The CEO Mindset

Summary

We Talk Back — “The CEO Mindset”

Podcast: We Talk Back
Hosts: Tam Bam & AJ Holiday (Black Effect & iHeartPodcasts)
Guest: Michael Johnson, CEO, Boys and Girls Clubs of Dane County
Date: November 6, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode titled "The CEO Mindset," Tam Bam & AJ Holiday interview Michael Johnson, the dynamic CEO of the Boys and Girls Clubs of Dane County, Madison, Wisconsin. With humor, authenticity and real-life advice, the conversation dives into the perspectives, mindsets, and adversities that shape successful Black leadership — particularly in nonprofit spaces. Michael shares personal journeys from Chicago's tough West Side to the C-suite, offering lessons on resilience, leadership, love, and the challenge of being a Black CEO in America.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Opening & Urgency in Community Support ([03:33])

• Tam Bam highlights a crisis in Jamaica following natural disasters, asking listeners for donations or supplies to support a Black single mother and her children.
• Quote:
  “If y’all can sacrifice even just a couple dollars to help this Black family right before the holidays, I would appreciate it. All right. I love y’all.” – Tam Bam [05:52]

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Meet the Guest: Michael Johnson ([10:01])

• Background: CEO, Boys and Girls Clubs of Dane County (Madison, WI), originally from Chicago. Has lived/worked in several major U.S. cities.
• Community: Madison’s Black community is small (~6% population) but "tight-nit and well represented."
• Celebrity Fundraising: Annual “all white” parties (Black folks dressed in white attire; not just for white people), where celebrities like Lorenz Tate, Gladys Knight, and Drew Hill attend, raising money for children’s programs.

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Roots & Motivation: From the Boys and Girls Club to CEO ([13:43])

• Personal Story:
  • Grew up poor on Chicago's West Side, couldn't read or write as a child.
  • Boys and Girls Clubs played a huge role: gave him after-school safety, support (even paid for his mother’s funeral).
  • Eventually earned MBA, studied at Cornell and Harvard.
• Quote:
  "Today I run a multi-million dollar nonprofit organization in Madison, Wisconsin." – Michael Johnson [14:04]

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The Book: "The Audacity to Lead" ([14:35])

• Themes: Seven Mindset Lessons on Love, Family, and Turning Adversity into Impact. Subtitle: “From the Projects to the C-Suite.”
• Stories Include:
  • Personal adversity (illiteracy, racism, losing money).
  • Fundraising for high-profile cases (Ahmaud Arbery, Michael Brown).
  • Building first statue of Black woman (Vel R. Phillips) at a U.S. state capitol after young activists challenged him.
• Quote:
  “I’ve raised $250 million over the last 25 years in multiple cities...” – Michael Johnson [15:07]

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Mindset Lessons & Keys to Success

1. The Urgency of Now ([18:18])

• Advice: "Do it now. Start where you are." (Stop waiting for 'tomorrow' or 'Monday')
• Metaphor: Life’s a marathon, not a sprint. “You won’t hit a grand slam every day, but swing the bat.”
  • “Write out what it is you want to accomplish and take one step at a time.” – Michael Johnson [21:16]

2. Expanding Horizons ([18:29])

• Surround yourself with role models and believe in a bigger vision for your life.

3. The Academy of Adversity ([25:46])

• Forging tragedy into power.
• Personal stories of racism (coaches dressing as KKK at his university), being broke after a windfall, contemplating suicide, and rebuilding through education and persistence.
  • "I didn’t earn that money, so I didn’t respect it." – Michael Johnson [33:08]

4. Growth through Courage ([39:11])

• Embrace acting, committing to lifelong learning.
• “Grit transforms tough times into turning points.”

5. The Unbreakable Spirit & Strategic Connections ([39:15], [40:33])

• You cannot do this alone; build teams and networks.
• Value is not just in your immediate circle but in learning from everyone: “From GEDs to PhDs, and everything in between.”

6. Building Sustainable Legacy ([41:20])

• Fundraising and legacy-building: Don’t rely on “fish fry dinners” — raise endowments and sizable donations to sustain your mission.
  • "Without margin, there’s no mission.” – Michael Johnson [41:20]

7. The Power of Partnerships, Love & Balance ([50:58])

• Marrying the right partner: Michael credits his wife’s standards for redirecting his life (“she ran my credit, made me take a health exam, and told me to go back to school!”).
  • “Love is about building together, not behind but side by side.” – Michael Johnson [53:25]
• Real leadership includes honoring your spouse and understanding marriage can multiply generational wealth.

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On Leadership & Nonprofits

Addressing Nonprofit Salary Stigma ([46:18])

• Calls for pay equity: “Pay me what my white counterparts make, no more, no less. Let my performance speak.”
• Good leadership is about supporting your entire team, not just the CEO.
  • Employees at BGCDC can take four-month paid sabbaticals after 5 years and are benchmarked for competitive pay.

Advice to Aspiring Leaders ([55:29])

• Marriage can increase net worth (“Married couples make 14% more net worth than singles.”).
• “You gotta find the right partner that you are equally yoked with to get ahead.” – Michael Johnson [55:25]
• There’s always a balance: Don’t work so hard for money that you lose your family or your health.

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“Rapid Fire” Leadership Questions ([58:52])

• Audacity or faith?
  • “Faith. I am a man of faith...I know the only reason I’m standing here today is because there’s a God.” – Michael Johnson [59:08]
• Leading or following, which is harder?
  • Both are necessary; leaders must know how to follow and pour into others.
• Leadership lesson learned the hard way?
  • Acting too fast, not listening or understanding before making changes can backfire.
  • Story: His quick changes caused a third of staff to quit early in his Madison tenure. Learning to seek understanding first is key. [62:31]
• What would you tell your younger self?
  • Find mentors earlier, make better choices before meeting his now-wife.
• Definition of Success:
  • Health and family well-being, impactful work, and maintaining health as a priority.

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Fundraising Masterclass ([42:51], [44:48])

• Don't be afraid to ask big (secured $35 million for new BGCDC building in 16 months).
• Network with high-value donors by communicating a clear vision.
  • Quote:
    “I got on a Zoom call with [donor], and three days later, we had $5 million sitting in our bank account.” – Michael Johnson [44:45]

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Marriage & Wealth-building ([53:51])

• “There is value for men in marriage … Just our presence might bring the bag for you.” – AJ [55:32]
• Marriage isn’t just financial — also brings health and stability for Black men, “men are genuinely healthier when married.”

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Giving Back & Staying Grounded ([86:40])

• Michael values his roots, keeps ties with community mentors and “nontraditional” friends to stay grounded and effective.
  • "Sometimes you got to reach back." – Michael Johnson [88:15]
• Practical generosity: From buying cars for families to tipping restaurant workers thousands, BGCDC’s giving spirit is active and inclusive, not just internal.

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Memorable & Lighthearted Moments

• Credit Checks for Love:
  • Michael’s wife required credit, health, and ambition before taking him seriously ([34:05])
  • “She told me I couldn’t buy a bag of potato chips on credit…” – Michael Johnson
• "SIMP Story":
  • In a lighter segment, Michael confesses he was emotionally hurt when his now-wife went to see her ex (“her hair was a mess when she came back…”) and used that pain as motivation to get serious ([80:16]).
• Future Dreams:
  • He’s not chasing yachts, but interested in building generational wealth and lifting his family out of poverty through education and opportunity.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “Write out what it is you want to accomplish and take one step at a time.” – Michael Johnson [21:16]
• "Without margin, there's no mission.” – Michael Johnson [41:20]
• "Pay me what my white counterparts make, pay me no more, pay me no less. Let my performance speak for itself.” – Michael Johnson [46:57]
• "Love is about building together, not behind but side by side.” – Michael Johnson [53:25]
• “Married couples make 14% more in their net worth than those who are not married.” – Michael Johnson [54:05]
• "Sometimes you got to reach back." – Michael Johnson [88:15]

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Actionable Advice for Listeners

What is the bold first step to leading with audacity?
“Self reflection, introspective work…You can't pour into your future until you realize what's going on with you right now in the moment.” – Michael Johnson [84:05]

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How to Support / Get Involved

• Website: bgcdc.org — Donate, sponsor a youth, join a community initiative
• Book: "The Audacity to Lead" by Michael Johnson — available on Amazon (money-back guarantee!)
• Personal: mjohnsonceo.com — Learn more, watch Michael's talks, get leadership resources

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Final Reflections

This episode stands out as a blueprint for anyone – but especially Black listeners – seeking to lead audaciously while staying true to their roots. Michael Johnson exemplifies building legacy with love, strategic thinking, and community focus. Tam Bam and AJ bring signature wit and warmth, making complex issues relatable, actionable, and fun.

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Listen & Subscribe:
We Talk Back drops new episodes Thursdays via Black Effect & iHeartRadio
Instagram: @officialtambam | @ajholiday2.0
Support your local Boys and Girls Club!

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Transcript

[Tam Bam]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Michael Johnson]

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[Commercial Announcer]

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[Michael Johnson]

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[Michael Johnson]

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[Michael Johnson]

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[Commercial Announcer]

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[Wilmer Valderrama]

When you mix 1950s Hollywood, a Cuban musician with a dream, and one of the most iconic sitcoms of all time? You get Desi Arness on the podcast Star and Desi Arness and Wilmer Valderrama. I'll take you on a journey to Desi's life, how he redefined American television and what that meant for all of us watching from the sidelines, waiting for a face like ours on screen. Listen to starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer valderrama on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Michael Johnson]

Peace to the planet. Charlamagne Tha God here. Before we get into today's episode, we've got to celebrate the Black Effect Podcast network. It's turning five years old, man. Five years of powerful voices, unforgettable moments, and a community that keeps growing. This is the power of the platform. Now let's get into it.

[AJ Holiday]

Welcome to We Talk Back podcast, a production of iHeartRadio and the Black Effect Network.

