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unSeminary Podcast
Your Church Will Get the Crisis Call. Are You Prepared? with Rebecca Maxwell
00:36:59
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- [00:02]
A
Welcome to the Unseminary Podcast, the place where church leaders get practical insights, tips, and strategies for ministry growth. Today, you're stepping into something bigger than just a conversation. This podcast is part of a bold mission to help 100 churches grow by 1,000 people. Whether you're dreaming of increasing your impact in your community, empowering your team, or reaching more people with the message of Jesus, you're in the right place. We're here to bring you the stuff you wish they taught in seminary, ideas and tools you can put into action this week to see transformation in your ministry. Let's dive in.
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B
Hey, friends. Welcome to the Unseminary Podcast. So glad that you have decided to tune in today. You're going to be rewarded for that. I know that the conversation we're having today, that this week, probably four or five times you've thought about issues adjacent to this, and it's going to be super helpful. We are leveraging an expert. We're going to take, take advantage of this person to really help you this week and to help you solve some real problems. Excited to have Rebecca Maxwell with us. She is a licensed marriage and family therapist. She started Jacksonville counseling services in 2015 to serve her Florida community with counseling services that integrate best practices with a biblical foundation. The cool thing about Rebecca, well, there's lots of cool things about her, but one of the cool things about her is prior to her voyage into marriage and family therapy, she spent 50, 50. 15, not 50 years.
- [01:33]
A
I look amazing.
- [01:34]
B
Yeah, exactly. In church ministry with children, adolescents, and family. So it's just a great background, dual background for us to kind of tap into today. Rebecca, welcome to the show. So glad you're here.
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A
Yeah, glad to be here, Rich.
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B
I apologize for the 50 year. That's good.
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A
Hey, I mean, I look good for doing this for 50 years.
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B
Yeah, exactly. Why don't you kind of give us a bit of a background, tell us, fill out that, you know, bio a little bit. Tell us a little bit about yourself.
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A
Yeah. So married to a pastor, but I want to just be clear that I was in ministry first.
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B
Yes, good, good.
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A
I fell into ministry after getting a degree in management from Georgia Tech, and the Lord just kind of opened some doors and I had to figure out what that was going to look like. Started in ministry to teenagers, youth, and did that faithfully for many years and also did a little bit of adult discipleship and kids ministry along the way. Kind of got my training as I went along. And there was a point where God was just really beginning to lay the foundation for a different direction. A new call. And I spent a couple semesters in seminary trying to figure that out and didn't think that was where the Lord was taking me to finish that training. And a friend, honestly, this was the best question I've ever been asked. She asked me, rebecca, what do you love about youth ministry? What's the favorite. What's your favorite part of your job? And I said, you know, I love talking to teenagers and their parents about life stuff. And she said, well, I think you'd make a great counselor. And so that was the. That was the great question that got me in the direction of seeking more training in counseling. And I did marriage and family therapy because I was working with families so much and really believing that the health of the family was so important to the health of the kids. And the kids were really like my driving force in what I was doing. So that took me in that direction and along the way, got to do some cool things in ministry. And now working alongside churches in Christian, biblically based, also clinically informed counseling, and so have a practice in Jacksonville of. There's about 18 of us now. And along the way, God gave me an experience that allowed me to really know that I needed to be distinctively Christian and biblically based in my practice, that that was going to be important for my community. And so that's. That's what we do. We try to bridge the best of psychological science with what the Bible says.
- [04:32]
B
Yes.
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A
And serve our community well.
- [04:35]
B
Friends, you can see why I'm excited to have Rebecca on the, on the call today, because I think, well, there's a lot there, but there's, you know, this idea of, of being clinically informed and biblically based. I think you have a lot to help us think through these issues for, you know, as, as leaders, you know, we're wrestling with these kinds of questions all the time. We're thinking about all of these things, referring people, and all this. This comes up all the time. So you spent 15 years in church ministry before going down this road of being a licensed therapist. What did you see during those years as you reflect back on that time that made you realize, hey, maybe, maybe church leaders need more help in this space? I'm declaring that. I think we do. So, you know, I'm putting those words in your mouth. So, you know, don't, you know, don't be offended, listeners. That's me saying that. What do you, what do you think?
