Best Days Podcast | Season 11 Episode 4

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Behind the Scenes at Victory | Best Days Podcast Season 11, Episode 4

Hosts: John & Arvin
Date: April 15, 2026
Setting: Behind-the-scenes look at life, faith, and community at Victory Church in Tulsa, OK

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Episode Overview

This candid, conversational episode offers a behind-the-scenes glimpse of the personal and communal life within Victory Church. John and Arvin reflect on spiritual maturity, the realities of relationships (both in and out of church), and the power of honesty and personal growth. Through humorous anecdotes, confessions, and thoughtful discussions, they challenge listeners to embrace truth, withstand discomfort, and lean into transformative growth—both personally and spiritually.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Changing Seasons—Materialism and Maturity

• Timestamps: [00:24] – [05:04]
• Discussion opens with lighthearted banter about seasons changing, material possessions, and how values shift with age.
• Arvin shares about giving away shoes he once cherished, explaining that the significance of material things diminishes as priorities change (“…in the last six weeks, [I’ve] given away a lot of shoes to people…” — Arvin, [01:52]).
• Both note how becoming parents or maturing shifts focus outward, placing higher value on family and relationships over personal acquisitions.

2. Family, Ministry, and the Truth of Past Events

• Timestamps: [05:04] – [11:11]
• John asks Arvin, a pastor’s kid, about the evolving understanding of family and ministry stories as one matures.
• Arvin describes learning the “full story” behind their family joining Victory Church, including moments of pain and integrity in church leadership.
• They discuss the importance of passing down true, honest family history, including messy parts, to the next generation.
• Quote:
  “To be able to be like, this person said this about us… we just decided to handle it the way God led us to do that. And that’s why we ended up here at Victory.” — Arvin, [08:09]

3. Integrity, Honesty, and Being Real in Relationships

• Timestamps: [10:17] – [13:49]
• Arvin reflects on times he failed to be truthful out of a desire for acceptance, emphasizing that maturity means telling the truth even at the risk of discomfort.
• Discusses church culture at Victory, where vulnerability is valued, but warns that openness can sometimes result in getting hurt.
• Notable Moment:
  Jokes about Victory’s new slogan: “Come to Victory, where you can get hurt… And that’s not a bad thing.” — John, [11:21]
• Message: True love and friendship involve staying long enough to hurt and be hurt, choosing to love and commit even through discomfort.

4. The Role of Offense and Hurt in Community and Growth

• Timestamps: [11:53] – [16:02]
• The hosts discuss why it’s important “to stay long enough to get offended” at church—a test of whether you’re truly called to be somewhere or just attending for convenience.
• The same principle is applied to romantic relationships; love becomes real when you choose to stay and work through inevitable hurt.

5. Personal Stories—Friendship, Ministry, and Disappointment

• Timestamps: [16:02] – [20:18]
• John shares ministry stories of connecting with newcomers and church members, sometimes ending abruptly or with disappointment (“Was that all a waste? Or, like, what even was that?” — John, [17:47]), reinforcing the idea that not every interaction yields visible fruit.
• Scripture is referenced: “Some people plant seeds, another man waters, but God brings the harvest.” — John, [17:54]

6. Memory, Truth, and Self-Deception

• Timestamps: [20:39] – [23:32]
• They explore how people often rewrite stories from their past for convenience, skirting uncomfortable truths (“Most times people just choose to believe the thing that’s most convenient” — Arvin, [20:51]).
• Advice: Taking honest inventory of oneself and living in truth is essential for maturity and spiritual fulfillment.

7. The Cost of Convenience vs. Calling

• Timestamps: [22:40] – [24:44]
• Arvin delivers a powerful insight: Convenience keeps you from your calling. Mature faith and a fulfilling life require embracing truth—even when it hurts or is inconvenient.
• Distortion of God’s good gifts leads to pain:
  “The extent to which God anoints something to be good for us is how painful it is if it’s distorted, perverted, and mis-stewarded.” — Arvin, [23:36]

8. The Power of Scriptural Conviction and God’s Correction

• Timestamps: [24:49] – [26:13]
• They refer to 2 Timothy: scripture reveals truth, makes us aware of what’s wrong, corrects us, and teaches us how to live right.
• Quote:
  “God will make you realize what’s wrong… then straighten you out… and teach you to do what’s right.” — John, [26:06]

9. Confession, Consequences, and Growth—Personal “Egging” Story

• Timestamps: [26:14] – [36:10]
• John humorously recounts a teenage prank of egging houses, getting caught, and facing consequences—used as a metaphor for its spiritual implications.
• The story serves to illustrate:
  • The relief and freedom found in coming clean, even when it’s painful at first.
  • How running from accountability prolongs stress, but facing truth brings peace—“That night, I had the best sleep of my life.” — TV Character (cited by John), [26:58]
  • Authentic repentance and making amends as stepping stones to maturity.
• Quote:
  “After a few weeks in, I was like, I’m doing what I’m supposed to be doing. And I’m caught and everyone knows.” — John, [33:59]

