Best Days Podcast | Season 11 Finale

Summary

Victory Church: Paul Daugherty
Best Days Podcast | Season 11 Finale (May 27, 2026)

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Episode Overview

In the Season 11 finale of the Best Days Podcast, hosts John, Arvin, and guest discuss life behind the scenes at Victory Church. They reflect on personal growth, the nature of authenticity, the pressures of performance (within and outside church culture), and creative stewardship. The episode is candid, humorous, and insightful, encouraging listeners to embrace their true selves and trust in God’s timing, whether in ministry, personal life, or creative endeavors.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reflecting on Season 11 and Tulsa Upbringing

• The hosts open with nostalgia about Tulsa radio stations and childhood memories, setting a laid-back, conversational tone.
• There’s humor and playful banter, including jokes about “loyal listeners cards” and quirky moments from their youth.
• Notable Quote:
  • “If you've made it, Season 11... you would have been gone by now if you weren’t loyal.” (00:31, John/Arvin)

2. Behind the Scenes at Victory Church and Spring’s “Maycember”

• Discussion about the busy church calendar: new series, Bible college ending, group launches, park openings, camps, and Dream Center activities.
• The hosts share the collective feeling of relief as the “Maycember” season ends, hoping for a breather over summer.
• Notable Quote:
  • “Let’s just all breathe and say, thank you, Jesus, that it’s coming to an end. Not in a bad way.” (04:06, John)

3. The Habit of Self-Deprecation and People-Pleasing (04:27–11:00)

• The hosts discuss the tendency (especially in “the buckle of the Bible Belt”) to downplay compliments or successes, a pattern they call self-deprecation.
• Examples:
  • Downplaying compliments about clothes, achievements, sermons, etc., to not appear “better than” others.
• Delving into deeper reasons for this habit—shame, performing to be liked, and the cycle of affirmation vs. authenticity.
• Quotes & Moments:
  • “That’s the problem with talented people. If they put up a projected image of themselves and you affirm that image, it creates a cycle of self-hatred…” (08:08, Arvin)
  • “You liked the version I created for you, not the real me.” (08:36, Arvin)
  • “No one was asking me to do that. It's just something the devil wants people to do… There's this self-hatred thing going on.” (10:05, Arvin)

4. Becoming Comfortable with Authenticity (11:13–19:00)

• As the hosts mature, they recognize the freedom and joy in being genuine, both in church spaces and everyday interactions.
• Arvin shares about disconnecting identity from performance, and the contentment of everyday, un-performed interactions.
• Illustrative Stories:
  • John’s humorous and honest story about talking out loud to himself in Whole Foods and nearly fibbing to save face when recognized. (12:10–14:44)
  • Arvin describes random public encounters and the tension between being polite, avoiding awkwardness, and the temptation to “perform.” (16:49–18:07)
• Key Insight:
  • The “permission slip” analogy: You’re allowed to be yourself—quirks, mistakes, and all.
  • “There are so few people who are at peace with being themselves. Permission to be themselves.” (18:28, Arvin)

5. The Importance of a Healthy Self-Concept (19:44–24:30)

• The group discusses how spiritual growth and life experience can break the compulsions to perform or self-deprecate.
• John shares a counseling story about helping someone challenge ingrained beliefs of unworthiness.
• Quote:
  • “It is important that you begin to write down what you believe that you are and change that narrative.” (23:38, John)
• The biblical references: King Agrippa “thinking himself happy”, David shifting his narrative in the Psalms.

6. Stewardship, Succession, and Raising Others Up (24:31–29:16)

• Discussing the importance of training successors in creative ministry (“Who is your plus one?”).
• Reflecting on how Victory’s unique approach to church productions requires intentional craft and spiritual sensitivity.
• The necessity of raising up new leaders to continue the work.

7. Craft, Magic, and the Anointing (29:17–33:48)

• Distinguishing between hard work (“craft”) and the intangible “magic” (God’s presence/anointing) in creative ministry.
• Reference to Jack Antonoff and Mike Birbiglia’s “craft/magic” conversation.
• Warning against ego and the dangers when one tries to manufacture spiritual “magic” by human effort.
• Quotes:
  • “If you have God constantly showing up and breathing his spirit into what you’ve been working on as a craftsperson…a lot of people will credit the craftsperson with the magic.” (30:40, Arvin)
  • “If it flows through you it’s wonderful—if it stops at you, it’s going to crush you.” (33:41, Arvin)

8. Failure, Perspective, and Creative Growth (33:48–36:33)

• How to deal with failure or projects that don’t turn out well (“This was someone’s dream or vision, and it was...bad.”).
• Encouraging listeners to see their creative work as part of a growth process rather than a one-time verdict on talent.
• Quote:
  • “If God’s in it, he has something for someone who’s listening or watching.” (36:00, Arvin)

