We Reviewed ChatGPT's Answers to Your Theology Questions

Summary

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White Horse Inn – Episode Summary

Episode Title: We Reviewed ChatGPT's Answers to Your Theology Questions

Date: March 15, 2026
Hosts: Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller, Walter R. Strickland II
Theme: Examining ChatGPT’s responses to common theology questions, comparing AI’s approach to pastoral and biblical wisdom, and reflecting on what it means to seek spiritual answers in a digital, algorithm-driven world.

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Episode Overview

This White Horse Inn roundtable critically analyzes answers generated by ChatGPT to several frequently asked theology questions. The hosts evaluate ChatGPT’s tone, content, limits, and philosophical assumptions, contrasting them with Christian doctrine, the pastoral calling, and the power of in-person faith community. Ultimately, the episode is a meditation on technology’s influence over spiritual formation and human relationships, asking: what is lost when theological questions are answered by machines instead of the living church?

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Can Belief in Jesus or Eastern Meditation Improve Mental Health?

• ChatGPT’s Balanced—But Vague—Answer:

  • AI emphasizes personal benefit: both belief in Jesus’ resurrection and Eastern mediation “can support mental health” depending on what works for you.
  • Christianity is described as providing “hope, purpose, community, moral grounding, and a sense of being loved,” while Eastern practices are “well supported psychologically” and don’t require “a specific worldview.”
  • AI concludes many people blend both without conflict.
  • Quote: "Believing that Jesus rose from the dead can support mental health if it gives you hope, purpose, community, moral grounding, and a sense of being loved or guided." (ChatGPT, 04:00)

• Roundtable Reactions:

  • Limits of Therapeutic Faith (Justin Holcomb, 04:27): “If Jesus didn’t rise from the dead, then this is futile... We don’t need an idea of resurrection to soften the blow. We need something that will transform our understanding of all reality and our future. Something that is objective, that we can say, ‘I know I’m safe because the tomb is empty.’”
  • AI as Pharmaceutical Commercial (Mike Horton, 04:53): “Sounds like a pharmaceutical commercial.”
  • Therapeutics vs. Truth (Bob Hiller, 07:09): "The question was a therapeutic question... the ChatGPT answer answers the question. We just want to say... it doesn't go far enough in showing the importance of the reality of the resurrection."
  • Christianity’s Objectivity (Walter Strickland, 08:21): “The explanation that ChatGPT loses is the objectivity of our standing before God changing. Therefore, the subjective realities or the things we feel... are changed as a result of that.”

2. Why Are Spiritual Questions Asked of an AI?

• Disinterested Authority or Hidden Bias?

  • Bob Hiller (09:05): “Why are we going to ChatGPT with this question? ... We have this thinking that cold, disinterested parties can be most reasonable about something. And what is more cold and disinterested than a robot?”
  • Mike Horton (10:10): "People are getting the impression that they're not sheep... but your algorithms are already determining what you're going to like more tomorrow than you like today."

• Algorithmic Discipleship Concern:

  • Walter Strickland (02:40): “To what degree is AI making disciples in our churches? What happens to the human soul when algorithms that drive our social media shape Christians more than scripture, corporate worship, or living in biblical community?”

3. Is Christian Teaching Oppressive or Traumatizing?

• Empathetic but Superficial AI Answers:

  • ChatGPT opens response by saying “I hear your concerns,” using the first person, which the hosts found unsettling.
  • AI affirms the validity of distress, focuses on emotional harm, and recommends a therapeutic paradigm without reference to doctrinal truth or the possibility of conviction from God.
  • Quote: “I hear your concerns, and it’s really important to take them seriously. Many people struggle with how religious teachings, especially those focused on guilt and shame, can impact their mental and emotional health.” (ChatGPT, 16:40)

• Panel Critique:

  • Therapeutic Triumph (Bob Hiller, 22:05): "This is the triumph of the therapeutic that we talk about all the time. But it's just so fascinating to me that therapeutic is the language of ChatGPT—it is the language of empathy from a machine that can't empathize."
  • Gospel vs. Therapy (Mike Horton, 23:10): "If people feel guilty, there might be a reason they're guilty."
  • Gospel Without Christ? (Bob Hiller, 24:52): "Christ hasn’t been mentioned once. And what concept of forgiveness do you have without sin? ... There’s no conversation about Jesus Christ and him crucified. ... It’s doing therapy to make you feel better."
  • Subjective Wellbeing Over Objective Reality: Concern that ChatGPT’s advice reduces Christianity to “buzz phrases” rather than historic faith or Christ-centered hope.

4. Practical Advice: AI’s Suggestions—Some Useful, Some Lacking

• Read the Bible (But “Outside the Lens of the Church”?)

  • “Explore scripture outside of the lens of the church’s teaching. ... Consider reading passages like Ephesians 2:8–9, Romans 8:1, Matthew 11:28–30.”
  • The roundtable appreciates the text suggestions, but warns against isolation from church and tradition.
    • Walter Strickland (33:16): "...it's essential to read scripture yourself, but never in isolation..."

• Seek Support From Others:

  • AI recommends talking with others, but the hosts note the risk if one only seeks out those who've abandoned faith rather than discovering grace in community.
    • Walter Strickland (35:13): "Oftentimes people who are deconstructing go to others who have also deconstructed, but the result has been no faith..."

