We Can't Be Friends feat. Jackie Woodyear

Summary

Podcast Summary: "We Can't Be Friends" feat. Jackie Woodyear

We Talk Back | The Black Effect Podcast Network & iHeartPodcasts
Date: February 26, 2026

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Overview:

This episode dives into the age-old (and spicy!) question: Can men and women actually be platonic friends? Hosts TamBam and AJ Holiday, joined by returning guest Jackie Woodyear, deliver their raw comedic repartee, share unfiltered personal stories, and dissect real talk about relationships, cheating, male/female friendships, trust, and boundaries—with their trademark blend of humor, honesty, and Black woman magic.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Catch-Up & Weekend Anecdotes

• AJ's Weekend: Cozy at home with a new projector, watching TV on the wall, and comically struggling with its remote.
• TamBam in Charleston: Attended a friend’s funeral. Shared a hilarious bathroom story about stumbling into women at a club called Gullah & Grooves and reminisced about past boba tea-fueled road trip mishaps.
  "[Gullah & Grooves] was a nice vibe, older crowd, live music, singing." – TamBam (04:22)

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2. Baddie Who Talks Back

Spotlight: Juanita Jordan (Michael Jordan’s ex-wife)

• Lauded as a “smartest Gemini” and icon for securing her bag post-divorce.
• AJ: “Every time you buy them new elevens, Juanita is getting a check. She was an attorney and now she’s worth somewhere around $170 million.” (07:11)
• Hosts toast Juanita as “the baddie who talks back” for Black History Month.

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3. Sins & Messy Memes – Pop Culture & Wild News

• 50 Cent vs. T.I. Drama: Dissecting the canceled VERZUZ battle, 50’s “mean girl” tactics, and beef spilling into the music.
• Ugandan Woman’s “Cheater Beating” Business: Delighting over a woman paid to beat up cheating or abusive men—AJ jokes about her old “Beat Your Own Bitch (BYOB)” business idea (11:48).
• Serial Boutique Scammer (SC): Tales of a white South Carolina children’s boutique owner arrested 11 times for scamming. Both hosts highlight how theft is policed and racially perceived.
• Messy Meme Moment: Sharing a petty online confession about “giving someone stink coochie” because he begged too much, sparking a lively discussion about boundaries and sexual experiences.

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4. Main Discussion: Can Men and Women Be Friends?

(Begins ~25:07 with Jackie returning as guest co-host)

a. Is Platonic Friendship Even Possible?

• AJ: “Do y’all think women can actually have male friends? Men don’t think so.” (26:01)
• Consensus:
  • Women can have genuine, platonic male friends, but often the men are open to more if given opportunity.
  • TamBam admits, “Would they fuck you? Probably… As long as you don’t cross that boundary, you’re just friends.” (26:09)
  • Jackie points out the “boyfriend/husband problem”—women cutting off male friends for relationships and the uphill struggle of regaining those friendships.

b. Testing Friendship Boundaries

• AJ’s Test: "Call your best male friend and say, ‘You want this pussy?’ See if he declines!" (26:23)
• The group agrees most men would say yes, even longtime friends, though some would be weirded out.

c. Impact on Relationships

• Stories about exes demanding to know about every man in their lives.
• AJ: “I don’t have a problem not talking to anybody, but it’s the fact that you think I shouldn’t that I got a problem with.” (33:23)
• Jackie: “What does what he would do have to do with me? Do you trust me?” (30:27)

d. Friendship Definitions: "Friend" Too Loosely

• Debating whether men-waiting-in-the-wings count as actual friends or not.
• Highlighting different "tiers" of friendship: best friends, dinner friends, travel friends, etc.
• Recognizing that some male “friends” are just waiting for their turn.

e. Work Wife/Husband Dynamics

• TamBam and AJ muse about work spouses and where boundaries get fuzzy, especially after a workplace affair.
  • TamBam: “Can he keep his job or does he need to quit?” (33:09)
  • Jackie & crew: “Somebody’s gotta go!”

f. Cutting Ties for Serious Relationships

• TamBam expresses uncertainty about how to “dissolve” certain male dinner companions from her life now that she's getting more serious with someone.
• AJ: “Well, you don’t need them anymore… that’s how that’s supposed to work.” (42:50)

g. Why Men Don't Trust Male Friends Around Their Women

• Men don’t trust men around their women because they know how men think.
• AJ: “Men lack integrity. They don’t even trust other men!” (31:06)
• Jackie: "If your girl going, she going—there’s nothing you can do about it." (31:17)

h. Green Flag vs. Red Flag Male Friends (Truth Bomb Segment @ 59:09)

• Green Flags:
  • Never flirts,
  • Respects relationship boundaries,
  • Treats your partner with respect,
  • Is consistent and not just “on-call” when you’re single.
• Red Flags:
  • Texts late at night, flirts, or asks sexual questions “as a joke”,
  • Disappears when you get a man,
  • Competes with your partner or puts down every man you date,
  • Only sticks around because you’re attractive.

TamBam self-reflects: “I think perhaps I’m using the word friend too loosely.” (62:17)

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5. Deeper Reflections on Friendship, Trust, and Human Nature

• Recognizing that policing partners doesn’t work: “Humans just be doing human shit.” (33:26)
• Jackie: “There’s no amount of safeguards that will prevent someone from doing what they want.” (63:04)
• Emphasizing the importance of trust:
  TamBam: “If you don’t have trust, your relationship needs to dissolve anyway or you need to work on it.” (67:02)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On cheating back:
  AJ Holiday (07:38): “Don’t be trying to get even with these men unless it’s in court, period.”
• On lingering “friends”:
  AJ Holiday (43:57): “Men will wait in the cut for a decade… they might not even want us, but they’ll wait ten years for that pussy.”
• On boundaries:
  Jackie (63:12): “Do better about creating boundaries, about who is your actual friend.”
• On trust:
  AJ Holiday (63:23): “There’s no amount of safeguards that… will prevent another person from whatever decision they’re going to make.”
• On men not trusting men:
  AJ Holiday (27:24): “I just know—I think men know men don’t… they lack integrity, right?”
• On friendship rankings:
  Jackie (49:03): “You got your best friends, your dinner friends, your travel friends—like, sometimes people don’t last your whole life.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:25] – Hosts & guest intros / Weekend updates
• [06:27] – Baddie Who Talks Back: Juanita Jordan
• [07:54] – Sins: 50 Cent vs. T.I., wild news stories
• [17:51] – Messy Meme: “Stink coochie” confessions
• [20:38] – Main Topic: Can men & women be friends?
• [25:07] – Jackie returns as guest, main friendship debate begins
• [31:29] – Work spouse talk; cheating at work
• [33:44] – Discussing controlling partners, boundaries
• [42:16] – Navigating friendship “breakups” for new relationships
• [54:35] – Men as friends: emotional dynamics, groomsmen, boundaries
• [59:09] – Truth Bomb Segment: Green vs. Red flag “friends”
• [66:08] – “New friends get you places old friends can’t”: discussing networking, resources
• [67:12] – Last words: trust, boundaries, reflections

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Tone & Final Thoughts

We Talk Back stays true to its brand: rowdy, real, funny, and unapologetically Black. The women candidly examine platonic friendships, how men and women view relationships differently, and why communication and trust matter so much. Their signature blend of comedy, street-wise advice, and sisterly love makes for a relatable and engaging listen—complete with spicy confessions and “truth bomb” moments.

Last word:
If you’re wondering if you and your platonic “client” are really just friends—run ‘em through those red and green flags!

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Guest Plug
Jackie Woodyear (real estate, jokes, and tomfoolery):
@carolinashomegirl & @Jackie_MLYN on Instagram

Transcript

[AJ Holiday]

This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.

[Narrator/Podcast Promos]

Hi, it's Jill Interestine, host of the Spirit Daughter Podcast where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And today I'm talking with my dear friend, Krista Williams. It can change you in the best way possible. Dance with the change. Dance with the breakdowns. The embodiment of Pisces intuition with Capricorn power moves. Just so. I'm, like, delusionally proud of my chart. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to your podcast. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to nine 99 years until a confession changed everything.

[Tam Bam]

I was a monster.

[Narrator/Podcast Promos]

Listen to Burden of guilt season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jackie]

I'm Clayton Eckerd.

[AJ Holiday]

In 2022, I was the lead of ABC's the Bachelor.

[Narrator/Podcast Promos]

But here's the thing. Bachelor fans hated him.

[Jackie]

If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would.

[Narrator/Podcast Promos]

That's when his life took a disturbing turn. A one night stand would end in a courtroom.

[AJ Holiday]

The media is here.

[Tam Bam]

This case has gone viral.

[Jackie]

The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you.

[AJ Holiday]

This is unlike anything I've ever seen before.

[Narrator/Podcast Promos]

I'm Stephanie Young. Listen to Love trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts on the Adventures of Curiosity Cove podcast. When Peanut Butter disappears from school, Ella, Scout and Laila launch full detective mission. Their search leads them back in time to meet a brilliant inventor whose curiosity

[AJ Holiday]

changed the world in this Black History Month adventure.

