Laverne Cox

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Work in Progress with Sophia Bush

Guest: Laverne Cox

Episode Date: July 8, 2026
Topic: “Transcendent,” Identity, Activism, and the Cost of Being First

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Episode Overview

This episode features a compelling conversation between host Sophia Bush and trailblazing actress, producer, and activist Laverne Cox. The discussion centers on Laverne’s new memoir “Transcendent,” exploring her journey as a trans woman, artist, and advocate—especially amid heightened risks for trans visibility in 2026. The conversation is wide-ranging, delving into the emotional labor of writing personal stories, the interconnectedness of contemporary political backlashes, and the revolutionary potential of personal and collective freedom. Cox dissects the systemic forces behind anti-trans backlash, the architecture of fascist and patriarchal systems, and calls for organizing, empathy, and long-term strategies for justice.

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Key Discussion Points

Writing and Emotional Labor

• The Torture of Writing a Memoir

  • Laverne and Sophia bond over the grueling process of writing their first books. Both describe the process as emotionally raw and exhausting:

    • Laverne:

      “I just didn’t think there was a point to write it if I wasn’t gonna, like, go there… what have I learned? And from humble beginnings, from that abuse, that shame, that trauma, how am I an adult who is healthy and happy and loves myself? … torture feels like exactly the right word.” (06:32)

    • Sophia:

      “I feel like you coming this week in this moment of this dumpster fire of a fucking year with this book, you feel like my fairy godmother right now, just being like, girl, you can finish your book and you can say the things.” (05:50)

  • Both stress the difficulty of editing—deciding what to share and who to protect.

Reflections on Childhood and Identity

• A Conversation with the Child Self

  • Sophia asks if Laverne's 8- or 9-year-old self would recognize her current self:

    • Laverne:

      “I wonder if she’d be scared because she internalized so much transphobia… I wonder if she’d be in awe. But then I know she’d recognize me, recognize the spirit, because the spirit is the same… so much armor has been taken away so that spirit can flow more freely.” (08:23)

  • Sophia connects this idea to why society may react so strongly to trans people:

    “I believe… trans people are miracles. I think people are afraid of trans people because limits don’t exist in the same way. The stories humans have told themselves are not all that’s true.” (10:52)

The Political Moment: Backlash, Fascism, and Patriarchy

• Transcendence as Threat and Solution

  • Laverne connects the current anti-trans backlash to systemic threats posed to patriarchal and fascist structures:

    “A lot of the reason there’s the backlash against trans people specifically… is because we kind of are the solution. We’re the answer. If I can transcend your ideas of who you think I’m supposed to be… you as a CIS person can do it. And that is a threat to the patriarchal system. Particularly in this fascist Christian nationalist moment…” (11:55)

  • She gives the example of Florida laws making care for trans people practically inaccessible, and draws connections to broader rollbacks of rights:

    “That is not disconnected from racism, from sexism. It’s all connected.” (14:04)

• The “Loss” of Cultural Momentum

  • Laverne speaks candidly about feeling that trans people “lost the culture” about three years ago, amid legislative attacks and loss of rhetorical ground:

    “Three years ago, I realized that trans people lost the culture. And we were really like that. I was like, oh, shit… trying to figure out how to rhetorically combat this without having conversations or debates around my humanity.” (22:38)

  • She references Project 2025 and the systematic erasure of references to “transgender,” “gender identity,” and “abortion” from federal language.

• Weaponizing Bigotry

  • Laverne unpacks the right’s strategies: moving from bathroom bills, to sports bans, to gender-affirming care—using “what about the children” as a perennial weapon of dehumanization.

    • Example: Lawmakers banning a single trans girl from playing sports despite there being almost no trans athletes, while ignoring pressing issues like education and healthcare.

      “There was this devastating, beautiful, yet devastating video of [a trans girl] testifying before her state legislators… She was the one who organized the whole thing… and she was the only trans athlete that anyone knew of in the state. And I think the lawmakers even said how brave she was. And then they passed the ban and signed it into law, banning her…” (37:08)

  • She notes the manufactured “trans boogeyman” and how, even on the left, debates happen without trans voices or accurate information.