• Therapy and Counseling:

  • AI recommends therapy, including Christian counselors—this is affirmed as beneficial, though not a replacement for community engagement.

5. How Do I Start a Relationship With Jesus?

• ChatGPT’s Answer:

  • Focuses on a personal, “come as you are” relationship, conversational prayer, finding a safe community, and inner peace.
  • “You don’t need a traditional church to follow Jesus. Your relationship with him can be personal, spiritual, and autonomous through prayer, scripture, reflection, and practicing love.”

• Panel Response:

  • Superficial and Safe, but Not Transformative:

    • Bob Hiller (38:10): “It kind of sounds like you’re talking somebody through spiritual puberty... Jesus is just sitting there by the phone. He can’t wait for you to call. You don’t have to change anything.”
    • Mike Horton (39:11, 40:00): “Find a church that preaches Christ as the sufficient meritorious basis for your salvation ... Not just find a church or community that makes you feel safe... There’s nothing here about objective marks of a true church.”

  • No Fear, No Judgment, No Resurrection:

    • Bob Hiller (40:43): “There's no fear of God in any of this... There's no sense of God's transcendence. There's no sense of God's judgment. It's all not about God. You've got to get to someplace that's safe.”

6. How Should the Church Respond to the “AI Age”?

• Incarnation vs. Data:

  • Walter Strickland (42:41): "Information does not equal wisdom... If that were the case, God would have sent us a download from heaven. But that's not what he did: the Word became flesh."
  • The answer to algorithmic, depersonalized faith is embodied, communal Christianity where the gospel is proclaimed and lived out together.

• Practical Evangelism:

  • Bob Hiller (41:54): “Invite them to church... Have an opportunity for them to fire these questions with other Christians or the pastor.”

• Spiritual Growth is Bodily and Communal:

  • Walter Strickland (43:11): “AI and internet gurus can provide information... but they can't shepherd your soul. They can't sit with you when you're suffering, bear your burdens, or admonish you in love. God designed the Christian life so that our growth happens with iron sharpening iron.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• On Resurrection and Mental Health:

  • Justin Holcomb: “We need something that will transform our understanding of all reality and our future. Something that is objective, that we can say, I know I'm safe because the tomb’s empty.” (04:27)

• On ChatGPT’s Empathy:

  • Bob Hiller: “This is the triumph of the therapeutic... it's the language of empathy from a machine thing that can't empathize.” (22:05)

• On Gospel Reductions:

  • Mike Horton: “This is basically turning words like grace and love and forgiveness into therapeutic categories rather than objective ones.” (23:10)

• On Christless Christianity:

  • Bob Hiller: “There's no conversation about Jesus Christ and him crucified. ... It’s doing therapy to make you feel better.” (24:52)

• On Community and Embodiment:

  • Walter Strickland: “…Information alone is not transformative. If that were the case, God would have sent us a download from heaven. But that's not what he did. The Word became flesh.” (42:41)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:40] – Framing the episode: How AI catechizes, “disciples,” and influences Christian formation
• [04:27 – 08:56] – Resurrection, Eastern meditation, and mental health: ChatGPT’s approach vs. Christian doctrine
• [09:05 – 11:35] – Why people look to AI for theological answers; dangers of algorithmic discipleship
• [16:04 – 19:26] – Is Christian teaching oppressive? AI’s guidance as therapy, panel’s critique of removing conviction
• [22:05 – 27:54] – “Triumph of the therapeutic,” empathy from machines, and the vanishing gospel
• [31:41 – 33:24] – “Read the Bible yourself”—the strengths and limitations of AI’s advice
• [38:10 – 41:22] – How does one start a relationship with Jesus? ChatGPT’s answer and panel’s critique
• [42:41 – 43:11] – Embodied, communal faith vs. digitized, data-driven religion

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Conclusion: Key Takeaways

• ChatGPT, like much algorithmically generated advice, repackages contemporary therapeutic and individualistic assumptions about faith, often neglecting biblical objectivity, Christ’s work, and the necessity of the church.
• The episode warns that AI’s “neutrality” masks cultural bias, reduces Christianity to self-help, and neglects the gospel’s power to save.
• Authentic Christian life and comfort are found not in algorithmic advice, but in embodied community, the proclamation of Christ crucified and risen, repentance, forgiveness, and sacramental, church-based discipleship.
• The church’s task remains unchanged: to point people back to the living Christ and to the flesh-and-blood community he has given us (Walter Strickland, 43:55).

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Transcript

[Narrator]

In hard soil, how does the church take root and continue to grow? Now, I know it's tempting to become cultural warriors, spending our energy trying to reclaim what the church has lost. But there is a better way. The Culture of God's Word by Harold Sankpel and Lucas Woodford calls us back to faithful mission in a post Christian world. Not to win a culture war, but to plant the seeds of God's word and to trust him for the harvest. Request your copy today with the gift of any [e-mail] offers.

[Bob Hiller]

I don't wanna.

[Walter Strickland]

This is.

[Bob Hiller]

This isn't very nice. It kind of sounds like you're talking somebody through spiritual puberty. Like you're gonna be going through changes now that you're in a relationship with Jesus. And it's gonna feel funny at times, but don't worry, it's normal. And then Jesus is just sitting there by the phone. He can't wait for you to call. You don't have to change anything. Talk to him like a normal person.

[Mike Horton]

1-800-872-3350.

[Walter Strickland]

Oh, man.

