Podcast
Warfare of Art & Law Podcast
Hosted by Stephanie Drawdy · EN
Warfare of Art and Law Podcast sparks conversation about the intriguing – and sometimes infuriating – stories that arise in the worlds of art and law with artist and attorney Stephanie Drawdy.
27episodes
Episodes
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Hon. Simon Frankel & Prof. Stephen Urice on the 6th Edition of LEVA: Law, Ethics, and the Visual Arts
2w ago00:53:27Tap to summarizeSend us Fan MailPlease visit LEVA, 6th Edition's site to learn more. Show Notes:0:00 Prof. Stephen Urice describes Law, Ethics, and the Visual Arts 1:30 Urice's background 3:25 Hon. Simon Frankel's background6:00 SU: evolution of Law, Ethics, and the Visual Arts (LEVA)9:00 SF: changes in LEVA, 6th Ed.11:40 SF: 6th Ed.’s accessibility and increased framing12:25 SU: 6th Ed.’s shift in perspective to a more centrist presentation14:00 SF: 6th Ed.’s usefulness for a broad audience15:20 SU: examples of stories in 6th Ed, e.g., Naruto v. Slater, (9th Cir. 2018) 16:00 SU: Brancusi v. US, 54 Treas. Dec. 428 (U.S. Customs Court 1928) 17:25 SF: variety of materials in LEVA, e.g., articles, statutes, transcripts, novels18:20 SF: Examples of cases about the authenticity of works and the disconnect between legal judgments and art world valuations: Greenberg Gallery v. Bauman, 817 F. Supp. 167 (D.D.C. 1993), aff’d without opinion, 36 F.3d 127 (D.C. Cir. 1994) (Calder sculpture held to be authentic by the trial judge versus expert Klaus Perls’ rejection of the work) 20:30 SF: Herstand & Co. v. Gallery Gertrude Stein Inc., 211 A.D.2d 77 (N.Y. App. Div. 1995) (remand on authenticity of Balthus drawing despite Balthus' repudiation of the work) 22:40 SU: colorful settings and range of legal issues arising in art-related cases24:45 ethical issues arising in art-related disputes, e.g., restitution claims26:35 SF: Museum Studies Scholar Marie Malaro, the law makes us only bearable, not honorable.27:00 Holocaust Expropriated Art Recovery Act of 2016; HEAR Act of 2025 31:50 LEVA website and its future resources34:10 SU: AI-generated discussions about issues in LEVA, 6th Ed.36:00 SU: 6th Ed. updates 37:05 SF: generative AI issues in pending suits40:00 LEVA, 7th Ed.41:30 Feedback from readers of 6th Ed.42:15 Tax issues covered in 6th Ed.45:50 SF: definition of justice47:50 SU: ethical concerns in defining justice to aim for honor 50:00 SF: mark he hopes to be making 50:55 SU: mark he hopes to be making with LEVAPlease share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.comMusic by Toulme.To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com. Thanks so much for listening!This podcast and its content may not be used for training or developing AI systems without permission.© Stephanie Drawdy [2026]
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Art Lawyer Patrick McGranaghan on AI, Copyright and the Collision of Culture and Infrastructure
4w ago01:01:15Tap to summarizeSend us Fan MailShow Notes:1:35 Patrick McGranaghan’s background 2:45 McGranaghan’s work with Pierre Valentin3:05 focus on collision of culture and infrastructure4:45 “evidential fog” around AI in the arts6:00 abstract nature of these AI issues 7:00 his writing on these issues to navigate these issues8:30 EU’s AI framework “recognizes the structural nature of the problem” – can’t be minor updates to old copyright debates, “AI creates problems of scale, opacity and jurisdictional arbitrage that traditional legal categories do not solve very elegantly.” 10:00 incentive for jurisdiction shopping11:40 Getty v. Stability AI in the UK 14:05 EU AI Act’s extraterritorial obligations 15:00 EU AI Act, Article 53: general purpose models brought into EU must comply with EU copyright law, including opt out reservations; and detailed summary of training data17:55 UK’s approach is more exposed to loopholes19:25 opt in versus opt out systems21:35 Kadrey v. Meta 22:55 the burden placed on creators by the opt out system 25:45 sporadic licensing deals and unclear remuneration standard27:30 interoperability 28:40 impact of robots.txt31:15 Alan Robertshaw re: impact of AI on the practice of law34:50 AI defamation cases36:20 McGranaghan - need for lawyers regardless of AI37:25 Robertshaw - legal professions’ varied approaches to AI38:55 AI and astronomy40:30 moral conflict with not compensating artists43:00 justices/injustices related to AI46:45 market harm created by AI49:25 definition of justice 53:05 protections that artists can use, e.g., robots.txt, metadata, units based protection, Glaze and Nightshade 58:00 mark Patrick hopes to make around AI and art Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.comMusic by Toulme.To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com. Thanks so much for listening!This podcast and its content may not be used for training or developing AI systems without permission.© Stephanie Drawdy [2026]