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A
Yeah, I think that I didn't know what I was seeing when I was in Minnesota. With some students in their families. I just knew that there was distress and I didn't know why in some cases. And not everything was a mental health issue, but I certainly missed a lot of those. I didn't know how to meet kids and families who were in, like, mental crisis moments. So, you know, my husband has been all the way through seminary, and so I know that he took one class in pastoral counseling that I helped him with. And so this is a big issue in our community. And I don't think that church leaders are generally well equipped, like, broadly. I know there are more and more church leaders who are doing a deeper dive into understanding mental health and mental illness. But I would say, by and large, the training isn't there. And the problem with that is that people, parishioners are going to go to their church leaders first when they're struggling because they're trusted. They're a trusted source of. On life. And so if our folks aren't trained well, they can unintentionally cause harm. And I want to emphasize unintentionally because nobody wants to, to miss something or cause harm. And, you know, they may accidentally just miss things. And, you know, suicide continues to be on the rise. And we don't want to miss the pleas, the cries of a desperate person. And we also don't want to minimize those. We don't want to give, you know, Christian euphemisms that don't really address and see what's going on deeper because people don't always show you what's going on deeper. Right. In the beginning. So a little bit of training goes a long way. And I know having been there and even now today, like, we just don't have enough, enough knowledge.
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B
Right.
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A
And church leaders are never going to be master's level therapists. That's not what I'm asking for. But I think we can have a better partnership to help each other.
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B
Yeah, that's, that's good. Well, let's, let's start. I want to come back to the suicide question in a minute. So I want to put a bookmark in that and come back to that because there's specifically, I want. I got a couple of questions around that that I'd love to get your thoughts on. But let's go back to that idea of pastors getting the first call. Many of us have been in on that. Right. We get the, you know, a family's in crisis mode, something is falling apart. I can't, I can't deal with this situation. In fact, actually, I've Used this as like an example when training campus pastors where I'm like, there's, you know, when someone calls you with a crisis call like that, what you say in the first 30 seconds matters. Like actually the, you know, even on the phone, you know, hey, you know, so what, what happens? Talk to us from your perspective. What, what usually happens in that conversation or what, where, where could that go sideways? How do we, how do we end up maybe intentionally we're trying unintentionally, we're trying to help, but things just don't go right because we do something dumb, you know, in the, in the first little bit.
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A
Well, I think all of us are problem solvers and so we want to give someone a solution to the thing that they're experiencing. And so that's where we can like, well intentioned, we can kind of drop people because if we too quickly try to just point them to a scripture or give them a truth which is true, we can tell them some true things about who God is and, and where he's working and those sorts of things. And again, it's true. But sometimes in that moment it's not helpful. Sometimes a person needs to get out a little bit more of what they're experiencing and just have someone to bear witness to their pain. Right. And we see this in the scripture. Jesus did this over and over where he, he, he spent that time with someone to kind of bear witness to their pain before he sent them in a different direction. And obviously we need both of those. I don't want people just swimming around in the pain forever either. That's not helpful. But I do think we move too quickly sometimes when we get that first call, you know, we just want to solve that thing and sometimes we just need to kind of slow down and, and give the ministry of presence.
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B
What's a good way. Maybe put a bit more kind of practical bones on that. I love that idea of the ministry of presence. Hey, we're just going to. My job right now is just to be here with you, Talk us through what that looks like.
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A
Yeah, I think it's allowing someone to get their story out and sometimes that's not convenient because sometimes it's long. So to get their story out to, and to be listening for the strengths and the positives that the person might be saying but isn't quite aware of. And actually, you know, this, this happened yesterday to us and so maybe like a story will help.
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B
Yeah, yeah, that's great.
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A
Someone called in to our main office line and got one of actually my Personal assistant didn't get the clinical admin, but got my personal assistant and asked the question, if I kill myself, will I go to hell?
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B
Wow.
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A
Yeah. And my personal assistant knew enough to reach out to our team right away. And so I was able to help kind of walk her through what to do. And some of the things that I told her were just keep this person talking. Right. Ask about their life, all aspects of what's going on, let them get their story out. Because what happens when we put words to our experience and someone bears witness to that is the emotions don't have such a grip on us. They kind of relax a little bit. And my assistant told me that as she was able to kind of just continue to keep this woman talking, that she could just over the phone line, experience kind of that release, that she got a little bit of relief, not ultimate relief, but a little bit of relief just in telling her story. And my personal assistant, I was able to walk her through listening for the strengths, listening for the positive things that then you can come back around to not minimizing or negating the struggle, but bringing more balance to the truth. Because then when they calm down and they're more in their logical brain, then you're able to deliver truth in a way that they can grab onto. But when they're heightened and they're in such distress, trying to kind of speak truth in that moment just kind of bounces off of them.
