Best Days Podcast Season 11 Episode 2

Summary

Podcast Summary: Victory Church - Best Days Podcast (Season 11, Episode 2)

Release Date: April 1, 2026
Hosts: John & Arvin (Victory Church Production Team)
Episode Theme:
A behind-the-scenes look at Victory Church’s passion for excellence in ministry and creative productions, centering on stewardship, honor, sincere purpose, and lessons learned through frustrations and creative challenges—specifically through the lens of the church’s major Easter production, "The Great Forever".

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Overview

In this episode, John and Arvin reflect on Victory Church’s journey of creative ministry—how they’ve moved from “good enough” to “God’s best” (and what that means practically and spiritually). With opening night of "The Great Forever" Easter production as the backdrop, they dive deep into the why and how of church productions, the tension and growth that comes from pursuing excellence, and the importance of stewarding every opportunity with sincerity and honor. Throughout, they offer wisdom applicable to life, leadership, and faith—beyond just church programming.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

What Drives Ministry and Creative Productions?

• Victory's Offering Heart: The church is known for meeting diverse needs—single parents, prison ministry, youth sports, and more. But the challenge arises: How can so much be done with excellence? (01:10–02:08)
• The “Bumblebee Analogy”: Victory's size and scope sometimes seem impossible, like a bumblebee flying despite physical improbability. The answer: God’s grace and committed leadership. (01:39–02:08)

Moving Beyond "Good Enough": The Pursuit of Excellence

• A Frustration Becomes a Calling: John honestly shares frustrations over offering productions that weren’t the best they could be, sparking a conviction to improve for God’s glory. (02:08–03:40)
• Quote – John [03:13]:
  “We would do productions, but we don’t do them to the best that they could be...Do everything as you do unto the Lord.”

The Power of Honest Evaluation and Vision

• Purpose Revealed Through Frustration:
  John references Pastor Paul’s “Jacob” series: What frustrates us often points towards our purpose.
  “That emotion...pushes you to action. There’s a reason God put that inside you.” (05:42)
• Arvin’s Insight:
  “You can’t really be frustrated unless you innately have a vision of what it could be…The gap between what it is and what you see is the frustration amount.” (06:22–06:36)

Growth is Incremental

• Learning by Doing:
  Every production is a step forward, each informed by what’s been learned in previous projects. (06:36–07:18)
• Memorable Moment:
  Arvin describes the pure joy of creative collaboration:
  “For the rest of my life, when I remember my time here, that will be the juiciest, most delightful memory—figuring something out together in this room.” (07:20–08:31)

Unique Storytelling as Ministry

• Victory’s Distinctive Approach:
  Not just retelling biblical stories word-for-word, but crafting unique, Spirit-led interpretations that resonate with modern audiences while upholding scriptural truth. (09:28–11:48)
• Arvin on Uniqueness:
  “What you get at Victory…is an absolutely unique iteration...[with] modern influences as well as the timeless story of Jesus.” (09:34–11:48)

Sincerity & Stewardship vs. Pressure

• Stewardship Mindset:
  A steward multiplies; it's not just about managing but about investing everything into what God gives you—like raising a child. (12:13–13:44)
• Sincerity as Antidote to Pressure:
  Quote – Arvin [22:23]:
  “Sincerity is the antidote to pressure.”
  • Pressure is self-focused; sincerity shifts focus to serving others and serving God. (22:20–22:23)

Dealing with Frustration, Leadership, & Honor

• Processing Frustration:
  Don’t let frustration become gossip or toxicity—honor those above you, and vent upwards (to God, counselors), not downwards. (27:57–31:00)
• Quote – John [31:31]:
  “The person is not the problem. The problem is the problem.”
• The Law of Honor:
  Whatever you sow in terms of words and gestures toward leadership will come back to you when you’re in leadership. (29:49–33:27)
• Faith and Structure:
  Biblical principles of authority, stewardship, honor, and God-ordained leadership structures hold true—no matter the context. (33:27–34:16)

Reflection Questions for Growth

• Is it True, or Just Convenient?
  Arvin’s self-check: When assuming you’ve been wronged, pause—
  “Is this really true, or is that merely convenient?” (36:13–38:01)

The Cautionary Tale: Giftings Misused

• Harvey Weinstein Example:
  Arvin relates the story of how a God-given purpose can be misdirected to meet unhealthy, unmet emotional needs—warning against letting your calling be hijacked by unresolved wounds. (39:44–41:56)

Embracing Your “Best Days” & Evolving Toward God’s Purpose

• The “You” You Haven’t Met Yet:
  There is a future, God-ordained version of us—found through stewardship, honor, and honest growth through difficulties. (43:31–43:54)
• Mental Health and Self-Awareness:
  When you feel the pull towards unhealthy self-satisfaction (lust of the flesh, pride of life, etc.), acknowledge it and get help to remain sincere and purpose-driven. (44:16–45:05)
• Spiritual Encouragement:
  “Everything your hand touches prospers. He has that version [of your future] ready for all of us.” (43:32)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Vision vs. Reality:
  “The gap between what it is and what you see is the frustration amount.” – Arvin [06:36]
• On Sincerity & Pressure:
  “Sincerity is the antidote to pressure.” – Arvin [22:23]
• On the Creative Process:
  “It’s not my intellect...We are very limited...so the fact that I don’t feel that [pressure], I’m like, ‘Okay, God, You’re still working.’” – John [26:08]
• On Honoring Leadership:
  “When you honor the person above you, you are putting yourself in the category of ‘Okay, God, this is now up to you.’” – Arvin [34:16]
• On God-Given Purpose:
  “There’s a version of us that we have not yet met.” – John [43:31]

