Sarah Shahi - Part 1

Summary

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Work in Progress with Sophia Bush

Episode: Sarah Shahi - Part 1
Release Date: February 18, 2026
Podcast Network: iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

In this candid and lively conversation, Sophia Bush sits down with actress, author, and former NFL cheerleader Sarah Shahi to explore themes from Sarah’s new book, Life is Lifey. The episode touches on resilience, womanhood, courage, childhood trauma, sex, power, family, personal reinvention, and the often messy middle spaces where real growth happens. The two women share personal stories, hard-won wisdom, and sharp humor in discussing how to pursue joy and wholeness even in the face of pain and uncertainty.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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I. Sarah Shahi’s Whirlwind Life & Career ([03:22]–[07:45])

• Sophia introduces Sarah as a multi-hyphenate: author, actress, former NFL cheerleader, and boundary-pusher.
• Sarah shares her recent whirlwind schedule—filming in London, a national book tour, multiple cities—all while feeling “grateful, but exhausted.”
• The two reflect on the myth that loving your work means never being tired or finding it hard:
  • Sophia: "Everybody complains about their job, and just because other people think your job is fancy does not mean your job is not really hard." ([06:31])
  • Both women agree that it’s possible and healthy to feel gratitude and fatigue simultaneously.

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II. On Bravery, Childhood, and Trauma ([07:46]–[15:05])

• Sophia praises Sarah’s consistent boldness and courage, asking if she was always a brave child.
  • Sarah: "It’s something I’ve really had to learn... One of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard is when people say, ‘Don’t be afraid.’ Everyone’s fear factor is different." ([08:35])
• Sarah shares aspects of her upbringing:
  • Grew up with an abusive father (“He held a gun to my head.”)
  • Escaped with her mother to women’s shelters.
  • Her mother shielded her from chaos, making even scary times seem like “adventures,” instilling a "glass-half-full" mindset.
  • Courage became an active practice, especially as life became more complicated—with motherhood and relationships.
  • Sarah: “I’ve learned to have a relationship with my fear...I’m going to walk with you anyway.” ([09:25])

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III. Healing from Trauma & Defining Safety ([11:07]–[14:03])

• Sophia and Sarah discuss the redefining of “normalcy” after trauma.
  • Sophia talks about recalibrating what fear and joy mean after a traumatic childhood.
  • Sarah shares how her mother modeled a peaceful life post-divorce, but also how abandonment issues colored adult relationships, making her want to be “chosen.”
  • Sarah: “For me, it took me a long time to be able to...recognize or pinpoint when I’m acting from that little girl place who just wants to be chosen by her father, or when I’m being a confident woman.” ([13:12])

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IV. Relationships, Patterns, and Growth ([14:03]–[19:43])

• Discussion shifts to how early abandonment influenced Sarah’s romantic relationships and her tendency to people-please.
  • Sarah: “My dad was very in and out... as a child, you always associate, ‘I’m the reason he left,’ so if I can be good enough, he’ll stay.” ([15:05])
  • She describes how these neural patterns continued into adulthood, leading her to overstay in relationships.
• Sarah’s “follow your happy” philosophy:
  • “Trust the timing of your life. Just focus on what you do know. Focus on whatever it is that brings you joy...and little by little, the things you don’t know...will just kind of fall into your lap.” ([19:15])

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V. Shame, Timing, and Permission ([23:13]–[27:34])

• Sophia highlights how fame adds another layer of shame for women—“how dare you be unhappy?"
• They agree there is no shortcut to learning lessons besides genuinely living them.
  • Sophia: “There was no way for you to learn that until you learned it.” ([24:03])
• Societal expectations around marriage and happiness:
  • Sophia and Sarah bond over the criticism that seeking happiness is “too much,” and how some people are uncomfortable with others striving for joy.
  • Sarah: "When you have the courage to do what’s in your highest good...it trickles down to everyone else. It’s actually one of the most selfless things you can do—to be selfish in that sense." ([27:22])

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VI. Humor, Identity, and Resilience ([27:46]–[35:22])

• Sophia admires Sarah’s levity and humor in her writing.
  • Sarah: “I don’t consider myself funny. I consider myself real...I just know how to be really real.” ([28:47])
• Sarah’s upbringing as an Iranian-Spanish child in Texas, facing ridicule and feeling like an outsider.
  • Credited her hardworking, resourceful single mother with instilling grit and drive.
  • Sarah: “Our mother was just—she never made us feel like we were missing something...If you want something, work your ass off and go get it.” ([33:50])
• Now single for the first time in 23 years, Sarah is learning to balance her natural hustle with learning to be more receptive, not just chasing for the sake of being chosen.

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VII. Career Beginnings: From Opera to NFL Cheerleader to Actress ([39:02]–[46:13])

• Sarah describes the unusual path from studying opera in college to cheering for the Dallas Cowboys.
• Her “big break” came through a serendipitous meeting with legendary director Robert Altman, who offered to help her if she ever came to L.A.
  • Naively packed up and moved without a Plan B, motivated purely by “bliss.”
  • Sarah: “It was manifestation at a level I didn’t understand. What is a plan B? Well, of course I’m gonna make it.” ([44:21])
  • After later learning Altman’s stature, she became too intimidated to call him back—highlighting how knowledge of others’ status can actually increase self-doubt.

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VIII. Motherhood and Making It Work ([49:02]–[50:51])

• Sophia asks about the challenge of simultaneous career success and new motherhood.
  • Sarah: “As much as I love feminism and I am a feminist, I feel like we’re now expected to be the boss at home and the boss at work, which is a very unrealistic set of expectations.” ([49:49])
  • She shares pragmatically about childcare (“I have a nanny”), building breastfeeding into her schedule, and simply “making it work.”

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IX. Divorce, Co-Parenting, and Reframing Endings ([51:10]–[53:20])

• Sarah describes the end of her marriage:
  • Endings are gradual, and rarely due to one person.
  • Sarah: “The goose just doesn’t lay the golden egg anymore...It’s just that simple.” ([51:33])
  • She frames the relationship as a tremendous privilege (“We grew up together. We shaped each other.”) and sees their co-parenting as a new, healthier dynamic.

