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- [00:03]
A
Friends, Rich here from the Unseminary podcast, thanks so much for tuning in. We've got a very special compilation episode for you. Listen. I have heard echoes of similar things happening over the last year or so on the podcast. So we're pulling together these episodes because I want to point out to you critical lessons for your church, particularly here in the summertime as you think about what are some things that we should be reloading for this fall. Listen, friends, you know and I, I know that you and I are a part of the local church and the local church is the only organization in the world that exists for people that are not here yet. You and I should be fanatically focused on the front door. We should be first time guest obsessed. And on today's episode I want to peek in on four discussions that talk about changing dynamics when it comes to connecting with first time guests. And no conversation around this whole area of assimilation would be complete without talking to and listening to Greg Curtis. If you do not know Greg, where have you been? He's been at Eastside Church for the last decade running their assimilation work and he's really seeing some interesting shifts in particularly young adults when it comes that I keep seeing across the country. And in this clip he's going to open up and tell you about a subtle shift that he has seen and some of the changes they've made around assimilating people when they come in. Now today's conversation we're gonna really frame around Greg's three part model. We talk about the screen to the seat, the seat to the circle, and then the circle to the street. We want you to understand that how we're connecting with guests today is different than what it looked like five years ago. It's definitely different than what it looked like pre Covid. So let's listen in first and see if we can catch what Greg is seeing and think about the dynamics that you're seeing at your chur listening to what Grace got to say. People get assimilated, get connected. What, what have you noticed? Maybe something that's, that's maybe different in the way people are engaging right now. That's different than maybe even a year or two ago.
- [02:13]
B
Over a crescendo over the last two years has been remarkable in its shift towards. This is going to sound crazy because we're talking to churches, they're wanting God now. And what I, what I mean by that is prior to we were having to sell the benefits of following Jesus most, most, most growing churches which there are. And I think it Was a compelling thing to share with the culture. And so people were coming to church to find community, to find help with parenting, to find support in marriage, or to, you know, a variety of different things. And so the draw and what was causing people to engage with church was really what help in my life. How can I increase the quality of my life? Maybe even get some pretty powerful pain points addressed. This has shifted. I'll put it in the terms of our young adult pastor. His name is Charles. He came to me, he said, greg, prior to two, three years ago, maybe not even that long. He said young adults were coming, 80% of them to find friends and community and about 20% to find God. He goes, it's flipped, it's flipped. Now it's 80% God and 20% community. And that has expressed itself in some remarkable ways. I'll just throw two out. At the end of last year, I was covering somebody, a pastor who was going to baptize somebody after the service. He had to be gone. So I said, yeah, I'll cover it. So in our context, I'll meet that person ahead of time and kind of show them where to sit in the service, when to come out, where the baptistry is, et cetera. And I met her, she was 28 years old, named Connie. And I said, as we're walking through the baptistry, so, you know, I asked these typical questions. How long you been coming to Eastside, which is my church? And she says, oh, I've never been to Eastside. And I was like, oh, so you're from our online campus? And she goes, no, I've never really heard of Eastside. And I said, well, what's led you to be baptized today?
- [04:20]
A
Right?
- [04:21]
B
And this was her story. She goes, I grew up in a very non religious home and I've. I've never been to church. And I have. I vowed I'd never even date a religious person. But I had some friends three months ago that invited me to watch the chosen with them. I didn't want to. I was mad at myself for getting engaged after the first episode. Kept watching, decided to buy myself a Bible. Two months ago, I started reading the old Testament and New Testament concurrently and decided I love Jesus and I want to follow him. And I could tell what I needed to do was get baptized. But get this, I'm the game day operations coordinator for the NFL, so I work on Sundays and I just googled who would baptize me on a Saturday. And your form came up and I filled it out. So here I am.
- [05:11]
C
Wow.
- [05:11]
A
That's amazing.
- [05:13]
B
Yeah. And I'll tell you what, she didn't know, Rich, that this baptism was going to be in front of other people until we were in the water and the whole church was looking at her.
