B (1:37)

That's right. Exactly. That's right. Yeah.

A (1:39)

And so. And we are very blessed. My brother, Pastor Paul and his wife, Pastor Ashley, they're the pastors now.

B (1:50)

Before then.

A (1:50)

What? Sorry, excuse me, I'm yawning. It's been 45 years since I slept.

B (1:55)

That's true. This place has been awake for 45 years.

A (1:59)

There have been. There were times where. Guys, I'm just. Let me just. I'm going. I'm breaking off to a rabbit trail and then I'm gonna come back. There were times where we had a. We have a building across from Oral Roberts University near the Cityplex towers. And if you're not familiar with Tulsa, the Cityplex towers are massive. They're the width, height and length of Noah's Ark. Like those are the dimensions. And they built this building and it's. Anyways, right next to it was our Bible college. And then we had our youth and we had several things. So we had Service on Sunday, 9am Then we had a 10am, which was in our school building.

B (2:41)

Yeah.

A (2:41)

Then we had an 11am and they all started layered. So my dad would miss worship but get driven over by an usher to speak at the sermon and then after the sermon would go to the next service. Then we did Sunday night services.

B (2:56)

Wow.

A (2:56)

And within Sunday nights you also had youth and kids service. So you think about those people who were on staff on Mondays. What they had was. Pardon me, Monday night was. I don't. I think there was like a discipleship group that met. Tuesday night was young adult service.

B (3:19)

Yeah.

A (3:20)

Wednesday night was youth. Youth. It was our midnight service. And then Thursday night was Chosen or Soul. And it was basically an outreach. It was an outreach that like it. That started through the Dream center where they would meet out at the Dream center and they would do a service for all those kids in that area. Well, then they started busing those kids out to south, out south to our location to do a service for them. That happened every Thursday. And then basically they switched back and they're like, we just need to be in their community.

B (3:55)

Yeah.

A (3:55)

And then Friday night we had Victory singles. Pastor Ty and Debbie Barker were pastoring and they did worship. And it was a full on service on Friday for sure. On Saturday we did our bus kids ministry every day, every Saturday. And then they did a Sunday morning simultaneously while our services were going on. We had the Iranian church.

B (4:23)

Yeah.

A (4:24)

We had the Victory Hispanic church.

B (4:26)

That's right. There was a whole international ministry.

A (4:28)

A whole international.

B (4:29)

Huge thing.

A (4:30)

And anyway, so for years, I'm talking probably 10 years, maybe more, we were doing services seven days a week.

B (4:40)

That's right. Yeah. Yeah. The lights were never off.

A (4:43)

Right.

B (4:44)

Yeah. Incredible.

A (4:45)

People would, I mean they would clean from like 11pm to 6am, right. So they would clean every night.

B (4:54)

Right.

A (4:55)

But then the lights came on and then it was back at.

B (4:58)

It kept going. Yeah, yeah. It's wild. It's wild. Only God, really only God. Like you can, you can try to strive to put like one tenth of that into action, but to do that for four and a half decades, like only God could have maintained and multiplied it. Like it.

A (5:15)

Oh my goodness. But with the 45 year anniversary, it made me and Arvin begin thinking because we just wrapped up our easter production of 2026 and we had this unique camera angle that we labeled probably back in 2018. We had this thing called the God Cam. The God Cam is a, is a camera at the top of the catwalk and it's pointing directly down on the stage. And whenever you go to the live feed on cameras, you're able to pick up really cool shots of like dancing, of certain scenes. And it just brings a whole new perspective and a new ANGLE. Well, then right at the crucifixion, Jesus is on the cross and he actually looks up into the God camp and he says, father, forgive them for they have sinned. They do not know what they do. Into your hands I commit my spirit. It is finished. And he says it looking into the God camp and it just is a straight on shot of his face.

B (6:17)

It was the best shot I saw. I was like, wow.

A (6:19)

And it's so powerful. It's such a powerful moment because you can be in the room and you're watching everything happening in front of you. Then there's the movie camera where the people where it's going in and out of the crowd and our characters are looking into the camera and they're either saying their lines or they're doing a song. But the 45 year anniversary is like that God cam.