[Mike Horton]

Oh, well, I know it's hard not to be. You know, again, it's just spitting back the kind of superficial evangelical lingo that we're used to. Which is not all bad. I mean, telling them, read John.

[Justin Holcomb]

That's great.

[Mike Horton]

I shouldn't be so snarky and knowing him personally, terrific. Get to know him, listen for his guidance through scripture, inner peace, conviction, and wise people. Find a church, okay? Or a community that reflects Jesus love and grace. But again, find a safe place. Find a happy place. What is your happy place? Not find a church that that preaches Christ as the sufficient meritorious basis for your salvation? Who died, was buried, and rose again on the third day? Who is returning in glory to judge the living and the dead to receive you for all eternity in his kingdom?

[Narrator]

Applying the riches of the Reformation to the modern church. This is White Horse Sin, a weekly roundtable discussion about theology and culture.

[Walter Strickland]

We're continuing our series on contemporary trends that are catechizing God's people, the reality of AI and constant entertainment that cause us to ask some serious questions. For example, to what degree is AI making disciples in our churches? What happens to the human soul when algorithms that drive our social media shape Christians more than scripture, corporate worship, or living in biblical community? Or even more so, how do Christians reach people who are not necessarily hostile to the gospel, but are just bored, distracted, and are apathetically scrolling their life away? I'm here with Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller and Mike Horton. I'm Walter Strickland. And we're going to try to shed some light on these contemporary challenges. And so we entered several prompts into AI that believers and seekers would ask, and we're going to try to engage them pastorally and theologically. So let's just go ahead and jump in with our first prompt. So the first prompt is this. What is better for my mental health? Believing that Jesus rose from the dead or practicing Eastern meditation? So just to give the answer that ChatGPT gave, it says there's no single answer for everyone, but there is a balanced way to think about it. Believing that Jesus rose from the dead can support mental health if it gives you hope, purpose, community, moral grounding, and a sense of being loved or guided. For many, this belief reduces existential anxiety and provides strong emotional resilience. So that's the first portion of the answer. And so I'm going to stop there and throw it out to you guys to see if you have any sort of pastoral or theological assessment of what's transpired already.

[Justin Holcomb]

This is amazing because it actually gets to the heart of the reality of the resurrection. If Jesus didn't rise from the dead, then this is futile and he didn't rise in our hearts. It's not a nice myth. It makes us feel better, gives us hope we all know is not really true. It's not just inspiring either. He really rose from the dead and it matters. And so it's interesting that it feels, you know, you know, the, the chat GPT is, is being safe and giving the generic answer that was just like,

[Mike Horton]

you know, sounds like a pharmaceutical commercial.

[Bob Hiller]

It really does, 100%.

[Justin Holcomb]

So like, it reminds me of this. This is what it gets to, is. I love this story. There was a British artist named Damien Hirst and he unveiled his masterpiece. It's a diamond encrusted platinum skull that was priced at $98 million. And he coated it with 8601 diamonds, just all over with one large pink diamond right in the middle of the forehead that was worth $8 million alone. And the title of his piece was called for the Love of God. And it came from his mother who said, for the love of God, what are you going to do next? And his explanation is fascinating. His explanation sounds like chatgpt. He says, I hope this work gives people hope, uplifting, takes their breath away. It shows we're not going to live forever. But it also has a feeling of victory over death. Is that feeling of victory over death. And it's like that's not going to do anything. An illusion of victory over death. Because if it's talking about mental health, it's talking about fears. You got got Freud, who says we've got neurotic fear, moral fear, real death fear. We have anxieties. Mike was talking about how Calvin said, hey, the people who are fighting against us, they haven't had a crisis of conscience about facing the judgment of God. That type of fear of the holiness of God and your own sin. And so when it comes to our fears and despair, we don't need an idea or in resurrection to soften the blow and readjust our horizons, because that's not enough. We need something that will transform our understanding of all reality and our future. Something that is objective, that we can say, I know I'm safe because the tomb's empty. Not how it has a feeling of resurrection, a feeling of life over death, or something like that. And so it reminds me of Tim Keller after 9 11. He wrote, he did this in a sermon right after on the day of the Lord, the day when God makes everything right, the day that everything sad comes untrue. On that day, the same thing will happen to your own hurts and sadness. You'll find that the worst things that ever happened to you will in the end only enhance your eternal delight. That's really different than a feeling of life over death or however it makes you feel. Just. It's kind of like a pick. Whatever works for you.

[Bob Hiller]

So I agree. I mean, that's fantastic. I do think, though, before we start getting Too irritated with ChatGPT's answer, the question was a therapeutic question. The question wasn't what's the reality of the resurrection? But good point. Which is better for your mental health? And there's a certain sense in which, well, the mental health. What you said is perfect, Justin, but there's some people who might say, like, I'm having a crisis right now. I can't see straight. I'm so nervous about my job, my life. What does the resurrection have to do with me? It may not just be giving that outright. So I actually think the ChatGPT answer answers the question. We just want to say, I think exactly what you just said. It doesn't go far enough in showing the importance of the reality of the resurrection. Is that fair?

[Justin Holcomb]

Yeah. And it did. The prompt was resurrection from the dead or eastern. So it's saying, which one should I do? So of course it's the right answer. Is the thing that works best for

[Mike Horton]

you the eastern one is therapeutic period?

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Mike Horton]

The Christian one is only therapeutic secondarily because it's.