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Important Timestamps

• Production Excellence & Its Origins: [02:08–05:42]
• Purpose Out of Frustration & Vision: [05:42–08:31]
• Unique Storytelling Philosophy: [09:28–11:48]
• Stewardship vs. Management: [12:13–13:44]
• Sincerity Replacing Performance Pressure: [22:20–22:23]
• Healthy Leadership Dynamics & Venting: [27:57–31:31]
• Is it True, or Just Convenient? [36:13–38:01]
• Cautionary Example (Harvey Weinstein): [39:44–41:56]
• Evolving Towards Purpose: [43:31–44:13]
• Finding Help & Staying Sincere: [44:26–45:05]

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Excellence and sincerity are not reserved for big productions—these principles apply to parenting, business, leadership, and relationships.
• God uses righteous frustration to birth purpose, but honor and humility are necessary for healthy, sustainable impact.
• Stewardship means multiplying what’s given—not just maintaining it—and sincerely investing yourself in God-given opportunities.
• If frustration arises, process it well: don’t vent down, cultivate honor, and check your perspective—is it really true, or just convenient?
• Stay aware of motives; unresolved needs can hijack even the noblest calling. Seek spiritual and practical support as needed.

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For more information on Victory Church or to watch "The Great Forever," visit victory.com.

“There’s a version of us we have not yet met. God has your future—He has that version ready for all of us.” – John [43:31]

Transcript

[Arvin]

Hello. Hi, everybody. Welcome back.

[John]

Welcome back. This is behind the Scenes Best days. My name is John.

[Arvin]

I'm Arvin.

[John]

And this is season 11. 11.

[Arvin]

11 seasons of this.

[John]

Wow. 11 seasons of behind the scenes are best days. I know we talked about this on episode one, but that is a praise report.

[Arvin]

A lot of scenes to get behind. That's right.

[John]

A lot of scenes.

[Arvin]

A lot of scenes have happened.

[John]

A thousand percent. Well, if you guys don't know what this podcast is or if you're a new listener, we're so grateful that you are here to listen and watch. We are part of the ministry here at Victory. Victory has this Victory confession that we say before every service. And within that confession, we say the words. Our best days are right in front of us. So me and Arvin, we work on the production team here at Victory, and so we kind of talk about the behind the scenes of our best days because everyone has their quote unquote best days, but also everyone has the behind the scenes of it. What that looks like, the structure, the guts of it.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

So not just of ministry, but also of life.

[Arvin]

That's right. That's right.

[John]

Well, tonight is the opening night.

[Arvin]

That's right. If you're watching this the day it comes out, April 1st, then tonight is night one of the great forever.

[John]

The great forever Easter production. And it's been really special. Whenever we first came in to, you know, the. Whenever we first came into the production world here at Victory, you know, the one thing that Victory has done is that Victory loves to offer things.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

Like, hey, we offer this for single parents. We offer the prison ministry.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

We offer, you know, and at the school, it's like, okay, we have a varsity girls soccer team. Let's offer a junior high girls soccer team. And we're trying to meet a lot of people's needs. And so sometimes it's kind of like how it almost doesn't make sense how a bumblebee flies because its wings are so small and the bumblebee is heavy and big. Sometimes that can look like Victory, where Victory is like, wow, there's a lot of things. How does this thing fly?

[Arvin]

Right, Right.

[John]

Truthfully, it is by the grace of God. It's also something that is driven by our pastoral leadership, Pastor Paul and Pastor Ashley. But we, in the past, we would offer things. Like, we would do productions, we would do things, but it was like, they weren't always excellent. Like, you know, we would offer things that, man, did we really put our best foot forward. And this isn't always. This was Just for a season in time. Where as I was looking at it, I was like, man, why do we even offer this if it's not going to be the best version of this? And, like, do you guys know what I'm talking about? Like, maybe you are. If you are at a ministry or if you are, you know, you own a business, you know, have you ever looked and been like, why do we offer this if we can't make it the best? And I. When I mean best, I don't mean, like, financially or resources. I mean, like, the best that you can do at that thing. Do everything as you do unto the Lord. Unto the Lord. Right. So I think that that was my tinge of frustration. And Pastor Paul has been in this sermon series called Jacob. I'm going this roundabout, but there's a point. Pastor Paul has been in the sermon series about Jacob, and a few weeks ago, he preached on finding your purpose. Right. And one of the reasons how you find your purpose is you find what makes you upset, what makes you frustrated. What has really ticked me off was, dang, we do these productions, but we don't do them to the best that they could be.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

You know.

[Arvin]

Right.

[John]

I mean, that is no bash on what they were.

[Arvin]

Sure.

[John]

Because what they were was reaching people.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

But whenever we. We stepped into it, it was like, okay, we need to really ask hard questions. And that. And those questions will be like, could be offensive. It could hurt people's feelings. But it's like, okay, why are we doing this? Is this to reach the lost? Because if it is, the lost are not coming. What are we doing? Are we doing this to pat ourselves on the back of saying that we did a Christmas production? Are we doing this to, you know, scratch or itch someone's ego that wants to be on stage with a microphone? Are we doing this? Because we've always done this, asking all of those questions. It doesn't mean that it's bad. It just reinforces of why you are doing the thing.

[Arvin]

Yes, exactly.

[John]

And so when we ask those questions, you know, Pastor Paul at the time was like, hey, you know, like, let's revisit these productions. Let's restructure them. And here we are many years later at the Great Forever, and it's just years and years and years of deciding to ask those questions. And this is a new script.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

The Great Forever is a new script, new music.