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X. Generational Progress & Modeling for Children ([56:51]–[61:58])

• The two discuss how today’s women are more apt to leave for the kids, to model self-respect and joy, rather than stay for the kids.
  • Sophia: “We’re the first generation...to say, ‘I’m leaving for my kids. I’m leaving to model something better for my children than what was modeled for me.’” ([56:51])
  • Sarah reflects on the pain and real work of divorce, including honoring emotions and processing grief openly.
  • Sarah: “We need to learn to open ourselves up to pain. And it was the moment I stopped numbing myself...When I finally looked at my pain, that’s when I was able to love myself enough to get out.” ([61:30])

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XI. Sex, Agency, and Breaking Taboos ([62:15]–[68:41])

• They talk about Sarah’s role in Sex Life and how it mirrored and fueled her own personal exploration of female agency and sexuality.
  • Sarah: “Viagra...just rolls off everyone’s tongue...but if a woman is talking about her period...we have to do it behind closed doors.” ([63:08])
  • Sarah shares how the show elevated her to a platform for sexual agency, and women reached out about issues from orgasms to using their voices.
  • Sarah: “Orgasms and sexuality, these are God-given rights...Women’s sexuality is not a sordid thing to talk about.” ([65:11])
  • Emphasizing the importance of modeling healthy, open relationships for her children.

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XII. Embracing Singlehood, Sensuality, and Wholeness ([68:56]–[72:03])

• As a newly single woman, Sarah describes how she’s reconnecting with her mischievous, sensual side—no longer suppressing herself.
  • Sarah: “Sensuality and especially women femininity—this is how I take up space in the world… That landscape can change each day.” ([70:33])
• She credits this phase as essential preparation for her next relationship, and sees it as integral to the honesty of her book.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Courage is something that we have to actively practice... our brains are wired for survival. So if there’s a situation that feels scary... our natural instinct is to retreat.”
  — Sarah Shahi ([08:35])
• “It is actually one of the most selfless things you can do is to be selfish in that sense.”
  — Sarah Shahi ([27:34])
• “There was no way for you to learn that until you learned it.”
  — Sophia Bush ([24:03])
• “Trust the timing of your life...just follow your happy.”
  — Sarah Shahi ([19:15])
• “The goose just doesn’t lay the golden egg anymore... It’s just that simple.”
  — Sarah Shahi ([51:33])
• “Orgasms and sexuality, these are God-given rights... this isn’t something that should be taboo.”
  — Sarah Shahi ([65:11])
• “When you have the courage to do what’s in your highest good...it trickles down to everybody else.”
  — Sarah Shahi ([27:22])
• “I have now realized: oh no, this is kind of who I am… Sensuality and especially women femininity—this is how I take up space…”
  — Sarah Shahi ([70:33])

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Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• Sarah’s mother turning escaping abuse into an “adventure” ([09:25])
• Sarah’s description of her unorthodox career leap—Dallas Cowboy cheerleader to LA actress ([39:02]–[45:58])
• Sophia’s anecdote of not calling Rihanna back due to intimidation ([46:17])
• Sarah’s unfiltered advice to women in the bedroom: “You gotta start tickling that clit. Like, get on it.” ([67:26])
• Sarah’s honest humor about post-divorce dating at 40: “My tits aren’t perky anymore.” ([28:22])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:22] Introduction to Sarah’s multi-faceted career and new book
• [05:13] Catching up post-book tour and the challenges of constant travel
• [07:46] On courage: how Sarah learned bravery and manages fear
• [12:31] Effects of childhood trauma and modeling from her mother
• [14:03] Relationship dynamics and healing old patterns
• [19:15] Following joy and trusting the timing of life
• [23:13] Shame, permission, and societal expectations for women
• [27:46] The role of humor and authenticity in Sarah’s story
• [33:50] Hard-working upbringing as an outsider in Texas
• [39:02] Sarah’s path from opera to cheerleading to meeting Robert Altman
• [49:02] Navigating motherhood and career
• [51:10] Divorce, reframing relationships, and healthy co-parenting
• [56:51] Generational shift: leaving for the kids
• [62:15] Sex Life, sexual agency, and breaking taboos
• [68:56] Rediscovering herself as a single woman; embracing sensuality

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Tone & Style

• Frank, funny, empathetic, and empowering.
• Equal parts vulnerability, wisdom, and humor—true to the “work in progress” theme.
• Both speakers frequently use plain language, playful banter, and unapologetic realness.

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For Listeners

This episode is for anyone interested in stories of resilience, growth through pain, feminine agency, and the real, often humorous, messiness of becoming whole. Whether navigating personal transformation, relationships, or simply seeking more honest conversation about sexuality and selfhood, Sarah and Sophia deliver a refreshing blend of support, perspective, and laughter.

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Next Episode:
Sophia teases that Part 2 of this conversation with Sarah Shahi will continue exploring these themes.

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Transcript

[Sarah Shahi]

This is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human.

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[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Fun before all the algorithm fed blah.

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[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

But I have a confession.

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[Sarah Shahi]

The holidays have come and gone once again. But if you've forgotten to get that.

[Hunter Woodhall]

Special someone in your life a gift.

[Sarah Shahi]

Well, Mint Mobile is extending their holiday offer half off unlimited wireless. So here's the idea. You get it now. You call it an early present for next year. What do you have to lose? Give it a [e-mail] Switch limited time 50% off regular price for new customers. Upfront payment required $45 for three months, $90 for six month or $180 for 12 month plan taxes and fees. Extra speeds may slow after 50 gigabytes per month when network is busy see terms hey, this is U.S. olympic gold medalist Tara Davis Woodhall.

[Hunter Woodhall]

And I'm U.S. paralympic gold medalist Hunter Woodhall.

[Sarah Shahi]

As athletes, our lives are about having a clear path and a team that you can absolutely trust.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

So when it came to getting the.

[Sarah Shahi]

Best mortgage, we chose PennyMac.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

PennyMac is proud to be the official mortgage provider of Team USA and you.

[Sarah Shahi]

Learn more at pennymac.com PennyMac Loan Services, LLC equal housing lender NMLS ID 35953 licensed by the Department of Financial Protection and Innovation under the California Residential Mortgage Lending act, conditions and restrictions may apply.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Hi everyone, it's Sophia.

[Ebay Advertisement Voice]

Welcome to Work in Progress.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Hey Whip Smarties. Welcome back to the podcast. Today we are going to interview an author whose book I adore, who you probably know because she also happens to be an incredibly accomplished actress with a fascinating story. Sarah Shahi is here today and she is not known for playing it safe. She is an actor, an author, a former NFL cheerleader. She studied opera. She has built a career pushing boundaries. She gravitates towards characters who hold power and vulnerability, like the incredible woman she played on Sex Life, her character in the hit political murder mystery paradise, which is coming back for season two on February 23rd. She's also managing to find the time to film the sequel to Red, White and Royal Blue and is publishing her first book, Life is Lifey that offers an unfiltered and laugh out loud reflection on resilience, womanhood, sex, power and the messy middle where real growth happens. Let's dive in with Sarah Shahi.

