How Can Mother-Daughter Relationships Heal? Building a Deeper and Healthier Connection

Summary

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Podcast Summary: What Your Therapist Thinks

Episode: How Can Mother-Daughter Relationships Heal? Building a Deeper and Healthier Connection

Hosts: Felicia Keller Boyle & Kristie Plantinga
Date: May 8, 2026
Guest: Brittany Scott, Licensed Professional Counselor and Mother-Daughter Relationship Expert

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Episode Overview

This Mother's Day special episode focuses on the complexities, challenges, and opportunities for healing within mother-daughter relationships. Hosts Felicia and Kristie bring on therapist Brittany Scott, whose practice centers on helping mothers and daughters build healthier, more connected relationships. The conversation unpacks cultural expectations, developmental changes, accountability, and the need for nuanced, individualized approaches to healing rifts and deepening understanding.

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Main Discussion Points

Why Specialize in Mother-Daughter Relationships? [03:17–06:25]

• Brittany Scott explains that most therapy treats family units as a whole, glossing over the unique nuances of the mother-daughter bond:

  “The mother-daughter relationship is just so nuanced that it needs to be its own separate thing.” (Brittany, 03:49)

• Traditional therapy education often focuses on blaming mothers, but not on repair or understanding the social context:

  “It turns out to be, like, patriarchal, like blaming mom for everything...there’s so much more there.” (Brittany, 05:59)

Breaking the Blame Cycle and Embracing Nuance [06:25–09:55]

• Hosts and Guest discuss societal extremes: enmeshment versus complete estrangement and the tendency to scapegoat mothers.
• Recognition of the immense, often contradictory pressures on mothers from the earliest stages:

  “It definitely feels like you have this magnifying glass on you even when you’re pregnant.” (Kristie, 07:15)

Qualities of a Healthy Mother-Daughter Relationship [08:01–09:55]

• Healthy dynamics change with age; boundaries and autonomy are crucial:

  “We know where mom ends and where daughter begins, but we know that they are in a relationship...there’s a clear separation between the two. I think that’s how you build healthy trust.” (Brittany, 08:01)

• The developmental process of separation, especially in adolescence, can create natural friction.

Accountability and Story Sharing [10:46–12:18]

• The therapeutic process holds mothers to greater accountability, given their role, but also invites empathy by reframing mothers as daughters and unique individuals:

  “Let’s see who she was as a daughter...as a young woman before she became a mom...That starts to change everything.” (Brittany, 11:08)

Societal and Patriarchal Impacts [13:07–14:07]

• Pressure and blame fall on both sides; patterns of internalized patriarchy pit mothers and daughters against each other instead of interrogating systemic male absence.

Repairing Broken Mother-Daughter Relationships [15:00–17:58]

• Repair work starts with each person’s perspective on the “break” moment, followed by exploring the repeated patterns that led to it:

  “They never remember it the same...I have to tell them I’m not here to find the truth...We’re here to rebuild.” (Brittany, 15:44)

• Parent-child relationships are not equal; power dynamics mean the same event is experienced and recalled differently.

Navigating Estrangement and Boundaries [20:33–24:08]

• Real Reddit posts prompt discussion about estrangement and moral guilt:

  “Should a daughter have to endure abuse over and over again even though she’s requested that it stop just because that’s her mom?...We would never say that about any other relationship.” (Brittany, 21:44)

• Cultural context is pivotal; in some families, cutting off a parent means losing one’s entire network.

The Myth of “No Contact” as Therapy [25:05–29:54]

• Contrary to online tropes, therapists rarely tell clients to cut off family:

  “Therapists who are behaving ethically are not there to, like, give advice and tell their clients who they should be in relationship with...that’s not how we actually help people in a therapeutic way.” (Felicia, 26:23)

Essential Mother-Daughter Conversations [30:32–36:10]

• Reddit prompts highlight the lack of meaningful conversations in some mother-daughter relationships and ask what topics truly matter:

  “I think talking about self esteem and self worth... Sex, love and relationships... Friendships... Finances... taking away shame from money. Those are the top ones that come to mind.” (Brittany, 32:06)

• Felicia shares a practical question for building connection:

  “What was the best thing that happened and the worst thing that happened while you were away?” (Felicia, 33:18)

• Early, safe conversations about small things build trust for bigger talks as children mature.

Vulnerability, Shame, & Opening Up [36:10–40:19]

• Moms sometimes withhold vulnerability to maintain their “role,” but sharing stories builds depth.

  “Some moms really keep that mother-daughter line tight...but it’s really just like, I’m mom, I can’t tell her all these things... You can, I promise you can.” (Brittany, 38:16)

The Role and Timing of Difficult Conversations [40:19–41:57]

• Whether to address hurts depends on timing and readiness; sometimes, repair is prioritized over rehashing pain—sometimes not.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Felicia on mother-blame:

  “Moms are also this really easy scapegoat for a lot of problems. And so it seems to me like there is such a big need for a really balanced and real perspective that isn’t so extreme in either direction...” [06:25]

• Brittany on apologies:

  “If you could just apologize. Just say you’re sorry and mean it so we can move on. They hold that back a lot because...they just want to be right.” [42:22]

• Brittany’s therapist “inside scoop” on daughters:

  “You have your mom right here in front of you, and she’s saying yes...Can we just move forward? Or do you need us to stay in the past and continue hashing this out?” [43:08]

• Felicia on therapist boundaries:

  “Therapists are real people with real reactions. We’re thinking the same things that maybe your friends are thinking sometimes. But we have this training...that helps us make decisions in those moments to actually support the process...” [43:50]

• Brittany on the unbreakable ideal:

