← Victory Church: Paul Daugherty
Loading summary
Transcript341 lines
- [00:00]
A
Hello.
- [00:01]
B
Hi, there. Welcome back.
- [00:02]
A
My name is John Arvin, and this is behind the Scenes of Our best days season 11.
- [00:08]
B
Cheers to you.
- [00:09]
A
Cheers.
- [00:09]
B
11 seasons.
- [00:10]
A
Yes. 11 seasons. We're very grateful. We're grateful for our pastors, Pastor Paul and Pastor Ashley. It was their vision for last week to happen, which was the Easter production.
- [00:22]
B
That's right. The Great Forever.
- [00:24]
A
The Great Forever. You know, and you may say, well, what is this podcast about? This podcast is all about the behind the scenes of victory. As you guys know, if you've ever been to a service or watched online on YouTube, we say a victory confession. And within that victory confession, we say our best days are right in front of us. And this is the behind the scenes
- [00:43]
B
of those best days.
- [00:44]
A
Of those best days. So. All right, let's get right into it. So Easter 2026, the great forever just happened. Four original songs. The first song being Change My Forever. Change My Forever. Let me tell you that the second song, what this is what it means. What it.
- [01:03]
B
What does it mean to be great. Yeah.
- [01:05]
A
The third song, Love that Never Dies. The fourth song, eyes of Fire.
- [01:13]
B
Very cool.
- [01:14]
A
Very cool. And then obviously, we did My Redeemer Lives through the Via Dolorosa. If any of you guys do not know what the Via Dolorosa is, it's actually. It's. And it is translated into the way of suffering in which Jesus walked.
- [01:30]
B
Yeah. The path to the Cross.
- [01:31]
A
The path to the Cross. And we did My Redeemer Lives, which I really am glad that we decided on that song. Virginia crushed it.
- [01:38]
B
She killed it.
- [01:39]
A
Then out of that, Pastor Sharon, mi madre, she sings a song called above all.
- [01:46]
B
Yeah.
- [01:46]
A
So throwback Christian Sick. Classic Michael.
- [01:48]
B
Love you, Smith.
- [01:49]
A
Michael W. Smith. But it's still powerful.
- [01:51]
B
Very.
- [01:52]
A
And then in the finale, we did a victory worship original. And Dom DeMaio wrote that song.
- [01:58]
B
Yeah. Great song. Joy.
- [01:59]
A
Joy.
- [02:00]
B
Yeah.
- [02:00]
A
And it is such a. And usually whenever you are. Whenever we're writing an Easter production, all of this is for that moment. The resurrection moment.
- [02:10]
B
Yeah.
- [02:10]
A
And so figuring out, okay, what is the best song, the song needs to have the gospel in it, which means some songs that we've done in the past for the finale is. I Believe. No. Is it Anastasis? Like, oh, it's the I Believe in
- [02:31]
B
God Our Father Doxology.
- [02:33]
A
Yeah. Something like that.
- [02:34]
B
Something like that, yeah.
- [02:36]
A
Anyways, it's a hill song we've done.
- [02:38]
B
I think it's called King of Kings.
- [02:40]
A
King of Kings, the Father, Praise the One. Because in it. In the songs, what we are wanting to do Is verbally through the lyrics, take people off. Okay. His ministry.
- [02:53]
B
Right.
- [02:53]
A
The cross. And then dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, Boom. Resurrection.
- [02:59]
B
That's right.
- [02:59]
A
And so the song has to have all of that in the lyrics, but also musically has to build to that crescendo moment. And so it actually is something that we pray about, we think about. There's been times where we've had a song and then Pastor Paul will watch a run through, and then it'll be like, we need to change the song because it's just not powerful enough.
- [03:20]
B
Sure, sure, sure.
- [03:20]
A
Yeah.
- [03:21]
B
You know what I mean?
- [03:23]
A
So anyways, that's kind of the science behind the song today. I just wanted us to dive in on the behind the scenes of the story of the great forever. The past 10 years, when we started writing these productions, God really spoke to us. And it was like, hey, do seven scripts. Seven for Easter, seven for Christmas. Yeah, that was. I. It was just something that I felt very strongly in my heart. I don't want to say God verbally said it, but it was something that was so clear to me. That was the mission that I was marching forward on. Well, then we repeated some of those for a few years, and we would shift and change the script, update it.
- [04:03]
B
Yeah.
- [04:03]
A
But me and Arvin were, you know, both of us in prayer. And this past year, in 2025, and in the. Actually in the spring, like last spring, like last Easter, my grandma grand. Grand passed away.
- [04:23]
B
Yeah.
- [04:24]
A
She was someone who was fully committed to building the kingdom of God. Another man who. Who passed away, Wayne Cates, he was over our groundskeeping. Both of those people, they lived with this eternity in mind.
- [04:39]
B
That's right.