9. Stewarding “Right Now” and Letting Go of People-Pleasing (37:53–40:14)

• Using a farming metaphor, the hosts discuss being faithful with current opportunities and trusting God’s timing for future “harvests”.
• Comparison of plans (3-year, 5-year, etc.) to the reality of divine timing—“a man makes a plan and God laughs.”
• Final Challenge:
  • “While you’re in right now, don’t water yourself down. Don’t self-deprecate.” (40:01, John)
  • “The next time you feel that urge, I want you to think of us…It’ll be awesome. Just be that guy or that girl.” (40:08, John)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “That is so deep. That’s my theory…But that’s the whole term that we’ve always said: everyone has a behind the scenes.” (09:17, John)
• “There’s so few people who are at peace with being themselves. Permission to be themselves.” (18:28, Arvin)
• “You have permission to be yourself.” (18:45, John)
• “God created you with everything that you need.” (23:27, John)
• “If it flows through you, it’s wonderful; if it stops at you, it’s going to crush you.” (33:41, Arvin)
• “While you’re in right now, don’t water yourself down. Don’t self-deprecate…” (40:01, John)

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Important Timestamps

• Compliment Downplaying / Self-Deprecation: 04:59–11:00
• Authenticity & Personal Growth: 11:13–19:00
• Permission Slip Analogy & Embracing Self: 18:40–19:29
• Healthy Self-Concept/Changing the Narrative: 23:28–24:30
• Succession & Creative Process: 24:49–29:16
• Craft vs. Anointing (“Magic”): 29:17–33:48
• Perspective on Failure & Creative Cycles: 33:48–37:53
• Stewarding the Present & Letting Go: 37:53–40:14

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Closing Message

The episode ends with a heartfelt challenge: as you finish this season or your current chapter, don’t shrink yourself or dismiss your value. Embrace the version of yourself God created, steward today’s opportunities, and let go of the pressure to perform or please. “We love you, thanks for listening, and we’ll see you next time.”

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Useful for anyone wanting to hear honest conversation about ministry, creativity, authenticity, and growth, all rooted in faith and everyday experience.

Transcript

[A]

Hello. Welcome back, everybody.

[B]

My name is John.

[A]

My name is Arvin.

[B]

This is behind the scenes of our best days. Season 11, our final episode.

[A]

We made it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You guys want to have some ASMR of me drinking my electrolytes?

[A]

Listen to some water? The audio drivers right now, people are gonna go sicko. What is going on?

[B]

They're going to follow you guys.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I refuse to.

[B]

But this is our final.

[A]

People are that fickle. They will.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And that's okay.

[A]

But not our listeners.

[B]

But not our listeners.

[A]

You would have been gone by now if you made it this far. If you've made it. Season 11.

[B]

105.3.

[C]

Uh huh. Oh, yeah.

[B]

105.3. In Tulsa, growing up, there's a radio station.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So like the top 40 hits were 106.9 hits.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

92.1.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

A long time.

[A]

Totally. I remember that.

[B]

105.3 was basically BET.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Slow jams, but like.

[B]

And rap.

[A]

Oh, sure.

[B]

Hip hop.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

But it was, it was BET radio.

[A]

Yeah, that's right.

[B]

And on Sundays they would Sunday night slow jams, but Sunday morning they would play gospel.

[A]

Oh, beautiful. Okay, great.

[B]

And so you have John P. Key, Fred Hammond. And then like within an hour you would have like.

[A]

Yeah. Then they would do the, the call ins. Do you remember that? I would listen, this is how I grew up, where I would have my headphones in late at night, Sunday night. And then they'd be like, I just want to say hello to my baby, you know? And then they'd say a name, whatever. I don't want to reenact it. And it was like, which R. Kelly song do you want?

[B]

Yes, exactly.

[A]

It wasn't what song. It was which of these R. Kelly songs.

[B]

Yes. Rest in peace,

[A]

R. Kelly. Thank you for watching, bro. We're praying for you.

[B]

I hope you're doing well.

[A]

All of his victims too. All of your survivors. This is last episode energy.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

It's like the last day of school. You get more crazy.

[B]

Of course. We're recording this on the last day of school for our Christian school here at Victory. I do want to let you guys know, we are Christians.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Anyways, we do love the Lord.

[A]

Shout out to the Lord.

[B]

Shout out to the God. But anyways, on 105.3, they would say, do you have your loyal listeners card? And the people on the phone who call in to request, they would go, your long distance card. And they would say, no, no, no. Your loyal listeners card. And it was just a thing. And it was Ingrained in my memory.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And so those of you guys who are our loyal listeners.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Make sure you get your loyal listeners card.