- [05:22]
A
Wow, that's incredible.
- [05:26]
B
The questions she had, we've remained in touch. The questions she, she asks are so precious. I mean, but I'm telling you, I met with somebody. I've had a few of those that are similar. That one's pretty dramatic, but are very similar. No background at all. They're coming because they're having a God moment before they get to us.
- [05:44]
C
Yeah.
- [05:45]
B
And that's a big shift because God is doing something literally worldwide and in our culture right now that they're coming to us to find God and they're already, they're already encountering him in some way and they need help with that and want it. And that's a huge shift.
- [06:00]
A
Fantastic. Listen, if 80% of the guests are arriving at your church with a God question burning in their heart, the first 60 minutes, what we do every single weekend is critically important. I have seen this over my career. Listen, I had recently one of those birthdays with a zero on the end. And I can tell you as someone who's been three decades into ministry experience, there was a time where people stumbled into our churches and that's just frankly not happening anymore. People are arriving with real questions. And you know, we might have been able to in a previous generation entertain them or try to defuse this idea that like, we ain't your mama's church, but that isn't where people are at anymore. They're coming with real live questions in their heart. They're not stumbling into your church on Sunday morning because they don't know what's going on there. They're coming looking for real questions. And you and I, our processes, what we do on Sunday morning has got to meet that intensity. We can't just hand them a coffee mug and say, we'll see you next week. We've got to follow them up with, with some fervor and excitement and frankly a bit more intensity than what most churches are doing. I love this conversation. That's coming up with John Sellers. He's executive pastor of locations at Journey Church in Central Florida. Three campuses with a fourth on the way and is one of the most consistently fastest growing churches in the country. Now listen to what John talks about when he talks about the follow up process, that they aren't just leaving it to chance. They are working with intention to move these first Time guests and get them plugged in. The question I have for you is, is this the kind of intensity that you're following up your first time guests with? Let's listen in.
- [07:52]
D
So at our church, every location has a tent. It's a new here tent. And so the first step that we're communicating, the clear step on that first or second week is stop by the tent. Like I know that's a big step and we have to remind our serve team and behind curtain that seems simple to us. But like to a new person at a church, even going to a tent or making themselves known by filling out a connect card, even if it's digital, like that's a big step for somebody. And so a lot of our communication is go to the tent, we'd love to meet you. We've got a gift card for you just to celebrate the step of faith you took to be here today. And so once they take that step, it starts us being able to follow up, you know, through text messages, emails, phone calls, and really encouraging them to step into our next steps class. And so when they step into our next steps class, one of the things we're even constantly trying to think through what we call it because class probably isn't the best way to describe it. And we're actually revamping it right now. But for us, even that next steps class is a round table. It's relational, it's getting them around. Our next steps team that wants to hear their story, you know, what brought you through the doors, wants to begin to hear, you know, about maybe what's on their heart, where are they at? What's their next faith step? And so those are the first couple of weeks, if, if we can encourage them to stop by the tent, that allows us to stay in contact with them relationally. And then the next step would be man, go to one of our next steps classes after a service.
- [09:16]
A
Yeah, that's good. Can we pull apart a bit of the detail there? Just because I know people are asked are wondering this because I get these questions. So it sounds like when you arrive at the new here tent, there's a gift card there. Where's that gift card for? What is that? What is the value of that and why gift card? Talk to us about that.
- [09:33]
D
Yes. So for now we've, and we've experimented, we'll change, we'll change this up like constantly. But right now it's for a local coffee shop and it's, it's literally a five dollar gift card. It's just a thank you to say thank you for coming. It's, it's a little gift bag. It's got information about our church obviously. And it's just a step to the way we phrase it is. We know it's a big step of faith you took to be here today. And so we just want to celebrate the fact that you made it in the room. And so that's what it is. $5 on big events. We'll do, you know, Journey church cup and make it a little more, you know, more substantial. But it's just a $5 gift card to a local coffee shop.