    "Everybody has an opinion… these very progressive leftists were talking about, 'Well, I think there is a question about, you know, trans healthcare for young people.' I’m like, why is there a question? And why is it your business?” (38:32)

Gender-Affirming Care Misinformation

• Debunking Myths

  • Sophia and Laverne detail that gender-affirming care for minors is largely social (names, clothing), and that puberty blockers are also used for cis kids. They point out the hypocrisy of society’s acceptance of cosmetic and hormone treatments for celebrities and politicians, but not for trans people.
    • Sophia:

      “Nobody complains when some rich girl’s dad gets her a set of implants for her high school graduation or a nose job when she turns 16.” (39:39)

    • Laverne:

      “But the thing is… when it’s non trans kids… it’s not our business… But when it comes to trans folks, it all of a sudden… it was crazy.” (39:55)

• Double Standards and Fetishization

  • Laverne points out the contradiction of conservative commentators using “gender-affirming care” themselves while denying it for trans people:

    “Joe Rogan’s out here talking about how he’s on T and it’s changed his life. And I’m like… you have gender affirming care.” (41:03)

    • She also discusses the fetishization of trans people, noting that trans porn was the most searched porn category in 2025, even as it was the most legislatively repressive year.

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Notable Quotes and Moments

• “Torture feels like exactly the right word.”
  —Laverne Cox on writing her memoir (06:32)

• “We kind of are the solution. We’re the answer. If I can … transcend your ideas of who you think I’m supposed to be… that is a threat to the patriarchal system.”
  —Laverne Cox (11:55)

• “Three years ago, I realized that trans people lost the culture.…trying to figure out how to rhetorically combat this without having conversations or debates around my humanity.”
  —Laverne Cox (22:38)

• “We don’t get it back. We keep moving forward because… there wasn’t an organized movement.…visibility was a moment, but there wasn’t… an organized structure.”
  —Laverne Cox, on reclaiming progress (33:01)

• “I think it is the, I do believe it is sort of the task of our lifetime, of our generation. Certainly.”
  —Sophia Bush (32:09)

• “Everybody has an opinion… and I just can’t… why is there a question? And why is it your business?”
  —Laverne Cox, on media narratives (38:32)

• “Joe Rogan’s out here talking about how he’s on T and it’s changed his life.…you have gender affirming care.”
  —Sophia Bush (41:06)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [06:30] Laverne on the emotional labor and “torture” of writing a memoir
• [08:23] Laverne considers how her child self would see her
• [11:55] Transcendence, freedom, and why anti-trans backlash is a patriarchal reaction
• [14:04] Connections between anti-trans laws and rollback of other rights (Florida example)
• [22:38] Laverne on “losing the culture” and the impact of Project 2025
• [32:09] Sophia names the generational responsibility to organize for justice
• [33:01] Laverne: “We don’t get it back. We keep moving forward…”
• [37:08] Trans girl banned from sports—legislative cruelty illustrated
• [38:32] Laverne exposes how media (even leftist) perpetuates misinformation about trans people
• [39:39] Sophia and Laverne debunk myths about gender-affirming care and hypocrisy in healthcare
• [41:06] Discussion of cultural double standards, fetishization, and trans visibility

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Overall Tone and Style

The mood is equal parts warm, deeply personal, fierce, and urgent. Both Sophia and Laverne use humor and candor as they navigate tough, high-stakes themes—demonstrating a balance of vulnerability and resolute activism. They do not shy away from naming power structures, calling out hypocrisy, and emphasizing the need for empathy, strategic coalition, and action.

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Conclusion

This episode is a master class in intersectional analysis and raw personal storytelling. Laverne Cox’s insights, bolstered by Sophia Bush’s incisive questioning and genuine admiration, offer listeners both a wake-up call and a balm. As Laverne asserts, the moment for organizing and dreaming big is now—even, and especially, in the face of regression. For anyone wondering how personal and political narratives intersect and how to resist with grace and clarity, this conversation is essential listening.

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Transcript

[Sophia]

This is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human

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[Sophia]

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[Advertisement Voice]

book,

[Sophia]

you feel like my fairy godmother right now, just being like, girl, you can finish your book and you can say the things. So thank you.

[Laverne Cox]

You said you're almost done. What Phase. You're done with the first draft?