B (6:42)

Yeah.

A (6:42)

It's a perspective that you go, I've never thought of that angle. And whenever you look at the 45 years of victory and no, victory's not a perfect church. Like I said, there's been ups and downs and hard times and good times and tears and sorrow and blood sweat, you know, all of those things. But when you look at the God perspective, you go, wow, only God and that God camp, it just puts everything into a. Okay. God has grown victory over time, not in quick time. Right, right. It's not a microwave situation. Pastor Paul says it's a. We don't serve a microwave God. We serve a crock pot God. And that's basically what the God cam is. When you look at the 45 years of victory, it is, wow. From the God's perspective, when this thing happened, God turned it for good. When these people left or when these people came or when or whenever we received, you know, a certain check that we didn't expect in order to build certain things, it just has been. It was. It's like Tetris blocks that God has supernaturally ordained. And it's not been because of. Now, my mom and dad, they were good stewards of what God told them to do. Yeah, they worked very hard. They stayed integris, you know, and then my mom took over after pastor, after Pastor Billy Joe passed away. And then Paul and Ashley, they took over and they've done a good job.

B (8:08)

Absolutely.

A (8:09)

And but then again, it's like it's. It's not because of them.

B (8:13)

Yeah, yeah.

A (8:15)

Victory is truly. It's like it doesn't make sense how it's functioning.

B (8:20)

Sure.

A (8:20)

Like someone once said, there was a pastor that came and he was a guest speaker. And he goes, victory's like a bumblebee. Like, when you see a bumblebee, you're like, how can that big of a heavy thing fly?

B (8:29)

Yeah, yeah.

A (8:30)

And it's got these little wings. Yeah, that's what victory is. How is it that you guys are still flying?

B (8:35)

Yeah, yeah.

A (8:36)

You know, know, and not shutting your doors or selling the camp or. And there were times where it was like, how are we going to pay our staff multiple times.

B (8:43)

Yeah, sure.

A (8:44)

You know, and if you haven't watched the 45 year anniversary sermon from Pastor Paul, you should watch it. It's a great. You know, it's on YouTube. You can search it up.

B (8:54)

Yeah, it's.

A (8:54)

And it's been really great.

B (8:55)

Yeah, sure. Yeah. We live in a weird era where it's become like mainstream zeitgeist on brand to just demolish every institution and talk about how that shouldn't exist and that should be changed and that should. And it's very. At its core, I think the people involved can be a whole range of emotions about it, but I think at its core it is just a demonic attack that's like, I just want to see chaos and anarchy in the world and whatever. And so watching God's church. Yes, victory. But like, globally and also in the west, specifically watching God's church endure refinement, necessary refinement, and yet God is such a good father toward his church, where it's like, I'm gonna train my kids to go in a certain path. But also like, the pain of discipline is very, very different than the pain of an attack.

A (9:58)

Oh, the pain of discipline is different than a pain.

B (10:00)

Yeah. And so I think the church has been experienced. Like, if you think about what the. If you look at just church history in the last 50, 60 years, like what the church of the 80s and 90s and early 2000s inherited from the era before them, and then what they have been capable to produce for the 2020s, like, it's gotten really, really good. And I think people have. Really, most people. I'm 33, but I've spent 33 of my 33 years in church, in a pastor's home, experiencing this context. But there are so many people who are so spoiled by how wonderful capital C church has become. Yeah. That it's like we put church in the place of God. And I don't think God asks that, and I don't think the church asks that. And we are like, how come the. The imperfections of the church, the flaws of the church. That's My beef with God. And it's like, oh, yeah, thank you.

A (10:55)

Yeah.

