Dr. Jill Biden - part 1

Summary

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Work in Progress with Sophia Bush

Episode: Dr. Jill Biden – Part 1

Date: June 22, 2026
Host: Sophia Bush
Guest: Dr. Jill Biden

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Episode Overview

In this reflective and heartfelt episode, Sophia Bush sits down in Boston with Dr. Jill Biden to discuss her memoir View from the East Wing, her years in the White House, the nature of service and resilience, and the importance of empathy in modern American life. Their conversation is filled with personal anecdotes, insights into public service, and candid reflections on the challenges—and humanity—behind historic moments.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Childhood, Perspective, and the Roots of Service

• Sophia opens the discussion by asking Dr. Biden to imagine meeting her 10-year-old self and reflect on how much she's changed.
• Dr. Biden shares stories of an “idyllic” childhood, fun-loving parents, and the importance of reading and writing early on (07:40).
  • Quote: “I don’t think I’ve changed all that much. I still love to read and I love to write... I don’t think I changed that much.” – Dr. Jill Biden (08:19)

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2. Why Write a Memoir Now?

• Dr. Biden explains her motivation for writing View from the East Wing (09:04 – 10:13).

  • She wanted to share her own reflections and “set the record straight” amidst many books by others, some containing inaccuracies.
  • Quote: “It’s not a political book. It’s a book about, like you’re saying, an ordinary woman who was given the opportunity to live an extraordinary life. And it’s my reflections on that.” – Dr. Jill Biden (09:54)

• Sophia praises the memoir’s deeply human and non-political perspective.

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3. The East Wing's Significance and Loss

• Detailed memories of the East Wing and its destruction post-administration, highlighting the emotional impact and sense of loss for history and tradition (11:10 – 15:55).
  • Dr. Biden describes transforming the White House tour, making it interactive and meaningful—especially for children—by highlighting first ladies and military families.
  • The demolition of the East Wing felt like witnessing the death of a rare animal, a metaphor that resonated deeply.
  • Quote: “The innards of the East Wing were spread for everyone to see, like a rare and precious animal that had been hunted and killed.” – Sophia Bush recalling Dr. Biden’s passage (11:16)
  • Quote: “It was just so raw and cruel. And you think of all the historical memory... the first ladies who had their offices there, not even to mention the gardens... gone. Yeah, gone.” – Dr. Jill Biden (15:20)

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4. Respect, Kindness, and Public Discourse

• A candid discussion about the decline of respect in public life and the loss of civil disagreement (22:40 – 27:55).
  • Dr. Biden shares a story about being heckled at an airport (24:27):
    • Quote: “One woman... turned, whipped around, and she yells, ‘Make America great again. Go Trump.” (24:27)
  • She emphasizes how, in earlier decades, politicians respected one another despite their differences—a state lost in contemporary discourse.
  • Sophia and Dr. Biden discuss the need to “learn in public,” admit mistakes, and foster an environment where people can grow and repair.
  • Quote: “We have to get back to kindness and to listening to one another. And it might not be easy, but we have to do it. And I think it starts with us.” – Dr. Jill Biden (24:59)
  • Quote: “If you make a mistake and you admit it, you’re a loser, so you’re going to double down on hurting people. I’m like, what are we doing?” – Sophia Bush (27:23)

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5. Living in the "Fishbowl" of the White House

• Dr. Biden describes the lack of privacy in the White House, touching on Secret Service code names and how routines are announced aloud for security (29:04 – 31:52).
  • Quote: “You feel like you’re chipped. You know how we do with our animals. It was like, ‘Capri moving to elevator, Capri going down elevator, Capri walking to the hall.’ Everywhere you went, you know, they knew every single movement.” – Dr. Jill Biden (29:56)
• Teaching kept her grounded—a place for normalcy outside the “fishbowl.”
  • Quote: “Teaching really grounded me because I walked into that classroom and I felt that…I could breathe.” – Dr. Jill Biden (30:46)
  • Her students quickly accepted her as Dr. B, their English teacher, despite initial Secret Service disruptions.

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6. The Importance of Work and Independence

• Dr. Biden explains why she refused to give up teaching while serving as First Lady, despite doubts expressed by others—insisting on her agency and financial independence (38:43–40:13).
  • Quote: "I had worked too hard. I loved teaching, I loved my career... I wasn’t about to give it up. And... I was not about to say to Joe Biden, ‘Hey, would you give me money so I can buy pantyhose?’ I mean, no way. So I had to have my independence." – Dr. Jill Biden (39:30)
  • She instills this message of independence in her granddaughters and daughter.

