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- [00:00]
Mandy Woodruff Santos
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:02]
Sophia
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- [01:48]
Adam Kinzinger
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Adam Kinzinger
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Adam Kinzinger
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Adam Kinzinger
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Adam Kinzinger
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Sophia
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- [06:04]
Adam Kinzinger
I'm good. What about you? It's good to see you.
- [06:06]
Sophia
I'm well, you know, it's. It's that kind of thing. We've talked about this before. Like, I'm so happy in my house, and then I look at the world, and I'm just like, come on, America, be better.
- [06:17]
Adam Kinzinger
I know. I know. It's funny because it's like whenever I talk to folks and you ask that question, like, how you doing? You don't know how to answer because you don't want to be like, I'm great. Because it's like, hey, somebody just got shot in Maine a few days ago. Are you really great? But it's like, I think we have to be good at being able to, like, hey, I'm personally happy. Because if we're not personally happy, it's kind of like letting the other side win anyway.
- [06:41]
Sophia
Yes.
- [06:42]
Mandy Woodruff Santos
Well.
- [06:42]
Sophia
And, you know, I'll never forget. God, it was a long time ago when President Obama was in office and a great nonprofit group I was working with that was working to protect kids around the world on this particular cause, we were really focused on what was happening in uganda with the LRA, and we brought 10,000 kids to Washington, and we did this huge march to the Washington Monument, and it was like. It was magical. And John Prendergast came and spoke, and he said, you know, you have to celebrate because we were doing this big day of protest and activism, and then we were throwing, like, a rager of a party because it was college kids. Like, you know, you got to give them something fun to do at the end of the day. And he said, this isn't fluff and this isn't frivolous. You work all day, you better rejoice. At night, you know, you march in defensive, people, you better make sure you're still dancing. And I've never forgotten that. Because if we lose the plot on how much fun we can have on a random Sunday with our kids or how great it is to see our friends, even if it's on a zoom for an hour, like, then. Then we've lost all the joy we're supposed to be fighting for in the first place.
- [07:56]
Adam Kinzinger
Yeah, yeah. It's like, what's the point then, otherwise? Right. If we're all just going to be miserable, then why try to make anything better? And, yeah, you know, it's interesting because I get people when Memorial Day comes along, people, you know, everybody's kind of conscious and like, happy Memorial. Oh, I can't say happy Memorial Day because it's like, no, you know, when people gave their life in this country, they gave their life with the expectation and hope that your life would be enjoyable. So, you know, recognize the sacrifice folks made. But then go have a barbecue, have a good time. You'll see sometimes the pro Russian trolls on, you know, social media that'll show a picture of people, you know, drinking in Ukraine or whatever, and they're like, well, it's not really a war going on. It's like, yeah, you've. You've gotta be able to celebrate life. Otherwise. Yeah, what are you doing? Right.
- [08:45]
Sophia
Yeah.
- [08:46]
Adam Kinzinger
Fighting for.
- [08:47]
Sophia
What's it all for? I'm really curious how it feels for you because, you know, when I, When I think about the last time we had you on the show, it was 2023, you know, we were coming to the end of the. Your term in Congress. You have been such a champion for the country, for democracy, for what's right, for telling the truth. I remember way back in the day when you and I first met in your office and we stayed in touch ever since. People were like, what do you mean you're friends with that Republican guy? I was like, that's. That's my homie. Like, he's great. And, you know, when I talk about what it means to get back to a non autocracy, to a sane democracy, I'm like, we need some sane. We need some sane Republicans. We need some sane people everywhere who are willing to actually debate ideas, to get down, drill down to better solutions, rather than just scream at each other from, you know, either side of the aisle to see who dunks more on Twitter. Like, if you could talk. Not to us, you know, in 2023, but even to yourself, like, as a veteran, you know, as. As a member of Congress, as a person who's taken on so many service roles, knowing what, you know, now as we're halfway through 2026, like, how would you talk to Adam in 2023?