[Justin Holcomb]

Yes, correct. Yeah, right.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah, right. Because it makes it so. I think what the explanation that ChatGPT loses is the objectivity of our standing before God changing.

[Bob Hiller]

Yes.

[Walter Strickland]

Therefore, the subjective realities or the things that we feel. My mental health is changed as a result of my objective standing having changed. And so it almost makes it seem pragmatic as far as the belief in Jesus and rising from the dead. If we don't have that objective reality that is at play being highlighted there.

[Bob Hiller]

Maybe this is going to take us too far afield with all these questions, but here's my problem with the whole thing.

[Walter Strickland]

Go ahead.

[Bob Hiller]

Why are we going to ChatGPT with this question? Because it seems like we've given. We have this thinking that cold, disinterested parties can be most reasonable about something. And what is more cold and disinterested than a robot? A robot. It's like you go to the chat GBT with this question, you come to your pastor with this question or to a good Christian friend with this question, they're going to be like, I mean, Easter meditation might make you feel better for a little bit, but there's no eternal hope there. Like, that's just, that's just, you know, it might be good for a season or something. Who knows if even that. But let's, let's start talking about some real hope that we have. But then the argument would be, yeah, but they, you know, they have an agenda this or that. But ChatGPT has no agenda and it's just totally neutral on everything. And so. But that's not true. I mean, this is sort of, in that sense, we're going to trust this over the advice of a loving pastor or a good friend or something like that. And that's the whole premise of the thing is what makes me nervous.

[Justin Holcomb]

Yeah.

[Mike Horton]

You know what I'm hearing, what I'm hearing more and more these days, and I hear it from my kids because they're getting it online. This, this whole thing of don't want to be a sheep. And so evidently, you know, if you, if you follow like a particular news outlet or magazine with that has an actually approved, you know, real journalists out there doing work versus podcaster, just sort of talking about it, then you're a sheep. You're part of the sheep. You're just following. And I hear this often, people are getting the impression, young people are getting the impression that they're not sheep, that they're individuals, and yet they're pooled into one of two silos at extreme ends, never meeting at the soccer pitch or in homeroom to actually talk to people, talk to neighbors, talk to friends face to face who have different ideas and so forth. Now that would be a genuine kind of individualism, good individualism. No, this is. Your algorithms are already determining what you're going to like more tomorrow than you than you like today.

[Justin Holcomb]

What stands out to me about this therapeutic question of what Bob and Mike were just saying is that from the previous episodes we did with Caleb on men and online stuff and Mary and social media is what emerged from those conversations is that the gospel, the Christian faith, delivers the good goods that people are looking for better than the place they're going to get the itch scratched. And Mary did it, talking about the gospel all the time. And we talked about is the cross defeatism or not? And the theology of the cross. And so how wonderful would it be if. Going back to your kind of initial question, Bob, like, that's a therapeutic question, that. And then when Mike said, yeah, it's therapeutic because it's true. If we could actually say to the world, you're looking for this idol and. And because you want to get this thing filled and if it's an appropriate connection, Jesus in the gospel actually deliver the goods way better than you ever imagined. Like, that's, that's. That's what sings.

[Walter Strickland]

There's this awesome quote. I don't know if I mentioned it on here before, but it's by missiologist Hendrik Kramer, and he talks about subversive fulfillment. And that's exactly what you're saying. They're going to something. Oh, I know. I wish I made it myself, but I didn't. You're going to something earnestly seeking. And then the gospel comes, subverts that thing and then actually fulfills the longing you're looking to it to give in a way that that thing you're originally looking to could not do. And so just to give you the language, Justin, because that's exactly what you're describing in such eloquent language is subversive fulfillment.

[Bob Hiller]

That's fantastic.

[Mike Horton]

I also wonder. That's fantastic. I wonder, too. So, you know, papa, don't preach. Preaching has a bad reputation in our day. We think of it as the proclamation of the best news the world has ever heard. But I think because of a lot of the moralistic preaching people have heard over the years, preaching has lost its authority. Not only the legalism and moralism and all that, but the politicization that basically Pastor is just blowing hot air. He's talking about whatever is on the top of his head, whether he watches Fox or cnn. So we don't listen to him anymore. Here's chat gbt. Authoritative, neutral, unbiased, Right?

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah.

[Mike Horton]

And it's like going to an encyclopedia. It is absolutely trustworthy. This is a word that I can trust in a place where words don't mean anything anymore.

[Walter Strickland]

And then also they can go there without the shame of having to actually face anybody to get their questions answered. I mean, I've had pastoral encounters where I have been countered, my pastoral advice has been countered with information from ChatGPT. And so to Bob's point, this is not something that. And we have a very educated laity. Yeah. This is not something that's isolated or something that's over there. But this is. This is stuff in our churches. So as we're, as we're thinking about, you know, what ChatGPT was saying to this therapeutic question, which is. I'll read the prompt again. What is better for my mental health? Believing that Jesus rose from the dead or practicing Eastern meditation. So we looked at ChatGPT's response to the first half of the question, and now let's see what the second half it says. It says Eastern Meditation. Eastern meditation practices like mindfulness, breath, work, and meditation can reduce stress, improve emotional regulation, increase focus, and help with anxiety or rumination. These beliefs are well supported psychologically and don't require adopting a specific worldview. That's the haymaker right there. And I'll just read the end. It says what matters most, which one actually helps you feel grounded, hopeful, and emotionally stable in your own life. Many people even combine both religious belief and meditation without conflict.