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7. Teaching in Women’s Prisons: A New Mission

• Dr. Biden discusses her plans to teach GED classes for women nearing release from prison, inspired in part by her daughter's work (40:57–42:58).
  • She wants to help women gain an education, self-esteem, and the opportunity to start anew.
  • Quote: "If we could raise them up and give that to them, that would be like a dream come true. A dream come true." – Dr. Jill Biden (42:51)

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Notable Quotes

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 08:19 | Dr. Biden | "I don’t think I’ve changed all that much. I still love to read and I love to write." | | 09:54 | Dr. Biden | “It’s not a political book. It’s a book about, like you’re saying, an ordinary woman who was given the opportunity to live an extraordinary life.” | | 11:16 | Sophia (quoting Dr. Biden) | “…the innards of the East Wing were spread for everyone to see, like a rare and precious animal that had been hunted and killed.” | | 15:20 | Dr. Biden | “It was just so raw and cruel…not even to mention the gardens and the flowers and the trees and all the beauty…gone.” | | 24:59 | Dr. Biden | “We have to get back to kindness and to listening to one another. And it might not be easy, but we have to do it.” | | 27:23 | Sophia | “If you make a mistake and you admit it, you’re a loser, so you’re going to double down on hurting people. I’m like, what are we doing?” | | 29:56 | Dr. Biden | “You feel like you’re chipped. You know how we do with our animals…Everywhere you went, you know, they knew every single movement.” | | 39:30 | Dr. Biden | "I was not about to say to Joe Biden, ‘Hey, would you give me money so I can buy pantyhose?’ I mean, no way. So I had to have my independence." | | 42:51 | Dr. Biden | "If we could raise them up and give that to them, that would be like a dream come true." |

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Episode begins / Framing the conversation: 03:41 – 05:07
• Dr. Biden’s childhood and early years: 07:40 – 08:43
• On writing her memoir and setting the record straight: 09:04 – 10:13
• Reflections on the East Wing, history, and loss: 11:10 – 15:55
• Decline of public civility and need for kindness: 22:40 – 27:55
• Life in the White House fishbowl: 29:04 – 31:52
• Maintaining work and financial independence: 38:43–40:13
• Vision for education in women’s prisons: 40:57–42:58

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Memorable Moments

• Dr. Biden’s humor and candidness about her Philly upbringing and code names (Capri, Coaster, Cookie), as well as her quips about the indignity of needing to ask for pantyhose money (29:04, 39:30).
• Deep emotional resonance in the metaphor of the East Wing’s destruction (11:16).
• Insightful take on public learning and admitting mistakes: Sophia’s “kill the cringe” and “be emotional, be sweet” philosophy resonates with Dr. Biden’s approach to leadership (26:17–27:55).
• Dr. Biden’s practical, grounded approach to service and post-White House life—her excitement to teach in prisons and belief in raising others up (40:57–42:58).

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Tone and Style

The conversation is frank, warm, and disarmingly personal. Both Sophia and Dr. Biden display humor, vulnerability, and a deep sense of purpose. The tone vacillates between lighthearted stories and sober reflections, always grounded in empathy and a call for public kindness.

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For Next Episode

The episode ends with Sophia teasing Part 2 of the conversation with Dr. Jill Biden, promising more discussion on leadership, resilience, and the personal dimensions of public service.

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Transcript

[Sophia]

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[Sophia]

Hi, everyone. It's Sophia.

[Podcast Host / Sponsor Announcer]

Welcome to Work in Progress.

[Sophia]

At a time when Americans are grappling with urgent questions about democracy, leadership, and the future of the nation, perspective matters because history is not just shaped by elections or policies or headlines, but by people, by their character, their convictions, and the choices they make when the stakes are the highest. Very few people have witnessed those choices more closely than Dr. Jill Biden. As an educator, advocate, first lady, and one of the country's most respected public servants, Dr. B has spent decades championing the values of service, empathy, and civic engagement with while helping us navigate some of the most defining chapters of modern American life. In her new book, Dr. Biden takes readers beyond the public record and into the human stories behind history. View from the East Wing is a deeply personal look at the relationships, challenges, and moments that shaped her years in the White House. And a chance to reflect on leadership, resilience, and hope at a time when all three feel more essential than ever. I am so honored to say I am here in Boston tonight with Dr. Joel Biden.