B (10:56)

And that happens a lot. But nevertheless, it's been wonderful to see the church get healthier, the church get more resilient. Yeah, Just like unstoppable. Like when Jesus said, I will build my church and the gates of hell will not defeat it. Yeah, exactly. Like the Bible scholar Michael Heiser, recently, he passed away years ago, but he opened. In one of his talks, he opened up to this. He was talking about that scripture teaching on it, and he was pointing out there's a lot to the geography of it. But what specifically he was saying, like, the image sometimes people get of the gates of hell not prevailing is like the church is, like, in defensive mode. And the hell is like, attacking. I've heard this. Don't worry, it won't prevail. And it's like, no, no, no. These are gates of hell. So they are static and standing still. And we are the ones that are aggressive. Yeah.

A (11:51)

The violent men take it by force.

B (11:54)

And so I have a group of friends, my three best friends that I've known since I was a very little kid, and we have. They're all over the country and we're talking every day. We have a discord page and we're texting and we're, you know, everything from sports to movies to culture to whatever. And what we've recently gotten to do, because we have less and less time, is if we're really into a subject, one of us will write an essay on whatever we're talking about and then we'll debate, you know, like, my friend Andrew hagnai and I, he'll write a page on a paper we've done about politics. Whatever. The reason I bring it up is because the most recent essay we've been discussing is one I wrote, and the title of it came from this talk that we're having. I wrote, the future awaits. The vibrations they'll feel from the gates of hell, I mangle. And that phrase has become like. It is a. An anthem for me and my friends of like, we are gonna attack the gates of hell. The Church of God is gonna attack the gates of hell. And the violent sounds that we make as we hit those gates, those vibrations coming off of that metal, whatever, so to speak. Those vibrations will echo into the future. And the future is waiting on the vibrations. They will feel the healing of God that will come upon them, the sound waves of God's voice that will come upon them as God's church. But the problem is, when you're hitting gates like it's painful and it's. And there's, you got to have a long game perspective. You have to have a 45 year, 90 year window. Otherwise, you know, you get a few whacks in there and that's it.

A (13:26)

Then you feel tired. Yeah. And I get it because like I like what you. That is a very. If any of you guys have a group of friends and you're just like, okay, we need to do that. Steal his idea. Yeah.

B (13:41)

Write some essays.

A (13:42)

Write an essay and have you and your friends debate about it.

B (13:44)

Yeah.

A (13:45)

That's a good, fun conversation.

B (13:47)

Yeah, absolutely.

A (13:47)

Yeah, absolutely. I think that, you know, being on being involved within a church, what you see is you see individuals and this doesn't make individuals wrong or right. It's very human.

B (14:03)

Yeah.

A (14:04)

To what you said. Hit a few whacks at the gate of hell.

B (14:07)

Sure.

A (14:08)

And like, and then be amazing. And then after a few years being like, I'm tired, I'm burned out.

B (14:13)

Yeah.

A (14:14)

We're doing, we're doing services seven days a week.

B (14:17)

Sure.

A (14:18)

I can't do this anymore. Maybe I no longer should do the call of God on my right.

B (14:23)

Yeah.

A (14:24)

And then they step away or they're like, you know what, I'm just going to join, you know, X church down the street because my ministry is, you know, and I don't want to get into, you know, planning churches or all those types of things because that comes down to you hearing the voice of God very clear.

B (14:41)

For sure.

A (14:42)

But it is what I just have had some people who have been in friendship with me who have launched trust churches or launched ministries and they don't have a 45 year perspective. Sure. And I think that it is very hard, at least for me, you know, to just expect results within. Especially if you're trying to change a culture or just build trust within the community. Like.

B (15:10)

Yeah.

A (15:10)

You just have to continue being like, okay, forgive me. Okay. I'm in the long game. Yeah, I'm in the long game. I'm in the long game.

B (15:20)

Right.

A (15:21)

And you know, and practically I see it like whenever my boys are playing sports, you know, currently my boys, I have my boys, they wrestle and there's a season called folk style and folk style finishes around spring break. And you know, it's, it's the most popular in America. And then freestyle, which is another one. It kind of starts April. Yeah, it starts Aprilish and it goes through the summer. And freestyle and Greco, those two types of versions of wrestling, that's kind of what is popular around the World. And that's what people compete in in the Olympics. But what's interesting is, you know, the other day, my boys are at practices, and. And it's always. I always love. Because wrestling is so. To me, it's so biblical. It's like, it's in the Bible, you know, I'm not saying it's God's sport, but I am.

