← unSeminary Podcast
Loading summary
Transcript57 lines
- [00:00]
A
Hey friends, welcome to the Unseminary Podcast. Do you feel like your church's facility could be preventing growth? Or are you frustrated or maybe even overwhelmed at the thought of a complicated or costly building project? Are the limitations of your church building becoming obstacles to the path of expanding your ministry? Have you ever felt that your church could reach more people if only the facility was better suited to meet the needs of your community? Well, our friends over at Rise Point have been there. They are former ministry staff and church leaders, and they understand how to prioritize and help lead your church to a place where the building really is a ministry multiplier rather than a ministry limiter. Licensed all over North America, their team of architects, interior designers and project managers have the professional experience to help you and your church move the mission forward. Listen, I trust Risepoint. You can trust them with your project too. Check them out over@risepoint.com unseminary that's RisePoint with an e.com unseminary While you're there, pick up their free downloadable resource for your team. It's called 10 Things to Get right before you build. Reach out to them today. The earlier in the project, the better. Again, that's RisePoint.com unseminary that's RisePoint with an e.com unseminary today.
- [01:22]
B
Welcome to the Unseminary Podcast, the place where church leaders get practical insights, tips and strategies for ministry growth. Today, you're stepping into something bigger than just a conversation. This podcast is part of a bold mission to help 100 churches grow by 1,000 people. Whether you're dreaming of increasing your impact in your community, empowering your team, or reaching more people with the message of Jesus, you're in the right place. We're here to bring you the stuff you wish they taught in seminary, ideas and tools you can put into action this week to see transformation in your ministry. Let's dive in.
- [02:02]
A
Hey friends. Welcome to the Unseminary Podcast. Super excited that you've decided to tune in. You know, today I'm really looking forward to today's conversation because I know this is going to be one of those things that all of us can relate to and it can be really super applicable to our churches. Excited to have Chad Bickley with us. He is the executive pastor at Skyline Church in in California. It was founded in 1954 and has a rich history of growth and overcoming obstacles become one of the fastest growing churches in the country. Currently, if I'm counting correctly, Skyline has two locations in California, one in Arizona and one in Tennessee, which is a fantastic story as well as services online. Chad, welcome to the show. So glad you're here today.
- [02:42]
C
Thanks for having me.
- [02:43]
A
Why don't you fill in the picture there, Kind of tell us a little bit about Skyline, you know, if we were to come this weekend, what we'd experience and, and tell us a little bit about your role.
- [02:53]
C
Yeah, I think Skyline, like you said, has a very rich history. We're 70 years this year and only four pastors. And so you know, it started with Orville Butcher who launched the church and it, and then John Maxwell that was after him, who is, who has taught us all a lot of leadership skills. And then it went to Jim Garlow. And in that transition from Maxwell de Garlo is when the campus moved to its current place. And that's a, that's a huge story of, of a miracle on the hill, to be honest. But those guys really battled through to, to build this place. And then Jeremy came on about six years ago and actually, yeah, six years ago and has been the fourth pastor there and really you can, you can see God's hand in each, each four guys and, and Jeremy has a, as a major heart for the lost and, and, and so if you'd come on our campus it would, it would be very outreach focus. Larry, he, he, he tailors his message that reaches a first time person but also people who've been there a long time. So he has a great gift of, of you know, whoever you are in that message, you know, you walk away with, you know, being challenged and, and motivated to be honest to, to move forward. We have a, our strategy is called Oikos and that, that strategy is, it's, it's in the Bible and Touch talks about, it's your relational network, 15 people. So everybody has a relational network of eight to 15 people and we provide cards that write those people down on your, on the cards. We want you to pray for them and that will give you an opportunity, you know, when it presents yourself that, you know, we always say an invite can change a life, to invite them to church. And that's our responsibility as Christians. Right. And so we really drive that, that strategy into our people to you know, to go out to their Oikos and it's really taken off and it's really been, you know, put, put, you know, us as pastors, you know, we're responsible as well. But it's, it's, it's also everybody that's in the church to be able to equip Them with the things reach there community as well.