  “Your relationship with your mom is never supposed to break. That’s supposed to be the one person that loves you no matter what.” [44:31]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction of Guest & Theme: [02:44–03:49]
• Main Gaps in Therapy for Moms/Daughters: [03:49–06:25]
• Blame & Cultural Context: [06:25–09:55]
• What Makes Relationships Healthy: [08:01–09:55]
• Therapist's Approach to Repair: [10:46–12:18]
• Cultural/Patriarchal Nuances: [13:07–14:07]
• How to Start Repair: [15:00–17:58]
• Power Dynamics: [17:29–17:58]
• Reddit Story #1 (Estrangement): [18:39–24:08]
• “No Contact” Discourse Online: [25:05–29:54]
• Reddit Story #2 (Essential Conversations): [30:32–36:10]
• Building Connection Through Vulnerability: [36:10–40:19]
• Role of Apologies & Stuck Points: [42:22–44:31]
• Where to Find Guest Brittany Scott: [46:08–47:01]

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Takeaway Messages

• Mother-daughter relationships are formative and deeply complex; healing rarely happens through blame or abrupt estrangement, but through building mutual understanding, accountability, and communication.
• Ethical therapists don’t dictate clients’ family decisions, but help them find the tools and support for whatever choices they make.
• Important conversations—on boundaries, self-worth, sex, relationships, and vulnerability—should begin early and continue throughout life, matching developmental needs.
• Both mothers and daughters can benefit from seeing each other as individual women with pasts, stories, and struggles, not just static roles.
• Cultural and societal frameworks heavily influence what’s possible and acceptable in these relationships, highlighting the need for individualized, compassionate approaches.

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Links and Resources

• Guest: Brittany Scott, host of the Mother Daughter Relationship Show
• BestTherapists.com: Therapist directory for vetted professionals
• What Your Therapist Thinks YouTube Channel: YouTube Link
• Guest’s social media: Most active on Threads
• Show Notes for links to Brittany’s work and social accounts

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This episode offers practical wisdom, real-life nuance, and a little therapist candor for anyone navigating the joys and pains of the mother-daughter bond.

Transcript

[A]

Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shankar, a cognitive scientist and host of the podcast A Slight Change of Plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans.

[B]

I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change.

[C]

We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes.

[D]

You can have opinions, you can have,

[C]

like a strong stance, and then there's

[D]

your body having its own program.

[A]

Listen to A Slight Change of Plans. Wherever you get your podcasts,

[D]

your relationship with your mom is never supposed to break. That's supposed to be the one person that loves you no matter what.

[C]

I think when mom does have some mental health problems that she struggles to take accountability. That's just a really, really difficult thing to repair.

[D]

If you start when she's young and she's upset that they had the wrong ice cream but you didn't make that a small thing, then you get the bigger stor.

[B]

I feel like for a while there was this kind of online message of just don't have contact. I don't actually think therapists in therapy are advocating for that.

[D]

Okay, I want to tell her that.

[B]

If you're new here, welcome. I'm Felicia Keller Boyle, a licensed somatic therapist and clinical advisor at Best Therapists.

[A]

And I'm Kristi Plantingo, founder of Best Therapist and therapy connoisseur.

[B]

This is what your therapist thinks. A mental health show where actual therapists open up about real world stories and the questions people wish they could ask them.

[A]

And by real world, we mean Reddit posts incognito, Google searches, and the things you want to bring up in therapy, but maybe you don't.

[B]

You'll hear conversations on everything from the best dating advice to adhd, EMDR therapy,

[A]

body dysmorphia, and more. Sometimes it will make you feel seen,

[B]

and sometimes it'll make you laugh out loud.

[A]

We're so glad you're here.

[B]

Now let's get into the episode.

[C]

Welcome back to what yout Therapist Thinks. I'm your host, Christy Plantinga, and I've been in a lot of therapy.

[B]

And I'm Felicia Keller Boyle, licensed somatic therapist in California. As you know, we wrapped up season two, but we couldn't resist the chance to bring you a very special episode. Given that it's Mother's Day and there's a lot of mother energy up in the field right now, we're Whether you are a mother or you have a mother, whether you feel good in that relationship or you don't feel good in that Relationship. It's something that's just really alive for a lot of people. And so we wanted to bring an episode devoted to that special mother child relationship. So today we have licensed therapist and mother daughter expert, Brittany Scott.

[C]

Brittany is a licensed professional counselor and coach with a background in supporting families, teens and young adults as both a daughter and a mother. She's passionate about helping women and girls strengthen their mother daughter relationships. To find deeper connection and healing, she offers individual and mother daughter coaching, leads a supportive community for black moms, shares insightful blog content, and hosts the Mother Daughter Relationship show podcast.

[B]

Welcome to the show. Brittany Brittani. We're so excited to have you here today.

[D]

I'm excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

[C]

This is such a fascinating topic. And upon reflection, getting this episode scheduled and recording together today, I'm almost surprised that there aren't more therapists that I know of that specialize in this because it's the first relationship we have for many people. It's one of the most formative relationships that we have. I mean, this doesn't even really have to do that much with the mother daughter relationship. But why do you think that there is less specialization around this, Brittany?

[D]

I think it's because people just focus on the family unit as a whole. And so you'll have people that do just family therapy, and so they're wrapping all of that into one. But I think the mother daughter relationship is just so nuanced that it needs to be its own separate thing.

[B]

What made you decide to focus specifically on that mother daughter relationship? Why do you think it deserves it? Its own platform, its own thing.