B (16:20)

He did wrestle with Jacob.

A (16:21)

Oh, there it is. That's what I mean by.

B (16:24)

Yeah.

A (16:24)

So anyways, all that to say what happens is, is. I see what it's. It's very cool to hear these stories of him being like, oh, yeah, there is kids who just get into wrestling and. And as when they're kids, they need to enjoy it. Yes, they're gonna be tears. Yes, it's gonna be hard, but overall, they need to enjoy it. If you push them too hard when they're young, they can win state meets. If they're winning state meets and they're in third grade, by the time they're in 10th grade, if they don't win state, then they may be like, this isn't for me. Or, you know, and he's like, most people who make it professionally are in the Olympics. And he's like, they don't really start peaking until they're like 18 or 20. And he's like, which sounds young, but, like, for the Olympics. And he said, you know. And he basically was trying to encourage all these elementary parents of, hey, if you just keep showing up to practice, right? And keeping them in these things, he's like, you're going to get frustrated, because if they're not winning or they continue to get slammed, or they're just like, my kid's getting beat up out there. I'm gonna pull him and he's gonna do, you know, another sport.

B (17:39)

Yeah.

A (17:40)

He's like, with wrestling, wrestling rewards the person who doesn't give up. He's like, that's what wrestling rewards. And he goes, other sports, it's like, you can increase in the skill. He's like, with wrestling, you just have to stay in it.

B (17:53)

Yeah.

A (17:53)

And he's like, and if you stay in it, you will be good. And he's like, but with other sports, it's like, you got to get better at shooting, you got to get better at dribbling, or, you know, whether it's soccer or baseball, like, you can improve on that skill. And he's like, wrestling just comes down to mental toughness. That's all it comes down to. And just continuing to show up. And if you're good at continuing to show up over time. You will get there. But you have. He always is like, give your kid a six year window. And I'm like, what six years? But as I'm in it, I have to continue to tell myself that anyways. And so I just thought, okay, that is a good. Whenever you're looking at ministry or you're looking at building something. I've said this before on other podcasts. Many people want to be a part of something great. Very few want to build something great.

B (18:46)

Great. That's right. Yeah.

A (18:48)

Building something great is like, okay, I have a long term view of this speak and where all of this is through the lens of the 45 years of anniversary of Victory. But hopefully what we're saying, you're able to listen and then copy and paste what we're saying to your personal life.

B (19:06)

Totally, totally.

A (19:08)

You know, and one thing that I loved about victory and we're jumping into a new thing was, you know, we did a passing of the baton. And passing of the baton was when my mom. Victory's always had some imagery based around and the imagery that victory has always had because my dad has been the harvest. My dad loved preaching about the harvest. It was something that was a staple every year. And he's like, look up, look up. The harvest is white, but the laborers are few. So he was always really big on missions and outreach and everything that we do is about reaching the harvest. That was his thing. And there was four corners on his casket and they put four bushels of wheat and they gave four bushels of wheat. That little icon. They made two copies and they gave one to each one of the kids.

B (20:04)

Oh, wow.

A (20:05)

And so I still have my bushel of wheat.

B (20:07)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A (20:08)

You know, this was on a corner of his casket.

B (20:11)

That's amazing.

A (20:12)

So that. And then the second thing was my dad loved the movie Chariots of Fire and it came out in the 80s. And it's a true story about a guy named Eric who was a runner and he chose. And it's the Olympics in London. Basically, he wins this big race, but he doesn't run on Sunday. Honors God anyways. But my dad would also preach a staple. And it was about finishing the race. And finishing the race was like, when you finish your race, you should be passing the baton. And then you realize your life was not a race. Your life was a relay.

B (20:49)

That's right.