[A]

Yeah. We should make some. And pass them out.

[B]

Yeah, and pass them out.

[A]

Little lanyards. I feel like such a loser. There'd just be a box of them in my back of my car.

[B]

And. Yeah. And we go. Thank you so much. But this is a behind the scenes podcast.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

If it's your first time listening or joining us, we do all the behind the scenes talk of the ministry here at Victory.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

We are getting out of our spring season, which actually is a lot. They call it Maycember. And I know I brought this up the last episode, but just trying to finish everything because of the Bible college ending. And then we're also. We started. We always started a new series. And Pastor Paul's in this new series of David and vcs. And then we also are launching our groups. In the summer, we opened up Victory park, which is on our property, which is a place where families can gather. And it backs up to Victory College housing. But we also are getting ready for camps at the Dream center and Camp Victory. And just a lot of things going on. And you feel a little zany.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Like, please don't let me drop any balls, Lord. And then also you're like, don't let me lose my mind.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And. But anyways, all of that to say, let's just all breathe and just say, thank you, Jesus, that it's coming to an end. Thank you, Jesus. Not in a bad way.

[A]

No, sure.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Hopefully a breather in the summer.

[B]

Yes, a breather.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But one thing that we for sure wanted to talk about is, okay, this is something that we have realized with. In this. The buckle of the Bible belt in Tulsa and in these areas of the central states, whenever you are. Have you ever or have you ever encountered someone that waters themselves down to make the other person feel good?

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Self deprecation.

[B]

Self deprecation. And you think that you're doing it because you're a good person. Let me do some examples. Like you encounter someone at church or at work or maybe in the coffee shop and you go, hey, I really like your jacket. And then you say, ah, this old.

[A]

Right, right, right.

[B]

This old thing. I got it on sales at Marshalls.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And the guy that wore it was once. He passed away in the war. So there's a hole. There's a bullet hole inside. And I only got it for 14 pennies.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But it's like a really nice jacket.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And it's okay to say that you spent money on a jacket.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

Or if someone goes, hey, I really like your shoes. And you're like, oh, well, you know, I got them on sale. There's something innately in us.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That we want to self deprecate.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That way.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

The person who says a compliment to us.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That we don't think. We want them to think that. That we don't think that we're better than them.

[A]

That's right.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Or someone goes, hey, I like your haircut. Oh, thank you. I mean, they kind of messed up a little bit and it's like, yeah. Why does everyone have to kind of mess up? Everything that you get has to be on sale.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[B]

Do you guys ever. Okay, here's the honest question. Have you guys ever said that?

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Have you watered yourself down?

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Or have you ever experienced.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

You know, I was telling Arvin the other day, like whenever we would go to a, you know, if there was ever a conference and there'd be a, A moment where you encounter someone, whether it's at a conference or something, and they would just downplay something.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Especially if you, Even if you were to meet a. A guest speaker, they would, hey, that was an incredible word. What an awesome sermon. It's okay to say, yeah, thank you. I actually worked really hard on it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then. But sometimes the feedback would be, oh, man. I just didn't know what to speak. You know, like, God moved. But it's okay to say. I actually spent 30 hours, 40 hours on this sermon and I tried really, really hard. And then I prayed a lot and God came through and I did preach a good sermon.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But no one says that.

[A]

That's right. It's like, not around here.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Do you guys experience that? I don't know. It might be.

[A]

No, I think that's pretty normal. I have a theory about this.

[B]

And do you think it's only people who call themselves Christians or do you think.

[A]

No, I see it all the time. I think if you're. If your motivation for buying the jacket or the shoes or the sermon or whatever you're. If your motive is. If I get that I will be more valuable as a person. If, like there's any crumb of identity in there, then when someone calls out the thing that's not who you are, but as though it were you and says, oh, that's awesome. There's some innate shame there. Because to validate there's shame. I think it's shame. Yeah. I think if a person validates your attempt to act like someone you're not, which I don't think that buying nice stuff makes you someone you're not. But if your motive for doing it is to. To seem a certain way, then when someone calls it out, even if they're saying the thing that you wish they would, there's this like, weird thing about it. And it's the problem of, like with talented people, if they put up a projected image of themselves and you affirm that projected image, it actually creates a cycle of self hatred. Interesting, because it's like you liked the I was able to fool you and deceive you with this costume or this Persona. That's where I think it's most prevalent. And it's like I deceived you into liking this version of me I created for you to like. So your affirmation of it, you don't even know about it, but subconsciously it's reminding me, like, see, they like what you can fake because the real you, they wouldn't like.