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Come join us

[Dr. Jill Biden]

as I bring out Sophia, who's gonna join me in this conversation.

[Sophia]

Thank you. Come on, guys. Dr. B. Dr. B in Boston.

[Dr. Jill Biden]

I love this. Hi, everybody. They're the only ones who probably can understand my Philly accent because they have their accent of their own.

[Sophia]

I'm so thrilled to be here with all of you tonight. I'm still just so tickled that you asked me to come. And also during Pride, Happy pride, everyone. We're so happy

[Dr. Jill Biden]

you're.

[Sophia]

I have to say. And I'll tell you why we're here. I've been lucky enough to know the Bidens for quite some time. I signed on. I Think it was the end of 07 for the first election with you all and President Obama. It was a night a bunch of us health care advocates had been asked to come to something at the White House. And everybody was like, oh my God, we can't believe we're here. And Joe was talking to all of us, really, just like, what are you passionate about? What are you concerned about? And Barack leans in and goes, joe, we gotta go. And he just like, you know, we were all in our 20s and he was just giving us all his time and attention and there were no cameras in that room. And every time I've been around him, around you, you're. You're both just so genuinely caring about people.

[Dr. Jill Biden]

So thank you.

[Sophia]

I'm thrilled to be with you tonight.

[Dr. Jill Biden]

Thanks.

[Sophia]

Now, I got questions, I did homework, Nobody's surprised. I'm curious about something because obviously part of writing a memoir is looking back. And you have such an incredible life to look back at. All of your service, all of your teaching, but before that, before you were Dr. Biden or Mrs. Biden in class, to someone. I'm curious about you when you were somebody's student. When you think about your life, if you could walk out in front of this building and run into yourself at 10 years old, oh my gosh, do you think, do you think that little girl would see herself in you? Would you see yourself in her?

[Dr. Jill Biden]

Well, I can. I never would have predicted how my life took. I mean, quite honestly, you know, I grew up really in an idyllic, I mean, idyllic childhood I just had. My parents were really young, they were lots of fun. I mean, we would have tomato fights during the summer out on the lawn. You know, having four sisters was just so great. And I love school as you know, when I was in those early years, by high school, I was cutting class like the rest of everybody else.

[Sophia]

She's a good time, you guys.

[Dr. Jill Biden]

Yeah. So sneaking out to go eat a hoagie anyway, but my 10 year old self, I don't think I've changed all that much. I mean, I still love to read and I love to write and so I don't think I changed that much. No.

[Sophia]

That's pretty cool. Especially given the life.

[Dr. Jill Biden]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

I'm curious why this felt like the time. Because view from the east wing is. It's personal, it's historic. Did you just kind of feel ready to put it all out there, given the state of the world in 2026?

[Dr. Jill Biden]

You know, I was definitely ready to put it out. And when Joe got out of office. I just felt that so many people went out and wrote books, and I. And I. You know, I read parts of many of them, and I saw things that weren't true or had been, you know, misconstrued. And I thought, I want to write my own reflections of how I saw things. And that encompassed, like, the whole four years. It encompassed travel, state dinners, Camp David, teaching, all the things I did. And then I included the chapters that were the really hard ones to write about Joe getting out. But I want you to know, because many of you have not read the book. It's not a political book.

[Sophia]

It.

[Dr. Jill Biden]

It's a book about, like, you're saying, an ordinary woman who was given the opportunity to live an extraordinary life. And it's my reflections on that.

[Sophia]

I will say, as a reader, what was so touching to me about it is you. You didn't have to say, hey, I'm reminding you all that there's people in here, in this political world. But you offered us such a personal view into a space that I think a lot of us on the outside forget. Most days, there's people trying to do the best they can. And sometimes the only decisions you're given are a bad one and a worse one, and you still have to nurture the country through it. And I think we all need to remember that we're all just people trying to figure out how to do this. And it. I don't know, you did something really, really beautiful in it. And not everything you're reflecting on is beautiful. I mean, the First Lady's office in the East Wing is gorgeous.

[Dr. Jill Biden]

I know.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Dr. Jill Biden]

Remember that? The East Wing. And that. That was horrifying.