[Tam Bam]

We're just two unapologetically black women with an opinion who. Talk back, y'. All. Before we get into today's guest, I just need to speak to y' all about something that's really been pulling at my heartstrings. We haven't been seeing a lot on it, but our brothers and sisters in Jamaica, they really going through it. Like, the news kind of has seemed to stop reporting on what's going on in Jamaica. But these people are without clothes. These people are without food. These people are without electricity. Their homes have been, like, completely washed away. And I have a friend there, and he. He works in tourism. And one of his employees, she is a woman, a single mother of four children, and her home was completely destroyed. And y', all, she has nothing. And he was on the phone with me, and he was crying talking about this because he don't even have a lot. He's trying to give her what he has, but he don't have shit to give her either. And when I spoke to him, it just really. It really upset me. And, you know, I just want to use this platform to try to seek some help, you know, like, even if y' all could send a dollar, two dollars, anything will help. It's a lot of us, and this is a black woman, and she really needs our help. I mean, if y' all can sacrifice something, I would greatly appreciate it to help this woman. And even if you want to actually send Goods. She has children. So this is. I got an address that y' all can send goods to if you want to send it straight to them. And it's. The address would be Hope Town. That's H o P e t o n e District, Hope Tone, Pod St. James, Montego Bay, Jamaica. W I. I'm gonna say that one more time. It's Michael Solomon, Hope Tone. H o p T o n e district, hope tone. P.O St. James, Montego Bay, Jamaica. W.I and I'm going to post on my story and in my. Excuse me, y', all in my bio where you can actually send a couple dollars. Y', all, please. We gotta help this black woman. And it's so many people that need help. But if you could sacrifice even just a couple dollars to help this black family right before the holidays, I would appreciate it. All right. I love y'. All. All right. We'll be with our guest in just a moment.

[Michael Johnson]

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[Commercial Announcer]

Yet, here are 15 reasons why you should.

[Michael Johnson]

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[Michael Johnson]

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[Wilmer Valderrama]

Are you.

[Commercial Announcer]

Are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right?

[Michael Johnson]

Okay, give it a try. @mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan. $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first three months only. Then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com I'm here with Spinquest where you can play and win from the comfort of your own home with hundreds of slot games and all of the table games you love with real cash prizes. Right now, $30 coin packs are on sale for $10. For new users, it's [e-mail] that's s p I n q u e s t.com SpinQuest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited.

[Commercial Announcer]

Visit spinquest.com for more details. Attention parents and grandparents. If you're looking for a gift that's more than just a toy, give them something that inspire and adventure all year long. Give them a Guardian bike, the easiest bike to learn on, safest to ride and the number one kids bike on the market. With USA made kid specific frames and patented safety technology, kids are learning to ride in just one day. No training wheels needed. It's why Guardian is America's favorite kids bike and the New York Times and Wirecutter's top pick three years in a row. This holiday season, Guardian is offering their biggest deal of the year. Over 40% in savings on all bikes, plus $100 in free accessories. Each bike arrives 99% assembled, so setup takes minutes, not hours. Whether it's their very first ride or their next big upgrade, Guardian makes every pedal feel safe, smooth and fun. Join over 500 happy families who've discovered the magic of Guardian. Visit guardianbikes.com to shop. Now that's guardianbikes.com what do you think.

[AJ Holiday]

Makes the perfect snack?

[Michael Johnson]

Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient.

[Tam Bam]

Could you be more specific when it's cravenient.

[Michael Johnson]

Okay, like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter, available right down the street at am, pm Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just a second at am, pm.

[Tam Bam]

I'm seeing a pattern here.

[Michael Johnson]

Well, yeah, we're talking about what I crave, which is anything from am, pm.

[Commercial Announcer]

What more could you want?

[Michael Johnson]

Stop by AMPM where the snacks and drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient. That's Cravenians. Am, pm. Too much good stuff.

[Wilmer Valderrama]

What do you get when you mix 1950s Hollywood, a Cuban musician with a dream, and one of the most iconic sitcoms of all time? You get Desi Arnaz, a trailblazer, a businessman, a husband, and maybe most importantly, the first Latino to break primetime wide open. I'm Willmer Valderrama. And yes, I grew up watching him, probably just like you and millions of others. But for me, I saw myself in his story.

[AJ Holiday]

From cleaning canary cages to this night.

[Wilmer Valderrama]

Here in New York, it's a long ways. On the podcast, starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama, I'll take you on a journey to Desi's life. The moments it has overlapped with mine. How he redefined American television and what that meant for all of us watching from the sidelines, waiting for a face like ours on screen. This is the story of how one man's spotlight led the path for so many others and how we carry his legacy. Today, listen to Starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Tam Bam]

All right, y'.

[AJ Holiday]

All. So today we have a very special guest on We Talk back. We have Mr. Michael Johnson. Okay? He is the CEO of the Boys and Girls Club. What's the city?

[Michael Johnson]

Dane County. Madison.

[AJ Holiday]

Dane County, Madison, Wisconsin.

[Michael Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, sorry.

[Tam Bam]

First of all, it's all good.

[Michael Johnson]

It's all good. I said the same thing when I first came here 16 years ago, Dane County.

[Tam Bam]

Are you the only black person in Wisconsin? I ain't even know.

[Michael Johnson]

It's a lot of black people here, and, well, we make up about 6% of the population. And so it's a tight niche black community here, but we're well represented.

[Tam Bam]

Are you from Wisconsin?

[Michael Johnson]

No, I'm from the west side of Chicago.

[Tam Bam]

Oh, that's right, Chicago.

[Michael Johnson]

So y' all need to come. We throw some dope parties up here. I do an all white party. And it's not just for white people. It's mainly black folks dressed up in all white. And we usually bring a bunch of celebrities down here. So every year, if you like Google, you'll see, like, Lorenz Tate and his brothers or Leon or Gladys Knight or one year I had Drew Hill. So we bring him out and we have a good time and we raise money for kids. And I hope y' all are coming hang out with us one summer.

[AJ Holiday]

We coming. When Lorenz Tate coming back, though. That's what I need.

[Michael Johnson]

Comes every year. I was. I was on his family foundation board for a couple of years. So he's been here probably four or five times in the last two years.

[AJ Holiday]

Okay.

[Tam Bam]

What's the weather like right now?

[Michael Johnson]

It's cold. Well, it's not like South Carolina, so it gets cold up here, but it's about 35 degrees right now.

[Tam Bam]

Okay. It's pretty. I mean, South Carolina gets cold. Don't get it twisted. We get cold weather, but just probably not Wisconsin cold.

[Michael Johnson]

Life is about, you know, exploring. I've lived all over the country. I lived in Chicago, I lived in Philadelphia. I lived in St. Louis. I've lived in Indianapolis. I lived in Cincinnati. You know, life is about experiences. So I think you'll come up here to Madison and probably never want to go back home.

[Tam Bam]

Oh, wow.

[AJ Holiday]

How did you like St. Louis? Because I lived in St. Louis for, like, four or five years, and, man, every morning I would wake up like, man, what the. Am I still here, like, in prison? You know what I'm saying?

[Michael Johnson]

Like, it depends on, like, I stayed in St. Louis for, I think I was there three years. And it's just about who you connected to. Right. Like, you can get to a city.

[AJ Holiday]

It's a lot of socialism, right?

[Michael Johnson]

It is, it is, it is. But I would say that's almost everywhere.

[AJ Holiday]

When I say that, I mean, like, it's not like, you know, some cities, like, we're from South Carolina, so we can Say, like, maybe it might be a little racist, but really, like St. Louis is about who has money and who doesn't. It's not really about skin color, race.

[Michael Johnson]

Yeah, I would say, I don't know, I've seen it at different levels in different cities. And again, it's kind of like how you allow people to define you, what circles that you're in. People told me not to come to Madison, Wisconsin because of X, Y and Z. And I'm the type of person, sometimes you just gotta follow your dreams and go where the calling is. Right. And so.

[AJ Holiday]

Absolutely.

[Michael Johnson]

And that's kind of like how I've just led my life. But I wouldn't say you're wrong, but I would say what you're saying. I've seen segments of it in other cities as well.

[Tam Bam]

So was it the Boys and Girls Club that brought you to Madison? Like, how did you get involved with the Boys and Girls Club?

[Michael Johnson]

So I actually grew up in the Boys and Girls Club and I talk about it in my book. So I grew up in a Boys and Girls Club on the west side of Chicago. It was Boys and Girls Clubs when I was working part time, when my mother didn't have health insurance, they raised the money to bury my mother. It was the Boys and Girls Clubs as a kid that kept me off the streets and I would say pretty much kept me alive. And I was also a kid that could not read, I could not write. And today I run a multi million dollar nonprofit organization in Madison, Wisconsin. So I was recruited here by Boys and Girls Clubs when I was a Deputy Commissioner for Parks and Recreation in the city of Philadelphia.

[AJ Holiday]

Amazing. So you guys, Mr. Johnson has a book. It's called the Audacity to Lead.

[Michael Johnson]

You can call me Michael.

[AJ Holiday]

Michael. Bold Mindsets and Nonprofit Impact.

[Michael Johnson]

Right? Well, yeah. So the title is the Audacity to Lead, and it's the Seven Mindset Lessons on Love, Family and Turning Adversity into Impact. And the subtitle is from the Projects to the C Suite.

[Tam Bam]

Hey, Period.

[Michael Johnson]

And I really focused the book on, I talk about all the adversity that I face, not being able to read and write to end up graduating and getting an mba, to going to Cornell University, to Harvard Business School and getting all these credentials and degrees to becoming a millionaire and losing that money in six months after I sue the university that I went to after the coaches dressed up in Ku Klux Klan, you know, outfits back in the 1990s. And I talk about that, you know, in the book, I talk about my friend BG who was killed, you know, right in front of the Boys and Girls Clubs. But I also talk about how I've raised $250 million over the last 25 years in multiple cities. I talk about how we raised money for Ahmaud Avery family when he was killed in Brunswick, Georgia. I talk about Michael Brown in St. Louis when the mayor and the Urban League CEO asked us to raise money, you know, for that family. I talk about the money that we raised for educational programs helping black and brown kids graduate from high school and go on to college. I talk about a whole bunch of different things, you know, in the book, but I also talk about love and leaving with passion. I talk about how I built the first statue of a black woman in our state capitol by the name of Val Phillips in the United States. Before last July, there was not one singular statue of a black woman anywhere in America on state Capitol grounds. And after the George Floyd, you know, protest, I talk about in the book how young activists challenged my leadership and pretty much for whatever reason.

[AJ Holiday]

Young black activists.

[Michael Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, young black activists. And I'll tell you why I talk about it in the book. And so what came out of that? They challenged me and said, there's no black representation at our state capitol. And now there's a million dollar statue of a woman by the name of Val Phillips. She was the first woman in the country to ever be named to a national political party. She was the first woman in the country to be named to a statewide office. And she was the first black woman of many different things here in Wisconsin. So I knew, while it took us four years to get it done, last July we were able to erect this statue and we made history in the United States. And I talk about that in the book.

[Tam Bam]

It's crazy for it to be that many firsts for this black woman and us not have known her name. Right.

[AJ Holiday]

I don't, you know, yeah, look her up.

[Michael Johnson]

Her name is Val R. Phillips. She was appointed by John F. Kennedy to the Democratic National Committee and the first of any colored woman, any woman. And she just happened to be a woman of color to be elected to a statewide office. And she did all this in the 60s and 70s. It was pretty amazing.