- [05:48]
A
So nice. Yeah, love it. That's so cool. That's really got my attention. I'd love to drill into that. We might get to some of that today because I think there's a ton there around even. Just how do we make it, make it visible in our people's lives around who should we be inviting and who, you know, who are the people that we should. I love that. That's such a great, great practical strategy there, you know, pulling back the curtain a little bit. We, you know, are often pursue people to come on the podcast because they end up on outreach 100 fastest growing church list. And I love. I saw Skyline bump up on this list this year, I think for the first time. And I was like, I'm pretty sure that was the church Maxwell was at. And then dug into your history a little bit. And I love this because oftentimes we see churches on that list that are like 10 years old or 12 years old. They're like the ripe old age of 15 years. But, you know, here's a church founded in the 50s that is obviously experiencing, you know, some great, great things going on, which is. Is great to see. And I can imagine leading in that environment has been challenging that as an executive pastor, we, we see the like, oh, it's all positive and upside. But what have been some of the challenges that you've had to face as an executive pastor on the, like, looking under the hood a little bit stuff that you've had to kind of tackle in the midst of all that?
- [07:05]
C
Yeah, I mean, I would say the biggest thing is just growing pains and what comes with that. You know, your, Your staff, I feel like, you know, we're very culture focused. We're very, you know, we, we have a, a vision right now of 10, 1010, which is 10, 000 people in 10 years. Campuses or plants. And you know, as a part of that, our, our church has bought in and, and, but. But it also requires more, more people. And to balance that in San Diego, where the cost of living is so true and to get the right people because that's everything to us and really give them the clarity to move forward because ultimately we don't want to get to 10,000 people and we have an unhealthy staff. And it's good. We don't, you know, we put out numbers for numbers sake because we say every. Every name has a story. Every. Every story matters to God. And for us it is, it is, it is less about the numbers, but it is definitely a target for us to go after, and then we get the process of how we got there. Right. So. So it's really important for us that. That, you know, we have given God the results. Like, whatever you want, you take it. But are we doing our part that we're a team and we're driving in the right direction? And, you know, in First Corinthians, chapter 12 is just a great illustration of roles and responsibilities and how that the body makes up the team. And, and so we really. We really are intentional about health in our teams. And, and so really, that is the focus.
- [08:58]
A
Mm.
- [08:59]
C
And because we believe healthy things grow. So.
- [09:03]
A
Yeah, well, let's dig into that, because I think there's. There's lots of folks that would be leading their executive pastor of a. Maybe not a church as large as yours, thousand 1500 people, and they would say, yeah, I want a healthy staff team as well. But I feel like we're struggling on that front. What have you been able to do to try to keep your staff aligned, keep them healthy, keep them focused on, you know, where you're going as a church? Yeah.
- [09:26]
C
You know, just a quick. My background. Pastor Jeremy and I, we actually, we played college basketball together. He. He. He went. His story is incredible. When he come. When he became a Christian, he was in professional baseball, didn't know the Lord, and. And then he came to Christian Heritage College, where we met and we played. We played college basketball.
- [09:50]
A
Guy.
- [09:50]
C
I went. I went the route of administration and coaching, and he went into ministry. But we're very close, actually. My wife and I helped him start a church. And, and which. Which has led to where we are now, which is kind of ironic, but I, I. My passion, you know, is more in teams coaching. And so, you know, about 20 years ago, just really had a. You know, when I was. I've been coaching for just a really long time. And, And. And so when. When I got. I don't coach anymore. I gave it up two years ago. But in the midst of all of that, I've. I've. I had this desire of just like, you know, what are the best doing?
- [10:35]
A
You know, oh, that's good.
- [10:38]
C
They all had a philosophy, and philosophy comes out of, you know, you and. And who you are. And, and so we. We implement that in a little. Little basketball team at a Christian school. And, and really, Patrick Lencioni has been a big influencer in my life as well. And he has six questions that you need to ask. Answer. Why do we exist? How do we behave? What do we do? How Will we succeed? What's important now and who does what? And the leaders are actually at the bottom, pushing everybody back to the top. And, and so when, so when I, I never wanted to come to Skyline, to be honest. I was very close. I was very happy where I was.