[Sophia]

I'm done with the first draft. I'm now in that phase of editing. You know, I wondered how I would do it and then I realized I had far too much. And then I've had to cut some things that I love for length, which is hard. And then there's the full story. And then there's the world where people like us who don't become famous from writing, but are famous and then write a book can't exactly always tell the full story.

[Laverne Cox]

I tried to protect people by changing names and stuff, but I just didn't think there was a point to write it. If I wasn't gonna like go there, what's the point? Like a bull. So I was like, if I'm gonna do this to going to be raw. I, for me, I was like, I want to say what happened, but like not beyond that. What have I learned? And from humble beginnings, from that abuse, that shame, that trauma, how am I an adult who is healthy and happy and loves myself? Yeah. But torture feels like exactly the right word.

[Sophia]

I just didn't know.

[Laverne Cox]

No one told me that. No one ever told me that. Like I like no one. I've never heard an author like say it was torture.

[Sophia]

Uh huh.

[Laverne Cox]

It was like I thought I was gonna die.

[Sophia]

Yes. Oh, there have been weeks where I'm like, I don't think I slept last night. Why am I so stressed? Why is this so hard? Why is this so scary and nobody talks about it. I wonder when I think about the way this sort of pendulum of society swings and how if we could have gone back to, you know, 5, 10, wherever we want to pick years ago when we were on an upswing. I think back to the things you share in the book about childhood. You know, this little kid in Mobile, Alabama who probably felt more like a lot of us feel now, afraid. And I wonder, it sort of personalizes even more my first question I love to ask people, which is, would your eight or nine year old self see themselves in you today if they got to meet, like if you got to sit down with that little version of you, do you think that child would be so blown away by you living

[Laverne Cox]

your life wonders if she would. The eight or nine year version. I wonder if she'd be scared. I wonder if she'd be scared because there's like, there is the fantasy that like I definitely had as an 8, 9 year old that like this could be possible. Sure. But I Wonder if that 8, 9 year old would be ready to like Witness, like to understand that this is who I became. I wonder if she was so she was made to feel afraid of this and I think because she internalized so much transphobia. So I, part of me thinks, I'm like, I've never heard someone ask the question quite like that. They always say, what would you say to your 8 year old self? But if you met. And I'm thinking, and honestly I'm like, I wonder if she'd be frightened. I wonder if she'd be sort of in disbelief. But I also wonder if she'd be in awe. I mean just the visual part. But then I know she'd recognize me, like, recognize like the spirit, because the spirit is the same. That she would know very well and that. And then I think she would see that like so much has been, so much armor has been taken away so that that spirit can flow more freely and be more apparent in the world and less sort of armored up and protected.

[Sophia]

I love to think about it when I talk to people about it. I always think like, if I were in the totally emotionally raw sci fi movie of my dreams, myself today would walk onto like a playground, you know, in Manhattan and meet up with my 9 year old self and what would that be like? And I think it's actually so profound that you say that that little girl might be so blown away by the possibility and maybe a little afraid of it. It's because it's one of the things I've come to wonder about why there is so much of a reaction to trans folks. And I think about, I think about this a lot and I think I really related it. I'm gonna show the people at home because the book is called Transcendent and I know, you know, when this airs, it will have just been out for a few weeks. So if you don't have a copy yet, what are you doing? But when I looked at the title, I thought about it because transcendence as a concept is holy. It's very spiritual. The idea that you can transcend something is about transformation. Transformation is alchemy. Alchemy is magic. I believe for myself the experience of my life in our community and the blessings I have as a CIS person, as a queer CIS person having trans friends is that of all of us on earth, trans people are miracles. I think people are afraid of trans people because limits don't exist in the same way. The stories humans have told themselves, you know, are not all that's true.

[Laverne Cox]

Absolutely.

[Sophia]

And you're so in touch with the essence of humanity itself. Is a big concept. Freedom as a, as a permission slip, not an idea. And I think for people who are not free, that is frightening.

