Best Days Podcast | Season 11 Episode 6

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Victory Church: Paul Daugherty
Episode: Best Days Podcast | Season 11 Episode 6
Date: April 29, 2026
Hosts: John and Arvin
Location: Victory Church Ministries, Tulsa, OK

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Episode Overview

This episode of the Best Days Podcast is a deeply reflective, behind-the-scenes exploration of the personal and collective journey of faith at Victory Church. John and Arvin dive into generational shifts in church culture, address the challenges of maintaining faith amidst institutional flaws, and discuss how to carry heavy responsibilities by daily surrendering to God. With vulnerability and humor, the hosts blend personal struggles, theological insight, and practical lessons for listeners navigating their own faith journeys.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Generational Church Culture & Faith Deconstruction

Timestamp: 00:12–08:42

• The hosts reflect on growing up in Tulsa, surrounded by Bible schools and influential churches:
  "That's why they call it Tulsa Rusalem." (A, 00:57)
• They discuss friends who were raised in the church but later left the faith, often identifying as atheists.
• Arvin offers a generational perspective:
  "You shouldn't measure what you were raised in according to how things should be, but according to what they inherited and what they solved." (B, 01:23)
• The challenges faced by previous generations (wars, societal shifts, etc.) influenced the creation of structured, clear-cut church environments, which provided relief and answers in tumultuous times.
• Modern critiques of church models often miss the context of prior cultural trauma and the needs those models were designed to address.
• The danger today is conflating the church "model" with God Himself, leading to disillusionment when structures fail.

2. Celebrity Culture in the Church & Community Expectations

Timestamp: 05:32–08:42

• The rise of "customer-first," mega-church culture brings both benefits and unrealistic expectations of personal connection and flawlessness. "Any flaw with the model of church is all of a sudden a test of the faith." (B, 06:05)
• John and Arvin note the importance of real, fallible human connection in church leadership, while still appreciating efforts to foster closeness.
• The journey of faith isn’t about returning to a static “center,” but about moving forward:
  "The Holy Spirit is not waiting for these friends of ours who have left the faith back where they came from. He’s in the future." (B, 07:10)

3. The Pain and Loyalty of Church Commitment

Timestamp: 09:00–12:36

• Quoting (possibly) Augustine:
  "The church is a whore, but she's also my mother." (A, 10:03)
  • This honest, bracing view acknowledges the church’s flaws but also its nurturing role.
• John encourages members to "stay long enough to get hurt," emphasizing that real spiritual maturity includes facing pain and disillusionment:
  "Stay long enough to get hurt, and I think that it will really help you in your walk with God." (A, 11:15)

4. Personal Growth through Discipline and Consistency

Timestamp: 12:36–13:33

• The hosts reflect on how long-term participation and investment sharpen skills, deepen conviction, and push individuals to mature:
  "It’s hard not to get better at something when you are doing it consistently and you have care and conviction." (A, 12:44)

5. Arvin’s Three Priorities and Surrender

Timestamp: 13:19–15:01

• Arvin identifies three areas of focus: family, work, and his internal spiritual life.
• He shares a guiding principle:
  "If it matters to me, I have to put it on the altar of my heart, because that's how God turns it into grace." (B, 14:50)
• Energy and grace come from surrendering what is most important to God, echoing Einstein’s equation (E=MC²) as a metaphor for the transformation of what "matters" into spiritual strength.

6. The Relationship between Love, Fear, and Surrender

Timestamp: 15:01–19:52

• Arvin vulnerably explores the interplay between his overwhelming love for his daughter and the accompanying fear of loss:
  "It's irresponsible how much I love her... I am so vulnerable." (B, 15:47)
• He disentangles the misconceptions around detachment in faith, clarifying that God doesn’t call us to care less, but to trust Him with what matters most.
• The deeper one loves, the greater the temptation to fear – unless that love is "made complete" in surrender (referencing "perfect love casts out all fear").

7. Biblical & Natural Metaphors of Surrender

Timestamp: 18:46–20:52

• The cycle of laying down what matters mirrors baptism, Abraham and Isaac, and the water cycle in nature:
  "If you don’t put it on the altar... you destroy it. If you want to save your life, let it go." (B, 19:15)
• Using vivid imagery, John compares surrender to the rain cycle and "The Circle of Life," helping listeners visualize the ongoing process of giving and receiving from God.