- [11:24]
A
You're like, no, it's good, I'm good.
- [11:27]
C
My family was, was. My wife teaches at the school, my kids went to the school. And so when, when, when this went through, it was definitely a journey of a. I always tell people it was a 45 day journey that was nuts to me. But it was in the direction that, that God was calling me to do. And I actually remember the day that I was going there and I was, I was actually sad because I was just like, you know, what is this? But I know at the time Skyline was going, you know, needed, you know, Jeremy, Jeremy was the perfect timing for this. He came in, started to create, you know, culture. And when I came in, just help with this. You know, I, I think a lot of people, a lot of churches have vision. A lot of, you know, we created a vision statement, but we have a purpose statement. But I think the thing that's missing is just how do we behave to reach.
- [12:24]
A
Right, right.
- [12:24]
C
I, I would say the number one thing that most organizations, you know, places, churches miss is they don't define how we behave.
- [12:36]
A
Right.
- [12:36]
C
To reach the vision and they get the people. Because every interview we look through, I mean, we look for these six things in, in the people that we hire and then we drill it. And it's been amazing to watch how this has started to go deep into the roots of our teams. It's starting to go into our volunteers and they're starting to speak the language because culture is a language that you speak. And all these phrases that we have, you know, are, are embedded in the different situations that take place. And so, you know, we have a core identity book with six core behaviors that, that we really drill into. We do our annual reviews on them, we do our six months reviews on them. We do cultural spotlights on them. We just have every month we do something like, we drill it into our team to be like, I mean, this is how we behave. You have a conflict. That's level four accountability. You know, we don't want drama because drama slows us down. So you gotta attack that you don't want. You're either water or gas in a situation. And so we really use these phrases to really end drama. And that's where my trigger goes off, is when I see a little Bit of drama. It's like, okay, how we handling this? Because that's going to slow us down. And the mission's bigger than all of us, right?
- [14:00]
A
Yeah.
- [14:00]
C
So the best part about being this job is, yes, I can hire for my weaknesses. And so I got an awesome team that. That really is. Is experts and in their areas. And yet they're not. They're. They're not siloing people. They're bringing us together because we're one team. And I think the biggest caution I would have in churches is you're siloed if your teams are siloed, and then. Then they're not coming together if we're not celebrating. You know, youth had five baptisms in the worship department. Isn't celebrating, like, how can we help you even, you know, on. On those days? And they're helping them succeed and they're. And all this. That's. That's health to me. And that's. That's been very, very important. And really, that's what we control. We control our attitude and our effort.
- [14:57]
A
Yeah.
- [14:57]
C
So we control those things. And. And so that's what we're going to control. We can't control the numbers, but we control the clarity.
- [15:06]
A
Yeah.
- [15:06]
C
What we do believe, God's vision that's given to Pastor Jeremy, you know, can get going. I get kind of passionate about this stuff because.
- [15:15]
A
Well, there's a bunch I want to dig into here. So the. One of the insights I want to underline that you said. You said is. Which I think is so true, why we exist. You know, at the end of the day, all churches exist for some combo of either the Great Commission or Acts 1. Go into all the world. Like, we're. We're, you know, we're a combo of those things. Most churches, or we probably should be. That's what Jesus told us to do. But how we do it, how we behave, I love that distinction of, like, hey, we got to be super clear with our people, and we'll provide a link to this. But you've given us this. This playbook that really outlines these six behaviors and, you know, level one to level six attitude, commitment, work ethic, accountability, trust, love. When you think about those six, maybe let's dive in on one of them to start that. That is maybe where you see your team getting tripped up, where it's like, hey, we're having a lot of level three conversations or a lot of level four conversations. Or, you know, where is it that we're, you know, we. We kind of. You're getting the Kind of most. Either resistance or you're getting the most traction on kind of the pushing towards the kind of culture you want to, you want to create.