- [04:39]
A
Every question. You know, my grandma, she was. For a long time, she was over the accounting at Victory. So people would turn in their receipts and she would ask, okay, now why did we spend this here?
- [04:52]
B
Yeah.
- [04:53]
A
Like, why did we go out to eat?
- [04:54]
B
Da da, da.
- [04:55]
A
And she was nickel and diming Victory. In order to keep us sharp on budget. And her one question, she would go this building the kingdom of God.
- [05:03]
B
Right?
- [05:04]
A
And then people have to be like,
- [05:05]
B
it's a pack of gum. Yeah, it's a pack of gum.
- [05:08]
A
Greg Grant. And so anyways, but everything was through that lens and even on Intense. And then Wayne Cates, larger than life man, he would pay for kids missions trips. Secretly, he was always giving towards the dream center, towards outreach towards missions.
- [05:25]
B
Yeah.
- [05:26]
A
He had a construction company. He was gruff. His sons were actually in the production.
- [05:33]
B
They played soldiers.
- [05:33]
A
They played big soldiers.
- [05:36]
B
They look like David And Andrew the Mountain, the guy who played Jesus Judah, had also designed and made the soldier costumes. Yes. And he saw them wearing it and he was like, wow, I'm so glad they fit.
- [05:49]
A
Yes. Because they are massive.
- [05:51]
B
They are big guys. And I loved. Because it's wonderful when you have soldiers that are like D. Adeyemi. He. He was a soldier in this show and he. Wonderful man. He actually sacrificed a lot to be in this show.
- [06:03]
A
Man.
- [06:03]
B
Yeah.
- [06:04]
A
And I think that's the thing that just the sacrifice people get to be in. But I went up to the Cates brothers last night and I told them, I said, hey, I want to let you know that I know your dad passed away this last year. When your dad passed away. And when Grand. Grand passed away, I felt so strongly. We need to do a new script. And the story has to be about eternity.
- [06:27]
B
That's right. That's right.
- [06:27]
A
What happens when you die? And I think that the older you get, those of you who are listening, if you're older, you've thought about death.
- [06:35]
B
I hope so.
- [06:36]
A
You know?
- [06:37]
B
Yeah.
- [06:38]
A
And people may say, well, that's morbid. Or that's Debbie Downer. I think it helps you stay sharp.
- [06:43]
B
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.
- [06:45]
A
It helps you stay the good woke.
- [06:47]
B
It also keeps you alive longer. If you think about it keeps you
- [06:49]
A
alive because you're like, I am mortal.
- [06:51]
B
That's right.
- [06:52]
A
And so what the heck am I doing on this earth? So anyways, that was. It was the spark to the script.
- [06:58]
B
Yeah.
- [06:59]
A
Then we began writing the script of the Great Forever.
- [07:02]
B
And we need to acknowledge Josh Malden.
- [07:04]
A
Josh Malden.
- [07:05]
B
At the end of King of Kings Part 2, he goes, have you guys ever heard about.
- [07:08]
A
And King of Kings part two was Easter 25.
- [07:10]
B
Easter 2025. Yeah. And he's like, there's this cool story. It's like kind of biblical, not apocryphal. Yeah, exactly. So we based Atticus off of Longinus, the legend in the Catholic story stories. And if you don't know.
- [07:23]
A
Yeah. So Google Longinus.
- [07:25]
B
Yeah. That story is crazy. And you'll see. I think it's on social media and stuff. There's videos about summarizing the life that he lived. But essentially it's the storyline of Atticus, that this was a man who was a soldier. Upon stabbing Jesus in the side, his poor eyesight was healed by the blood and water that hit his face and it changed his life. He dramatically switched. And then if you've seen the Great Forever, if not, it's on YouTube, go watch it. Soundtrack out on Apple And Spotify. But, yeah, he converted and believed that this man was the son of God. And there's a legend that, like, that's why he said what he said, because when he stabbed him, his eyes got healed, and so then he went to preach. And then near the end of his life, he was martyred for his faith, but they had cut out his eyes and his tongue. And yet miraculously, despite his tongue being cut out, he was still able to speak.
- [08:13]
A
Yeah, it was. It was literally a miracle. The story.
- [08:16]
B
That's the cool apocryphal story.
- [08:18]
A
Apocryphal, which means it's not in the Bible.
- [08:21]
B
Right. But it's now adjacent.
- [08:23]
A
Yes, adjacent. So it is the centurion that says, surely this was the son of God.
- [08:29]
B
Yeah. And so anyway, we did, like, fudge and combine, like, a lot of soldier interactions with Jesus in the Gospels. We combined in Atticus. Yeah, That, I think, is poetic license that we have the creative license to do. Because as long as you stay true
- [08:43]
A
to the scripture and those of you who are listening watching, I don't know if you guys have ever created something. And then there's someone who is. They're really into theology, and they go, hey, I disagree with how you did this.
