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unSeminary Podcast
Faithful in the Moment: Staying Rooted in Christ While Leading a Growing Church with Jeff Warren
00:33:35
Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. Today we’re joined by Jeff Warren, Senior Pastor of Park Cities Baptist Church in Dallas, Texas. Founded 86 years ago, PCBC is a fast-growing multicultural, multilingual,
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- [00:00]
A
Hey friends. Rich here from the Unseminary podcast. You know we often talk about churches not doing well, but maybe your church is doing really well right now and your leadership team is looking for solutions to keep the momentum going. It could be the time to start a new location. Maybe you've hesitated in the past few years, but now, now is the time for you to step out in faith again and launch your next location. That's why I've partnered with Portable Church Industries for a new resource called Launch a new location in 150 days or less. Portable Church has assembled a bunch of resources to help you leverage your growing momentum in a new location by sending part of your congregation back to their neighborhood and on mission. This bundle of resources will give you a step by step plan to launch your next or new location and a five minute readiness tool that will help you know if your church is ready to go. Listen, I really want you to drop by portablechurch.com rich that's portablechurch.com rich to get this free resource. Launch a new location in 150 days or less. Listen, if your church is growing, now is the time for you to step out and launch a new location. You know I'm passionate about this. So I want you to drop by portablechurch.com rich today to pick up this brand new resource. Launch a new location in 150 days or less. Again, one last time. That's portablechurch.com rich today.
- [01:32]
B
Welcome to the Unseminary Podcast, the place where church leaders get practical insights, tips and strategies for ministry growth. Today you're stepping into something bigger than just a conversation. This podcast is part of a bold mission to help 100 churches grow by 1,000 people. Whether you're dreaming of increasing your impact in your community, empowering your team or or reaching more people with the message of Jesus, you're in the right place. We're here to bring you the stuff you wish they taught in seminary. Ideas and tools you can put into action this week to see transformation in your ministry. Let's dive in.
- [02:12]
A
Hey friends. Welcome to the Unseminary Podcast. So glad that you have decided to tune in. Really looking forward to today's conversation. I know it's going to be the kind of thing that's going to be helpful for you. Hopefully inspiring, hopefully help you to think about maybe the future of your church a little bit. Today we have got Jeff Warren with us. He is from Park City's Baptist Church and has served in multiple roles. If I'm getting it right, the young adults pastor the Men's ministry associate pastor, and since 2010, the senior pastor. Park. PCBC is a multicultural, multilingual, multi generational church that meets in multiple venues, which is lots of Maltese in one sentence in Dallas. They're also one of the fastest growing churches in the city. Jeff, welcome to the show. So glad you're here.
- [02:55]
C
All right, Rich. Hey, great to be with you, man. And you about got it right. Yeah. I was here previously as student pastor right out of seminary.
- [03:02]
A
Okay.
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C
So I was here for lots of years and then. And gone. I was in McKinney just north of here for 10, 11 and then back. The Lord called me back where I'm now dedicating babies of kids in my youth ministry and, you know, all that kind of thing. So really cool.
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A
So good. Yeah, that's great. Well, well, I'd love to hear a little bit more about pcbc, kind of tell us the story, fill in the flavor, you know, if you were. If we came this weekend, tell us a little bit about. Would see.
- [03:28]
C
Yeah. So you would. You would come here at Northwest highway in Dallas, where there are thousands of cars driving by me right now. We are, I like to say we're. Yeah, we're a legacy church. You know, we've been around. We'll celebrate this next month. 86 years being here in Dallas, and the church was, Was, was planted. Like a lot of folks probably listening. We met at University Park Elementary School for a while. Small group of people said there ought to be a church in Park Cities, where just right north of me right now from my office was really the kind of the highest, furthest point of North Dallas. We have charter members who remember it was a big field, which is hard to believe. You can't get out of a field.
- [04:09]
A
It's packed.