[Arvin]

Totally.

[John]

And it was asking the questions of, like, okay, looking at the scripture, what can we do? Like, are we doing what is now 20, 26 what God is speaking now.

[Arvin]

Right.

[John]

Well, that only comes from Arvin praying, listening to the Holy Spirit, us. Re looking at the Easter story and being like, okay, God, it's not. It's not this. It's not this question. We go, okay, what's this cool spin that we can do?

[Arvin]

Sure, yeah.

[John]

You know, I really believe that it comes from the spirit of God. And then we got to get it passed right through our leadership.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

So there's. There's some hoops. But anyways, as I'm looking back towards it, I'm. I'm really excited about this production, but I think that it all started out of a tinge of frustration.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

And maybe those of you who are listening today, you know, you have experienced that, that emotion, and that is what has pushed you to get involved in, you know, political justice, or it's pushed you to get involved in. Well, if you're a grandparent, you go, well, I'm going to raise. I'm going to raise my grandkids. If the parents are not doing a good job or, you know, just certain things that make that push you to action. It is like there's a reason why God put that inside of you.

[Arvin]

That's right.

[John]

And it is that tinge of frustration. And it's almost like, for me, I call it a righteous anger.

[Arvin]

Sure.

[John]

But it's also like, it's a conviction.

[Arvin]

Yeah, yeah. The part of that equation that we. It's subconscious. We don't even talk about it is prior to the frustration. You can't really be frustrated unless you innately have this vision of what it could be.

[John]

Yes.

[Arvin]

You see it and you go, it could be this, it could be better, it could be whatever. If you have that vision, then, yeah. The gap between what it is and what you see is the frustration amount. And then you have to digest that properly and go, what do I do about this? That's gonna make it get. You're not gonna go from what it is to what you see overnight. You don't do it in one show, but incrementally, there are steps along the way. There are different productions I can point out in the last seven, eight years and say, on this one, we learned this. On this one, we learned that. On this one, we learned that. And then every incremental show moves moving forward has all of those tools together. So every single time we make a new one, it's like, now we're bringing all of it back together.

[John]

And it's not always pleasant.

[Arvin]

It's never pleasant. Like, it's Pleasant to have done it. It's pleasant to like my favorite times. We had this moment recently where you, Spencer Klick, our cinematographer, editor, media director, Ryan Stafford, our director, Dom DeMaio, our music director, myself. The five of us are in here figuring out how to do things. Every single time we do that, there's a moment where someone else is talking about some detail and I look back and I go, like, for the rest of my life, when I remember my time here, that will be the juiciest, most delightful memory. Is like the five of us figuring something out. And it happens in this room. In the throws of planning the live show. It'll happen on set when we're in Oregon and a sneaker wave just knocked us out and broke one of our mics. And stuff like that happened on the Great Forever. And it's like every single time. Or like, you know, driving through the desert from California to Vegas to film keymaker and to find places to. It's like, these are the. These are the best days, you know? And when you're talking about the unpleasant part, those are the behind the scenes of it.

[John]

Yeah.

[Arvin]

Of like, you know, everyone. If everyone's involved and everyone has a vision of how it could be the best, then everyone's gonna have frustrations.

[John]

Right?

[Arvin]

So that's where character comes in and you decide, this is how I'm gonna digest my frustration. And you taught me this early on. You said, it's not the person I'm dealing with to solve. The problem is not the problem. The problem is the problem. So it's like in each show, I at least can speak for myself and say, I've learned. No one here is against me. No one here is trying to quench what my vision is for what this show could be. Holistically, it is the combination of all of our visions that will become what it is God has in mind for this show to be. And it's always at victory. It's always unique. Someone asked the other day, like, why don't you just do a literal story about Jesus? Don't add anything to any of it.

[John]

If any of you guys listening or watching, if any of you guys have asked or asked that or wondered that,

[Arvin]

we're getting ready to talk about it. And my answer to them was, you can get that anywhere. You can go to any store and you can get that. You can go to any show. Any. Like, you can watch the Passion of the Christ. You can do any. And that's fine. You can watch the chosen wonderful show. So I've been Told I don't watch it for specific reasons because I just don't want to blend my brain about Easter. And, you know, I don't want to accidentally be like. Accidentally be like. And then what if this happened? They're like, oh, like the chosen. I don't want to copy anybody. And so what you get at Victory with every Christmas show, with every Easter show, is an absolutely unique iteration of that story that has modern influences as well as the timeless story of Jesus's ministry. Life, death, burial, resurrection. And in the Great Forever in particular, there are elements of eternity that we had been talking about for years. It was like, how do you get eternity? How do you look at Easter? How do you look at the cross as the centerpiece of all time in both directions? And so how do you insert eternity? And so without revealing any spoilers, I can say I think we found a way to do that, because now we're looking at the life of a character who is in Scripture and adding moments into the gaps that enable us to uphold the truth of the New Testament in the context of that person's life. That's something that consistently happens. There's gaps in the Gospels intentionally. And so when we have a story, a character that we don't know what happened to him here, here, or her, then we take what is true in the New. What's happening outside of the Gospels in the Old Testament, the New Testament. Let's affirm those truths in the life situation here. So, like, in this show, there's Atticus, and his marriage is involved, his relationship and his job is involved. And so it's like the. The themes and elements there are all the sociology, anthropology, that is not necessarily written word for word literally in the Gospels. And so you're gonna. You're only gonna get that at Victory. You're not gonna get that anywhere else.