- [08:55]
B
Sure.
- [08:56]
A
What's our answer to those people who go, hey, this scripture, this wasn't necessarily in the Bible.
- [09:02]
B
Thanks for watching. Yeah, thanks for watching. Yeah. There's no end to that. And what's crazy is they. Those folks don't see themselves in the story as they should. You know, there are years past where, without mentioning names, it's like there was a scene where the Pharisees are questioning Jesus and they're giving these big theological terms. And I was intent on being like, I went and found the dumbest, like, lengthiest theological words for the Pharisees and whatever, all these questions that they would ask Jesus, because that's what the Pharisees in the Gospels did. And then this young girl who is deaf comes to Jesus and he chooses not to heal her. Then he heals her at the end of the show. And there were folks who were really adamant that that was misrepresenting the gospel. And I was like, well, here in scripture, he actually did something similar. And also, you are more upset with that fake deaf girl in the show than you are that there is a deaf section in the church. Why aren't you?
- [10:04]
A
Why are.
- [10:04]
B
You know what I mean?
- [10:05]
A
Yeah.
- [10:05]
B
And so those are the things where in the past, I used to choose violence and have those combos choose violence. And now I Don't. Because I'm like, I'm glad you're watching. I'm glad that Pharisees have a place to go. Like, I have a far more broad heart nowadays for every category of person in the church. I like Pharisees, and I appreciate them. I really like the godless people who are, like, hungover at church on Sunday. I'm so glad you're here.
- [10:31]
A
Yeah. Because both of those people are welcome.
- [10:34]
B
I'm glad they're here. I'm glad they're watching.
- [10:36]
A
Yeah. And usually what's unique is when people talk about something, like those of you who are creators and you're creating something, if someone is talking about it or disagreeing with it or talking about it, look at it. Like Instagram. It drives up the algorithm.
- [10:51]
B
Wonderful. Yeah.
- [10:52]
A
So basically, like, people will put rage bait on Instagram.
- [10:57]
B
That's right. And.
- [10:58]
A
And the comments actually make it more visible and popular to people who aren't even following that post. Love it. What is unique? And we don't do rage bait. Yeah, we. And we always. You know, Pastor Paul always searches through it, and if there's anything that doesn't line up with the word of God or is not glorifying and edifying the Bible, he's like, take it out. Which, thank God, that hasn't happened in a while.
- [11:23]
B
Yeah, we've gotten better.
- [11:25]
A
We've gotten better, I would say.
- [11:28]
B
Yeah.
- [11:29]
A
So. But, like, the people who have something to say about one of the productions, it's like, oh, I'm glad that it's making you talk 100%. It's making you think.
- [11:43]
B
Yeah.
- [11:43]
A
You know, even though. Because that means it's gonna stick in your head.
- [11:48]
B
Right.
- [11:49]
A
So whenever you create something, the goal is make it a memory, because memories are monetary. And I'm not saying we're making money because we're not charging cost, production, always free. But what I'm saying is, if someone can have a memory of something that you created, you now have a special place in their mind. You have real estate.
- [12:12]
B
That's right.
- [12:13]
A
And people like, I have grown up and I have been in college, faced with a decision where no one would have found out. And I could have chosen something that would have been very detrimental to my future. And I remembered this old TV show called Gospel Bill.
- [12:33]
B
Yeah.
- [12:33]
A
And Gospel Bill was Willie George, and he did an episode on doing the right thing, and then telling the truth, even when it hurts, and all that type of stuff. It stuck in my head. I think that was. As I got older, I was like, I'm not watching this. This is corny. This is dumb. But it stuck with me.
- [12:54]
B
Absolutely. Yeah.
- [12:55]
A
And guess what? It says it in the Bible. But for some reason, I didn't think of the Bible, I thought of Gospel Bill.
- [13:01]
B
Yeah, he packaged it for you.
- [13:03]
A
He packaged it for me. I remembered a story. I remembered a TV episode.
- [13:08]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [13:09]
A
And so I was like, dude, I gotta do what Gospel Bill says.
- [13:14]
B
Good.
- [13:14]
A
Isn't that funny? But I think that as we do these productions, our goal is to make it a memory so whenever someone is in a place in their life that they truly think through the lens of eternity.
- [13:27]
B
That's right.
- [13:29]
A
And it's not because of John and Arvin, but it's because of, like, oh, wow. I remember in this production.
- [13:35]
B
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
- [13:37]
A
Whenever know Atticus was choosing to be Lucius.
- [13:41]
B
Sure.
- [13:42]
A
Or to follow Jesus.
- [13:43]
B
Right, right, exactly. Yeah.
- [13:45]
A
Anyway, so. And that's our whole goal behind this. It's not just to do a show. In fact, Pastor Paul's really big on. On our verbiage, we don't say we're doing shows.