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Artists' Rights at Risk: From State Sovereign Immunity to Generative AI
May 2500:49:37Tap to summarizeSend us Fan MailCover photo of Rick Allen - copyright Cindy Burnham, Lucky Shot Productions Show Note: 0:00 Nautilus Productions' Co-Founder Rick Allen gives the history of Allen v. McCrory - suit against NC over Allen's footage of the Queen Anne's Revenge Shipwreck 1:20 SCOTUS’ 9-0 decision in Allen v. Cooper that the Copyright Remedy Clarification Act of 1990 (CRCA) was unconstitutional 2:00 NC’s technical arguments against Allen’s claims 2:55 court's use of pendant jurisdiction to wipe out 5 years of Allen’s case3:45 petition for rehearing en banc denied 6:45 states’ use of sovereign immunity against creators8:50 Jeff Sedlik’s suit over use of his photo of Miles Davis as a tattoo 9:30 Michael J. Bynum’s suit over Texas A&M University’s unauthorized use of Bynum’s 12th Man book (complaint here; dismissal of copyright infringement claims against A&M employee discussed here)11:00 Allen’s recommendations to artists to protect their work online13:35 Emily Gould’s discussion of LAION case 17:00 Bartz v. Anthropic - 23 June 2025 Order on Fair Use in N.D. Cal.19:50 Allen on opt out policy20:20 Visual Artists Copyright Reform Act (VACRA)21:00 Gould on survey by DACS (the Design and Artist’s Copyright Society) 23:00 response to UK government’s consultations 24:00 UK House of Lord’s hearings24:30 Allen on artists not understanding impact of generative AI26:00 Gould on UK judgment from trial in Getty v. Stability 28:50 Gould on judgment in GEMA v. Open AI31:55 Lauren Stein on ChatGPT and law school's encouragement to use AI 33:00 Getty v. Stability in UK – Getty’s drop of direct infringement claim and appeal of ruling on secondary infringement claim35:50 UK’s Section 9(3) - copyright protection for original work created by a machine39:20 Stein on copyrightability and Japan’s approach to sufficient human authorship41:40 Gould on Beijing Internet Court's judgment in Li v. Liu42:05 Allen’s position on AI44:00 Gould on authenticity and human contribution47:35 Ed Newton-Rex Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.comMusic by Toulme.To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com. Thanks so much for listening!This podcast and its content may not be used for training or developing AI systems without permission.© Stephanie Drawdy [2026]
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Multidisciplinary Artist Zoë Buckman on Agency, Jewish Personhood & Multiple Truths
May 301:00:13Tap to summarizeSend us Fan MailPhoto of Zoë Buckman by Abbey Druckershow notes:1:10 background as a multi-media visual artist7:00 Buckman’s dialogue with agency9:25 her use of embroidery10:40 filmmaking11:00 Show Me Your Bruises, Then14:25 exhibition at the Perez Museum 18:50 power of art22:00 Artist Tracey Ehmann 23:45 exploration of personal issues in her work 26:15 her work on Jewish personhood 34:30 erasure and gaslighting of Jewish artists37:00 show at Mindy Solomon Gallery 41:00 Jewish people’s complicated relationship with the home42:45 her definition of justice / injustice 45:40 how her work addresses her view of justice / injustice49:30 use of vintage textiles51:45 coffee table book52:45 2027 NY show53:30 collaboration with Actress Cush Jumbo54:50 the legacy Buckman hopes to make with her work56:15 multiple truths she addresses in her workPlease share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.comMusic by Toulme.To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com. Thanks so much for listening!This podcast and its content may not be used for training or developing AI systems without permission.© Stephanie Drawdy [2026]
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TEDx Speaker Ronnie Stephens on His Legacy Journey as a Member of the Quapaw and Cherokee Tribes, the Impact of NAGPRA, How Best to Preserve and Celebrate Native American Culture & the Importance of Storytelling