10. Spiritual Maturity: Running to God, Not From Him

• Timestamps: [36:10] – [39:09]
• Arvin contrasts immature faith (running from God after a mistake) with mature faith (running to God for help and transformation).
• “I actually cannot get better while running away from you. I will get worse. So while you help me clean up this mess… can you also shape me into your image?” — Arvin, [37:32]

11. Key Closing Reflections & Takeaway

• Timestamps: [39:09] – [39:53]
• Arvin’s final encouragement:

  “The fear of [what God will do if you own your mistakes] is way worse than what God will actually do when you just acknowledge… Open it up, God, here it is, I’m an open book.” — Arvin, [39:27]

• The hosts challenge listeners to practice introspection, sincerity with God, and courageous honesty in both faith and relationships.

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Memorable Quotes

• “Come to Victory, where you can get hurt… And that’s not a bad thing.” — John, [11:21]
• “Stay long enough to get offended. …It’s so important.” — John, [11:55]
• “Convenience is actually very [separating] from your calling.” — John, [22:44]
• “The extent to which God anoints something to be good for us is how painful it is if it’s distorted, perverted, and mis-stewarded.” — Arvin, [23:36]
• “God will make you realize what’s wrong… then straighten you out… and teach you to do what’s right.” — John, [26:06]
• “The fear of it is way worse than what God actually will do when you just acknowledge [your faults].” — Arvin, [39:27]

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Core Themes

• Integrity & Truthfulness: Spiritual and emotional maturity depend on honest self-inventory and confession, even when it’s painful or inconvenient.
• Relational Reality: Long-term community, whether in church or other relationships, will include offenses and hurts—growth comes from how we respond.
• Ownership over Blame: Real progress happens when we stop blaming others (or God) and take responsibility for our actions and growth.
• Running Toward God: Maturity means trusting that God’s correction is ultimately loving and restorative, not punitive.

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Listeners are left invited to live with open-hearted honesty, both before God and in their relationships—with the assurance that genuine growth, maturity, and peace are found not by running away from truth, but boldly embracing it.

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Transcript

[A]

Hello.

[B]

Hi.

[A]

Welcome back.

[B]

My name is John.

[A]

My name is Arvin.

[B]

And this is behind the scenes of

[A]

our bash Days, season 1111.

[B]

And we just want to say thank you so much for listening and watching.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, yeah, we are in a great season here at Victory. I say that every season is. Is great, even in its hard times.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But those of you who are just started listening to this podcast, this is all about a behind the scenes look at Victory and just the church in general. We both get to serve underneath Pastor Paul and Pastor Ashley, and we absolutely love them and honor them. And so, yeah. So we just wanted to say welcome. You know, as before we were starting, we were talking about shifting and changing. We just are getting out of the Easter production mode. We're in preparation for summer, but also, like, internally, I think people are. Christmas is over. Like, spring is in full height. It's. But we're not yet at summer.

[A]

No.

[B]

You never know with Tulsa weather.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

But you're talking about, like, I was like, hey, don't put your. Oh, yeah.

[A]

Was I going to ruin.

[B]

To ruin that shirt?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And then you were like, I don't know. I'm kind of done with it.

[A]

I'm okay with it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I got to a point where I was like, I'm. Well, I grew up, like, you buy one pair of shoes per year, and those are your basketball shoes, those are your school shoes.

[B]

You do you use them all?

[A]

Yeah, it's one pair for the whole. And then there were basketball or, like, soccer cleats, whatever. I got. I grew up obsessed with shoes and clothes. And then as a young adult was like, finally, I have this money I can spend on, like, five pairs. I would go crazy and just buy shoes and buy this and buy that,

[B]

because it was the one thing you weren't allowed to have.

[A]

It was like, there was. It was very special.

[B]

Very special.

[A]

I wanted to load up on what was very special. But then after a while, it kind of fades, you know, Like, I. It doesn't feel the same. Yeah. And so I've actually, in the last six weeks, given away a lot of shoes to people. Like, there are some younger guys here that are into it and they like sneakers and stuff. And I'm like, you want these? Here you go. How big's your foot? You know? Yes.

[B]

I'm just asking.

[A]

And I actually. I bought a pair of Skechers. I was like, I don't care. I'll wear some Sketchers.

[B]

Shape Ups.

[A]

No, they're like, Skechers has actually Been copying other brands. Yes, but they sell them for cheaper. They make fake hokas. They make fake new balances. They make. And I'm just wearing those. These aren't. But it's like, I don't know, seasonally, things just change and that's fine.

[B]

And what's great about getting older. Shout out to all of the people who are getting older in the church chat.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. 30 plus crap. 35 plus. Yeah.

[B]

You know, I think that things mean so much and even on the church side of things, I see. Well, you just see this in life overall. Things that mean so much. You're talking about things that were special when you were. What was special when I was younger was dessert. So you. Of course, I'm going to gorge on desserts as I get older. Something that was special was like you said, the shoes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, this was back before Walmart had cool brands.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Walmart has great brands now.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's leveled up.