[Tam Bam]

And we ain't got a movie about this woman. It's crazy.

[Michael Johnson]

Yeah, it's all kind of documentaries on her.

[Tam Bam]

Vel R. Phillips.

[AJ Holiday]

So in your book, you talk about the seven mindset lessons. Can you list those for us? Because I want to talk about.

[Michael Johnson]

Yeah. So in. In the chat, in the in. I should have sent you all a copy of the book. So it's really. I broke that down by.

[AJ Holiday]

We should have bought one.

[Michael Johnson]

Sorry. You know, it's on Amazon and I hope y' all are read it. So really, it's a lot of good stuff in there. So. Chapter one, the first mindset, is about the urgency of now and pretty much unleashing your purpose and making the best of what you got in your situation. Chapter two, I focus on, like, how to expand your horizon and surrounding yourself with role models and believing in a bigger vision in your life. And I give examples through adversity on how I accomplished that as a. As a nonprofit leader. Chapter three.

[AJ Holiday]

So chapter one, power of now, Right?

[Tam Bam]

Yeah.

[Michael Johnson]

Yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

That is what I struggle with, you know, because tomorrow and next week are killers. Somebody. I'll do it tomorrow. I'll do it Monday. Monday and tomorrow. So how do you. How do. How does. What would your advice be to someone to do it now? You know, start where you are.

[Michael Johnson]

Yeah. So I will first go back to. There were people that would tell me, like, I knew I wanted to be a CEO, and there was people that would tell me, because of my circumstances and because you rarely see black people running multimillion dollar organizations, that it was very slim. So back when I would say in my early 20s, I was still running the streets in Chicago. And at that time, I couldn't read and write, but I knew that I wanted to do something with my life. I saw my friends being killed. I seen them getting life sentences in Chicago, and I just didn't want that to be me. So I. My what I would say, AJ is one step at a time. Right? You know, life is a marathon. You're not going to, like, knock it out the park right away, but you have to swing the bat. And some days you'll hit, you'll get on first base. Some days you might strike out. Some days you'll get on second base, and some days you'll hit a goddamn grand slam. And. But you gotta. I'm sorry for Curtis, and I apologize.

[AJ Holiday]

No, Curtis a lot.

[Tam Bam]

Did you really listen to our show?

[Michael Johnson]

I actually did. I really did. Yeah, I did. I was on a panel yesterday, and I slipped up and I was like, ugh. And I was a pastor was on the panel with me, and I was like, oh, my God, I'm sorry. So I would say that it's just all about swinging the bat. And whatever your goals are always telling, whether it's my colleagues or young people that's around me, like, what's your mission? And what's your, what's your vision for your life? Right? So if there's somewhere that you want to be five years from now, did you write it out? Did you map it out? What's your intersections to get into your, your destination? And I always try to do that. And I would say that would be, that would be my advice. Write out what it is you want to accomplish and take one step at a time.

[AJ Holiday]

Yeah, I literally wake up every morning, I'd be chanting, do it now. Like just to get to the gym. Just do it now, do it now, do it now. Because I'll bullshit.

[Michael Johnson]

You know, and we all struggle with that, right? Just speaking like the jam, you know, I was, I went for a 2 mile walk this morning and I got up at 5 o', clock, but I actually didn't start until 8. And I was like, oh my gosh. Should just got out there early and it's just, it's difficult. But as you know, once you start and you get into a cycle of it, you know, you'll just get, you'll just get used to it. And that's the same with careers, right? You get into these roles. Finance might be something that you may not be good with. Marketing or public speaking, whatever that is, take whatever steps you are to craft your, your field. I mean, I look at what you all are doing. I watched your shows and y' all are very entertaining, very funny. Y' all talk about some really, really good content. It kept my attention. Like I said with you earlier, I was up to midnight last night. I rarely stay up to midnight watching anybody's show, so. So y' all got what it take and, and it seemed like y' all building up your base, building up your content. It's pretty amazing what y' all are doing.

[Tam Bam]

Thank you.

[AJ Holiday]

Yeah, it takes a lot of commitment.

[Tam Bam]

Boy, it does.

[AJ Holiday]

So what's one mental habit that you think could possibly be holding back some black leaders or people who are aspiring? Because I remember when I worked, also I work a corporate job now, but before my boss asked me like, what I wanted to be, what I wanted to be, what I wanted to do within the corporation. Right. Because she said she always knew she wanted to be the boss. I don't necessarily want to manage people. Right. I am good at managing processes. Right. So what's one mindset that you think may be hindering a lot of, you know, people who think they're the boss?

[Michael Johnson]

Yeah, I would say, like, if you're trying to move up the corporate ladder, one things that I learned is that you have to be like, if you're always the smartest person in the room, you're probably not growing. And so I think about. I told somebody the other day when I was on this yesterday, I was on this panel, and they said, you know, I'm on TV a lot here in Madison, Wisconsin, and people assume that I only hang out with high net worth individuals because of all of the resources that we raise for kids and their families. And what I've actually told them is that, you know, some of my friends include people with GEDs, PhDs, and everything in between, from high net worth individuals to people who are still drug dealers and gang bangers. And I learned from each one of them. And because when I learn from them, I then can bring those two worlds together. I say all that to say, AJ Is that you have to put yourself in different environments to grow. And so I'll give an example. When I moved to Madison, Wisconsin, one of the first parties I got invited to was a fun party. And I was like. And it was a donor. And I was like, God, I want to go to this shit.

[AJ Holiday]

A farm party.

[Michael Johnson]

A farm party. And so, you know, they'd be hunting. I never heard of a farm party. So I automatically judged what I thought a farm party was gonna be. I'm like, it's gonna be some sheep and cows and shotguns. And I get out there, man, these folks had a live band. They had. There was four wheelers, and I'm out there, like, going through the mud. And they had. They had a barbecue out there. It was. It was lit. And I was like, I was one of the last people to leave. And so.

[AJ Holiday]

And that night, you helped clean up.

[Michael Johnson]

That night, that family. Well, since I've been to that event, that family has helped me raise a million dollars, you know, since, you know, since coming here 16 years ago. 50,000 here, 100,000 there. And so I would just say you always got to just be willing to put yourself out there and go into different environments if you're going to grow.

[AJ Holiday]

Absolutely.

[Tam Bam]

Chapter three, what were you saying? You were giving us the seven.

[Michael Johnson]

Yeah. So chapter three, you know, the Academy of Adversity. Forging Tragedy and Turning Pain into Power. Right. We all go through some sort of pain. Whether it's a sibling or a parent dying or you getting fired at work or whatever it is. We all deal with some sort of pain. In the book, I talk about the pain that we experience and not letting pain and adversity set you back. In my case, you know, I talked about this Ku Klux Klan incident when I was at a university and the coaches dressed up in Ku Klux Klan outfits and. Yeah, it's all in the book. And it's. And it made national news back in the 90s.

[AJ Holiday]

Did you sign an NDA? Can you say the school's name or what?

[Michael Johnson]

What I will say if you go to my website.

[AJ Holiday]

Okay.

[Michael Johnson]

The school actually invited me back 30 years later. This happened in 1993. And if you go to mjohnsonceo.com I actually posted the video of me at this school talking about the incident.

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[Michael Johnson]

And Doug.

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[Michael Johnson]

Liberty. Liberty Savings. Very unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company Affiliates excludes Massachusetts.

[Wilmer Valderrama]

What do you get when you mix 1950s Hollywood, a Cuban musician with a dream, and one of the most iconic sitcoms of all time? You get Desi Arnaz, a trailblazer, a businessman, a husband, and maybe most importantly, the first Latino to break primetime wide open. I'm Wilmer Valderrama. And yes, I grew up watching him. Probably just like you and millions of others. But for me, I saw myself in his story.

[AJ Holiday]

From cleaning canary cages to. To this night here in New York.

[Wilmer Valderrama]

It's a long ways on the podcast starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama. I'll take you on a journey to Desi's life, the moments it has overlapped with mine. How he redefined American television and what that meant for all of us watching from the sidelines, waiting for a face like ours on screen. This is the story of how one man's spotlight led the path for so many others and how we carry his legacy today. Listen to Starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama as part of the Micultura Podcast Network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[AJ Holiday]

Did she say Johnny? The kids didn't come home last night.

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[Wilmer Valderrama]

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[AJ Holiday]

There are people out there that absolutely know what happened.

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[Tam Bam]

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[Michael Johnson]

So at first I wouldn't have talked about it because I don't know what I signed when I was 18 years old. But since the school has talked about it, they've invited me back. I didn't name this school in the book because I do think eventually they did the right thing by me. And I always told people that the coach went to jail, the students went to jail, and I came home with a boatload of money and I bought a truck, I bought some rims, I bought a bunch of speakers, gave, I started a record label, I bought a restaurant, I got into a little bit of entrepreneurship in Chicago on the streets. And six months later, I was broke.

[AJ Holiday]

Sounds about right.

[Michael Johnson]

Yeah. And I thought about committing suicide because I couldn't believe that I went through all that money. And I was thankful that I had people in my life, including my wife, who encouraged me to go back to school and to do something with my life. And it ended up taking me. I ended up going to Malcolm X junior college. And Malcolm X junior college wouldn't even accept me at their school because that's where I learned I couldn't read and write at proficiency. And then ultimately, it took me four and a half years to get an associate's degree. So that was one example where I talked about adversity and how I got through that pain and how I fought through it to ultimately become one of the most successful boys and girls club leaders in the country.

[AJ Holiday]

Amazing. So this is a prime example of, you know, a lot of black folks, they're fighting for reparations all the time. We are owed a lot of reparations, a lot of money. But without the financial literacy, we will literally, collectively give that money back to the system and within 24 hours.

[Michael Johnson]

So you.

[AJ Holiday]

You got $1 million. You obviously easily attract money, okay, 18 years old, $1 million. But without that financial literacy, you ended up in the same. In the same predicament.

[Michael Johnson]

Oh, yeah. Let me. Let me just say this. It was a. It was a blessing, because what I learned is that I didn't earn that money, so I didn't respect it. And that's why I went back to school and got all my degrees in business, a master's in business, a bachelor's in business. I have all these business certifications because what happened when you don't understand how to do financial projections, don't know how to. Don't understand profit and loss, revenue and expenses, finance the financial acumen. I don't care what you do in life, whether it's for profit, nonprofit, your own business, or your life, you gotta have business in life. You gotta have business acumen. So I told myself that if I ever was put in a position again, that I would never make that mistake again, and I never have.

[Tam Bam]

So you said that your wife encouraged you to go back to school. How young were you at that time when your wife was like, baby, just go back to school?