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B
Yeah, there's that moment of like. It's like that fight or flight thing that's going on in our brain. Right. Where we're just like, I just want out of this situation.
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A
Yes.
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B
Whatever's happening to me. And none of us make, you know, wise decisions in those moments.
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A
No.
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B
Yeah, that's. That's. That's amazing. How did your. Well, first of all, like, I think all of our churches have got a call like that. Maybe not exactly that one, but you get that call that's like, whoa, this is. This is heavy. And particularly. Yeah. So how did your. How did your assistant know what to do in that moment? How did you. Like that doesn't. Is that under other duties as assigned? How does. How did you. How are they prepared for that?
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A
Well, I think one, she doesn't have the clinical experience, but she is a believer and she's walking with the Lord and she has the ultimate power source within her. So she knew to immediately start kind of praying in her spirit as she was talking. And then she knew where to go, she knew who to call on. And I think that that's another important concept for church leaders is who are you going to call on in a crisis when you are sitting with someone who is actively considering ending their life or they're just in a really. Maybe they're not at that point, but there's. They're dealing with something else. Who are you going to call on? You don't. I tell church leaders, you don't have to have all the answers. You don't have to know exactly what to do and where to. Where to point people, but you have to know where to go to resource yourself. And that's what my personal assistant knew. She knew how to resource herself, how to get some help. And so I was able to, you know, she's on the phone and I'm texting her questions and things like that. So she knew where to go.
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B
Yeah, that's cool. You know, a best practice I've, we've seen in many churches, but I'm surprised, I still am surprised that when I bumped into churches and they don't have this is like a resource list of like, here are some trusted counselors, some trusted people to talk about. Talk to us about that from your side. You've seen both sides of that equation. How do we develop a list like that? How do we, how do we make that available? How do we, how do we do that in a way that is most helpful for, for our team, for maybe our staff or for people who are just at our church?
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A
Yeah, it takes a little bit of time, but there are resources in your community. You just have to find them usually.
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B
Yep.
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A
And there are some purely online resources as well. I think the first step is probably gaining some understanding of the different types of clinicians who are there.
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B
Right.
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A
And, and what they're best suited for, what issues they're best suited for. You may have someone in your congregation who is a counselor. And so that might be a good first step is to get them on board to help you create a vetted list to what should I be asking when I want to partner with someone? Because it's one thing to say I'm a Christian and a counselor. It's another thing to say I am counseling from a biblical framework. I'm counseling from a biblical worldview. And so, you know, understanding how to make that distinction, you know, someone in, in your congregation may, may have the ability to do that, but just how to ask the right questions so that you can begin to build a resource list of, like I said, we are biblical worldview, clinically, like informed. And so you, you want to have some people like that because we are operating under the license of our state. We have a code of ethics that we're following. We have oversight. And I think that's really important. You also have biblical and pastoral counselors that are. Some are very, very well trained. But you need to understand, like, what, what that lane is and what is a more clinically informed lane. And so, and a lot of people don't have that understanding and rightfully so. Right. There's so many different practitioners and we don't, we don't really know who has kind of what skills and what's appropriate in their lane.
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B
Yeah, absolutely. You got to do a little bit of research around even the language that's used. You know, the difference between like a life coach and a counselor and a therapist. And you know, like, and, you know, be a little bit suspicious. Suspicious of people if they're like, hey, I want to get on that list. And are there any from your. Give us the inside scoop. Are there any red flags that you would have? Let's say I'm reaching out. I'm talking to a number of therapists in my community and if somebody says something or is there something that, you know, I want to be wary of, Of. Oh, I'm not sure we necessarily want to point people in their direction.
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A
Yeah, I think this is a more subtle one, but I think when someone says, I'm a Christian, but, you know, I really don't bring that into my practice at all.
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B
You want to ask some follow ups?
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A
Yeah, let's ask them. Let's have some follow ups. Because in general, and I'll kind of expound on this particular one, regardless of what the clinician's faith background is, we are trained to bring up a person's spiritual part of self as part of holistic practice. Unfortunately, a lot of clinicians are just leaving that part out completely because of politics and taboos and, you know, and we don't want to get in trouble sometimes with our licensing boards. Right, right. But we are all trained to see a person holistically. And we would, in, in my field, we would say biopsychosocial, spiritual, biological, psychological, social relationships, and spiritual. But we've kind of left out the spiritual. And so we should all, no matter whether you're a Christian or not, we should all be asking and inquiring about a patient's spiritual life. And that's a really easy open door. So if someone says, you know, I'm such and such, but I don't, you know, I really don't bring that up in counseling at all. I understand that they're afraid to. And there's. I understand. But you really want a clinician who's not afraid to inquire more generally about a person's spiritual life.