[John]

Right.

[Arvin]

Other places do shows, and I think they're all great. I actually wish. I wish every church had some iteration of telling this story creatively in a production. I think the more the better. Yes.

[John]

Yeah. And, you know, I going off of what he said is, it comes back to us like, we are stewards of what God has called us to do in this season.

[Arvin]

Right.

[John]

Everything comes back down to stewardship.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

So, okay, those of you guys who are listening and watching, okay, A steward does not manage. A steward multiplies. So if someone gives you a kid, like, if you've been praying to get pregnant, and then God, you know, gets in that, you're like, oh, my gosh. Yeah, I'm not talking about immaculate conception. I'm talking about, you know, your spouse, fertility. Get this child.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

If you been praying for it and then all of a sudden this child is birthed, you go, whoo, man, that's awesome. And then you chill for 18 years and you just go, whatever happens, happens. No, you want to make sure that it walks, it crawls, it swims, it learns how to ride a bike. It learns how to chew without choking. It learns how to read, write. I say it. The child, the girl or the boy, learns how to do gymnastics or wrestle or play basketball or badminton, sing, dance. You start putting all of your finances in it. And then here's the thing is then if you're at a practice and a coach gets onto your kid but is demeaning, you then become a bear and you then stand up for your kid and you have all of this investment. That is what productions are for us.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

Like I'm going to get in an argument with someone and I'm going to become a bear when someone demeans it.

[Arvin]

Right, right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, sure. Absolutely.

[John]

I'm wanting. If God said if. I have been praying to God, God, I just want my purpose, Lord. I just want my purpose. I. Okay, show me what my purpose is. I remember praying that a million times and not knowing in college. Yeah. You know, and so you just figured out I was working at. I was doing a car. I was working at a car wash. Oh, my gosh. Okay, side story, guys. We will come right back. This is a commercial break, but it's not a real commercial. It's just a story. I worked at this car wash on 101st Memorial, Tulsa, Oklahoma. It used to be called Sunshine Car Wash. Now it's called Rocket Dog or something that, like, you.

[Arvin]

It's launch. I have a subscription there. I go there.

[John]

Okay. Yeah. No, it's. It's like basically Pizza Planet. It just looks goofy. It looks like a spaceship now. But it used to be Sunshine Car Wash. My boss was awesome, really great, very strict, and he was like, john, you're going to be at this car wash and you're going to clean out the bays. Now, in each bay, there is these grates each. And you have to, like, take the scooper and you're scooping up all of this crap out of these.

[Arvin]

Oh, wow.

[John]

Yeah. And you had to clean it out, and then you had to make sure that all the soap and stuff was filled for the individual. And then the main wash, you would sit there and wipe people's windshield before they went into the main car wash, if people were vacuuming, you had to clean out the vacuum bays, all that type of stuff. So that was your job. And I remember working it and doing it, and so many. I did that. And then I worked cross campus, which was like, facilities at oru, but during that time, I would just be cleaning gunk out of it. And I was like, okay, yeah, God, am I going to own this car wash one day? In my mind, I was like, I'm trying. I have to make money because I want to propose and I want to have a wife and kids. Why need money in order to have money? Like, I mean, I kind of like talking to people. And this is kind of a fun hangout spot. Like, am I. Am I going to get in good with my boss? And it's gonna be like, you know, like Laban and Jacob thing.

[Arvin]

Seven years.

[John]

Seven years. And then he's like, you inherit the car wash, the other car wash, and a bad part of town. Stupid Bible joke. Stupid buyers.

[Arvin]

Get them both anyway.

[John]

But I remember, like, guys, we were open in January and February. Who is getting their car washed in January and February? But he was like, john, you need to be out there and greet the people.

[Arvin]

Yeah, yeah.

[John]

And I just remember being out there and it being so cold, and me bundled up sitting on a lawn chair, and I was playing Christmas music for people as they dry up. And I drive up and I would have a Santa hat on. Very nice. You know, it totally drove up sales. And I. Someone came in the car wash and they were like. And they're like, yeah, we were driving through. It was snowing, so it was really muddy. And the salt from, you know, like, so that things would. And they're like. We came in to wash our car, and I was like, okay. And then we just start talking, and this person is washing their car, and then it's like, dude, what are you doing with your life? This guy.

[Arvin]

Wow.

[John]

And he was like, what do you want to do with your life? And I was like, I'm in college and I'm doing this to make money. And he was just like, well, have you prayed to God? And you've asked him? Because this guy was a believer. And I was like, well, a thousand times. And he goes, what if he gives you something that's going to utterly destroy your life? And he goes, would you. Would you say yes? And I go, what do you mean? And he was like, well, Jesus answered the call. And what he answered was something that was going to destroy his life, but bring life to many. He's like, would you accept something that would be so consuming that it could. It could possibly destroy things?

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

And I was like, hopefully God wouldn't do that. And I was like, doesn't it say that his yoke is easy and his burden is light? And he's like, of course. And he's like, but, you know, like, how bad do you want? And so anyway. But it just made me think.

[Arvin]

Sure.