[B]

I. I love shopping at Walmart.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When I was younger, if someone goes, you got that from Walmart. Those are not Doc Martens. Those are fake Doc. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would get rid of. It would stick for a week.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That was a stain that would not come out of my psyche.

[A]

It was insult.

[B]

And then I went through a season to where it was like everyone was really granola and into camping and even though. And I like, got into rock climbing and hammocking and camping, and I just bought so much stuff from that because I wanted to be there. And looking back, it's cringy. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. You know? But I remember giving things away and being like, what am I even doing with this stuff? And then I also realized you go through another phase when you have kids. Congrats. You just had your daughter.

[A]

Yes, my wife did. And we. Oh, yes, I was there.

[B]

You were there. You helped a little bit.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did, I did. I was very helpful.

[B]

But as I have kids and as they're getting older, I care less about the things that I have right to where people call me out and they're like, hey, bro, you need to get a new wardrobe. And I'm like, yeah, I just don't care. It's just. Whatever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I gotta make sure that my kids. Kids. My daughter, who is in sixth grade.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I care about her. Feeling good about herself.

[A]

Exactly. Yes. It extends to her.

[B]

I'm like, so I am going to invest in my daughter's shoes. Totally. Because I. I care about what she feels.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

With my shoes, it's whatever.

[A]

Yeah, no, exactly.

[B]

With my boys, you know, it's. It's those same. They're not. They don't necessarily care about clothes yet. So I'm like, okay, y' all are still wearing hand me downs and things like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's just funny.

[A]

Absolutely. It grew, it extends.

[B]

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And we're talking about, you know, even with people who are. Who are part of your church. You know, Arvind, his dad is the

[A]

pastor of the Iranian church here at Victory, and also just travels and preaches in Iranian groups.

[B]

I was asking him. So Arvin is a pastor's kid. You know, those of you guys who grew up in ministry, maybe your parents were missionary kids or pastor's kids. I was like, do you ever look at pictures of people that were friends with your parents? Or maybe they were around when you were young and they were ministering alongside of your parents, and then you just had pieces and bits to a story.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And then now that I keep on clearing my throat. Sorry, allergies, Tulsa weather. But then as you get older, you go, wait, whatever happened to blah, blah, blah?

[A]

Yeah. What was the story then?

[B]

And then you find out the full story, and you're 41, and you go, what?

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that happened.

[A]

Totally, totally.

[B]

Have you guys ever had that? If you know what I'm talking about, give me a shout out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But basically, you have this core memory of an individual in your life, and then that individual is no longer in your life for whatever reason. And then years go by, you get older, and then you find out something, and you go, what? It could be good, it could be bad, it could just be odd.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you're like, I don't know what to do with this information, but that is wild.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. I've had several examples where one time, the events that led to our family coming to be at Victory in the early 2000s, I at the time was like, in third, fourth, fifth grade. So I just knew, oh, we're going to this big, awesome church now. And it was the Navy center at the time. And, like, that's fun. That's exciting. And your parents and my parents met up, and they were. Your parents are very gracious. They were like, we will host you here for free. Like, you can have services here. At the time, it was the 247 building.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I only knew the story was that, oh, wow, this exciting new thing is happening. The board of the Iranian church has met with Pastor Billy Joe, Pastor Bruce Edwards at the time, and how exciting. And then when I was older, like, right around the time I was getting married in 2020, I was already on staff here by then. My dad was like, we went to breakfast, and he was like, do you want to know, like, how it all happened? Yeah. He was telling me, like, family history stuff. I guess, because I was getting married, he felt like, let me just tell these stories that he's never heard before. And one of them included the full story of what went down and people in the church doing this, that, or the other. And it was just incredible because it turned into a. Went from breakfast into a lunch because we were there for several hours. You know that thing when you're at a restaurant and, like, the food's been done for a while, and the waiter and waitress is like, so, do you need anything else?

[B]

Yeah, you had eggs. Are you ready for your burger?

[A]

And there's just all these people waiting for it to sit down. So we just kept ordering stuff to make it okay and tipped well. But what I appreciate most about that was that my dad was able to tell me the version of a story that was completely true, that included what other people had done, right or wrong in that whole situation. And it makes me think about