[Narrator/Podcast Promos]

Asking questions thinking creatively can lead to amazing discoveries. Listen to Adventures of Curiosity Cove every

[AJ Holiday]

Monday from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to We Talk Back podcast, a production of iHeartRadio and the Black Effect Network.

[Tam Bam]

We're just two unapologetically black women with an opinion who talk Back.

[AJ Holiday]

What's up, y'?

[Jackie]

All?

[AJ Holiday]

It's your girl, A.J. holiday. What's up, Tam Bam, y'?

[Tam Bam]

All. It's Tam Bam. I love y'.

[Jackie]

All.

[Tam Bam]

Welcome back to We Talk Back. I missed y'.

[Jackie]

All.

[Tam Bam]

How was your weekend girlfriend?

[AJ Holiday]

My weekend? I do much. It Was cold outside as I got a bunch of food on Saturday and hibernated. I bought a projector earlier last week. So I've been watching TV on the wall.

[Tam Bam]

Oh, that's cute. I used to have one I used to love.

[AJ Holiday]

Yeah, I don't like. I don't like TVs in the bedroom.

[Tam Bam]

Yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

So that's like perfect. And it has like Netflix and YouTube already installed on it, so it's perfect. The only thing is that it has a remote and I turned it off and it kept coming back on.

[Tam Bam]

I don't know what that is exactly.

[AJ Holiday]

Imagine sleeping and you wake up in this shit on your fucking wall, Right?

[Tam Bam]

It's a bullshit playing. He's probably watching porn on the wall, big ass.

[AJ Holiday]

I was not. Girl be watching porn. Nobody's feeling so disgusted watching porn nowadays. The older I get, it just get nasty.

[Jackie]

Like, what the.

[AJ Holiday]

What is wrong with me? I don't watch that no more.

[Tam Bam]

For real. I never could get into it. I could never do it. I need plot and then that just takes too much time. So it did. You wanna. You want a movie?

[AJ Holiday]

Porn?

[Tam Bam]

Yeah. Why are y'?

[Jackie]

All?

[Tam Bam]

I need to know. Cuz if I don't know, it's just

[AJ Holiday]

E. Them t. Them 2 be videos be looking like they having sex for real genre.

[Tam Bam]

So I went. I came to Charleston this weekend. Came for a sad event. My friend. His. His friend passed away, so I came for a funeral that was Sunday. And it was a nice, I mean sad event, but it was beautiful. On Saturday. We did go to a place called Gullah and Grooves. And I really enjoyed it. It was like vibe. It was a nice vibe. It was an older crowd. It was live music, singing all the millennial songs that we all love to sing along.

[AJ Holiday]

I need a check. Gulla and Grooves. Y' all hear that? Mike. Mike Brown, right?

[Tam Bam]

You know, it was nice. The drinks were nice, the vibes were nice. And then I went to the bathroom. I just walk in the bathroom and was like two women in the stall. I don't know who they were because they were obviously already in the stall. But they were like. I guess they were together because they was like somebody nanny stink.

[AJ Holiday]

Girls, shut up. So stupid.

[Tam Bam]

I just love the Charleston accent.

[Jackie]

Come to the front.

[AJ Holiday]

Who was taking a shit in Gullah and Grooves this weekend, right?

[Tam Bam]

Y' all stuck up the bathroom and was mad.

[AJ Holiday]

You remember that? Did we stung up that bathroom on the way back from Atlanta. What do we eat? We had boba and it had regular milk in it.

[Tam Bam]

Yeah, Boba tea with you Cuz I don't even. That's not something I would even buy.

[AJ Holiday]

She's like, get it? It's nice.

[Tam Bam]

Drink that. We both had the Duke on the road, and somebody was trying to get in the stall. She was, like, pulling on the door, and her husband was like, she. She was speaking a different language, but she was yelling at her husband, cuz clearly she had the too. She couldn't get in the bathroom. Yo, good time. No buno for you. Good times, Good times.

[Jackie]

Shame.

[Tam Bam]

Do we have a baddie who talks back this week?

[AJ Holiday]

We do. Okay? And it's a fellow Gemini, so I thought it was perfect.

[Tam Bam]

Okay.

[AJ Holiday]

For this week's baddie who talks back, it is Juanita Jordan, okay?

[Tam Bam]

They are.

[AJ Holiday]

They are labeling. Labeling her as one of the smartest Geminis, okay? It says while Jordan was cheating in 93 with females lighter than Juanita because, you know, he liked the white girls, okay? She stayed, and then she waited until that retired and divorced him. Now she owns half of everything. So every time you buy them new elevens, whatever, retro, whatever, Juanita is getting a check, okay? And she was an attorney, and now she's worth somewhere around $170 million.

[Tam Bam]

Okay? I want to be like Mike. I want to be like Juanita.

[AJ Holiday]

God, we all aspire to be like Juanita.

[Tam Bam]

Juanita, you are a baddie who talks bad. We celebrate you this Black History Month, and we love you, girl.

[Jackie]

Yes.

[AJ Holiday]

Don't be trying to get even with these men unless it's in court, period.

[Jackie]

Okay?

[Tam Bam]

I'm here for you a never get.

[AJ Holiday]

Get even cheating back.

[Tam Bam]

I love that. That was a good one. Juanita Jordan. Yo, let's get in the sins.

[AJ Holiday]

Oh, man. What we got going on this week? So I know you all have seen 50 Cent, T.I. and Kang going in. So 50 Cent and T.I. was supposed to do a versus at some point. T.I. said he had talked to 50 Cent about it because they was, like, in LA shopping some TV shows or some. So they was kicking it. And he said 50 Cent verbally agreed, right? He was like, yeah, I'm gonna publicize it first. And then you just come in after me. This is their conversation. So I guess once TI started, like, publicly talking about doing the verses with 50 50, like, I don't know this, and I don't know what he talking about essentially.

[Tam Bam]

And that's.

[AJ Holiday]

And it got even.

[Tam Bam]

And that's what all this beef is about.

[AJ Holiday]

That's where it started. And then 50 cent then goes to post the worst edited photo of Tiny possible.

[Tam Bam]

Why? Why?

[AJ Holiday]

He did that.

[Tam Bam]

That was me. Because what. Tiny don't even have nothing to do with it.

[AJ Holiday]

She can all tell. She's sweet.

[Tam Bam]

Yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

I don't like when people play with Tiny. I don't.

[Tam Bam]

Yeah, it's just mean. He had just a mean, hurtful person.

[AJ Holiday]

He's a cancer.

[Tam Bam]

He's a cancer. He got that. We can be. Listen, I know we can be some rattlesnakes when we. Yeah, so that's ugly. But he gonna, like, you can't keep being this kind of ugly out here and not expect to get that energy back. He gonna get a reckoning, and it seems like t. I gonna be the one to give it to him. You heard them songs Tina came out with?

[AJ Holiday]

Yes. He came out with a song called War that lit basically, I guess, a diss record to 50 Cent and whomever.

[Tam Bam]

Well, I feel like War was already recorded, but he. He just. It's perfect timing. Yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

So Tip still got it.

[Tam Bam]

Yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

He is one of the best rappers out here.

[Tam Bam]

I. I still. What's that song? Let them know. Yeah, that's a bop. That's a hit for sure. Well, I'm excited and I hope this definitely stays lyrical and doesn't become anything outside of that. King. This is the first time I seen King crash out and I supported it. This is the first crash out and I was like, go off, King. Talk about your mama.

[AJ Holiday]

So I just don't think 50 Cent is of the culture anymore. And probably he just feels like he doesn't need to do a versus, you know what I'm saying? Like, I just get some.

[Tam Bam]

It's something.

[AJ Holiday]

It's something about that surrounding the Diddy case and how he. He did the documentary and then the. The tweets.

[Tam Bam]

I just.

[AJ Holiday]

I don't know about 50 Cent no more. And I don't think enough people be calling him out on his either.

[Tam Bam]

He lost me once. Once I saw how he treated his biological son that looks exactly like him. That's when I was over for me. So, yeah, there you have it. All right, so Ugandan woman starts a business of beating men who cheat on their partners. So you got. A woman has started a shocking business beating men who cheat on their wives, sharing her contact on social media. So when any woman can hire her to deal with unfaithful husbands. And I'm. She beating up all kind of men. She talks about beating up men who steal from women, beating up men who have physically harmed women. And it's not just her. She got a game with her and she really, like, she really out Here, she said this is keeping her lights on. Like, people are really paying her money to go whoop ass when they. When they cheat, when they hurt these women, when they steal from these women, when they beat these women, this woman. And I think we just need to start like an international change. Like, they're just like, go around the world because these men need a reckoning, apparently.

[AJ Holiday]

That is so ironic, y'. All, I have had this business idea for quite some time. It's called byob, Beat your own bitch, where you can hire my company to beat your bitch up.

[Tam Bam]

I feel like you can go back episodes from years ago and you talk about this business and this woman actually really did it, like you were saying it as a joke. But this woman is really out here.