8. Identity, Pressure, and Letting Go

Timestamp: 21:09–26:14

• John shares his struggle as a pastor’s kid – especially after his father’s death – feeling responsible for the survival of Victory Church.
• Fear of loss and criticism translates into feelings of anger and inadequacy:
  "That pressure and that weight... is a fear that then is translated into anger." (A, 22:51)
• Even in daily tasks (like coaching or parenting), the drive to perform perfectly becomes burdensome without surrender.

9. Practical Application: ‘Putting It on the Altar’

Timestamp: 26:25–29:10

• John and Arvin emphasize the necessity of daily surrender for sustainability, using analogies from weightlifting and body care: "Whenever you care for something so much, but yet you're not putting it on the altar, it's like heavy lifting without a belt." (A, 28:31)
• Neglecting this practice leads to burnout, disillusionment, and eventually resentment toward God’s gifts.

10. Renewing the Mind and Heart Posture

Timestamp: 29:10–34:49

• Arvin draws a parallel between physical and spiritual "form":
  "Form is what determines whether you're growing... and longevity... The best thing a person can do is let the word of God change the posture of your heart." (B, 32:54)
• True transformation and joy arise from allowing God’s voice and scripture to shape inner life, making sustained service and love possible.

11. Closing Reflections & Encouragement

Timestamp: 34:51–35:51

• The episode concludes with the hope that listeners will receive "God’s energy and grace" for all that weighs heavily on their hearts.
• They return to the rain/water metaphor for a final time:
  "The king's heart is a stream of water guided by the Lord." (B, 35:33)

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Notable Quotes

"You shouldn't measure what you were raised in according to how things should be, but according to what they inherited and what they solved."
— Arvin (01:23)

"Any flaw with the model of church is all of a sudden a test of the faith."
— Arvin (06:05)

“The Holy Spirit is not waiting for these friends of ours who have left the faith back where they came from. He’s in the future.”
— Arvin (07:10)

“The church is a whore, but she's also my mother.”
— John quoting Augustine (10:03)

"Stay long enough to get hurt, and I think that it will really help you in your walk with God."
— John (11:15)

"If it matters to me, I have to put it on the altar of my heart, because that's how God turns it into grace."
— Arvin (14:50)

"It's irresponsible how much I love her... I am so vulnerable."
— Arvin (15:47)

"Whenever you care for something so much, but yet you're not putting it on the altar, it's like heavy lifting without a belt."
— John (28:31)

"The best thing a person can do is let the word of God... change the posture of your heart."
— Arvin (32:54)

"Things don’t have to be bad, but they are heavy."
— John (35:10)

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Important Timestamps

• Generational reflections & faith deconstruction: 00:12–08:42
• The model vs. the message of church: 05:32–08:42
• Honest admission of church flaws: 09:34–10:03
• Staying long enough to get hurt: 11:15
• Surrender and the altar metaphor introduced: 14:50
• Arvin’s personal battle with fear and love: 15:47
• Abraham/Isaac and the water cycle: 18:46–20:52
• John’s struggle with pressure and identity: 22:51
• Analogy of weightlifting and surrender: 28:31
• Form, posture, and spiritual sustainability: 32:54
• Final blessing and water metaphor: 35:33

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Tone & Takeaway

The episode is open, honest, and conversational, blending sincerity with humor and vulnerability. John and Arvin speak as peers and fellow travelers, inviting listeners to recognize both the beauty and brokenness in themselves, their church, and their faith history. The central call is to lay down what matters most on the altar daily, trusting God to carry the weight, transform burdens into grace, and prepare hearts for the future.

For listeners wrestling with pain, fear, or disillusionment in faith, this episode offers:

• Permission to feel, question, and hope.
• Wisdom for grounding identity beyond church models.
• Practical language and imagery for surrendering to God.
• Reassurance that complete love, not perfection, is the antidote to fear.

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Listen for: Vulnerable stories, practical theology, and encouragement to practice daily surrender as the way forward for individuals and the church as a whole.

Transcript

[A]

Hello.

[B]

Hi, guys.

[A]

Welcome back, welcome back. These are our hands and we're saying welcome to behind the scenes of our best days. My name is John.

[B]

My name is Arvin.

[A]

And this podcast is a behind the scenes look here at Victory Church Ministries in Tulsa, Oklahoma. We're recording this within towards the end of April 2026. And we just want to say thank you, guys. We also want to give a shout out to our awesome pastors, Pastor Paul and Pastor Ashley. Man, just thinking through. And I know that on the previous podcast we talked about through the 45 years, victory being around.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

You know, and then in the same conversation, we've also talked about, like, some of our close friends that we grew up with here in Tulsa, Oklahoma, across the street from. I know I'm jumping, but I'm going to come back across the street from us. So Victory has a Bible school, and then across the street from us we have Oral Roberts University.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And in this town there's multiple Bible schools. And I mean, that's why they call it Tulsa Rusalem.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

But we were also in a conversation of just close friends that grew up in the church, that grew up doing, you know, wanting to be in theology or wanting to be pastors. And they have this pureness of heart. And now today they're atheists.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Why is that?