- [16:25]
C
You know, when we first came in and you, you, you start to do a different culture per se than what was in the past, you have to clearly identify it. And I would say if we received any resistance to that, it was probably in the beginning. But the great thing is with the clarity, some people are like, yeah, that, that's just not me. And it ended healthy. Yes, right. And so, but it also, what it also did, it took people that were in it, that gave them clarity, that they, they shined and they. But I would say the number one thing we focus on is level one attitude. And those standards that we talk about is humility, gratitude, and being a teammate. And so those three things, and we just say it starts every day with that one. It's not like you get to level three and you know, you go, you're there. No, it's every day you start with level one, and if you're struggling with your work ethic, go back to level one. Good Lord. For the things that he has brought your way. And then all of a sudden it helps your commitment, it helps your work ethic, it helps. Helps your accountability and so forth. So really that, that foundational piece is so huge. And really what these core behaviors are, are a mindset. And that mindset, the more you get people pulling in the same direction with the same mindset, the more you're going to see God can take, you know, you to a whole new level. I mean, we use the example of the Clydesdale horses we use in staff meeting yesterday. It's like one horse can pull 8, 000 pounds. Two horses, you know, that are working together, can do three times their weight, can do 24, 000 pounds. But two horses trained, working together with the same mindset, they can do 32, 000 pounds. And so, wow, when you have that same mindset and we just talk about our mindset's level six mindset, it's those six things. And if we're all doing that together, you're going to see things like the fourth fastest growing church. And if that's what God has in mind, right? And now we can't walk around just being like, oh, no, we're the fourth fastest. No, it's like, man, thank, thank you, God. It's all in our approach to him and our gratitude to him because it's. He's the one, you know, and we can't it doesn't make sense. You know, God can do immeasurably more what you ask or think, and that's what he's done. And now we're like, okay, God, what do you have next? That's beyond our imagination? And so really, that. That foundational level one attitude is just huge for us, because are you being humble? Are you grateful? Are you being a teammate, or are you being a player on a team? Because those are two different things.
- [19:29]
A
Yeah, yeah. Very good. Very good. I love that. I love that Clydesdale horse example as well. I'm sure. I know somewhere there's pastors writing that down. They're like, oh, I'm going to rip that off. We're going to use that in a team meeting next week, which is wonderful. Level three work ethic. So this one, to be honest, stood out to me. I was like, it's interesting to me. So level three work ethic. Work enthusiastically with grit and with a mindset of how you can be more efficient and better today than yesterday. So love this idea. I love that you're calling this out. Sometimes the church is looked at as being like, oh, that's where people that don't have good work ethics go to work. And you're pushing against that here, man. There's like a lean in. Hey, we're going to make stuff happen. Talk to me about what are some ways that this level kind of works itself out with your. With your team?
- [20:19]
C
Yeah, I mean, sports background. My dad was a farmer in Wisconsin before we moved out to California. It's just there's. There's things you got to get after it. I mean, you got to work hard, but there's also this, like, work ethic could be a. A negative thing, but we want to change it into a positive thing. And again, it builds on itself. So you. You start with, I'm a teammate, man. I'll do whatever.
- [20:49]
A
Yeah, do whatever for you. Yeah, I'm going to help you. We're going to pull on this together.
- [20:53]
C
We're in this together. I'm going to be a teammate. Worship's going to help youth. Youth's going to help worship. This is going to, you know, and it's like you start with that all of a sudden. Your commitment level. We identify all the commitment levels, but when you get to work ethic, we identify it in three. Three, like a traffic light. Green, yellow, red. So you can identify your mood. Right. So if you're in the yellow, you're frustrated. You're, you know, you're. You're complacent, you know, and if you're in the red, you're, you're gone, right? And so you need to go back to level one. You need to take a thankfulness walk. You need to do something to get back going, right? And so really that mindset and this has helped me personally so much because it's like when you walk into a meeting, it's like, man, what color am I right now? Why is everybody in the yellow? Oh, wait, I'm in the yellow. So I need to change where I'm going with. And we always say, man, start your day in the green, win the morning. Because if you come to work in the green, it's hard. It's, it's, it's harder to move forward. It's hard to go from yellow, red to green than it is from green to red because then you can back to it rather quickly. So we, we just talk about all this stuff that's, that's, you know, identify your mood, man, you're in the yellow, man. And speak that language to people, man, you're in the yellow, right? And, and really hold people accountable to the culture because we've all signed up for this. So if we signed up for this, this isn't personal. This is actually like we're trying to help people find and follow Jesus seven days a week. So if you're in the yellow, that's not going to help people find, follow Jesus seven days a week. And, and I'll be honest, really has helped me. I'm, I'm, I'm more of an introvert for sure. I love the behind the scenes stuff. So I'm really challenged every day, man, win that morning. Make sure you're walking into that environment. Let's go. And we've created such a fun environment too because part of that's don't take yourself too seriously, but very seriously. And so we have fun. We do fantasy football, we do, you know, we don't take ourselves too seriously. But when it comes to people, you know, accepting Christ and starting that, that journey, that's very serious to us. Very heavy, heavy mission that, that we've all chosen to be a part of.