[Olympics Announcer]

Hello.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Hello beautiful.

[Sarah Shahi]

How are you?

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

I'm so good. I've been thinking about you. I'm so happy you're here and I'm like, God, we have been trying to hang out since we saw each other at the airport.

[Sarah Shahi]

I know, that's so crazy. I feel like you have lived nine lives since then and I have two. So this catch up will probably cover a lot of things.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

I love it. Are you home in la?

[Sarah Shahi]

I am, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just got back a couple days ago.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Where were you?

[Sarah Shahi]

I was all over. I was in London doing a movie and then I went to. And then I just, I was on book tour. So then we were in London, New York, Nashville, Miami, Austin. And then. Yeah, I just got back a couple days ago.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Wow.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah, so it was cool.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

You're trying to figure out what time zone you're into.

[Sarah Shahi]

The amount of times I wake up in the morning this last week and I'm like, where am I? Like which hotel? What state? What time? Like, where is this? But. But yeah, no, it's just you know, it's like, I had a partner one time who didn't understand that. Like, it's. It's not being ungrateful to say, like, I'm tired or venting about a really hard schedule. Like, I am equally grateful. Like, I'm. I'm allowed to say I'm tired and still love what I do at the same time. It doesn't mean I'm not grateful. You know what I mean? So it's like. And I thought about that often on. On, like, this time in my life because I'm like, how lucky am I that I get to be tired from doing something that I love so much and something that I created, you know, so. But, yeah, but no, I definitely need a vacation, girl. I need a vacation.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Oh, honey, I feel you.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Really interesting. I've thought a lot about that. A friend of mine likewise said to me once, everybody complains about their job, and just because other people think your job is fancy does not mean your job is not really hard.

[Sarah Shahi]

It's all relative, isn't it?

[Xolair Advertisement Voice]

Yeah.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

And. And she was like, it's okay for you to say this is hard. Like, you're a human. You're not a robot. You're not an avatar. And it really reminded me. I was like, oh, right. Like, you know, a CEO who makes 40 times what I make a year is complaining about his job too. So, like, percent I'm allowed to have hard days and then be like, wow, I can't believe I'm so lucky that this is my job. It's both.

[Sarah Shahi]

Exactly. Exactly. You can carry both at the same time.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Well, one of the things I just am obsessed with you about, I mean, aside from, like, personally, but professionally, is the way you do your job. And you. And you do all of it, and you do it with grace, and you do it with fire. And you are one of those people that I observe as being completely. Not to say that you don't carry fear. It's like you're just not intimidated enough by what you want to do that you don't do it.

[Sarah Shahi]

Are you talking about on screen, or are you talking about all of it? Life in every way?

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Like, your job's on screen, your life choices, this book you've written, like, all of it. And I. You're just consistently one of the women I think about. When I think about brave women, when I'm trying to encourage myself to be.

[Sarah Shahi]

Brave, I mean it.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

And I. I know we, like, jumped right in because I'm so happy to see you, but, like, One of the things I normally ask people right when we start is if you see yourself versions of yourself, traits in yourself in younger you, like, if you got to interact with Sarah at 8 or 9 years old, like, would you be interacting with a brave little girl? Or is that something you've had to learn through your life?

[Sarah Shahi]

It's something I've really had to learn, you know, and I think it's, it's interesting because I think one of the dumbest things I've ever heard in my life is when people say, oh, don't be afraid, or, you know, that's not that scary because everyone's fear factor is different. Right? And it's something that I talk about in the book and what I had to learn. You know, I had a very interesting upbringing. My mom is incredible. Like, I have had an abusive father. I talk about this in the book. He held a gun to my head. My mom and I were in and out of women's shelters at one point in my life, and she really. And, and, and she, she was always able to take a situation like even that. I remember one time she woke me up in the middle of the night. I was probably about five or six years old. And she was like, are you ready? Are you ready to go on, like.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

A really fun adventure?

[Sarah Shahi]

And we're going to go on a sleepover? You know, it wasn't this, like, panic, right? And so I, I, I feel like my outlook, which I have noticed is not the norm for most people. My outlook happens to be very glass, more glass half full than half empty. And that was something that I learned from a young age. But courage is something that, like, we have to actively practice because the way our brains are wired, our brains are wired for fight or flight. We're wired for survival. So if there's a situation that feels scary to us, obviously our natural instinct is to retreat or to not go forward. Which is why, you know, if we just take it back to relationships or any type of dynamic in life, we would rather choose a familiar hell than an unfamiliar mystery, potentially. But I have always thought that not having fear is stupid because it's a very natural thing to have. But I also have learned to have a relationship with my fear or my nerves. And I've been able to look at it and say, okay, I'm going to take you in and I'm going to see what you're trying to teach me, and I'm going to walk with you anyway. And we're going to go do this thing that's really Scary. So, yeah, that's just how I've always. And in terms of that, that's something I've had to learn as I've gotten older and as life has gotten trick year and having children and, you know, standing up to people and really using your voice. Yeah, that was something I had to learn later in life.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, it's really interesting because, you know, talk about the mark of a healed person.

[Sarah Shahi]

Right.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

You can talk about something really extreme in a way that is like talking about the weather, like, the. The experiences you had as a kid, what you were dealing with, with. With a really abusive parent. Like.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

And one of the things I've had to do on my own journey to figure out my own is go like, oh, there were things I learned. There were experiences I had that felt normal to me that were not. So my scale of, like, what's really bad or scary, what deserves fear, versus, like, what joy should look like was really out of whack. Do you feel like you had to recalibrate where your fear lived, like, to get out of that fight or flight, to get out of that early childhood trauma? Or do you think your mom's bravery, her ability to have you, hold you, take care of you, no matter how hard the circumstances got. Did she become your sort of marker for a version of normalcy or, like, healthy safety? Or did you two have to re. Rejigger that in a way, together as you got out of that situation?