[Michael Johnson]

So my. My. My mindset was not really at a good place then. My wife was a. A chemist, and she went to the University of Minnesota. So my. And she was from the south side of Chicago. She grew up in a household where she had both Parents. My mindset was, if I got her pregnant, I could move in with her mom and live in their empty basement. That was my game plan. She was a chemist. She was doing well in school. I knew if she a chemist coming out of college would probably make 70, $80,000 a year. So she was my. That was my meal ticket, right? And she. And I got bamboozled, right? So she was like, nope, that's not gonna happen. And she really encouraged me. At the time, I was running the streets. She was like, I'm really not going to lay down with you until I run your credit. She made me take a health exam, so I had to go take an AIDS test and get all my blood work done. And then she ran my credit, and she told me I couldn't buy a bag of potato chips on credit and that she couldn't really get serious with a guy unless he was standing on business. And that's why I enrolled in Malcolm X that time. I was, like, madly in love and.

[AJ Holiday]

Was like, power of the pee. He ain't even got a touch yet. These niggas to do every and anything. Just don't give up the cookies, okay?

[Michael Johnson]

I wasn't gonna miss that opportunity, so I did what I had to do. And so I enrolled my ass in school and I figured it out. And thankfully, I was in a position where I've been able to earn a really good living. My wife was able to take seven years off work and take off our kids, and I was able to take care of her during that time. And we've done well for ourselves.

[AJ Holiday]

All right, y', all, don't try this at home. Be careful, okay? Because not everybody is going to end up like Michael, okay? Results may vary.

[Tam Bam]

So true, But I think running the nigga credit is a good idea before you sleep with them like that is. Listen, she was awesome.

[Michael Johnson]

I thought she was. I thought she was crazy. I was like. I was like. I didn't care. I was like. I didn't really know what credit was, right? And so I was like, run whatever you want. She was, I need your Social Security number. I didn't even know my Social Security, so I had to go to my mama. And my mama was like, what do you need it for? I was too embarrassed to tell my mama I was giving it to this girl. I could get them pleasant. Yeah, they make you do strange things, for sure.

[AJ Holiday]

No, that's amazing, man. Like, we need to definitely adopt that.

[Tam Bam]

Okay?

[Michael Johnson]

So I do talk a lot about her in this book, because just being straight up, I Think I would still be running the streets if it wasn't for her. And she was the first woman, like, where I grew up at, people didn't go to weddings, right? Like, we got married in the neighborhood boys and girls club or in the neighborhood, like Rome in our building. Or you went to city hall and you just got your little certificate and that was it. So she started taking to me, like, these fancy weddings where 3, 400 people in these banquet halls. I had never seen anything like that. She started taking me to plays like I had never been to. Like, she took me to a Tyler Perry play, and I was like, what is this?

[AJ Holiday]

Is your wife black?

[Michael Johnson]

Huh? She black?

[Tam Bam]

She's definitely black.

[Michael Johnson]

This is a picture of her. She is. She's a black woman. I don't know if you can see.

[Tam Bam]

Okay. Yes, a sister. When he said she was from the south side, I knew she was black immediately.

[Michael Johnson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

Does she come from, like, a. What is all the south side of Chicago, like, bad?

[Michael Johnson]

Is that nice changing? Right? You got Hyde park, where Barack Obama, you know, live. It's a very, like, affluent community. But then you got pockets of the south side that's very, very dangerous. But my wife grew up on, like, right around 95th and Halstead. And that community is also starting to shift. But the time that she was living there, I saw it as an upper middle class community. That's what it felt like to me because I'm like, man, they got a house. They got three, four bedrooms, basement, mom and dad working. That's going to be my new place of residency.

[Tam Bam]

So that's like, that's where my family. That's exactly, like, that's not too far from where my family grew up. And they were, like, in a home. They had a house. It was both parents there. Like, but there was some rough spots over there. Like, it wasn't all.

[Michael Johnson]

It is. It is. I mean, my wife, brother was killed right in front of their house. Shot right in the head. So it's. It's challenging, but it's not as bad as the west side of Chicago. And I think most Chicago winners would say that.

[AJ Holiday]

Y', all. Let me turn my light on right quick. It's getting darker quick. Quicker than I thought.

[Commercial Announcer]

Hold on.

[Michael Johnson]

It's getting darker.

[AJ Holiday]

Go ahead, keep going.

[Tam Bam]

Okay, so continue with the seven. You were at five.

[Michael Johnson]

Oh, so. So then we're on. So chapter four, I talk about embracing the courage and acting and committed to a life of growth. In chapter five, I talk about the unbreakable spirit and how grit transforms tough times into, like turning points. And I give examples of all this. And in the book, I have these reflection questions in each chapter, right? So I didn't want to just make this into like a biography. I wanted it as a blueprint. So for if somebody's starting a business, if somebody trying to take their podcast, another podcast, but the podcast or whatever, to the next level, they also say there's a business side of it and this is how you can scale it. This is how you raise money. Here's how you nurture and steward relationships to get people to invest in what you're doing. And I talk about that. And then in chapter six, I talk about strategic connections. Right? You can never do this work by yourself. Right? So I think about, you know, Tam and A.J. y' all are doing this together, but I'm pretty sure there's some people behind the scenes that's also supporting what you all are doing and what I've learned. It might be a spouse, it might be who. I don't know. It's. Somebody gotta be like, I don't know if they got kids. Somebody gotta be helping y' all do something.

[AJ Holiday]

We be trying. We be trying to find.

[Tam Bam]

We need some of that Boys and Girls Club money behind this.

[Michael Johnson]

You need to come. You need to come. Here's what I would say in July when I have my white party. I think I'm gonna bring new edition this year and y' all should come down, right?

[AJ Holiday]

Absolutely. I'm having me a non profit before I get there, though.

[Michael Johnson]

You know, Say it again.

[AJ Holiday]

I said I'm gonna create me a non profit right before we get there. So I can get some donations. Okay.

[Michael Johnson]

Or you could do some crowdfunding. Right? Y' all got. I've seen some of the views I got. You know, I've seen thousands of people. Y' all views. So people are watching you all. You can't be afraid to act and ask people to support your. Your content. And y' all got good. If y'.

[Tam Bam]

All.

[Michael Johnson]

Let me tell you this, if y' all show was on some bullshit, I would have called Steve O. And be like, I'm not really interested. But y' all got a good show and I think y' all got a good thing going on. All right? And then the. The last chapter is the. The epics and the aftermath. Building legacy that outlives your lifetime. As I've matured into my role, what I've learned is really without margin, there's no mission. You know, and for years you see whether it's church based Organizations or smaller organizations doing these like little mini fish fry dinners. That stuff is not sustainable. So what I've learned is to try to build endowments and raise enough money where the interest income can sustain the work that you're doing. So for example, you know, if I was to show you this building that I'm in now, we just built this building three years ago and we raised $35 million in 16 months. And it's the largest youth workforce center in the history of Boys and Girls Clubs of America. And it's probably the best looking office, best looking nonprofit, I would say, in the state. It's really remarkable what we have here. But it was casting a vision and putting the right team around you to be to go out and get the resources that you need.

[AJ Holiday]

Yeah, fundraising is definitely a skill set I would love to acquire because like it takes. You have to put on, do you not when you meeting people, you have.

[Michael Johnson]

To have you know what. But I'm sorry, you'll get used to it, right? So I'll give an example. Right. So I was in this program at Harvard Business School. And you know, I knew I wanted to, like, I was like, am I really gonna learn something? Do I really want to spend time in this program? And I ended up doing it because I got the scholarship to go. And I was so inspired. There was this guy in Indonesia. It was a case study that we were learning. And this Indonesia, this doctor from Indonesia was an eye doctor. And back then there was this epidemic of people going blind in their country. And everybody had these little small micro clinics that systemically was not solving anything. This man was like, I'm going to build like $100 million hospital. I'm going to mortgage my home and I'm going to figure it out.

[AJ Holiday]

And he built never use your own money.

[Michael Johnson]

I know I would never do that. But it was a powerful story and it inspired me. At that time, I was thinking about building this facility and our goal was a million. And I went back that night and I said, I'm taking this go to like $35 million. And I laid out a blueprint and we went out and we raised it in 16 months. And so I say all that to say the first call I made was to a wealthy woman by the name of Pleasant Rowland. I don't know if you are, if you all are familiar with American Girl dolls. They're really famous all over the United States. And those dowels were made right here in Middleton, Wisconsin. So I found her phone number. I got it from somebody. I reached out to her. I didn't know if she was gonna respond or not. She responded just like all three of us is on this call. I got on a Zoom call with her, and three days later, we had $5 million sitting in our bank account. I just simply made the X and I sold her on the vision. And then her husband turned around and gave us a million three days later.

[Tam Bam]

I just need to know what you be saying, because 35 million in how many months?

[Michael Johnson]

16 months.

[Tam Bam]

16 months. That's impressive. I need to follow you around. You got the gift of gab. And I think money is attracted to you too.

[Michael Johnson]

No, but y' all got the gift of gab, too. I've watched y' all show. There wasn't one minute that it was boring, which made me go look at other content y' all had. So I saw all of it, all of it, and it's really good content. So you got the gift of gab. It's how you take your craft and continue to sharpen it. Right. So I talked about all these different programs I've been in at Harvard Business School, at Cornell University, at the center of philanthropy. It might just be. If philanthropy is a route you want to go to help raise money for your platform, you might have to take your platform from being a for profit entity to a non profit entity and making it more educational based. Right. Then you can apply for grants, then you can create a board, then you can ask people to make donations and they can get a tax write off for that. And so it can be done. And plus, both of y' all got a great smile. Y' all got a great smile. Yeah. It's just a matter of settling your vision. Y' all could be the next whoever, right? The next Oprah, the next millionaires. It all starts somewhere.

[AJ Holiday]

Yeah, I definitely. I wanted to speak to you because I do have an idea for a nonprofit and I don't know where to start. And I think it's a great idea. And I need help just a little bit. If I can borrow a little bit of your time. But what. What is some of the things that maybe the public misunderstands about non profit leaderships? Like somebody in your position, CEO? Because I see a lot of articles online about people's salary. Like, yeah, yeah, I think you're so. I don't believe in the pole popper. You know, I feel like you should be paid well for whatever it is you do. If I was a church girly, like, I want my church to be rich. You know what I'm Saying like prosperity.

[Michael Johnson]

I look at it, you know, you get what you pay for. You want to pay somebody $30,000, you're gonna get $30,000 worth of work. But I've always shared with my board, I don't set my salary. We have a hundred, we have 38 board members and 70 something people on our committees. So in reality, I have a hundred plus bosses. And what I've asked my board is to pay me what my white counterparts make. Pay me no more, pay me no less. And let my performance speak for itself. Now, you're right, there are people who criticize CEOs for their salaries, but I made no different than what other CEOs make. And I also.