- [10:12]
Adam Kinzinger
That's a tough one. I would say. Probably the first thing I would say to myself is don't lose hope. Like, because in 2023, I had no clue, none of us did, that Donald Trump would get reelected, that, you know, we'd have mass deportations, that we'd turn and hate each other just based on political. I mean, it was starting that. But I think the big thing is to not lose hope. When I got out of Congress, you know, after all the January 6th stuff and the committee, it took me a good year or two to come to grips with the emotional toll that really took on me. So I often say to people like, you know, when you're in combat, nobody has post traumatic stress in combat. All you're doing is like, you're focusing on. You've got your objective, you have to take, et cetera. It's after you come home, where that settles. And that's. That's what happened with me. And I think the struggle that I have had and I still continue to have is just this. You know, I had a 3am today, doom wake up. You know where I wake up at 3am and it's like, boom. Things are pounded around in your head. But it's that idea of, you know, look, I really believe the American story is going to reflect that. This was a low point, but we came back in a huge way. And that's what that maintaining hope is. Is like. Look, yeah, it feels like forever still in front of us that we have this president or this division's happening. But when you look in hindsight, you know, look at your life 10 years ago, it feels like it was yesterday. In hindsight, being able to write this story is what matters. And I tell this to Sophia, like friends that say, what can I do? How more can I fight? And I'm like, the best thing we can do is to not get discouraged and not give up. That's the best thing we can do because y' all know people that have kind of written off the country and moved on and that's what we can't have. But yeah, yeah. The other thing I'd say is the next three years are going to be tough. Adam. Stick it out.
- [12:20]
Sophia
Yeah. Well, I think what frightens me is damage at scale like this because, you know, people, look, people are busy. I don't say the following to sound like a judgmental. I really don't mean it that way. I just happen to be a person like you who pays attention to political systems and policy and how these things affect people. You know, at a state and a national level, it's. It's my passion. Not everybody has time for that. And also other people have other passions. But when I think about how long progress takes because you have to build. You know, I kind of liken it to building a house. Takes a long time to pour a foundation, set it trench for plumbing, get the framing up, get the insulation and get the roofing done, get the windows installed. It takes 10 minutes with a wrecking ball to take a house down. And I don't think everyone's quite caught up to the wrecking ball that this administration is taking to the whole country, to our health care, to our school systems, to the ways we protect and care about our preschoolers, to our veterans, to science like the brain drain, all the scientists who've left the country. People don't get what that's going to do to us yet. And it, that's the thing that frightens me and what gives me hope on the inverse is that all is not lost, not all the systems have been wrecked. I see courts saying no all the time. You know, he's, he's losing constantly on things. He tried not to pass the housing bill and it became law after 10 days. Anyway, it's like, all right, you petty little, like you want to throw a temper tantrum like a five year old. Well, the law's the law and the law is done. So there you go. And is it unfortunate that a president refused to sign a bill to help the American people no matter how much how they vote? Yes. Is it to be expected with this guy? Yeah, but like the courts are still working and yes, some of them are filled with his cronies that are breaking the law, but not all of them. And like that, that to me says people are really trying to hold the line. So as a former elected official, do you also find hope in the courts or are there other arenas that you think are doing the best job standing up to this right now?
- [14:49]
Adam Kinzinger
Yeah, I mean, look, the court side of things has been a bright spot now.
- [14:54]
Sophia
Yeah.
- [14:54]
Adam Kinzinger
That doesn't mean I agree with everything the Supreme Court's done, right? Well, no, but on these certain things the court has held, and these are, by the way, Trump appointees that are doing this. So that's a good thing. And I think frankly, without the courts having done what they've done, we'd be in a much worse situation. I think I liken this moment to, and particularly come the election in November, assuming that Democrats at least win the House. It's like a freight train right now. You put the brakes on a freight train and that would be this election in November. Now that's good. We put the brakes on. We can see what the future is, which is a stopped wrecking, you know, train plowing through stuff. But the train doesn't stop immediately. There's still going to be a few years in front of us of stuff being broken. And before I get to the optimism, the pessimism is, I worry what this does to our psyche. Like kids that are under the age. I say kids, but they're grown ups under the age of 20. They don't remember politics without Donald Trump in the mix. They don't remember. Yeah, politics with people that used to be able to disagree respectfully. And how do we get back to that after? And that's, I guess, a question for the future. But the thing I have hope in is, yes, the courts, yes, the no Kings rallies, yes, the people showing up in Maine to protest, you know, the murder of a may not have been American, but he was legally here. Yeah, that's the thing. Americans. Here's the thing. When you live in a real authoritarian country, you know, right now you and I have are called 180 degree vision. We can look out and we can see. We care about somebody being shot in Maine because it matters to us. We care about, you know, people having rights. All that matters. When you live in an authoritarian country, your vision goes to here, it shrinks and it becomes, is my family okay? Am I surviving? Do I have a job? And that's it. All the other extraneous stuff you don't care about because you can't control it and you want to stay out of the bad guy's way. That's not America right now. We are engaged. We care. We've not acquiesced to this idea that it's out of our control and who knows what he could try to do in November. But we have an election coming up and it looks like that election is going to be a check. So, yeah, I guess that's what gives me hope. And you know, but that's, I'm not going to sit here and say I'm overly hopeful because that would just be dishonest.