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B
Right.
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A
And.
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B
Yeah. And the combo of doing that in a licensed environment, you know, so you're getting kind of the best of both worlds there really makes a lot of sense. Like, hey, we were. You know, I understand why. You know, that makes. That makes sense. That's a good. That's a good line there. So kind of a different. It's related, but different train of thought. I know there are churches out there that have, like, a negative view on. On, like, mental health, on mental illness, on counseling in general. They. It gets really black and white and they're. It's like, I have a family. Yeah. Have a family member who their pastor told them, you know, it's just totally a sin issue. And like, they had been struggling with issues for a long time. And, you know, that was a huge weight on their. On their life that they carried, you know, for well into their kind of 80s late weight into life. And talk to us, unpack that for us. I think that's such a dangerous approach, but help us understand that mindset. Why is that dangerous? What's behind that instinct?
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A
I think that. I think the instinct is probably good that the Bible gives us everything we need for life and godliness. And I think sometimes it's just potentially a misinterpretation of just a holistic understanding. Heart, soul, mind, and strength of a person that the mind. Because in Deuteronomy, it. It doesn't say heart, soul, mind, and strength. That comes in Jesus words in Mark and I think also Luke. But in Deuteronomy, it's heart, soul, strength. And so mind is not broken out in that original text. And then I believe that it is broken out enlisted in the New Testament because I really think Jesus wanted to highlight that. And we see. I mean, the mind is talked about about 180 times in the New Testament. And so it's a really important aspect of us. And so I think that unintentionally the mind is not considered distinctly and is maybe not seen as an object of brokenness and illness in the same way. Right. Like, we see, obviously, we see if the pancreas doesn't work properly, we have diabetes. Right. Or we get cancer, and obviously that's, you know, not our fault. But the mind is the thing we have the most control over. And so I think people think that that's just a sin issue. You just need to stop or do something differently. And we don't have the full understanding, especially because science is still understanding the interplay between the mind and the physical brain and how they interact with each other. And so I just don't think a lot of people have kind of caught up with understanding that, you know, that is a distinct part of self that can be broken, just like the body can be broken. Right.
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B
Just like you're in a broken leg or whatever.
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A
Right.
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B
Yeah, that. And I think that's a great. That is a great transition to. You've actually written a book on this that I'd love to unpack a little bit. You use this, you know, whole self integration, heart, soul, mind and strength. It's kind of at the core of what you're talking about. Why don't you walk us through that framework a little bit more? The book we're talking about is Jesus and your mental health, linking God's word and modern science to find peace about mental health. I would love people to pick up copies of this. We'll get to that in a bit. But kind of unpack how that those four inform the framework of the conversation in this book.
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A
Yeah, so it's really like setting our thinking on holistic health and putting mental health right inside the framework of whole self. So we do things to. We do things to help our physical health and our spiritual health and our relational health. And so we probably ought to be thinking about the health of our mind. You know, again, it's mentioned 180 times plus in the new Testament, so it must be pretty important, this renewing of our mind and how we go about that and this idea that we're integrated so our mind impacts our body, impacts our soul, and our soul impacts our body impacts our mind impacts our relationships, like, it's all integrated. And we can utilize some of the healthy habits of the other three parts to help our mind. And we can utilize this thing, we have control over our mind to impact the other parts of self. And we know this just anecdotally in our own lives. Right. Like, very simple things. Like when my dad taught me to throw a softball, he had me point at the target and direct my body and my mind and my eyes in that direction. And then the ball went there. Well, we can use that concept, you know, in all of mental health, you know, where we direct our mind, the rest of us follows. And so really just understanding that integration and how we can use it for the common good and not. Not separating this mental health and continuing to stigmatize it as, you know, just a sin problem. I think that's where we go wrong is that if you have a malady of the mind, it's really a sin problem. Sometimes it is. Right, but it's a little more complicated than that as well.