[John]

And so anyways, so I. And for. That's such a random story, but I think about that story every once in a while.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

Whenever I'm, like, tired and my eyes are red and I don't have eye drops and I don't have, like, coffee or an energy drink. And it's at the end of the day, and I'm like, oh, gosh, I'm getting ready to go into, you know, this other thing for production after doing this whole day of work. And I think about that conversation and I'm like, oh, my goodness. I prayed for days like this. It's like, you know, some of you listening or watching, and you guys have heard this in other sermons. I'm just retweeting it, basically verbally. But it's like someone who says, oh, I've been praying for a husband. Will you finally get the husband? And you guys are getting in fights and stuff, and you're like, well, I want a divorce. And it's like, well, you prayed for this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, work on it.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

You know.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

And. Or, you know, it's like me, John, I have prayed for being in things like this. But then, you know, it's like what you said, the unpleasant things of doing these productions or. And these are amazing, and I really love doing it. But also working with human beings, of course, and being set up and let down, and me also letting people down, like me as John, I have let people down because they had a certain expectation of me. But what it is, is all of it comes down to. Again, now we're going to jump way back to what I was talking about. It comes back down to I have to feel something about what I'm doing. Like, it's stewardship. Like, I have to continue to go back. And it's like, we're not just doing these productions to do them. So. God, what are you saying now? Yeah, you know, and if you're not saying anything, then I need to go on a fast or something to, like, figure it out. Because.

[Arvin]

Right.

[John]

If we're going to do these, like, let's put everything into it.

[Arvin]

That's right.

[John]

That's the way we feel. And those of you who are listening or watching, I feel like you guys also know what I'm talking about, because I feel like you guys felt that about something. It may not be a production. It may be parenting. It may be your business, it may be within your ministry and, you know, within the middle of you doing those things, stewarding, continuing to really throw yourself all into it.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

But also, if it becomes too much and where you're like, well, I'm just burned out. Well, that is where that scripture comes in. My yoke is easy.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

And my burden is light, which is what, you know, we've hit on in the past week. Yeah, yeah. We talked about last week.

[Arvin]

I think it comes down to sincerity. If you're no longer capable of being sincere in your work, then it's. It's probably a break is long overdue. Where if every time we look at the script, every time we look at the story, there is this sincere curiosity for what is it about this particular story that you. Easter story, the Christmas story that needs to be highlighted? Because when we're talk, we're. We're getting so much better and better about talking about the story. Like, as we sit here today and tonight, this show goes up, we have already outlined 2027 Easter, and we know

[John]

that's a sneak peek for you guys. That's a little behind the scenes.

[Arvin]

Exactly. And so because we keep having these conversations early and earlier, it's because the muscle we've been building every single show is prayerfully being like God only you know what will be going on in the world in the spring of 2027.

[John]

Right.

[Arvin]

We've done that for this show. We've done it for every show we've been a part of. But it's getting earlier and earlier where we're like, you know, who will be in the room? Who will watch online.

[John]

Yeah.

[Arvin]

You know, who will watch five years later on YouTube or one of these other places that we put the productions. You know exactly who's going to see this and you know what it needs to carry for them. Who's going to be newly divorced when they're in the room that night? Who's going to be just having found out about a miscarriage, who's going to have just had the best moment of their life and they don't know why it feels weird, all of those things. And so every single.

[John]

Believing for miracles.

[Arvin]

Exactly. You combine all of that. And it's not like that honestly doesn't create pressure, it just creates sincerity. Yeah, Like, I think sincerity is the antidote to pressure. It's like I'm.

[John]

Sincerity is the antidote to pressure.

[Arvin]

Yeah. Because pressure is such a self focused idea. It is like, well, I need to. So many people are coming to this show or like tonight or today. I drove in and I saw the Great Forever on the sign outside and I was like, wow, that's amazing that, you know, this was just a title conversation we had. And now it's there. Beautiful fonts, whatever. And if you're focused on the pressure you feel to make it good, it's all about, yes. Are they gonna like what I made? Well, sincerity is the other way around. It's like, how can this serve the person who will see this? What will this mean? So that's where. That's how the story stays fresh. Because it's like, okay, so you're a person who doesn't know who Jesus is and you come sit in here. The first video that comes up after Pastor Paul introduces the thing, does that have a bunch of Christianese that doesn't make any sense to you?

[John]

Yeah.

[Arvin]

Or is it presenting a very human question that any person from any religious background or lack thereof, can understand and be invited into this story? That's all this is. The substance being delivered to the audience is always the same. Nutrition. What changes is the shape of the platter that we are bringing it in. Because people's souls have different shapes as well. And so we're constantly just playing emotional and spiritual Tetris. And thankfully the power of it comes from the substance of the meal itself. The scripture itself has the power, we don't add it.

[John]

The scripture has the power, we don't add it. Yeah.

[Arvin]

But thankfully we get to participate with God and use his gifts in our life to shape the angle of it. So that's why it'll never just be a blanket. Because when you. The reason people say that is because they like the. The reason someone would say, just do the story as it's in scripture. Don't bring any modern influences. Don't make the music like, fresh and new and cool. It's because they are, unfortunately, they are numbed by certainty and they like that feeling. Whereas if you're a person who really doesn't know, I mean, that's the luxury of the person who's been a Christian for too long but not matured. Because the person who doesn't know the Lord who is in this room or who thinks they do and doesn't really who is in this room, they need to see real Life happening so that it can actually apply to their real life outside of this room.

[John]

Yeah, no, that's really good. I think that's smart. That's. And what you said. You said sincerity is the antidote to pressure. So those of you who are listening and watching, have you ever felt pressure and something like, you know, maybe you've released a worship song, or maybe you have. You're writing a book, or maybe you're doing, and you feel this pressure? What Arvin said is very necessary for anyone who creates pressure is. It's. It's on me. It's on me.

[Arvin]

I have to show myself.

[John]

I have to show myself. I have to, you know, we got to look brilliant. We got to look smart. We got to look like we are. Like, we're not old farts writing a script, you know?