[Sophia]

And as a person who has the ultimate privilege of having been invited to the house on more than one occasion, like, you guys still. To walk up and you go through security and give them all your stuff, and then you go through the next one, and you give them all your stuff, and you're kind of like, am I gonna. Is this where I get in trouble? Is this where you're gonna tell me to go, can I still.

[Dr. Jill Biden]

I don't have a gun. Right. Well, I would never.

[Sophia]

But, like, you get up there, and then you walk this path, and there's these gates and little steps, and you walk up to the East Wing, and it's like, I can't believe I'm here. And to think it's gone. And to think about the work you and so many other First Ladies did in that office, it's crushing. And you reflected on it in a Way that hit me, you said to see it, the innards of the East Wing were spread for everyone to see, like a rare and precious animal that had been hunted and killed. You make it make sense for all of us who'd never had an office there. How do you think about it now as we're a year into the mayhem?

[Dr. Jill Biden]

Well, I don't know how else to say it. A year and a half. Year and a half. Not that anyone's counting. You know, I love the East Wing. And like you're saying, Sophia, I mean, you would. Families would come in or, you know, to the East Wing that was the entrance to the White House. And I would hear families or people come in, and they'd be so excited and just to be there and take pictures with their family, because it does have this mystique to it. And then as you walk down the hallway, one of the things that I did was put. Put artwork of military children so that people would know when they came to the White House how much we honored military families. Thank you. And thank you. Military families. And then as you continue down, they used to have. Well, when we came in, they had these pictures, and, you know, they would just. Kids would just sort of walk past the pictures. And I thought, you know, as a teacher, we learn with all of our senses. And so I changed it so that the pictures would revolve and you'd see, like, several things that happened during, like, the Carter administration or the, you know, Barack Obama's administration, all the way down the line. And then you'd walk a little bit further on, and there would be the older presidents, and the kids would start. Start to look at their phones, like, you know, like, so disinterested. Like, what's this? So I changed it to have all the first lady's pictures, the ones that you would know, like Laura Bush and Barbara Bush and Hillary Clinton. So then it meant something to kids. And then they went on the tour, and I made it interactive. I worked with the History Channel, and I made it so that you could go further into the rooms. You could hear FDR on the radio. You could feel the marble that was made up, the marble fireplace. So that kids became really involved with the tour and that they had a really good White House experience. Rather than just sort of walk by and look at all these paintings where they didn't know what they were looking at, I had to make it meaningful for them. So when I saw it come down and someone, you know, who will remain nameless at the White House was sending me pictures Like, Jill, look what is going on. And that wrecking ball, you know, that kept hitting the concrete and the building and, you know, it just, honest to God, it reminded me of like those elite hunters, you know, that go out and shoot these rare and precious animals and then gut them. Or like, if you've been like, I know you're not from Philly, like I am, but you know the butcher shops that hang those animals in the windows with their, you know, just hanging, everything's hanging. It was just so raw and cruel. And you think of all the historical memory of East Wing and all the first ladies who had their offices there, not even to mention the gardens and the flowers and the trees and all the beauty that was there for years and years and years. Gone. Yeah, gone.

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[Dr. Jill Biden]

No.

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[Sophia]

When you When I read that, I thought about he who Shan't be Named and his Sons who shan't be named. Who are those kinds of trophy hunters who love to put an awful photo like that on Instagram? What an insane thing. Where do we we're in the Upside Down. But it really, it made me think about that vision where Take more no matter what for your gain versus honoring history saying the White House is actually enough and incredible. You know, it seems like we're having a conversation about what kind of a future we want to pursue. Do we want to ground ourselves in philosophy and reverence and morality and respect, or is everything for sale?

[Dr. Jill Biden]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

And I think particularly, apparently, it is. Well, unfortunately, hopefully not forever. We have work to do for November. You have always been someone who acts out of such a place of realness. I was telling her backstage, I was like, my grandpa would die tonight. I'd be like, she's a broad.

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I like her.

[Sophia]

You know, like, you're a real person and a dedicated public servant, and you demand respect. You expect respect. As a teacher, you've taught respect. I'm curious how you think we get back to a nation that is respectful of each other.