- [10:10]
A
Yeah, that's great. And I love the, you know, the, the thinking behind that friends that are listening in is sometimes what I see churches do. They'll be like, hey, if you want to get connected or if you, if you've got interested about your next steps or if you're wondering where to go, drop by the, the tent in the, you know, outside. People are not asking that question when they first come. We, we've got to take a celebratory step. And I like what you're saying. I love that language of like, we want to celebrate the faith deputy by being here today and we want to give you a gift in exchange for that. People will do that for a $5 gift card. They, you know, or you know, coffee mug or whatever, you know, that's good. And then the other thing that caught my attention you said was, you said. And we follow up with texts and emails, talk about how, you know, how many of that, what's that communication process look like? This is another area where I see churches drop the ball all the time.
- [10:56]
D
Sure, it's a variety. There's a workflow that we use through our database system planning center that is owned by our weekend experience team members. But we basically it starts with an email from our lead pastor with a short video for them to watch a message directly from him. It includes a text message or phone call from the location pastors within two weeks. It includes other text messages and emails. So it lasts about six weeks and it's more information about how to take steps at our church. And so some of its vision, a lot of it is, is geared towards stepping into the next steps class. But yes, it's multiple and it's a variety and it's over the span of six weeks. And then we even have, you know, workflows built out that, you know, if somebody goes through that six week process without taking the next step that periodically we'll check back in with them.
- [11:45]
A
Boring stuff. Grows churches. I've said it before, I'm going to keep saying it. A monthly next steps cadence or New Year cadence, whatever you call it at your church. A $5 gift card may not be exciting, but it's the kind of thing that we see time and time again at fast growing churches. But the question is, what happens after week six? Where do we take people beyond this initial connection? In fact, I've seen in some churches that have done extensive studies on this, if people do not get plugged in in the first 100 days, they might come, they might even come back. But if they don't take a significant step, that is get on a team or in a group in those first hundred days, they will just not connect to your church. So I want to peek in on a conversation we had with Ashley Lentz. She's the connections pastor at a fantastic Chur Lutheran Church of Hope, a multi site church with seven campuses in central Iowa. There's 7,000 people at their one location every single weekend. And she really takes the longer arc view. Where do we go? It's really going back to what Greg talked about. There's this kind of seat to circle and then there's the circle to street. That's what this conversation is all about. How do we get these people who have taken these first few steps? What are we doing to get them actually plugged in? Let's listen in to what Ashley has to say. There's so much we can learn here. And again, I want you to be thinking about when you think about this fall at your church. Is there a way, are there some things you should be adjusting as we go into the fall?
- [13:18]
C
One of the tools that we use, and it is very much an internal tool, is what I would call it, we call it the Hope circle and it is what I would call a discipleship tool or a discipleship pathway. And if I were to say that to our congregation members, they would really have no idea what I'm talking about. It is very internal, but it's helpful to identify where people are on this hope circle. And so the circle starts with being a seeker at a church our size. We get people every weekend who have zero idea what the church thing is about. They've maybe never been introduced to Jesus. Someone just invited them to church. They maybe knew they needed church and walked in the door but have no idea what to expect. And so they are seeking something that has been missing in their life. And so helping people identify if that's where you are here are kind of the very preliminary Places that would be helpful for you to start plugging in. As we move around that circle, we get to believers, people who are like, okay, I'm bought into the Jesus thing. I've heard the message. I believe. Now what? Like, I want to understand this better. Like, I believe in Jesus, I believe in God. Like, I'm here for it, but I don't really know the things. So where do we go from there? And how do we help them then move into, like, being super excited about Jesus? Like, I don't just believe like, I'm on fire for Jesus. I'm a follower, right? Like, I am. I am. All in my life looks different. I've been transformed. How do I follow him? And then how do you serve people in that arena, too? Because that's going to look different than somebody who's come in as a seeker looking for Jesus and somebody who's on fire for Jesus. So how do we move them around the circle? So it's seeker, believer, follower, and then kind of the last part of our circle is servant leader. How do we move them then into serving and letting the transformed nature of the gospel pour out of them into the world around us? And I would say our secret sauce here at Hope is we love volunteers. Like, as we move people around the Hope circle, I and my colleagues, we want to equip people to lead. So being a servant leader inside these walls, but also outside these walls is really like, that's what's attractional to people, is letting them know, like, you're on fire for Jesus. Go tell everyone about it and serve in the arena you find yourself in, whether in the church or outside the church.