[Laverne Cox]

Absolutely. A lot of the reason that there's the backlash against trans people specifically, and first is because we kind of are the solution. We're the answer. Right? Like, if I can be assigned male at birth and told I'm male and I'm supposed to dress this way, act this way, live this way, and I, and I say, no, no, no, no, no, no, that's not true. I, I'm actually, I, I was, I was assigned male, but I, I've always been a girl and now I'm a woman. And I can make the choice to live in that truth. And after a lot of struggle, years of struggle that you read about in the book, I can get to a. And living in my truth and like, throw off those shackles that people who sort of put on me. I can, I can transcend your ideas of who you think I'm supposed to be. And if I can do it, you as a CIS person, Sophia, can do it. And a non queer, CIS woman or man can also do it. It doesn't have to look like being trans, but you don't have to subscribe to what people tell you that men and women should be and should do. And that is a threat to the patriarchal system. And particularly in this fascist Christian nationalist moment, it is a threat to the fascism that they're trying to sort of roll in. Patriarchy is essential to fascism. And so we see there's. I don't think this. It's. It's all connected for me. I don't think it's a mistake that when we have all this anti trans bigotry, there is the rolling back of reproductive rights. Right. All these, like, hurdles to get to getting reproductive care. Florida is such a great example of so much of this. But in Florida, for example, only doctors can administer gender affirming care when 80% of transgender Floridians receive their gender affirming care from nurse practitioners.

[Sophia]

Yes.

[Laverne Cox]

So effectively, 80% of trans people who live in Florida can't access gender affirming care. That's children and adults. So that's one of those sort of, you know, trap laws that they use to kind of deny us health care. And so that is not disconnected from racism, from sexism. It's all, it's all connected.

[Sophia]

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[Sophia]

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[Laverne Cox]

But also, how did this start with us? You know, I had a moment. I was, I was, I was in the car with one of my managers, Morgan, yesterday, and we were sort of talking about, you know, how people often aren't don't realize something is an issue until it affects them personally. And I was like, well, what about empathy? And then, then I had a moment of thinking about, you know, people who aren't educated or whatever, Then I was like, oh, wait, am I being empathetic in this moment? Am I having the empathy that, like, I'm suggesting other people should have? And so I'm constantly like, because it starts with me, and charity begins at home. So when I'm, like, doing what we should be doing out there, I'm like, am I doing it? How can I be more empathetic in my life? Am I having a moment of, like, lacking empathy for people who have been propagandized to. Who have. You were talking about my ex, who just. And so many people who actually, if they faced the reality, like, particularly white people. My ex is a white, straight, white, Republican cop. I think, like, if he were actually to face the reality of, like, this structural racism that exists in this country, how the police have been an enforcement of that structural racism since slave patrols and that that hasn't stopped. You know, I'm. One time he was like, how in 20. It was 2024. How in 2024, the police still racist institution. Right? And like, I was like, I don't know. And I was kind of like. I said it because I just need. We. We. We. Have you broken up? I think we had broken up, and we were at the 30. After I break up with someone, I do 30 days, no contact. And then so it's past the 30 days. And. And he was, like, trying to. Wanting to get back together. And I was just like, I can never be cool with the police thing. And, like, I just let it all. I hadn't said it just that way while we were dating. And I was like, I still. This is the truth to me. And he was like, how, how, how? And I was just like, stop and frisk is bad. And he was like, that's not true. And I was like, it is. You're a cop. You're a nurse. And he believed it.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Laverne Cox]

I was just like, how do you not know you're an actual police? You're like, you don't know that Eric Adams brought back Stop and Frisk. Like, you. Like, he really didn't know.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Laverne Cox]

And so I was like, I think

[Sophia]

that's one of the interesting things. When you sit at an intersection of more experience or more wisdom, you kind of experience these. These dually weighted scales. Right. Like, you shouldn't in 2026, have to teach anyone. Like, they can go out and learn, but if we don't open the people to learning or even investigating in order to be taught by teaching at all do we lose them? And it's.

[Laverne Cox]