[AJ Holiday]

She beating the men up, though. But, I mean, if you got a woman that's on your ass and like, your sister ain't nowhere around, your mom ain't nowhere around, you could just call up byob.

[Tam Bam]

But what if it's a nigga getting you to be his wife because she ain't cleaning up the house like how he wanted? I'm a kid, all right? Don't clean that kitchen.

[AJ Holiday]

Watch how much you paying VIP member for.

[Tam Bam]

Byob. We clean it.

[AJ Holiday]

We beating all nasty ass wives. Why you ain't clean that kitchen?

[Tam Bam]

These are jokes, guys. So if you're a victim of domestic violence, we don't mean any harm. We're just joking. I promise. Y'. All.

[AJ Holiday]

This is one of Tammy's classmates. So apparently this South Carolina boutique. Don't tell that.

[Jackie]

Right.

[AJ Holiday]

Accused of scamming customers. Arrested for the 11th time. Okay. The owner of South Carolina Children's Boutique, accused of scamming several customers, was back behind bars on Monday. This just this past Monday, Pamela brooks.

[Tam Bam]

Score, score,

[AJ Holiday]

30. Well, no, she's not your classmate.

[Tam Bam]

Long before my time.

[AJ Holiday]

You so quick. You are so fucking fast. Was booked into the Cherokee County Detention center and charged with obtaining property under false pretenses. So January 1, she was arrested in Anderson county and extradited to Fairfield county, where she was formally charged. Then she was arrested in Easley Police Department. On January 7 and February 5, she was arrested in Spartanburg County Sheriff's Office and released at 6:25pm Then again on February. What? Who the fuck is this lady? Why they were rolling her like this? February 5th and second time on February 5th, arrested by Easley Police Department an hour after leaving Spartanburg County.

[Tam Bam]

God damn.

[AJ Holiday]

What she doing with the clothes?

[Tam Bam]

Like what kind of.

[AJ Holiday]

February 11th, she turns herself into Abbeville County. Sheriff's Office. On February 13th, she's arrested by Pickens County.

[Tam Bam]

God damn. She's just all over.

[AJ Holiday]

On February 13th, day before Valentine, she was arrested by Greenville county sheriff's office. February 19th, she was booked as a Richland. She finally made it to Columbia. Yep. She was booked into Richland county detention center on the hold for Greenwood Police Department. On February 20, she was arrested by Greenwood. And then on February 23, she was booked again into the Cherokee county detention center, where she started at. Looks like.

[Tam Bam]

Well, if y' all run into a white lady selling clothes, just stay away from any white lady selling clothes. Right now is suspect.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

You know, the thing I hate is that now they got all her mug shots up here. Here. I feel like I know this. Let me zoom in. She just got this look on her face that like, yeah, I did it,

[Tam Bam]

and I'll do it again.

[AJ Holiday]

I'm gonna do it tomorrow. She probably messing with people credit cards. That's what I think. She's probably because she's not good at it.

[Tam Bam]

She need to find a new lick. You need to find a new scam. You are not good at this one.

[AJ Holiday]

SC boutique owner. Ninth arrest involved allegations of not shopping returning 200 of items in Richland County. What is she stealing and returning? I'm confused. Anyway, she's a blonde bombshell, y'.

[Tam Bam]

All.

[AJ Holiday]

I used to work in Dillard's, right? I used to work in dealers for a couple months when I was in college. And when I tell y' all, the white people be stealing and black people are just policed too much because, I mean, we had a senator's wife who would. Girl, she was basically, like, keeping loss prevention employed because she used to steal out of billows. And it's not that they don't have. That's all it is. It's really a mental health chick because you got the money, you just rather not spend it on maybe six excitement or getting away with the. Yeah, I mean, all the time and nobody's watching them. But y' all watching all the black people still, right?

[Tam Bam]

Yeah. That's one thing you ain't never got to worry about me doing is stealing some. I'm too scared. I would look like a thief. I would look very incriminated. Why you sweating so hard in the middle of the winter? Why you sweating like that? Because you're a thief. That's why. It would be obvious. I just.

[AJ Holiday]

Y'.

[Tam Bam]

All.

[AJ Holiday]

I just have. I am karma. I know that about myself. I be. I'd be doing it coming around. But my Karma is also very quick. Anytime in life, when I have done some I have no business doing, when I tell you instant be happening to me, you come around so I don't do too fast. Like, I gotta do the right thing because my karma becoming a like. Well, I mean, I'll be like, now

[Tam Bam]

you know better right now. Here you go. Broken foot. Boom.

[AJ Holiday]

That was quick. Yeah, I got a messy. I got an m. M a messy meme.

[Tam Bam]

All right, what is it?

[AJ Holiday]

I don't know if y' all think this is funny, but I do.

[Tam Bam]

All right, let's hear it.

[AJ Holiday]

This is from Petty King. Underscore Petty King on Instagram. It's I guess a retweet I gave a some stink coochie before because. Yeah, stop begging. Did you imagine, like, trying like.

[Tam Bam]

No, I.

[AJ Holiday]

You know, you want to just have some company, but maybe you're just having a bad day or maybe you just got from the gym. These love.

[Tam Bam]

Oh, they.

[AJ Holiday]

They try to on you when you clammy.

[Tam Bam]

Yeah, okay. Like,

[AJ Holiday]

exactly. Yeah.

[Tam Bam]

Didn't the pheromones are like extra when you're fresh from the gym or something. I don't know. But they be wanting that. But I.

[AJ Holiday]

Why we can't say no? Why we got to give you a reason why he's.

[Tam Bam]

No, I don't want to smell that push air.

[AJ Holiday]

Like what I was supposed to say, no, baby, not today. My coochie saying

[Tam Bam]

we have to say that because some just don't know how to take no for answer.

[AJ Holiday]

I guess she said her head in. You want some hair coochie. Yeah, but here stink coochie.

[Tam Bam]

Them will not breathe. And you with this thing, no Damn, no integrity. 00% no integrity.

[AJ Holiday]

When I used to work in the office in Columbia, I remember it was this white boy named Mark and this dude Lionel asked Mark would he fuck Rihanna even if her coochie was stank. And Mark was like, hell no, man. I have more self respect than that. Meanwhile, these niggas like, yes, I'm in there. Like, y' all nasty.

[Tam Bam]

I was talking to this guy, one of our friends, and he was saying that another girl we know from college coochie used to always be stink. And I was like, always. He like, always. I'm like, how many times did you go back for some stank pussy for you to know how it always was stink? And he gonna bust out laughing. Yeah, you nasty and you probably the

[AJ Holiday]

reason why it was always stink. Exactly what we talking about. Okay.

[Tam Bam]

Exactly. You keep going back to get stank coochie that's what you talk about always.

[AJ Holiday]

These get on my nerd. They be telling on themselves so bad.

[Tam Bam]

Exactly.

[AJ Holiday]

Because why you in there, right?

[Tam Bam]

You kept going back. What he can get

[AJ Holiday]

no self respect. May y' all we can be friends if we can't be lovers. What does that sound like?

[Tam Bam]

That wasn't your best rendition.

[AJ Holiday]

That's what we talking about today, y'. All. Can men and women actually be friends? Like real platonic friends? Is it even possible?

[Tam Bam]

All right, let's get into it. We'll be right back.

[Narrator/Podcast Promos]

Hi, this is Joe Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter Podcast where we talk about astrology, natal charts and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver.

[AJ Holiday]

The Irish traveler said when I was

[Narrator/Podcast Promos]

16, you're gonna have a turkey terrible time with men. Actor, storyteller and unapologetic Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives. And I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius like are Misunderstood a Sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house Spark her unconventional approach to partnership.

[AJ Holiday]

He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different

[Narrator/Podcast Promos]

houses, in different places, but just an

[AJ Holiday]

embracing of the isness of it all.

[Narrator/Podcast Promos]

If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity and real life, this episode is a must. Listen. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcast. In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief.

[AJ Holiday]

The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is

[Tam Bam]

now the most prolific child killer in modern British history.

[Narrator/Podcast Promos]

Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict, a villain. A nurse named Lucy Letby.

[Tam Bam]

Lucy Letby has been found guilty.

[Narrator/Podcast Promos]

But what if we didn't get the whole story?

[Tam Bam]

The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses.

[Narrator/Podcast Promos]

I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast the Case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was.

[Jackie]

No voicing of any skepticism or doubt.

[AJ Holiday]

It'll cause so much harm at every single level of the British establishment of this is wrong.

[Narrator/Podcast Promos]

Listen to Doubt the Case of Lucy Letby on the IHOP Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jackie]

I'm Clayton eckerd, and in 2022, I

[AJ Holiday]

was the lead of ABC's the Bachelor.

[Narrator/Podcast Promos]

Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first Bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected. The Internet turned on him.

[Jackie]

If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would.

[Narrator/Podcast Promos]

But what happened to Clayton? After the show made even bigger headlines. It began as a one night stand and ended in a courtroom with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal.

[AJ Holiday]

The media is here.

[Tam Bam]

This case has gone viral.

[Jackie]

The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you.

[Tam Bam]

Police.

[AJ Holiday]

Search warrant. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before.