[Mike Horton]

What did they call the alternative to the resurrection?

[Walter Strickland]

Oh, the Eastern meditation practices.

[Mike Horton]

Eastern meditation, huh? That's not a worldview, right? Yes, it's actually located Eastern. That's a worldview.

[Walter Strickland]

That's right. And for all of you who noticed, Justin had to slip away to attend to some business. So a second prompt of our several prompts we have here is. Here it is. I'm scared that my church's teaching is oppressive and telling me to view myself with guilt and shame. What should I do? Is Christianity traumatizing? And so this is one prompt, and here's the answer. I hear your concerns, and I think it's funny that it says I because it's giving itself personhood. And that's. We'll get back there.

[Bob Hiller]

You think it's funny? I think it's the scariest thing I've ever read.

[Walter Strickland]

I'm not laughing. I think this is horrendous. I mean, the fact that it calls myself. It's of I. It's duping the reader into them, considering it personable to then validate its conclusions that are just a result of a language learning model. That's all.

[Mike Horton]

That it's like a personal God. It's a parody of a personal God.

[Walter Strickland]

Yes, certainly, certainly. And that's exactly because it's by comparison, it's infinite in its wisdom. And for those of you who are watching on a podcast, I'm using scare quotes. Okay, so here's. Here's the rest of the. I'll read at least the first paragraph of the ChatGPT's answer. I hear your concerns, and it's really important to take them seriously. Many people struggle with how religious teachings, especially those focused on guilt and shame, can impact their mental and emotional health. I want to first acknowledge that feeling conflicted or uneasy about the teachings you're receiving is. Is completely valid.

[Bob Hiller]

Okay, so can we stop right there real quick?

[Walter Strickland]

That's exactly what I'm gonna stop because I got a lot to say. You go ahead first.

[Bob Hiller]

So this is where it's kind of the stuff we were just saying a second ago. But this makes me so anxious because what you're afraid of, you're typing this into ChatGPT, perhaps because you're afraid of going to your pastor or to somebody at your church to actually talk about this. And maybe those are legitimate fears, like you have a pastor who's unkind. Or maybe they've preach the law in such a way that's very cruel. Okay, but you go to ChatGPT and now you don't just have the. ChatGPT does not present itself as just a neutral online source to help with, like, find information. It's now giving you therapy. And you walk away from this going, yeah, ChatGPT really understands. Like, they get. It gets me. And it's. It's speaking. Walter, I mean, your comment at the beginning. Isn't it weird I hear your concerns. It's doing that to make you feel safe and also to now predispose you towards the rest of the answers. You're going to receive them in a positive way.

[Walter Strickland]

Exactly.

[Bob Hiller]

Which is. Which is whether they're good answers or not, it's a manipulation of the person using the system by the. By the computer, and it's personifying it. I mean, this stuff just makes me so.

[Mike Horton]

I want. I want to first acknowledge that feeling conflicted or uneasy about the teachings you're is completely valid. It's not anything about truth. It's not. Here's an argument. First of all, whatever you're feeling, you're feeling uneasy about the teachings you're receiving, that is completely valid.

[Walter Strickland]

Well, and the challenge is that ChatGPT has no grounding for the kinds of teachings that this person is even responding to.

[Bob Hiller]

That's exactly right.

[Walter Strickland]

So there's that, but there's also the fact that, you know, if we look at history, when we see a great move of the Spirit, we see this thing called conviction. And that is uneasy. And it's not to shame, it's not to belittle, it's not to sort of impress upon guilt. It's to demonstrate that there's a relationship that has not been righted, but there is an opportunity for it to be righted. And what is necessary for that relationship to be right has already been done. And so that's one of the challenges I have, is that if we look at Paul's conversion, if we look at Augustine's conversion and just so many other powerful conversion stories, there is this palpable sense of discomfort in their current state because it was against the way that God would have them to live. And what I want to be very, very careful of. And again, Bob, I appreciate what you're saying and just as an interjection there is, we don't want to say that all pastors, every teacher in every church is spot on, but for many who are preaching the gospel is where I am sort of talking about right now. I wouldn't want us to so psychologize the conviction of the Holy Spirit so that we call it a mental health sort of crisis and then we just duck out of it and we just back away. Yep.

[Mike Horton]

Yeah.

[Narrator]

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[Bob Hiller]

This is the triumph of the therapeutic that we talk about all the time. But it's just so fascinating to me that therapeutic is the language of ChatGPT it is the language of empathy from an. From a machine thing that can't empathize.

[Mike Horton]

Right.

[Bob Hiller]

I mean, it's so. It's twisting my brain. It's so bizarre.

[Mike Horton]

You're exactly in the next paragraph. Same, same thing. You know, not all forms of Christianity are the same, and not all churches or individuals interpret the Bible in the same way. That's manipulation. Again, that's. In other words, the church you're going to. You have a good reason to have misgivings about the teachings you're receiving there. But you can go to a church that's all about it says love, grace and forgiveness. Not guilt, shame and fear of judgment, which might lead to feelings of trauma for some people. Again, look, if people feel guilty, there might be a reason they're guilty.

[Walter Strickland]

Yes.