[Arvin]

Right.

[John]

For that is the. That. So the focus is sincerity, and that's the antidote. Man, that's really good.

[Arvin]

Yeah, I agree.

[John]

That's really good. Yeah, because, you know. You know, there. There's been people, you know, they'll go, man, how did you guys, like, is it not nervous trying to figure out another. Like, another production? And in my mind, it's never really crossed our mind, which means I'm like, oh, praise God. Yeah, it's God doing it.

[Arvin]

That's right.

[John]

It's not like our intellect. I am very limited. Arvin reads more than me, but you know what I mean?

[Arvin]

That can be limiting, though. Being a reader can limit you more.

[John]

But what I'm saying is, it's like, we are very limited in that. So the fact that I don't feel that, I'm like, okay, God, you're still working. And as soon as I stop not to think. Not that my stuff is based on feeling, but as soon as it. As soon as it stops, it's like, okay, the grace is lifted and God is, you know, choosing to do something else in a different way. But that's why I feel. I'm like, dude, God trusts us to do this. Let's throw our whole rear into it.

[Arvin]

Yeah, absolutely.

[John]

Throw everything at it.

[Arvin]

Absolutely.

[John]

Like, anyways. And I think that that type of a thing, it can cause like a. Almost like a psycho energy. Like. And, you know, I don't want to be like the theater teacher off of High School Musical. He's like, big old glasses.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

Not that those are bad. We love big glasses.

[Arvin]

But.

[John]

But it is. I like me as an individual. I can become, like, hyper focused on certain things because I'm like, I just want it to be the best that it can be. And it's really like, I'm like. And it's not for John. It is like, dude, God is trusting us to do this. Like, let's throw everything at it. And I think that that sincerity has been at least this year and the years in the past. God has trusted.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

And I'm very grateful for that. And so anyways, but that, that's, that's what I think. And forever, for those of you who are listening and watching, if God has placed something on your heart, if it is, if it is, you know, maybe fueling from frustration, that's a good sign.

[Arvin]

Sure.

[John]

You know, the wrong thing to do is to talk smack about people who are over you if you feel that frustration and you're like, yeah, oh, whoa. If only I was in charge, you know, and I have seen this over the years. This is not about a specific individual.

[Arvin]

Sure.

[John]

But I have also worked in our school. Our school has K12. And there's been some head coaches that were at one point assistant coaches. And they have done a great job honoring the head coach. And then I've been a part because I've been here. I haven't been a part of other schools, but then I've been a part of some teams where the assistant coach has been like, well, you know, if I was in charge, it would be done like X, Y and Z.

[Arvin]

Sure.

[John]

And I want people to feel like they're open to talk to me. Like they can voice their frustrations. And I always say, hey, man, I understand that. Have you spoke with the. The head person?

[Arvin]

Right, right, right.

[John]

No, they just won't listen to me. Okay, well, ask God what you want him, what you're supposed to do with this.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

Because either like, you don't need to be here because you don't want to talk about person, because it's only a matter of time before you're the head person.

[Arvin]

Sure.

[John]

And your assistants are going to talk smack about you.

[Arvin]

Right.

[John]

If you're doing it here.

[Arvin]

Right. Yeah.

[John]

You know, same with pastors.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

If the assistant pastor, the worship leader, the creative person, the graphic design person is kind of like arms crossed me about, about the lead pastor. Okay, first off, you don't know everything that it entails to be a lead pastor. Secondly, there will be a day when you are in leadership and you will experience everything that you sowed towards the person that's in leadership over you. It is 1000% going to happen.

[Arvin]

Right.

[John]

So I'm letting you know now.

[Arvin]

Right, Right.

[John]

Just be careful what you say, now I understand venting. I do.

[Arvin]

Sure.

[John]

And that's important.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

You always vent to someone. That is. You never vent down.

[Arvin]

Right. Yeah. That's not venting.

[John]

Venting down means someone that's underneath you.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

Right.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

So this is a, this is an example a dad leaning over to his kid and being like your mom, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[Arvin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[John]

Like that's a case in point. Well, now apply that to a school, a team, an assistant coach leaning over to a player, being like the head coach always, blah, blah, blah, toxic. It's going to end bad.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

You're also going to reap the benefits and the harvest of those words.

[Arvin]

Right.

[John]

Then you apply that to a church. You have, you know, an assistant pastor or a youth or worship or something, being like the head pastor, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you're talking smack to someone down to a youth student or someone on the worship team. It's going to come back on you.

[Arvin]

Yeah, yeah. It's the nature of what you're releasing is that it falls back on itself.

[John]

It will always. There's never been a time it hasn't. Maybe not yet. It gonna happen. So that's why it's important to be like, okay, so who do I vent to? Cause you're allowed to disagree. You're allowed to have frustrations. You vent to God. You vent to a counselor. You vent to someone who is a safe place. Someone that is. Because here's the goal, and this was something that Arvind said, is that the person is not the problem. The problem is the problem.

[Arvin]

Yeah, that's right.

[John]

Right. If there's a frustration. So it's good because you're like, man, I have this purpose, I have this vision to be a pastor and I'm serving, but I'm having these. Or I'm having this, this vision to be, you know, a teacher. But I'm a ta. I'm a teacher's assistant. And you know, the way that they do things, I would not do things that way. So what do I do with this frustration? Well, that's good because now you are. God is having you shaped and form on what how he's going to use you to impact the world. But in the meantime, as you honor. That's where Arvin was talking about with character, as you honor the person who's in leadership over you. That honor will also come back on you later whenever you are in leadership.