[Narrator/Podcast Promos]

I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of he said, she said and the search for accountability in a sea of lies.

[AJ Holiday]

I have done nothing except get pregnant by the Bachelor.

[Narrator/Podcast Promos]

Listen to Love trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumprite became the victim of a random crime.

[Jackie]

He pulls the gun, tells me to lie down on the ground.

[Narrator/Podcast Promos]

He identified Jermaine Hudson as the perpetrator. Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years.

[Tam Bam]

I'm like, lord, this can't be real. I thought it was a mistaken identity.

[Jackie]

The best lie is partial truth.

[Narrator/Podcast Promos]

For 22 years, only two people knew the truth. Until a confession changed everything.

[Tam Bam]

I was a monster.

[Narrator/Podcast Promos]

Listen to Burden of guilt season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tam Bam]

Guess what?

[Jackie]

I'm back.

[Tam Bam]

She back, y'.

[Jackie]

All.

[Tam Bam]

We had to bring her back. Cause we had so much fun with her on that episode that we did on the American Dream that we had to bring her back and we talking about these niggas.

[AJ Holiday]

No.

[Tam Bam]

Yeah, yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

Not for real. Kinda, y'.

[Jackie]

All.

[AJ Holiday]

We literally be coming out with topics, and Tammy be like, I don't talk about nuts. And it's so easy to talk about y'.

[Jackie]

All. Y' all make it so easy.

[Tam Bam]

I just don't want to be one of those podcasts that the only thing. We talk about these niggas all the time.

[Jackie]

You know, there are so much better things to talk about.

[Tam Bam]

Yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

But today, well, today we don't really talk about men, per se, today. So I have had, like, ongoing issues in relationships. I don't know about y' all with having male friends and maintaining your relationship.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

Do y' all think that women can actually have male friends? Because Men don't think so.

[Tam Bam]

Yes, I do think you can have a male friend, a platonic relationship. Would they fuck you? Probably, right? I think they would. But as long as you don't cross that boundary, you're just friends.

[AJ Holiday]

I think that's the boyfriend's problem, though, right? Knowing he's a man. Right. Knowing that. Let's test it. Call your best friend, male friend and say, hey, man, I was thinking, you want this pussy? And see if he declines. Now, I do have some male friends that be like, hello. Like, bitch, are you okay?

[Tam Bam]

Are you okay? Listen, I was just having that conversation with my boo, and he was like,

[AJ Holiday]

oh, tell us more.

[Tam Bam]

Y' all heard that? Yeah, with my boo.

[AJ Holiday]

Ten Valentines.

[Tam Bam]

So I was having this conversation, and he knows our close friend Terry, and he was like. I was like, that's my good friend. That's like one of my best homeboys. He. He would never have sex with me. He was like, if you tried to have sex with Terry, Terry would say no for maybe two weeks. And then he'd be like, all right it.

[AJ Holiday]

Even if you ain't even ask him again. He was like, office on the table, right? You still got some of that pussy. You was trying to get me a little bit. Let me get a third. Let me get a 3. 5 of that ass.

[Tam Bam]

A 3 5.

[Jackie]

Let me get a sample.

[Tam Bam]

So. And so do you agree with that? Like, I just feel like.

[Jackie]

I think the key word that was said was boyfriend, right? You did say boyfriend.

[AJ Holiday]

No, husband.

[Jackie]

And how many times have you cut off friends, you know what I mean? Because of the opinion of a boyfriend only to not have that boyfriend anymore. And then you. And then you have to more. You have more than the loss of your friendship. And you really can't even get it back. Because what are you supposed to say? Oh, I ain't with that N. I'm ready to be friends again. Are you ready?

[AJ Holiday]

Exactly.

[Jackie]

I know that friendship is gone. If they had any respect for themselves, that friendship would be gone.

[AJ Holiday]

Right.

[Jackie]

You know, But I mean, what can you do? Yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

Like, you abandoning your guy friends every time you get into a relationship with absolutely. Even want to call a guy insecure. Because I know, like, we jump to that a lot. Like, oh, you just insecure. But men know how men are, right? Right. So I do have some guy friends who damn their family. Like, I wouldn't even want to play with them like that. Calling them on the phone by smashing. Like, I would be embarrassed. It would be so weird, right, to even do that. But then you have some guy friends where you might. You introduced him not even like, in person. Right. When you're talking about this person to your significant other. Like, yeah, my friend. Or my homeboy, whatever. Because I have. They hate the homeboy. That's not your homeboy. Because they'll smash. I do have some guy friends that I know would smash.

[Tam Bam]

Yeah, I think most of them would.

[Jackie]

I agree. They're men at the end of the day. I think so Women can maintain. I think so.

[AJ Holiday]

Men. I think men can have female friends, but women can't have male friends. Like, we really be friends. We really put you in that. Because men.

[Jackie]

But how was a man friends with a woman? A woman's not friend with a man, if you know that's what I'm saying.

[AJ Holiday]

Because we're not going to smash that man. We're not going. We're not willing to have sex with that man. Your male best friend will possibly be willing to have sex with you at some point if you. If the occasion may arise. I think some guys end up in the friend place, Right?

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

Because we put them there.

[Tam Bam]

Right.

[AJ Holiday]

But they didn't. They. They probably. Their intentions weren't always that when y' all met. You see what I'm saying? So we put the. The difference between men and women is that men will smash you, then put you in a friend zone. We just put men in friend zone, and you.

[Tam Bam]

We don't get.

[Jackie]

And then Mike. Possibly smashed. Right. And we're not friends zone anymore. But my thing is, okay, I think, like, whenever a guy's.

[AJ Holiday]

Like whenever you smash the friend zone guy and now you're not friends.

[Jackie]

Yeah, we're not friends.

[AJ Holiday]

Okay, go ahead. We come back.

[Jackie]

But I think, like, whenever the conversation is. He's not your friend because he was smashed. Right. What does what he would do have to do with me?

[AJ Holiday]

Nothing.

[Jackie]

Absolutely. And that's where I find issue with the whole situation. Because this is like, at the end of the day, do you trust me and do you trust me? Because whether it's my friend or a man I met on the street last night, we all have the capability of getting together and doing what adults do.

[Tam Bam]

Right.

[Jackie]

Because he's my friend, and we respect each other as friends. I'm choosing not to do that. I don't want to do that with him. I want to do that with you, which is why I'm with you, period.

[AJ Holiday]

I just know. I think men know that men don't. They lack integrity. Really?

[Jackie]

Yes.

[AJ Holiday]

Right?

[Jackie]

There you go.

[Tam Bam]

Yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

Because men don't trust other men.

[Jackie]

Right.

[Tam Bam]

So I.

[AJ Holiday]

And I understand because it's just, they be like little predatorial.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

So they just. I mean, but if your girl going, she going. There's nothing exactly you could do about it.

[Jackie]

There's nothing you can do about it if, if your man is going.

[Tam Bam]

So what about like the work wife and work husband?

[AJ Holiday]

I never played no type of games like at the job. Me, I don't know, like, I've never

[Tam Bam]

been in an environment where I had like, it was always gay men because I work in a female dominated industry. So there was never a work husband to have had. But I think if I worked in a place like that, especially in my twenties. Friendly ass. Yeah. I would have had like seven work husbands in the office, you know, like

[AJ Holiday]

n in rotation by like.

[Jackie]

Right.

[Tam Bam]

Buying lunch.

[Jackie]

Buying lunch, exactly.

[Tam Bam]

Buying lunch. Seven work husbands. Fucking one, you know, and somebody wife

[AJ Holiday]

coming to beat your ass in the parking lot.

[Tam Bam]

I didn't say they were married to somebody else.

[AJ Holiday]

But usually that's the dynamic. Like that's why you call it a work husband, because you got your actual husband at the house. You got your actual wife at the house. So you playing around on the job.

[Tam Bam]

So you can only be a work husband if you're already married to somebody else.

[Jackie]

No, but I think in general, like, you know, people typically have somebody outside of work that they're dealing with or dating or married to or something.

[Tam Bam]

I heard about somebody getting their ass beat at the job like that plenty times. I'm sure, man, you ain't got time for that.

[Jackie]

I mean, but that's like your man is crossing boundaries. And at that point, you know, and if your man is uncomfortable, if, if your significant other is uncomfortable with you having like a close relationship with someone of the opposite sex in the workplace, then if they are unwilling to respect

[Tam Bam]

that boundary, then that's them. I agree.

[Jackie]

And then from there, it's your decision what you do from there.

[Tam Bam]

So let me, let me ask y' all this. If you have like, you're in a great relationship, your guy cheats on you with his work wife and y' all decide to stay together, can he keep his job or do he need to quit.

[AJ Holiday]

Getting that fired?

[Jackie]

Somebody's gotta go.

[Tam Bam]

Yeah. Cause how do you find security knowing that he has to go back to that work wife every day?

[Jackie]

You know, you can't, you cannot. I don't think you can be.

[AJ Holiday]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

Comfortable, secure in that situation.