[D]

Yeah. So I started working with teenagers and that's how I got into family work. And then I just love teen girls. And so I kind of narrowed down my work that way again. And so with teen girls and with young adults and young women that I was working with, once we kind of got down to the root of what's going on, so they bring this issue, whatever the issue is. And my work has always involved, like, what's at the center of this. Something has started this or created this. Let's find it. And what I was finding is that mom was usually at the center of that. And whether it was good or bad or positive or negative, mom was right there. But then I didn't know what to do. None of the family systems work. Nothing that I had learned about parents or families or anything in therapy prepared me for what happens now? What do they need? What's causing this? And so I want to just Learn how moms and daughters attach.

[B]

So you really saw that there was a gap, it sounds like, both in services that were being offered and also around education. And I don't know if you encountered this, Brittany, but I feel like in my training as a therapist, there was actually quite a lot of emphasis on mom. And there are these very archaic concepts, like the schizophrenogenic mother. Do you remember this concept?

[C]

It's awful.

[B]

It basically says, like, if a person's schizophrenic, it's basically because of the moment. So it's so interesting that there's both this emphasis on. In kind of, like, classical psychoanalysis, classical psychoanalytic perspectives. But then in our modern era, we're actually not seeing, or at least you didn't see, as much emphasis on this really crucial relationship. And so that's so cool that you felt inspired to, like, step in and fill that gap.

[D]

Yeah. And figure out what was there that we just did not learn. And most things with moms, like, in school, it turns out to be, like, patriarchal, like, blaming mom for everything, of course, but pretending like she's the only one that did this without looking at all of the social constructs and context around it. But she was the issue because she was mom, and she should have known better. And it's like, there's so much more there.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, moms are also this really easy scapegoat for a lot of problems. And so it seems to me like there is such a big need for a really balanced and real perspective that isn't so extreme in either direction, like, totally cutting out and ignoring that relationship or blaming mom for everything. And I'm sure, hopefully, if moms are listening to this right now, they're like, oh, thank God. Like, I'm so tired of those two extremes. And I know you're both mothers. Christie is a new mom. Brittany, you're a mom of a little. So the pressure is immense on mothers from. I was gonna say day one, but I'm imagining, like, day negative, whatever, to

[C]

the day you get your positive pregnancy test.

[B]

It's like, oh, okay.

[C]

It definitely feels like you have this magnifying glass on you even when you're pregnant. It's like, oh, what's in her glass? And, like, is she doing this? Is she doing that? And then it's just forever from there with everything you do with your kids.

[B]

Absolutely. So I'm sure we have tons to talk about today.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And I'm so interested to get back to the patriarchal component of that But I am curious. We talk about these different extremes and that's absolutely something I was seeing online. We're either talking about the enmeshed relationship or the no contact thing. And it makes sense. Like people are going to look for advice when they're in more of those extreme situations. But if you were to describe a healthy relationship between a mother and a daughter, what does that relationship look like?

[D]

Yeah, that's a good question. When we look at a healthy mom and daughter relationship, I would want to know the age of the daughter because that's going to make it change for sure. But if I'm looking at an adult mom and daughter, we know where mom ends and where daughter begins, but we know that they are in a relationship. Like we know their mom and daughter, but they're not so enmeshed together that it's like daughter's life is mom's life and mom is living through daughter and daughter can't make decisions without mom. And it's like they're just intertwined. That's too much. But also it's not where daughter doesn't trust mom or mom doesn't trust daughter and they're not talking or they just bicker whenever they're together. It's like we see that this is a relationship, they're together, you know. But I see mom and I see daughter and there's a clear separation between the two. I think that's how you build like healthy trust between the two.

[B]

Yeah, I like that framework. And it seems kind of obvious when you say it right, but it's obviously super important. These are two distinct individuals who are in relationship with each other, but not to the point where they become indistinguishable or they don't have autonomy, they don't have this sense of freedom to make their own decisions. And that to me sounds like it's absolutely a developmental process. Cuz the first thing you said is, well, how old are these people? How old is the daughter? And of course when the daughter is a child, then there is gonna be a lot more overlap. Right. Daughter starts out as literally part of mom's body and then over time moves.

[D]

Then we're like pulling them off, like, okay, stop living in my skin, please.

[B]

I need some space. Right. That's also a stage probably for mom and for a daughter at some point. And maybe those align and probably sometimes they don'.

[D]

Too.

[B]

Like maybe one person is ready for more space before the other. And that's part of the tension of navigating those needs throughout the course of each Person's life.

[D]

Yeah. And that specifically is usually teenage years, daughters ready, and then mom is like, wait, hold on, and pulling closer, and then it doesn't work out.

[C]

I love that you're a mom and a daughter.

[D]

Right.

[C]

Because we get this balanced approach. But I think a lot of the times we want to kind of assign blame and we assume that it has to be the mother's fault or the responsibility because they're the parent. Right. But at the same time, I think just that approach probably very much limits what could be done to actually healing or improving a relationship. If we're only looking at, you know, mom is the one who's responsible for this and that. So in your work, how do you try to take an approach where you're advocating both for mom and daughter, Although it's very traditional to say, like, oh, that's the parent. They're the one that's responsible. I don't know. I'm really curious to hear how you approach that.

[D]

Yeah. So I actually have to explain that a lot, that I am going to hold the mom in the room to a little bit more accountability because she is the mother and she was the one who did the raising and the child rearing. But when I have an adult mom and daughter in the room together, there's a point in time during our work that I put mom into the daughter role, and daughter has to listen to her mom's story as a daughter. And so it's kind of like, knock her off this pedestal of mom is supposed to be this all amazing, never messing up person. And let's see who she was as a daughter, see who she was as a young woman before she became a mom, or see who she was when she became a mom. And she just wasn't ready. So she didn't get the middle young womanhood kind of pieces. So I put mom as a daughter role, and that starts to change everything.