- [04:11]
C
Yeah. For miles and miles. So all that said, though, you would show up at big, you know, giant traditional church with a steeple, you know, or steeple, people, all the things. But once you, gosh, step in, you would find that you're greeted with a lot of love. It's a challenging thing to find. Okay, where do I fit in? Wait, where do I go? So you find out on our website. But we have multi, as you said, I like to say inter. Generational, right across generational, but intergenerational, that's hard work. You know, we could talk about too. But yeah, we have. We have five services on a Sunday morning. Two of those ones in a chapel, one's in a, you know, giant sanctuary. Beautiful sanctuary we have here. Um, and then two of those are in the Great hall where we have a contemporary, you know, modern worship and then en espanol that meets in the, in the Great hall as well. So we have all that. It's sounds complicated, but once you arrive we can point you to where you need to be. We have connect groups on Sunday mornings as well. So you have all those options with kids and all the things that happen here on Sunday morning.
- [05:18]
A
Yeah, that's a, that's a lot going on. That's, that's incredible. I'd love to talk about the intergenerational. Um, you know, that's obviously something that you're excited about and that God's used talk us through. When you say intergenerational, what, what do you mean by that? What's that look like?
- [05:33]
C
Yeah, so you can imagine in legacy church a lot of different, the tension, you know, of a lot of different opinions, different experiences. All the things can make you crazy, you know, half the time. Used to, more so than it does now. I've seen it as just a glorious and beautiful thing to be in an intergenerational church where people have different ways of worshiping the lor Lord, different ways to connect. So that's why in part we have, you know, a lot of different options here. We have, you know. Yeah, I know you talk to a lot of folks who have kind of one church, multiple locations. I like to think we're multiple venues in one church, you know, one place. And we also have a couple of sites off campus too though, with our Spanish speaking ministry. But all that said, man, the beauty and the glory of, of a church that has an older, you know, I called the gal two weeks ago, I called on a Saturday, called her on her hundredth birthday, you know, to wish her happy birthday and, and then to be dedicating as we did this past week, dedicating babies, you know, parents coming to dedicate their kids before the Lord. It's just a beautiful thing. The challenge Rich comes with, I like to say intergenerational, you know, and, and I, that's the, that's the challenge is to constantly allow and leverage our older adults with all the wisdom and all the things where you have Gen Z, who so wants more and more mentors. I talked to Gal last night. She's in her 30s. I'm just looking for a mentor. Talk to a gallon Sunday. I need an older woman in my life. So the beauty of that is I know some older women. We can do this, you know, but it's also the challenge. You come on our campus and it's hey, you're a young person. Hey, they're over there. And older person, you probably. Okay, you're probably over here in the chapel, you know, or whatever. And so we, we like to have, we have events and gatherings. We had one last night prayer gathering where we had, we talked about how to respond to all the violence taking place in the world. And so it's, it's cross generational, you know. And so that's the challenge, I think the tension not to resolve but to manage is to connect our people across generational lines. We do periodically come together as we will, a few times, probably four, maybe five times a year where we gather all together and worship the Lord. We'll do that for our anniversary upcoming. And yeah, so it's the challenge along with it.
- [08:04]
A
Yeah, I'd love to kind of double click on that. I like that you're saying it's the challenge. It's attention, it's glorious and it's beautiful. You know, every. And you know, there was a time in the life of the church there was this idea, and you'll no doubt know these words, this homogeneous unit idea that like, churches are going to grow by like all being the same. But actually, increasingly we've just found that's just not working, frankly. And it's actually not a reflection of the kingdom of Christ. We don't really want to do that. It's a, it's actually quite a bad idea. And you're trying to live out all kinds of diversity. Age is one of them, you know, ethnic, racial. You know, there's lots of ways we're trying to, to have diversity as a church. And what are you learning about trying to walk that line? What's kind of practical? How are you doing that? How are you trying to drive towards unity? Like you say, living in the tension or the challenge of that?