[AJ Holiday]

But, you know, I don't, I don't know. I just, I just be feeling like humans just be doing human Shit. So I just really don't be trying to control people. So really, that's what it's about with me. Like, I don't have to have none of these people that I talk to. I don't have to talk to these people every single day. It's the fact that you think I shouldn't that I got a problem with. Because I don't have a problem.

[Jackie]

Now you want to go and talk. Now it's time to clock in.

[AJ Holiday]

Exactly. Like, don't tell me what I can't do, because I'm never telling a grown ass man what he can do. Like, you know what's. What's right from wrong. But what is good for the goose is good for the gander. So you cannot be out here with all these homegirls and then you sigh, eyeing me about every guy I talk about. Remember I've said this before how my ex was compiling a list based on general conversation. Imagine I'm like, yeah, a videographer. Thomas. Like, he got Thomas, bald head.

[Tam Bam]

Thomas bald head.

[Jackie]

Wait, hold on.

[AJ Holiday]

And the nigga got in the bag.

[Jackie]

Different people that you talk to?

[Tam Bam]

No, just their names that heard it.

[AJ Holiday]

Random people I've talked about. People that he knows that I know. He had it, like, listed in his phone. And then like one night, nine o' clock at night, we get into bed, he's like, he wants to go over the list.

[Tam Bam]

I'm like, you got a motherfucker named Thomas today?

[AJ Holiday]

You have. Look, hold on. Cause Jack wasn't on the list before,

[Jackie]

and now, now he's on the list. Where did he come from?

[AJ Holiday]

Tar nigga with dreads. Like, if you don't know the name, it's a description there.

[Tam Bam]

But that just sounds like someone who's very insecure, very.

[AJ Holiday]

Meanwhile, like, you. You got female friends that I don't give a fuck about. One of my.

[Tam Bam]

My.

[AJ Holiday]

My homeboy just recently. We haven't spoken in a long while because he's been in a relationship for the last five years. And I've been in a couple of relationships in the last five years, but he was like, I didn't have a problem not talking to anybody, but I didn't want to let you go. Like, he didn't want to not talk to me, but his girl was opposed to him having female friends. So we both Geminis. Like, we talk a lot. You know what I'm saying? When we do talk, it's like extensive conversation about all things. So imagine not being able to have a. Not. Not an outlet. Not like you need an Outlet outside of your relationship.

[Tam Bam]

Right.

[AJ Holiday]

But sometimes you do need the perspective from the opposite sex, but from someone else. Because I can't really talk to you about the things we going with.

[Jackie]

100%. Exactly. Oh, that's exactly the word I was gonna use was perspective. Like, everybody's different. Everybody comes from a different background, life experiences. And for you to say that I can't talk to another human being is crazy. That's. To me, that's what it is. Because, like, especially, like you said that y' all would get on the phone, y' all chit chat, laugh, whatever, talk. My thing is, it'd be weird if y' all got on the phone and y' all could only, you know, when she wasn't around. Right. You know what I mean? Or, like, whenever she. Whenever he called, whenever you call, he's like, oh, let me call you back up with my girl. Now, that's weird, right? But if you can have conversations, he couldn't do that.

[AJ Holiday]

But because I set the tone in my relationship, y' all just making me

[Tam Bam]

think I'm toxic right now. Cause the shit you're saying, I be like, get off the phone.

[AJ Holiday]

So, yeah, that's what you would do.

[Tam Bam]

I'm here.

[Jackie]

So can he talk to his homeboys when you're around?

[Tam Bam]

I mean, what they. I guess he can talk. Like, I just feel like I'm so busy that when I'm around, that's my time. What?

[AJ Holiday]

You know, but imagine living in a house with somebody, right? Okay. And y' all have. Okay, yeah, yeah. Like, I have male friends. I'm going to talk to them in front of my man. Like, you could possibly meet this person at some point. I don't have a lot of people that live in Charleston, but I have people, you know, all over. You could possibly meet this person at some point like this. I'm not hiding nothing when I'm talking to this person on the phone. And I want you to be able to do the same thing with the opposite sex. I don't really put that much emphasis on the sex of the person. It's a friend.

[Tam Bam]

Yeah, I agree.

[AJ Holiday]

Yeah. But men don't seem to think that. Do you have some guy friends who are currently guy friends that you have had sex with, but now y' all just like

[Tam Bam]

me?

[Jackie]

No.

[Tam Bam]

What? Why would you ask me that in

[AJ Holiday]

front of everybody, in front of my friend, in front of mixed company?

[Tam Bam]

Of course not.

[AJ Holiday]

No.

[Tam Bam]

So you asked me, do I have any guy friends that I've had sex with before in my life?

[AJ Holiday]

And they're your friend now. And you would never have sex with them again. But y' all relationship started off off as.

[Tam Bam]

Yes, I do.

[AJ Holiday]

I have hollering at you.

[Tam Bam]

Yeah, I have. You know, I've been. Yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

Would you put.

[Jackie]

Would you put your homegirl on a guy who was your friend who you had sex?

[AJ Holiday]

Girl, we be selling dick around here. Okay.

[Jackie]

Cause you listened to it recently.

[AJ Holiday]

Like some episodes back during COVID She got real. That was a whole problem in my relationship when that episode came out. World War III at home because I sold some dictatorship pan. I didn't pay for that.

[Tam Bam]

Don't say that.

[AJ Holiday]

And that's when you start calculating.

[Tam Bam]

Like. So when we went. Just passed them over, I.

[AJ Holiday]

It was Covid.

[Jackie]

So y' all worry I was ugly. Okay. It was coochie buddies.

[AJ Holiday]

Hey, coochie buddies look good.

[Tam Bam]

Coochie buddies, good connected.

[AJ Holiday]

Just y' all could go back and listen to five years ago, but Tammy was single. I'm in a relationship. It is Covid. And my friend is it heat? And I'm like, I knew a guy. He's really nice.

[Jackie]

It was going to be good.

[AJ Holiday]

You know what I'm saying? She in the house. Like, you know how cats be bumping it up and all that. I can imagine that's what she was going through lockdown.

[Jackie]

Covid, like, scratching the couch.

[AJ Holiday]

So I just climbed some dick. And he was so nice.

[Tam Bam]

He was such a nice guy. And it was like, this is so wild. I can't believe I'm talking.

[Jackie]

You tell a whole story.

[Tam Bam]

It's so wild because I was so, so scared, right? She was like. I told her, like, yeah, tell him to come over here. She. She showed me a picture of him. He was very attractive. I was like, yeah, tell him come over here. And then I was joking, though. I wasn't serious. And then she was like, he on the way?

[AJ Holiday]

No, I gave the numbers. I, I, I'm pretty sure I gave.

[Jackie]

Not, not you. Uber eats some dick.

[Tam Bam]

Yeah, that's what we called it.

[AJ Holiday]

Uber meats. Uber.

[Tam Bam]

We called it.

[AJ Holiday]

So I get. I. Y' all exchange numbers. Like, I gave him your number, gave you his number. They said they talked before he got there, right? Did you not?

[Tam Bam]

No, we didn't.

[AJ Holiday]

Y' all didn't talk on the phone before he got there? No. So he just came over there?

[Tam Bam]

He just came over there. I was so scared. I was scared.

[Jackie]

But he.

[Tam Bam]

When he got

[AJ Holiday]

scared of this random cock. I mean, come on, right? That's a real reason to.

[Jackie]

New dad is terrifying.

[AJ Holiday]

My friend says it's safe, right?

[Jackie]

My friend says it's safe.

[Tam Bam]

I was scared. But when he got. I opened the door, he looked more scared than me, so that's what made it better. He looked just as nervous, more nervous than I was.

[AJ Holiday]

So that was happy.

[Jackie]

So the agreement was to go over there and break off a little piece of meat.

[AJ Holiday]

I literally said my homegirl needed.

[Tam Bam]

Yeah. And that's really.

[Jackie]

Did he hang out? Did he stay?

[Tam Bam]

It didn't happen. Like, it wasn't just like some porno that happened.

[AJ Holiday]

Right?

[Jackie]

Where?

[Tam Bam]

Did somebody order some dick?

[Jackie]

I'm here to fix a link under the sink.

[AJ Holiday]

It was not that.

[Tam Bam]

It's Papa John

[AJ Holiday]

and I got sausage.

[Jackie]

No.

[Tam Bam]

All right.

[Jackie]

I need to pay my rent. Landlord, right?

[AJ Holiday]

No, it was nothing like that.

[Tam Bam]

We came in, we talked for hours. Okay. Before anything transpired. And that's where I leave it. Because I have a boo now. And this is so.

[AJ Holiday]

No, that ain't where I'm going. Leave it. It was just supposed to be the drop off these.

[Tam Bam]

We started, they start.

[AJ Holiday]

She cooking. He cooking Jollof rice at his house.

[Jackie]

Company was wild times. We going to chalk it up to co being wild.

[AJ Holiday]

What is happening? She was like, giving me gifts.

[Tam Bam]

I was sending her pictures of shoes.

[AJ Holiday]

I'm like, I got those wigglers. I got those. This is supposed to be one night only dream girl.

[Tam Bam]

But let's go back on topic, guys.