[B]

I think there are good and bad things about that. I don't think it's good to be an atheist. I'm not saying that, but I think we've talked about this so much over the last 11 seasons of the podcast. It is not. I constantly, I had this conversation with a, I think former Christian yesterday where it's like, you grow up in this evangelical context and then you spend your, like, in this case of this individual, like 0 to 18, you were just in church every day, and then 18 to 30, you're not in church anymore, or 22 to 30, after you leave your Christian university, you're like, I don't want to be around this anymore. You start throwing the word cult around, whatever. And then it's like, I'm living in the overcompensation of what I was raised in. That was a bubble. So now I'm gonna go whatever. And then you kind of level out when you get older and have kids, maybe, hopefully, if that even happens. But what I found interesting and what I shared with this person that I think I've said on this podcast often is you shouldn't measure what you were raised in according to, like, how things should Be. Because that's just. You're always going to be angry and upset. Measure it according to what they inherited, the problems they inherited and what they solved. And then what they. So I was talking with this friend

[A]

about, yeah, break that down. What does that mean?

[B]

Just look at the church in the global church in the 60s and 70s, okay? If you just zoom in on the west, we just talk about the Western church. Zoom in on the 60s and 70s for a while and go, this was the environment that these people were in. We had hippie culture. Television was starting to take off as the medium of the day. Information was starting to become mainstream. And then all of a sudden, the church movements were happening. The Jesus revolution was happening. And so if you picture, like, people who grew up in strange environments where parenting was kind of different, we're also talking about people who were survivors of World War II. Yeah. Veterans of World War II, veterans of the Vietnam War, that whole experience as a country. And then before that, you have the Great Depression and you have World War I. And so it's like, generationally, what was happening to the nervous system of everybody involved. We didn't even have the terminology for it yet. So then bring that to the church. And I won't get long winded about this, even though I've been talking about it for six years. If you think about that, and you think about the environment that Oral Roberts showed up into, and you think about the environment that Billy Joe and Sharon pastors, Billy Jones, Pastor Sharon, showed up into, like, that was a relief, a breath of fresh air for the era that it was in. The world was in this strange place. And then the church that pulled up. So you can look with judgment at that era and not your parents. But I mean, in general, like, evangelical structure, you can look at Bill Hybels and Willow Creek, you can look at all the things that popped up, the hillsongs of the world and everything. And you can sit there and point at it and be like, man, I can't believe you guys. The greeter in the lobby. Or, why do you guys spend money on this? And why are. You know.

[A]

And why do you guys have a tap to pay on?

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I saw that crap. Yeah, absolutely. I was bummed that that article had poor writing. That's a whole other thing. But I was like, man, I wish that you'd actually had some good critiques. I was excited about it. But all that to say, you look at what they inherited. These, like, folks coming out of drugs, folks coming out of free love and People having sex with all types of people when they figured out that AIDS was a thing like, that is traumatic. And so the church became this place where it felt really good to hand people a binary structure of black and white, right and wrong. It felt relieving. It felt like fresh water to be like, okay, good. So this is what's right and this is what's wrong. Because they had come out of things where it's like, everything's right. And you're like, actually, everything's wrong. Yes. That's where the.

[A]

So what you're talking about is inheriting that.

[B]

And now and then they made it what we got to grow up in, which was this bubble of right and wrong, black and white. And then that solved a lot of problems for us. Like, I don't know many people my age that have a drug problem or an alcohol problem. And if you do, I'm. There's a lot of opportunities to get help.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

What it came into then is it turned into. We talked about the Starbucks version of church, which is wonderful.

[A]

Like, customer first church. Absolutely.

[B]

I think that was wonderful. And you see how Hillsong did it. We see what Elevation's doing. You see what any mega church is doing. I applaud it and appreciate it. However, it's so nice that people are tempted to subconsciously think the model of church that I'm in, that is God. And so when. So they're.

[A]

So. They're basically treating the model as like, yeah, okay.

[B]

Any flaw with the model of church is all of a sudden a test of the faith. And it's like, oh, God, I can't believe that this. My Pastor, who pastors 17,000 people, doesn't know my grandson's name. I'm upset. You know, it's like. You know what I mean?

[A]

Stuff like that.