- [13:55]
B
Sure.
- [13:55]
A
We're doing church services, because that's what it is. Yeah. And sometimes when I invite people who don't go to church, they go, so when does it start? And I go, well, And I have to be honest with them, I go, you show up. And there are songs in the beginning.
- [14:08]
B
Yeah.
- [14:09]
A
And they go, songs in the show? And I go, no, it's. It's worship. Praise and worship.
- [14:14]
B
Yeah.
- [14:15]
A
And they go, okay, yeah. How long does that last? Can I just show up for the show? And I go, I think it's good for you to show up for the worship.
- [14:21]
B
You won't get a seat.
- [14:22]
A
And then afterwards.
- [14:23]
B
Yeah.
- [14:24]
A
And then, you know, Pastor Paul kind of shows it up and there's some preaching in it. And Pastor Paul preaches throughout.
- [14:29]
B
Yeah.
- [14:29]
A
So anyways, it is unique that, like, they, like, even how we say it, it is a service.
- [14:35]
B
Yes.
- [14:37]
A
Okay. So from there, as far as the story goes, we wrote about Longinus, and then we go, okay, we need some Easter eggs. So when you're writing a story or like in a movie, something that is an Easter egg. In the movie Gladiator, I'm using this for an example. Is the. The wheat. The wheat is just throughout the movie. Yeah. Him touching it. And then it shows him in the afterlife at the end, arriving in eternity. Then they basically use that again in Gladiator 2. Not that it was a good movie, but.
- [15:12]
B
Yeah, I didn't see it.
- [15:14]
A
But basically, that's an example of An Easter egg.
- [15:16]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [15:17]
A
What are some Easter eggs? And I want to see those of you who are listening, watching if you caught these in the Great Forever.
- [15:23]
B
I mean, there's. We try our best to put as many as possible in there.
- [15:26]
A
Yes.
- [15:29]
B
Do you have a favorite you want to start with?
- [15:31]
A
So one thing that I like is in the very beginning, there's a boy by the name of Thomas. And again, this is something we took creative license on, but he was the boy that Jesus blessed the loaves and fish.
- [15:45]
B
Yeah.
- [15:46]
A
Now. Oh, yeah, there's two Easter eggs in here. And really, I'm just like. I'd be surprised if anyone got these. But the first one is very evident to the soldier. He's like, I didn't steal anything. And he goes, okay, okay, just point me out to Jesus, and I'll pretend that I didn't see the loves and fish that you didn't steal. And he goes, pinky swear. And then they pinky swear. Well, then later, little Thomas is having a conversation with Jesus, and he goes, so you really mean it, like, after I die or I could live with you forever?
- [16:25]
B
Yeah.
- [16:25]
A
And then he goes, pinky swear. And growing up, my dad never liked us swearing, so he would say, we don't swear. We promise.
- [16:31]
B
Yeah.
- [16:32]
A
And so. And then Jesus looks at him and he goes. I mean, pinky promise.
- [16:36]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [16:37]
A
And then they pinky promise.
- [16:38]
B
Yeah.
- [16:39]
A
And then at the very end, when Mason jumps in his arms, they pinky promise.
- [16:42]
B
Yeah. At the resurrection.
- [16:43]
A
At the resurrection that Pinky promised.
- [16:45]
B
Oh, I can get emotional theme out of that.
- [16:46]
A
And it is so precious.
- [16:48]
B
Yes.
- [16:49]
A
And just that small thing, it's like what Jesus is to the child inside of all of us. Exactly. And then on the theology side, you know, the cool thing is, is in the New Testament, after Jesus was raised from the dead, the apostle Paul took someone underneath his wing to go and preach the gospel, and it was a teenager boy by the name of Timothy. Timothy. Oh, sorry, his name is Timothy.
- [17:20]
B
Yeah, yeah. You said Thomas, but you meant I met Timothy. His name's Timothy. The whole show.
- [17:24]
A
His name is Timothy. The whole show.
- [17:25]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [17:26]
A
So one who knows theology would hope that little Timothy is gonna grow up, and maybe that's the Timothy that apostle Paul.
- [17:36]
B
Yeah, It's a little wink.
- [17:37]
A
It's a little wink.
- [17:38]
B
Yeah.
- [17:39]
A
As opposed to an Easter egg. There's Easter eggs and then there's Winx.
- [17:42]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [17:42]
A
The next one is. Do you want to explain the spear?