[AJ Holiday]

It's because you're black. Right? That's the problem.

[Michael Johnson]

No, you know what? Yeah. I think sometimes people see black leaders in these roles and people criticize you. Right. Especially when you are a vocal, verbal, intelligent CEO that stand on his or her business. People will always attack you. And that's okay. But like when people look up my salary or look up my charity, my audience is clean. Every year we are a four star Charity Navigator rating, which only about 20% of nonprofits in the country, you know, get that. And every year our balance, our balance sheet gets stronger. When I started at Boys and Girls clubs, we had 18 employees. I now have close to 200. When I started, we only had about a million dollars in the bank. Now we have close to $30 million in net assets. And so people can criticize it, but the results speak for itself. There's not another program that's graduating more black and brown kids in this state than I am. I have 1,100 kids that's in college right now in 25 cities across the United States. Wisconsin has the largest racial achievement gap in the country. 99% of my kids are graduating from high school and they're going, come on. Okay, so people could talk all that crap they want, but the results is where it counts.

[AJ Holiday]

Absolutely.

[Tam Bam]

AJ he said, I don't. I make the same thing as every other CEO. All I heard was, no, for real.

[AJ Holiday]

Because the goodwill. Good. I think the CEO of Goodwill, they make like half a million dollars, you know, over a half a million dollars, six hundred and something thousand dollars a year.

[Wilmer Valderrama]

Yeah.

[Michael Johnson]

Some of those guys are running 80, 90 million dollar budgets. No different than our corporate counterparts. Right. So if you have a non profit that's running an 80, 90 million dollar organization and there's some CEOs that run companies that have 20 million dollar. They do 20 million in revenue, and their CEOs make a million dollars and so up or more. And so how I look at it is this is how I share this with my board. When I think about pay equity, it's not just about the CEO. It's about your entire team. In my organization, we give our employees sabbaticals. So our employees. You work five years from us, we will pay you to take four months off, and you can go anywhere you want. And we're still going to pay you so you can have time to be with your family and your friends. We're going to also pay you. Not based on what nonprofit leaders make locally. We benchmark our salaries across all nonprofits across the country to make sure that our people are paid here. Well, when people leave me with my vice president, I have 11 vice presidents. When they leave me, most of them go on to universities. Some of them are foundation presidents now. Some of them run their own businesses. One was a vice chancellor of a university. And I can go on and on and on. And it's not about just the CEO. It's about taking care of of all your people. Because in this space, there's so much turnover in management and the direct care staff positions, their families need to see consistent leadership in the lives of the families that they serve.

[AJ Holiday]

Absolutely. So I know you mentioned love. You talk about love in your book, right?

[Michael Johnson]

Yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

So, damn. What the hell was my question? Sorry. How do you balance. How do you balance being a CEO and your family, being a husband, all those good things.

[Tam Bam]

A father. You say you have kids.

[Michael Johnson]

Yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

And what has it taught you? Like, what has it taught you about, like, love and patience?

[Michael Johnson]

So I've always. I'm gonna first say I had my. Before I agreed to do y' all show, I had my son, who's a hip hop artist, and he's becoming fairly famous. And I said, look at they page and let me know. And his exact words were, dad, they dope as shit. You should go on. And that was his exact words. And he's a junior in college at the University of Cincinnati, and he goes by MKE3X. And he just did a music video in Atlanta with the Concrete Boys, who is part of, I think Young Gotti or one of them. Right. So what I've learned is that people, I hear some people say there's never balance when you're a CEO. And that's bullshit. Like, you can work all your life and make good money, but if you're alone and unhealthy, it means nothing. Because when your life is over. You can't take your house, you can't take your cars, and you can't take your money to wherever you're going in the afterlife, Right? So early on, I did not get that. I would come to work and I watched. I remember when my son was born, I didn't know if I was going to be able to take care of him, but I didn't want to be a deadbeat dad like my dad. And so I committed to working as hard as I could to try to work hard for my family. Now I make sure that my team. I don't call my team members on weekends. I don't call them at nighttime. And when I do, if I send them a text, I schedule it for six or seven o' clock in the morning, so I'm not bothering or taking them away from their family. I also schedule date weekends and nights with my wife without the kids. So we are doing stuff together so as we get older, we don't lose interest in each other. There's a lot of temptation that's out here. And people. Marriages fall apart, you know, all the time. And I always.

[AJ Holiday]

Especially when people know your salary.

[Michael Johnson]

People come at you, right?

[Tam Bam]

Yeah.

[Michael Johnson]

And so what I've tried to do is I always honor my wife at every time I can, at different events, I try my best to honor her, you know, in this book, because what we've built, we built it together. I didn't do it by myself. I built it with a queen that stood not behind me, but side by side with me as we've given back our time and our talent and our treasure back to our community.

[Tam Bam]

Y' all hear that, fellas? Get you a wife.

[AJ Holiday]

I was just about to say. I was just about to say that. Because, you know, in the black community, people really think you can build legacy and generational wealth by yourself. It doesn't work like that.

[Michael Johnson]

So in the. I'm sorry. In the book, aj, I talk about. I actually talk about that, right? And there's a. There's research that show married couples make 14% more in their net worth than those who are not married, Right? And you think about it, right? You know, at one point, like, let's think about it. If it's two of you all and y' all are splitting all the bills, and if you're living beneath or at your means, that means you should be in a position to put away 30 or 40% of your income if y' all both are working towards the same goals, right? Some couples will be together for 12, 1314 years, somebody's rent, 1800, somebody else rent is 2500. When y' all could be living together and sharing those bills and reinvesting that money and making 9, 10% every year. Then over the decade, you look up, Damn, I saved 150, 200, 300, 400, $500,000. And people got to learn, you can't go at this by yourself. That's my advice. But you also got to have the right partner, too. Right. I've seen on both sides, I've seen some of my male friends be hurt by women, and I've seen a lot of family members and females that are in my life be hurt by men. So you got to find the right person that you are equally yoked with to get ahead.

[AJ Holiday]

Absolutely.

[Tam Bam]

Amen to that.

[AJ Holiday]

There is value for men in marriage. Okay. Is to sum it up for the niggas who think they gonna get that m by themselves, Mama's women literally come with a loaf of bread. Just our presence might bring. Bring the bag for you.

[Michael Johnson]

Yeah. And men are genuinely healthier, too, when they're married. Right. It's. And there's all kind of research out there that backs that. That backs that up. And I know sometimes, you know, especially, I mean, both is men and women. Right. People. We live in a society where people are not disciplined, and we're not disciplined, and you get in trouble. And so I've learned that I don't put myself in situations that will cause any to jeopardize my marriage or my relationship with my family. I definitely don't want to lose my kids. I don't want to lose my family, and I also don't want to damage my reputation by trying to have 35, 40 minutes of pleasure.

[AJ Holiday]

Do you have, like, other men that are also, like, married, you know, business owners? Because I think that also kind of helps keep men in line. Right. Instead of you hanging out with all your single homeboys, you know, you're. You have a group of men who are on the same page. Family men, essentially.

[Michael Johnson]

Yeah. You are. Your circle, right. There are friends of mine who do different things, who are single, whether it's going out of the country or going to different types of clubs. I cannot.

[AJ Holiday]

Bros. Yeah.

[Michael Johnson]

I cannot go to those types of things with them as a married man. And so it's like, hey, if you want to meet me, you got to meet me at a Chicago Bulls game or a Bucks game or. I don't want to put myself. Myself in that environment. So I do typically try to hang with married men, and but there's also some married men and married women who ain't really married. They just married. They playing games. And you know who those people are after having a couple of conversations with them. So I try not to. You know, again, I'm a very imperfect person. Marriage is not easy. Me and my wife been married 23 years, and we've had our ebbs and flows, and it's just. It is what it is, but you gotta work. You gotta continue to work at it.

[Tam Bam]

Okay.

[AJ Holiday]

Yeah. So we want to do like a little quick. Little rapid fire, little quick questions. Okay.

[Michael Johnson]

Y' all didn't give me no heads up on the questions. I don't know. I'm scared now.

[Tam Bam]

These are.

[Michael Johnson]

I literally just came up with.

[AJ Holiday]

I'm be honest.

[Michael Johnson]

I literally just.

[AJ Holiday]

No, we never give anybody, like, outline or a heads up. You know, we kind of got our little talking points. But, yeah, I love it. It's better.

[Michael Johnson]

I just told Steve, I said, just remind them that I'm the CEO of Boys and Girls Clubs. So. So just. Just keep that in mind. But I. I'll answer any question.

[Tam Bam]

These are. These are very.

[AJ Holiday]

The simp story for me. And like that. Now, we let you see you or not. We still need a simp story at the end of the episode, so. No, yeah, we need that.

[Tam Bam]

We need that.

[AJ Holiday]

No, these are regular.

[Tam Bam]

Yeah, these are regular questions.

[Michael Johnson]

I'm just messing with y'. All. Any question? I don't have a problem answering. I'm an open book. I don't have a problem answering any question.

[AJ Holiday]

All right, so audacity or faith? Which one of these things get hard?

[Tam Bam]

No wins.

[AJ Holiday]

Oh, yeah. Audacity or faith? Which one wins when things get hard? There you go.

[Michael Johnson]

Faith. I would just say that, you know, I am a man of faith. I believe in God, and when times get tough. I'm not super religious, but I know when you're covered and when you've gone through things that I've been through. I know the only reason I'm standing here today is because there's a God. So I would say faith.

[AJ Holiday]

Absolutely. And Tam got dropped off a second. She'll be back.

[Michael Johnson]

I think I put her asleep. She's like, he talked too damn much.

[AJ Holiday]

Hell, no. This is a great interview. All right, so leading or following, which is harder to do?

[Michael Johnson]

Well, I would say in order to lead, you have to learn to follow. And once you're a leader, sometimes you still have to follow, because good leadership is about pouring into other people and allowing other people to lead. So good leaders have to Be good followers even when they're in a leadership position.

[Tam Bam]

Okay, next question. What's one leadership lesson you learn the hard way?

[Michael Johnson]

When I was on this panel yesterday, I gave an example. When you start a new organization or you're in a new job and you're a new leader, you always should do a SWOT analysis and really listen. Don't go in there telling people, these are your dreams. This is what you're going to change. Because if you go in there guns blazing, you might come out as a casualty and get buried before you even start. And so I always tell people, if you're leading a new department, if you're a new leader, go in, meet with all your stakeholders, meet with the. The employees, meet with your clients. Understand what the issues are. If there's a person that you replace, call that person and learn as much as you can, and just seek understanding instead of being understood.

