: December 5, 2024
Episode Theme: Practical strategies and real-world insights for developing effective church residency programs to train the next generation of ministry leaders.

Overview

This episode of the unSeminary Podcast dives deep into the practical “stuff you wish they taught in seminary” by analyzing how First Baptist Simpsonville Upstate Church is building a robust residency program for future ministry leaders. Rich Birch is joined by Pat Gillen, who shares the church’s unique approach to leadership development, the reasoning behind their hands-on model, and the lessons they’ve learned in creating a pipeline for young leaders. The conversation is packed with actionable tips, candid reflections on challenges, and a passionate call to invest in next-generation leadership.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Church Context and Multi-site Distinctives

• Setting the Scene ([03:32])
  • Upstate Church is one of the fastest growing churches in the U.S., now with eight campuses (and voting on a ninth).
  • Unique model: All campuses feature live, in-person teaching pastors—no video venues, setting them apart from most large multi-site churches.
  • Their strategy focuses on expanding into more local communities to “build out, not up” and multiply ministry touchpoints.

Quote:
“We say instead of building up, we’re trying to build out.” — Pat Gillen [08:06]

The Leadership Development Challenge

• The Need for Leaders ([08:35])
  • Rapid growth and a multi-campus model create a constant demand for prepared leaders, particularly campus pastors, worship leaders, and kids coordinators.
  • Personal pain point for Pat: Early years in ministry lacked practical, on-the-job mentorship despite good seminary training.

Quote:
“We wanted to create a scenario where we could develop leaders, help them walk them through that process, help them discover their calling... not just a warm body.” — Pat Gillen [10:44]

Defining the Residency Program

• Program Structure ([11:44])
  • Two-year, post-college residency aimed at young adults (22–24).
  • Residents are encouraged to pursue seminary or other training concurrent with the residency.
  • Functions like an extended “job interview.” The goal: hire the best fits or send strong leaders out to other churches in the region.

Quote:
“It’s two years post-college… it’s really a process. College graduates spend two years with us… whether it’s a two-year job interview… or we actually get to send them out.” — Pat Gillen [11:44]

Recruitment and Internal Leadership Pipeline

• Where Residents Come From ([12:57])
  • Not located near major colleges/seminaries, so have developed an “in-house” pipeline.
  • Focused on identifying and mentoring potential leaders from high school onward.
  • Most residents already have history with the church before entering the program.

Quote:
“We’re actually trying to develop our leaders here. When they’re in high school, we’re trying to pour into them, disciple them, nurture that calling…” — Pat Gillen [13:19]

Culture, Expectations, and Calling

• Nature of the Program ([15:39])
  • No guaranteed job at the end—transparency from the start.
  • Significant focus is helping residents discern and clarify their vocational calling, acknowledging that many in Gen Z are still forming their sense of direction.
  • Residents are allowed and encouraged to try multiple ministry roles during their time.

Quote:
“A lot of Gen Z is coming out of college and going, ‘I don’t know yet…’ So part of what we’re trying to do is say, ‘Okay, let’s investigate that.’” — Pat Gillen [16:35]

Internal Buy-In and Staff Involvement

• Engaging the Broader Team ([18:26])
  • It can be challenging for busy staff to engage deeply in leader development.
  • Residents are embedded directly within ministries, with actual staff as their “boss”/mentor.
  • The expectation is real work and real development, not just classic intern busywork.

Quote:
“We get somebody who’s… not an intern or anything like that. They’re putting in, you know, 30 hours a week with us.” — Pat Gillen [20:01]

Real-World Experience and Equipping

• Practical Ministry Training ([21:34])
  • Equipping sessions led by top staff members on topics like counseling, funerals, ministry budgeting, and pastoral care.
  • Two-year “curriculum” ensures comprehensive exposure regardless of entry point.
  • Emphasis on safe, real-world practice under supervision, particularly for high-stakes pastoral moments.

Quote:
“We bring some of the best leaders on our church staff to actually adopt one of those times… pour out their expertise on counseling or how to handle a funeral, a wedding… deal with somebody who’s struggling.” — Pat Gillen [21:39]

Candid Lessons, “Dirty Secrets,” and Avoiding Pitfalls

• Mistaken Approaches ([24:05])
  • Warning to churches: Don’t view residency as “free labor.” The real investment is heavy in staff time and intentional mentorship.
  • Generational differences: Residents must learn to be proactive; the residency is designed to cultivate initiative.