- [17:37]
Sophia
Well, it's hard to feel, it's hard for me to feel confident in the things I'm hopeful about when, for example, leading into the midterms, he fires the whole election commission and I'm like, so those of us who said he's probably going to try to steal or cancel the election, we weren't crazy. Just like we weren't crazy that he was going to overturn Roe. You know, it's a strange thing for the first time, because I'm not, you know, 19 or 20, I do remember and I, I think because my family immigrated here, you know, my mom's mom came to America on a boat. The, the Ellis island story is like canon in my family. My dad came here in the 70s and he didn't become a citizen until I was 13 years old.
- [18:26]
Adam Kinzinger
Wow.
- [18:27]
Sophia
So when people say to me, like, oh, do it the right way, I'm like, my dad's like a middle class white dude from Canada and it took him almost 20 years. Like, slow your roll, you know, and it drives me crazy. And I think about, you know, what it, what it means to believe in this country. And it is a surreal thing, as, you know, a woman in my early 40s that I do remember. So I know that young people are, they're the first generation where the American political system has taken rights away from us instead of continued to expand our rights, to expand our protections, to, to aim for us being the land of the free, the freest country on earth. Like, the fact that we now are in a battle between democracy and authoritarianism and our rights are being taken should be like the, you know, when, when smoke alarms go off, like in a whole hotel, that God awful sound, you know, with the screaming machines at the end of the hallway, like, that's how I'm like, that's how we should feel right now. And you realize that they've just, they've moved the Overton window so much in the last 10 years that people are kind of going about this like it's business as usual, and it's really not.
- [19:52]
Adam Kinzinger
I agree. And this is where. Because again, I mean, this is a crazy thing. It has been 10 years and it's
- [19:58]
Sophia
like years of this.
- [20:00]
Adam Kinzinger
Yeah, you, you. I just. Yeah, I mean, I was watching. I forget what movie it was. I was watching a movie and it was like filmed in 2016. And it just like somehow that, that 10 year gap, like, brought home, like, man, this guy anyway, and we've been like, programmed in this. And I think this is where, you know, my message to Democrats, which is, you know what? I have voted now for the last four years. My message to independence, my message to, you know, any of the few sane Republicans left, although I've struggled to see how they could be left. But okay. Is like, we need to return to the idea of. It's kind of overused, but like, first principles, like, we're a country, what are we actually a country for? So we may not be able to point back and say, hey, you remember when Reagan and Tip o' Neill used to have a beer? Because now that's a long time ago.
- [20:49]
Mandy Woodruff Santos
Yeah.
- [20:49]
Adam Kinzinger
But what we can say is, do we want to live in a country where everybody's angry, everybody hates each other, everybody's, you know, worried about somebody else enjoying their life and they're angry, or do we want to live in a country where we just try to make it as pleasant as we can for everybody. Listen, like, politics was invented because cavemen got tired of thunking each other on the head with big sticks. And they're like, you know something? This isn't going to work. And they decided, okay, let's create these ground rules that we can settle our differences, right, and figure out how to live together. All. All politics is. Is like, okay, how best do we all live together? And. And now you have a party that's in control. That's.
- [21:36]
Sophia
They're.