[Tam Bam]

You ain't answered the question. You ain't answered the question, though.

[AJ Holiday]

So.

[Tam Bam]

No, that makes sense. What's one leadership lesson you learned the hard way? So what happens?

[AJ Holiday]

Oh, you said you did win a SWAT analysis, which is your strengths, opportunities, and threats.

[Michael Johnson]

Right? So. So I didn't finish it. So I answered it halfway by saying, right, so see, see, see, A.J. she fell asleep on me. I did not.

[Tam Bam]

I just didn't hear. I didn't hear where. I didn't hear where that happened at. Like, where was you at? Like, you didn't tell the story. So.

[Michael Johnson]

So the. So the incident. I would say when I started here 16 years ago, my boys and girls clubs all look like country clubs for kids. They're bright, they're clean, they're beautiful. But when I first got here, one of our clubs was really dark. It was gloomy. And when I got here, I said, throw everything out. Throw out everything. And I really pissed off a lot of people, and about a third of the staff quit on me because I was making too many changes too fast. I also learned that being a large black male, and I gave this example yesterday. I was on this panel. There was a woman who worked for me, and I thought she was really fragile. Every time I would be on the phone, I would come out of my office and she would be crying. I'm like, why the hell are you crying? And she was like, every time you raise your voice, it just.

[AJ Holiday]

It triggers me. Karen. Karen.

[Michael Johnson]

So I'm like. So I went to hr, and I was like, get her out of here. So I got to thinking. I said, why is my voice triggering her? So I sat down with her because I wanted to seek understanding. And what I didn't realize is that she was in a domestic violence violence relationship for over a decade, and her husband resembled me. And from what how she described it was just as loud as me. And so I grew up in a household where everybody's just scream and we're loud. We're just loud individuals. So what I've learned is that I had to temper my enthusiasm or when I got elevated, I now go in my car and I scream at people. I don't do it in my office anymore.

[AJ Holiday]

Good stuff. Okay, so fill in the blank. Real leadership is.

[Michael Johnson]

Caring, giving, and giving back to those who are around you.

[Tam Bam]

Okay, good answer.

[AJ Holiday]

Okay.

[Tam Bam]

All right, number five, we only got a couple more. So you can see you sweat. I see you sweating a little bit.

[Michael Johnson]

All right, now take your time. Tam.

[AJ Holiday]

You ain't got to tell the people what number we on next.

[Tam Bam]

I'm good.

[Michael Johnson]

I love it.

[Tam Bam]

Number five, if your younger self walked into a room right now, what would you tell him?

[Michael Johnson]

That's a good hustler. That's a good one. There was years that I used to be a car thief, and those years were very, very challenging in many ways. And I wish early on in my life, I would have turned that switch before I met this woman of mine. And I wish I would have found some mentors around me that would have intervened earlier, because I feel like I got a later start in life because of some of the things I was doing back when I was in my late teens and early twenties.

[AJ Holiday]

What's your personal definition of success today?

[Michael Johnson]

I would say. I would say it's threefold. I'm gonna say one, my family first and foremost, and really measuring how healthy my family is and how we interact and support one another. So I would say that's one target of mine. Then I would say, on the business side, my work at boys and girls clubs, in terms of the resources that we raise, are we really impacting young people lives? Are they graduating from high school? Are they going on to college? Are they graduating and becoming medical doctors and lawyers? And are we seeing it and are we tracking it? And that's the other thing. And then I would say, now that I've just turned 50, it's health related. Right. You know, every year I go to the Mayo Clinic, which is the number one, I think, the number one hospital in the country, and I go and get executive physicals done to make sure that, you know, I'm checking all my blood levels and making sure that I'm Okay. As you do this work. Because when you raise money for challenged communities, there's a lot of challenges that come with it, Attacks that come with it, jealousy that come with, envy that comes with it. And you got to be prepared and ready all the time.

[AJ Holiday]

Are you. Are you insured? I mean.

[Michael Johnson]

Yes.

[AJ Holiday]

Do they insure you? Like, I know people who make a. CEOs usually, like, the companies usually have insurance on them.

[Michael Johnson]

Everybody should get insurance. Like, it's. I've had. I have. I've probably had insurance on me for 15 years, so.

[AJ Holiday]

No, I'm saying the corporation has insurance on you.

[Michael Johnson]

Oh, yeah, they do. Like. Yeah, they do. Yeah. Yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

That's why you're going to get that blood work done.

[Michael Johnson]

Let me. My board doesn't require it, but it's something, you know, they don't require it at all.

[AJ Holiday]

Okay. That's what I was asking you.

[Michael Johnson]

Yeah. No company can require you. Like, it's. Because of HIPAA laws, you don't have to share your. Your health status with anybody. Now, a board could say, we encourage you to deal with. In my case, you know, 50 was a milestone for me. And, you know, turning 50, there's a lot of people who just, at least from where I come from, are either 50 and there's all kind of health issues or they didn't make it to 50. And so last few years, I'm working to be a healthier, healthier person. And you can only do that by knowing your status, right? Knowing, you know, what your A1C is, what you call cholesterol is, and all those things, because they take a lot of us out.

[AJ Holiday]

Yeah, I just had a physical done on Friday, man. Y' all go get y' all a physical. Yeah, I'm right here thinking, I just love to eat crushed ice. Super anemic. Super anemic.

[Michael Johnson]

I always tell people, like, I was showing some people, like, I got this, my chart thing from the Mayo Clinic, and I was showing a group of people, like, all of my results, right? And they were like, man, you share your message. I don't mind sharing it because people should know, like, what all their levels are, Right? You know, a lot of us die, whether it's pancreatic cancer or, like, it's. It's just so much stuff that can be treated early if you catch it. And so. And I gotta thank my wife, right? There was periods in my. In our marriage, I don't want no doctor. And she's like, oh, it's been two years. You ain't got your fit. Oh, I'll go next year. She was like, nope, you're going now. So part of it, I would say, being married to a good woman, she would make you go, aj, I'm watching you smile. I'm going to email you a picture of my niece. My God, you look just like her every time you smile. I think she's about 33, 34. How old are you?

[AJ Holiday]

Okay, 41.

[Michael Johnson]

Yeah. You look a splitting image of her. I'm like, oh, let me see. Oh, my God.

[AJ Holiday]

Let me see. What the hell? What is happening?

[Michael Johnson]

She's falling asleep. She's smiling. She's not enough.

[AJ Holiday]

Oh, yeah, she. She just texted me. She lost connection. What is happening? Let's let her come back and so she can do the last question. Here, let me mark this. Sorry, producer can edit it.

[Michael Johnson]

Yeah, I'll send you a picture of it. You look. You look just like her. It's. I can't wait to. When do you all air this?

[AJ Holiday]

This is coming out on Thursday.

[Michael Johnson]

Oh, wow. I am really honored. We appreciate it being on your show. And honestly, if you ever need my help and you need me to jump.

[AJ Holiday]

On, I need it right now. I need your help, and I have a friend who needs your help. So one of my girlfriends. Before Tam gets to the last question when she comes back on. One of my girlfriends was recently the CEO of a nonprofit here in Charleston, South Carolina, and the board was giving her a super, super tough time. First black woman, young. She's only 40 as well. She just turned 40 in December, and, you know, they just didn't treat her well. So she ended up stepping down recently. But I know she's good at raising money.

[Michael Johnson]

Yeah, I've been through that.

[AJ Holiday]

Yeah. I would also like, you know, maybe this is another reason why she needs. I would like for you to possibly talk to her also.

[Michael Johnson]

Yeah, of course. Say no more. Done deal.

[AJ Holiday]

Yeah.

[Tam Bam]

A.J. filling your schedule up, ain't she?

[Michael Johnson]

I'm trying to.

[AJ Holiday]

Let me tell you, relationships is worth more than money.

[Tam Bam]

Okay.

[AJ Holiday]

I'll pay.

[Michael Johnson]

My life is an open book. And I went through something like that. I ran a. A very large non profit, and. And I went there for four months, and my departure was very, very, very public. And I was the black CEO of two different nonprofits. First black CEO of two. And it just didn't work. Because I am the type of CEO that I cannot be a figurehead. And I will not be a figurehead. And if you hire me as the CEO, you gotta know, if I interview for a job, I'm gonna be straight up with you. Right. I am an entrepreneurial CEO, and if you hire me in that role, you need to allow me and empower me to be in that role. But you got to find somebody else, and it's that simple. And I've always operated like that. And so when you ask the question around audacity over faith, my faith have always allowed me to step out there on courage and know that your skills are strong enough that if somebody mistreats you, you'll land on your feet and the next opportunity will present itself.

[AJ Holiday]

Period.

[Tam Bam]

Amen. All right, final question. Complete this sentence. In 2025, the world needs more leaders who blank.

[Michael Johnson]

Show empathy and compassion. You know, I think about what's going on with the SNAP program. I made a post about it on my LinkedIn profile I think has now gone viral. And you like, there's people out here that have no empathy. And as somebody who benefited from snap, a mother who was single and had schizophrenia and mental health issues, there are people who are dependent on those resources. And I just see a lack of empathy and a lack of compassion from so many people in this country right now. And we need leaders who's going to be bridge builders and show empathy and compassion.

[AJ Holiday]

Absolutely, yes.

[Tam Bam]

That's for sure. And they need to go ahead and give them SNAP benefits right on back.

[Michael Johnson]

Complain messing around. They gonna. People gonna really snap and you're gonna see.

[AJ Holiday]

But they really, I think they got, they got it January, they got it November 1st, but I guess it's going to be a month.

[Michael Johnson]

Trump said, Trump a couple of hours ago said it's not happening. Yesterday they announced that they were going to get half the. Half of the funds out. And then today he circled back and say, ain't none going down until the Democrats come and pass his budget.

[AJ Holiday]

Wow.

[Michael Johnson]

You know, and in cases like this.

[AJ Holiday]

And, and what is what all I got to see what all that budget includes because a lot of times they have a whole bunch of bullshit small print people aren't reading that's included in these bills and budgets. Right. Which is probably why they won't pass it.

[Tam Bam]

Right.

[Michael Johnson]

I mean, people have agendas and, and people want to reallocate funds to things that's important to them. And the reality is we are a very divided country. The president won with a little over half the vote. And his base is probably saying, why cater to that other half when they're not going to vote for you anyway? And so I think it's going to be a challenging next few years for a lot of people. And that's why we need leadership who are empathetic and compassionate and are willing to step up and do things outside of the box. And you know, normally like over the holidays, you'll see every year I usually go out and buy somebody a car and raise money for that. We've a couple of years ago, you'll see news stories where we helped purchase a half a million dollar house for our maintenance guy. We go around town and we give away 2, 3, $4,000 in tips to restaurant workers. And it's not necessarily just giving out. It ain't my money. I just raise it on social media. People are compassionate and they're empathetic and they want to help.