Quote:
“Churches see what we do, and they think, ‘Oh, I get free labor’… But ultimately, you’re multiplying yourself… a lot of people overlook that.” — Pat Gillen [24:05]

Financial and Logistical Model

• Time and Money Commitment ([26:01], [27:39])
  • Residents function like part-time employees (20–25 hours/week).
  • Most have dual roles across ministries.
  • The church invests ~$15,000/year per resident, providing seminary scholarships and affordable housing; residents fundraise the balance (an intentional development opportunity).
  • Staff are expected to invest significant, regular time with each resident.

Quote:
“If we have it at our church, you can do it… communications, senior adults, kids—it really helps us having them around.” — Pat Gillen [27:26]

Looking Ahead: Scaling Across Campuses

• Future Questions and Expansion ([29:58])
  • As campuses extend farther geographically, Pat is thinking about how to keep residency cohorts connected and aligned.
  • Plans to expand resident numbers, refine structure, and learn from other multi-site models.

Quote:
“The future is exciting and scary… If we get two and three hours away, how do we stay connected? How do we set that up?” — Pat Gillen [29:58]

Final Challenges for Churches

• Investing in Youth and the Pipeline ([31:18])
  • The strongest encouragement: Start developing leaders now, within your own context and age groups.
  • Cautions that churches closing their doors are almost always those who failed to prioritize the next generation.

Quote:
“My challenge would just be that… you have what you need in front of you. The churches that are struggling… did not prioritize the next generation, letting them lead.” — Pat Gillen [31:25]

• Long-term Thinking Pays Off ([32:04])
  • Residents aren’t a quick fix—they won’t solve your current problem, but strategic consistency develops an invaluable leadership pipeline for the future.

Quote:
“Residents aren’t going to solve… your January, February problems… but two years from now, three years from now… you’re going to have this pipeline.” — Rich Birch [32:22]

• Investment vs. Hiring Search Firms ([32:59])
  • The money churches spend on search firms could often be better spent developing leaders internally.

Quote:
“If you think about what that fee generally costs, and you invest that in the next generation instead, you can develop those same leaders.” — Pat Gillen [33:13]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (by Timestamp)

• [08:06] “We say instead of building up, we’re trying to build out.” — Pat Gillen
• [11:44] “It’s two years post-college… it’s really a process. College graduates spend two years with us…” — Pat Gillen
• [13:19] “We’re actually trying to develop our leaders here. When they’re in high school, we’re trying to pour into them…” — Pat Gillen
• [16:35] “A lot of Gen Z is coming out of college and going, ‘I don’t know yet…’ So part of what we’re trying to do is say, ‘Okay, let’s investigate that.’” — Pat Gillen
• [20:01] “They’re putting in, you know, 30 hours a week with us.” — Pat Gillen
• [21:39] “We bring some of the best leaders on our church staff to actually adopt… their expertise…” — Pat Gillen
• [24:05] “Churches see what we do, and they think, ‘Oh, I get free labor’… But ultimately, you’re multiplying yourself…” — Pat Gillen
• [29:58] “The future is exciting and scary… if we get two and three hours away, how do we stay connected?” — Pat Gillen
• [31:25] “My challenge would just be that… you have what you need in front of you…” — Pat Gillen
• [32:22] “Residents aren’t going to solve your January, February problems… but two years from now, you’re going to have this pipeline.” — Rich Birch
• [33:13] “If you think about what that fee generally costs, and you invest that in the next generation… you can develop those same leaders.” — Pat Gillen

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:32] Upstate Church’s Multi-site Model & Why Live Teaching Matters
• [08:35] The Leadership Bottleneck Problem
• [10:44] Why Residency? The Personal Backstory and Mission
• [11:44] How the Residency Program Works (Structure, Duration)
• [13:19] Internal Leadership Pipeline from High School
• [15:39] Transparency about Job Outcomes and Calling
• [18:26] Shifting Team Culture Toward Developing Leaders
• [21:34] Practical Equipping and Safe Real-World Experience
• [24:05] Mistaken Views & Pitfalls in Running Residency Programs
• [26:01] Time Commitment and Financial Model
• [29:58] Future Growth and Geographic Coordination Challenges
• [31:18] Final Challenges: Invest in Youth Now

Takeaways for Church Leaders

• Invest strategically in the next generation—don’t wait for a leadership crisis.
• Develop an internal pipeline starting from youth, not just relying on outside hiring.
• Residency is a long-term play: mentorship and practical exposure matter far more than free labor.
• Be prepared for a significant, ongoing investment of staff time and organizational resources.
• Leverage the whole staff’s expertise for resident development—not just a single mentor.
• Consider the financial trade-offs—developing leaders may cost less and add more value than regularly hiring through search firms.

For more information or to connect, visit upstatechurch.org.