- [21:36]
Adam Kinzinger
They're angry about transgender having rights. Like, okay, how does that affect your life at all? They're worried or they're mad because, you know, gay people can get married. Really? How. How does that affect your life? They're happy because a woman with a atopical pregnancy, you know, can't have that taken care of. And I think. I guess I say all that to get to the point of. They have been programmed by Fox News and other places to just believe that if somebody else is happy that you don't, like, you shouldn't be happy, and you should try to change that at them. And I think if we can just return. And I. I think the younger generation is going to be good at this, but if we can return to, like, let's just try to make this as pleasant as we can for everybody. Yeah, that's how we go back to winning the fight again. I think.
- [22:26]
Sophia
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- [24:20]
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Xolair Omalizumab is proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens. Xolair 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people 1 year of age and older to reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods. While taking Xolair, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to Xolair. Xolair may cause a severe, life threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you have ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Xolair should not be used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. Xolair is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis, while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effects effects such as cancer, fever, muscle aches and rash, parasitic infection or heart and circulation problems have been reported. Please see xolair.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about Xolair. This is an advertisement for Xolair paid for by Genentech and Novartis.
- [25:30]
Sophia
We are in the middle of summer and my goodness, am I so happy that it's light earlier and later that we're getting outside more. I feel like there's just something about those extra hours of daylight that refreshes. Not just my morning or my evening, but my whole day, my whole summer season. You know, getting outside, going on hikes, visiting lakes. I found a fishing spot. It is heaven. And I think we all feel that, right? Because summer's all about renewing and refreshing. And sometimes that refresh doesn't have to mean, you know, a trip or an adventure. It can be as simple as upgrading your look. Maybe a new piece of clean beauty from our friends at Thrive Cosmetics. Every product they make is 100% vegan, cruelty free, and made with clean ingredients that work with your skin, not against it. And friends, when we use Thrive Cosmetics, we're helping others shine too. With over $150 million in product and cash donations to over 600 giving partners, every purchase fuels real impact. And I think that is beauty with purpose. One of my favorite summertime Thrive cosmetics is the Empower Matte Precision Lipstick crayon. It comes in 18 long lasting matte shades so I can go natural, bright or bold. And it always leaves lips looking luscious and fuller. Another one of my staples is their brilliant eye brightener. It's actually a waterproof eyeshadow highlighter stick that really keeps you looking refreshed even in the summer heat. Gives you a little glow. So to amplify your Everyday, go to thrivecosmetics.com progress for an exclusive offer of 20% off your first order. That's Thrive Cosmetics. C A U S E M E t I c s.com progress choices aren't they great? It's why Plan B made over the counter emergency contraception legal more than 20 years ago because now you have a backup plan and a choice. That's freedom to be. Plan B is the number one ob GYN recommended emergency contraception. It is not an abortion pill. Get it immediately. At all major retailers in store or delivery, use Plan B emergency contraception as directed within 72 hours after unprotected sex. The sooner you take it, the better it works. You just said something really illuminating. You, you said for the last four years you've been voting deb and you were a Republican congressional elected. So many people, it seems like because of the temperature of things are afraid to change their mind because then they think they've been owned or something.
- [28:31]
Adam Kinzinger
Yep.
- [28:31]
Sophia
You just said that so casually like, yep, I don't agree with what's going on. I changed my vote. Like that's how simple it should be. What do you consider yourself now? Are you kind of party agnostic and politically specific? You know what, how do you do that? How do you encourage other people to say like, yeah, if you don't like what you're seeing, change your mind.
- [28:57]
Adam Kinzinger
Yeah, I mean, I call. I still hold the title of former Republican because I think that gives me some credibility in the audience I'm trying to reach. And for 12 years I was an elected Republican. That's not something I run away from. But clearly I'll say this, that you know, I was Always a moderate Republican. The party. I didn't leave the party. It left me. Right. It became something that I don't recognize. You know, when you talk about conservatism, like conservatism to its actual roots is about less government intervention in your life. It's about a budget that's balanced as close as you can get to it. It's about a social safety net. And what this party has become is, how mean can you be? How angry can you be? And so for me, it became a matter of like, okay, look, Sophia, I may have told you this before, but this is a buddy of mine I wear on my wrist. His name's Andreas O', Keefe, and he was killed in Iraq in 2018. And, you know, I remember thinking, this is when I ran for Congress, so before he died, so in 2010, I just remember thinking, if I'm going to take votes, to send people to war, to train them, to give them the equipment to fight, to ask them to be willing to die for this country, literally the ultimate sacrifice.