[B]

They want that. Yeah. Which thankfully, in our situation, we have a very different situation that I'm really grateful for, where Pastor Paul is, like, very often in the lobby talking to

[A]

people, knows people, but he does miss it sometimes because he's a human.

[B]

Well, how's he gonna remember anyway? I'm shocked at what he is capable of remembering. But the expectation of this celebrity culture, parasocial relationships in your life, and television viewing and apps and TikTok and everything, you bring that to your mega church and you're like, well, I want to be. Anyways. There's a lot of psychological things to it. All I'm saying is I applaud what your parents generation inherited and what they turned it into. And now I'm Thinking of what we're inheriting, church wise and in terms of the faith at large. And I'm going, what are we going? How are we going to solve those problems? And how are we going to. This is where it comes full circle to the friends of ours who are Christian atheists or atheists. I find it fascinating. I think that God in his wisdom has. And this is a pattern you see in the Old Testament, he has enabled people to step away from something that's like mainstream Zeitgeist Christian and Christian church in the West. And what we would want them to do initially is, oh, I want them to come back to the faith. But what I've come to understand lately is the faith is actually not back anywhere. Because if you say it that way, what you're implying is the. There's this solid thing called Christianity, and it's inside the bubble of Tulsa Evangelicalism or Colorado Springs or now Nashville is the new one. And it's like the faith is just like a stone. Similar in Islam. There's like a Kaaba in Mecca and you have to pilgrimage to it. Yes. That's not the case in Christianity. The Holy Spirit is not waiting for these friends of ours who have left the faith back where they came from. He's in the future. Yeah. And so that's when in John 14, 15, 16, Jesus says, the Holy Spirit will tell you about the future. And I don't think that's him being like, hey, there's gonna be a goose flying over there, so just park your car somewhere else. Cause it's gonna poop on your car. It's not like that. It's more so these friends that have left, they left certain patterns, certain new problems that the church in the west had created in their effort to solve the problems that they inherited. And what they're gonna step into in the future is what we're gonna create.

[A]

I like that.

[B]

That's what I.

[A]

We're gonna step into. The future is based on what we're going to create.

[B]

Yeah. And they will come. I think they will. Because the old hymn is true. All other ground is sinking sand.

[A]

All other ground is sinking sand. Yeah, yeah, yeah, man. That's so. And I think that that's what this podcast, the. The reason.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

No, don't be sorry. I think that they needed of you guys listening and watching. I think that it's good for us to hear this. It just reinforces why we're doing what we're doing. And maybe you are listening to this and you have had doubts about God because of something that you inherited or the model that. Maybe you're thinking of a certain model of church which is not God. But it doesn't mean that church meeting up at a local church is wrong. It's actually necessary.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

You just have to know that it is very flawed. There is a certain. Now what I'm getting ready to say is an intense quote, but it is from. It could be St. Francis of Assisi, or it could be Dietrich Bonhoeffer, basically a famous theologian said this. The church is a whore, but she's also my mother.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it was Augustine.

[A]

Oh, see?

[B]

One of those guys.

[A]

One of those guys.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But whenever I heard that quote, the church is the whore, but also my mother, I was like, yeah, yeah. Because. Yes, absolutely. And that doesn't mean that God is that, but that means that humanity in the model that they make it in based on the year or whatever. And what I love is I think that a great person of faith goes, you know what? I am committed to this place because God has not told me to leave yet. Yeah, that is huge.

[B]

That's a big deal.

[A]

I truthfully believe that when it comes to church, what I have communicated to people is I've said, hey, you know, whenever someone's like, hey, you know, we're at Victory now, and da, da, da, da. And so they're like, so where should we get involved? Or we're trying to do this. And this is an awkward thing, but I break the silence. I go, hey, guys, while you're here, stay long enough to get hurt, because then you'll understand what it means to be called to a church. And I said, so stay long enough to get hurt. And I think that it will really help you in your walk with God, regardless where you end up. If you're at Victory for a season. Season, or, you know, for a lifetime, like, regardless.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so anyways, so I. I love talking to that. I love. I love, like, you know, I'm so grateful for the local church.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's so funny because I re. I resented it so much as a kid.

[B]

Sure, sure.