People don't even have the frame. People don't even have the frame. Like, this is what is abundantly clear to me now is that people don't actually have. Because things have been so misframed. And that's what I've been struggling with over the past three years. Three years ago, I realized that trans people lost the culture. And we were really like that. I was like, oh, shit, we. So for the past, like three years, I've been like, trying to figure out how to rhetorically sort of combat this without having conversations or debates around my humanity. I didn't want to. I don't want to have a conversation on the oppressor's terms about my right to exist as myself. And so it's like, how do I have that conversation? And the world has kind of given me. We've gotten empirical data, right? Like, so we. So we have a project 2025. We have this current regime that it, like, is introduced, you know, thousands of executive orders that seek to erase trans people. Like on page four, Project 2025, race. These words from every piece of legislation or policy that exists in a federal level. Some of those words were transgender, gender identity, reproductive rights, abortion, et cetera. Right. And they've gone about doing a lot of that. Like, the head of the president of the Heritage foundation went on television. I said that I was in the View a few days ago and I said, you know, Project 2025, like 60%, 60% done. The president of the Heritage foundation was just literally on TV last week saying how, how excited he was that, you know, he said, he said, we gave 1,900 and something action items for the president to DO in Project 20 achieved about 1045 or so of them. Right? Yeah. So he was on tv. And so then I go on the View and say this and in the comment section, this. Well, someone reacted to the video and clipped it and didn't do the whole thing and said, It's 2026. We still talking about Friday 2025.

[Sophia]

Oh my God, girl.

[Laverne Cox]

I was like, girl, you're. And he was a gay Republican.

[Sophia]

Come on.

[Laverne Cox]

I'm like, you don't know that. Your, your man from the Heritage foundation was just on TV bragging about this in open last week, girl.

[Sophia]

Yeah, like out in the open air, fellas, come on. It's crazy to me.

[Laverne Cox]

But it's also by design.

[Sophia]

Yes.

[Laverne Cox]

So it's by design that people that they, that they don't want us educated. Right. Donald Trump said we I love the poorly educated Ronald Reagan back in the 80s that we, you know, when they didn't want to make. When all of a sudden, you know, public funding for universities like they limited that, limited Pell Grants and then allow universities just to raise the cost of going to school is because they don't. They want fewer people to be educated.

[Sophia]

Yes, they've demonized education.

[Laverne Cox]

And more college educated people vote Democrat than Republican, but fewer people are going to college.

[Sophia]

It's all by design.

[Laverne Cox]

We're in a really precarious situation right now. And what this moment presents us with, if we take the opportunity though, that a Harris administration probably wouldn't have, is the understanding, like looking at, like thinking about John Robertson, how this has been, you know, 45 year project for him and Heritage Foundation, 50 year project and a lot of their sort of wet dreams of deregulation, rolling back abortion, Chevron deference, all these. A lot of things in the Supreme Court that have happened to the Supreme Court. It's in the gutting of the administrative state, Right. Things that would regulate them. This is their wet dream come true. And they have been patient and have kept the same goals, but like switched the messaging up, right? Like now we say they'll say dei. Now it was critical race theory a few years ago, it was affirmative action before that, it was welfare queens before that. So they maybe changed the language, but the goals are still the same. And so then where's our mandate for freedom for the people? Where's our mandate to give power back to the people and in our structures and institutions with a long term project to undo this.

[Sophia]

Yes.

[Laverne Cox]

And there is really a need. When apartheid, when apartheid did it in South Africa. They wrote a new constitution.

[Sophia]

Yes. We'll be back in just a minute after a few words from our favorite sponsors. This is for those who experience allergic reactions from food, medicine, insects or other allergy triggers. About 60% of patients do not consistently carry their epinephrine needle injectors, which scares me. And that's why I wanted to tell you all about our new friends at Nephi. Nephi is the only needle free epinephrine nasal spray for those who weigh 33 pounds or more. It's used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis, which is a big deal. Nefi works as well as a needle injector and it's designed to be safe and easy to use at the first sign of symptoms. So in a high stress moment you can quickly treat an allergic reaction. Nefi is also small and discreet so it's easier to carry as part of your everyday routine. That way, you always have it with you if the unexpected happens. You can pay as little as $0 for at least four Nefi devices two packs through the copay Savings Program with commercial insurance if eligible. Patients should not pay more than $199 for NEFI. If you have medical conditions or take certain medicines, your condition may worsen, so tell your doctor about nasal, heart, thyroid or kidney issues, high blood pressure, Parkinson's, diabetes if you're pregnant or breastfeeding and all medications you take. Side effects include nasal discomfort, headache, runny nose, shakiness and throat irritation. These are not all side effects. Before you get a new epinephrine prescription or refill, ask a doctor about needle free Nephi today. Visit nephi.com that's N-F-F y.com or call 1-877-my-nephy to learn more. Choices Aren't they great? They it's why Plan B made over the counter emergency contraception legal more than 20 years ago because now you have a backup plan and a choice that's freedom to be. Plan B is the number one OBGYN recommended emergency contraception. It is not an abortion pill. Get it immediately at all major retailers in store or delivery. Use Plan B emergency contraception as directed within 72 hours after unprotected sex. The sooner you take it, the better it works.