- [08:57]
C
Yeah, I think, I think, as you noted, I remember that too. Homogeneous unit principle. I think it was Peter Wagner and age and era. But, but. And you know, and a lot of us like, okay, let's go thinking that was right. Good. We didn't read Revelation 7, 9. You know where all this is heading, right? Yes. People from all tribes and nations. So yeah, doesn't look much like the kingdom of God. I think that's the first step is to recognize man. We, we want to be that church. Now. If you know anything about Dallas, you come here. We're in the park cities, so we're a township within Dallas, you know, and I don't mind telling you, we are, we are white. I mean, we're white up in here and, and very affluent. Part of, you know, part of Dallas as well. But with that, we're involved in a lot of ministry. I've heard others who've said, hey, you know, oftentimes the diversity around the community of the church, say within a 1 mile radius or so, is a lot more diverse than the church itself. And so we have made some strides there, though we have become more and more colorful along the way, which is a greater picture of heaven. Our en espanol ministry is flourishing in a place where, against all odds, our Spanish language ministry is flourishing. And they are an integral part of our church as well. So that just opens the door for all kinds of opportunities. Um, we've been involved in a lot of racial justice and reconciliation across the city of Dallas, where we partner with churches, pastor, swap all those good things. But more and more, I think you were asking for practical things. I think it's, you know, it's that message of grace that's got to drive everything, that everyone's welcome here. I like to say it this way. We are radically devoted to hospitality, and we are radically devoted to holiness. So becoming like Jesus, you know, I like to say, man, with all the theological debates we could have, you know, Jesus was perfect. Theology embodied, right? So if you're, if you're not, if you're, if your theology, the application of scripture doesn't look like Jesus, in the end, you're doing it wrong. And, and so grace is at the center. I like to say, you know, I don't like to say we're a centrist church that feels like we're sitting on the fence. Right? But we really are. We're not hardcore right and left and whatever that might mean for people here in America in particular, we find ourselves at the deep center where Christ is at the center of the church. And with that message of grace constantly in the mix, people, I think, do feel and sense. Man, I think I'm loved here. It doesn't matter my skin color, doesn't matter what it look like, how old I am young. And so that's kind of the driving point, I think, is, are you, are you preaching that message of grace? Yeah.
- [11:57]
A
That's so good. That's so good. Well, I don't think you'll mind me saying this. You have been in the saddle for a few years. You've been a leader for quite a while, been through a lot. I'm sure you've been through ups and downs, wins and losses, things that have Been good things that haven't been so good. How do you, as a leader, how do you keep yourself, your soul anchored in Jesus? How do you keep leading through when things are up and down and not get sidelined? How do you do that?
- [12:23]
C
Yeah, man, that's a loaded one, right? We talked a lot there, and I'll try to center that. Those thoughts. I was, Yeah, I was speaking at a seminary not too long ago, and one of the guys said, the professor said, we need to have you back because our students need to see happy pastors. And, you know, I saw. I think you probably saw, Barna recently came out that, what, 42% of all pastors are considering quitting. Man, I hadn't seen those numbers since COVID Right. I don't. I get that I'm in a great place right now. I'm grateful. I mean, I am in a happy place. But, man, I've had some dark nights of the soul. I would just say to all of your young pastor leaders out there that if you stay at this long enough, you will have those. And what's kept me in Rich has been a clear calling to the ministry and to this place. Everywhere I've gone, it's been, lord, I'm there until you yank me out, you know? And so knowing in those moments where, man, I could be doing this elsewhere, you know, that kind of thing, like, we always kind of look into where the grass is greener, I think. But knowing that the Lord's called me here, those have been in those dark moments, those have been the times when I've been. I'm still in. I'm still in. And I think a big part of that, too. For me, a lot of us, we wrap our identity up in our work that we do. That's not just a pastoring thing, but we define our work by the, Maybe the approval of others or by our performance. And. And in ministry, that gets real insidious. It gets twisted because I'm doing this all for God, right? And then you start to realize along the way that, gosh, maybe not, you know, maybe. Maybe I do have this high need to be needed. Maybe that's why I'm in ministry in some ways. Yeah, that's why he called me. I have empathy is my highest, you know, strength finder, for real. It's like the highest of this. So I feel all the feels, you know, serves well as a pastor, but also wrecks me, you know, when I'm like, oh, man, I, I, I. So I love people. And I. There's underneath the dark side of that is I want them to love me too. So I think staying centered. The main thing, Rich, that I would say is that this is probably that moment in the sermon, in the teaching. If you hear nothing else, you know, this is it for me. It has been to constantly. I never knew ministry would be this. Constantly running back to Christ and finding my identity in him. You know, CS Lewis was the one who said. And I'll. I'll translate him differently, but he said, never base your worth on something that can be taken away from you. Right.