[Dr. Jill Biden]

I was in the airport, you know, just minding my own business, just walking down the hall, and one woman. I mean, in the middle of everything, I mean, she turned, whipped around, and she yells, make America great again. Go Trump. And I was like. And I was just walking through the airport, and I thought, what's wrong with her?

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Dr. Jill Biden]

I can't imagine in my wildest dreams, like, saying that to somebody on the other, like, yelling some random, like, mean comment. We have to get back to kindness and to listening to one another. And it may not be easy, but we have to do it. And I think it starts with us. I mean, it's. It starts with us. And I think if we just keep. We don't give up. We don't give into it. If we just keep pushing forward and just saying, listen to us, hear us. We'll hear you, too. I mean, that's the way it used to be when Joe got into the Senate in 1972, that, you know, people from both sides of the aisle, and I'm old enough that I remember that, like, the Republicans and the Democrats, they would disagree all the time on the floor of the Senate. But then we'd go out to dinner together, and we'd go. You know, we'd travel together or whatever, but we respected one another's opinions, and so we've got to get back to it. What do you. What do you think is the pathway?

[Sophia]

I agree. You know, I. I think there's. We've lost something that I think is really essential, which is the willingness to learn in public. You know, everyone's so scared to get canceled or to say the wrong thing or to. Or to be cringe. I'm like, don't kill what makes you cringe. Kill the cringe. Like, be emotional.

[Dr. Jill Biden]

Be sweet.

[Podcast Host / Sponsor Announcer]

Say something cheesy.

[Sophia]

Tell people you love them. You know, I think that's part of it. And something that I have learned, actually, from your husband, that I have learned from watching President Obama and Michelle, even from President Clinton, they served through periods where not all the decisions were great. You're doing the best you can with the information you have. The fact that President Biden. The fact that President Clinton were like, oh, yeah, we were absolutely wrong on the crime bill, so we gotta do something better. Like, that's exactly what I want my president to say.

[Dr. Jill Biden]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

I looked at the data. I got pitched a solution. It was the wrong one. We're gonna fix it. Like, this idea that if you make a mistake and you admit it, you're a loser, so you're gonna double down on hurting people. I'm like, what are we doing? So I think that's part of it too. Like, we give our kids, whether they're our children or kids we teach. We give them space to learn and rip and repair, and we seem to have lost that in the public discourse. And I think we need it back.

[Dr. Jill Biden]

We definitely need it back. We definitely need it back.

[Sophia]

Yeah. I mean, maybe not for the lady who yelled at you in the airport. I'm glad you were nice to her. If I had been with you, I'd want to have a chance.

[Dr. Jill Biden]

But I thought it was, like, so out of.

[Sophia]

I mean, it's out of the blue.

[Dr. Jill Biden]

Like, why would. Like, who gives you permission? Like, we've somehow had field this permission to yell at people or scream at people or say nasty comments. I mean.

[Sophia]

I mean, the Internet.

[Dr. Jill Biden]

Yeah. And so maybe that was the beginning of it, or maybe it started more recently. I don't know.

[Sophia]

I don't know either. You know, it's interesting, though, because that experience you had in the airport is the byproduct of being a person whose life becomes a fishbowl. And you and many people who've lived in the White House talk about how the White House is kind of a fishbowl. How do you maintain a sense of a private life or normalcy when you live in. In that house? I mean, you can't open a window. You can't go for a walk.

[Dr. Jill Biden]

No, you can't.

[Sophia]

Like, what's your life? What's your life in there?

[Dr. Jill Biden]

You can go for a walk, and you are in a fishbowl in that, you know. Well, our. My code name is Capri because I'm Italian. I'm a good Italian girl. And then Jo's was Celtic, you know, Irish. So anyway, we got the letter C. Every presidential, every president gets a letter from the Alphabet, and they have to choose their own names. And, like, our kids were Coaster and Cookie, and you know, so they had that. They chose themselves. Oh, what would you have chosen with a C?

[Sophia]

Oh, I don't know. I have to think about it.

[Dr. Jill Biden]

All right, I'll give you a second.

[Sophia]

Probably Cannoli.

[Dr. Jill Biden]

Cannoli.

[Sophia]

You know, I'm a good Italian girl, too.

[Dr. Jill Biden]

Like, come on, that's cute.

[Sophia]

Carpaccio. I don't know.