A (20:50)

And he's like, when you look at your life as a relay, then you live your whole life of running it until it's time to pass the baton. And whenever he passed away, he's like, I'm now passing the baton on to my mom. And I'm getting emotional thinking about it, of course. But just because it's a powerful imagery to think through that, oh, my gosh, our life isn't just a race, It's a relay.

B (21:13)

That's right.

A (21:14)

And so I know for me, I'm passing the baton on to my kids. So anyways, we did this baton passing of my mom to Paul.

B (21:21)

Yeah.

A (21:22)

And during those years, you know, Paul was consistently compared to my dad and Paul. And if you guys ever heard Paul preach, he talks about it all the time. About, like, I used to wear my dad's shoes. I would wear my dad's suits. And he's like, I just could not run that, you know.

B (21:42)

Yeah.

A (21:42)

And which comes to this allegory that I'm going to say is, stay in your lane.

B (21:47)

Yeah. Wow.

A (21:48)

And if life, like, if the apostle Paul says, finish your race, you know, I've kept the fight. I fought the good fight, I've kept the faith, and I finished my race. And if life is a race or a relay, you should stay in your lane, because if you get out of your lane in a track meet, you actually get disqualified. You get disqualified. And how do you merge into the other lanes? Is when you're not locked in on your lane like blinders on a horse. Totally. When you're locked in on your lane, then you're not really. You know, it's like, okay. People are like, man, how are you guys are doing these productions or these conferences or. Or these things every year? You know, just from the outside, people looking in, they're like, wow.

B (22:29)

Yeah.

A (22:29)

And it's kind of like, well, that's the role that God has called me and Arvin to do in this season.

B (22:35)

That's right.

A (22:37)

And so there's things that I'm like. And I'm always someone where if someone's like, hey, John, we need you to whatever, teach a Victory college class. I'm not gonna go.

B (22:46)

That's not my lane. Yeah, yeah, sure.

A (22:48)

Yeah, yeah, I can. You know, but when I'm like, what am I called to do right now in 2026, in the spring of 2026, I have to rock it. I have to rock everything that I have within my lane.

B (23:02)

Yes.

A (23:03)

You know, there were. There have been times in productions where someone was a background character and I was. But, like, in a scene, the camera's on this main person.

B (23:16)

Sure.

A (23:17)

And this background character is up. Upstaging.

B (23:19)

Yeah.

A (23:20)

The main person, sure. And it's like they're doing all of this thing. It's like, dude, you were not cast to be in that role.

B (23:27)

Right, right, yeah.

A (23:28)

So it's like, okay, guys, stop. And there's been times where Ryan would have to stop a scene during our rehearsal and go, excuse me. And say the individual. Can you tone it down? Because you are upstaging what the audience needs to be paying attention to.

B (23:45)

Right, right, right.

A (23:46)

And so what I say to people is, in life, stop auditioning for a role that God has not casted you in. You can see it whenever. Specifically in the church world, we have a Bible college, connected. And so you'll have these people that it's like, oh, I'm auditioning for this role, like whether it be a preacher or whether it be whatever it is, a worship leader, all these things where it's like, oh, okay. The great thing is you do have giftings, you do have talents, but that doesn't mean that that's your role. Your giftings and talents line up with the assignment and then the calling in the specific season.

B (24:26)

That's right.

A (24:27)

And so anyways, and the one thing that John does not want to do is I don't want to upstage what God is doing in someone else's life. When it's like, okay, I'm going to stay in my lane. And then at a certain time I'm probably, you know, we're not guaranteed to be doing this forever. I'd love to, but when it's time, it's like, okay, it's time to pass the baton.