- [15:05]
A
Oh, that's good.
- [15:06]
C
So. So I'm a, you know, I'm a father, I'm a son, I'm a brother, I'm a friend, I'm. Oh, and I'm a pastor. You know, all those things, none of those things are the truest thing about me. And someday when, you know, parents are gone, when, you know, whatever, name it, you know, it's why professional athletes who have a career in ending injury, right, need to not just have therapy. They need to have, I mean, physical. They need to have real therapy. They don't know who they are. And so if our identity is founded being a pastor, in my case, then, man, that is going to be a rough road. And because. Right. It's up and down all the time. And. And oftentimes we base that on numbers. How's my church doing? Are we growing? You know, I'm crushing it in terms of sermons. And. And that's been. The thing is constantly going back to this private, personal prayer Rich that I have often into worship before I come before the Lord in my quiet time. Lord, remind me again of how much you love me. Remind me again about my good. And that's the key thing.
- [16:10]
A
Yeah, yeah, let's double click on that. There's an interesting tension there of having our identity firmly rooted in Christ. That's obviously preeminent, and, you know, having a clear calling like that. You know, Jesus has called us to be where we are today. He's called us to the role we're in. Man, the lines can get blurry, though, between those two. You know, the kind of like our. The call to have a, you know, a really strong call on our life for this, you know, this season or this place or this thing, this mission that we're a part of can get wrapped up in, like, maybe that's the person I am. How do you hold both of those at the same time? How do you hold both of those in a way that's healthy because it seems as an outsider it seems like you're able to do that. Well.
- [17:03]
C
Well, it's been a journey, Rich. I do think I'm doing it better than I have in the past. So for me, I would say it this way as quick as I can, I guess here. 2nd Corinthians 5, 21 is my life verse. It says he made him. We all know this verse. He made him, who knew no sin to become sin for us, right? The first half of that verse, that's the gospel. Like, okay, yeah, Jesus, he's our substitute, more than just our good example, right? But then the latter part of that verse is what changed my life years ago. I'm probably my 30s already in ministry, doing youth ministry at the time. But, man, I was running like a wild man. Like I was at times. And that's a longer story. But I was so busy. I was married, no kids at that point. And I was like, who's pointing a gun at my head? I can't stop. You know, I love what I'm doing. But Stacy, my wife, was like, are you. You're busy again this weekend? You know, it was kind of that moment, and I was like, what is. What is happening to me? And it was this need to be needed. And then I realized that ministry can become like a drug, right? But. So I understood the Gospel, all that. But the latter part of that verse, he made him, who knew no sin to become sin for us. Then it says there's this henna clause, a comma in the Greek. I know just enough Greek to be dangerous, right? There's a but it's a purpose clause that Paul used over and over again. He says, in order that. In other words, this happened in order that. And it says in order that we might become the righteousness of God in him. Right? And so. So what that means. I mean, I've asked that question before college students, adults, you know, what is the righteousness of God? And I often get crickets. And I think that's because we don't see. We don't know who we are. We have. We are totally accepted, fully pleasing, completely loved by him. That is who I am. I am first a beloved son of the most high king. That's who I am. So much of ministry, I never knew minute. I mean, this is Christian life, but ministry is constantly. Lord, remind me again, that's the battle. And you've asked the question. The battle is to stay there, to remain there, and that's for every one of us. And I never knew that ministry would be such a battlefield, to constantly Go back to him and to be found in him. To. Is the phrase Paul loved right to the. In himness. The doctrine of remaining in him. That's not to. In my case, not losing my salvation. I did nothing to gain it. I did nothing to receive it. So I can't do nothing to lose it but to stay in Him. So that's a. It truly is, Rich. A constant spiritual discipline of, of remaining in Him. And so, you know, not everybody can do this. Got kids running around. You know, I've had twins and I have three kids. But. But now I can, I can get up. My mornings are quiet. I get up early. You know, I think the key to life is going to bed on time, being early, if you can. And, And I, I like to hit the day in before the Lord and just get centered. So that's what we do. And then, Lord, help me to, help me to live out of this. I mean, live out of this. Yeah, yeah.