[B]

That is so deep. That's my theory of you guys listening. Have ever thought that deep about just that small of a thing? But that is like, that's the whole term that we've always said everyone has a behind the scenes.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I remember feeling that way with the church at large as a teenager, a young adult, where my. My journals to God. After we talked about this the other day, I thought about it. There were times where I would journal to God and I felt like simultaneously people were so. If you're young and you preach, people are so quick to like raise you up and praise you and like you and compete with you and tell you you're awesome or whatever. But the more I could successfully pull off that version of myself, the more I felt like I was suffocating the real version of me. And no one was asking me to do that. That's just something the devil wants people to do because it creates at the same time that there's all this wonderful quote unquot. There's this like self hatred thing going on. And then as that takes place, you know, the cycle of. It's terrible. So I remember one time even journaling to God and being like, I hate this is so. I don't feel this way anymore. But I remember it was like junior year of college, I was about to take a team of missionaries to Burkina Faso. And I remember during that week before everyone's saying how awesome I am Because I'm leading this team and whatever, all this stuff. And I remember writing, like, I hate church people because they're so easy to fool. Like, I'm such a good actor or either. Either I'm such a good actor or they're so easy to fool because I actually have all these other things on my mind and on my heart, and I have no space to talk about them or operate in them. And over here, this other stuff is happening and I'm being praised for these other things that aren't even real. And so I had to work through that over the next 12 years.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you still fake?

[A]

No, No. I feel euphoric most days that I just walk into a coffee place and grab a coffee like that. No feeling of. And this isn't true for everyone who stands on stage and preaches. Right. But for those who think they need to be on stage to validate their identity like I did, then there is no feeling. Like, the best feeling I would get after I would preach somewhere back in the day doesn't even compare to, like, the most basic activity I do as a person just now. Like, walk into a place, not be bright and happy and like every. Like, you know how the church lobby self. And to not be that and to just be like, hey, how are you? Like, genuine. I'm at the gym the other day, a guy made a nice compliment. I go, thank you. That's really nice of you to say.

[B]

Yeah, that felt good. Just to be real.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And not have to go. And you too, also. And you're also doing well and, you know, like, to not do all that.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Okay. So. I'm so glad you brought. So yesterday I went to Whole Foods and I was. I actually was running in to grab. What was I going to grab? Oh, I. I had a moment to buy my kids heat up dinner in a microwave, which is spaghetti. I know you can cook spaghetti and meatballs.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But just the art of like. Yeah, I'm not gonna get into it, guys.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Basically, I will go and buy spaghetti and meatballs, prepackaged Whole foods. So I can heat it up in the microwave and it's my kids dinner the following night. That's just a thing.

[A]

Yeah, people do that.

[B]

So. So I was going in and I had a lunch already prepared for me, but since I'm there, I always love walking through the hot bar.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

The hot food.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And then I see this guy walk by, and then he walks back towards. They have. They had wings like different types of, like, wings.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I walk over and I am looking at the wings and I go, oh, man, those look good. I really want them, but I shouldn't. And the guy goes, are you talking to me? And I go, no, I am trying to figure out these wings. And I go, no, I'm not gonna get them. I walk away and I go get the spaghetti. And I come back and I go, I'm getting the wings.

[A]

But I'm saying this out loud to

[B]

myself, and this guy is looking at me and he goes, yeah, okay.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Are you Paul Doherty's brother?

[A]

Oh, funny.

[B]

And he goes, you are? Yeah, you are. And I go, hi. And then he begins telling me and he goes, I actually met you years ago at a youth pastor conference because I used to work at this other thing and now I do. And he begins talking to me.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was. And in that moment, it was such a weird interaction because I was talking out loud to myself, but I almost lied. And I was like, no, no, I was talking to you.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Because I didn't want to feel stupid.

[A]

Sure, sure, sure, sure.

[B]

I was like, man, I'm so glad I did not lie to him because he ended up knowing who I was and we just talked about church or whatever.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And then I left and went on my way and he did it thing.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But I was like, what was that feeling of me not wanting to, like, not. I don't. You know that initial nudge of being like, yeah. Oh, don't let him think that you're weird.

[A]

Sure, sure.

[B]

You know?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

When in reality I could have been like, nah, I'm just talking to myself. I'm just a psychopath looking for some weed.

[A]

But that's hilarious, isn't it? If you were talking to someone and they said that to you, you would laugh.

[B]

I guess so. But I think that my ego of being like, oh, just lie and be like, yes, you were talking to him, you know, because you don't want him to think that you're a weirdo.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But anyways, I know that we're just kind of. This is very niche of what we're talking about, but I think it's a deep rooted issue of, you know, and I don't know if it's just my age or whatever or I should say my generation, but it. It is this thing of no longer wanting to perform.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

It is what it is, right?