Apr 1901:04:06Tap to summarizeSend us Fan MailTo learn more, please visit Ronnie Stephens' site and view his TEDx Talk1:50 background of Ronnie’s “legacy journey” as a member of the Quapaw and Cherokee Tribes3:30 1897 allotment of 240 acres to Stephens' great-grandfather4:30 Quapaw Tribe’s relocation from Arkansas to Oklahoma 6:30 McGirt v. Oklahoma, 140 S. Ct. 2452 (2020)9:00 issues identified by Tribal Leaders10:50 Dawes Commission and Burke Act17:00 management of allotted land19:25 Emily Gould – question about allotted land 24:45 Keeping Traditions Alive exhibition26:20 Killers of the Flower Moon rewritten with input from Osage Nation27:55 Echo film involved input from Choctaw Nation30:00 Alan Robertshaw–Prey-film with Native American heroine31:55 Dark Winds series33:30 policy shifts needed 38:30 NAGPRA and its amendments43:45 education needed for cultural sensitivity 46:00 BBC Documentary: Rich Hall’s Inventing the Indian49:20 Lauren Gowler–question about historic US federal laws55:00 definition of justice Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.comMusic by Toulme.To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com. Thanks so much for listening!This podcast and its content may not be used for training or developing AI systems without permission.© Stephanie Drawdy [2026]
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Aurelian Lawyers & Advisers' Director & Founder Alana Kushnir on Antisemitism in the Arts, Education on the Depth of Jewish Culture and History, and the Moral Component of Justice
Mar 2800:53:32Tap to summarizeSend us Fan MailPhotographer credit: Simon StrongHere is more information about Alana Kushnir and Aurelian Lawyers & Advisers.Show Notes:1:45 update since Alana’s 2021 interview at Ep. 433:45 rebranding to Aurelian Lawyers & Advisers5:00 LinkedIn posts by Alana and Guest Work Agency8:00 antisemitism in the arts 13:00 resignation from Australian Centre for Contemporary Art’s Board13:35 Australian news article led to her public cancellation 15:55 Serpentine Gallery's removal of her after 5 years as the lead on its research programme, The Legal Lab20:00 steps forward to address hypocrisy in the arts sector20:55 service on Jewish Museum of Australia’s board21:40 her curation of Chutzpah: Spirit. Recollection. Self.23:20 Georgian Artist Nina Sanadze's “Call to Peace” Series27:40 Sanadze’s use of flowers from Bondi Massacre in future sculpture30:30 Israeli-German Artist Elinor Sahm’s "Ha'layla"31:30 Simm’s family archive used to show a Jerusalemite-Sepheradic “Hafla” (traditional celebration and gathering)33:35 Alana's aim to bring back the depth of Jewish culture and history37:25 Alana’s dream project to highlight the Jewish community's contribution to Australia's culture, especially Jewish women39:30 education to bring together Jewish and non-Jewish communities42:50 current relevance of the Holocaust45:00 Jewish community from former USSR at the Bondi massacre46:50 moral courage as a form of justice48:00 legacy to create culture not fear, to emphasize integrity and loyalty 49:15 her work with Arts Patron and Hospitality Icon Rinaldo Di Stasio 50:05 Di Stasio’s commission of Artist Sean Gladwell for a moving image work in flagship restaurant, Di Stasio Città Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.comMusic by Toulme.To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com. Thanks so much for listening!This podcast and its content may not be used for training or developing AI systems without permission.© Stephanie Drawdy [2026]
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Iranian-Italian Actor Isabella Nefar on Resilience, Censorship and the Power of Storytelling
Feb 2200:31:53Tap to summarizeSend us Fan MailShow notes:1:30 background3:30 My English Persian Kitchen5:15 Sheherazade, narrator of One Thousand and One Nights5:45 My English Persian Kitchen author Atoosa Sepehr’s efforts to address misconceptions about Iranians 7:30 Reading Lolita in Tehran9:45 choice of roles that challenge the stereotype about Iranians10:10 Apple TV series Tehran12:00 defenders of human rights14:25 response to Iran’s formal and psychological censorship of creative community16:45 Artist Soheila Sokhanvari18:30 Women Life Freedom movement21:00 global response to human rights’ violations in Iran23:00 the meaning of justice in terms of accountability 24:20 future projects27:25 legacy / mark of her work 28:55 creative process and connection with other creativesPlease share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.comMusic by Toulme.To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com. Thanks so much for listening!This podcast and its content may not be used for training or developing AI systems without permission.© Stephanie Drawdy [2026]
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Multidisciplinary Artist Bayeté Ross Smith on Art, Technology and Restorative Justice