[B]

the

[A]

integrity it took to go for him and the people involved to go through that story and go through the pain of it and the hurt and to handle it well, so that when they do tell the story and they tell the full truth, kids later, there's no like. And there have been other times. Sure. Where it's like, well, I made a mistake here and there, but to be able to be like, this person was saying this about us. This person said this about this person, this. You know, all this stuff was going on. We just decided to handle it the way God led us to do that. And that's why we ended up here at Victory. And it makes me motivated to be like, I want to be able to tell my daughter someday and hopefully future kids. Like, yeah, that happened. Yeah. And then we chose to handle it this way. I already have stories, thank God, by the grace of God, that I can go, yeah, that person did that to your mom and I. And we just pray for them. We didn't do what we. You know, And I feel like that is grown man, grown woman type stuff, where it's like, yeah, that's how we handled it. And so being able to. And I have stories of friendships and relationships where I'm like, oh, yeah, I didn't handle that. Well, I was scared to communicate. I didn't tell the full truth in that moment because I was afraid of being. Not being liked or whatever. And so it's interesting to take inventory and hopefully someone does that before they get in their 30s, but I'm certainly doing in my 30s and being like, okay, as I move forward, I'd rather deal with the consequences of telling the truth than try to lie so I can avoid an awkward moment, awkward situation. That's where I've gotten to now, where it's like, just tell the person how you. What's really going on, what's really true, and if it makes them upset or dislike you or not want to be around you anymore, at least they're disliking the real you versus liking a fake version. You know, I've had enough of that in my life. Yeah. I've done decades of that at a time where they.

[B]

Where they like the fake version.

[A]

Yeah. Where you're like super successful at mirroring to people back to them what they want to see from you, what they believe is. Want to be true about themselves and. Yeah, it's a real empty existence.

[B]

No, that's very. Yes. I remember doing, like, I think those of you who grew up and you were like, oh, at the church. I think at the church, you know, you have to be all things to all people. So everyone needs access to you and everyone. You need to be a friend to everyone. Victory is very, very personable. Pastor Paul is someone where after he preaches, he will go down for sure and greet people. Pastor Paul shares a lot of personal stories. Him and Ashley are very vulnerable on stage. So the culture of Victory is, let's get close.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The danger of that being at Victory is you can get hurt.

[A]

Yeah, you will.

[B]

Where? Yes, you will get hurt.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. And that's our marketing. Yeah. Come to Victory where you can get hurt.

[A]

That should be next Easter's tagline. You will get hurt.

[B]

You will get hurt. And that's not a bad thing. Because getting hurt is not bad and

[A]

it's not unique to Victory. If you're in a relationship in any where place in life, even outside of

[B]

a faith context like this is one thing that I have said is whenever it comes to. When it comes to Victory, I've said this to people. People go, hey, I'm thinking about joining Victory. And I go, great. Stay long enough to get offended.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

I was like, it's so important to stay long enough to get offended. Yeah, I think that's very healthy.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And then once you're offended or once you're hurt, then you can ask the question, do I feel called here, or did I choose to be here because my friends are here?

[A]

Yeah. Was it just.

[B]

Or was it convenient?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think once you're facing that decision, then you can really, truly be in the will of God for sure. Also. And I think you should do that whenever you do everything. If you are in a relationship and you go, I want to date this person, stay long enough to be hurt, because I truthfully believe you can't love someone until you've been hurt by them. Then you're like, because. Because love is a choice. So you can be physically attracted to them. Sure. You can go, oh, I want to go on dates.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But I think that after a few dates, then you're like, okay, yeah, am I ready to be hurt by this person?

[A]

Right.

[B]

And would I hurt this person and then want to still stay? You know, like, those are tough things, but I also feel like that's what love is. Because love is a decision.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Exactly. It's whenever you're like, oh, I don't feel like.

[A]

Like, no, that's right.

[B]

Anyways. But all of that to say there has been moments where. At Victory, because we're very personable and I just grew up where my dad would be at church on, like, a Sunday, and there would be a guest, a guest speaker, or someone who's like, oh, we're dropping off our kids at oru, and I'm a pastor in Angola, Africa, or I'm a pastor from, you know, Sarasota, Florida, or, you know, just different places. And they would visit my dad after the 11:00am yeah. He would go, sharon, my mom is still singing. He'd go, sharon, let's order some. Let's make a little bit more pot roast. They're coming over to eat lunch.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, you know, initially, I would see my mom be, like, be frass up, eyebrows out while she's singing. Believe that Jesus is here. All things are impossible. But my mom would be singing, and she would go, okay. And then she would finish. Back then, we didn't have social media.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You didn't have text messages. Right. So she would call up, you know, Ginger Carnes, who's been at Victory for sure, ever forever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's all she smelled. She's been a Victory. Hey, Ginger, we gotta run by Walmart to buy some more chicken because this pastor is coming over. We need to set up more placemats. And she would call another woman named Sherry, who's also been at victory. Who was. Who helped out? She was a missionary, but she kind of helped nanny the kids while my parents were doing missions. And they would set up more plates, and then it was just last minute. And my dad just wanted everyone to feel connected.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it would happen all the time. To where? Almost to the point to where back then in the 90s and early 2000s, people did not understand boundaries. And my dad would just be like, sure, let's do it. Let's. You know, sure, yeah, I can meet with you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I think that mindset went with me. Yeah. And so whether I was a youth pastor, I would be at victory downtown. I remember distinctly. I had core memories of people where we had victory downtown at campus. And there was this guy who. He was like, hey, I just moved here from Kansas, and it's just me and my dog. And I heard music. I'm staying in these apartments. And I walked down. I thought, it's weird that, like, is there a club or a concert happening on a Monday night? Because our whole thing was like. We didn't say this in marketing, but we're like, Mondays don't have to suck anymore. Because everyone had a case of Mondays, but we had our downtown service on a Monday night. And it was for people who would, like, you know, drink or party on Saturdays, and then on Sunday, it was their only day off of work. So it was really for the downtown crowd. It was a great idea. It was from God. It was just for a season.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So during this time, I wanted this guy to get connected, because I don't know why, but whenever I talked to him, and I was the one who was like, yeah, come and sit by me, you know? And then he was like, wait, are you gonna go up there and speak? And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm preaching tonight. And then afterwards, he raised his hand for prayer, and then I just like. And I was just like, hey, there's a group of us.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We're going to the buffalo river in Ponca, Arkansas.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Why don't you come with us? And it was a group of victory downtown guys, and we probably took 15 or 16. And that guy came.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he was like, in the best motives possible.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, we sign an honor code or we don't drink. He brought brewskis for everybody. And he was like, dude, we're drinking on the river.