- [30:21]
Mandy Woodruff Santos
Yeah.
- [30:22]
Adam Kinzinger
If I'm going to do that, I have to be willing to give up my career for the same cost for the country. Right. If I'm unwilling to take a vote, that's going to cost me my job. But I'm going to ask somebody to go give their life. That makes me completely unqualified. And unfortunately, 99% of the Republican Party is that way. And so that from my voting in Congress, transferred to can I really vote Republican ever again? And look, when. When everybody running as a Republican has to swear allegiance to a man over the Constitution and they can't think for themselves and think independently, honestly, I didn't have any other choice but to leave the Republican Party. And so I would encourage people. And here's the difficulty is we've made our political viewpoint kind of our tribe. It's our identity. And so when you change or you leave, you're not just changing how you vote. You're. You're changing your social circle. Right. And I think people fear more than they fear death. They fear getting kicked out of their tribe. I mean, totally, 9 out of 10 people would step in front of a train to save a child, I think. But I don't think nine out of 10 people would do the right thing if it meant they lose their friends, their family, and everything else. But I will tell you, on the other end of it, you can look at yourself in the mirror, you find new friends, and. And. And you just feel better about your. Yourself. It's.
- [32:02]
Sophia
It's Right, Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a really beautiful way to put it. You know, the, the fear of what it might cost is so often something we examine on a personal level. But if we started to examine it in a society, you know, in a, in a community, in a culture, frankly, in a matriarchy, you know, there's this idea, right? Like all the men's rights Looney Tunes are like, oh, you know, they want to, the feminists want to come and like, they just want to step on our necks now. And I'm like, you don't realize what you're giving away because you've had your boot on our necks all this time. Ruth Bader Ginsburg literally talked about it for her whole life, RIP and it's like, no, guys, in a matriarchy, you center the children, the men and the women input equally to support the kids and the next generation. And when you center children, the byproduct of that centering is that you also take better care of women. Yes, but men are healthier. And clearly this, like, patriarchy on Andrew Tate steroids isn't working for you guys. Like, it's not me, it's not my, my social group that's committing suicide at the highest rates in America. It's yours. This is not working for the men. And so for me, it's like, what I, what I kind of wish we could do is consider, okay, if, if our whole central tenet, if the most important thing to us is what is the world we're building for our children and our neighbor's children, like all the children are ours, as James Baldwin said, like, that then shifts our behavior. Then we're not burning the planet down for some 80 or 80 year old billionaire's profit. Then we're not speaking of conservation, watching the president sign away 3 million acres of public lands in sacred spaces like Bears Ears National Monument and other places
- [34:02]
Adam Kinzinger
that you will never get back. You'll never get them back.
- [34:04]
Sophia
And they're not his to give away, they're ours. And this is something that I actually think our parties need to get better at working together on is the economic messaging with future planning. Because to be clear, continuing to burn fossil fuels is stupid and it's an economic waste of money to try. Trump wants to like, turn on coal power plants again. That's a waste of money. And it's gonna, and it's gonna ruin the air for everyone. Not just Democrats, not just Republicans. You know, to cancel out green energy projects is lighting hundreds of millions of doll. The idea that we as citizens pay into America with our tax money. Let's talk to, let's talk to each other like we're investing in something. Because let me tell you what, if I invested in a company and they took my money and they gave it to somebody else and lit it on fire, I wouldn't keep investing.
- [35:02]
Adam Kinzinger
That's right.
- [35:03]
Sophia
Our tax dollars are supposed to protect our public lands. They're supposed to ensure we have lead free pipes to drink water out of in our homes. They're supposed to ensure that the air is clean. They're supposed to take care of us like we're sending, you know, we've spent $129 billion on a war with, with Iran that no one wanted instead of passing universal health care. And that's our money. It's not his money. It's not abstract. It is our money. And in that way, like the fact that we don't talk about the ROI of our taxes drives me nuts. And I think that's something that, you know, when I say sane Republicans, it's like we remember the McCain Obama era, right? Like they'd have a beer together. Not as old as Reagan and Tip o', Neill, but like that's the sort of thing we need to start to think about is what do you want your money to do for you? That's not socialism. That's literally a return on your investment. And that's what taxes are for.