B (24:51)

Yeah, I agree. Yeah. There are so many directions to go in with this. The thing that comes to mind most prevalent is nothing proves that you don't trust that God has a good role for you, like trying to play someone else's role. If you're going to play the God given role, you've been granted your destiny, the biggest ambition and aspiration that you have, whatever that may look like, you're only going to be able to enjoy that role to the extent that you trust God. So if you don't trust God and then he puts you in your destiny, it will crush you and you will crush people on the way down and it will be really, really harmful to everybody involved. And we've seen so many examples of that throughout human history. But if you are cast in a minor role, which I have been time and time again, and I will be again in the future, if you can develop the muscle, the spiritual muscle of trusting God in a Minor, invisible role. Then when the time might come for a visible role, a public role, you just fall back on that level of trust and you're able to actually enjoy it. And I have been granted in my short life with my dad and his ministry and the way he operates and then all the other people that I've met throughout the last several decades, there are individuals who are doing things at a very high level, extremely excellent, high scale and severe anointing of God, and yet they are enjoying themselves. Then there are individuals I've met and I'm not calling anyone out or thinking, I just know there's an amalgamation, an average of individuals who are doing actually quite little, if you think about it, but they are not having a good time and their families aren't having a good time and their kids are not having a good time. And you're like, wow, so you're, you're, you really are only able to enjoy your God given destiny to the extent that you trust him. And so when I think about people that have been heroes in my life, all of them are people who are enjoying themselves. And it's like, you know, when Jesus says they will know that you belong to me by the way, you love one another. So having a community of love where people are kind to one another and not just fake, but like genuinely loving each other, that is the best apologetics to the watching world that doesn't have that kind of love, you know, or that love in their mind is this transactional situation. And so as I think about the church, where it's been so far, I feel this immense, not pressure, but like I feel like I told a friend of ours this morning over coffee, like I feel spoiled with how much has been granted to me opportunity wise in the last 30 years with the parents I got to have, with being here at Victory, growing up here, with the opportunities I have here, I feel like I've been given every. Like there are. When they say you stand on the shoulders of giants, I'm like, I feel like there are some like dozens and dozens of shoulders that have run the relay behind me to blend the metaphors. And I feel this, not pressure, but this permission that's like you can, you know, when you run a relay, you are granted a portion that you're supposed to run. And the idea is to do it as quickly as possible or to steward your time as really as well as you can.

A (28:11)

Right?

B (28:11)

And so that's how I feel where it's like, where was my family when I started and where will our family Be when I end. And I have to pause here because I have a daughter now. If I think about her burying me someday, and I think about, I'm doing good, I can do it. It's just like 30 seconds of me. You can't tell what I'm saying.

A (28:36)

Well, both of us are getting emotional

B (28:38)

right now because that's how it works. When you think about, if you go to God Cam, you're gonna get emotional.

A (28:42)

If you go to God Cam, you're going to get emotional.

B (28:45)

Zooming in on Jesus face and he's bleeding.

A (28:48)

When you go to God camp, you're gonna get emotional.

B (28:50)

You can't fly that high up in the cab. Pressure not be different. So, yeah, when I think about that time period, I'm like, I'm gonna. I don't care necessarily where I end up as much as I care that I went the distance that I was called to. No more or no less, you know? And I want to accomplish every bit of whatever God has destined me to accomplish. And most people who arrive at that conclusion are like, good, let's go. And they want to run and hit the ground going and whatever. And it's like, keep in mind, you can go really, really fast if you're by yourself and you have nothing around you. And there are seasons where God calls a person to that, where he tells his disciples, like, hey, go out there. Here's the power to heal. Here's the power to cast out demons. Don't even take an extra bag. Don't even take extra clothing. Just go. Go in my power and enjoy it. And he doesn't give them resources or money or anything. Anything. And I remember reading that years ago and thinking, like, if I have left everything to go and do what you've called me to do, no resources, no extra clothing, just then he says, he doesn't even guarantee them success. He's like, when you go to a town, whatever town you choose, there's not even a specific town. He's like, just, you know, show up. If they receive you, bless them, and if they reject you, shake it off. And you're like, you know, who's gonna. You know everything. You know, who's gonna reject me, right? Why not send me to the ones who are gonna reject me? Well, but what Jesus is doing there, his brilliance in that moment is you need to learn that you can be rejected by a town, by a group of people, by man, and yet you're doing it in my power, operating in the power of God.