- [17:45]
B
Yeah. So the idea. This is a spoiler. So if you haven't Watched the show go watch it first. But there is Atticus, who carries a spear because he is a centurion, Roman centurion. There is the old man who has a cane that he walks with the whole time. At the midpoint of the show when they're at the crucifixion. Atticus, having now seen that Jesus has healed his eyes because of the blood that he. His eyes, he snaps the spear which represents his breaking away from the sharp power chasing. He's disgusted by it. There's the whole character arc of Lucius, the villain who refuses to accept Jesus no matter how many times Jesus heals him. He gets healed twice in the show and just gives credit to other idols and things. So when the spear breaks, it becomes the cane that the old man has been carrying the whole show. And so that's a nice little totem for the audience to realize. Like, this spear represents this one. It connects the fact that this is one character at two different time periods, one during the life of Christ, 1:27 years after. And then it also is like a microcosm of what will take place for a human being when they accept Christ. If you are at the cross and whatever you've been using to assert yourself as powerful people being sharp, this is my performance in life. If you break that off, what the. What they would do back then with canes is they would etch their story and their. Like, everything that they had overcome. And it's in the film, you can see the markings on the cane. So it's a nice little, small, small Easter egg. But if you get it, it's actually a big concept. The concept is God will write a story on your life if you will just surrender the things that you're actually relying on to Him. Get rid of that stuff. Let him get rid of your attempt to assert your will into the world, and let him assert his will into your soul and what that will do to your life long term. So these are things I relish and enjoy. I don't expect every viewer to see. I mean, sometimes people will. We're grateful to have folks who will come to several shows or they'll watch it several times with their families throughout the year, and they'll go, you know what I just realized? Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Cause my favorite movies are the ones that, like, I had to. I watched Inception in theaters four times. I watched Interception.
- [20:03]
A
How many of you guys have done that? Like, whenever you've seen a movie that you're like, okay, this is really rich. You've watched it so Many times that now you start seeing new things.
- [20:11]
B
Totally. I do that constantly. My favorite movies are the ones that every time I watch it I go, wow, that's interesting. I've watched the show succession every episode at least five times. And every year I go back and watch it again. And every time I pick up on new things, wow. So I measure the what I have not enjoy. I think everyone's on the same page about this now because nowadays there are folks making really good Christian content. Back in the day, what we didn't appreciate about the well intended attempt to make Christian content was the fear of being misunderstood drove scripts that were like, you knew everything about it. There was no nuance missing.
- [20:50]
A
Do an example. That way they understand.
- [20:52]
B
Yeah, I just think like.
- [20:54]
A
Like a Netflix show.
- [20:56]
B
Yeah. I mean, the thing going viral now is how Matt Damon exposed that. Netflix contractually obligates people to repeat the plot line throughout the movie because they know that people are on their phones. And so I, as a creative person want nothing to do with that. Like, I would love to make something for Netflix, but the idea that you slip things in there that if someone's on their phone the whole time, they'll still get the plot. Well, what you've just done is you made it non memorable and you've eliminated the people who showed up and gave you their attention. You are stewarding their attention poorly. So I think about friends I have who are watching things who are like paying attention to the details. And what I'm doing is going, I'm going to sacrifice the attention that you've given me to steward for the sake of the person who is not paying attention. I'm gonna dumb everything down for them so that you. I don't care if you're paying attention or not. And unfortunately, that is the intention there is to reach broaden the audience to as big as possible. But I would rather that a handful of people get the message really, really well than 100 people kind of get it. Because what we don't realize, this is just a societal observation. It's not even about our shows in general or even Christian media. If you are sacrificing for the sake of the broad audience, the broad audience has turned you into a commodity. There's no long term. Like, that's why movies don't feel like movies anymore. When you see something, there's nothing cinematic about it, you're like, this is just slop. This is just. It's so bad that they're actually threatened by AI Whereas like AI could not make the Godfather but it can make the 600 derivative Godfather movies that have been made since then, all the sequels, all the crazy, you know, whatever. So that's all. So we want to make stuff that rewards the person I really enjoy when I watch things or when I make things. Reward the person who has granted you their attention.
- [22:54]
A
So I want you to say that again slower for anyone out there who. Whether the people who are writers, the people who are. And I'm not saying that we have it all figured out. We have been blessed to be in the. What we are doing.
- [23:08]
B
Yeah.
- [23:09]
A
You know, Pastor Paul and Pastor Ashley have trusted us, and we're just trying to be stewards. But what did you just say about granted us?
- [23:19]
B
Reward the person who's paying attention.
- [23:21]
A
Reward the person who is paying attention.
- [23:24]
B
Yeah. That's the. Attention is the currency of the age right now.
- [23:28]
A
20, 26.
- [23:29]
B
Yeah, it's been that way for a minute.
- [23:31]
A
Yeah.
- [23:32]
B
Yeah. Like what a person will actually pay undivided attention to. There are fewer and fewer things that that's happening, and I'd like to reclaim that. I'd like it to be when I see a movie, like, there are certain people I won't watch movies with, because I'm like, you're going to be on your phone the whole time. You're not. You're going to talk during the movie. You're gonna get up and go to the bathroom and not pause it. You know what I mean?
- [23:53]
A
What's going on?
- [23:54]
B
Yeah.