[Jackie]

Me and him, are y' all still friends?

[Tam Bam]

Cause we're. No.

[AJ Holiday]

I ain't talked to that nigga in years.

[Jackie]

Okay, there you go. Have you and he right here in

[AJ Holiday]

Charlotte, just in case.

[Jackie]

Oh, you want to pass him on down.

[AJ Holiday]

Boop, boop, boop.

[Jackie]

Good stuff. Third time's the charm.

[AJ Holiday]

Just in case you have a need. You have a need.

[Jackie]

I'll keep that in mind.

[Tam Bam]

So, okay, let me just say this. I have a lot of male friends, right?

[Jackie]

Uh huh.

[Tam Bam]

I just have a lot of friends period. Female and male. Right. But I'm newly seeing someone. It's getting a little bit more serious. And I don't exactly know how to navigate ending friendships or friendships that might be a little more than friendships, but not really. You know, like, people I can call and be like, let's go to dinner, you know? And I know they want to fuck. You know, I know they want to fuck me.

[AJ Holiday]

But we just want to go to

[Tam Bam]

dinner and just have good vibes or good. No, have a good time. Yeah. Exchange energy and thoughts.

[Jackie]

Yep.

[AJ Holiday]

Well, you don't need them anymore because you got your partner. That's how that's supposed to work. You know what I'm saying? You won't need those.

[Jackie]

But, I mean, doesn't everybody serve a different purpose? Like, that's. That's why we go out with our homegirls for.

[AJ Holiday]

Right.

[Jackie]

You know, this particular.

[AJ Holiday]

But these people want to smash. So with her now, this guy she's trying to build something with, would he be okay with you still going? You essentially. These men are still courting you.

[Jackie]

Okay, well, I'm say this. If it's. If not your friend, right? Because just because you have a good time when you go out to eat and have a good time doesn't mean that that's your friend. That's just like a dude, you know,

[Tam Bam]

who you like to eat with. I mean, but y' all are.

[AJ Holiday]

Y' all are people I know.

[Tam Bam]

I like to talk with. What's the difference?

[AJ Holiday]

Oh, right.

[Jackie]

So people are. For different reasons in life. So if it's just a dude who you go to dinner with and have a good time with.

[Tam Bam]

But what they've been around, like, over a decade, you know, just like throwing someone away, you know, I don't know. I don't know how to Never.

[AJ Holiday]

But men will wait in the cut for a decade.

[Jackie]

Yeah, they will.

[AJ Holiday]

Even while they got all type of other shit going on. They might not even want us. They will wait 10 years for that pussy because they. I mean, I'm getting pussy in me in the meantime, you know, they'll weed 10 years away.

[Jackie]

Nothing like Tammy's pussy.

[AJ Holiday]

You know what I mean?

[Tam Bam]

That's what they say.

[Jackie]

Can't wait.

[AJ Holiday]

That's what they say.

[Jackie]

Okay, 10 years easy. That's it.

[AJ Holiday]

Until they get it.

[Tam Bam]

That's it.

[Jackie]

We over there like, oh, she want

[Tam Bam]

to go to dinner. Y' all see that?

[Jackie]

He's up there like, tonight's the night. And Tammy's like, all right, well, you know, this was.

[Tam Bam]

No, tell my about that guy that

[Jackie]

until next time, I went on a

[Tam Bam]

date with him and he thought he was gonna fuck.

[AJ Holiday]

Who the fuck was that? And Tammy was, like, rapping. No, rapping.

[Jackie]

Or doing. Acting out.

[AJ Holiday]

Yeah, doing acting out movie scenes or some fucking weird shit. That's what she want to do for our.

[Jackie]

There was a trend on TikTok that was like, you got me drunk thinking I was gonna have sex, but really. But now I'm freestyling this.

[Tam Bam]

That is so mean.

[AJ Holiday]

That is so me.

[Tam Bam]

You'll be entertained at the very least.

[Jackie]

You won't lie.

[AJ Holiday]

Try again next time.

[Jackie]

You should have caught me during COVID Right? Facts.

[AJ Holiday]

So I think that the guys think that these men are just waiting a turn, essentially, yeah.

[Tam Bam]

And maybe some are, but those aren't your friends.

[Jackie]

Then you see what I'm saying? We should.

[AJ Holiday]

When we talk about these people, they. They wouldn't be like, that's my friend. Yeah, it would be this guy. I know, but exactly.

[Tam Bam]

Aren't all just waiting they turn.

[AJ Holiday]

Not all. That's what I'm saying. Not all. So the ones that aren't those are your actual friends? Anybody who's waiting his turn. We are miscategorizing those people. That is not your friend. That nigga does not.

[Tam Bam]

But you just got finished saying, like, you could call your friend and be like, oh, would you want some of this pussy? Like, what?

[AJ Holiday]

That dude wasn't my friend. I was. I was. Yeah, that was. He was never a friend of mine.

[Tam Bam]

So you feel like it's a guy that, you know that is your friend, that if you offered them sex, they would turn it down?

[AJ Holiday]

Yes.

[Tam Bam]

I can't think of one I don't

[Jackie]

even want to put on. Yeah, exactly. I agree. But we're also, like, talking about sex. Like, it's not something that you just call up and do over Covid or that you can do. You know what I mean? Like, girl, stop bringing that shit up. Okay, my bad, my bad, my bad. But I'm just saying it can be casual, and it can be to fulfill a need. Like, that's what all mammals in life. They need to eat, they need to drink, they need to sleep, and they need to fuck.

[Tam Bam]

Right?

[Jackie]

You know what I mean? So to me, it's like, yeah, of course a man's gonna have. I'm cute. You know, it's a whole lot of ass on this couch. Y' all can't see it, but it's a lot. You know what I mean? It is some wonderful bone structure going on. So, like, of course, like, you. We. You're. As an attractive person, your people are going to be attracted to you. And when they see that thing moving and you walk around like, you know.

[Tam Bam]

Yeah, that's what I said. They're going to.

[Jackie]

Right.

[Tam Bam]

And that's why I feel like you're being unrealistic saying that, you know, guys that are not gonna, like, they're gonna

[Jackie]

turn you down, and then you're smart, and then you're funny, and all that adds to the attraction.

[AJ Holiday]

But I have friends that I would never call on the phone, even play with them like that.

[Tam Bam]

Yeah, me too.

[Jackie]

Of course. Right?

[Tam Bam]

Yeah, me too.

[AJ Holiday]

So those are your friends, is what I'm Saying, yeah, but I definitely have guys.

[Tam Bam]

But he don't look at you and be, like, nasty.

[AJ Holiday]

No, but I call him my friend, but I know he would smash me. That's what I'm saying. We miscategorizing people. That's really not a friend.

[Jackie]

Two things can be true at once. And I also agree with that.

[Tam Bam]

Mm.

[AJ Holiday]

That's what I'm saying. Yeah. So there are some people that I wouldn't even. I would feel disgusted even playing with them, calling them about, oh, absolutely. Sex. You know what I'm saying? But there are some that I definitely will. Could call, and they like, yeah, bitch, what time?

[Tam Bam]

Yeah, when. Right.

[AJ Holiday]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

So that's.

[AJ Holiday]

I'm saying those people aren't your friend. That's not your friend. Really? They want to be. They want to smash you. I mean, I guess you can see.

[Tam Bam]

I guess maybe I'm delusional in that part. I'm delusional because I just think all niggas want to fuck me, though.

[AJ Holiday]

But you just. We just talked about little T, Like, Terry, you know?

[Tam Bam]

Yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

You think the same thing. That's.

[Tam Bam]

I don't.

[AJ Holiday]

See. That's why you're. See.

[Tam Bam]

Yeah, I don't want to think about it, exactly. But not because he's unattractive, because I

[AJ Holiday]

know he looks like. That's why I said women can have guys as friends.

[Jackie]

I mean.

[AJ Holiday]

Excuse me. That's why I said men can have women as friends, but we really can't. You know what I'm saying? Because not friends that these guys want to be. And even if they don't. I mean, they don't want to be a boyfriend or your husband, they want to smash at the minimum. Okay. They want to do that. So is it really a friend?

[Tam Bam]

Yeah, it's still a friend. I think.

[Jackie]

I think it's my little. I don't think. I don't think everybody is. I don't think everybody is your friend. I think, like, you have. There are people that you have fun with. The same with girls. Right. Everybody's not your friend.

[Tam Bam]

Right.

[Jackie]

The way that, you know, like, y' all are friends. Right.

[Tam Bam]

Sometimes.

[AJ Holiday]

Okay.

[Jackie]

Most of the time. Okay. But you have your best friends, you got your dinner friends, you got your travel friends, you got your. And, you know, it's different levels, and, like, sometimes people don't last your whole life.

[Tam Bam]

Right.

[Jackie]

So the same way. In the way that you handle those relationships, you can handle the relationships that you have with men. And although they may be platonic, they're on the. They're on a side and scale of platonicism. And so, you know, if they're on that lower level, then, you know, one might slip up and something might happen. Right. But, like, there are friends that you. That are your friends who you value to a level that you respect each other enough that that wouldn't be an issue.