- [20:22]
A
It's so good. Well, let's, let's pivot back to the church. You know, PCBC is, is growing. It's, you know, was flagged as one of the fastest growing churches in the country. You know, healthy things grow. How, how do you think about the kind of connection between growth and church health? How do those things fit together? How do you ensure that you're not just, you know, weeds grow, too? We don't want those to. We don't want those to grow. We want something healthy to grow that's got great fruit on, on the, on the limbs. Talk me through how that works for you and how do you lead in that direction?
- [20:56]
C
Yes. So, you know, I think it's really hard to find healthy churches because it's hard to find healthy leaders. Right. It's hard to find healthy teams, leadership teams, because it's hard to find healthy leaders. And so I really just. I think it's on me. It's on key leaders in our church. I'm constantly talking to our team about how to be healthy. What I just described to you, I want my team to walk, remain in him. I challenged my team this week, Rich. You know, of the number of pastors who've fallen, particularly here in Dallas, it almost seems like there's one every week. Right. Yeah, it's been another just last week. And yeah, so I'm so my, you know, I talked to our entire. We had an all staff. We have once a month. Yeah. Yesterday, Tuesday and gave them, you know, again, the big challenge. I did it with our ministers as well. Just remain in the Lord. Let's not let that happen here. You know, how do we keep accountable with one another? And so that's the great challenge. I think too often ministry pace can be so fast and so crazy and we're in a season right now that is wild. I like to say Jesus was often busy, but he was never in a hurry. And so I love to talk to our team about opportunities to slow down even in busy seasons. How can we be in a busy season managing life, family, marriage, all those things and, and stay centered in him. So I think more pastor leaders need to model that. We need to live that out and talk about it as a team. We, we read scripture together. We have this dwell reading plan. You can find our website are all of our members are reading scripture the same scriptures every morning, every day. And so for years, Rich, I've wondered how can I help my team be accountable? How can I be certain they're in the Word? You know, I can't. I used to tell them, there's only so much I can do for you. I hope you're doing this. But now at every staff meeting, every, every minister meeting, before we start, we'll pray together and I'll say, all right, hey, turn to your neighbor. Let's talk about what you heard from God this morning when you're in his word. And we're all reading the same thing. And so that's, yeah, that's, that's a relative past few years, that relatively new thing. And so we talk about what are we learning, how we grow, you know, then bam, let's kick in. It had to be a long part of the meeting, but it centers us, keeps us accountable. Back, back to your question. I think that's, that's key is, is, is keeping everybody spiritually healthy. And then myself, executive pastor, keeping us on, on target, on track, you know, and like we're on a 100 day run. You know, right now we're doing a lot of vision planning. We're doing long, long range stuff towards 2030 right now for the next five years. And, but centering in on. Okay, what, what's the next. It's kind of that 1 4, 1 4. If you've seen that, that Oxano's mothers have used, that helps us.
- [24:05]
A
Yeah, that's cool. The, I was going to ask for an example, but I love that idea of like, hey, we're, we're on a same reading plan. We're trying to keep everybody. And hey, we're going to even integrate that into our conversations. I think that's, that's really practical. I often hear, you know, like, it might be easy for the lead guy or the leader, whoever the leader of the church is to be busy but not in a hurry because, like, they can control their schedule. But working in a large, fast growing church is. It's like relentless. Right? The weekend is always coming. Is there anything else that you do to try to ensure the rhythms with your team. Team that you don't get to the place where your team is like, oh, sure, that's great for Jeff, but that doesn't work in my world. Is there anything else you do to try to help your team, you know, run at a good pace?