- [23:54]
A
I'm like, have you guys ever wanted to show someone a movie? And then they get up to use the bathroom and you go, do you want me to pause it? And they go, nah, nah. Oh, yeah. You go, get out of my house.
- [24:06]
B
I one time a buddy of mine did that, and while he was gone, I just fast forwarded to the end of the movie. And when he came back, I was like, it's almost over. And he was like, oh, cool. And I was like, yeah, I. Because I'd seen it 10 times, you know, and so. But there are friends of mine, and these folks I'm thinking of in particular are not believers, but they came to this show, and when I. When we do movie recommendations, it's that way. It's like I'm paying attention, so I honor their attention. And so when they wanted to come see the Great Forever and they're willing to come to a building that they usually don't because they're not believers, they don't have a faith structure, and they want to come watch the show, I go, absolutely. What are we doing for their attention span, because they're not going to come just watch. Just because it's a church service. So that's where I'm really proud of the show, where I'm like, thank you, God. That the story. Even if you refuse to accept Christ, which I hope that's not the case. The story in and of itself has its own arc. Is it entertaining? Does it work? You know, and it doesn't just at the end of plot, not like plot holes. Be like, well, God is good. Yeah, that's what used to happen. Yeah. You know, not here. But I'm saying, like, that was just.
- [25:21]
A
It's like, okay, so what you just said. Every time there's a. Like recently in. In Hollywood, if there's a plot hole, they go, let's make it a demon or ghost.
- [25:29]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [25:30]
A
Or let's make it an alien.
- [25:32]
B
Come cop out.
- [25:32]
A
A cop out. And the only reason I say that is because certain scary movies.
- [25:37]
B
Yeah.
- [25:37]
A
If it is a human being.
- [25:39]
B
Yeah.
- [25:39]
A
It's literally scary. And you're having to figure out, okay, how does this bad guy stay alive throughout all these things? But once it's an entity, like, once it's a demonic possession. And I don't watch those because obviously they're demonic. But I also don't watch them because they go, you can. Once something is a ghost, you can do anything.
- [26:02]
B
Yeah.
- [26:02]
A
Once something is an alien. And so that's why I. I'm not really. When it comes to scary movies, I'm like, oh, I'm just not impressed when it's an alien or if it's a ghost, because I'm like, oh, the writing is going to be a little bit more easier.
- [26:17]
B
Yeah, of course.
- [26:18]
A
But whenever it's a human, you're like, oh, yeah, shoot.
- [26:21]
B
Yeah, like, that's actually scary. Yeah. Because then you have to figure out how to operate within the bounds of the laws of physics and the laws of mortality. Yeah, yeah. And then it makes it.
- [26:31]
A
And then you're like, oh, yeah, they're going to have to write. They're going to have to work at this in order for it to have an ending that, you know, ties a bow on it.
- [26:40]
B
Right.
- [26:40]
A
But anyways, yeah, dude, I love talking about that.
- [26:42]
B
Likewise.
- [26:43]
A
Yeah, yeah. I hope you guys. And if not, you guys have already tuned us out.
- [26:45]
B
Yeah, fair enough.
- [26:46]
A
We're trying to reward your attention, so thank you for listening.
- [26:49]
B
I do think there are. And thankful. Thank God for you. There are a lot of people who have been very supportive about these productions and about these Podcasts. And those of you who are watching, we're very grateful. Thank you for supporting the grade forever. And yeah, there's people I'm thinking of that are constantly. And then some of them are here at Victory in Tulsa and others are at different churches in different states. And it's always wonderful to hear from them.
- [27:13]
A
Yeah. Thank you. Because you guys don't have to. And we are not any smarter than you. We just probably do different things. You know, one thing that is also unique that I just wanted to hit on towards the end of this podcast was we are also under authority. Kind of like what the centurion said, hey, I'm a man under authority. When I say go, they go. You know, what are you saying to Jesus? We are dudes under authority. The unique dynamic that is very real and is whenever we do our rehearsals. So here at Victory, I'm gonna say another thing to come back to the thing. First Wednesday is at Victory. We don't do church services. We do like a family intentional dinner. And this whole vision came from Pastor Ashley that she pushed it out. Well, guess what? Easter is falling on first Wednesday. It's April 1, which is also April Fool's.
- [28:11]
B
Sure.
- [28:12]
A
And we've already had it, you know, anyways.
- [28:15]
B
Yeah.
- [28:15]
A
So it was like, okay, April 1st is first Wednesday. And Pastor Paul's like, I still want to do a service on a Wednesday night.
- [28:24]
B
Yeah.
- [28:25]
A
And it was. It goes okay. Not only was Easter earlier this year.
- [28:30]
B
Yeah.
- [28:31]
A
We are now starting on a Wednesday.
- [28:34]
B
Yeah.