- [36:05]
Adam Kinzinger
That's right. You know, and it's, it's, you had mentioned kids, obviously, which I think is extremely important. And, and I have a four and a half year old now. And, and I remember in making decisions on the January 6th stuff and what I was going to do, I just remember thinking like, so Kinzinger is a pretty not common last name. I can't really hide with that last name. And I'm like, yeah, someday he's gonna read in the history books and he will see his last name. And how could I ever tell his name's Christian? How could I ever talk to Christian about courage, about doing the right thing? You know, everything a parent wants to instill in their child. How can I do it? If he can open up the history book and then say, well, dad, let me talk about this time in 2021 with Donald Trump. And that is the same for all of us here, right? When it comes to things like fossil fuel and green energy. Do we need fossil fuel now? Yes. Do we want to get off of it? We should absolutely want to get off of it. In the renewables, into green and so what do you do? You can understand that, okay, there's still an energy need here, but let's invest in the future. And even if you don't buy all the actual, real science of. Of climate change, Even if you don't buy that, well, understand something. So if I'm speaking to my fellow, to a conservative Republican, that's like, climate change isn't real. Which is insane to believe that, but whatever. It's like China is kicking our backside.
- [37:34]
Sophia
Yes.
- [37:35]
Adam Kinzinger
On green energy futures. So outside of the moral implication of it, don't we want to be the world leader on whatever that next technology is?
- [37:46]
Sophia
It's a national security issue. You too.
- [37:49]
Adam Kinzinger
Yes, absolutely. And instead, there's this obsession among Trump and his acolytes with everything that was in. In 1950 should be in again. Right. Everything that was cool. And all the guys worked at the coal plants. Let's go back to that. All the women stayed home. Let's go back to that. I mean, it is. It is some memory of a country that never actually existed except on Leave it to Beaver.
- [38:18]
Sophia
Yeah. Or in, like, Greece. And you want to know what my theory is? It's actually kind of crazy. I don't know if you saw this, but it was. It was really funny. Somebody did a really cheeky compilation for pride of all the, like, clips of Trump talking about men in the most, like, I mean, overtly, like, objectifying. You know, talking about a golf player's penis and talking about, oh, he's so big and strong and all these things. And part of me was like, do you think he wants to go back to the 50s because he wishes he was like, a greaser? Because, like, those are the guys he had crushes on. Like, the muscles in the white T shirts with the rolled sleeves and the leather jackets up with the gel. Like, I. I genuinely go, like, oh, maybe somebody should just put him in an office and play Grease on repeat and leave him there so the rest of us can try to fix the country. You know, go have a crush. You don't have to be ashamed. It's 20, 26. You're allowed to be whatever you are, sir.
- [39:19]
Adam Kinzinger
Don't take your anger at yourself out on us and listen. That's what it is, though. That's what it is. It's what it is. I've got my own stories of Trump. It's interesting. The first time I met him in person, he had just gotten elected, and I didn't support him in 2016. He knew that he. He was angry at me. So, like, February of 2017, I'm invited to the White House to talk about, I think, Syria or something, because I was pretty hawkish on defense. And so I'm sitting down, and I expect that he's going to chew me out for not supporting him. And I'm like, okay, he's the president. He's going to do it. I walk into the Oval Office, and the first thing he says to me, there's probably a group of eight of us. And he goes, you're great on television. You look really good on television. And, well, thank you, Mr. President. I appreciate. No, you're really good on TV. And honest to God, I'm not making this up. 50% of his attention was focused on me and telling everybody how good I was on television. Now, there's a manipulation factor to that. But I also heard him talk about, you know, men that were injured in the war. You know, we were talking about Afghanistan and men that were injured in the war. And he kept talking, talking about how all these guys have beautiful faces, and their beautiful faces have been, you know, destroyed by a. It's. It's. There's something going on that's unique about Donald Trump. I'll. I'll leave it at that.