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I see this stuff everywhere. And I think everyone listening experiences this twice a day. Like go into Any supermarket and just observe the other strangers and notice the energy that you have. Like, I was at a coffee place, I'm on my laptop and I specifically went to a very private area where I could like lay out papers. And I've got all this stuff and I'm working on something. I've got my music on, whatever, headphones, obviously. And this random person just walks over, like there's so much room in this coffee shop and intentionally sits right next to me. And I'm like, huh? I smiled at them, I gathered my. I made room for them. I was like, okay. Eventually I realized it's cause they needed the plug that I was sitting next to. But it was that weird, that strange energy of like, are we going to talk to each other? Am I going to acknowledge what this person just did? Or are we going to. And at no point did we speak to one another. I just was there.

[B]

So what? And so what. What was that? Or were you saying that you felt.

[A]

I'm saying people, if you go out in public at all, that thing right there is happening all the time.

[B]

Oh, just the awkward.

[A]

And so that's what I mean to say is that's why people will create a Persona to perform. Because it's like, I have to be kind and pleasant or I don't want to be thought of as weird or I don't want to. Whatever, Whatever. Whatever. There's. That's the reason that we force that to happen. And it happens in church a lot too.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah. And it's rooted in people pleasing.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

But I've also learned if a person. Like, I had a similar thing happen the other day. I'm walking through Target and there's a gentleman who works at Target. He has the outfit on at least. And we just made eye contact. And I don't think that happens to him a lot. And I just kind of like, nodded. I didn't even say anything. I just nodded and kept. And he goes, did you need something? And I just like, for some reason I was in the mood. I went, honestly, bro, I'm just weird about Icon. I make eye contact. I'm so sorry. And he laughed really hard and was like, oh, okay, well, let me know if you need anything. And I was like, actually. And then we just get into talking, whatever. And I've just learned that version is more fun to be and it's more fun to experience that as a person.

[B]

And what you just did, you probably could not have done when you're 23.

[A]

Absolutely not.

[B]

Yeah. But something Breaks off of you when you reach a certain age.

[A]

Hopefully.

[B]

What is it?

[A]

Hopefully some people, they never do.

[B]

That's true. Do you guys know what I'm talking about? Those of you who are listening and watching? Are we just sounding weird?

[A]

No, I see it all. I think this is. There are so few people who are at peace with being themselves. Permission to be themselves.

[B]

Permission.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's what we wanted to talk to you guys.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

About is permission. You have permission.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

To be yourself.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

You know, I remember whenever you were younger, you know, to go on a field trip, you needed a. Oh, like

[A]

a slip signed slip.

[B]

A permission slip.

[A]

Oh, sorry.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

After 11 seasons, I was debating between a parent going with you or a parent signed slip. But now you're right. A permission slip. I haven't been on a field trip in a while. I haven't either. That's a good word.

[B]

But a permission slip. And that permission slip grants you a fun day on the field trip.

[A]

Yeah. Right.

[B]

And it's like, okay, this is your permission slip to go have a fun day.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

But by. And it doesn't mean that you have to go spend money or go do anything in particular.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Just being yourself.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Feel something. Say something. Especially if it's like, yeah. Oh, that person who just got on the elevator with me.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That cologne, whatever you're wearing. I like that.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah.

[A]

Even.

[B]

Yeah. And you also have the permission not to say.

[C]

Right.

[A]

You can also just stand still. And it's not a. It's not bad on you. It's not a poor reflection of Christ.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Because I grew up. That was why I created one. It was like there's this innate thing, I think the devil says to everybody who's young, which is like, the you that you are just now is not enough and not cool enough and not funny enough and not whatever enough. And the real you that you are is too much of this and too much of that. Whatever. That's the thing that I think everyone subconsciously is. And thank God I didn't grow up with Instagram between, like, age 8 and 15. If you're. If you're 8 to 15 and you have an Instagram, God help these people. But, like, you're constantly told that. So then in my desire to be a good Christian, I adopt all these behaviors. I started dressing a certain way. I wanted people to perceive me a certain way. I wanted to always have something deep to offer people and say to people. And I wanted. You know what I mean?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And then after enough time of that, you're like, I think. And enough time spent in Scripture and actually knowing God and going through difficulties in life, whatever, you go, I actually really like the version I am when I wake up. Like, that guy that Arvin. Like, the friends that I have, really enjoy him. And I enjoy him. And that's. You have to also see your identity as a gift from God. Like, he crafted that and made that.