[Tam Bam]

Right.

[AJ Holiday]

Yeah.

[Tam Bam]

So maybe I'm just using the term friend too loosely.

[AJ Holiday]

That's what I'm saying.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

And that's what men say. That's what our boyfriends say.

[Jackie]

Yes.

[AJ Holiday]

Because I think when you get married, it's even different. Like, I'm your friend and you my friend. Like, that's all the friends we need. But when you, like, still outside a little bit, you know, dating, you might have a boyfriend. Like, like you said, things can change overnight.

[Tam Bam]

So when you married, this can change overnight. I don't see.

[AJ Holiday]

Yeah, it's a little bit more obligation and. And different things involved. You can't.

[Jackie]

Especially in the state of North Carolina. Don't play.

[AJ Holiday]

You can't walk away overnight.

[Tam Bam]

Yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

So this article says there's, like, it's a big difference between intent and access. So why women struggle to have male friends. It says men often befriend women with. With potential in mind. Right. So I'm just waiting my turn if she ever break up, you know, these are things that they may be considering where we're just, oh, this is my friend. Right. I'll be there for her. I don't know if that's. Do black men do that? Do black men just hang in the cut and be your shoulder to lean on?

[Jackie]

Yeah, sure.

[AJ Holiday]

Sure, they do. So this says. Is. Look, let me wipe your tears. What's happening? Or add some. But it says men can. No, excuse me. Excuse me. So it's not. Friendship is positioning when men have women as friends. Right. Oh, excuse me. When women have men as friends.

[Tam Bam]

What do you mean?

[AJ Holiday]

It's. The man is positioning himself in your life, essentially. Right. Men confuse emotional intimacy with romantic opportunity. If she confides in him, Vince needs support. He reads. He reads it like we're bonding, so I'm next type shit. You know what I'm saying? Okay. It says a lot of male friendships come with hidden entitlement. Men can be friends. As long as she's single, she's accessible. Remember you saying, like, you trying to figure out how you can get rid of these people because you have been accessible to them.

[Tam Bam]

I'm not for a long time. No. Loud.

[AJ Holiday]

But it's my same problem. Yeah.

[Tam Bam]

Yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

So cutting off accessibility. There are, like, I'm in a relationship now and, and I don't know that I needed to make an announcement. I just started moving differently with the people. Right. But there are a couple people. How to say, hey, I'm in a relationship now. So that there was no, there's no. Don't get gray area. Yeah. No, because I had to, because I don't know, like these people were used to mentally a boyfriend. They almost had to break up with them to do this. Right. She doesn't reject him too hard once she draws boundaries, he acts like she betrayed him. And then it goes into why men have female friends easily. Because women are capable of genuine friendship without needing access to the body. It's just true. Women just have more friendships with people, period. You know, they always try to say, oh, you're gonna die alone with your cat. No, I won't. You're more likely to die in an old folks home by yourself with no family or friends.

[Jackie]

You know nothing about your friends.

[AJ Holiday]

Yes, women facilitate friendship, lifelong friendships where people. Not to say guys don't have friends,

[Tam Bam]

but they trip, they sometimes they don't. Like the guy I'm seeing right now, like we were talking about, about groomsmen and bridesmaids and he wouldn't have like, I would have to like get some of my male. Yeah. Like use family and to be his groomsman.

[AJ Holiday]

Why is that? Why doesn't he have any? He didn't grow up.

[Tam Bam]

No.

[AJ Holiday]

No childhood friends or anything?

[Tam Bam]

No, he has some. He just don't have the number to match mine. Oh, okay, okay.

[AJ Holiday]

I mean, you can have some of your brother's cousins,

[Jackie]

not the homeboys he's trying to get rid.

[AJ Holiday]

Shut up some of them over there. Okay. So yeah, women are more capable of genuine friendships. Women are socialized to listen, nurture, connect emotionally without expecting sex. So this is why men like women. I think most successful men have women around them, first of all, friends. So yeah, men can. Men can have women as friends. We just can't.

[Tam Bam]

But you know, I bet you if we got some men on the show they would be like, fuck are y' all talking about?

[Jackie]

Yeah, absolutely. And I was just about to say that, like, I feel like there's always the same can be said about women, Right. Because we all know, we've all experienced, you know, being on the other side of that. Right. And so. And then also we've also been on the other side of having like weird female friends where, you know, people act weird. But I think like, you know, if we just. I think the problem is when we're having this. These discussions is not leaving enough room for nuance. And the fact that every, like, people are weird and people are bad friends and people can be. You know what I mean? So as much as I want to say Nick's ain't shit, but, you know, people. People ain't shit.

[AJ Holiday]

You know, I always say that if it's a woman who says, like, like they've never been with, like, every man you've ever dated ain't, chances are you ain't either.

[Tam Bam]

Right.

[AJ Holiday]

That's really what it boils down to because. Okay, usually you mirror, right? So you're attracting this thing that you probably need to work on within yourself to attract what you think you deserve.

[Tam Bam]

Right.

[Jackie]

Right.

[AJ Holiday]

So. And this other part says, so men benefit from female friends, emotional support, advice, care, validation. But women don't always benefit from male friends the same way because the friendship may have conditions.

[Jackie]

I just think that the way that men connect with each other can be, like, very unique to men. The way that we connect in general allows for more human interaction. And because men go sweat together and they. They don't share, like, man activities together, I feel like they don't connect.

[Tam Bam]

I don't feel like they share their sexual experiences the way women do.

[AJ Holiday]

Men.

[Jackie]

Yeah, I don't know.

[AJ Holiday]

I don't know about that part.

[Jackie]

I think they might talk about sex

[Tam Bam]

not with someone that they like. They'll talk about sex with women that they don't like, but they're not going to talk about sex with women that they like. We will talk about sex with someone that we like with our closest friends. All right, girl.

[AJ Holiday]

Let me tell you what he did. Oh, I see.

[Jackie]

Yes. Or maybe he's not gonna share about

[Tam Bam]

sexual experience with a woman that he cares about. Yeah.

[Jackie]

Maybe they're less likely to be emotionally vulnerable. Yeah.

[Tam Bam]

With each other.

[Jackie]

With each other.

[Tam Bam]

I'll say that.

[Jackie]

Which essentially allows to unlock a deeper level of friendship.

[Tam Bam]

Friendship.

[Jackie]

Right. And then the women open that up as a space for a conversation because they're willing to ask those second layer and third layer questions about whatever. Whatever men have going on. Right.

[AJ Holiday]

Because men are exactly

[Jackie]

be like, oh, I broke up my girl for five years. They'd be like, damn, that's crazy.

[Tam Bam]

That's trying to get approved.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

Trying to get it right. Like, I'm shocked. Like, what happened? Like, what did we do to get her back?

[Tam Bam]

Do you want her back?

[Jackie]

What do you mean? When did this happen? Are you okay?

[Tam Bam]

Yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

That was literally me this weekend talking to my friend who I hadn't spoken to in a while because him and the girl broke up. And when he said. And I didn't, I hadn't talked to her since then. I was like, so shocked. Like, wait, what? So y' all just didn't call each other? Like, what the fuck is happening?

[Tam Bam]

Like, I'm invested.

[AJ Holiday]

Yes. I'm super invested in it. And not because I want to suck his dick. Like, I can see my friend hurting

[Jackie]

me because you've been waiting for this time.

[Tam Bam]

They're there,

[AJ Holiday]

but the men are like that. Did. What you doing tonight? You need me? Come over there.

[Tam Bam]

Right?

[AJ Holiday]

Wipe your eyes.

[Jackie]

Right? Oh, let me give you a hug. All right, Here.

[AJ Holiday]

It says women don't trust me. Oh, I don't. Let's get that. It says men don't trust women with male friends because men know how men think. They know he wants you. They know he's waiting even if he isn't. This is what their mind is, right? They know he'll shoot the shot. Shoot a shot eventually. Men aren't afraid of your male friends because of you. They are afraid of him because of them. They because of men. Men just know how men are. So this, this last segment, I want to do like a little truth bomb segment. Are the real platinum. Are you. Are your male friends real platonic friends?

[Tam Bam]

Like, this is.

[AJ Holiday]

This is what we. Green flags and red flags,

[Jackie]

okay?

[AJ Holiday]

Green flags of a true male friend. He never flirts.

[Tam Bam]

Never flirt.

[Jackie]

I'm single.

[AJ Holiday]

He respects your relationships.

[Tam Bam]

I'm single. Okay?

[AJ Holiday]

He checks himself and his boundaries. He doesn't compete with your partner. He's consistent. Not only available when you're single. He treats your partner with respect.

[Jackie]

How are we doing?

[AJ Holiday]

You look even bad.

[Jackie]

You see you feeling bad?

[Tam Bam]

I'm failing,

[AJ Holiday]

man.

[Jackie]

That man.

[Tam Bam]

And then that be like, I remember my last boyfriend, this guy who was my friend. He was like, what's up with your African?

[AJ Holiday]

He is not African. Why is he saying that?