[B]

I love that you said that. I am flashing back to moments with my own mom where I've heard parts of her story, and I love hearing about my mom's life before I was born or just what she was thinking about when she was new in her motherhood. And I'm just like, like, holy cow. You were just like regular lady. Like, you weren't born a mom. You're like a person living your own life. And then you're like, oh, now I'm having a kid. And that's wild, you know, and just the challenges she had, the ways that she was thinking about it, and I'm old Enough now that I can be really curious about that and not take it too personally. And it's really just fascinating to get to know her better in these ways.

[D]

Yeah, but don't you see her differently when you remove her from the mom role?

[B]

It's like a completely different. Totally, completely different lens. This came up earlier, Christie, when you were asking that question initially, because as a person who is a daughter and not a mom, I want to just give a daughter perspective here that, yes, so often we do just fall into the habit of blaming moms, But I also think that there are a lot of daughters who also get blamed. You know what I mean? That the responsibility goes on them. So I want to say absolutely, both happen. I think maybe we don't actually talk as much about situations where daughters are actually the ones who tend to be the ones being blamed. But I don't know, maybe that's just my perspective. And I would imagine moms are like, oh, I'm always being blamed. And daughters are probably like, oh, I'm always being blamed. It's so easy to see it from your own perspective rather than the other person's.

[D]

Yeah. And it's both like, daughters are told they're ungrateful and that they're just crying or whining about things or they remember things wrong. I think both sides are getting it. And honestly, that brings back, like, patriarchy, that now we have women fighting women about who messed up the relationship. And it's like, okay, where was dad? Where was husband? Where were all the men in the family that clearly just didn't play a role in this at all.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, that is really. It's a whole other episode.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Like, we could so easily just turn in that direction, be like, never mind, we're not even talking about mother daughters. Where are the dads? Where are the uncles? Where are the grandpas? You know, where are the. Where are the brothers? Right. But yeah, you make a really good point that there's a lot of pressure on women in general. And then of course, that's going to be represented in the context of the mother daughter relationship. It's not like we're going to somehow escape patriarchy in this relationship between two women. It's going to show up there, too.

[C]

So I want to get into some specifics in just a sec, because I'm assuming that there are obviously mothers out there. Like all the mom subreddits, you know, in the world, I'm sure, are talking about all this stuff too. But when I was searching this, it was predominantly the daughter perspective and all of this stuff. And I think that has some really complicated overlaps with mental health problems. Because, yeah, like, I think one mom does have some mental health problems that really. She struggles to take accountability because of some of those. Like, that's just a really, really difficult thing to repair. But let's say there's a broken mother daughter relationship in your practice, in your coaching practice, or your therapy work. Where do you start that repair if both mother and daughter are willing to do that?

[D]

Yeah. So I start with the breakdown. I want to know from both perspectives and both experiences, what was the final event? If you could decide, like, you know what this is, the one where I was like, this is completely broken. This is not working. I'm upset. I can't be here. I don't want to engage anymore. What was that? And then from there, we kind of go backwards a little bit, because then I want to know kind of what led up to this? What were some of the patterns that maybe kept repeating the behaviors that just weren't working that got you to that final event? And then from that, we build it back up.

[B]

What do you usually find when mothers and daughters are sharing about that event, about what happened that caused them to break the relationship?

[D]

They never remember it the same. I would say that would be the common thing, that it's never told the same. Someone's lying, someone's not remembering it correctly, Someone's leaving out parts of the story. So I have to tell them that I'm not here to find the truth. I don't really care. It already happened. So we're not here to prove who's right. We're here to rebuild the relationship. So I'm gonna believe you that this hurt you, and I'm gonna believe you that you didn't intend to do this and you don't remember it. Okay, great. Now what do we do from here? And that usually kind of lowers the defenses when I tell them that it doesn't matter who's right. We're gonna go with your both. Right.

[B]

I think that's so important. Whenever you're doing relationship work in therapy, whether it's with adult, parent, child, or people who are romantically involved with each other. I think I would sometimes say to my clients, like, I'm not a judge here. I'm not here to, like, bestow a verdict or issue a verdict on who was right in this past scenario that I was not there for. This is all, like, secondhand information. Time has passed. We know that our memories aren't always super reliable. And even if they were completely reliable, even if one person was actually 100% right in their telling of what happened, that's not actually what is most important. Right. What's most important is what kind of meaning did we make of what happened? What was the impact? And like you said, Brittany, then after hearing about the particular scenario that preceded the break, you're also wanting to know what were the patterns that existed before this happens? Because usually for a lot of these relationships, especially given how important they are, people usually don't decide to end a relationship just because of one bad thing that happened. There's usually like years of experiences that have caused a lot of pain over time.

[D]

And I think with parent relationships and mother daughter relationships, that also makes it a little bit harder is that unlike romantic relationships where they're equals, a parent and a child are never equal. The experience is never the same. They're never going to recall it the same no matter how hard they try because of the hierarchy. And one was usually a child when these things were happening. So something that is very small to a parent can be huge to a 12 year old and a 16 year old. And so that plays a role too.

[B]

Oh my gosh, that's such a good point. I'm so glad you mentioned that. I don't think I would have thought to bring that into the equation. But you're absolutely right. This is different than a romantic partnership. This is different than like siblings or friends that are having trouble. There is this power dynamic that is always present in a parent child relationship. And I'm also thinking about what happens as we get older and parents start to age. Right then there's a different power dynamic there. There's always something around power in these relationships and how that changes over time.

[C]

Yeah. All right, I am ready for our first Reddit story if all of you are.

[B]

I'm excited and scared.