- [24:50]
C
Yeah, I think, I think it's staying. It's staying in your lane, doing what you've been called to do. Yeah, that's a great question, Rich. And because I don't have the quick answer, I'm like, oh, yeah, you know, work on this one again instead of just, hey, I'll model that for you, you know, because truthfully, I mean, I love, like a lot of us, I love the work I do. I've got a really, I got a busy day today, you know, doing a lot of things I love, but I'll also model the role and then I'll ask them. One of the parts of our, Our evaluation even involves some, some holistic health. And so at the beginning of every year, I asked them to give to me and we share together, you know, kind of what's your single word for the year? Kind of center in. What do you, what are you looking for God to do and desiring for him to do in you? And then we look at, literally we look at physical, spiritual, interrelational, and then vocational life. And then we talk about what are your goals for the year? And that plays into then how you're doing so I can come back to knowing every one of them. Hey, I'm going to work out a few times a week. You know, I'm going to. I'm going to finally lose some weight. I need to go to bed earlier. You know, whatever the thing might be, try to keep each other accountable in that. Easier said than done, but I think, I think it's true if you model it as a leader and I think you're okay. You know, we all want to. I think a lot of times we think our members want us to. I hope my pastor is about to kill himself serving Jesus, you know, and they really don't mean that, but it can feel that way. So when I get a chance, like, I want to Be out on my bike, you know, I want to be. I'd love to ride. That's my happy place. And so I'll be. Be out at the lake these days, I'm trying to find some gap there, but I think it's real important that you set a schedule for the week and try to set a pattern. So there are certain times that are study times for me that can't be touched. There are certain times where I'll do mark out, when am I going to get some exercise, you know, that kind of thing. Again, easier said than done because, you know there's going to come the crisis there's going to come. Oh, I'm doing that funeral. You know, that happens, right?
- [27:07]
A
That pushes in for sure. Yeah, that's, that's, that's great. Well, you've written a book called Live Forgiven. I'd love to hear a little bit more about that. We'll link to that in the show notes. But why don't you tell us a little bit about.
- [27:18]
C
About that book.
- [27:19]
A
What, you know, kind of. What was the, the germ of that where. That's a lot of work to pull together a resource like that. Talk us through that. What's. What's that look like?
- [27:26]
C
Yeah, so it's a little bit of what I talked about earlier. It really is unpacking the Gospel. What does it mean to live forgiven? In other words, what is grace? And then how do you appropriate grace in your life? So it really is built around my life for Second Corinthians 5, 21 that we talked about earlier. And a lot of what I've learned, the appropriation of grace to really, again, remain in Him. I think, you know, it's possible today, Rich, and this is a big deal. This is what I'm preaching a lot. It's possible to self identify as a Christian in America and not be a disciple of Jesus. And those are two very different things. Right. I know that, you know, John, Mark Comer, among others, have talked a lot about. He's just riffing off Dallas Willard. We all know that. But, you know, and that. That there's a real difference. And so anyway, it's about that once, once capturing grace and understanding the gospel, that Christianity is not work harder, get better. It's believe more deeply what he's already accomplished for us. And then, okay, yeah, I get that. But then how to appropriate that? How can I live forgiven remaining in him? And that's my, you know, if you come around here much, that's my constant message. I. We don't have much of another message, really, do we, Rich? We got one message and it's the grace of God and then it's parsed out in all kinds of ways. But yeah, that's what the book's about.
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A
So. Good. Well, yeah, we'll link to that. And this has been, this has been a good conversation. You know, thinking through, wrestling through, you know, your own relationship with Jesus, how that impacts your life, how that impacts your leadership. You know, leading a, you know, very busy church is doing all kinds of things and is reaching people. Busy is too the wrong word. A very active church that's, you know, making an impact, which is incredible. It's been a good conversation. Anything else you'd love to share? Just as we kind of land today's episode.
- [29:16]
C
Yeah, I would share something that I've come to over the past few years and a new learning for me that I think would be really good for pastors leaders listening. Another thing that's really set me free has been to live in the present, to be mindful and to live in the moment that, you know, we hear that a lot. But let me, let me explain that, you know, when Covid hit, if we were, if we were deciding that, you know, our worth and our value is found and how many people come into our church, that was kind of blown up. Right. And so during that time, I was really, I was really wrestling, like a lot of us. It was a real dark time because any decision I made right, as a pastor, and I'm starting to have some ptsd, you know, right now with some of what's going on our culture right now, you know, the old. The old what? The trope, you know, if your pastor didn't say this, you know, this past week.
- [30:16]
A
Yeah, yeah. It's wild, right?
- [30:17]
C
I mean, you know, you ought to find another church. I'm like, please, okay, you're not pastoring my church. But anyway.
- [30:24]
A
No, exactly.