[Advertisement Voice]

Xolair Omalizumab is proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens. Xolair 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people 1 year of age and older to reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods. While taking Xolair, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to Xolair. Xolair may cause a severe, life threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you have ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Xolair should not be used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions including anaphylaxis. Xolair is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effects such as cancer and fever, muscle aches and rash, parasitic infection or heart and circulation problems have been reported. Please see xolair.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about Xolair this is an advertisement for Xolair, paid for by Genentech and Novartis.

[Sophia]

If you want your guests to ask, wait, where is this from? Tea Forte is the perfect place to start. Known for their signature pyramid tea infusers topped with the iconic leaf, Tea Forte delivers premium blends served in luxury hotels and restaurants around the world. Beyond the tea itself, the beautifully designed packaging, curated gift sets and tea chests make every day feel elevated. From brunches to dinner parties, birthdays to thank you gifts, T forte turns everyday hosting and gifting into something effortlessly refined, memorable and genuinely special. Shop [e-mail] or on Amazon. That's part of the thing I think we need. There has been so much evil, you know, bigotry, hatred, racism, sexism, violence that has organized and funded itself to launch these long term plans and structures. And a lot of us over here who just want to love our neighbors are like la la la. Like we gotta organize and make plans in the way we have to be as ruthless for good as they are for harm. And I think it is the, I do believe it is sort of the task of our lifetime, of our generation. Certainly I'm curious, like, cause look, you and I are the same. Like we will get a big system this year this happened, this year this happened. If you don't know about that, like these are my fav conversations and I want to make sure I give you your flowers in this hour and make sure that people get to hear certain things from you. And you said something that I'm really curious about because you said you feel like three years ago trans folks lost the culture. And in your book, there is so much beauty in the dogged pursuit, in the relentlessness to be an artist. Even when you didn't see artists like you in the world and culture made, especially the way so much of it starts in the trans community, in the black community, in the gay community. How do you think about that as an artist? What feels different than when it was finally your time and how do you feel like we get it back?

[Laverne Cox]

We don't get it back. We keep moving forward because it was never, it wasn't, you know, because visibility, again, it was a moment of visibility, but there wasn't, we didn't. There wasn't an organized movement. Well, we, there was progress being made because a lot of the reaction to, you know, when we think about The North Carolina HB2 bill, the bathroom bill from 2016, that was a response to a city, a city in North Carolina, that it passed, that it added trans people and gay and lesbian people to their human rights protections so that these are immutable characteristics that should be covered against, being discriminated against. And so that was starting to happen on a state level, that was starting to happen in different cities, that we were being covered under human rights protection and under civil rights protection. So it would become illegal to discriminate against us for being gay, trans, lgbtq. And so that was progress. And then now the rollback of that is what we're seeing with. They weren't able to do it with bathrooms because people were like, that's ridiculous. Initially they weren't. But they went to sports and that was. And they poll tested this. They were like, of all the trans issues, what, like, you know, pisses you off most. And because so many people don't think of trans women as women, they thought like trans people, trans women specifically in sports. And that was the Trojan horse that ushered in banning gender affirming care. And then so many people like, you know, gender affirming care for children. There's so much misinformation about that and so much misunderstanding about what it means to be trans. That. That is an old school, Anita Bryant, what about the children kind of argument that has been very successful at creating a permission structure to not only take away gender affirming care for young people, but also for adults. And then to usher in. Now we have that bathroom bands, right? So you have. So there's a dehumanization that happens from the rhetoric around trans women in sports and then trans children mutilating children, a man in girls sports, and it's not happening language, and it's dehumanizing language. When there's like, the reality, like most of the states I remember, I'll never. There's two things I'll. I think about when I think about trans girls in sports. There was the governor, Stephanie Rule, on msnbc. This is this iconic video, iconic to me anyway, where the governor of West Virginia had just signed a sports ban banning trans girls from sports. And Stephanie Rule was like, he was like, I, you know, I used to coach sports, and we don't want anybody, you know, taking advantage and having an undo, you know, you know, doing something that would be unfair. And he was like. And she was like, are there any examples in your state of somebody, you know, doing this? And he was like, well, I don't, I don't know, you know, do you know any trans athletes? And you say, well, not that I know of. And. And you would say, well, she was like, well, why are you passing this? Like you said this. If there's no evidence that you're aware of that you can cite of someone taking advantage and having it, you know, or you don't even know of any trans people in your state, why are you signing? Why. Why are you spending legislative time to pass this and signing it into law? Right. Especially when like, you know, education, health care, all the things. Right. But they can pass an anti trans bill. Like, honey, they'll do it. And then, so, and then there was. I think it was, was it. I always forget the state Fisher Wells is from. I'm thinking Kentucky. I may be wrong, but she. Oh, there's this devastating, beautiful, yet devastating video of her testifying before her state legislators and talking about how she. The field hockey team, how like they. In middle school, they. The girls field hockey team just did. Was nonexistent, but she wanted to play field hockey. So she went and got girls and organized and got the girls together to like form a field hockey team. And they start practicing and they were ready to play their first game. And right before the first game, she found out that she couldn't play because she's trans. And she was the one who like,