[Dr. Jill Biden]

So anyway, anywhere you go, I mean, your movements are like. You feel like you're chipped. You know how we do with our animals. It was like Capri moving to elevator, Capri going down elevator, Capri walking to the hall. Everywhere you went, you know, you were. I mean, they knew every single movement. So I don't know, it was such a fishbowl. But I felt like, because I taught school that two days a week I would go to Northern Virginia Community College at 7, 20 in the morning. And I would be, you know, Capri going down to the cars. And Willow, it was so funny. You know, we have a cat, Willow. And so Willow, I'd open the door and Willow would go up the stairs, and she'd go up to housekeeping. And they called her Welita. And so it was so cute. They loved her. And so they would be waiting, opening the door for her to come upstairs. But teaching really grounded me because I walked into that classroom and I felt that. I don't know, I felt I could breathe. And, you know, the first day of school, well, I was never on the roster because they don't put your name on for security reasons. So the first day of classes, the students were always like, what's going on? Why do we have to put our book bags through this mag thing? And I said to them, they're not looking for your drugs, you know.

[Sophia]

And then they came, your joints.

[Dr. Jill Biden]

We don't care. And so the first day, they were like, oh, my God, look who my teacher is. By the second day, they were saying the F word. So, like, they totally accepted me as their English teacher. And I loved that. It was just very cool for me.

[Sophia]

Yeah, I get what you mean, though. It's a tether to your real life, not the projection of what anyone thinks of the White House. I also humble brag for her. You made history doing that. You were the first first lady who held a teaching position.

[Dr. Jill Biden]

Yeah.

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[Sophia]

Yes. Like, that's so cool.

[Dr. Jill Biden]

Thank you.

[Sophia]

Why did keeping the job feel like a non negotiable for you? Did you know it would be a tether or was it just something that you said, like, I'm not putting this on pause?

[Dr. Jill Biden]

No, I felt really strongly about it. And you know, I supported Joe in his career and he always supported me in my career. Although there were doubts. Like Jill really do you know, his staff would say, do you really think you can teach a second lady? I mean, as first lady? And I said, well, I'm going to do it, so you better figure it out. But I had, I had worked too hard. I loved teaching, I loved my career, and I raised three children. I went to graduate school, like forever. I got two masters and a doctorate from the University of Delaware at the age of 55. So I wasn't about to give it up. And I want to say another thing. At my age, when we went into the White House, you know, I was not about to say to Joe Biden, hey, would you give me money so I can buy pantyhose? I mean, no way. So I had to have my independence. And I'll tell you one thing I've really like pounded into my granddaughters and my own daughter is like, you must be financially independent.

[Sophia]

Yes, that's 100% yes. Because all this tradwife marketing is a ruse and we know it. I'm really curious about this because you've spoken about your plans to teach GED classes in women's prisons, which again, when we talk about what kind of future we want to build, I think like, oh, look, you want to solve problems on Earth instead of moving to Mars and building a fancy prison for yourself. Crazy, crazy that we should like, make the owners only planet with trees better. But what does that calling feel like for you? Was there something as your time as second lady or your time as first lady that you saw in the carceral system?

[Dr. Jill Biden]

You know, I did because my daughter works with women who have come out of prisons and she started a women's wellness center and she helps them get jobs or education, mental health. And so she took me to, to the women's prison and I spoke to them. I had a great conversation. And then I got a pen pal. And so we would write to each other all the time. And I know, it was so funny. Like when Anthony, you know, my chief of staff said, what? You have a prison pen pal? It's like, yes, Anthony, I do. So anyway, so I thought when I left Washington, I still have it in my blood. And if there are any teachers in this room, I'm sure there are many. You know what I mean? Right? It's the best job in the world. Every day is so interesting and you get so attached to your students. So when we left, I thought, what could I do? I don't want to, like, have a full schedule at a university. And I thought, how great would it be to go into the women's prison and get women who are just about to come out? I think that they call it level four. And I talked to my community college where I used to teach, and I said, can we come up with this program where I would go into the prisons and teach, help them with their GED skills or workforce development. And then this is the good part. One day they would come to the college and they would sit in a classroom so that they would build their self esteem, feel like the college students that they were, earn a degree, go on to get a job. I mean, that would be like, if we could raise them up and give that to them, that would be like a dream come true. A dream come true.

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[Sophia]

Stay tuned for part two of our conversation with Dr. Joe Biden.

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[Sophia]

This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.