- [15:28]
E
That's good.
- [15:28]
A
A pathway you can't measure is a pathway you cannot improve. Friends, you've got a brain problem. Over 200 people. You simply cannot track where people are at in the processes we have talked about before. Your mind literally cannot hold in place where all of these people are at in their process. And so underneath everything we've talked about today, you need a robust approach to data. Listen, your church database is a care mechanism. It's just a way we make sure people do not fall through the cracks. And so everything that we've talked about in today's episode needs a robust approach to data and the way you handle data to move people just from a broad kind of like they're attending all the way through to caring, ensuring that they are plugged in. So I want to peek into one final conversation. Ronnie DeLong, she's the executive director of Partner Church Success at Touchpoint, but outside of that, she's formerly on staff at a large multi site church in Columbus, Ohio. And Touchpoint sits across hundreds of churches. And Ronnie sees the patterns. Listen, what I want you to listen to carefully Here is these four Cs that she talks about. Conviction, collection, clarity, care, and ask your question, are you doing this with your data? Does your data structure actually allow you to move people along in a way that ensures that we're actually getting them plugged in? Friends, I don't want you to miss the opportunity that God's bringing your way. And this conversation could help you think differently about that, particularly in the next couple months.
- [17:09]
E
Let's alliterate some more. Like I said, I was on church for a long time.
- [17:14]
A
Yes, exactly.
- [17:16]
E
Memorable, right? So this is a really simple framework that really is more stages, it's a progression. But even though it's simple, whether they know it or not, every church is in one of these stages when it comes to data driven discipleship. And so for kind of Cs of this or stages are conviction, collection, clarity and care. And I'll just give a brief description of each of those and then we can go dive in a little bit deeper. But conviction, really the question that we're answering here is do you truly believe this matters, even when it's not easy? So leaders believe that shepherding is important, but do we want to move into doing it proactively? And are we comfortable using data as a tool to do that? Well, so that's kind of the conviction piece. Do you really believe that this matters? Collection. Then are you committed to consistently gathering the data that's needed, not just once, but as a rhythm? It's hard work, but it is a worthy cause, a valiant effort. Let's move to clarity real quick. Again, the question we're answering is now that you have the data, do you have the insight? Do you really see what it's telling you and what are we doing with it? And then the last one air, of course, is where we're acting on the insights to connect with our people. Will you actually act on the insights and shepherd people or will it stay theoretical? That's, that's kind of where we're headed with this.
- [18:40]
A
We started this off today talking about how we see this pattern happening across the church. And I think these four episodes really hang incredibly together. Greg Curtis, he really named the moment that we're in. I really do think that we're seeing something that is generationally important and I do not want your church to miss it. John Sellers, I thought, gave a really clear discussion around how we move these people that are arriving. How do we get them to take those first steps and get plugged in? Then Ashley Lentz, she unpacked what it looked like to go from the seat to the circle to the circle to the street pathway. What are we doing to actually get people to plug in deep in our community? And then finally, Ronnie brought it home, giving us a measurement layer to really bring the whole thing together with some honesty and truth. Listen, this is the question. If I was sitting across from you and your staff this week, if I was in your staff meeting, the question I would simply ask is this, which of these four pieces is the weakest in our church as we approach this fall? And what's the smallest move we could make in the next 30 days to improve where we need to in these areas? We've got links to all of these show notes before. Please stay tuned. We've got incredible episodes coming in up, coming up all summer long and all fall long. Here at Unseminary, we're on a mission to help 100 churches like yours grow by a thousand people by talking about stuff they don't talk about in seminary. Thanks so much for being here, friends. We'll see you next week.
- [20:10]
B
Take care.