[A]

Generous.

[B]

So generous. And I was like, hey, I'm so glad that you came. We're not gonna do that, but thank you so much. What am I gonna do? So he goes, well, then I'll just wait for me. He's just pounding bruise. And this whole time, I'm like, this is so fun.

[A]

Yeah, sure. Yeah.

[B]

And anyways. But he kept on coming to Victory. And then, you know, he was just like, hey, next week, I need to tell you something about my job. Well, the very next week, I can't remember what happened, but I wasn't there. And then I never saw him again, and he never came back. And I was like, oh, no.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Called and texted him. He never responded. And I'm like, yeah. Was that all a waste or was it. Or, like, what even was that?

[A]

Right. Right.

[B]

You know, like, yeah, that is so weird. But then I remember the scripture that, like, some people plant seeds.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Another man waters, but God brings the harvest.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it just happens with that. So that's on the ministry side of things. Well, then there's relational things to. Where I would, you know, someone would ask to, hey, John, I would love to be an intern for you. Sure. And I was like, okay, great. And there was this guy, and he was like, I've done productions at. Do you guys remember there was this ministry called Teen Mania?

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

And Teen Mania, it's no longer a ministry. And they did this big thing called Acquire the Fire.

[A]

Yeah. Right there.

[B]

Right over there at the baby center. And they would do these massive conventions and conferences. Well, this guy was an intern with them, and he was like, I acted in them. And. And I want to be. You know, I want to be with you. And I was like, well, I don't have a position to hire you. But he was like, fine, I'll be an intern with you. Well, then I went overboard just trying to be friends with him to include him. And I was like, hey, this is what we're doing for the script. And he's like, hey, I want to act in it. Well, then later, my kid's mother at the time, she's at a coffee shop, and she overhears this individual bashing on me and being like, oh, yeah, I actually wrote the script. John doesn't know what he's doing, and he goes on this rant, and she turns behind him, and he's talking to two girls.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she's guessing he's just trying to impress these girls.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So she corrects him in front of the girls, and she's like, hi, I actually know him. He's the father of my kids. And what he is saying is wrong. Yeah. I don't know who you are.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Like she's saying this to the guy. I don't know who you are.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I do know John and da, da, da, da.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And here's the thing. Like, I was like, oh, that's weird. I wasn't upset at this guy.

[A]

Sure, sure, sure.

[B]

And then afterwards, he felt embarrassed, but good. But yet he was like, can we still be friends? And in a weird thing, I was like, yeah, we can. We hung out one more time. And then he just kind of faded away.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And in my mind I'm like, what even was that?

[A]

No, sure.

[B]

Like, what was that a friendship? Was that a God, what are you doing? So anyways, you guys who are listening, like, I'm sure you guys have had those moments with people where you go, what even was that?

[A]

For sure, Absolutely.

[B]

And that person on the other side is looking back and being like, I remember when I was sure. With John doing these productions and I was at a coffee shop and then, yeah. The mother of his kids confronted, like, yeah, that person also has that memory.

[A]

Right. But maybe members remembers it differently. There are varying, you know, people tell themselves, we talked about it before. Like, is it true or is it just convenient?

[B]

And what does that mean?

[A]

Like, sometimes most times people just choose to believe the thing that's most convenient.

[B]

So break that down for someone who is involved, like in a church, like, if they leave a church or they leave a relationship, or maybe they start going somewhere, like, talk about how does that.

[A]

Yeah, let's say a guy and a girl go through a breakup. They were dating and then they break up. And the guy, I'll use a guy because I'm a guy. It's easier that way. Go says looks back on the relationship and is like, well, what happened that we broke up? Does he tell himself the truth about what happened or does. Is it more convenient? Because if, let's say he in this situation, the guy's like, well, I did actually, I was pretty selfish in these areas and I didn't consider her this way and I didn't like her family.