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B
Right? Yeah. It seems like there's a false dichotomy in a lot of leaders minds around. Well, it's exactly what you're talking about. Bible and psychology, Bible and therapy. Like there's a, there's like those two things can't interact with each other. Which side of that equation do you experience more? Like, is it more from like church leaders that are skeptical or is it more from maybe leaders who are from outside the church who, you've mentioned this already, who don't pursue kind of the spiritual conversation? Which of those do you see? Because I can see it from both sides where I'm like, oh, I could see on both sides of that conversation people are like, and then we're not meeting in the middle. And that's why it's great that you exist and why your organization exists. So talk to us about where do you see the pressure more from?
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A
I really see it on both sides, honestly. Just kind of like you're describing, you know, secular psychology really wants to leave out spirituality and any, any really, any firm truth, you know, absolute truth.
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B
Right.
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A
And then the church, because of that, a lot of times just in general will be like, well, we got to throw all of that away because it's not useful at all. And I just, I don't, I don't think that's helpful. We, we utilize science, scientific concepts in our everyday life. And so we, you know, we need to find the good and the truth in what research based psychological science is showing us because there is some common good there, just like there is in other scientific discoveries.
- [26:35]
B
Well, I think this is a great resource. I'm so glad you've put this book together and I'd love to talk about how you could see it being used. I know for me. And we'll link in the show notes actually to a sample of the book so you can, you don't even have to buy anything. Just look at the sample to start before you buy it. I thought this could be a great resource for us as like a staff team to read through as kind of like a, hey, here's like a primer on some of these issues for us to be thinking about, even just to kind of frame the conversation to be thinking about these things. But who are you Picturing, as you put this together, what's your kind of vision for how you hope this resource will be used by churches?
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A
Yeah, when I wrote the book, I was picturing someone kind of like me and my friends who are, you know, love the Lord, love their families, are trying to help their families live in health in all aspects of their life. And as I was writing it, what I realized with also some prompting of my pastor, was that this could be a really great resource for equipment equipping churches. The very people that I wrote it for, the mamas, you know, in that are serving in the church and very involved, but also church staff and volunteer leaders. Because what I'm trying to give people is really a grounding for how to think about mental health and mental illness from a suffering, you know, putting it in like a suffering standpoint and then equipping them with a ton of scripture to back up the understanding of the mind and the brain and how to have a healthy mind. What happens when the mind isn't healthy? And then some common, both some common roots of mental illness, including trauma and family of origin issues, and then some. Some really common problems in the area of mental health, anxiety, depression, grief and loss. So that people can be equipped with a resource that they can hand to someone, or they can say, hey, read chapter seven on anxiety, you know, and someone is going to get a biblical understanding of where anxiety shows up in the scripture, how Jesus shows up in that? What are some practical ways that psychological science gives us to deal with that? What does the Bible say about how to deal with that? And let's kind of put all of these things together so they're really going to have both just under an understanding, a grounding in mental health, and also some practical ways to address those issues. And then really ending with like, hey, how do you know when you need more help than what this book can give you? And how do you find the right person to help you?
- [29:27]
B
Yeah, it's fantastic. Yeah, there's, you know, just. Even as I'm flipping through, looking at the chapters, like, so much helpful stuff in here. Identity and self esteem. Who does Jesus say I am? Attachment. How did my childhood impact my relationship? Trauma. That's a word we hear all the time. Where is Jesus when that happened? I think there's just. This is gonna be so helpful for so many leaders to check out and to use as a resource. I think this is the kind of book like you said I could picture. Hey, I got five copies of this and I'm gonna end up in a conversation where it's maybe not somebody that's in like an immediate crisis right now, but maybe their kid is wrestling with these issues. And on top of, yes, I'll meet with them, I'll pray with them, and yes, here's the list of counselors. But like, here's a book to read as well to help you think through this. I think this could be incredibly helpful for people. I hope so.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Yeah. Where can people get. If they want to get copies of this book, where do we want to send them to pick up copies of this?
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A
Yeah, anywhere books are sold online. So Amazon and Barnes and Noble, Walmart, target places like that. And folks can reach out to me about getting like bulk copies. They may already have places they get bulk books, but they can reach out to me to get that. I have some other resources like discussion guides that I am happy to give and people reach out to me, discussion guides and other just resources for folks that maybe I've had a bunch of people reach out because they want to kind of do a book study with their disciple group or things like that. So, you know, my goal really is to equip the church. I want the church to be the trusted source where people can come to and begin a healing journey. And so I think this will help equip people in the church, both, you know, paid staff and lay leaders, to really help people.