A (30:30)

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

B (30:31)

Hold on.

A (30:31)

Did you guys, those of you guys who are listening, watching, take a break? Okay, so you said what he is saying is you can be rejected by a town, you can be rejected by people.

B (30:47)

Yes.

A (30:47)

You can be rejected in certain seasons of your life and still be doing it in his anointing.

B (30:54)

That's right.

A (30:55)

And in his name.

B (30:56)

It's imperative, if you think about Jesus passing the baton to his disciples to operate in his power after he has left the earth in physical form and before he sends the Holy Spirit, he has to send them in this season where they don't have resources and they don't have opportunity, and they're not living in the fullness of the destiny God has for them. They're not even aware of the fullness of the destiny God has for them. And they all go out and they execute exactly what he says. They experience the rejection. They experience the success. Both things happen. And they learn, oh, I'm neither of these things. I am not as bad as the people who reject me think I am. And I'm not as powerful as the people who make an idol out of me think I am. So they all come back to Jesus, and it's amazing, after having seen so many miraculous things take place, they're not interested in discussing their successes. They're not interested in complaining about their failures. They merely wish to spend time alone with him. They come back to him, and that's the context where he goes, yeah, let's go be alone together. Let's go find a remote place where all of us can just sit together. And that's where the feeding of the 5,000 happens. And so when he's passing a baton to them, you have to have times like that. And I think of my first 33 years of life as that. So far, like, I don't even think I've started anything. I'm like, we're just learning. We're just learning. We're just, you know. And then later on, when it's time for him to get ready to leave the earth in physical form, then he's more specific and he goes, hey, don't just go wherever. Go to this city. Go to this house.

A (32:28)

Yeah.

B (32:28)

You will find a guy holding a pitcher of water. Follow him specifically. And when you do that, go there, say this specific sentence. Yeah. I think most people think that after you get saved, after you cross the line of faith and accept Jesus into your heart, that you jump to that moment where God speaks to you. Specific details about.

A (32:48)

Doesn't always happen.

B (32:49)

Yeah. You rarely have to go through that first period of time to build the trust that enables you to enjoy the deaths that you have from God. So then when they go there, they do that, they set everything up, and then he dies. He comes back to life. He teaches them for 40 days, ascends to heaven. And all of a sudden, minus Judas, all these disciples execute this plan and purpose. The church of Christ that we're talking about today, celebrating 45 years of victory, but that has been operating in the earth with every other type of government, every other type of economic system. The church of Jesus Christ, the last 20, 26 years has been advancing violently without permission from anybody else but God. And everyone who's tried to kill it and everyone who's tried to stop it has failed and will continue to do so because of what he started there. And that idea of, listen, trust me in this little invisible, minor role you're called to play right now, and please learn what you need to learn about the deceptive nature of success and failure. Neither of them are as true as what they suggest. And then step into a life where you're actually just pursuing Jesus, experiencing intimacy with him, and then that just keeps being interrupted by the miraculous. So you're not making a brand out of the miraculous. You're not making a. You know, if he had done it here, if he had come, I'll use myself an example. If you just came to me and was like, here's the power to heal people and here's the power to cast out demons. Go see what happens. I probably would have never come back. I go set up a whole business. I'd be a billionaire, just raking it in, being like, look at how you know what I am.

A (34:26)

I'll cast out your demons.

B (34:28)

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'll set up a booth. I'll make so much money, it's great. And that's what a lot of people have done as well. But here we are, where that stuff fades away. That stuff gets proven to be fraudulent for what it is. And yet there is power to heal and there are power to cast out demons. But it comes in the context of those who are intimately seeking Jesus and knowing him through the holy spirit. And yet. And then it's like, oh, wait, there's 5,000 hungry families. Let's, let's, let's. And it's happened at victory time and time again. When Covid happened, it was like, here we are, the church itself being attacked by the world. Yeah. Everyone's like, y' all should be closed. What's going on? I never heard the same thing about the casino over there. I would drive by on the way home from services here on the, the. On the roof. And I was like, the casino's open. I don't hear the protesters at the casino. That's interesting. And yet the church was being attacked. And in the middle of the most severe vitriolic, hostile attacks coming at the church, Victory fed 15 million meals.