[Sarah Shahi]

Well, that's interesting because. Yes and no. You know, what my mom was able to model for me was, you know, especially after she and my father split, our life was chaotic, but there was no tension, there was no friction. And so it was nice to be able to experience that type of peace. But then what I also. What the other side to that coin is that as an adult at learning how to be in dynamics with. Again, whether it's work relationships, whether it's romantic relationships, I came from a lot of abandonment issues. Right. Like, I really feel like, you know, as adults, we enter different chapters of our life based on the last chapter we were in. And for me, it took me a long time to be able to. And it's something I'm still working on to be able to recognize or pinpoint when I'm acting from that little girl place who just wants to be chosen by her father, or when I'm being a confident woman who's using her voice in a very mature, responsible, highly emotionally intelligent way.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, yeah. Something you write about in the book. And it's funny because I Want to ask you questions for the listeners who haven't read it and then also not spoil it for the people who haven't read it. Yeah, I'm like, I'm like, is this what film reviewers feel like? Like, but you talk about, you know, you have this chapter on courage.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

And on choosing to leave a relationship, a life that looked perfect from the outside. Yeah, we need to have a bottle of wine about this.

[Sarah Shahi]

Let's do it, girl. I'm in town.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

But the, the really interesting thing that you're just talking about with your childhood makes me think about that moment in adulthood. Like when you grow up in abandonment, when you grow up wanting to fix a wound, wanting to have the great version of the relationship that your parents didn't do. Do you feel like in addition to becoming what I think so many of us do as women, is people pleasing people pleasers? I love the way you, you talk about it in the book again. Do you think it also is the kind of thing where you look back and you go, oh, I see, I see why I overstayed in that relationship and in this relationship because I, I wanted to make it work. Because failing meant it was like the bad thing I grew up around.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah, I think, I think it's, it's that what you just said and. Because I think, you know, so. And this isn't, this doesn't even, I'm very woo woo, right. You know, I'm one step away from walking around barefoot everywhere. And, but like, but this is not even woo woo as much as it is science. What happens with our brain is we have a relationship or we have a behavior or a pattern. And our brain, the neurons in our brain are used to firing in a certain direction. So when you're a child of abandonment, you're constantly wanting to be picked. You're constantly wanting to prove your worth. So at least for me speaking, if my dad stayed, like, I, my, my, my dad was very in and out. Sometimes he was there, sometimes he wasn't there. And as a child, you always associate, you're like, oh, I'm the reason he left, so if I can be good enough the next time he comes around, then he'll stay. So I remember like I used to be like a cat, like purring in between his legs as a little girl, hoping that he wouldn't leave. So what that started forming in my brain was this behavior or this pattern that in order for a man to want me, I have to prove my worth, I have to prove my value, and I need him to Pick me. So that absolutely played out in my relationship dynamics when there were situations that I probably should have exited way before I did because I had this built in pattern that my brain was like, no, no, you need to, you need to fulfill this pattern from childhood, remember? Like, you need to be chosen, he needs to pick you. You need to prove your worth. So, but, but you know, Sophia, I also, so yes to all of that. But then I take it one step further, which is like, I also believe that we attract situations to us in order to serve our highest growth and to help our healing. And every situation that I was in, every, I was, I don't think I would, I would have been able to exit a minute sooner than I had because I needed to stay in order to serve my highest growth. And I like, you know, one of my favorite quotes ever, I'm a walking bumper sticker, as you know. The book is like full of quotes. Like, I love, I love quotes, right? I like to speak in quotes. But it's like, God never puts the stars in the wrong place. So trust the timing of your life. In every situation that I was in where I added more stress to myself, it's like, oh, do I speak up tonight after dinner or should I wait till tomorrow morning? You know, or like whatever. It's like it didn't matter because when you let it go, when you let everything go and you're like, you know what? Like, this is another philosophy I talk about in the book. You follow your happy. So yeah, I'm covering so many subjects here, but they're all kind of like interconnected somehow. But it's like I, you know, as people, we are used to, you know, our egos want to figure things out. We want to know, what are we doing tonight? What is, what does tomorrow look like? Like, the mystery feels very uncomfortable for us because when we know things, we feel safe. We spend so much time trying to figure things out. We spend so much time trying to solve the equation in our head. And how do I get this person to react like this? And what happens if I do this? And should I speak up now or should I speak up later? And we just put a lot of energy into the I don't know and figuring it out phase. When my point is it's like it's not worth it. Like, what. Instead I feel like we should do is just follow our happy. So the reason you may not know like what to do in this particular moment at 5:12pm on a Wednesday is because you're not supposed to know, right? Now, the pieces haven't fallen together yet. So trust the timing of your life.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Sarah Shahi]

And just focus on what you do know. Focus on whatever it is that brings you joy. If you'd rather have that extra chocolate chip cookie, if you want to go for a walk, if you want to cancel on your friends in favor of a quieter night like it, put down the emails, put down the phone, like do something else that sparks some joy. And little by little, the things you don't know, the things that you were chasing, the answers to those answers will just kind of fall into your lap.

[Xolair Advertisement Voice]

Mm.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

And now a word from our sponsors who make this show possible.

[Xolair Advertisement Voice]

Xolair Omalizumab is proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens. Xolair 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people 1 year of age and older to reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods. While taking Xolair, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to Xolair. Xolair may cause a severe life threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you have ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Xolair should not be used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions including anaphylaxis. Xolair is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions including anaphylaxis, while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effects such as cancer, fever, muscle aches and rash, parasitic infection, or heart and circulation problems have been reported. Please see xolair.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about Xolair. This is an advertisement for Xolair paid for by Genentech and Novartis.

[Ebay Advertisement Voice]

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[Olympics Announcer]

It's an Olympics you'll never forget. Prime time in Milan, the moments.

[Sarah Shahi]

Lily Kim with the gold medal.

[Olympics Announcer]

Flex the stars.

[Xolair Advertisement Voice]

Ilya Malinin out of this world.

[Olympics Announcer]

The spectacle from beautiful northern Italy with very special guests every night of the Olympics experience the world's biggest show primetime in Milan tonight, 8, 7 Central on NBC. And Peacock.

[Hunter Woodhall]

Hello. Malcolm Glauble here. We're here in New York City with T Mobile for business recording another episode of revisionist history about how 5G network slicing strengthens trust and connections across worldwide industries.

[T Mobile Business Representative]

Slicing can be used for so many different things. We're here with our friends from CNN from Siemens Energy. The ways that it can be used, frankly, are limitless and are really, really built to think through. How can T Mobile understand the pain points that our customers have? Smash those pain points and help help you deliver very specific outcomes?