- [31:22]
B
If people want to reach out to you, where. Where do we want to get? Where do we do that? Where do we want them to do that too?
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A
Yeah. Best is probably my website. Jesus and your mental health dot com.
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B
Love it. That's great. I want to talk about that trusted source idea that you just referenced there. This conversation is a conversation that's happening in the broader culture. It's just happening. Right. Like it's.
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A
It's.
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B
You open up. I read the Economist all the time. Every week in the Economist, there's some sort of article that is, if not directly talking about this, it's connected to it. What happens when the church in general just stays silent on the mental health issues? What happens if we don't engage? This kind of inspire us a little bit?
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A
Yeah, well, there's a lot of noise and so people are going to go to TikTok and Instagram and even ChatGPT to get their information. And they're not always going to get biblically informed information. And that's why it's so important that we're equipped, because people are coming to churches more and more for practical guidance on the stuff that they're actually going through. And the Bible is not silent on the practical stuff. And so we want to be well equipped to go to the scripture with them and to point them in the right direction and to give them some kind of guardrails and guidance for finding help. Otherwise it's like you're kind of floating out in this sea of information. I wouldn't even say knowledge or wisdom, but information. And you don't really know where to anchor.
- [32:59]
B
Yes, yes. Five steps to. Yeah, that's so good. It's interesting on the AI thing, there's a bunch of studies that have shown that's really the primary use, how people are using ChatGPT, particularly they're using it as like a counselor. And I mean that's like, that's dangerous. So it's incredible. Well, this has been a great conversation. Any kind of final words you'd say as we wrap up today's discussion?
- [33:27]
A
Yeah, you know, kind of. I think the thing I want to leave people with is a little bit of where we started in the beginning, which is managing crisis. Something that's really, I think important for anybody working with people is to get trained in how to prevent suicide. And there is a training called qPR instead of CPR.
- [33:49]
B
Yeah, yeah.
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A
Tell us about this question. Persuade, respond. And it's like an hour long, maybe 90 minute online training where anyone that works with people can be trained in how to basically do CPR for people that are having a mental health crisis that could literally save lives and the skills that are taught in, that are transferable to people that aren't in crisis. And so that's the thing I mostly want to leave. Like there's a lot of information to be found and obviously I would love people to get my book, but I really want everyone that works with people to be trained in how to respond to people who are having a mental health crisis, how to know what to say, say how to persuade them to get help. I think that, you know, we could, we could really save lives there.
- [34:40]
B
Yeah, that's, that's. How do we go about finding QPR training? Like if we, I think this is again, what a great takeaway. You've landed this great takeaway right here at the end, even for our staff teams. Let's get that on our schedule. Like, I think about the people that are answering the phone at the church. I'm like, I was thinking about that earlier when you were talking about your assistant. I'm like, man, I want to make sure that they get the kind of training because, you know, I don't want to fumble that ball. So where, where do we, where would people find training this QPR training?
- [35:09]
A
You can, you can find them online. I think it's qpr.org but I'm kind of looking it up as we speak. Dang it. I should have had that reference.
- [35:18]
B
QPR.
- [35:19]
A
It's qprinstitute.com perfect. Qprinstitute.com great.
- [35:26]
B
Perfect. That's fantastic. Well, Rebecca, I really appreciate you being on today and helping us, serving us. I want to make sure folks, again, the name of that book is Jesus and your mental Linking God's Word and Modern science to find peace about mental health. Grab that at Amazon or Barnes and Noble. We'll put links in the show notes to that. We'll put links in the show notes to your website anywhere else we want to send them online so they can track with you or with the book.
- [35:53]
A
Yeah, our, our practice website is Jacksonville counseling.net so we only really can practice in Florida, Texas, Colorado. That's where we have but we do have a blog, a mental health blog on there. I have a podcast called Jesus and you'd Mental health. So those are some other resources just you know, to get more information about mental health concepts. You know, we all love a good podcast and a bite sized learning on something. So those are a couple, couple extra things for folks.
- [36:29]
B
Well, Rebecca, I appreciate you being here today. Thanks so much for being on the show.
- [36:32]
A
Yeah, thanks Rich. Thanks for tuning in to the Unseminary podcast. Drop by unseminary.com for more helpful resources for you and your team. There you will find articles online, online courses and so much more unseminary stuff you wish they taught in seminary.
- [36:50]
B
Presented by CDF Capital.
- [36:52]
A
Visit them at CDF Capital Unseminary.