- [30:25]
C
So. So during that time, longer story, short out of that then where I thought, well, we're going to bounce back. You know, we were, I think, a lot of legacy churches. We did not bounce back. Right. We're, we're back. We're beyond where we were pre covered, but it has been. I mean, it's been work. Right?
- [30:43]
A
Yeah.
- [30:43]
C
So. So for me, the learning is this. I have a friend who is a recovering addict. He's got a ministry that's amazing. Michael Molten M to the Rock is his name. But he. I sat down with him and I said, michael, how do you do it, man? How do you. How Are you sober? You know, how do you had to remain sober? He said. He said, jeff, I've got to live in the moment. I've got to live in the present. And I said, okay, help me there. Help me. What do you mean? He said, man, if I go back to in the past, all I have is shame and regret. My guy's got 23 mug shots, okay? He's. He has a past, right? And he says, if I go in the past, I've shame or regret. If I go into the future, all I have is worry and anxiety. He says, so I've got to stay right here. And then I said, how do you do? How do you stay right here? I mean, like, get that. But he said, right here. I've got it. I've got to serve somebody. I've got it. I've got to get outside of myself, and I've got to serve someone. So rich. Here's what I'd say to close all that has been so freeing for me. It means that I'm going to. What is success? Okay? There's not numbers in ministry or whatever, you know, bigger, better church, something. What is success? I asked the Lord during that time, Lord, what is success in ministry? And he kind of, you know, holy head, but kind of slapped me upside the head and said, no, there's a question before. That question shows you where your mind and your heart is. The question is not success in ministry. What is success in life? Right? What is success as a disciple and what it came to. And this is not new for me, I discovered later that Mother Teresa, among others, it's success is faithfulness, full stop.
- [32:26]
A
Amen.
- [32:26]
C
Faithful, not faithfulness. So that.
- [32:29]
A
Right?
- [32:29]
C
No, no, no. Faithfulness, full stop. And so what does faithfulness look like? This is where all this goes. Faithfulness looks like being faithful in the moment, like with whomever he's put in front of me right now, not. Not this afternoon, not my lunch appointment right now, whomever he's put in front of me, focus and whatever he's called me to do in the moment. And, man, that has been so freeing for me. It's a battle. But if we can live that way, I can put, you know, you and I both, I can put this hour together. Next, I got another appointment later, I meet with another, you know, whatever. I can go home tonight, hopefully give my best emotional energy to Stacy, my wife, and I can put my head on the pillow tonight and go, I. I mean, I kind of messed up, you know, two o', clock, I blew it. And then three that was a great meeting, but I sought to be faithful in the moment.
- [33:28]
A
Yeah.
- [33:28]
C
And you put some hours together, put days together, months and years together. And someday, you know, it's what we long to hear. Hey, you've been faithful. Well done. Been faithful. And those have been. That just happens one moment at a time.
- [33:41]
A
Jeff, that's so good. That's so good. So helpful for people. I appreciate that. Great. Yeah. Super helpful insights and great for us to wrestle through and think about those things. If people want to track with you or with the church, where do we want to send them? Online?
- [33:57]
C
Yeah, you can find us@pcbc.org find out everything about us you can even find there. You can find. I'm on Instagram, you know, Twitter less and less. Facebook, you know, Dumpster fire even less. I'm out. I'm on threads, you can find me. I think it's Jeff underscore Warren, but just fine. Yeah, Jeff Warren. I'm out there. That's great.
- [34:18]
A
Appreciate you being here today, sir. Thank you so much.
- [34:20]
C
Thank you, Rich, thanks for all you're doing, man. I love, love you. Appreciate all you're doing, bro. Keep it up.
- [34:26]
A
Thanks so much.
- [34:27]
C
All right.
- [34:27]
B
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the Unseminary Podcast. If you found today's conversation helpful, I'd share it with a friend. In ministry, it's a simple way to spark new ideas and grow together. Also, don't Forget to visit unseminary.com to sign up for our email list. You'll get exclusive resources and practical tools delivered straight to your inbox to help you lead your church more effectively. Most importantly, take what you learned today and put it into action this week. Ministry impact starts with small, intentional steps. See you next time.