[A]

You know, sure. But anyways, and I. And this being in season 11 of this behind the scenes podcast and going back and kind of listening to things, you know, I was like, wow, I'm so grateful that you and me have grown as individuals, as friends, as hopefully as writers and creators. You know, I feel like it's gotten. It's got. The tools have been sharpening. It's hard. It's hard not to get better at something when you are doing it consistently and you, and you have care and conviction and you're like, oh, I'm doing this for, for more people than just me. Whatever that thing is, you know, whether it's being a parent, owning a business or writing or, you know, you know, being a worship leader or being a pastor or working for a non profit, whatever it is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think that it is hard to become bad at something unless you just stop caring.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah. You know, especially if you're like, I'm going to be consistent and I have a strong conviction about what I'm doing and I feel like I'm doing it, you know, for the kingdom of God, that whole type of a thing. One thing that we were talking about before this podcast started was, man, you know, Arvin, you were mentioning. Okay, the three things that I'm focusing on right now is I'm gonna let you fill them.

[B]

Sure, sure, sure. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And this is going to springboard into what we kind of are talking about and even in organizational structure here, like here at Victory.

[B]

Totally. So I had met up with a friend and they asked me like, is your life super busy now? And I was like, it's not. I don't consider it that way. I have less things to focus on. But each thing that I focus on is I'm giving a lot of myself to that thing.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So first and foremost, there is my life at home with my family, my wife who's a therapist, and our four month old daughter Lila. And then there's the work I do here and the long term view I have of Right now we're working on Christmas 26, Easter 27. Focusing on. Yeah, absolutely. And thinking about what, how to make those things the best shows that have ever happened here. And then outside of that, I have my internal world, my relationship with God, etc. Etc. So there's three things that get all of my attention all the time. And you know, in advancing all of them and giving them to the Lord, the thing that I don't know if we talked about it. Was it episode one of this podcast this season or last? I don't remember. But the thing that has constantly been on my mind that I need to consistently return to, the thing that my mind is said to, is this idea that if it matters to me, if anything matters to me, I have to present it to God on the altar of my heart. And that is how it turns into energy and grace for me to continue.

[A]

Hold on, let's just repeat what he just said. And I want you guys to think back that. So everyone who's listening on 1.5, go back to zero. Go back to 1.0 and say that again.

[B]

If it matters to me.

[A]

If it matters to me, I have

[B]

to put it on the altar of my heart.

[A]

I gotta put it on the altar of my heart.

[B]

Because that's how God turns it into grace.

[A]

Because that's how God turns it into grace.

[B]

So there's this scientific thing. It's beautiful that Einstein figured out that E equals MC squared, matter and energy are interchangeable. And so matter, meaning, like, mass, things that actually are tangible, like whatever. But I've understood that as, like, if something matters to me.

[A]

Oh, I get it.

[B]

Double on. Yeah, exactly. And so when Jesus says. It came from this understanding that Jesus said, my yoke is easy. My burden is light. And then I'm looking at all the stuff that I care about, and I'm like, this doesn't feel light. And I'm also not, thankfully. I'm not talking about making an idol out of a thing or making something more important than it should be. I'm talking, like, parenting a child.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It matters to me so much. I love my daughter so much. It's irresponsible how much I love her. I cannot afford to love someone this much. I'm, like, looking at the world that we're in and everything that's going wrong with it and being like, I cannot. It is so irresponsible to love a human being as much as I love this person. I am so vulnerable. I cry every day. And so that feeling of how much it matters to me, that's not wrong for it to matter. Sometimes I think people have this idea that when you get into the faith, you should care less about things. You should care less about your life. And I understand the thought.

[A]

I get that thought. But it's not like, give a crap.

[B]

It is a misunderstanding of what the essence of what Jesus was saying.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

What he's saying is it's. I'm. It's great that you care so much about your career, you care so much about your kids, you care so much about yourself, your health, whatever. Don't make those things an idol, because that's how you destroy them.

[A]

Ooh. Don't make those things in idol.

[B]

Right. So when he says, like, build your house on the rock, not the sand, it's because he doesn't want your house to fall. Yes. Some people will be like, well, you

[A]

know, but that's a good revelation.

[B]