[B]

He sure did.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I was just talking to a friend yesterday who. He just recently started coming to Victory. And, you know, he has sought me out because, you know, we had done some. We'd been at certain Victory events together, and it was like, hey, could we meet up and pray? And so we've met up and prayed several times, you know, and he just reached out to me the other day and he's like, hey, I lost my job. And he's like, I. And he's like. And he was telling me about his past with just rejection.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And, you know, he'd gone through rejection in relationships. He'd gone through rejection in. In working, you know, in certain jobs.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And I was asking him, what. What do you believe? Like, I know you read the Bible.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

I've heard your testimony.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I know that, you know, God and Jesus is in your heart.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

If I was to ask you to look into a mirror and I was to say, what do you believe about that guy? You know, kind of like, have you ever seen Cool Runnings?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Where it's like they look into the mirror and they're like, you say I'm a bad mother.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember that. Yeah.

[B]

But this. This guy was like, I just. I think that maybe deep down I don't feel. Feel worthy. And I was like, whoa.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

This was like, he's a. He's a man's man.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

You know?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And I was like, yeah, okay. I. I can understand that because I have felt that.

[A]

Sure, sure.

[B]

Yeah. I've had those feelings and lies that have crept in.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and I think every dude and girl are susceptible to that.

[C]

Of course.

[B]

Where their subconscious beliefs.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Ingrained beliefs, actually. It's this, like, okay, I got this job. It's only a matter of time before I get let go because I don't have what it takes.

[A]

Right, Right.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and so that's why, you know, self help is a billion dollar industry.

[A]

Definitely. Yeah.

[B]

When in reality it is. God created you with everything that you need.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

If you're listening or watching this and you've ever struggled with that. And I know it's one thing for me to say this, you know, over a podcast or through a YouTube video.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But it is important that you begin to write down what you believe that you are.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And changing that narrative. You can. Yeah, you can. That is possible.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

You know, King Agrippa, in the Bible, I think myself happy.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

You know, David, who wrote most of the Psalms, he would say things. Yes. In anguish or in praise. But also.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

He would. He would speak of. He would change his narrative in his story about those ingrained beliefs, you know.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So that's something that is going to always be a continual thing that you have to work on. You know, I was. I'm now jumping tracks into where we are now. You know, we are now finished with Christmas 2026 script.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And, you know, also, we just received an email from Ryan Stafford, the guy who is also helping us direct certain things of. We have also broken down Easter 2027.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Which is so exciting.

[A]

Very exciting.

[B]

And we're really excited about those stories.

[A]

And.

[B]

And, you know, I think that that is something that we are very grateful for, that we get to do. One thing that we were doing a meeting the other day, and in victory, one thing that leadership has asked us to do is who is your plus one? Who is someone that you're raising up to do what you do now? Another thing that I do is I help coach in the school. So they're like, if you get sick, if something happens to you. Right.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Who is someone who can. Like, as Moses trained up Joshua, the thing that also was bad was that Joshua didn't train up anyone. So that's why after Joshua, if you read in the Old Testament, it's like, well, Moses trained up Joshua, but who did Joshua train up? There's a little bit of a gap, right?

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Before the next person had to rise up. So it's like, okay, who are you raising up? If you got sick or if you had an emergency, this person could do what you do. And I was asking Arvin, I was like, obviously, if John, if in a family emergency or something happens, we have it in the production world of Arvin is able to step in. But I'm like, but who is someone that is able to do something? If me and Arvin, if something happens to both of us.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And we brought up, okay, there are people that we've had that have interned with us or people. But you know, what is an honest look at that whole type of a thing. Because one thing that we've done at Victory is we do productions. Not first. Number one, not every church does productions. Number two, the people that do productions, they don't do them like what we do.

[A]

Right. For good reason.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I mean, there are two things that operate next to one another. There is the stuff that you cannot account for that God does, that we can call magic. I don't mean like magic in a witchcraft way, but just like the.

[B]

Like Disney magic.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like the. And I think there's a lot of that at Victory. There's a lot of wonderful. Like someone cares enough to do something, et cetera, et cetera. And then on the other end, there's craft. And I was listening to Jack Antonoff talk about this with Mike Birbiglia the other day.

[B]

If you guys don't know who Jack Antonoff is, he's the guy that helped produce.

[A]

He's a musician, artist, producer. He's done so many albums for so many people. Really smart guy. And him. And Birbiglia is a comedian. They have this episode where they're just talking about the craft and magic. So I don't want to pretend I came up with this, but I really like how he put it because I think it's very true, which is that you work on the craft and then I believe God provides the spirit or the magic to it. And if you just. If you experience the magical moment when something special happens in a production, which I believe has been happening at Victory for, you know, before I was born, and then you see he's alive back in the day. Or any of these other illustrated sermons. Then there was a time where 10, 11 years ago, you step in and do the craft part and go, let's do this. Let's. Let's. You know now that there weren't craftsmen from before, but it was like, let's. Let's really dig in on this.

[B]

Really dig in on the production of music. Let's really dig in.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

The dance.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Again. And try to go to a new level in what we're doing film wise. Let's really dig in and. And try to go to a new level in what we're doing. Dialog.