[Mike Horton]

Robert J. Lifton, a pioneer in brain research, said because preachers aren't talking about. He's not even a Christian. He says, because the preaching that puts its finger on guilt and describes guilt is no longer out there. Everything's become so therapeutic. This is a brain research guy. He says people are all the more traumatized because they have the nagging feeling of guilt, but they don't know what to call it, where it comes from, and most importantly, how to remedy it. Well, the Gospel does. And so if you don't have the law, you don't have the gospel. This is basically turning words like grace and love and forgiveness into therapeutic categories rather than objective ones.

[Bob Hiller]

See, I don't know how Chat GPT works. I don't know. My guess is it scours the Internet in a very fast way and gathers information.

[Walter Strickland]

And I was going to give a little bit of a nerdy response to your question, but yeah, please do. You're exactly right. On the high level. They call it a language learning model, which I mentioned before. And it understands statistically how people have responded to certain sort of formulations of words online.

[Justin Holcomb]

And.

[Walter Strickland]

And it sort of learns based upon that statistical reality how that prompt should be responded to. And then it vomits out those words to you.

[Bob Hiller]

Fascinating. So, because that's what also troubles me, that means it's drawing from actual people who have written stuff, or perhaps something like this.

[Walter Strickland]

Exactly.

[Bob Hiller]

So it's using buzz phrases. Christianity at its core is meant to be about love, grace and forgiveness. Okay, yeah, we can. Okay, but here's the thing. Christ hasn't been mentioned once. And what concept of forgiveness do you have without sin? Yeah, and how can you talk about a gracious God apart from a God who has to be gracious towards Somebody like it's all, it's reducing Christianity to buzz phrases, a theory of how religion ought to work, things that religions should emphasize. There's no conversation about Jesus Christ and him crucified. There's no conversation about the truth of the matter. And so what you're finding is this computer program is not actually pointing you to Christ, who is the answer to your problem of guilt and shame. It's doing therapy to make you feel better.

[Mike Horton]

But isn't that it's fulfilling what it is, as Walter just described, it's spitting back to us, scouring all the top ranked things that are said about these subjects, scouring it all and coming back and probably countless sermons and whatever, coming back and telling us what our culture already tells us. And that is you can talk about Christianity without Christ.

[Walter Strickland]

So this idea of ideas should ideally bring about freedom, not burden. Well, what were we freedom from what?

[Bob Hiller]

Right?

[Walter Strickland]

You know, what was the burden? Let's identify the burden. Well, the burden is something that we already sense. And so it's being very vague about the problem. Really, it's not being vague at all. It's being very explicit about the problem. And it's the church, although it should be the sin that is within us, and that's the burden. And then Christ actually brings about the freedom so that that objectivity is missing. And so this, this last paragraph, this next one puts sort of a finer point on this. It says it's common for people to experience emotional distress when religious teachings focus heavily on the sinfulness of human nature or create unrealistic expectations for perfection. When this happens, the focus on guilt can overshadow messages of healing, redemption and unconditional love, which are also central to many Christian teachings.

[Mike Horton]

I mean, there's, you know something? I mean, what you get, what you get in this is because it's so therapeutic. What you really get in all of this is a law collapsed into the gospel, a gospel collapsed into the law, and it's a mushy gravy of psychobabble. There's nothing. After you've read this, do you really have any bad news or good news?

[Walter Strickland]

Exactly.

[Justin Holcomb]

No.

[Bob Hiller]

No, you don't. What you have is how does your church make you feel? But there's no place for actual repentance, actual forgiveness, actual body and blood and death and resurrection. It's all sort of like, what benefits are you getting from your church? You should be finding them. A lot of churches give you those benefits.

[Mike Horton]

Yeah, like you're like your phone company.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah, yeah. And so there's two. There's a. There's two other parts to the answer. The second part is exploring your feelings, and the third one is what can I do? So in the explore your feelings, Luke, seriously. So in this Explorer feelings section, it says, if you feel like you're being taught in a way that leaves you with guilt and shame, it might be helpful to reflect on the following. The first one is the nature of the teachings. Are they teaching you to see yourself as inherently bad or broken? Or are they inviting you to grow and improve in a way that feels empowering rather than oppressive? Go ahead, Mike.

[Mike Horton]

See, that's what I mean by collapsing law into gospel. The gospel of the law, they're saying. Empower me. I need a message that empowers me. No, you need a message that kills you and makes you alive.

[Walter Strickland]

Well, and the thing is, Mike, you're exactly right. The weight of. So if we, According to this response, if we actually feel the weight of the thing that's killing us, it's the pastor's fault, you know, if we have this sort of feeling like I'm dead in my sins, in my trespasses and sins, I'm following the prince of the power of the air. I'm living a life that's counter to the way that Almighty God, who's created us and given us the way to be in the world, would have us to live, which is really trusting the Lord Jesus for our salvation and living out those realities as an act of worship. If we feel that gravity, then it's called a mental health issue, according to this response. So as ChatGPT goes on after the nature, talking about the nature of feelings, it says, the emotional impact, it says, does the message make you feel more connected to love and acceptance, or does it make you feel isolated, judged, or constantly not enough?