- [28:36]
A
Okay. Are we going to be ready? Well, Pastor Paul shows up on Monday nights and we are still getting tech lighting, videos, environmental projection, acting, choreography. Like, there's so many things unfinished.
- [28:54]
B
Sure.
- [28:54]
A
And so Pastor Paul is coming in to watch it. Two run throughs of things unfinished. That is the most stressful time for me.
- [29:04]
B
Yeah, fair enough.
- [29:05]
A
Arvin has done a good job at being able to, like, take notes and listen to Pastor Paul.
- [29:12]
B
Yeah.
- [29:12]
A
In the past, Arvin can vouch for this. It would get ugly, me and Paul, and we would get in knock down, drag out fights and it was like tears and arguments and all this stuff. And then it would always ended up being okay.
- [29:31]
B
Yeah.
- [29:32]
A
You know, because in my mind, I'm like, we've been working on this for so long. And you just come in, da, da, da. And he's like, john, this stuff doesn't line up with the Bible. I was like, yeah, it doesn't always have to. And I would be like, paul, you show snippets from Lion King. That's not in the Bible.
- [29:47]
B
Yeah.
- [29:47]
A
And, you know, all of these, I guess you could say, valid, unvalid arguments.
- [29:52]
B
Yeah.
- [29:53]
A
And it's gotten a lot better.
- [29:54]
B
Yeah, I would say. Absolutely.
- [29:56]
A
And another thing is, I feel like we. We've really tried to gain his trust.
- [30:02]
B
Absolutely.
- [30:03]
A
You know, and if Pastor Paul was sitting right here, he would also be like, oh, yeah, this is the thing.
- [30:07]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [30:08]
A
So this year, that. That Monday night before Wednesday night. Yeah, it was rough, at least for me.
- [30:16]
B
Yeah. The show was loose in that the nuts and bolts were there, but they weren't done. And so that's always the case. It's like, hey, these videos still need to get done. These songs need to get mastered. This other stuff needs to happen, et cetera, et cetera.
- [30:29]
A
Yes. And then the Tuesday night before, things were getting nuts and bolts were getting tightened overall. But, like, the first run through the cast was like, I feel like just coming out of work or they eat fried food or something, but they were just sweepy. They were like, I'm tired, you know, And I was. These are all volunteers. The thing that people have to understand.
- [30:54]
B
Yeah.
- [30:55]
A
Is it not clocking with you?
- [30:56]
B
Yeah. Standing on business.
- [31:01]
A
Standing on business. That's an old Justin Bieber.
- [31:04]
B
Yeah. Thanks for watching, Justin. We love you.
- [31:06]
A
Thanks, Justin. Thanks for supporting us. But this is this. This service, this production is free. No one pays anything for it. Victory pays.
- [31:22]
B
Victory pays for it.
- [31:23]
A
Yes. And it's a big investment because we view it as an outreach. It's not something to entertain people. It is a outreach. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so we're putting all this effort into it. Well, then all the people that are in it, no one is paid. And I think that blows people's mind. No one is paid. These people are members of Victory. So those are three hoops that you're, like, jumping through is like, none of these people are paid. They're volunteers. So you were working with volunteer time, you know, and they're not professionals.
- [32:00]
B
That's right.
- [32:01]
A
Like, now, Judah, the guy who played Jesus.
- [32:04]
B
Yeah.
- [32:05]
A
We have had people who are very gifted and talented. He's very gifted and talented, and he. And he has gotten in. He's broken into, like. He was in a movie recently. Oh, yeah.
- [32:14]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [32:15]
A
Commercials, things like that. In fact, our last three Jesuses.
- [32:19]
B
Yeah. Rob. Yeah. Joseph Bain.
- [32:21]
A
Joseph Bain.
- [32:23]
B
Praise God, dude.
- [32:24]
A
Yeah. And they're all. They were like. Rob Goodman was in Tulsa. King.
- [32:28]
B
He was absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
- [32:30]
A
I'm so. I love that. I love that. I love that. Our. The people who are in our productions, they go on and they act in other things.
- [32:37]
B
Joseph was in Twister. Yeah.
- [32:39]
A
Oh, the fame was in Twisters with Glenn Powell.
- [32:41]
B
Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful.
- [32:43]
A
That is cool.
- [32:43]
B
There's a scene where Glenn Powell high fives Joseph Bame in the movie.
- [32:47]
A
Dude, he high fived our Jesus.
- [32:49]
B
Yeah, that's right.
- [32:49]
A
In a way, I love it. In a way, Glenn Powell high fived us.
- [32:52]
B
That's right. That's how I feel.
- [32:56]
A
This office blows up.
- [32:58]
B
Video cuts to black monsters.
- [33:00]
A
Take it away. Anyways. Yeah. We insert aliens. Okay, sorry. Let me get back on track.
- [33:07]
B
Yeah.