[B]

And then when people ask, hey, whatever happened to you and that girl?

[A]

The guy says, well, oh, she was crazy.

[B]

Dudes, if you're listening to this guys and you say that term, oh, dude, she was crazy.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Check yourself and make sure that she's in a mental hospital if you say that. If she's not, you might be the problem.

[A]

You might be crazy. Yeah, it's just in that case, it's convenient for him.

[B]

That's what you're talking about. About you're choosing convenience over.

[A]

Yeah. And if you just unfortunately, like, you can get away with that for a long time. You can, you can go through life being like, well, more can deceive. And it applies, yes, relationally, it applies in all the relationships with. With God, yourself, with others. Like, you can tell yourself what's convenient and believe it and then you'll unfortunately arrive at a certain age, perhaps, hopefully, and God might make it clear to you, like, well, here's why blank hasn't happened in your life because you refuse to. You know what I mean?

[B]

So convenience is actually very. From your calling.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's good. Yeah, that's right. I mean, I don't mean to be. No word rhyming, but that's true.

[B]

Convenient can stop you.

[A]

Yeah. Where it's like, I don't want to. I don't want to grow in my maturity. I don't want to be more emotionally intelligent. I don't want to. And what unfortunately isn't understood in that instance is the things that God has called me to, the life that God does have for me that is beautiful and wonderful. It will demand that emotional maturity. It will demand that capacity to forgive people. It will demand integrity. And if I don't have those things, then God giving me the life that I long for is actually a death sentence. It will be a very quick explosion onto, oh, wow, this is great. Great. And then, oh, wow, this is really, really bad. Because the extent to which God anoints something to be good, that's how painful it is if you pervert and distort.

[B]

Okay, hold on, say that again, but slower. About the anointing.

[A]

The extent to which God anoints something to be good for us is how painful it is if it's distorted, perverted and misdwarded. So he grants humanity human sexuality that is intended for pleasure, for procreation. It's wonderful. Now take that wonderful anointing for it to be really, really good for people. It bonds human beings together. It grows families. You have kids that way. It's exciting, it's awesome. There's pleasure involved. Wonderful. Now pervert distort and Ms. Steward sexuality and you have all the harms of. Etc. Etc. Yeah, sexual abuse. You got all this other rape, all these terrible, terrible things. And so it's really that God gives us. Wants to give us these wonderful, awesome things that are metaphysical, physical, life details. And the preparation for that thing comes in the form of taking honest looks at oneself, being very humble, to say God, what really. David says it in Psalm 139, God, point out anything in me that affects cleanse you.

[B]

Yeah. And lead me in the way everlasting.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

That's the rest.

[A]

So those. You can't just separate those from each other.

[B]

Yeah. Lead me in the way.

[A]

Absolutely. You can't be led in the way everlasting unless you are willing to have God point out in you the things that offend him. You know what I mean? So that's really the opportunity when you get into ministry, when you get into relationships, is that show up expecting for it to tell you what needs work on. Because that's even the promise of scripture. In second Timothy, it says, all scripture is inspired by God is useful to teach you what's true, make you realize. Make you realize what's wrong in your life. But then it doesn't leave you there. Straightens you out and teaches you how to do what's right. So this is the elevation path that God has for humanity. But it's like, well, I'd rather just believe that. And you can do it. You can lie on God's behalf and you can say, well, God told me that it was her fault. And that's fantastic. Good for you. But when you do that, you're stepping outside of the covering God has for you. And, you know, that's how we get to a lot of the issues we see today in church and culture.

[B]

You're so right. And will you. Okay, the three things that you said about that scripture.

[A]

Say that again. All scriptures inspired by God teaches you to. Teaches me what's true. What's true makes me realize what's wrong in my life.

[B]

And the key word is makes.

[A]

It makes me.

[B]

God will make you lay down in green pastures. He also will make you realize what's wrong.

[A]

Straightens me out.

[B]

He will then straighten you out after he realized. After you realize what's wrong and teach

[A]

you to do what's right.

[B]

And teach you to do what's right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now there's a. Now I'm gonna jump secular. There's a TV show that me and Arvin have been talking about. And anyways, within the TV show, this individual, he is like, he's trying to be secret, but he's stealing and all this type of stuff. Well, he finally gets. And the whole time he has had this inner turmoil and he is like, almost like an insomniac, like, can't sleep, all that type of stuff. Well, he finally gets to a point where he gets caught, he gets arrested and it's kind of like on his voiceover within this TV show. And he was like, here I am in prison. I finally been caught. And he was like, and that night I had the best sleep of my life.

[A]

Interesting. Yeah.

[B]

And I was like, wow. The whole show was about him. The inner turmoil was him knowing what he was doing was wrong. It just was like, ah, but it's convenient because fill in the blank.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And I just. Whenever he said that in the voiceover, I was like, oh, that's like, yeah. Whenever you get caught, it hurts.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But then you're like, oh, my gosh. I'm at. I'm at peace, right?