[Arvin]

Correct? Yeah. Yeah, I agree. So it's either really good news that what you say in private about Your leadership will come back on you. Or it's really bad news, depending on what you've said.

[John]

Right?

[Arvin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Absolutely.

[John]

Exactly. And I think that all of that. Sorry, you, you guys are like, how did we even get here? I think it came from whenever we were talking about, you know, frustrations of why are we not where we want to be?

[Arvin]

Sure.

[John]

And it's very easy for me to blame, you know, leadership or blame my brother, Pastor Paul, my sister in law, Pastor Ashley. It's very. That would be so easy for me to do. It would not last well, and it wouldn't end well for me. Yeah. So anyways, what's the opposite of that? It's being like, hey, we honor them and this is what God has given us. Let's be great stewards of what God has given us. And if we are stewards, if you're a true steward, God rewards you with more.

[Arvin]

Yeah, absolutely.

[John]

That's, that's the biblical principle. That's why I'm like, I'm glad I'm a believer because I'm able to live by principles and, you know, one plus one equals two.

[Arvin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[John]

You know, if I didn't believe in God, I didn't believe in the Bible, I'm like, how would you even dictate life without going nuts?

[Arvin]

Absolutely. Yeah. The advantage a person of faith has is that the same God, they have the understanding of the same God who established the laws of physics, he established the structure of leadership, authority and honor. And no matter how much you try to like, invent a way around it, it will never work.

[John]

Yes.

[Arvin]

And whenever there's been critiques in the past, not of just a victory, but like, like in general, all leadership structures where it's like, well, if I just submit and honor the leader above me, then I'm just letting them walk all over me and do whatever. That is not the case. True. Outside of criminal activity, of course, whatever. But what I'm saying is what matters here is when you honor the person above you, you are putting yourself in the category of okay, God, this is now up to you. And so whatever.

[John]

You're letting God do the heavy lifting.

[Arvin]

Yes, exactly. And so, and so it's like, if I'm supposed to be moved from this or if I'm supposed to do this, that, like, I can confidently say that every opportunity that God has brought into my life was the consequence of private, consistent honor, submission and respect. It did not come from. Impressive resume. Or let me show you when what I can do, because the reality is the market is oversaturated with people with talent, unfortunately. So the distinguishing element is gonna be character and integrity. And so when I sit with our leadership, I get to sit there with light shoulders being like, if we were to read out loud everything I've ever said about you, I'd be happy.

[John]

Wow. I'd have no problem. Not everyone can say that.

[Arvin]

No. And not that I'm perfect. But what I'm saying is, like, if that's not how you're operating, begin to operate that way.

[John]

Yeah. And all. Yeah. We're not bashing on you. If you go, oh, I be talking smack. Great. Today's a great day to stop.

[Arvin]

Yeah. There's a reason the Psalms are what they are like. David is constantly venting to the Lord, sharing how he feels.

[John]

Yeah. And he's very honest. I think it's great to be brutally honest with God about how you feel and everything. And sometimes me while I'm driving. God, guys, I live 30 minutes away from here, and it is. I get. I get the drive, and I will, you know, put my phone face down, put it on, do not disturb. And then I'll just begin to be like, I. I will vent. I be venting good. With my ac Vent on. Because I have to. I have to get it out.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

And sometimes what I've realized is that that's almost therapeutic. Alone in my car. I just don't want to send, like, a voice memo to someone. I record the whole thing and send it to the person. Dang.

[Arvin]

That's funny. That's funny. But, yeah, a very helpful question I've been asking myself recently is when I have a thought, whether it's about myself, a person, or anything, I just wonder, is this really true, or is that merely convenient? Because a very.

[John]

So give me an example.

[Arvin]

So let's just take the productions. We're in the throes of making a show, and Spencer and I are planning something about where we're gonna go to shoot something specific. And the plan I come up with, there's some holes in it. And Spencer points out those holes. And then the thought that occurs to me is, he is. He thinks he's smarter than me, and he thinks that I'm not good at my job, those are the thoughts that would be set my way. And if I can pause there and go, is it really. Are you gonna investigate? Like, is that really true? You really think he thinks that? Or is it convenient for that to be true? Because then it justifies the fact that you just want to really have control of everything and be in charge. And so if I go away and I have that question for myself, then when I investigate if it's true or not, nine times out of ten, the thing that you assigned malicious intent and hostility to is actually just another person pointing out something that if you had been aware of, you would have done as well.

[John]

Yeah.

[Arvin]

And so that's a small example. And Spencer and I constantly get to do things like that while we're filming and traveling and doing all this stuff. But it's very, very helpful in marital issues and workplace issues and even in personal reflection. Is this true or is it merely convenient?

[John]

Is it true or is it merely convenient?

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

Wow, that's a good question. Is it convenient for me to feel this way because I want to feel this way, like I'm just looking to be upset?

[Arvin]

Yeah. People have a tendency to assume that what is convenient is true because it is the laziest way to think because you don't have to do any heavy lifting after that. Mentally, you go, man, that would be really convenient if that were true. And oddly enough, like, I don't have a percentage of the time, but more often than not, in my case, it is the negative thought that I think is more convenient because it gives me a reason to feel like a victim. It gives me an excuse to not be sincere any longer. It gives me an excuse to not care, which means I don't have to exert energy as much. I can kind of afford to coast. And the unfortunate, most unfortunate thing about that is if you're on the highway to your God given meaning, purpose, destiny, the thing he's assigned you to in your life, that's a really easy exit rate.