That's a good revelation. Absolutely. So all that to say. I've come to understand that the more important it is to me, the more important it is that I give it to God. And I consecrate Lila and my family every day and the work that we do here and my approach to life and dreams, because otherwise I can't survive. And I've realized that at this point in my life, the most tangible thing that is like a tab, an open tab in my mind all the time is this constant seething stream of anger. I feel this constant anger. And no one would know me as an angry person because I do not express that to people, but I feel it. And I've investigated enough to go beneath that anger. Anger makes you feel like you have control, but really it's just fear. It's the fear of, oh, what if I lose this? Oh, what if I, you know, and this is a thing, a reason why every individual who is trusting God for their God given destiny in life, you really need whatever season he puts you in to prepare you. Because if he hands you everything you want, the fear of losing it will crush you and it'll destroy. You're gonna build a house on a sand. That's exactly right. And you're gonna be the one that ends up destroying the very thing that you wanted so badly. And so as I investigate that, I'm going, okay, Lord, your word says perfect love casts out all fear. And that's the structure I'm wrestling with. And so now I'm coming to understand when the Bible says perfect and people can fact check me on this, there's another scripture where he says God has perfected those he is making holy. Yes. And so. But other translations of the word perfect there mean he has made complete. Yeah. So if we say perfect love casts out all fear, I'm taking like complete, complete love. So if. If the love I feel for my daughter is inspiring the fear that I feel that something might go wrong or that I might do something wrong, the love is incomplete. And so to make it full circle, it has to be granted, there is a cycle. I'm jumping all over the place today.

[A]

No, but you're. I mean, I mean to even jump even more back is in Abraham and Isaac putting your daughter on the altar.

[B]

On the altar. Exactly. And this thought of like, if you look at the way that nature intertwines with scripture is beautiful because water goes through this cycle. Like it evaporates, goes up, turns into clouds, and then it rains and comes back down. And. And as it does so it, like, takes care of the earth. We all drink it. It's a pretty wonderful cycle. That's the same thing with our.

[A]

The things you deeply care about, what

[B]

you care about the most if you don't put it on the altar. When Jesus said, if you want to save your life, let it go. Yes. I don't think he's saying, leave your doors unlocked at night and just see what happens.

[A]

For those who want to lose your life, keep it, save your life, lose it.

[B]

Exactly. He's teaching us in that moment, the cycle that we're supposed to operate in, which is an intimate intertwining of your soul and God's heart in that it matters to you. So you put it on the altar. The presence of God is a consuming fire that then lifts that up. It turns what matters into energy so you can pursue.

[A]

So it goes back to that rain, precipitation.

[B]

That's the parallel of the innation, which is, I think, such a beautiful concept.

[A]

Yeah. It's a good mental imagery, especially for people like me that need a picture to go with, what am I feeling right now? Or what is God trying to say? I actually, God has to talk to me like a dum dum through a picture book.

[B]

You know, papa be like John.

[A]

So. But that helps me, John Doherty, to see that image, to put it on the altar. And it become almost like, you know, when Mufasa, he's like. He's like the. The lion eat the antelope. The antelope becomes grass. The grass then becomes this.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And he's just like. And that is the circle of life.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

But it's the. It's that whole cyclical of the rain. That's how nature works. And God created that. Come on. Genesis.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Well. And so something that he taught.

[B]

And I don't know those of you

[A]

guys who are listening, if you guys caught this, but he was saying, oh, man. As he is backtracked and done internal investigation, he has noticed that his anger is based in fear.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, I know for me, you know, a fear thing that I. And I've said this on. I'm not bearing my soul a whole lot right now. Like, I. You guys probably know this, but something that has made me angry is when anyone, you know, bashes, talks against, or leaves victory. My initial anger is based out of fear, and it is also based out of like. And me and Arvin have talked about this a lot, so I'm not saying anything new, but it is separating John's identity from victory. You know, because it is unique that whenever there is being a pastor's kid, when you grow up in it, some pastor's kids resent it. And I think I actually did early on in life. And then this sounds crazy, but when my dad died, I actually fell back in love with the church. And I felt this, like, again, yoke is easy, burden is light type of a thing, but I felt this heavy burden about, like, Victory's gonna close its doors if I don't step my butt up and get involved in Victory and do all that I can to make sure that Victory doesn't close its doors and that we're able to pay well. That pressure and that weight, it, of course, that is a fear that then is translated into anger. Whenever I see someone and I'm like, hey, how are you? And I don't want to ask them if they've left Victory because I know that I have not seen them in a few months, because if they say it, it could ruin my weekend being like, oh, they left because we suck, and it's not. And then I'm angry at myself, and I'm angry that we didn't do enough. And I'm angry at them, you know, because I'm like, if they had any idea what we do to sacrifice for them. And you know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so that fear, it is in all of us. But I just shared you guys my personal thing. And, yeah, it's funny, because another thing that I've noticed is I'm someone who loves to keep my word, even. Even when it hurts. Like, I've even said that I'm like, I want to keep my word. And so there are times whenever I feel like most of the times whenever I'm. Especially in the afternoons here, when I am going out to coach and I am leaving a meeting and I interact with someone in the hallway, they go, john, how are you?