[A]

Yeah. It's an opportunity. Yeah, exactly.

[B]

I remember hiding things from my mom and dad or, you know, and then finally getting caught and being like, I'm going to die. No, I mean, like, sure, you know, my parents wouldn't literally kill me, but, you know, it's like, it felt like it. It felt like it. My life was going to end.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, before my senior year. One night. I don't know why. And I'm not. I'm not endorsing this, y'. All, but one night the summer before my senior year, I was like, what is the. What is the record for most houses egged?

[A]

Nice.

[B]

And we looked it up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we're like, okay. It was like 10 or 12 houses. I can't remember. This was in. It was in. We had to. It was in a library. There was no such thing as the.

[A]

Yeah, that's amazing.

[B]

You know, and it was just like, oh, okay. Well, then let's egg 25 houses tonight. Now I remember getting in, so. So obviously, like, all of these dudes spent the night. And I had a sliding glass door in my room.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Pastor Paul was with me, so I'm telling him, my bro. So anyways, and I remember we would sneak out. I would turn off the alarm because my parents were asleep. We would act like we were playing video games and we'd be like, oh, it's midnight. Oh, I think we're gonna turn in. Which no 18 year old ever says that. 17. Yeah. Who's gonna turn in when you can turn up? My parents are asleep because my dad would go to bed at like 9:30 because he would wake up so early to pray. Pray. Which is scary. But I was like, guys, whenever I knew my parents were asleep, I turned off the alarm and we went out the sliding glass door and we hopped the fence in my backyard to our cars. And I was like, all right. It's 2:00am My dad is gonna wake up at 5:00am yeah. We have three hours to get 25 houses. And we egged houses. And I remember after the first two houses, Pastor Paul is in the back of my truck, and he was like, guys, I don't think we should do this. I feel really bad. And I was like, you shut up. We're gonna break this record. And it became less about egging him. And he was like, just drop me off. I'll walk home. Him and two other guys were like, I don't feel good about this. You know, Like, I feel like, you know, this really does damage. And I was like, you are the biggest party pooper. Fine. So I actually took Pastor Paul and his friends back to the house.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they went to. So they only act like two houses. And I was like, y' all are pansies. And so then me and my friends, we went and we did all the other homes and.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Okay. Well, then we get back and we are like, oh, my goodness. We. It's five o' clock in the morning. We lay down, my dad wakes up for prayer, and the guys actually fall asleep because we. We were so tired. We were like, oh, my goodness, we did it.

[A]

We did it. We did it.

[B]

And everyone eats breakfast, and then everyone goes home. One of the boys gets convicted.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

And tells his dad, and then his dad calls our parents. And then it is like, all of these people. The dumb thing we did is we egged people's houses. That went to Victory. Awesome. Because it was like, that's where we know you didn't have Map Quest. We didn't have, like, we had to drive to the homes that we knew.

[A]

Sure. Yeah.

[B]

And so. Because there's no Internet.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. Well, then all of these people that were egging, they start connecting dots and they're like, I think one group of boys did it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And one of them was our chief cfo, Jeff Guder. And he's amazing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He had incredible daughters that went to school with us.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And I remember the next day, it was like, I probably wake up around 8:30, ate breakfast. Everyone left. It was no later than 10am where someone's on my front porch with the police. Awesome.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And it was like, they did this. They did this. The police came into the living room.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they're sitting there talking with my parents. Parents. And our phone is ringing off the hook.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Of people reporting us.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was just like. And I was like, paul, did you say anything and he was like, no, but, John, it's actually good that we got caught. And I was like, dude, you are not a good brother.

[A]

Just a stack of empty egg cartons in your room.

[B]

Yes. And so anyways, long story short. Remember, I got. I was. That happened right before football season. My dad was like, you're not gonna go to school your senior year.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

You're gonna homeschool. You're gonna do Victory Bible College, and you're not gonna play football.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, you know, for a week, I remember crying, and I had to go talk to my football coach, and I had to be like, I'm not able to play. And everyone was like, oh, my goodness. You know, because my dad was like, you're 18. I'll spank you. And then you're gonna be fine after I spank you. So I have to do something that hurts you.

[A]

Consequences. Yeah.

[B]

And so after. After about a week, my dad was like, your mom thinks that you're going to get in a lot of trouble if you don't do football. So we're gonna allow you to go to school, but you are doing nothing on the weekends. Right after football, you're coming straight home and you're gonna be with me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Da, da, da, da. And so I was grounded until Christmas.

[A]

Wow. Yeah.

[B]

But I remember being like. And I. And I had a girlfriend at the time, and. And my parents are like, you're not allowed to go on dates. You can talk to her at school. And then, because I felt bad, I just broke up with her.

[A]

Sure. And she was like, you're like, be free.

[B]

Yes. She was upset at me. Oh, wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She was like, we could have made this work. I would be fine.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Like, no, I'm turning to God.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was like, it's not you, it's God.