- [40:39]
Sophia
Well, maybe that's why Lindsey Graham decided he liked him so much after he was honest, that he was a traitor. Who knows?
- [40:45]
Adam Kinzinger
You know, Maybe so. Maybe so.
- [40:47]
Sophia
What a crazy moment it's been, right?
- [40:49]
Adam Kinzinger
My God, Listen, can you imagine? Lindsey Graham, I believe, believed that when Donald Trump was gone, you know, whenever that is, he believed he could. Right. His reputation after that. This is a reminder. Tomorrow is never guaranteed.
- [41:07]
Sophia
Never guaranteed.
- [41:08]
Adam Kinzinger
So make sure you can look in the mirror today, because there may not be a tomorrow to fix it.
- [41:12]
Sophia
I think about that a lot, and I think especially, you know, for those of us who understand how quickly things shift and who do pay attention to policy, how it affects people around the world. We all know how many people have been killed by the USAID cuts. You know, we know how cruel this administration is.
- [41:28]
Adam Kinzinger
Totally.
- [41:29]
Sophia
You couple that with having young kids and you go, I got to do everything I can do to try to fix this. Was that your goal? The idea that we can build a better tomorrow right now? Was that why you founded Country First? I. I really. I really want you to tell the people listening about what it is, how it works, how they can get involved. Because I am. I'm really amped about this.
- [41:53]
Adam Kinzinger
Yeah. I mean, look, right. Kind of right after January 6th, I started country first as this idea of, like, how do we Fix the Republican Party. And it became clear to me pretty quickly that that was not the mission. The mission was something much bigger. And I had. Because there were a lot of people joining that were left, right, center. And what they wanted was a mindset. It doesn't mean we lose our party affiliation, but a mindset. Mindset of, like, we can be Republicans or Democrats or something else, but the first thing we need to do is put the country over anything else. Because, you know, look, I mean, let's. Let's go back to Lindsey Graham example. The guy was a famous politician. After you and I talk about him on this episode, not many people are ever going to mention his name again. And I don't say that to be, you know, dark. But the reality is, when we go away, whatever legacy we think we're leaving only exists in the effects that we change in the people we change. Not in our name, not in our fame, not in anything else. And. And so that's what country first is. It's this, like, reminder to people to put the country before anything else to understand that the next generation, we have to leave the next generation generation, a country better off than we inherited. Like, every generation is done because we're in threat of being the first generation that doesn't do that. And so within that, we've got a whole bunch of different programs, including, you know, reminding the National Guard what their role is. I was a National Guardsman, you know, going after what I think are pretty bad. Republican members of Congress, in the Senate. And then there's other things where we're just facilitating conversation. It's been amazing. I've loved it. The website is country1st.com, and so, yeah, I'd encourage people to go take a look.
- [43:48]
Sophia
Yeah, I think it's really special. I think it's. It's exactly what we were talking about, kind of at the top of the hour, that we have to be in community with each other.
- [43:58]
Adam Kinzinger
That's right.
- [43:58]
Sophia
And I think, you know, the greatest way to kind of undo bias or prejudice is to let people get to know each other. You meet a person who falls under a classification you've been taught to fear, and you break bread with them, or you see pictures of their kids and you're like, you're pretty great.
- [44:19]
Adam Kinzinger
Yeah.
- [44:19]
Sophia
Why does the news want us to hate each other? And you realize it's. It's a ruse.
- [44:25]
Adam Kinzinger
And let's take, like, the example of when you and I met. I'm sitting in my office. You were meeting with somebody across the hall, came out, saw my name and said, I want to go meet him. And we, you know, we became fast friends. But one of the things you realize is like, everybody thinks they're the good guy, right? Even Al Qaeda thinks they're the good guy. And so the key is not just beating somebody down, but understanding where they come from and then showing them your compassion and your, your willingness to, to listen. But at the same time, I will also say people that are insurrectionists that stand against democracy. To me, those are people I don't find common ground with because they operate outside of this structure that we built for us to explore and enjoy our differences. And also real like I have enjoyed now that I'm basically a Democrat after the January 6th stuff I have made to so many friendships with people that are Democrats, hardcore Democrats, people I never thought I would have anything in common with. And you're like, we actually have a lot in common. It's pretty cool.