A (35:25)

Yeah.

B (35:26)

You know what I mean? And so I'm just like, I remember

A (35:28)

when they started attacking churches because of the cold weather. And they're like, churches won't let, let the people who are without homes in there. And it was like, okay, let's rally. And so we opened up warming shelters at our two dream centers.

B (35:46)

That's right.

A (35:47)

And it was like. And not that we do things because people bash on us. In fact, it was already set in place. And that was a few years ago now. Anytime the temperature drops below free freezing.

B (36:00)

Yeah.

A (36:01)

We have like, it is something towards, like, hey, guys, every winter we'll have warming centers. And every summer we will have cooling centers.

B (36:10)

Yeah.

A (36:10)

Where we'll have cots. And we'll have a place. Because some people who are without homes, they have pets.

B (36:15)

Sure.

A (36:16)

And so it's like, we'll have a place for your pet.

B (36:18)

Right.

A (36:18)

And. And we're already prepared for that.

B (36:21)

That's right.

A (36:21)

So that way whenever those things come up, people start talking smack. And it's like, well, actually we've been doing it. And so I think that, you know, throughout those 45 years. And in closing, thank you for sharing.

B (36:33)

Yeah, of course.

A (36:34)

That was really, really good. In closing, I think that the whole thing about 45 years, we're not here to just be like, oh, look how awesome Victory is. We're actually saying, look how awesome God has been. Like, all we have to do is just not screw it up. And even if we do screw screwed up, God's will will still be done. Yeah, that's right.

B (36:55)

Exactly. Yeah.

A (36:56)

And so that's why I, you know, I just feel truly blessed. And within that, just to reflect on what we've talked about is the God cam will make you emotional.

B (37:06)

That's right.

A (37:06)

But it is the long term vision of whatever God has currently put you in.

B (37:11)

That's right.

A (37:12)

Also stay in your lane.

B (37:13)

Yeah.

A (37:14)

Stop auditioning for roles God has not casted you in.

B (37:16)

Yeah.

A (37:17)

And just being like, God, God, what role have you cast me in in this season?

B (37:21)

Yeah.

A (37:22)

And then, you know, the, the thing that Arvin brought up about.

B (37:27)

Sorry, refresh my memory. No, you're good. Just endurance the endurance. Endure the minor role.

A (37:32)

Enduring the minor role.

B (37:33)

Learn to build trust with God.

A (37:35)

Learning to build trust with God.

B (37:37)

Yeah.

A (37:37)

And you know, you may say, well, yeah, I've heard all of these things before, but it doesn't hurt to be reminded of them.

B (37:43)

Yeah.

A (37:44)

And. And you're always reminded of them. Whenever you see something, you go, how has fill in the blank lasted this long?

B (37:53)

That's right.

A (37:54)

And it truly is the oldie goldies. It is that not being offended, staying in your role, not giving up, just staying in it. And those of you who have felt discouraged that are listening and maybe you've gone through a season of will blank ever happen?

B (38:13)

Sure.

A (38:14)

I want to encourage you to go to the God camp and be like, all right, nice. What perspective? Like, where am I at right now? And I hope God brings you. And I'm just going to pray right now. Lord, I thank you for bringing them a refreshing and a restoration and even a resurrection of their soul, their mind of where they're at, whether they're in the gym or in a car, wherever they're listening.

B (38:38)

Ms. At. Yeah.

A (38:39)

Lord, we just thank you that, yes, their best days are in front of them.

B (38:42)

Yeah.

A (38:42)

And you are currently building the structure behind the scenes of their best days in order to hold the best days you have for them.

B (38:50)

Nice.

A (38:51)

Amen.

B (38:52)

Amen. Thanks, guys.

A (38:53)

We love you guys. We'll see you next week.

B (38:54)

Next week.

A (38:55)

Bye.

B (38:55)

Bye.