[John]

Yeah.

[Arvin]

Where it's like, oh, I don't remember the last time I cared enough to be really intimately involved with the conversation about this, this, this, this, this. I kind of checked out and it was convenient to blame these other people. That happens in workplaces all the time, not just at churches, but in general. It probably happens in families. It probably happens in church leadership and marriages where it's like, well, I didn't get the emotional response or the emotional sustenance that I wanted from this relationship, so I'm no longer interested. Whereas a healthier person would say, my emotional needs are my responsibility and God and I already have a structure for how I go about. You know, like, look at this might be controversial. I don't think he should be, though. New interview comes out about Harvey Weinstein from Rikers Island. Harvey Weinstein was a film producer. The MeToo movement happened as women called him out for the terrible things he did.

[John]

Absolutely.

[Arvin]

And I'm not here to defend him. That's not what I'm about. That's not what's controversial. But the thing that occurred to me in reading that interview was though, if you zoom out from just, oh, this guy's terrible, this guy's bad. And you use him as an example like prison. Prior to Miramax, the film studio that he started with his brother, the only movies that really got any attention were the big studio films. This whole new movement of like indie films being mainstream started there. And if you think about the film directors that he platformed. So it's like you have this individual who's living in a secular environment, but really, really good artistic things are being made because. Because he had the audacity to go after it. That was his God given intention and purpose. And yet he had these childhood unmet emotional needs, which he even says in his own interview with the Hollywood Reporter, he said, I had some problems as a child that I didn't deal with. And so what happens, you become gifted with this opportunity to platform people like Quentin Tarantino and all these wonderful auteurs. You get to take really, really good films and make them part of the. The zeitgeist of people who are growing up in the 90s and early 2000s. So what the devil does is go, okay, you're gonna now use the thing God gave you to steward. You're gonna use it to meet your unmet childhood emotional needs. Which was for him, he wanted affirmation from women. So all of a sudden he takes it to a criminal level of doing all these terrible things. And I'm not saying everyone's Harvey Weinstein, but I am saying.

[John]

But that's an example of Everyone has the potential to. Everyone has the potential. Potential, yeah.

[Arvin]

So it's like, what is my God given assignment? There are these wonderful things that God's assigned me to do. It could include raising kids. It could be building a company, it could be leading a church. It could be volunteering. It could be whatever. Whatever that purpose is. The enemy is going to try to suggest to you that you need to become powerful in that position so that you can leverage your power so that you can satisfy the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and the pride of life. When you do that, it ruins it. It goes away. You lose all of it.

[John]

Eventually.

[Arvin]

Those are the laws of spiritual reality. And if you don't want to respect those things, then you end up in Rikers Island.

[John]

Yeah.

[Arvin]

Or a prison of your own making.

[John]

You know, a prison of your own making is also very true. And I think that as we come to a close, basically, I know that you go, wow, we covered a lot today. We did. But that is.

[Arvin]

That's what bts.

[John]

That's what BTS is.

[Arvin]

That's right.

[John]

Yeah. You know, it is the. You know, it is April 1st, the opening night of the production, if you. If you listen to it today. And we are very excited about the story, but we wanted to give you the background of, like, the structure and the guts behind it. It all came from. Okay. This dream and vision prayed for. Okay. Now what do we do with the frustrations? And then all throughout that process. Okay. How to honor. How to honor leadership in the midst of. While you're trying to do this thing. And. And then how not to sink your own ship and end up on Rikers Island. Once you are gifted and you become a master in something or you become something. How to not leverage that power to use in a bad way to meet some unmet needs as a child, which we all have. I'm not here to do this whole trauma talk, you know, Brene Brown, but I do believe that all of us have that and all of us are working through those things. And it's very important to know that. In which I know in 2026, we all do, but all of that to say that there is a version of our lives that we have not met yet. And I've said this on many podcasts, there's a version of us that we

[Arvin]

have not yet met.

[John]

And, you know, God is there. God is involved. God has your future. Everything your hand touches prospers. He has that version ready for all of us. And the wonderful thing is, if you believe in God, if you are a Christian and you believe is that we are in a continual evolution towards that.

[Arvin]

Yes.

[John]

And in the meantime, it's like, okay, we honor and we whatever God gives us, we throw everything at it. And if there is a frustration that we have based on this thing that we're involved in. Okay, let's be stewards of what we. Of what's been given to us.

[Arvin]

Yes.

[John]

Because more will come.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

And if we are feeling a pool towards those unmet needs of trying to satisfy the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, the pride of life, we're filling that pool.

[Arvin]

Right.

[John]

First, we recognize it. Secondly, we go and we get help.

[Arvin]

Yes.

[John]

We go get help from someone that we trust, that we know is a lockbox.

[Arvin]

Right.

[John]

You know, that's why counselors or psychiatrists, therapists, spirit filled counselors are, you know, and if you're looking for some, they are online.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

You know, if you don't have one at your church or at your ministry, they are available.

[Arvin]

Yeah.

[John]

You know, and it's not just so you can like, you know, sun is warm, grass is green. I feel therapy ized. That's not it. It's so that you don't end up on Rikers Island.

[Arvin]

So you can stay sincere.

[John]

So you can stay sincere.

[Arvin]

That's right.

[John]

And not have all the pressure.

[Arvin]

That's right.

[John]

Did you guys like today? I did.

[Arvin]

I loved it.

[John]

I loved it. Yeah. Thank you guys for listening and watching. Please watch the great forever invite people to join online and we love you guys. We'll see you next week.

[Arvin]

Bye, guys. Bye.