- [45:33]
Sophia
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- [47:23]
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- [48:33]
Sophia
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- [49:05]
Mandy Woodruff Santos
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- [50:04]
Sophia
I think you're right. I think, you know, when we talk for our friends at home, when we talk about building, you know, greater buckets of unity with people who might have different opinions so we can build a better future, we don't mean insurrectionists, we don't mean fascists. We don't mean people on the Epstein list. We mean the rest of us. You know, there has to be a line. And my hope is that we can do our jobs and the courts can do their jobs. I mean, so many of those people were tried and convicted based on evidence and the President pardoned them and I think, think it's a literal crime against the country. But here we are, so we've got to build forward. I'm really curious for you, you know, as you look at the landscape, like, would you ever run again?
- [50:53]
Adam Kinzinger
It's a great question.
- [50:56]
Sophia
You don't have to know yet.
- [50:57]
Adam Kinzinger
No, I'll give you the most honest answer, which is when, when you're in politics, you're always thinking about what the next thing thing is. You're always planning. You always have this thing. And I've learned you probably experienced this in your own career. Whatever you plan never really comes to fruition. And then you end up with these surprise opportunities. I. I have the fire in my. In my belly to get to run again. I really do. I also recognize that. Where do I fit in? You know, what, what is that? That. And so I guess the best answer is, yes, I would love to run again. Not for the House. It would be something different, you know, governor, senator, even president someday. But I am not trying to force that to happen because, sure, people can sniff out inauthenticity too, very, very quickly. I want to be authentic. I want to be real. I want to be true to myself. And wherever that fits, yes, I'm open to it. Until then, I'm going to continue to engage every day. I've got a substack I'd encourage people to look at. Just go to AdamKinsinger.com I'm going to engage and try to influence the conversation where I can.
- [52:08]
Sophia
I love that. Well, count me in. You know, I'm always. I'm always. Team AK Yeah. Last time you were on the show, we talked about your work in progress. You said yours was that you had to learn that you can't save the world alone. And that's like a big aha thing to accept. I'm curious, three years later, what feels like your work in progress now?
- [52:31]
Adam Kinzinger
I would say now my work in progress is it's going to be a little more personal. So how to, how to be a better father and a better husband while staying engaged in this. One of the things just being very real that I realized after I got out is the impact that the January 6th time frame, hat frame had with my wife that I didn't recognize. I mean, she talks about, you know, I'm in my office literally with my gun out, thinking that I may have to defend myself. On January 6th, she's at home thinking, realizing what it means to be the wife of a politician and worried that I'm going to be killed. And I, to my shame, I'll say it took me a few years to recognize that the impact of that that had on her was, was, was huge. And so my work in progress is more personal. It's just how to be a, a loving, understanding, good husband and father and also maybe translate that into my fight here. I can't save the world alone, that is true. But I can save the, the world with people like you.
- [53:45]
Sophia
I love that. Yeah. There's, there's something I think about when you hit the point in your life where you realize you bring your personal more closely into your professional way of being is actually a, like a healing in itself. You know, there's something that, that does for you.
- [54:05]
Adam Kinzinger
Yeah. And you start doing the. I think it hits in your 40s. At least it did for me. Where you start doing the backwards and forward math thing. You know, like when I was 18 years old. That was 30. That's, I hate to say it was for me 30 years ago. So. Yeah, like in 30 years I'll be 78. And you start to realize time goes by fast. I've got a limited amount of time. That's my most precious commodity. And. Yeah. And how do I, how do I invest that in the people. People I love.
- [54:39]
Sophia
Wow, that's beautiful. Thanks for coming on the show today. We always love to have you anytime.
- [54:44]
Adam Kinzinger
You bet. Thanks.
- [55:01]
Sophia
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- [55:34]
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- [56:43]
Mandy Woodruff Santos
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- [57:14]
Adam Kinzinger
I'm U.S. transportation Secretary Sean Duffy. We all get distracted when we drive, whether it's from our phones or kids in the backseat bickering. But how we handle these distractions can be a matter of life or death. Before you get on the road for your next road trip, please put your phones on silent and take a mental note to focus on driving.
- [57:41]
Sophia
Paid for by NHTSA this is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.