[C]

There was some really, really sad stuff that I came across. A lot of just abuse from moms to their daughters. And this one, I mean, obviously I'm not the professional. I'm not going to say if it is or not, but I am very, very curious to hear your takes on this. So this is in the subreddit mommyissues101. Would I be a bad daughter if I never talked to my mother again? Basically what the title suggests. Ever since I was young, my mother would constantly make comments about my appearance, whether it be my weight or blemishes on my face. It has gotten to a point where I have zero self confidence and no Matter what I do, I always feel ugly and never enough for her. What really broke the camel's back was when I was getting ready for work a couple days ago. I asked her what she thought of my getup, as in whether or not my outfit was acceptable for work. And she called me huge. That really set me off. I felt so humiliated and embarrassed that I change out of that outfit immediately. I have now decided that I'm just simply not going to talk to her ever. Or at the very least, keep my contact with her as small as possible. It generally hurts to even look at her now, and I just don't know what to do anymore. I had a talk with her about two to three years ago about how her comments on my face, I had started developing acne at that time and body were really hurting me. And she apologized, not out of sincerity, because that's what she felt obligated to. At least that's what I think. Because if she was truly sorry, then she would have stopped. I know all this sounds so trivial and petty, but I'm currently at my wit's end. I'm the lowest I've ever felt in a while. And the searing realization that my own mother doesn't respect me or my boundaries has completely broken me. I want to move out, but I'm still saving up money. Am I a horrible person, daughter, for doing this? Is this too far? Do I sweep this under the rug and move on? Or do I stand my ground?

[D]

Well, you're not a horrible daughter. If that's what you need to do to take care of yourself, then do it. I don't like the idea that we need permission to make big decisions. If that's what's going to be best for her, then I say go for it. But if she were a client, I would say she's being very reactive, so I would want to slow her down and actually make a healthy decision that included some good boundaries. But is she the asshole? No.

[C]

I'm kind of curious about the moral judgment side of things. There's a lot of just like venting online, right? Like, my mom did this, but she's kind of coming at it from this perspective of, am I a horrible person if I end my relationship with my mom? And I think there's something there societally about this, you know, indebtedness almost, that we have to our mothers for whatever reason. I don't know. I'm just curious about the morality behind it. That's kind of where this person is coming from. And almost if, like, to your Point, she wants to do this for herself, to protect herself, but that's what she feels like, the consequences. Not even like losing the relationship. She doesn't talk about that. She talks about, am I bad if I do that? Yeah.

[D]

Is she going to be bad in society's eyes? Yeah. Are people are going to tell her that? That's so small and petty. And you would stop talking to your mom over that kind of thing? I think she'd absolutely hear that. But even that's not fair, because should a daughter have to endure abuse over and over again even though she's requested that it stop just because that's her mom? We would never say that about any other relationship. If that were a boyfriend or a husband, we'd tell her, get out of there. If that was a friend, we'd tell her to end the friendship because it's her mom. You must endure. It's not fair, but that's what society is probably going to say.

[B]

I also wonder about the cultural aspect of these kinds of relationships too, because I do think, like, within America and of course, all over the world, there's so many different norms for what is okay to happen in a relationship. And I know that in some cases, in some families, this form of criticism and, you know, quote unquote, feedback, but feedback that can feel pretty harsh is just totally acceptable or totally accepted. Right. And so I'm thinking about, you know, if this person actually comes from a family that is much more individualistic, cutting ties might be less of an issue than like a family that is super collectivist, where you just kind of are like, oh, that's just how mom talks. That's just how it always is. And you just kind of deal with it. So, yeah. I'm curious, Brittany, how do you find culture impacts these kinds of decisions? How does it impact the mother, daughter relationship and kind of boundaries or what's considered a boundary?

[D]

Yeah, so it impacts it a lot, actually. And that's one of the nuances that I have to be careful for. And also, I never recommend estrangement or cutting off contact to anybody. That's their decision. I help them through the aftermath of whatever decision they make. And really, for that very reason, not every culture will respect that. And sometimes if you cut off your mom, you lose the entire family. And so daughters stay for everyone else. But, yeah, that's a huge portion of it. And it comes to the point where you're just like, kind of dead to the family, basically. You're disowned, you lose everyone. You don't just Lose mom. And so, yeah, I would have to know where she comes from and what happens. That way we can make a better choice or a better plan on how to manage this.

[A]

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use our promo code WYTT for up to 20% [e-mail]. yeah, exactly. So it sounds like in a therapy session with a client like this, you're never the one who's like, have you thought about just cutting off your mom?

[D]

Like,

[B]

I get the sense that there was so much buzz for quite a while around going no contact. And I think that it's one of those pendulums that maybe swung really hard in one direction to maybe compensate for the fact that that is actually such an unpopular thing to do. But I feel like for a while there was this kind of online message of just like, just get rid of them, break up with them, cut them off, go, no contact, like, whatever. The thing is just like slash and burn relationships that aren't working for you. And I don't actually think therapists in therapy are advocating for that with their clients. But I do think it became a trope of like, well, my therapist told me I should just like cut off my mom. And it's like, I don't really think therapists are doing that in session work. I really hope they're not. I almost said they're doing what you described, Britney.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Maybe in, like, the back of their mind, they're like, they just need to call this.

[B]

Right. It's like, we might be thinking that.

[D]

Right.

[B]

This is called what your therapist thinks. And we always like to ask, okay, what's the thing that you wouldn't actually say to a client but are actually thinking? And this might be one of those things. But, like, in reality, therapists who are behaving ethically are not there to, like, give advice and tell their clients who they should be in relationship with. Like, even in really, really clear cases of abuse, therapists are not supposed to say, well, you have to get out of there. Right. That's not how we actually help people in a therapeutic way.

[D]

Yeah. So, I mean, I hope there are not therapists that are advocating for estrangement, but I've seen it online, so it's like, I don't know who's lying, but I hope it's not the therapist. Right.