[B]

I go,

[A]

I'm good. I'm grateful. I'm happy. And there. And it's funny. This girl, she's been in our production before. She serves in by Jesse Rivera. Love her. She's awesome. She goes, oh, well, it doesn't sound like you're grateful or happy or. And I'm like, jesse, don't judge me.

[B]

You just take off sprinting.

[A]

She's like, well, yeah. And she said. She goes, yeah, okay. Well, just every time I see you in the hallway around this time, you're always giving this big, you know, breath of carbon dioxide.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was like, well, I'm getting ready to coach about 40 or 50 kids. And I got to make sure that they're locked in. And if they're not locked in, then I'm not doing a good job. And if I don't do a good job, then they won't like Victory and then they'll, you know, it is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't say that because I'm going to sound like a crazy person, but that's where my brain goes.

[B]

Sure, sure, sure. Yeah.

[A]

And yesterday when she said that and I was like, you know what? I don't want to always exasperate. Just carrying the burden, carrying the yoke.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Should be two cattles, but it's just me.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, right.

[A]

You know, all of those, like, tinge of frustrations. I think it's good. That is the behind the scenes of. That's the behind the scenes of John.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But that's also what it's like here at Victory. So I'm like, you know what? I think that I'm bringing this upon myself and like what Arvin said, putting it on the altar or when I. My kids, I, you know, my three kids are in three different sports practices that. That they have to be at different locations immediately after my work. And then I'm getting home late and I have to feed them dinner. So it's like we're stopping at a drive through, but I'm like, trying to get a healthy option. I'm like, guys, we're gonna get grilled nuggets at Chick Fil A. And they're like, never mind, we won't eat. And I'm like, well, you have fine, you know.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Give us the, you know, the unhealthy stuff, whatever. Just. And by the time I'm getting home, I'm like, tomorrow I'm gonna do this all over again.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's parts of it where I'm all about, like, I'm all about keeping my word. I'm all about discipline. But then I'm like, there has to be a better way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think as. As we're talking to this podcast today, it is just me behind the scenes. Not in front of people, but behind the scenes.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Just putting those things on the altar every single day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Those of you guys listening, do you know what I'm talking about? Like, yeah. And then it becoming that rain cycle that Arvin said.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Being like, the blessings go up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then they come down.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. You know. All right. Right.

[A]

The prices go up. Blessings, whatever.

[B]

That song is absolutely right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, this is probably the most behind the scenes concept we could ever show people in the history of this podcast. The idea that God grants a human being something so wonderful, and the assumption is because it's so wonderful with the God, the gift of God, the opportunity of God, the place that victory is, then it must be easy to interact with. And that is not true at all

[A]

because it can be crushing.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

It's like. Okay, if any of you guys worked out. Sorry I interrupted. No, I want you to also finish.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So like, if you guys have ever lifted. If you're old like me, old and crotchety, like I'm on. I'm on that fish oil game. Yeah, I'm thinking about them peptides. BPC157. If y' all don't know what that is, it's not drugs, it's legal, but it basically, you can go hard in a workout and then take these peptides and the next day you feel great and not sore. Be able to. Anyways, sorry, that's not what we're talking about. Yeah, but if you guys want to support the podcast.

[B]

Yeah, please.

[A]

But what I was saying, if you've ever worked out and if you've ever used knee wraps on squatting or knee sleeves, they help you squat more weight, help you go deeper, and then they. You just feel embraced and you know, with a weight belt, it helps you brace that core. Like whenever you're getting ready to do heavy weight, it's. For me, I have to have all

[B]

that stuff on for sure. Absolutely.

[A]

If I don't, I'm like, like, it hurts. I've pulled muscles, I've thrown out my back before, done all those types of things. You know, it's kind of like when what you were saying is whenever you care for something so much, you know, but yet you're not putting it on the altar. It's like heavy lifting without a belt. Without the knee.

[B]

Yeah. Without warming up.

[A]

Without warming up. Yes. You can try it and you probably could do it, but you may throw your back out, you may hurt yourself,

[B]

and you definitely won't enjoy it.

[A]

You won't enjoy it, and then you soon stop showing up to the gym.

[B]

Yeah. And you'll resent God forever giving you the good thing in the first place. Sorry. Yeah, no, no, I'm with you exactly right. That's it. Yeah. It's this idea that we do in fact, need God to. There's a scripture in Psalm 27 where David says, teach me how to live O Lord. And he's already a king, and he's already, like, doing all this. And you think that.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Once David became king, he doesn't have awesome. You know, besides Bathsheba, he. Aight.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. It's like, oh, that wonderful thing. And it's.

[A]

It's.