- [23:21]
A
That's good. I think this is fantastic. It's, you know, I love your passion for it. I love the clarity. I love how you're, you know, even in these tools you've created to try to make it super easy for your people to understand and to onboard new people. Obviously in a church like yours, you know, you're onboarding new team members all the time. That's an issue. You mentioned a couple of ways. I'm looping back on something you said earlier. You mentioned a couple ways that you reinforce these levels. Evaluations, team meetings. Is there, you know, maybe flesh that out a little bit more. What are some other ways or maybe a surprising way that you reinforce these levels with your people to keep them in front of people, to keep defining, hey, this is how we work. This is how we work.
- [24:01]
C
Yeah. The. I heard a story the Home Depot. There was a new guy that took over Home Depot and he. And he completely changed the culture with. With handwritten notes and, and he. And. And so for us, we have a. We have a weekly meeting and we have a section every week that's called Cultural Spotlights. So within that cultural spotlight, we've created the six levels and someone. And to embed this someone, you know, hey, I saw Johnny Level 1 teammate and he identifies it and we, we really. And this is where it gets a little tricky because everybody wants to highlight the individual and we're like, that's great. But we're highlighting the core behavior. The behavior Johnny tomorrow cannot be a teammate. That's in him today. He was a teammate. But what that does is it. It sends. It sends a message to everybody. It sends a message everybody on the team of that's what a teammate is, not Johnny. But what he did. And what that has done is iron sharpens iron. It has taken these six levels to a whole different level in our mind.
- [25:18]
A
So, yeah, that's cool.
- [25:20]
C
That's. That's been probably the biggest way now Huddles are doing it. And for volunteers, you know, we've. We've done a culture warrior award of the month. We've done those things our all staff. And, and so when you start, it's like I said, cultural's a language and you have to teach people to speak a language. It takes a while. Yeah.
- [25:44]
A
It's not overnight. It's not one time. You know, you're not just going to do this. I love the weekly meeting thing. That. That's incredible. Can you give us a flesh that a little bit more. What does that. What's that look like? This is a behavior that we've seen time and again with prevailing churches that they are not leaving this kind of defining. What is it that makes us. Us to like we're going to do it once a year. It's like we're repeating this time and again. And I love that you're doing that on a weekly basis. So kind of pull that Apart a little bit more. What's that meeting look like? When is it? You know, what's. Other things happen at it, that sort of thing.
- [26:15]
C
Yeah. So it's a pastor director meeting. There's about 20 of us. And. And we come in the meeting and we have a cultural section. We have a cultural section, we have an awareness section, and we have a discussion section.
- [26:29]
A
Okay.
- [26:29]
C
And so the cultural section is just. It's basically we. We do windstuck or. Sorry. We do cultural spotlights. Does anybody have a spotlight? We say, does anybody have a story from this past Sunday which trains our pastors? Like, go find us a story for sure. Yep. And. And dude, some of the stories are just like, what. Go, go ask them. How did you. How did you come to Skyline? You know, and we want to know. We want that information. And then it's. We usually have one or two people give what we call our wind stuck priority. And they give their wins of. Of what they had the. Since their last one. They give their stocks, man, I'm stuck here. And this is what we're doing and this is my priority for the next. You know, so they give like a department update.
- [27:23]
A
Update.