[Tam Bam]

So a half a million dollar home for. How do I apply for the janitorial position right now? Because I clean that motherfucker from top to bottom. Okay.

[Michael Johnson]

Let me tell you the story about this guy and I talk about it in the book. And if you go to mjohnsonceo.com on my website, right on the homepage, you will see a video about this gentleman. His name is Dwayne Malone. When I came to Boys and Girls Club 16 years ago, we had no money for maintenance. And Dwayne was like, man, I believe in what you're trying to do. And he said, I'm gonna help you get these buildings together. So he came in one Christmas and we painted one of our boys and girls. Meet him and like three volunteers from Christmas Eve all the way to like New Year's Day. And every year he's been with me doing something. When Flint, Michigan happened, Flint, Michigan gave me a key to the city. All I really did was show it up. I told Dwayne I wanted to take 50,000 gallons of water down there. And we had two days to do it. I posted it on my Facebook page and within two days he collected 50,000 gallons of water and we took it down to Flint, Michigan. I really just used my profile and my influence to get the word out. But he did all the major labor and I recognized that the same thing happened when there was tornadoes and floods in Houston. We rescued people out of their houses. I went down there with firefighters and news people and it was Dwayne who drove that semi trailer down there full of supplies. So in Wisconsin, we have the largest racial gap in home ownership. And he was trying to buy him and his new wife a house that was like an hour and a half outside of Wisconsin. And he was actually smart. He told me that's what he was trying to do. So he was making his Ask without making his ax. And I was like, man, gotta take care of my guy. Now what came of that? If you read the comments like in that set, people like, oh, my God, how can he do this? Why would he buy this? For his baiting this guy. There's other people. Sometimes you got to take care of the people on your team too.

[Tam Bam]

Absolutely.

[Michael Johnson]

And I'm thankful because here's a guy who has given his time and his talent to our organization for years. And all I simply did was ask donors to give 10,000 here, 20,000 there, 30,000 there to buy him his dream house.

[Tam Bam]

Yeah, that wasn't bad. He was a steward of the Lord. And the Lord saw fit to bless him with a home. That's all that was.

[Michael Johnson]

Yeah, yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

Save your bags for something real important.

[Tam Bam]

Okay?

[AJ Holiday]

Don't be like hexing for $20. You need $500,000.

[Tam Bam]

Listen, don't nothing piss me off than a person asking for $20. Cause what you about to do with.

[Michael Johnson]

That, like, right, right.

[AJ Holiday]

If I ask anybody for anything, I really can't afford it. Big ass.

[Tam Bam]

All right, we are going commercial break. Now when we get back, you got to give us your SIMP story, okay? So just be prepared. Think about it while we're on this break.

[Michael Johnson]

You gotta re. You gotta re. Educate me on the SIMP story.

[Tam Bam]

We go, we gonna help you. All right. We're not really taking a break. We just put a break in there. But SIMP series.

[Michael Johnson]

So y' all got ads, Y' all making money?

[Tam Bam]

A couple little dollars. We ain't got no CEO money yet, but we trying to get some of that.

[AJ Holiday]

I do got it. It's just in the universe.

[Michael Johnson]

I'll look around and just remember, po me when y' all started y' all foundation. And I'll come. I'll come work for y' all when y' all making the millions.

[Tam Bam]

Okay, we're gonna hold you today. We're gonna hold you today.

[Michael Johnson]

I'll come. I'll come work for y' all any day.

[Tam Bam]

Okay? All right, now we're gonna be looking for you.

[AJ Holiday]

I'm about to come work at the Boys and Girls Club because I'm trying to get these student loans paid off. And y' all know if you work for a non profit, you can get your student loans forgiven.

[Michael Johnson]

Okay. I think AJ already looked up my salary. That's what I think happened.

[AJ Holiday]

No, no, I. I am. I know finance, right?

[Tam Bam]

I'm about to though money.

[Michael Johnson]

Oh, my God.

[Tam Bam]

I gotta look your up.

[AJ Holiday]

Me wanting to get my student loans written off. Don't got nothing to do with your salary. I trying to get you to pay them. The government to pay him.

[Tam Bam]

All right, so sim story. You have to tell a story about the time you got played by the opposite sex.

[Michael Johnson]

Ooh, jeez.

[AJ Holiday]

Now he been with his wife for 23 years now. Be real careful.

[Tam Bam]

Right?

[Michael Johnson]

Well, I gotta think about that one. I don't think I've ever been played.

[Tam Bam]

Oh, you're one of those.

[AJ Holiday]

You're a Virgo. What's your. What's your birthday?

[Tam Bam]

What's your sign? He a Libra. Libra.

[AJ Holiday]

Close enough.

[Tam Bam]

You a Libra.

[Michael Johnson]

Like. Like play. Like cheated on.

[Tam Bam]

Just play. Somebody finessed you out of some money. Somebody made you think that they really liked you, and you caught him with your homeboy in the locker room or something.

[Michael Johnson]

I swear to God. And that has never happened to me.

[AJ Holiday]

Has somebody said, I guess you could put it in a donor way? I don't know if somebody ever promised you some money and didn't come through with a donation, I mean, I could.

[Michael Johnson]

Say I was played by my wife. Early on, she dated. And I talk about it in the book. She dated this prince looking ass dude. And I actually talk about it in the book. And we were dating. I didn't want to get serious. And she was like, well, I'm gonna go back and see my ex boyfriend and like, bring some closure to that. The weekend I wanted to get serious. And when she left Chicago, her hair was all whipped up. And she came back three days later and it looked like a hot mess. And I just knew.

[AJ Holiday]

The weekend you wanted to get serious, now she just arbitrarily went back and.

[Michael Johnson]

Slept with her ex man.

[AJ Holiday]

And that was the weekend you wanted to be serious.

[Tam Bam]

See how Nick.

[Michael Johnson]

You know how it is. She was. We both were like, we dated for 10 years before we got married. And I was in the music business. It was just hard to settle. It was just very difficult. And I didn't want to lie to her until I knew. And it took me seeing her with another guy. I think what happened when I was.

[Tam Bam]

Dating other women, it took you seeing their hair fucked up. Like.

[Michael Johnson]

That did hurt me. I was all weekend long. She was in Minnesota. She was in Minnesota. I was listening to the Isley Brothers all weekend. I was in a little fetal position. And you know how it is when your woman is with another man. All kind of stuff go through your head. And I was brave enough to talk about it in the book. And so. But she was honest with me. She said, I need closure. And so I'm gonna go and talk to him. And I knew they wanted to just talk. And I was like. I was like, I could drive to Minnesota with you, right?

[AJ Holiday]

Cause why y' all can't talk on the phone? Y' all ain't had FaceTime back then, though.

[Michael Johnson]

But I knew she was with that guy for a while. And I don't know what, you know, it still bothers me to this day.

[AJ Holiday]

But I told y', all, if you cheat on your man and he take you back, leave that nigga immediately, okay?

[Tam Bam]

They gonna.

[Michael Johnson]

She can't ever go to Minnesota ever, Ever. Twenty some years ago, you know, be.

[AJ Holiday]

Trying to punish you.

[Michael Johnson]

I feel like women, at least women I've dated, like, some men don't get emotionally tied and easy to move on. And I would say at least for the women I dated, it's just not that easy. And. And so my wife in this case was like a stud. She was just like, look, you know, while we were going back and forth, she was like, you know what? If you go do your thing, you do your thing, and I'mma live my life, and I ain't gonna wait on you.

[AJ Holiday]

And if I'm available when you ready, we can do it.

[Michael Johnson]

And when I got serious, she, you know, I was like, we gotta now commit if we're gonna do this. And she said, well, I need one more weekend. And my little heart.

[Tam Bam]

Rightfully, so rightfully.

[AJ Holiday]

I like her.

[Tam Bam]

I like her. I like her a lot.

[Michael Johnson]

She.

[Tam Bam]

She was like, I ran your credit. Your credit wasn't. And I'm about to go see Malcolm. Cause you playing.

[AJ Holiday]

Malcolm in the Middle. In the middle.

[Tam Bam]

That was a good story. That was a good story. All right, go ahead.

[Michael Johnson]

So I gotta tell it all over again or did you record that?

[Tam Bam]

No, we recorded it.

[Michael Johnson]

We recorded.

[Tam Bam]

Oh, yeah.

[Michael Johnson]

Okay.

[AJ Holiday]

What. Wait a minute.

[Tam Bam]

What?

[AJ Holiday]

Why would we have stopped commercial?

[Tam Bam]

Oh, that break been over, buddy. We came back.

[Michael Johnson]

Oh, my God. I'm thinking we have a commercial. Oh, my God.

[Tam Bam]

Before we.

[AJ Holiday]

Before we wrap it up so far, listeners, because a lot of people are creatives, entrepreneurs, everyday people just trying to lead, you know, in whatever lane they're in. So what's the one bold step they can take this week to start leading with Audacity?

[Michael Johnson]

Self reflection, introspective work.

[AJ Holiday]

Got it.

[Michael Johnson]

Yeah. You gotta, like, you can't pour into your future until you realize what's going on with you right now in the moment. And so I try to self reflect a lot. Like, even to this day, at 50, I don't feel accomplished. And Some people look at my house and my car and my big office and all the stuff we do, and I still don't feel accomplished. And the reason I think that's the case is because I shared with you the variety of people that I hang with. Right. I have some friends who are multimillionaires and billionaires and I have some friends who are still living lives that's not as productive. And I learn from all of them. But I don't feel as successful as I know I could be or as impactful as I believe I can be.

[AJ Holiday]

So you want a yacht? Like a big boy yacht?

[Michael Johnson]

No. So I would say the yachts and the boats ain't my thing. Like, I don't like. I would say material. Well, the island, maybe more, you know, property. I would say I'm not like real big into material things, but I do think about. I am starting to think about how do I pour back into my family. All my family still live in poverty in Chicago. 95% of my family is either still on Section 8 living in poverty. And how do I help build wealth for not only my family, but the people around me, including the families that we serve. And that's why in this workforce center, we built this financial literacy program, we built this entrepreneurship center. We want to teach kids how to become doctors, lawyers, entrepreneurs. One of my kids just graduated from med school and now she's delivering babies. And when she finished her residency, ching, ching. And this was somebody that was just in our program nine years ago and didn't know what she wanted to do with her life. And that's where her name is, Dr. Matiba Bojang. I'm very proud of her. Young black woman. And I just can't believe she graduated a month and a half ago and she's already delivered over 40 some babies at our local hospital.