- [33:08]
A
What were we saying? So it's all of these things that have to come together perfectly in order for this to be. Well, we also have a very strong conviction. Like, we are stewarding people's attention.
- [33:21]
B
Yeah.
- [33:22]
A
We are stuttering. We are stewarding this. The money that was put towards this production.
- [33:28]
B
Yeah.
- [33:28]
A
Like, we. It has to be done well.
- [33:31]
B
Yeah.
- [33:31]
A
But we can't be butt heads to these people.
- [33:34]
B
Right.
- [33:34]
A
Because they're volunteers. But on the flip side, we can't be like, hey, it's okay that you were late and you didn't show up and you're not prepared.
- [33:43]
B
Right.
- [33:44]
A
Because then the show needs to be good. The show needs to be good. Also, I actually feel like you will lose volunteers.
- [33:51]
B
That's true.
- [33:51]
A
When volunteers sacrifice, they actually want you to call them out. You cannot be.
- [33:56]
B
No, that's true.
- [33:57]
A
You can't be mean. But I do believe that the people, they go, hey, thank you for getting on to me. Because we want this to be awesome.
- [34:06]
B
And realistically, if you have 25 people who are working very hard to be there on time, and then they watch you treat the person who refuses to be on time with like, it's okay. Now you have 26 people who don't need to be on time. That's how it works. Yeah. Yes.
- [34:20]
A
And so thank God that there's been a culture of excellence.
- [34:25]
B
Yeah.
- [34:25]
A
Of people just being like, oh, yeah, we are going to practice and it's going to go past 10 and I'm going to wake up in the morning and still have to go to school, still have to go to work. I am tired. But we're still going to be working on these things.
- [34:36]
B
Yeah.
- [34:37]
A
I do have to show up on time. You know, we are going to be eating on the floor while we are also getting dressed.
- [34:45]
B
Yeah. It's a lot.
- [34:47]
A
It's a lot.
- [34:48]
B
Yeah.
- [34:48]
A
And so, you know, with all of that happening, it is truly a miracle how God just brings things together. And, you know, I. We could not do this without our Cast and crew, for sure. We have people volunteering, building, Building props.
- [35:04]
B
Absolutely.
- [35:05]
A
Doing makeup, doing wardrobe. People who are helping out with tech that are volunteering because they believe in what we're doing. Because going back to the very beginning of the whole reason behind the script is this counting for Eternity. And what I've realized is. And this is what will come to a close, is that if you are working in a business, if you're working in an organization, if you're working for a church, it makes a huge difference whenever you go. What I am doing right now is impacting eternity. It is making a difference. There is a great forever purpose behind it.
- [35:44]
B
Right.
- [35:45]
A
I find that people are more. There is more. There's heightened expectations. People are ready to give it their all. You know, sometimes working in a business or a job where you truthfully ask that question and you go, why, sure. You know, what am I? Is this having any eternal purpose? Now, I do believe that there are. I. What I also love is I have. There's a woman that I know of that's a neighbor. She works at a call center. And it is for, you know, like, washers and dryers.
- [36:22]
B
Yeah.
- [36:22]
A
Which you would think, like, you grew up and this is what you wanted to do. But she looks at it as a ministry opportunity. So she's attached eternal purpose to what she's doing. And she's like, oh, I pray with people over the phone, but I asked permission first from my boss, and I prayed with people.
- [36:38]
B
Beautiful.
- [36:39]
A
And so anyways, all of that to say is that you can find eternity behind what you're doing anywhere. It's just. Okay. Now that this is. Do everything as you would do it unto the Lord.
- [36:50]
B
Agreed. Yeah.
- [36:52]
A
So, hey, we wanted to say thank you. If you have not seen Great Forever.
- [36:57]
B
Check it out.
- [36:57]
A
Check it out. Let us know what you think. Listen to the music. Let us know what you think about the music. We worked really hard on it. We tried to include the whole title, the Great Forever. In the first one, he changed my forever. The second, what does it mean to be great? Because you hear different people's perspective, and then you hear Jesus. And then the third one, a love that never Dies, Lazarus is singing it post his resurrection. He's singing about him, but he's actually singing about Jesus.
- [37:30]
B
That's right.
- [37:31]
A
And then the last one is Eyes of Fire, which is a very cool, modern take on the Passover. Even though it's. It's all. We. We stuck to scripture when Jesus spoke.
- [37:41]
B
Yeah.
- [37:42]
A
But it's just a cool. The eyes of fire. It's actually a double entendre for the eyes of the centurion.
- [37:49]
B
Yeah, that's right.
- [37:50]
A
His eyes became on fire when he was like, surely this was the son of God.
- [37:54]
B
Right? Yeah.
- [37:54]
A
So a little behind the scenes. Look. We hope you guys enjoyed today.
- [37:57]
B
Yeah. Thank you so much for watching. Appreciate it.
- [38:00]
A
We'll see you next time.