- [27:24]
C
Yeah, we go into awareness, you know, what are you hearing? What are you seeing? And then at the end, if we have something, Pastor Jeremy has a section and then. And then if there's any other discussions that need to take place, we. We take place in. In that. So that's kind of how it's structured. And you know, sometimes, man, this is when, you know you're healthy, when after 30 minutes you're still on your cultural spotlights and windstock priority spotlights and stories, and you're like, this is unbelievable. And it's just rapid fire. You're just like, this is. We're healthy right now. And when you're not getting any, then you're like, okay, we need.
- [28:08]
A
We gotta spend some more time, focus on it.
- [28:11]
C
A little bit of challenge, a little bit of training and the importance. But our people have, you know, and you have to create the environment where it's, you know, where it's. Okay, so that's the part that has been pretty cool.
- [28:24]
A
That's so good. When you look to the future, you think about this whole area, you know, what's. What's in development, what are you thinking up over the horizon? Maybe questions you're asking about how you can continue to, you know, expand this, continue to, you know, push deeply the kind of cultural stuff. What, what are your. What are the questions you're asking on this Front.
- [28:45]
C
Yeah. I think that at the. The more you grow, the more it's like, okay, how do we keep it in front of everybody and making sure they're training? Because you can, you know, you can. You can say the. The six levels. Okay. That's knowledge. Okay. But you have to be able to incorporate those into your daily actions. But honestly, you know, in our interview process, it's very intense. They have to go through several things, and really, it's like, do they fit our culture? Not like they do the job. They have to have those traits already instilled in them or they're going to be miserable. Right. And so I think it's exciting and. And fearful of just like, okay, as we grow, we have to stay healthy. Like, that's. That's the key.
- [29:37]
A
Yeah.
- [29:38]
C
When I. When I first took this job, I went to, you know, honestly, when I came to Skyline, it was like, oh, my goodness, where is everybody? Like, why is everybody. We. This. This isn't working. And. And then, you know, I went to a conference and. And it was like, to listen to churches, big churches, and kind of hear behind the doors, I'm like, man, they're not healthy. And so, honestly, for me, and my drive and desire is that we have a healthy staff. Right. And if you get unhealthy, we'll work with you. Come on, let's go. But at the end of the day, you know, if you're coming in and you're. You're gossiping and you're causing. It's like. And you're not. You're not being a part of the mission, like, this is not the right place for you, you know, and. And I think it's. It's kind of like, you know, we got to put our hard hats on and. And be construction, be a farmer. Let's go. We have to get after it. And so that's the biggest, you know, I guess, to answer your question, they look good.
- [30:48]
A
Well, yeah, that's super encouraging. And this has been a great conversation, super insightful. And Obviously, with your 10-10-10 vision, you know, you're in a lot of ways on the front end of what you believe God's calling your church to do. Like, you still got a long ways to go on expanding and new locations and, you know, more staff and all of that. So I'm excited to see how this develops in the coming years. Any kind of final words as we wrap up today's conversation? I've really appreciated this. It's been a great conversation today. Chad.
- [31:16]
C
Yeah, I. I mean, I would just. Again, the, the phrase that comes into my mind is, is healthy things grow. Yeah, they just grow. And, and you have to weed them, you have to water them. You have to put effort into healthy things. If you want a healthy body, you have to exercise, you have to eat right. So it's work and, but it pays off.
- [31:41]
A
That's good. Thanks so much, Chad. Appreciate you being here. If people want to track with you or with the church, where do we want to send them online?
- [31:50]
C
Skylinechurch.org is our website. I mean, it has our staff. Our emails are on there. So if you want to connect, happy to.
- [31:58]
A
That's great. Thanks so much, Chad. Appreciate you being here today, sir.
- [32:01]
C
Yep.
- [32:01]
B
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the Unseminary Podcast. If you found today's conversation helpful, I'd share it with a friend. In ministry, it's a simple way to spark new ideas and grow together. Also, don't Forget to visit unseminary.com to sign up for our email list. You'll get exclusive resources and practical tools delivered straight to your inbox to help you lead your church more effectively. Most importantly, take what you learned today and put it into action this week. Ministry impact starts with small and big intentional steps. See you next time.