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

It's one of the tactics that I try to use to undo the shame stuff, you know, because as women, we're cultured with so much shame. You know, not to say that other women don't have it hard or harder, but I do think there's a specific, specific ingredient that having a version of fame adds to that where how dare you be unhappy? How dare you ask for more? How dare you be unsatisfied because you're so much luckier than all these other people? And for me, one of the greatest antidotes to that kind of shame of, wow, I wish I'd figured that out sooner. Wish I'd learned that lesson faster. Essentially telling myself I'm stupid and slow, is to say there was no way for you to learn that until you learned it.

[Sarah Shahi]

Exactly.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

There was no way for you to know in your bones until you tried every avenue and then you knew the answer.

[Sarah Shahi]

That's right.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

You can't like, guess and then feel confident in your guess. You have to live and then adjust as you feel.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yes.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

And one of the things I found really profound, and I wonder about this for you as well, is that when I made this decision as an adult, adult, you know, technically midlife, 41 to, well, 40, but, you know, approaching my 41st birthday to leave a marriage that I was unhappy in, even though it looked perfect.

[Xolair Advertisement Voice]

Sure.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Even though I'd done all the right things, there were so many people that felt permission to share their own dissatisfaction, their own walking on eggshells in their home, their own desire for something else. And then there was a group of women that were like, oh, if you think happy is the measure for your life or your marriage, like, you got another thing coming, honey. And I was like, you don't think you're supposed to be happy in the house you live in?

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

And like that.

[Sarah Shahi]

My response to people like that is, I'm like. Because instantly what I hear is how unhappy they are. And you know, misery loves company, right? And it's just I, you know, when my marriage ended, I definitely lost friends and it's totally fine. But it's like what I say when people. I don't even waste energy in engaging in that type of frequency. And my whole thing is I'm like, I pray for you. I pray for you. I pray for your mental health and your sanity because, wow, like, life is so much more fun when you realize that joy and happiness and going after the life of your dreams is fulfilling. You know, it's like, we're here for such a blip of an eye. Like, yeah, tomorrow is not guaranteed. None of this is guaranteed, you know, and if people think that they are here simply to service other people like that, that's not why we were put here, you know, so, so, yeah, like, those haters, they don't even exist to me. Like, I don't totally, you know, they don't. I pray for you totally.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Well, and that's, that's just it, like, it sends me. I mean, to your point, like, I'm. I'm also very woo woo me. It's science. Because it's the only way I can make sense of, like, big feelings. I'm like, what's the data say? And then how do I put them together?

[Sarah Shahi]

Sure. Life is fun from that place.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

And it's like, it's why I think dreaming and setting your goals and then, you know, thinking about quantum mechanics is fun. And for me, I really had to get to a point where I was like, like, I don't know what this life is or what it's going to be, but I actually think that the bare minimum to ask for, not, not the, the highest. I actually think the lowest part of the bar is I'd like to be happy in the four walls of my own home.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yes, yes.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Because like, everything else out in the world is hard enough, man.

[Sarah Shahi]

And you know what, Sophia? The minute. What I have found is that when you have the courage to do what's in your highest good, and you operate from that place. It trickles down to everybody else.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, I love that.

[Sarah Shahi]

It. It's not. It is actually one of the most selfless things you can do is to be selfish in that sense.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Of course.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

And something I just am always, again, kind of gobsmacked by with you is your ability. Like, we're sitting here having a very deep conversation about the trials and tribulations of life and growth and manifestation and science and all the things. And you also have an absolutely filthy sense of humor. You are wickedly funny. Like, there's a part of your book.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

You are.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

There's even a. There's even a part in your book where you talk about, like, here I am, I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask for a divorce after, you know, 18 years in a relationship. I'm gonna go out there and start over. And I'm 40 and my tits aren't perky anymore.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's great.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

That's bravery. And I just was like, get out of town. Like, I know exactly what you mean. And I don't know, sometimes I find that the smartest people I know that are also the funniest people I know have, like, really been through some and figured out how to get through it. So, like, where does your levity come from? Have you always had it, or is that also a learned skill like bravery?

[Sarah Shahi]

Well, I think I don't know my levity. That's a great way of putting it because I actually don't consider myself a funny person. Like, I know people who can. I, I, I, I don't consider myself funny. I consider myself real. And I think the humor comes from that place and just my ability to be super authentic. Like, yeah, it's that, you know, But I'm not somebody who can, like, regale a crowd with my amazing ability to tell a story. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not that person. You know, I can cry in front of people. I'll do that all day long. But in order to, like, tell a joke, like, I can't remember anything, like, at all.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

So funny.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I just know how to be really real. But. And yes, I think that is something that I just came into this world with is I haven't, I didn't have fear, or maybe, or I have less fear than most. There are times when I do in terms of just being super, super real. And maybe that came from my very humble beginnings, you know, growing up in Texas in a middle to low Class area with a single working mom. I don't know. I don't know where that came from, but I've always been like that. And also, it was important to me that, like, when writing this book, I don't like being lectured to. And I think we learn better, or at least I know I learned better with humor. And nobody reads anymore. So I was like, if I want to get my information across to a group of people that are. I'm asking to sit down with an actual book. Like, I want it to hook them from the first line. So humor was an important part in terms of, like, putting the book together and getting the message across, for sure.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

And I think about, like, you were just saying, you know, you grew up in Texas, single mom. And I'm like, hold the phone. There's a big asterisk here that maybe also leads to your sense of humor because you grew up as an Iranian Spanish kid in Texas.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

You know, there are so many places where that might have been easier. Like, I don't know, in New York, like, how was your community there? Were you. Were you like, my other buddy? Ah, okay.

[Sarah Shahi]

But here was. The trick is it's like, I didn't have a word, a name like Maria, you know, Like, I didn't have. You know, like, my real name is ahu. Ahu. Jahansu Shahi. So I got. I got ridiculed in school, and I had a unibrow, and I was made fun of every single day, and nobody I liked ever liked me back. And, you know, and I was a nerd, and, you know, who literally had tape on my glasses. And, like, I. It was. It was not the easiest place to grow up in that sense, but so I didn't have a community in a way that most kids with the white picket fence, like, you know, and a mom and a dad, like, did have a community. I didn't have that. But again, I. And I credit a lot of this to my mom. Like, my mom is such a superwoman, and to this day, she still is. She's 75, and she climbs up on the roof, and she's like, we don't need a repairman. I can fix the air conditioning myself. Like, Home Depot was her name. I'm like, in the next life, mom, you got to come back as a man. Because, I don't know, like, she runs circles around me in terms of her energy and her ability to, like, get done. And. And so my. Our mother was just. She never made us feel like we were missing something, like, whatever the Other kids had, we also had. And she also taught me from a really young age. And I think, you know, she came from a war torn country to be the daughter of a foreigner. It's an interesting experience and one I have felt that sometimes I don't resonate as deeply with adults who have not come from hardship because of this. Like from the time that we were young, like, she was like, you got to have a 401k together. Like, let's go. It doesn't matter if you're, you know, nine. Like, like you need to think about your future. You need to think about whatever and be grateful for what you have. Because she from a country where we know what's happening there now, you know, without to take it into that direction so much. But it's like it was an education, was a privilege for women where she came from, you know, and so, and she had to work for everything that she had. And it wasn't about patting yourself on the back, but it's like there is no difference between you and the person next to you. So if you want something, work your ass off and go get it.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Sarah Shahi]