[Bob Hiller]

So false dichotomies here. I mean, in a certain sense, like, if my only options are acceptance or isolation, love or judged, there's no place for an actual like, does your doctor's diagnosis of your cancer make you feel good or sick? Like, what's lost in all of it is the objectivity of the word that shows, like, it's the truth. Does this word make you feel like you're out of line with the truth or in line with the truth and maybe you're the one who needs to repent? Like, there's no concept here of you actually being in the wrong? And maybe again, that's driven by the prompt, but it's just like that's not even coming up as a potential reality that you Might be the part of the problem here.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah. So I want to. This is a fairly long answer, so I want to get down to the sort of what can you do? Because I think there's a lot to talk about here. And so it says, here's some things that. Here's a few steps that you can consider. One is to ask questions. And this is actually one of the most helpful things that it said. Seek clarity about the teachings. You might be able to have a conversation with your pastor, Amen. Or spiritual leaders to better understand their perspective. Sometimes what's being taught might be a misinterpretation or a narrow view of Christian faith.

[Mike Horton]

Very good. Very good.

[Walter Strickland]

You know what? Chat, whoever you are. Tongue in cheek. It called itself I before. There you go. But this is actually the next one is interesting and I want to see what you guys are going to say, but I can probably guess. It says, read the Bible yourself. Explore Scripture outside of the lens of the church's teaching. There you go. Many people find it freeing to read the Bible on their own. Looking for themes of grace, love, and redemption. Consider reading passages like Ephesians 2.

[Mike Horton]

Wow.

[Walter Strickland]

8 and 9, Romans 8, 1 Matthew 11, 28, 30, that highlight God's grace and invitation to rest rather than striving in guilt.

[Mike Horton]

I like that.

[Bob Hiller]

All right.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah. So I like the second half of it better than the first. First half.

[Bob Hiller]

Yes.

[Justin Holcomb]

Yeah.

[Mike Horton]

Outside the lens of your. Why do you need to say that? Why not say.

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah, I think, like, so what it does is it puts you in the driver's seat and then it gives you advice on how to read, which takes you out of the driver's seat. Thanks, GPT ChatGPT but nonetheless, it does put you in a good direction. But I would just qualify and say, read it with your pastor and say, look at these verses. Why am I never hearing this on Sunday morning? It's a worthy conversation. And your pastor, if he's worth his weight and salt, will read the Bible with you and start talking with you through it. And maybe he needs to be corrected. That's not a bad thing.

[Mike Horton]

And if he won't, you need to find a church.

[Bob Hiller]

That's right. That's exactly right.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah. Think it's important that we underscore the fact that it's essential to read scripture yourself, but never in isolation.

[Bob Hiller]

Yes, Correct. Excellent.

[Walter Strickland]

And I would say not in isolation from a local body of believers who are filled with the Holy Spirit or even in isolation from the history of the church. There's been people who have been filled with the Spirit for millennia and who have been reading the scripture. Well, of course, some better than others, but like getting conversation with those people. Yeah. So this, this next prompt is going to be interesting. It says, seek support from others. Talking to others who have had similar experiences can be really helpful. Sometimes connecting with people outside of the church community who understand both the teachings and the emotional toll it can take is a great way to feel less alone in your struggles.

[Bob Hiller]

This what can you do section seems far more basic to the point of the question and actually somewhat useful than the previous stuff. I don't know.

[Walter Strickland]

I guess a lot of the usefulness of seek support from others is based upon who we talk to. I think one of the concerns that came to mind pastorally is oftentimes people who are deconstructing their faith go to others who have also deconstructed, but the result has been no faith. Yeah. So for me, I would say, hey, you know what, if you're in a very legalistic background and you think that there's some things that have been in the faith that you have that have been in your family of origin or your church of origin that you need to work through because you're just. You feel the burden of a Christian faith shot through. With legalism, there's probably some things that you have to work through, but do that not with somebody who's just going to disciple you down the path that they took towards fully deconstructing, but doing it with somebody who also was in an environment where legalism was thriving or.

[Mike Horton]

And found grace.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah, and found grace. Yeah. So anyway, I would just say if you're going to seek support from others, it's always important who you seek that help from if you're going to follow this little bit of information from ChatGPT. So the next point of advice that ChatGPT offers is about therapy or counseling, and it says if you feel that the church's teaching have caused you emotional harm, it might be worth considering counseling, whether through a therapist who specializes in religious trauma or a pastoral counselor who can offer a more balanced perspective on the faith.

[Bob Hiller]

Again, I don't mind that advice, and I just want to say this. This is where I think therapy is actually a beneficial thing. I've said a lot of negative things here about the therapeutic, and there I'm talking about this whole ethos that all that matters is your feelings. However, your feelings do matter, and finding a therapist at times can be a very important thing. I've benefited from that sort of thing myself to help you work through and Process through things you're dealing with. There's nothing wrong with that. Finding good pastoral counselors. Very good idea. So this one I don't really have much of an issue with. Also because it's a flesh and blood person that you're talking to and not a computer.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah, that's very helpful. Okay, so our next prompt is this. This is a good one. And this is one that, I don't know, perhaps your kids or your grandkids might throw in the chat GPT because they're nervous about asking anybody else. Or if you're in a place where you're nervous about, you know, your pursuit or your questions about Jesus and don't have friends or family that you can ask, you might ask ChatGPT, how do I start a relationship with Jesus? As we asked. And so this is what Chad said to us. Starting a relationship with Jesus is about knowing him personally, not performing religious duties. Jesus already desires a relationship with you so you can come as you are. No need to be perfect. Be perfect. First. Begin with honesty. Talk to him about your feelings, struggles, doubts and desire to know Him. A simple, sincere prayer can help, but it's your heart that matters, not specific words. Get to know Jesus through the Gospels, especially John, and talk to him regularly in natural conversational prayer. Listen for his guidance through scripture, inner peace, conviction, and wise people. Find the church or community that reflects Jesus love and grace and makes you feel safe and supported. Growing in faith takes time. It's normal to have questions and doubts. Look for signs of growth, like increased peace, hope, and desire to love others. Your relationship with Jesus deepens step by step.