[B]

For people who are online being like, my therapist told me to, you're like, are you lying or are they lying?

[C]

Or maybe they're kind of interpreting it that way. We all do it, right? Sometimes, like, we hear what we want to hear.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, it's like my therapist said that my mom is the worst, therefore my mom is the worst, and I can do, you know, whatever. And sometimes it's like, yeah, your mom is terrible. Like, she's not a good person to

[D]

have in your life.

[C]

But still. Yeah, it's not the therapist's call. So I don't know. It's really interesting. Like, this kind of overlaps with therapist influencers.

[D]

Right.

[C]

That's just kind of like an interesting thing that's been unfolding. But, yeah, I mean, from my just kind of impression of years ago, I think the concept of boundaries was really taking off online. Like, just as almost TikTok was really starting to come online. That's when I was noticing more content like that. But then that could have just been

[B]

my own feed, right?

[C]

That could have been absolutely my own.

[B]

I don't think it was just their own feed. Yeah. Listeners tell us. Yeah, yeah.

[C]

How are you feeling about this episode? Do you feel like a couple years ago this episode would have been like, cut them off?

[B]

I don't know.

[C]

It's interesting, though.

[B]

Totally. I feel like that would have been the vibe a few years ago to just be like, walk away. It's not healthy. I think that also coincided with the popularity of the word toxic and, like, relationships that were not ideal being Toxic. And I think so many of our episodes, annoyingly. And just like therapy itself always boils down to it depends. And like, having a nuanced perspective. And at the end of the day, it's like, this is a podcast where we're trying to comment on these issues, but it is absolutely not the same as working with a real therapist who can really get to know you and your situation. And, I mean, that's why we created BestTherapist.com so that people could find therapists who are vetted and focus on fit, not quality. So if you're listening to this and you're in a situation, whether you're the mother or the daughter, and you're like, I actually need some expert support support with this. I don't need someone who's just going to tell me what to do, but actually help you through finding your own best decision. Then go to BestTherapist.com and find a therapist right now.

[C]

And to be clear, I have asked my therapist what should I do? And she was like, you know, I'm not going to do that. She straight up was like, we have been together for years. Like, do you really think that that is how I would approach this?

[B]

I love how you think you're so sneaky, Cristy, and you're not.

[D]

When my clients do that, I give three examples. I'm like, oh, okay, well, I would do this, this, or this, but I don't know which one I would actually pick. Like, I give more than one, and that way it's still not my idea.

[B]

I really like to do this thing with my clients where I would ask them to, like, list all the possible options, including things they wouldn't do. So one scenario would be like, oh, I'm really unhappy at work. And it's like, yeah, you could run into the office, like, jump up on the desk and start yelling at people. You probably wouldn't do that, but, like, you technically could do that. So, like, what else could you do? You know, just kind of trying to, like, get out of the box of you therapist have the answers, but it's like, really, what are all of the options? And sometimes when you consider really absurd things that you would actually never do, you start to, like, actually find in the midst of all of that something that you would actually want to do.

[C]

Okay, I want to move on to this next one, because I think this

[B]

is a little for everyone.

[C]

The daughters, the mothers, the maybe mothers, the never mothers. Okay. This is all something that I think everyone should be able to have an opinion on this is in the subreddit ask women over 30 what are some of the important conversations a mother and daughter should have? My mother has never had one single meaningful conversation with me.

[B]

Ever.

[C]

She can be supportive in her own ways, usually through material things, but is completely incapable of providing that kind of guidance and emotional support and has never passed down any lessons, so to speak. We never spoke about sex, consent, self esteem, self realization and development, mental health, relationships, navigating the digital world, etc. Basically those big topics where inexperience and naivete can easily lead to hurt and disappointment and you'd ideally want to equip your kids with some guidance as they discover themselves and the world around them. I learned the hard way and as a girl young woman I felt very alone and very much like a naive kid in a grown up body. While everyone around me seemed to be 10 steps ahead, I was very insecure and easy to take advantage of. I'm thinking of having kids soon and I'd like to be better prepared. What are some of the milestone conversations that you've had with your mother that have helped you navigate and make sense of the world? What topics and guidance has she provided that you found empowering can be about anything at any age? Also, what has she done that has made it easy to develop a deep bond that facilitates meaningful conversations versus a more shallow transactional relationship?

[D]

I love that question. That's huge. I feel like we could all just sit here and list a bunch of things that either we think moms and daughters should talk about or we wished our moms maybe would have talked to us about. So I'm going to start with coming of age. I think talking about self esteem and self worth that has to be built up in a girl and so I think moms should be talking to their daughters about that and building her up. I think sex, love and relationships. I would hate for my daughter to be 20 years old and figuring it out from a boyfriend versus having learned that from me. Friendships. I think there's a lot of girls who don't know how to have friendships with other girls because it wasn't really discussed. And I personally think that's part of where we get the I just get along better with guys from because moms didn't teach them how to be in relationships with other girls and so it's a struggle and I think finances. I would also teach my daughter about managing her money and also taking away shame from money. So if she ever got into money trouble I'd want her to come directly to Me, there's no shame. I'm not gonna make you feel bad about it. Let's fix it. Those are the top ones that come to mind for me for, like, coming of age.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So two things come to mind here. One of them is something I learned many, many years ago from a grandmother. She said that she would always ask her granddaughter whenever she would come back home after being away, what was the best thing that happened and the worst thing that happened while you were away. And when it comes to mom daughter relationships especially, and I think this is a great question to ask child of any age, of any gender, but where this was coming from, this grandmother was really wanting to keep her granddaughter safe and really wanting to open up communication in case anything really harmful would happen to her granddaughter, that her granddaughter would always know whatever the worst thing that happened while she was away, she could tell her. And so whether that was like, you know, they didn't have the ice cream I wanted, or like, someone was mean to me on the playground, or like something really bad happened, that line of communication would always be open and normalized. And I was like, I am locking this one away. This is, like, one of the best pieces of advice I have ever heard about raising children, about raising girls. So I think that's just really, really brilliant. And that's the segue to, like, any number of conversations, right? Because depending on what the kid says, you're going to learn about the things that make them joyful and make them happy and light them up, and you're also going to learn about the things that are really hard for them. So it's just a really powerful set of questions to ask.