And so, so that type of ethic and discipline was instilled in me from a young age. And, and yeah, and like I said, like, she was like, there's, there's no difference between you and that person. Like, if you want it, go get it, go get it.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

It's on you.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah. And she also told me from a very young age too, like, you know, we didn't have money, so she was. And everyone knew I wanted to get out of Texas. I always, I was always hungry for a life that was bigger than the one that I was leading. And like, if you want that, then you need to get yourself there. Like, you need to do this. She was like, I'll support you as much as I can, but it's going to be on you. So I really do credit my mom for that kind of hustle, you know, but the flip to that is as an adult and you know, I'm in this interesting phase in my life. I'm. I'm single for the first time in 23 years. I've been single now for a year. And where I'm so used to the hustle and I'm so used to the chase that now I'm, I'm learning how to cut that off. And, and I'm learning to be more like in the receptive mode. And you know, when I am like, my chase is appropriate when it comes from a very inspired place. Of action. But if it's all about just wanting a guy to like me, that's the wrong inspired action. So I'm really, so I'm, I'm continually learning lessons about my personality and sides, like where they service me and where they come from, a more ego place. And you know, I need to, I need to quiet that bitch down and.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Just totally, totally be like, oh, you're not the part of myself that gets to operate the vehicle. Thank you. Like, get in the back seat. Yeah, I'm very much, very much on that journey.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yes.

[Ebay Advertisement Voice]

And now a word from our sponsors.

[Xolair Advertisement Voice]

Xolair Omalizumab is proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens. Xolair 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people 1 year of age and older to reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods. While taking Xolair, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to Xolair. Xolair may cause a severe life threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you have ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Xolair should not be used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions including anaphylaxis. Xolair is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions including anaphylaxis while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effects such as cancer and fever, muscle aches and rash, parasitic infection or heart and circulation problems have been reported. Please see xolair.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about Xolair. This is an advertisement for Xolair, paid for by Genentech and Novartis.

[Ebay Advertisement Voice]

Tell me if I'm alone here, Whip Smarties. But shopping used to feel more fun before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes. But I have a confession. I have found that fun feeling again on ebay. Because on ebay it's not just shopping. It's a full on fashion pursuit. And when you find the thing, that adrenaline hit is real. Like when you score that rare Adidas collab that's lived on your mood board. The Dior saddlebag you ripped out of a magazine in 2007 and never got over. Or something like The Cecile Bonson XGT2160 that sold out in five seconds. Yeah, those. It's about the thrill of finding pieces that feel like me. And I want you to find pieces that feel like you. There's always more to discover. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by ebay. Authenticity guarantee. Ebay things people love.

[Olympics Announcer]

It's an Olympics you'll never forget. Prime time in Milan. The moments flowing.

[Sarah Shahi]

Kim with the gold medal.

[Olympics Announcer]

Flex the stars.

[Xolair Advertisement Voice]

Ilya Malinin out of this world.

[Olympics Announcer]

The spectacle from beautiful northern Italy with very special guests. Every night of the Olympics experience the world's biggest show. Prime time in Milan tonight, 8, 7 Central on NBC. And Peacock.

[Hunter Woodhall]

Hello, Malcolm Glaubel here. We're here in New York City with T Mobile for business recording another episode of revisionist history about how 5G network slicing strengthens trust and connections across worldwide industries.

[T Mobile Business Representative]

Slicing can be used for so many different things. We're here with our friends from cnn from Siemens energy. The ways that it can be used for, frankly, are limitless and are really, really built to think through. How can T Mobile understand the pain points that our customers have? Smash those pain points and help you deliver very specific outcomes.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

When you talk about like the hustle and the work, like, one of my favorite things in your story is it's the swift switch from studying opera in college. And then right after you're cheering for the Dallas Cowboys. Like, yeah, what?

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah, you.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

It's like Evita to Friday night Lights. Like, how. What, what is that timeline for you? Like, can you take us back? Why opera in the first place? Then how did the cheering like, it's so crazy. It feels like it's out of a movie. And I just like, I need the, I need the synopsis.

[Sarah Shahi]

Well, I was, I was a show choir kid and, you know, I, I was always on stage from the time that I was young, even if it wasn't acting. I was like Rachel Berry in bleed but lesi and, and I just love that word. And anyway, I do too.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

It's my favorite. I think we deserve to own it.

[Sarah Shahi]

The, like hard syllables like in the beginning and the end. It's just brilliant. Anyway, so I. Yeah, so I was at Southern Methodist University and I was like, I said I was always in show choir. So opera was something that I fell into very naturally. And I was in a play. I was in a musical theater production at smu and I'd always wanted to be an actress, but I didn't know how to do it. But everybody in the play knew that I wanted to be an actress. So they were like. And that I had dreams of going to L. A, but I Was like, I don't know how to get there. Right? Like, I didn't have money. Like, so they were like, well, why don't you try out for the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders? Because back in 1995, they were on SNL, so. And I was always an athlete in school. I was never a cheerleader. And so I was like, okay. And so I. I just drove to Texas Stadium that day, not knowing. Like, again, like, when they, you know, I was so naive. Like, I. There was no part of me that was like, oh, let me look it up online. Like, I didn't even know what online was. Like, AOL was a dial up. And so I was like, let me. I just drove to Texas Stadium one afternoon, and auditions were literally like three weeks from that date. They had posted it. And so I was like, oh, great, I'll just sign up. So I signed up and I made the team and a director named Robert Altman. And it breaks my heart the amount of times I have to spell out who he is, but I know you know who he is. He's essentially the Godfather of film. Like, for the listeners who don't know who he is, do yourselves a favor, go look up Robert Altman and just, like, treat yourself to an afternoon of his films. He was. He came to Texas to film a movie called Dr. T and the Women with Richard Gere, Kate Hudson and Liv Tyler. And in the movie, the girls were cheerleaders. So he used our rehearsal facilities for about two weeks that he was there. And all the cheerleaders, we were just extras in the background. Yeah, I didn't know who he was at all. Like, I had no. There was nothing in me that was like, oh, Hollywood director, maybe he can help me. Like, there was like, it did not exist in my head. For whatever reason, the stars aligned and he took a great big liking to me. And every day I sat with him. I had my own chair. Sophia, get this. I had my own chair in Video Village. 19 year old me next to Robert Altman.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Wow.