[Tam Bam]

This he was like real dark skinned.

[AJ Holiday]

Oh, my gosh. Yo, Petty.

[Tam Bam]

Shout out to Africans, though.

[Jackie]

Yeah, okay. Shout out to motherland. We wouldn't be here without y'. All.

[AJ Holiday]

It's just a cultural difference, right. I just think we. How black men think they get better treats from white women or others. I think African men are not. Not all of them. Okay. Because I have had some really pushy African men that I've known in my life. Like, pushy. Like, you won't even give me a chance to like you. They just be so eager to aggressive.

[Tam Bam]

Yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

Like, get out my face. I'm disgusted Now. But yeah, they just. They just know, you know, what the expectation is from them, I guess, or something. Anyway, so the last green flag is he isn't protective in a territorial way. This is green flags. Okay? Red flags, red flags. He's not your friend. He texts you late at night. He compliments you too much. He dislikes every man you date.

[Jackie]

The facial expressions. Because of the bang. Because of the bang.

[Tam Bam]

Well, no. So I think about more than one person right now. And like, when I think of Terry, he's like, green flag. Right, right, right. St me. And then Elliot.

[Jackie]

Green flag, green flag.

[Tam Bam]

But then there's some people that I'm thinking about. Like, some of them. But some of them, they're just funny. Like, I just think they're jokey people. And not necessarily like, this is the

[AJ Holiday]

next red flag, bitch. He asked sexual questions as a joke. I just think they're funny. He suddenly disappears when you get a man. He tells you you deserve better. Too often he tries to come over when you're alone. That's like last example of a red flag. If y' all friendship would end if you stopped being attractive to him, that isn't your friend.

[Tam Bam]

Okay.

[Jackie]

Okay.

[Tam Bam]

I mean, I'm getting some perspective here. I think perhaps

[AJ Holiday]

so. I don't know, I just. I don't. I don't like the thought of being told what to do. I'm not telling anybody else what to do. If this is your true female friend, y' all been friends for a long time. I don't even have a problem with people meeting new people. You know, I know it might get sketchy again. We talk, Thomas, our videographer, about, you know, new friendships, new people you might meet when married. I don't see a problem with that.

[Tam Bam]

It just boils down to, do you trust your partner or not? Yeah, and.

[AJ Holiday]

And make sure every. I mean, if somebody's a habitual line stepper, they gonna do the things regardless. There's really nothing you could do about it. So policing who someone talks to, I

[Jackie]

mean, and you said something. You said something profound earlier, and I can't remember exactly how you said it. It was like, you know, people are going to be people or humans are going to human or. You know what I mean? And there is no amount of safeguards that you can put in place that's going to prevent another person from whatever decision that they're going to make.

[Tam Bam]

Right?

[AJ Holiday]

Right.

[Jackie]

So what can you do? Like, why even rack your brain and like, you know, potentially cause all this disrupt and all this stuff? You can't Trust your partner, then, like, maybe be my partner for you.

[AJ Holiday]

Yeah. And my. My same daughter.

[Tam Bam]

But what if you could take your coochie off and leave it with your like, or, like, have his dick with

[Jackie]

you, like, oh, you going on vacation? Yeah, put it in my pocketbook.

[Tam Bam]

Give me that.

[AJ Holiday]

Y' all going to Dominican Republican Republic, crazy.

[Jackie]

If you don't give me that dick,

[Tam Bam]

I'mma put it in the freezer.

[Jackie]

Okay. Lorena bob it. They found it out in the grass.

[AJ Holiday]

She threw that as she was running.

[Jackie]

She discarded it like a piece of chewed up bubble gum.

[Tam Bam]

All right, I'm saying silly shit. So do you.

[AJ Holiday]

We're now nearing the end of the conversation, clearly. Do you think women can have. Yes. Male friends?

[Tam Bam]

I still think.

[AJ Holiday]

I still think so, too. We're just women, though. We're just girls.

[Tam Bam]

Just. I do.

[AJ Holiday]

Right?

[Tam Bam]

That's it.

[AJ Holiday]

But I understand the male perspective around male friends. I definitely understand it because, I mean, yeah, y' all don't trust men for the same reasons we don't. But y' all act like we going crazy when we talk this shit about men. The same reason you wouldn't leave your girl in the house at your home. But why is that your friend if you can't leave your family with him?

[Jackie]

That's not. Let a man babysit your daughter, right? Oh, no, y' all not doing that.

[AJ Holiday]

Yeah, but that's your friend. Why would you have a male friend that you couldn't leave in charge of your family if something were to happen to you? That's not like. That's not your friend either, nigga.

[Tam Bam]

Right?

[AJ Holiday]

What are we talking about? So I feel like the bottom line, I don't know. Men need. Y' all need to do better so people can trust y' all more. Y' all can trust y' all more.

[Jackie]

If the shoe doesn't fit, if you're feeling. Feeling. If you're feeling a little touched, then

[AJ Holiday]

we talking to you.

[Jackie]

You're. This is about you. You need to look in the mirror.

[Tam Bam]

All right, what's your last list?

[AJ Holiday]

I don't know.

[Jackie]

You.

[AJ Holiday]

You should have. You have to know your personnel. Right? You know, you have to know what you're dealing with or who you're dealing with in a relationship. And I just feel like if this is something your partner is not comfortable with and it's in boyfriend, mate, husband, whatever, and this is something you don't think should be a problem in your relationship, then you might have to evaluate your whole. Because I am. And I say this often, if I'm on A plane sitting next to a man. Right. And we are talking about random. And I realize we got all these things in common. Maybe he has some resources that I might need for a thing. I'm not. Not going to get a number.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

Because of my significant other.

[Jackie]

Right.

[AJ Holiday]

I'm not. New friends get you places old friends can't sometimes.

[Tam Bam]

Yeah.

[AJ Holiday]

So if I spend my. I'm married to you. I'm with you. So that means I cut myself off from learning new things. You can't teach me. And I think that's another thing. Men don't like other people teaching their woman either. Like, that's the problem. I remember when I was doing the stock shit.

[Tam Bam]

Last. Last.

[AJ Holiday]

Oh, shit. That's how you gonna do it?

[Jackie]

Last, last.

[AJ Holiday]

Last.

[Tam Bam]

Sorry, we just got. We gotta get.

[AJ Holiday]

That's okay.

[Tam Bam]

No, you were doing.

[AJ Holiday]

You were.

[Tam Bam]

That was good. No, no, go ahead. Cause now I feel bad.

[Narrator/Podcast Promos]

What's your last.

[Jackie]

Last.

[AJ Holiday]

Don't do what you want to do, then feel bad about it.

[Tam Bam]

No, I just. Well, I didn't. I didn't know you would be so upset about it.

[AJ Holiday]

I'm not. I'm just around.

[Tam Bam]

I know.

[AJ Holiday]

Go ahead and give your last.

[Tam Bam]

Okay.

[AJ Holiday]

That's my last. Last. Just if you in a relationship with me, don't do some Out. I wouldn't do or don't do. Don't do. You wouldn't want me doing.

[Tam Bam]

That's just, you know, My last. Yeah, my last. Last is just. You gotta. If y' all don't have trust, then your relationship needs to dissolve anyway or you need to work on it. Last. Last. What's yours?

[Jackie]

Mine is do better about creating boundaries, about who is your actual friend.

[Tam Bam]

Good one, good one, good one. Co host. I'm your co host.

[AJ Holiday]

She is a co host today.

[Jackie]

Subco.

[AJ Holiday]

Is she not. Was she a guest again?

[Narrator/Podcast Promos]

Assistant.

[Jackie]

Assistant.

[AJ Holiday]

She was a guest co host. Okay, girl, you are. All right, y'.

[Tam Bam]

All.

[AJ Holiday]

If you enjoyed this episode, y' all tune in. Oh, tell us. Tell us what y' all think we wanna hear.

[Tam Bam]

No, no, wait, wait. Jackie, plug your stuff again.

[Jackie]

Oh, well, yes. I don't. I don't even think we. Did I say my name at the

[AJ Holiday]

beginning of this episode.

[Tam Bam]

I said it.

[Jackie]

Okay. Anyway, Jackie the realtor. My Instagram is carolinashomegirl, but my personal one where tomfoolery and hijinks goes down is at Jackie underscore. M, L, Y, N, N. And yeah, that's me. All right. Realtor, North Carolina. Jokes, tomfoolery, fun.

[Tam Bam]

All right, all right, y'. All. So y'.

[Jackie]

All.

[AJ Holiday]

If you enjoyed this episode, y' all tune in every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app or wherever the fuck you get your podcast at. This is your co host, AJ Holiday 2.0 on Instagram. Follow me now if you won't get on.

[Tam Bam]

I'm also a co host on this show. Official Tam Bam y'. All Me on Instagram. Follow We Talk Back podcast on Instagram. I love y' all so much. Send us your dumb stories. We need them. We always want them. Y' all remember, speak now and never

[AJ Holiday]

hold on female friends, because your nigga going to knock your head in between the Washington Dryer. Medusa We Talk Back podcast is a production of iHeartRadio. Visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.