[A]

Blame him.

[B]

I was like, yeah, blame God. God told me to break up with you. God did not tell me I was just a pansy. And I didn't. I blamed it on God. Yeah. Okay. This is me coming clean. But all of that to say is that. That scripture outline those four points.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

I remember. I was like, for the first time, I really felt like I was living a pure life.

[A]

Yeah. Nice.

[B]

Because I was like, after a few weeks in, I was like, I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm caught. And everyone knows. And I had to apologize to all the parents. I had to go and clean all the homes.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, sure.

[B]

Me and one other guy that they felt was like the ringleader. We went and cleaned the homes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, scrubbed them down. Some of it got stuck on the paint, so we had to repaint.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Yep. So anyways, just a lot of great things. But I remember being like, I am a law abiding citizen.

[A]

Yeah. I'm doing it right.

[B]

I'm doing it right. I'm doing it right. But anyways, and guys, don't judge me for that because that was me a million years ago. But long story short, I think that there is something that, you know, whenever you do something, I think, you know, trying to wrap all of this up, whenever you are like, I'm following God even when it hurts and not when it's, like, it would be convenient for me to. Even though I was upset at Paul and my other friend for turning us in, it would have been convenient for me to, like, double down and be like, yeah, no, I'm not going to do this and I'm going to run away from home. Even though I thought about it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, all those things and. But that taught me things later on in life to where I was like, okay, even though I messed up, it is convenient.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To like, just be like, I didn't do anything wrong. All these people are, you know, basically pansies because they think that egging a house is bad. And it would be very easy for me to have a bad attitude, to look down on all those people. But I was like, no, I. I am wrong. What I did was wrong and I am a piece of crap for doing that.

[A]

Oh, man.

[B]

Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's okay to say that.

[A]

No. Yeah.

[B]

As long as you're like, okay, now, God, I don't want to do this again. So what do I need to do? You know?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And I think that following God when it hurts or staying in a relationship until it hurts because. Because then you're like, okay, me choosing like, that is love.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I think when you initially come into the faith, the idea of, like, what the world knows about the Christian faith is you need to act right. You need to, like, do the right things. And if you do that, God will, like, let you into heaven. Or, like, those are the basic, like, little ideas. But what really happens is no one's acting right. And hopefully Christian maturity includes a realization that, oh, I need to, like, respond correctly when I'm made aware of it. And what happens is you find out God is not standing there with a hammer waiting to punish you. He's wanting so badly to work on you. And with you so that you don't have to suffer the consequences of your bad decisions. And it's like, oh, actually, it's that old. I don't remember who came up with it, but it's that the difference between, like, a child breaking something in the home and being like, oh, no, I need to, like, run away from my dad and make sure he doesn't find out that I did this, versus saying like, oh, I broke something. I need to go find my dad. Being like, hey, I did this. I broke something. Can you help me come fix it? And I think that's a real precious analogy. Little story allegory. And then your story is like a real, but also mostly harmless example. But if you look at the landscape of most human beings in most relationships, that is the thing that's going on is it's a person either running from God or growing in maturity enough to run to him and say, hey, I've got this situation. I've got this thing. I'm certain, God, that I'm at fault in many, if not all of these areas. Really sorry, I don't want to be that way, but I actually cannot get better while running away from you. I will get worse. So while you help me clean up this mess that I've created or taken, collaborated with others in creating, can you also shape me into your. You know, as opposed to, hey, it's your performance, you need to act righteous or whatever. It's the, can you. Can I be around you long enough to take on your nature so that I accidentally fall into a life of holiness and righteousness and I'm aligned with you, and that way I'm not creating these messes, but also able to take ownership for the messes I have created. That right there is a cheat code to the next iteration of God's will for a person's life. Just taking the ownership and saying, this is something about me that I need to address and pay attention to. This is something about my childhood that I haven't paid attention attention to. These are unmet emotional needs. I haven't talked about or thought about the mere act of acknowledging those things and shedding God's presence on them and letting God have access to them. Is maturity happening? Yeah.

[B]

No, you're absolutely right, ladies and gentlemen. We hope that today made sense. I know that we were all over the place, of course, but if you had to close out with one thing, Arvin, what would you say to these people concerning today's podcast?

[A]

Yeah, I think the what you're afraid of God doing to you if you own all the things that are going poorly in your life, the fear of that is way worse than what God will actually do in your life when

[B]

you just acknowledge the fear of it is way worse.

[A]

Yeah. Than what God wants to actually do. Like, open it up, God, here it is. I'm an open book to you. What do you want to do?

[B]

And we hope that that speaks to you, those of you who are listening and watching.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that way as we all take an introspective look at our lives that we're like, okay, God, this week is going to be, you know, the rest of this week. You know, we know this podcast comes out on Wednesday, but the rest of this week and into the weekend, I'm an open book.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Thank you guys so much for watching and listening. We will see you next time.

[A]

Bye.

[B]

Bye.