[AJ Holiday]

Wow, that's amazing.

[Michael Johnson]

It's powerful.

[AJ Holiday]

Do you have any survivors remorse?

[Michael Johnson]

I don't know. What do you mean by that?

[Tam Bam]

Because you the one who made it.

[AJ Holiday]

Out the hood and you got still back there, you know.

[Michael Johnson]

No, I'm thankful, man, because growing up there, I feel like I can handle anything. Like I've lived in the gutter. I've seen the worst. And even though my neighborhood was very challenging, it was a lot of love there too. And the buildings I grew up in, you can go borrow chicken off somebody table, you can borrow sugar, Kool Aid. I don't know another neighborhood where you can go and knock on somebody door and say, can I borrow some butter? And it was Just that's how it was in our neighborhood. And even though there was a lot of drugs and prostitution and gang banging, there was a sense of community there. So I'm proud. And I think because I lived in that environment, I've been able to in my new. In my role at Boys and Girls Clubs, because I have those lived experiences, it's made me a better CEO. And it also keeps. Like, there's this guy named Jackie Morris that dressed like a pimp. And everybody be like, why do you. Why do you hang out with him? And you see him, he wears his big dob hats. He wears big, shiny, glittery shoes. Like, he does look like a pimp. But I love Jackie. So, like, I have a fundraiser on Friday night. Jackie's gonna be at my table with one of the biggest philanthropists in my community. And I'm not embarrassed to hang out with Jackie because Jackie keeps me grounded. And when there's stuff going on in the streets, he tells me. And so I keep him close to me. And some people be like, I just don't know why you do that. And sometimes when people move up, they forget where they come from. They forget who. Like, it's not you. Sometimes you got to reach back. Jackie got out of prison. Jackie came and worked with me on the project. Jackie got out of prison eight years ago. He's been working every day. And I helped him through a donor out of Chicago, a guy named Willie Wilson. Help him purchase a tea shop in downtown Madison. The same thing with my boy Goon. His nickname was Goons name. Now it's Corey. He runs the black Men Coalition of Dane County. Spent 10 years in the hole. Now he's a nonprofit leader that is also raising millions. Corey introduced me to a donor that I couldn't get to, and she recently gave us a million dollars. So I poured it to Corey, and now Corey is pouring back into me. And I just feel. I just believe when you give back to other people, God will bless your work and give back to you.

[AJ Holiday]

Absolutely.

[Michael Johnson]

Amen.

[AJ Holiday]

Thank God. This was really good. Yeah. So how. How can people support your mission or get involved with what you got going on next?

[Michael Johnson]

Yeah, I would encourage people, you know, that my biggest thing coming up now go to www.bgcdc.org. that's the boys and Girls Clubs of Dane county website. If you want to learn more about my book is mjohnsonceo.com we have a fundraiser on Friday where we're raising money for our youth of the year event on Friday where there's A competition. Some young person has an opportunity to win a car, to get a college scholarship. And it's a very big competition that we have here in Wisconsin. But my biggest one that's coming up is what we do over the holidays. I want to raise about $200,000 to refurbish somebody house, to give tips to restaurant workers, to help buy a car, too, to a family that's in need. And if you want to get down and you want to see it in real time, we raise the money, and then we bless families in real time. We're not one of these organizations where we raise the money and say, are we going to sit on it for a year and decide? People submit their applications? I don't make any of the decisions anymore. Because what comes with that when people see you raising that kind of money? Oh, he giving the money to his family, all his friends. So what I did. Sometimes you got to listen to criticism and get out in front of it. So over the last seven years, I have a community group of business and civic and grassroots community leaders that look at all these applications, and then they tell me who to go get the money to. And that's how we roll.

[Tam Bam]

All right, y'. All.

[AJ Holiday]

So that is bgcdc.org Go pay your ties. Okay.

[Michael Johnson]

Yes. Ministry is sometimes outside the walls of the church, Right? So, yes, I look at my work. Podcast is a ministry, broadcasting the ministry, too. You're sharing the word and we in the marketplace, you know, in the marketplace. And you're having a little bit of fun with it too, Right?

[Tam Bam]

All right, thank you so much for joining us. This is really, really good. When AJ Said I found this amazing CEO from the Boys and Girls Club, I was like, girl, he about to be boring as hell.

[Michael Johnson]

But you were not.

[AJ Holiday]

He already thought you was disconnected because you were sleeping. No.

[Tam Bam]

This is funny.

[Michael Johnson]

Well, I hope. Let me say this. I hope we stay in touch. I hope y'.

[Tam Bam]

All.

[Michael Johnson]

Now the third I. I'll. If y' all come down in July, I will let y' all interview all the celebrities. It's usually about seven to eight of them that we had like a couple. I think we had Tay Diggs. And I mean, you go look on.

[AJ Holiday]

Our website, we gonna come set up shop for.

[Michael Johnson]

Set up shop.

[Tam Bam]

Say less.

[Michael Johnson]

I'll let know you let y' all do y' all thing.

[Tam Bam]

All right, great.

[AJ Holiday]

Absolutely.

[Tam Bam]

All right. We look forward to it.

[Michael Johnson]

And then A.J. let me know. I'll agree to have free consultant services for you and your nonprofit friend. But if it go beyond those two people. I'm gonna charge you about $500 an hour rate.

[Tam Bam]

I'm coming, too. Shit, I don't know what you talking about.

[AJ Holiday]

Listen, I don't mind paying for information. I give out a lot of free information all the time, and I usually have had to pay for the information, and I'm then given for free. So I don't mind, you know, invest in. In myself. But anyway, y', all, I'm not gonna.

[Michael Johnson]

Charge you, but here's what I will say. I see. I respect. Hey, the blueprint is there. Go to Amazon.com and get it. Michael Johnson, Audacity to read. It'll pop right up. And. And here's what I would say. If the book ain't good, I will fully refund you. Because I know everybody I talk to, they tell me they can't. Once they start one chapter, they can't stop. And it's real. It's authentic. It's raw. You rarely see a leadership book that talk about the adversities and a leader that's raising the type of resources I've raised in my career that comes from the projects, and it's rarely told. And so I know it's a phenomenal book, and I believe it's going to be a bestseller. But I got to get on podcasts like Yalls to help us. Help. Help us get the word out.

[Tam Bam]

I'm definitely gonna go get it because I feel like the subtitle could be real CEO. You know.

[Michael Johnson]

Say that I would paraphrase. I am a authentic CEO from the streets. Come on. Never left my ties. As I've grown in my role, I just haven't. And there's not. There's not one place I feel. There's no place in America I feel like I can't go. Whether it's in the projects or in corporate America, I'm comfortable in all those spaces because I've been in all those spaces. And so. But at the same time, I've always tried to be my authentic self. I was on this panel yesterday. I was telling people, don't fake it. When you. When you fake it in your job, that's acting. And when you're acting, eventually the acting is going to wear off. Now, somebody asked me, do you code switch? I used to, but now, like, I used to have a stuttering problem, so I worked on that, right? If there's things you know you need to be better at, you work at it. But don't be fake. Don't be phony. Be you. And just like, I'm talking to you all like you talk to my guy, Goon, who runs the Black Men Coalition. We play poker with our donors. We play basketball.

[AJ Holiday]

Don't say that. Now you see what they doing with the basketball players right now? They play poker for peanuts.

[Michael Johnson]

We play for fun. We don't gamble for plates. We play for pizza and push ups. That's what we play for.

[AJ Holiday]

And we'll add another P in there.

[Michael Johnson]

Oh, my God. All right, that's where we gotta go. See, somebody was like, that was hilarious. My single man. That's in my life. They would have loved that.

[AJ Holiday]

All right, y'. All, the audacity to lead with Michael Johnson. We do appreciate you for coming. And we talk back, no doubt.

[Michael Johnson]

Stay in touch, ladies. Appreciate y'. All.

[AJ Holiday]

Hold on, hold on. Stay right there, y'.

[Commercial Announcer]

All.

[AJ Holiday]

If you enjoyed this episode, y' all tune in every Thursday on the black effect iHeartradio app or wherever the you get your podcast at. This is your co host, AJ Holiday 2.0 on Instagrams. Kick it Tam, y'.

[Tam Bam]

All. It's official. Tam Bam on Instagram. I love y' all so very much. Thank y' all for tuning in. Remember, speak now.

[AJ Holiday]

No. Hell no. We got. You gotta relate to the show. We'll never hold our peace. We say whatever every time. Don't hold them donations. Y' all go over.

[Tam Bam]

Never hold your audacity.

[AJ Holiday]

Yes.

[Tam Bam]

Period.

[AJ Holiday]

And support your local boys and girls club, Deuces. We talk Fact Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio. Visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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[Michael Johnson]

Thursday Night Football is on, and it's only on prime video Tonight, it's an old school rivalry as the Las Vegas Raiders collide with the Denver Broncos.

[AJ Holiday]

This is a matchup everybody wants to see.

[Michael Johnson]

Coverage begins at 7pm Eastern with football's best party, TNF tonight presented by Verizon. Not a Prime member, Not a problem. Simply sign up for a 30 day free trial. It's the Raiders and Bradley Broncos tonight at 7pm Eastern only on Prime Video. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com amazonprime for details. What's that sound? That's the sound of Downy unstoppable scent beads going into your washing machine and giving your clothes freshness that lasts all day long. There it is again. It's like music to your ears. Or more like music to your nose. That freshness is irresistible. Let's get a Downy Unstoppables bottle. Sh. And now a sniff solo. Nice. With Downey Unstoppables, you just toss wash. Wow. For all day freshness, what do you.

[Wilmer Valderrama]

Get when you mix 1950s Hollywood, a Cuban musician with a dream, and one of the most iconic sitcoms of all time? You get Desi Arness on the podcast starring Desi Arness and Wilmer Valderrama. I'll take you on a journey to Desi's life, how he redefine American television and what that meant for all of us watching from the sidelines, waiting for a face like ours on screen. Listen to Starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer valderrama on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[AJ Holiday]

She said Johnny, the kids didn't come home last night.

[Commercial Announcer]

Along the central Texas plains, teens are dying, suicides that don't make sense, strange accidents and brutal murders in what seems to be a plot ripped straight out of Breaking Bad.

[Wilmer Valderrama]

Drugs, alcohol, trafficking of people.

[AJ Holiday]

There are people out there that absolutely know what happened.

[Commercial Announcer]

Listen to Paper ghosts, the Texas teen murders on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tam Bam]

This is an iHeart podcast.