Feb 101:00:50Tap to summarizeSend us Fan Mailmultidisciplinary artist/visual journalist/filmmaker/education worker Bayeté Ross SmithShow Notes:2:00 Bayeté Ross Smith’s background, work and collaboration7:00 relevance of colonialism in transnational issues 9:50 collective brain trust/collective culture14:30 employing technology with storytelling20:30 creatives’ protection of their metadata24:40 “art” and “data” as information 27:50 “human authorship” and copyright 34:25 bias proliferation with AI39:40 power of art and media to raise awareness 44:50 “restorative justice” to mitigate and deter harm so individuals can flourish54:00 current and future projects, including Got the Power Boomboxes: Sugar Cane and Cotton, Hip Hop 50 Boombox, video game project and collaboration with legal communityPlease share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.comMusic by Toulme.To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com. Thanks so much for listening!This podcast and its content may not be used for training or developing AI systems without permission.© Stephanie Drawdy [2026]
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Steven Gambardella on Stoicism: Its Benefits and Paradoxes
Jan 1801:03:41Tap to summarizeSend us Fan MailPlease visit Steven Gambardella's site here to learn more. Show Notes:1:15 background in the arts4:00 Dutch philosopher Spinoza’s parallels with Hellenistic philosophies5:20 Gambardella’s Become As You Are7:30 “Stoic Kitsch” blog post 9:00 individual agency and collective action11:00 crisis of agency11:20 emergence of stoicism14:00 four-fold root of virtue20:10 four facets of autonomy, perspective, objectivity and control and their relation to the four virtues of wisdom, moderation, justice and courage/fearlessness21:25 Steven's blog 21:45 Stoic view of justice relates to ignorance26:00 moralism27:00 Seneca, tutor and advisor to Roman emperor Nero32:00 applying ancient Stoic ideas in current day35:35 Stoicism and Philosophy Reading Group 38:30 summary of Stoicism: Virtue is the only good; and you have full control over the domain of your soul/your “inner citadel”40:20 Stoicism at a crossroads 43:45 his hope to contribute to a revolution of the soul that encourages a view of the world that is more holistic and spiritual45:40 Question from Susanne van der Meer about the paradox in Stoicism about the responsibility of agency versus a Stoic view of incarceration 55:00 Stoic view of fear and desire1:00:00 Comments from Emily GouldPlease share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.comMusic by Toulme.To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com. Thanks so much for listening!This podcast and its content may not be used for training or developing AI systems without permission.© Stephanie Drawdy [2026]
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Italian IP, New Tech and Art Law Lawyer Massimo Sterpi on Issues Raised by Generative AI and the Future of Agentic AI
Jan 400:55:27Tap to summarizeSend us Fan MailIP attorney Massimo SterpiMassimo Sterpi photo by Eolo Perfido Show Notes:1:30 Sterpi’s work with emerging tech2:30 shift in use of emerging tech/arts issues3:55 Brazilian artist Eduardo Kac's transgenic work4:30 blockchain / NFT as a testing area5:10 generative AI and copyright6:20 copyrighted works as training data 12:25 11 Nov 2025 judgment by Munich Regional Court in GEMA v. OpenAI (Case No. 42 O 14139/24)14:20 fair use in the US17:05 copyright of outputs23:55 "A Single Piece of American Cheese"26:00 Gema decision’s impact on OpenAI’s business model29:00 UK decision in Getty v. Stability AI32:30 harmonisation 34:20 collective licensing as a solution for AI training36:20 view of justice/injustice with emerging tech in the arts38:40 cultural impact of emerging tech42:00 Christie’s auction of "Portrait of Edmond de Belamy"43:40 2024 Venice Biennale - The Conference on Art and AI’s “The Neo-Synthetic: A Dialogue on Art, A.I., and Emergent Aesthetics”44:30 expanding area regarding the roles involved in outputs46:40 authenticity becoming enigmatic47:00 attempts to create digital scarcity47:55 different standards of creativity 48:30 neighboring rights for AI50:00 Italy’s protection of “simple photographs” versus “photographic works”50:40 UK’s Section 9(3) copyright of outputs fictionally attributed to human involved52:40 Agentic AI Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.comMusic by Toulme.To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com. Thanks so much for listening!This podcast and its content may not be used for training or developing AI systems without permission.© Stephanie Drawdy [2026]
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