[Sophia]

organized, organized the whole thing.

[Laverne Cox]

And she was like, I just want to play, you know, and we are not great. Like, she was, it was a team. She's not about dominating or unfair. She just wanted to play with her friends. And she was the only trans athlete that anyone knew of in the state. And I think the lawmakers even said how, how brave she was. And then they passed the ban and signed it into law, banning her, this one girl from playing, from playing sports.

[Sophia]

One little girl in an entire state.

[Laverne Cox]

But that's not, that's not unusual. That's what it is. We, the NCAA, said of like the, what was it, 15, 510,000 athletes in

[Sophia]

the NCAA and only 10 were trans.

[Laverne Cox]

Thank you for that.

[Sophia]

10 of 510,000. It's like, what are we doing here? And I, and I think it's. It's crazy to realize that the right has learned the hard way. Like, well, everybody knows a woman, everybody knows a queer person. They've learned that in the sort of unknown space. So many of us know trans people, we don't know our trans. So many of us know people like me are lucky enough to know and openly love trans people in our lives. And what's crazy to me is it almost seems like they realized, oh, because the numbers are smaller and we can make these people seem unknown, we can

[Laverne Cox]

create a Whole fiction. We can create a trans boogeyman like this whole fiction. Let's make. We don't have trans people on, on to talk about trans people. We'll just like everybody. And this is leftist, right, people on the left feel emboldened to talk about trans issues without a trans person inside. And everybody has an opinion. Like everybody, you know, and I watch a lot of leftist media and like, and I just can't, you know, the, I won't name the show, but they were just like this, these very progressive leftists were talking about. Well, I think there is a question about, you know, trans healthcare for young people. I'm like, why is there a question? And why is it your business?

[Sophia]

Can I ask a question about that? Because here's what drives me crazy. People don't realize gender affirming care for kids is often letting them go to a therapist who affirms them and calling them whatever name they want.

[Laverne Cox]

Maybe growing out their hair, maybe cutting

[Sophia]

their hair, a haircut, a piece of clothing. Sometimes in their teens they go on puberty blockers, by the way, so. So do so many CIS kids for a variety of health reasons. It's nobody's business. What makes me crazy though is nobody talks about gender affirming care when Matt Gaetz is out there getting 40 vials of Botox stuck in his face. Or half the Republican electeds, by the way, and probably half the Democrats too, have all had hair plugs. Nobody complains when some rich girl's dad gets her a set of implants for her high school graduation or a nose job when she turns 16.

[Laverne Cox]

Those jobs at 16 or younger, I know it, but it's actually. But the thing is, when it's not, when it's non trans kids, when it's just, it's like not, it's actually not our business. It's a decision that the child makes with their parent and their doctor. But when it comes to trans folks, it all of a sudden, I mean, when you. The Scormetti case that was argued at the Supreme Court, that banned her from care, at least the decision was limited only in that particular state, I think was Tennessee. So it's not like federal. But they were arguing that this is new medicine that's experimental. And none, that none of that's actually true. It's a lie at the Supreme Court. Like it was crazy. And the, and they. And the argument was that this is not discrimination on the. Because of sex, because of gender discrimination, because both trans boys and trans girls can't get hormones or puberty blockers.

