
Hosted by Greg La Blanc · EN

As conversation swirls around how the U.S. is going to pay back its $30 trillion debt, old concerns about public debt have been raised once again.Barry Eichengreen is a professor of economics at UC Berkeley and one of the leading experts on international currency markets and their history. His books include Globalizing Capital: A History of the International Monetary System, The Populist Temptation: Economic Grievance and Political Reaction in the Modern Era, and most recently, In Defense of Public Debt. Barry and Greg delve into the pros and cons of public debt, the mechanisms ensuring sovereign debt repayment, and the potential risks of inflation, and put modern debt levels into perspective by looking back at other major financial events in history. They also discuss the impact of political polarization on long-term financial decisions.**This episode was recorded in 2021.** *unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*Show Links:Recommended Resources:Napoleonic WarsCorporation of Foreign BondholdersForeign Bondholders Protective CouncilMario DraghiRicardian Equivalence Anne Osborn KruegerArgentine Debt CrisisGuest Profile:Faculty Profile at UC BerkeleyProfessional Profile on XHis Work:In Defense of Public DebtThe Populist Temptation: Economic Grievance and Political Reaction in the Modern EraGlobalizing Capital: A History of the International Monetary SystemHall of Mirrors: The Great Depression, the Great Recession, and the Uses-and Misuses-of History Exorbitant Privilege: The Rise and Fall of the Dollar and the Future of the International Monetary SystemGolden Fetters: The Gold Standard and the Great Depression, 1919-1939Episode Quotes:The political capacity to issue public debt goes hand in hand with financial development31:25: If you go back and look at the history, you see the value to financial markets of sovereign debt—that as sovereigns’ and states’ debts begin to be recognized as safe and liquid with political checks and balances, they become safe. With the development of markets in them, they become more liquid. They're then used as collateral for other borrowing and lending, and you accelerate the development of private financial markets. So, I think the political capacity to issue public debt goes hand in hand with financial development, and financial development, historically, is an important component of economic development.Public debt as a lifeline in times of crisis02:58: Public debt has been critically important in history. To enable states to meet emergencies—so, if you look at the history, it has been issued typically in wartime to defend the realm. Admittedly, states and rulers have issued it to fight offensive as well as defensive wars, but also to meet threats, pandemics, natural disasters, and other national emergencies.Why public debt levels depend on politics and time34:50: I don't think economic science is advanced to the point where we can identify an optimal or uniquely sustainable level of public debt. I think politics impinges on this as well. So, if you ask a German politician and an American politician what an appropriate or optimal level of public debt is, they'll give you very different answers. Economic circumstances change over time as well. So, public U.S. public debt in the hands of the public has basically tripled since the turn of the century. Debt service—interest paid on that debt as a share of GDP—hasn't budged. Interest rates have come down, and they've been trending downward for the better part of 30 or 40 years. That has made it easier to sustain a heavier level of public debt.

What are the ramifications of holding a fixed mindset over a growth mindset? How does it alter the mechanics of the people within a company and what can be done to shift an entrenched culture mindset?Mary C. Murphy is a Professor of Psychology and Brain Science at the University of Indiana, and the author of the book Cultures of Growth: How the New Science of Mindset Can Transform Individuals, Teams, and Organizations.Greg and Mary discuss the differences between growth and fixed mindsets, the significant impact of environmental factors on a given mindset, and the concept of mindset culture. Mary shares insights from her research and personal experiences, including her collaboration with Carol Dweck on the external factors influencing mindset. Their conversation covers the practical applications of growth mindset principles in education and corporate settings, how to implement effective learning systems, the role of leadership in fostering a culture of growth, and the importance of reframing effort in relation to ability. *unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*Show Links:Recommended Resources:Carol DweckJoseph AddisonVitality CurveKathleen HoganSatya NadellaGrowth Mindset vs. Fixed MindsetJean TwengeSara BlakelyYerkes–Dodson LawGuest Profile:MaryCMurphy.comFaculty Profile at the University of Indiana BloomingtonSocial Profile on InstagramSocial Profile on XHer Work:Cultures of Growth: How the New Science of Mindset Can Transform Individuals, Teams, and OrganizationsGoogle Scholar PageEpisode Quotes:Reframing effort and ability through growth mindset41:55: So, what the growth mindset culture does—and what we do when we are creating growth mindset learning environments or working environments in companies—is that we're really trying to reframe that relationship between effort and ability. Pointing out, telling stories, showing people, having them do self-reflection on where they made the most progress, right? Where do you actually see the best outcomes coming? Is it always effortless, or have there been challenges that have been overcome, strategies that had to be pivoted, and teams that had to come together, right? So, illuminating the process of success helps people understand whether or not effort is what's required for ability, required for high success, right? And strong success and excellence. Why growth cultures are more diverse and inclusive49:36: In a culture of growth, it's much more diverse naturally. Why? Because it's not about matching to some narrow prototype of success that looks or feels a certain way. Instead, it's about who can grow the most, who can develop the most, who can pivot, who's overcome challenges. And when we look at our society and look at who has overcome challenges, who has actually had to pivot, try new things, and overcome these structural barriers, we see that that's a much more diverse group of people. And it's not just focused on any one identity. And so, we see that in these cultures of growth, they attract, retain, promote, and positively evaluate a much wider variety of people.How do we mirror growth to inspire workplace success?34:50: As adults in the workplace setting, if we can create relationships where we actually show employees and our direct reports—individual contributors—where we have seen their growth and development, appreciate that, and mirror it for them, it puts them in that growth mindset. This makes them willing to try something new, to continue to push, and to continue to develop either in that area or in a new area that's required in the moment. And so, I think that's one thing that we can do pretty easily—to just be that mirror for process, growth, and development for people and help them reflect on that for themselves.