[C]

I just think that's a really beautiful framing. I'm sure in all of your clinical experience, Brittany, it's probably the shame that keeps back most of the things that daughters really want to tell their mom. Like you were saying with finances, I'm so ashamed that I racked up some credit card debt. I am so ashamed that I got too drunk at this party and I didn't want to tell my mom that her little girl could do this or what. That's just such a nice tool in your tool belt. I think as a therapist to just kind of start there, because then from

[B]

a very young age, it's like, oh,

[C]

I can tell mom when something happened that I didn't feel good about, you know, and, like, just getting used to that. Because also, it's like, there's a lot of, I think, ego involved in parenting. And a lot of people see kids as an extension of themselves. And so there's also like, I don't want to make my mom feel bad about herself. Almost like, oh my God, I'm such a bad mom. I can't believe that happened. It's not always about the kid. Like, sometimes it becomes about the mom too. So I think that's just an excellent framing.

[D]

Yeah. And if you start when she's young and she's upset that they had the wrong ice cream, but you didn't make that a small thing, it's like, man, that really sucks. Then you get the bigger stories. If you can make ice cream safe because it's so big to a six year old, you make drugs and alcohol safe to a 16 year old.

[B]

Exactly. That's exactly the power of these questions. And you know, if you're listening to this right now and you're a mom and you're like, oh my gosh, I never thought to ask these questions. Hey, it's not too late. You can start asking. And you know what? To that end, it's like, we can ask anybody these questions. I was listening to a radio show the other day and it was about relationships and it was about trying to cultivate more love in relationships. And I'm so sorry, I don't remember the researcher, but they were a mom and they were talking about how at one point they wanted to be closer to their daughter. And one of the strategies that they began to use was just asking more questions about their daughter's life. And in talking about this, this researcher mentioned that on the whole, children tend to ask their parents fewer questions about their lives. Going back to that power dynamic and like, the different roles that we have with each other, children tend to expect. And of course there are exceptions that like, mom is there to take care of me, so, like, I don't really need to ask her about her day in her life. She just like, is there to like, take care of me and ask me about my day in my life. But as you get older, one of the things that you can do is ask your mom questions like, ask her about her life. Ask her what she's up to, what she cares about, what the best thing or worst thing was that happened to her today. Right. So it can really go both ways. And yeah, just thinking again about how much emphasis there is on like, moms showing up for their daughters. But as daughters get older, we come into adulthood. We can also ask our moms about themselves. Remember, they're people too. They're not just our moms. So on this mother's day. If you're in a relationship with your mom, try asking her some questions about herself, Ask her about a time in her life maybe that you don't know anything about, and be genuinely curious.

[D]

And moms be willing to share. You should be sharing your story. There are some moms who think they shouldn't tell their daughter, but be willing to share, let her know who you were and who you are today.

[C]

Why don't moms want to share?

[D]

Some of them really keep that mother daughter line very tight and so they struggle to want to tell their daughters who they were when they were 18 or like just the different stories because they want to hold the line that they're mom. And I think they're holding back a deeper connection. Like in the question the lady asked in the Reddit thing that how do you build a deeper connection? That's not so surface level and part of that is storytelling. But I don't know exactly why all of them hold back or the ones that do hold back, but it's really just like on mom, I can't tell her all these things. She's like 27 now. You can, I promise you can.

[B]

I think it's really vulnerable, you know what I mean? Like, it's so strange because obviously these relationships are so intimate in certain ways. Again, the fact that not all moms daughters are children that they carried in their bodies, right. That's not a universal experience. Some moms have daughters that they didn't birth. Some moms are not able to get pregnant. Some moms are trans women. Right. So being a mom can look all different ways. And we've talked a lot today kind of defaulting to like, CIS women birthing children, but there's a lot of different ways for that to happen. Even so it's such an intimate relationship, and it's odd that we can be so intimate in some ways. And then when it comes to, like getting vulnerable and asking questions or sharing these details of our lives, that it can feel like a little too vulnerable. And we're not trying to be prescriptive here and saying, like, this is the way to have a relationship, moms and daughters, Right? Of course, you might have a scenario that you're like, actually, that wouldn't be great for me. Totally. Like, trust yourself, right? And again, if you want to work with a therapist directly and not just hear a therapist talk about this on a podcast, but get that more nuanced perspective, then, yeah, go work with a therapist and trust yourself to take what we're sharing here, take what Works and leave what doesn't. Right. But, yeah, I think in general, we could maybe get a little bit more honest with our moms. And in those mom and daughter relationships,

[C]

in your experience, how important is that conversation of you hurt me? And that can go on either side, because obviously you talk about.

[B]

You start with the break where you really remember.

[C]

But does that need to happen kind of like drudging up the past? Or you're like, we're not here to find out the truth. We're just here to move forward. How important is that conversation, if at all? Yeah.