[A]

That's right.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, sometimes a long time ago, it was like dialogue. It was not bad, but it was like, okay, what do we need to communicate? Let's communicate it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

As opposed to being like, yeah, not everything. This is just such a small example sure. But if you guys who are listening or watching, if you think about your favorite shows or movies, most of the times the dialogue is not on the nose. Like, they never say what they're doing. It's eluded to. And that helps. That helps. Like, what do you call that? That helps the audience. When the audience is connecting dots, they're getting. They're getting the point in a new way to where the dialogue is not so on the nose, saying exactly what's happening in this scene.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So that's something that Arvin has been able to take to a new level within our scripts. So anyways, that's just a side example of what you're.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I just mean the thing that you're aware of and that you work on is the craft. Like, do you show up? Do you work hard on it? Do you study it? Do you. You know, it is a massive privilege that my job is to do that. That's the craft of these shows or whatever. And then the magic stuff is like, what happens when we have a conversation about a script? There's not been a script we've done so far where there were not at least three to five moments of like, oh, oh, oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Simultaneously, like, you know, lightning strikes.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's. That's the grace of God. That's the anointing of God.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And when those of you guys are listening, watching. We've said this before. When the grace of God lifts, which it has happened in other. Thank God it's not happened with us yet. And I don't want it to happen, of course, but, like, we've all have seen it whenever the hand of God is removed. And there's even stories in the Bible when it's like, oh, Saul was saying, still king.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But he was no longer king under the anointing.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That's the most terrifying play. And I would never want to be with that same Victory productions. It's like, okay, when we have those light bulb moments, it's more than just creative juices flowing. It's the, you know, what we would call magic, even though we're not talking about witchcraft. It's the sparks.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Boom. And it's like, oh, that was the presence of God.

[C]

That was the spark.

[A]

Absolutely. And there's a real reason why. And it's the hardest thing for an arrogant person to hear is what I'm about to say. If you have God constantly showing up and breathing his spirit into what you have been working on as a Craftsperson, then a lot of people will credit the craftsperson with the magic, with the spirit. And it's like, if you hear that and you believe it, then the next time you're gonna go to do the craft, you will feel the pressure of creating the magic.

[B]

Like, for instance. Hold on to that.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Since there's been certain people who have been like, man, how do you guys think of another thing? And I've never felt really stressed about no new me. I've never been like, yeah, oh no, we gotta. Yeah, yeah, yeah, figure out a new thing. Like, I never felt that totally.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

But certain people would.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And the reason they would feel that burden is because they're.

[A]

They're experiencing the spirit of God, the magic that's happening in that moment. And they're like, wow, I can't imagine trying to come up with that. And then I would hear that and go, same like, thankfully, God's word is alive.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And if you believe that and then you can continue. So it's really for the. God will. I think those instances when God lifts his hand from something like that is not because it's like a punishment or like, oh, you want to, you want to take my glory from me or whatever. You want people to worship you instead of like, I actually don't think God is like. Because it actually says it pleases him to share his kingdom with us. He wants to share glory and even one of Paul's prayers to the Thessalonian Church in 2nd Thessalonians. He says he's praying to God. He goes, I pray that people would honor you, God, because of me, and may I be honored with you. And so I don't think God's like, I don't want you to get any credit for this stuff.

[B]

Yeah, don't be the shame. Like, oh, these old days.

[A]

Yeah. I don't think he's doing the self deprecation thing. I think God's saying, if you actually walk around feeling the pressure to create the thing that only my spirit can do.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You are going to lose your mind. And that is what happened with Saul. He lost his mind.

[B]

He sure did.

[A]

And so if that's the case, then.

[B]

Because he started out anointed.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. And the millisecond that you start to go believe the hype about yourself, or someone comes up to us and says something about one of these shows and it's like, and I am capable of thinking of that. And.it's like, no, the moment you go there, you're in Unsafe territory.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And God, for your protection, might move his hand and go, hold on. Like.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You don't know what will. Like, this will destroy you if you think that way. You know what I mean? Like, if you are the wall that the wave hits, you're going to feel the kinetic energy, you're going to feel the force. But if you can just be on the wave and ride the wave, then you don't feel any of that. You know what I mean? There's a massive difference. If it flows through you, it's wonderful. If it stops at you, it's going to crush you.

[B]

Yes. No, that's a good word. Now, as far as. Now, here's another question. And this is kind of how we can, like, land the plane is. What about people who go, I feel like I am called to do this great big thing. You know, we were watching before this, there was a trailer of something that we were watching, and it was of a. It was like, of a film that was. It was like faith film. Like a Christian movie.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and I was like, oh, man, this was someone's dream or vision.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Now, the trailer that we saw of this specific Christian film, it was not. It was not good.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It was bad.