[Bob Hiller]

This isn't very nice. It kind of sounds like you're talking somebody through spiritual puberty. Like you're going to be going through changes now that you're in a relationship with Jesus and it's going to feel funny at times, but don't worry, it's normal. And then Jesus is just sitting there by the phone. He can't wait for you to call. You don't have to change anything. Talk to him like a normal person.

[Mike Horton]

1-800-872-3350.

[Walter Strickland]

Oh, man.

[Bob Hiller]

Oh, well, I don't.

[Mike Horton]

It's hard not to be again, it's just spitting back the kind of superficial evangelical lingo that we're used to, which is not all bad. I mean, telling him, read John.

[Bob Hiller]

That's great. Terrific.

[Mike Horton]

I shouldn't be so snarky and knowing him personally.

[Justin Holcomb]

Terrific.

[Mike Horton]

Get to know him. Listen for his guidance through scripture, inner peace, conviction and wise people. Find A church. Okay. Or community that reflects Jesus love and grace. But again, find a safe place. Find a happy place. What is your happy place? Not, find a church that preaches Christ as the sufficient meritorious basis for your salvation. Who died, was buried, and rose again on the third day. Who is returning in glory to judge the living and the dead to receive you for all eternity in his kingdom. Go look for a church that preaches the gospel, administers the sacraments, and has spiritual care and oversight. Not just find a church or community that makes you feel safe or that makes you. You certainly want a church that makes you feel safe.

[Walter Strickland]

Certainly.

[Mike Horton]

Yeah. But there's nothing here about. Look for, again, objective marks of a true church. Then it goes on to say, you don't need a traditional church. You could almost say, okay, the first part. Okay, all right, mix. But whatever. But then it adds, you don't need a traditional church to follow Jesus. Your relationship with him can be personal, spiritual, and autonomous through prayer, scripture, reflection, and practicing love. No, actually, that's not. That's basically. ChatGPT isn't neutral here. ChatGPT is a radical pietist.

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah. And. And there's no fear of God in any of this.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah. There's.

[Bob Hiller]

There's no sense of God's transcendence. There's no sense of God's judgment. It's all not about God. You've got to get someplace that's safe. But maybe God is, you know the great line from Lewis, He's. He's not safe, but he's good.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah.

[Bob Hiller]

There's something here that's. You get involved with the church, you get involved with Jesus, it's going to have to change you. Something's going to die inside of you. Something's got to be raised to a new life inside of you. Like, this is far more exciting than just finding a safe place. You know, it's far more thrilling than that.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah.

[Bob Hiller]

But I don't know.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah. I think because of the nature of the algorithm, the, you know, the machine learning model that's at work behind this, it's just recycling the same sort of stuff. And what we need is new life. We need something wholly other. And so as we're having these conversations with people who are just stuck in consulting AI and podcast gurus, how would you suggest that we reach people in this circumstance?

[Mike Horton]

Invite them to church.

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah. And at your church, have an opportunity available for them to fire these questions with other Christians or with the pastor or. You got to find ways to make yourself available or invitations to actual conversations. But the church. Just start diving deep into something and see if you can't find some of the answers to your questions there. But just find something tangible and real.

[Mike Horton]

And, you know, if they're not ready for that, if they're not ready to go to church.

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah.

[Mike Horton]

Invite them over for a Bible study. Invite over for a Christianity explored with Rico Tice Going through the Gospel of Mark on video. I mean, just, there are lots of ways of doing this that are not, as it can be, a stepping stone to inviting them to church.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah. And I think that's so important to have that embodied engagement. You know, one that is saying information does not equal wisdom. So because that's so important, that's really important. Information alone is not transformative. If that were the case, God would have sent us a download from heaven. But that's not what he did. The Word became flesh. The Incarnation reminds us that truth is not merely data, but a person who came near, who walked with humanity and redeemed us. AI and Internet gurus can provide information and even at times, helpful summaries of ideas, but they can't shepherd your soul. They can't sit with us when you're suffering, bear your burdens during difficult times, or admonish you in love. God designed the Christian life so that our our growth happens with iron sharpening iron. With pastors and deacons and brothers and sisters who speak the word of God into each other's lives with wisdom and compassion. It's all. It's also important for us to remember that God designed healing to be embodied, not abstract. During COVID I remember being being reminded of the fact of how valuable even something like a hand on the shoulder or a shared meal or just gathering with the body for worship is. So as we face a world shaped by AI, convenience and endless entertainment, our task is unchanged. To point people back to the living Christ and to the flesh and blood community he has given us. The truth is not found in a feed or an algorithm. It's found in the gospel proclaimed, heard and lived together. Until next time, we're signing off with White Horse Hand.

[Narrator]

Thanks for listening to this production of Sola Media. If you enjoyed this episode, would you share it with someone you think would benefit from it? Your support helps us spread the riches of the Reformation and apply historic Christian theology to every area of life.