[D]

So that's going to depend on where they are when I meet them, because some are still very estranged. And so that conversation may not be so important because there may be a lot of time that has passed between them, so we really don't have to go backwards. I can start exactly where they are. They're here to repair. They both made that decision. Let's just start. Repair. But sometimes they meet me in the middle of it, and they're still kind of arguing. We get on a consult call, and they're still kind of going, and I have to stop them. And we get in the first session, and they're still upset with each other. And so that would be very important because it's fresh, it's still on their minds, and it's still hurting in that moment. So I do want to give them that chance to talk it out, because I get so much information by just letting them kind of go at it, and I'm just listening. I can see a lot of the behaviors and the patterns that are playing out, and I need to know some of that because they may not be able to voice that to me, but it really just depends on where they are when I meet them. What's really more important is the pattern. I want to know what has been repeated over and over again that we need to break. But, yeah, sometimes they would be upset with me if I didn't let them get it out. It's like, well, we're not going to talk about what she did. I'm like, okay, let's talk about what she did.

[B]

Yeah, that's a great point.

[C]

Well, I think it's about that time.

[B]

All right, so, Brittany, on the show, we always like to get the inside scoop and hear what you're really thinking. When you've got clients in front of you that are dealing with these issues, you know, what are the things that you're thinking that, like, you wouldn't actually say out loud to your client? Okay.

[D]

So I'M gonna talk from mom and from daughter instead of picking about both for mom. It's like, if you could just apologize. Just say you're sorry. Just say those two words and mean it so we can move on. They hold that back a lot because I guess they just want to be right. So I'm just like, please, just apologize to your daughter so we can move on. Because you're making all of us stuck, and I'm getting a little bit frustrated here. I'd never say that. I'm gonna kind of guide you to that, and we're gonna get there.

[B]

I'd never say that in a session, but that's what she's thinking sometimes.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, now, what about the daughter? So if mom is over here and we're like, please just say sorry. For the love of God, just please say sorry so we can move on. What is it that you really want to say to daughter?

[D]

I want to tell her that you have your mom right here in front of you, and she's saying yes. She's showing up, she's agreeing. She possibly paid for all of these sessions, because I do have that happen. Can we just move forward? Or do you need us to stay in the past and continue hashing this out and keeping you guys here? Because I'm ready to move y' all forward, and some daughters just aren't. They want to talk about what happened, and I just want to look at them and, like, it's really not important right now. I have her in front of us. Your mom is here. Can we please just move forward? Because if we keep this up, we're going to lose her. But she's hurting. I would never say that she's hurting, and that is fair. I have to allow that to be a part of this. But, yeah, in my head.

[B]

And again, that's where, like, all of your training and your skill comes in. And that's such a great example of how therapists just are people, right? We are real people with real reactions. We're thinking the same things that maybe your friends are thinking sometimes. But we have this training. We have these licenses. We have all of this education that helps us make decisions in those moments to actually support the process and, like, each person's autonomy. Because, I mean, honestly, how useful is it really when your friends are like, you should just accept her apology or you should just. You know what I mean? It's like. Like, there's a reason why therapists don't do that, because that sort of advice usually doesn't work. But we're still thinking that sometimes we're human. Right?

[D]

Sometimes, you know, like, I would never say that to a client. It's sacred. And these, these things hurt. Your relationship with your mom is never supposed to break. That's supposed to be the one person that loves you no matter what. And so I have these two people in front of me and the relationship has broken. Like, I have to honor that. There, There's a lot of pain there. Even if I want to rush their process, if I did that, they end up back with somebody else saying, Britney sucked. That didn't work. She didn't know what she was doing. And it's because I rushed in through the process.

[B]

I love how you said that. That really hit me when you said, like, this is the one relationship that is not supposed to break. And just the reverence that you have for that, for the fact that some people do get there at times and just like, wow, the weightiness of that, just knowing how hard that is and that you have that, like, patience to be with folks in their process and really let them move at their own pace. I'm so glad that you came on here and talked with us about this topic just in time for Mother's Day to, yeah. Support people who are in all different types of relationships. Whether you're feeling really good in your relationship with your mom or you're having a hard time, hopefully you got some ideas here about things you can try, things you can do differently. Or maybe it just highlighted the fact that you're like, oh, actually maybe I need to be in therapy to work on this. That's also a great outcome of listening to this episode. And Brittany, if people want to get in touch with you, if they want to learn more about your work, how can they find you? What are you doing these days?

[D]

Yeah, so the podcast is called the Mother Daughter Relationship Show. Wherever you listen to podcast and I run my mouth and yap on threads. So if you want to find me on social media, that's going to be where I'm actually present.

[C]

Having listened to you just like minorly run your mouth just to hear what you really think, I would definitely subscribe because I would love to hear. To hear more about that.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And Brittany has an amazing show and she has like, episodes dedicated to, like, different stages of mother daughter relationships. Right. Different scenarios. So there's just really, really good information on that podcast. So we'll make sure that it's linked in the show notes and we'll also link to Britney's website if you want to check out her work or follow her on threads or. Yeah, just like she said, you're yapping, but it's really, it's really fun. Britney has some like great things to say on threads, so I definitely recommend following her.

[C]

Thank you Britney.

[D]

Thank you for having me.

[B]

We're so glad that you are here and thank you all for listening to the show. This is a special mid season drop. Christy and I are hard at work so if you're enjoying the show then please make sure to subscribe and follow and leave us a review that really helps us get more sponsors so that we can keep the show on the air and keep on producing great content. Thank you so much for listening to this episode.

[A]

We're so glad you're here and we

[B]

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[A]

You can also find us on socials, yttpodcasts for show updates and behind the scenes content. Our DMs are open and now you can join our new subscription Substack community

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

What your Therapist Thinks is hosted by me, Felicia Keller Boyle and me, Christy Plantinga. What your Therapist Thinks is produced by podvision.

[A]

See you next time.

[C]

It.