[Sarah Shahi]

And like, literally a PA would come and be like, sarah, your chair's here today. And I'm like, oh, my God, thank you so much. Like, I was like, cool. Oh, am I supposed to sit there? They're like, yeah, that's your chair. And I'm like, what? So I would sit next to him and we would speak about everything other than acting. And it was his. It was his, like, third to last day that he was there. When he finally was like, what do you want to do? And I said, well, I want to be an actress, I just don't know how to do it. And he was like, I think you have what it takes. He gave me his cell number and his office number and he said, I think you have something. If you ever move out to la, I want to help you. I went home that night and I googled him because again I was like, who is this person? Like, can he really help me? So I went home, I googled him. Of all the incredible Oscar nominated movies he did, the only one that I really recognized was the movie, that movie that almost tanked his career and Robin Williams career was a movie called Popeye. So I told my mom, I was like, mom, the guy who directed Popeye is telling me I got a shot. So I packed up my truck, I quit cheerleading, I quit smu. I quit everything that I knew. And I moved out west in 20 and 2000 and I never looked back. There was no part of me. Like when they say too like, you know, ignorance is bliss, Sophia. The amount of times people were like, well, what's your backup? What's your, what's your plan B? I'm like, what is a plan B? And they're like, well, a backup plan, like if you don't make it. And I'm like, what do you mean if I don't make it? Like, well, of course I'm gonna make it.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, this is what I'm doing.

[Sarah Shahi]

It was manifestation at a level that I didn't even understand. And now that I've gotten older and you know, life got a little heavier at times. I often remind myself of how I was that 19 to 25 year old self that was just like, just operating out of her bliss, like moment to moment. I was just so in my bliss. Like there was no, like, I remember going to an audition for the first time. I didn't even know what an audition was. I wasn't memorized. It was a producer session. There was all this food in the back of the room for the producers. I thought it was for the actors. So I go in and I start making myself a plate and people are like, how long have you been acting? And I go, I don't know, since Tuesday. Yeah. And they're like, they're like, how did you get your start? I'm like, well, do you know Robert Altman? And their jaws would drop. They're like, you know Robert Altman? I'm like, yeah, you told me I should come try it out. So I'm here and. And little by and it's interesting because When I came out to la, he was still in Texas filming, and we were playing phone tag with one another. So as I was sharing the story of how I came to LA while I was in la, people were also giving me an education on who Robert Altman was. And they were like, you should go back and watch his films. Anyway, long story short, by the time he called me back last, I was too intimidated to talk to him, so I didn't call him back. And then he. He passed a couple months after. So he was literally like the acting angel. Like, my catalyst for coming out was him.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Oh, my goodness.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Like, just the nudge you needed on your. On your energetic path.

[Sarah Shahi]

That's right. He was. Yeah, he was. He was just. He gave me that little push and then that was. That was it. Our. Our chapter was closed. Yeah.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah. Really cool.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

That's incredible. I don't know why my brain was just like, oh, my God. The closest I have to that story is when I never called Rihanna back in the day for whatever reason. There was like, a New York Fashion Week and then a series of events that I kept seeing Rihanna at, and we got seated next to each other at a dinner, and we vibed, and she's like, she's Rihanna. She's the coolest person alive on planet. And after, like, our third hang, she was like, take my number. We gotta hang out for real. And then I, like, took her. I put her number in my BlackBerry. Like, that's how long this was.

[Sarah Shahi]

Oh, my God.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

And then I never called her because I was like, what do I say to Rihanna? Like, I. I don't.

[Sarah Shahi]

Had umbrella come out.

[Ebay Advertisement Voice]

Yes.

[Sarah Shahi]

Oh, my God. I was.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

I was like, so fully. I just was like, this is such a weird. Like, what is a person text? And my friends were just like, yeah. When I told them the story, years later, my best friend, one of my best friends was like, I will never forgive you for this. Like, she's our favorite. I was like, I. But what am I going to do? Invite her over to a party? And she was like, yeah, yeah. And I was like, I don't. I don't actually think I can interact with a person who's famous like that because I lose my capacity to behave like a human. And then I'm like, well, what do you text? And people are like, what do you text anyone? I'm like, I don't. I don't actually know.

[Sarah Shahi]

Right, Right.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

It's like the only way I. The only thing I know to liken it to is like the thing where you're really in the vibe on set and then suddenly something happens and you get self conscious of.

[Sarah Shahi]

Right.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

The way I know that, like, oh, I'm in. My nervousness about acting body is suddenly I don't know what to do with my hands. Like, I'm just like, what are arms? Where do they go? Like, where do I.

[Sarah Shahi]

Put my hands?

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, like, what do you mean, where do I put my hands? They're just part of my body. But it's exact. It's like energetically that.

[Sarah Shahi]

Right.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

And I can't believe you had a version of it with Robert Altman being like, oh, my God, he's so amazing. I cannot. Like, what are you gonna say to him now that you know who he is?

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah, exactly. And it was just interesting because a person that I. But that also goes to show you your mind. Right. And how we are not our minds, because our minds can sell us some pretty warped, warped stories.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Yes.

[Sarah Shahi]

But, yeah, this was a person that I found so much in common with, with. Spoke so freely with.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Yes.

[Sarah Shahi]

And the minute other people started telling me about his accomplishments, I clammed up.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

You know, that's why they pressurized it.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah. And it's like, now I go into. I don't go into situations really investigating the person or researching what they've done or who they are. You know, when they say ignorance is bliss, like, it really is true. You know, you don't need to know everything.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

No, I don't. I don't need to feel more anxious than I already do. Thank you.