What are the problems facing academic journals today? What changes to the system could be made to address them? How could being more open about studies that aren’t successful actually be a success strategy overall?Faye Flam is a science and medical journalist, a columnist for Bloomberg, host of the podcast Follow the Science, and the author of The Score: The Science of the Male Sex Drive.Greg and Faye discuss the importance and challenges of science journalism. Their conversation touches on the role of science journalists in translating and evaluating scientific data, the replication crisis, the influence of fraudulent research, the dynamics of public trust in science, and the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on public health communication. They also examine the issue with the growing proliferation of deepfakes, ‘fake news,’ and the importance of maintaining journalistic integrity in an increasingly digital age.*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*Show Links:Recommended Resources:Replication CrisisScience JournalAmerican Institute of PhysicsAmerican Chemical SocietyGary TaubesRobert F. Kennedy Jr.Peter M. Sandman Risk Communication WebsiteGuest Profile:Faye Flam Personal WebsiteWikipedia ProfileLinkedIn ProfileSocial Profile on XSocial Profile on BlueSkyFacebook PageHer Work:The Score: The Science of the Male Sex DriveBloomberg ArticlesForbes ArticlesFollow the Science PodcastEpisode Quotes:Science journalism and the challenge of neutrality38:23: I think that it's harder these days to sell the kind of story that I used to think was, that I still think is, kind of the heart and soul of science journalism, which is to try to separate the science from the values, try to understand why people are disagreeing, try to understand where the science has evolved, where the science might have been wrong in the past. So even something as fraught as whether sex is binary, I think at least in the past, that's something you could tackle as a journalist without taking sides, but just adding clarity and adding context and saying, you know, these people disagree because they have different values and they want to use different language. They're interpreting things differently. But there are certain aspects of biology that everybody agrees on.Rethinking failure in science10:08: People have to rethink the meaning of failure. If you have a hypothesis that's kind of a long shot, and you test it, and you do a really good experiment, and you find out the hypothesis didn't hold up, well, you've tested that. Maybe that's something you can rule out. That should be an acceptable, perfectly normal part of science. It's not a failure per se. It's just that sometimes you have to rule something out that's a long shot.On the confidence trap of AI49:01: One of the hazards of AI is that people—it's so confident—it answers questions with so much confidence, and it sounds so smart that people just assume it's right. And it's often not right. People call them hallucinations, but it can just be, with some subtle thing in your prompt, right? I think there is going to be a period where people are seduced into believing AI because it can be so incredibly smart, and it makes these statements with so much confidence. But a lot of it—there is this kind of chaos to it. Little changes in the prompt will completely change the answer.

The problem with the business mindset of “move fast and break things” is that what often gets broken is people. But how can companies take care of their employees without sacrificing accelerated growth?Frances Frei is a professor of technology and operations management at Harvard Business School. She’s spent decades researching operational design and leadership and has co-authored numerous books like, Move Fast and Fix Things: The Trusted Leader's Guide to Solving Hard Problems and Unleashed: The Unapologetic Leader's Guide to Empowering Everyone Around You. She and Greg discuss the importance of fostering a culture of curiosity, why moving fast and breaking things is not worth it, and how inclusion can be an organizational superpower. *unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*Episode Quotes:Can you do layoffs with dignity?27:01: When Elon Musk famously bought Twitter, he did layoffs and maybe a caricature of how to do everything wrong. But on the same day, he did layoffs, Stripe did layoffs. And so we got the two. Like on the same day, you could see the transcript of what Elon said to his employees and what Stripe said to their employees. So now Stripe didn't anticipate the layoffs, but the guy took responsibility for it in a way that I think strengthened the organization. That's what I mean. Either anticipate it so you don't have to do it or take responsibility that you did it and you learn the lessons…[28:02]I'm not sure we code layoffs as the management failure as they mostly are. And so I treat it, and I'm not saying this with any extra judgment; just learn from it like we do everything else. Like, great, yeah, you went through a layoff, what went wrong, learn from it so that you can avoid it the next time.Curiosity is a cultural artifact11:42 Curiosity is a cultural artifact; it's a cultural behavior. It's a cultural mindset, and when you have it, the symptoms are delightful to you because you're going to get curious about it. So many organizations have the "don't bring me a problem unless you bring me a solution," which is the opposite of curiosity. It's guaranteed not to have very much improvement.Inclusion as an operational superpower41:22: Inclusion, to me, the reason I like it so much, is I know of no other thing that can get me achievement, sentiment boosts, and performance with no new people and no new technology. I find inclusion to be an operational superpower. No new people, no new technology, and business performance and employee engagement skyrocketed.Speed vs. sensibility22:41: When people were writing code, and the code didn't influence individuals, I don't care if you got the code wrong and you wanted to move fast and fix things, and that somehow helps you do faster iterations of code. But when it's humans, personally, it's a worldview. I personally have a problem with it. That's the first thing. The second thing is it seduces you into thinking you are going faster, breaking things along the way, but when you factor in the collateral damage and the rework that you have to do, you're scarcely going faster; you just that somebody else had to pay for it later, and you got the advantage of it today. So, I think it's also misguided.Show Links:Recommended Resources:Little’s LawTravis KalanickKarim R. Lakhani | unSILOedServiceNowValerius MaximusThe No-Stats All-Star by Michael Lewis (New York Times)Chris ArgyrisAmy Edmondson | unSILOedAnita TuckerGuest Profile:Faculty Profile at Harvard Business SchoolProfessional WebsiteHer Work:Move Fast and Fix Things: The Trusted Leader's Guide to Solving Hard ProblemsUnleashed: The Unapologetic Leader's Guide to Empowering Everyone Around YouUncommon Service: How to Win by Putting Customers at the Core of Your BusinessFixable podcast