[B]

There's something real sweet. And I don't know if it's childish or childlike. I don't know. One's good, one's bad. But you picture this wonderful destiny of God for your life, whether it's in ministry or whatever, whatever success looks like being a really good mom. That's probably the most important thing I can think of. Yeah. And you picture it and you imagine that arriving at that scene season or that moment, you will lack all the things that plague you today. And you don't realize that people tend to misunderstand the preparation of God.

[A]

They don't even.

[B]

They think, why, like, I'm going through this season. I'm not who I want to be. I'm not known for what I want to be known for. I'm not getting to do the things I want to do, whatever it may be. And God is working on, like, uninstalling and removing those things that are like little briar patches or whatever. You know when you get.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Like stickers.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. You get when you're playing out in

[A]

the woods, you've just got.

[B]

You've got those things that. To the point where your skin has grown over them. And God is doing the work of surgically just from like, hey, I don't want this at scale. This problem of insecurity you have when you. No one knows who you are that will scale when you're in your destiny and it will ruin. It's the whole wheat and weeds idea. And so it's like, the better thing to do is let's prevent the weeds from being planted. Let's prevent this from happening. So people misunderstand that when God is working on their soul, it's like, oh, I'm not good enough, or I'm being punished. And it's like, no, this is confirmation that you are called to something wonderful. And it's not just about fame and fortune. It's called to the version of yourself God has in mind. And he is patiently. Just like, I want to work on this with you because I also want to see that happen. I want that house to be built on the rock, and I want it to be completely capable of taking as much water and as much rain and Floods. And I want it to be big enough that other people can come, too, so that when other people's houses who are built on sand go crashing. You're not making a TMZ Julie Roy's video of. Look at how much that house crashed. That's disgusting. Look what happened at this church. No, no, no, no. This is the place where you can come. Hey, we got a room. We have a guest house. And that's built on the rock, too. And that's what Victory's been. And so the whole point being, any individual, myself included, I should make it just real personal so I don't speak real vague and broad. I am in the process. I'm not an expert on this. Yeah. Where I am constantly taking the things that matter most to me, me, to the deepest part of my heart, the altar of my heart, and going, lord, this has to be yours. It has to be yours. And if it's not, it's going to crush me. Because you're talking about the weightlifting idea. I have come to understand that if more science, more pseudoscience. I guess when the. When you read scripture and scripture says, renew your mind with scripture, what that does, what the voice of God in his Word does, is it changes the posture of your heart.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And posture is another word for form.

[A]

And you and I. Yeah, you're right.

[B]

And you and I know when you're lifting weights, form is what determines whether you're growing, gaining muscle, burning calories, doing well and longevity and able to continue and sustainable versus if you get poor form. Like, to this day, I have trouble squatting. I tried yesterday and I had to stop after like eight attempts on very low weight because there was one time that I was casual about the form I had, and I went to put the squat back on, and I was squatting with someone a little shorter than me. So we put the things lower. And so I was like, I can just like kind of. And it just like my lower back. Oh, gosh, it's been a problem. So all that to say, the best thing a person can do is let the word of God, what he speaks to you. And through his word and through the local church and through the drama of your life and everything going on, enable that to actually change your posture, the posture of your heart, so that the process by which you consistently take what matters to you to the Lord and where his consuming fire presence takes place, that process can happen more automatically. And then you're sustainable. You can enjoy it. You're actually getting endorphins, spiritual endorphins. From the process of doing life with God. Otherwise there's no real way to proceed and enjoy family and love people who are flawed and be a hospital for the broken and all you just. You're not going to sustain on adrenaline and performance and brand identity. It's not going to work. It really needs to be this ground up God given posture of the heart that enables you to steward his voice correctly and experience the energy and grace that comes from trusting him.

[A]

Amen. I agree.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So those of you who are listening and watching, we pray for God's energy and grace to come to you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

As you look at those things that you deeply care about and without. Without letting them crush you.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Even though they're not bad things, but they are heavy things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Things don't have to be, you know, bad, but they are heavy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is where the Holy Spirit comes in. This is where we put it on the altar.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Of our heart.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the complete love will cast out that fear. It'll turn that rain.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, into. Well, you guys know what I'm saying?

[B]

I actually forget what I was. No, I know how to land this. It's Proverbs. It says, the king's heart is a stream of water guided by the Lord. He directs it wherever he pleases. That's the. The water metaphor.

[A]

That's the water metaphor.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, hey, we hope you enjoyed today and we look forward to seeing you next week. Thank you so much. We love you.

[B]

Enjoy. See you.

[A]

Bye.