[B]

It was bad. But in my mind, I'm like, but I don't think that the person who set out to do it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I think in their heart and in their mind, like. And I. And I don't know anything about this film. It was. That it was sent to us.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and it was like. But. And I'm not even saying that I could do anything better. It was bad, though.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And it just wasn't good.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, that's a fact. It's.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm not slamming anyone.

[C]

No.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But it's like, how do you balance that with someone who's like, this was my dream.

[A]

Sure. I mean, if you zoom in on just that moment, then that's a bummer. But if you see it hopefully in context and go, well, maybe the next one will be. Because there are things I have made that I could pull up right now and go, man. And there are things I've tried to get made that didn't get made, I'm so relieved they didn't, because if they had, it would be so embarrassing, so humiliating. But then if you zoom out and go, well, maybe their next one will be even better. And then you also have to consider, like, I just may not be the audience for this. You know, maybe God hasn't ordained There are people who really like this podcast, and this podcast has found its audience with that. But there are individuals who find it nauseating to listen to you and me talk for 40 minutes, and I'm so glad that they don't listen. You know?

[B]

That's true. That's a good perspective.

[A]

Yeah. I think God has. If God's in it, then he has something for someone who's watching or listening.

[B]

If God's in it, he has something for someone who's listening or watching.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's true of these productions, this podcast.

[B]

Hopefully everything that you guys create. Like, if someone else bashes on this sounds bad, but if someone else bashes on what you guys, those of you who are listening, watching what you've created, or something that you've written or design, or maybe something that you have gotten that creative magic flowing or whatever.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And you're like, well, I don't want to feel ashamed of it. I don't feel guilt. And I really, really tried my best, but it's just not awesome.

[A]

Sure, keep trying. Like, if you think of it as a farmer, like, there's fields of soil, and then you grow fruit, and sometimes the fruit's not ripe. Sometimes if something's wrong with the soil, the fruit can get poisonous and toxic. That's a problem that can happen. If you're not preserving it from, like, bugs and stuff, it can get destroyed. If you think of it that way, then the longer you farm, the more. If your soil's healthy and the right ingredients are happening and you're faithful and you're doing the craft of it. Even the Bible says the farmer doesn't even know how this thing happens. Literally just does the thing, and it works the way it does. That's what we're talking about, craft and magic. It's farming and fruit. And if there are people who need to eat the fruit because there's nutritional value for them, then we're going to get it to them. And that's what happens with these productions or our POD or whatever you make, you know, in life. And if you see it that way, then you see it in a cyclical pattern of seasons. And it's like, what's the right season to grow this specific food? There are different foods that grow better at different times during the year. That's right. And if you're. If you ignore that and you don't pay attention to that and you've got like, there are movies in my mind that I'm like, I can't make them right now because they Won't look good now.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But what can I make look its best right now?

[B]

Right now we're being stewards of the right now thing.

[A]

Because if God knows when the audience needs the nutritional value of the thing, that if I believe he's gonna give it to me and not just like the idea, but the opportunity to make it, then his timing is also gonna be wise, you know, so there are things I'm like, as redundant as that sounds. Sure.

[B]

I believe it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, that's the key to not losing your mind when. When I can get so frustrated sometimes at being like, I want to do this thing, I want to do this thing I want to do. Why am I 33 already? What's taking too long? And then it's like, buddy, relax. There is. If you think that way, you are neglecting and compromising the field that you are called to work on. And so if you can be real faithful to that field and grow that fruit and serve the people that need that nutritional value, then you may continue to get to do it. But if not, then it just. It shrinks.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And you don't want that.

[B]

That is something that is a great challenge to all of us.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, as we end this season, first off, I hope you guys enjoyed it. Secondly, with this podcast, you know, our heart is that those of you who are behind the scenes people, that you feel like you can trust God's timing and that whatever it is that you're currently working on, it's just preparing you for the next thing. Totally doesn't have to be awesome. Don't get your three year plan confused with your five year plan. And also your plan.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Is just basically jokes Jesus to God.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, a man makes a plan and God laughs type of a situation. But what's important is how we're stewarding, stewarding right now. And while you're in right now, don't water yourself down.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Don't self deprecate.

[B]

Don't self deprecate. Don't do that. The next time that you feel that urge, I want you to think of us.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

See our faces and just go, I was talking to myself around the Buffalo wild way things.

[C]

Yeah, that's right.

[B]

It'll be awesome. Just be that guy or that girl.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

We love you.

[A]

Thanks, guys.

[B]

Thank you for listening.

[A]

And we'll see you next time.

[B]

We'll see you next time.

[A]

Bye.