[Sophia]

Insane.

[Laverne Cox]

CIS girls and boys can. Can. If you have social puberty and you need puberty blockers. If you need for whatever reason, hormones and male hormones and you're assigned male or female hormone, you can get those. But if you're trans.

[Sophia]

Yep.

[Laverne Cox]

You can't. But that's not gender discrimination. Yeah.

[Sophia]

Joe Rogan's out here talking about how he's on T and it's changed his life. And I'm like, hey, Joe Rogan, you have gender affirming care.

[Laverne Cox]

And Joe Rogan. But it's also talking about. Talked about on his podcast how he loves trans porn, how he loves transform. He's had a few guys come on and talk about their addiction to trans.

[Sophia]

So he's okay to fetishize people and also take their health care but not let them have healthcare agency?

[Laverne Cox]

Absolutely. They're connected. Of course they're connected. And in the right. I believe in the right wing imagination when, when they were doing that don't say gay stuff in Florida. And like any mention of trans anything and school is. Is grooming because they. In the, in the Republican imagination, trans transness is only always sexual.

[Sophia]

Yes. And queerness too.

[Laverne Cox]

Because they're watching the trans porn. Because we're not watching it. I, I'm 54 years old. I know a lot of trans people. I don't know any trans women or men. I don't know any trans people who watch Transform. I know a lot of straight men, straight men, and I can't tell anybody who they are. Straight, whatever they identify as. Straight. Straight identify. Know a lot of them who watch. They're the ones who watch in trans porn. And it was the second most searched porn category of 2025.

[Sophia]

Yes.

[Laverne Cox]

As we. It was the most legislatively repressive year for trans people ever.

[Sophia]

Yes.

[Laverne Cox]

These things are connected.

[Sophia]

I am having such a good time talking to Laverne. I. I just. I can't let her go. This will be the end of part one of our episode and we will be back for a part two to get into all the specifics on the book and so much more. Choices. Aren't they great? It's why plan B made over the counter emergency contraception legal more than 20 years ago. Because now you have a backup plan and a choice. That's freedom to be. Plan B is the number one ob GYN recommended emergency contraception. It is not an abortion pill. Get it immediately at all major retailers in store or delivery. Use plan B emergency contraception as directed within 72 hours after unprotected sex. The sooner you take it, the better it works.

[Advertisement Voice]

Xolair Omalizumab is proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens. Xolair 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people 1 year of age and older. To reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods while taking Xolair, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to Xolair. Xolair may cause a severe, life threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you have ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Xolair should not be used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions including anaphylaxis. Xolair is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions including anaphylaxis while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effects such as cancer, fever, muscle aches and rash, parasitic infection or heart and circulation problems have been reported. Please see xolair.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about Xolair this is an advertisement for Xolair, paid for by Genentech and Novartis.

[Sophia]

There's something about the way that Tea Forte elevates even the simplest gathering that feels so intentional and memorable. T forte is known for their signature pyramid tea infusers topped with the iconic Leaf plus premium blends that are served in luxury hotels and restaurants around the world. But honestly, it's also the presentation that makes everything feel so elevated. Their tea chests, curated gift sets, and beautiful packaging make hosting feel effortlessly polished and gifting feel incredibly thoughtful. Whether you're putting together a summer brunch, heading to a dinner party, celebrating a birthday or bridal shower, or just looking for a meaningful thank you gift, T forte turns everyday moments into something a little more special. It's the kind of detail that guests notice right away and talk about long after they leave. T forte feels elegant, intentional and effortlessly refined. Shop [e-mail] or on Amazon. Okay, let's talk summer outfits. If you're constantly saying I have nothing to wear, Bome is about to become your new favorite place to shop. From trendy dresses and matching sets to elevated basics and statement pieces, Boem has everything you need for vacations, concerts, brunch, dates and everything in between. I stocked up on cute summer Bermudas and even a summer suit. I was so excited to change out a button up vest for a jacket. It's far too hot for that. Trust me. These are the pieces you'll feel great in. Shop boem online or in store and make this your best dressed summer yet. Shop [e-mail] that's b o h m e dot com.

[Laverne Cox]

This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.