[Sarah Shahi]

Right, right, right, right, right. Exactly. Exactly.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

I'm really curious though, like, when you. When you really got to working.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Your acting career was blossoming was also when you first became a mom.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

You know, we were. We were certainly not in the moment as women that we're in now. Granted, it's not like it's all that much better, but was that incredibly complicated to be really succeeding in your career and also to have to be a mom? Because it is. It is just different for women in parenthood.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah, it is different. You know, the expectation is also different. Like, it's interesting. Like, as much as I love feminism and I am a feminist, I feel like we're now expected to be the boss at home and the boss at work, which is a very unrealistic set of expectations that have been placed on us. But my career really started blossoming whenever I had my firstborn. And, you know, I love babies. I did home births with all of my kids, including the Twins. And one was breach. And I, I just think babies bring such good luck. You know, if I had somebody today, I'd get pregnant tomorrow. You know what I mean?

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Like, I just.

[Sarah Shahi]

Babies are just incredible. But it was tough. But, you know, I'm not somebody who sits here and says, oh, I did it all alone. No, I had. I have a nanny. It was important for me to also breastfeed. So we would build it into the pumping schedule. We would build my pumping and breastfeeding schedule into the schedule for the day. And. Yeah, yeah, you just, you just make it work. You just make it work.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, yeah. And now you're. You're here with the book and you're talking about this messy middle period of life. And, you know, you fast forward, you have three kids, you realize, yeah, you love being their mom, and you also don't love being married to their dad. You want a shift in your life.

[Sarah Shahi]

I think, you know, when relationships end, it's never something that happens overnight. Right. It's like a downward slope. And it's never one person. It's two people. And for whatever reason, and there's no judgment here. And this is neither good nor bad, but the goose just doesn't lay the golden egg anymore.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Sarah Shahi]

It's just that simple. Right. You know, it's like I experienced a breakup last year that, you know, became somewhat public. And it's like there was no table flipping. There was no, no one person did the other dirty. Was nothing like that. It's just the, the. The dance has lost its step. Right?

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Sarah Shahi]

And to be able to say, I do love you, I do care about you, and I love you enough to let you go.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Sarah Shahi]

Because this is not serving either of us. It's actually one of the most courageous things, bravest things that someone can do.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

I agree.

[Sarah Shahi]

And it's not a failure. I never thought my divorce was a failure. I was like, we were together for 18 years. Like, we grew up together. We shaped each other. Like, what a privilege. What a privilege to be in connection with somebody from the time that you're in your early 20s until you're in your 40s. Like, that's cool, you know? And we have three incredible children. We're great co parents and we are committed to this life with each other for our children. And it's a really beautiful feeling knowing that we've reached this space with one another. You know, like that prior dynamic did not work, but we are in a new dynamic with one another. And yes, it took time to get there and took you know, emotional, emotional evolvement on both people's parts. But we're in this really lovely space and the kids are the most important thing and they're really benefiting from their parents being able to co parent healthily.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Sarah Shahi]

And you know, and that's all that matters to for he and I. Yeah.

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[Sarah Shahi]

Chloe Kim with the gold medal.

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[Sarah Shahi]

Out of this world.

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[Hunter Woodhall]

Hello. Malcolm Glabel here. We're here in New York City with T Mobile for business recording another episode of Revisionist history about how 5G network slicing strengthens trust and connections across worldwide industries.

[T Mobile Business Representative]

Slicing can be used for so many different things. We're here with our friends from cnn from Siemens Energy. The ways that it can be used, frankly, are limitless and are really, really built to think through. How can T Mobile understand the pain points that our customers have? Smash those pain points and help you deliver very specific outcomes.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

A friend of mine said something really interesting to me, you know, talking about progress and obviously the, you know, the backlash we see around the world to it, particularly for women. And she said, you know, I think one of the things I've come to realize is that one of the greatest markers of progress for our generation, and it might not be something people see till later because I think we're the first generation of women not to say, I'll stay for the kids, but to say I'm leaving for my kids, I'm leaving to model something better for my children than what was modeled for me. I don't want to teach them to seek this out and whether this is something toxic, whether it's abusive, whether it's just not happy.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

You know, to reframe, as you said, whether it's divorce or an ending or anything as a success.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

To say, I walked alongside this person for years.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

We learned things. And then we came to the day, after a long time of shifting apart, we came to the day where we were meant to go on our own journeys.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Like, what a gorgeous thing, as you said, to experience portions of your life alongside someone and then to be generous enough with yourself and for them to say, I deserve what's next for me and you deserve what's next for you, instead of let's stay because once we said we would and let's be miserable forever.

[Sarah Shahi]

You know, I've always felt that forever, it's wrong to say, you know, till death do us part. And look, people who take those vows and feel great about them, that's incredible. And look, I did, too. Right? So it's like, I, I, we've all been there. We've all been there so it's like, I understand. And I know that at the time when you're saying those things, you really mean it. Nobody gets married, planning their divorce. So it's like. And, you know, and I was like, I want to. When we die, I want to be buried on top of you and come back as ghosts and haunt people. You know what I mean?

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

So my.

[Sarah Shahi]

My love carries into the afterlife. So. So it's a very deep love. But, you know, at the same time, it's, you know, like you said, it's. It's. It's. It is an act of bravery. It is just an act of bravery. And it is one of the most selfless things, you know, you can do is to be able to say, we're going to let each other go, because this isn't serving either of us anymore. And when you do have kids, you have to think about. You have to think about what you're modeling for them by staying.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Yes.

[Sarah Shahi]

You know, it's like, I have a daughter and two sons. And so for me, it was like, would I be happy if my daughter were in a relationship like this? If my daughter felt like the way I feel. Yep. Would I want this for her? And the answer was absolutely not with my boys, as I was like, am I okay modeling this for them? Do I want them to think that this is how a woman should act when she's not happy? A woman? And it was like, no. And it doesn't mean there's no tears. It doesn't mean that it's not hard. You know, one of the hardest. You know, I really got my PhD in pain management when I got my divorce, right. So it was like, what do you do with the ring? What do you do with the pictures on the wall? Like, what do you do with all that stuff? Where does the love go? You know, you carry all this love for somebody for so long. Like, it doesn't just disappear. And also, especially when you have children with them, you're still connected to them, really learning what to do with. With all those energies that were once flowing in one direction so heavily, where does it now go? I spent a lot of time in that space. Right. And, you know, and. And talk about it in the book. And also just healing and heartbreak. Like, how do you get through it? You know, like, everyone. There's no. There's no one way to grieve. And I feel like people don't talk enough about grieving because pain is something that we've been conditioned to sort of, like, not feel right like, from the Time that we're young, if we fall, our moms, you know, they put a band aid on it, tell us not to cry, we get a double scooped ice cream cone, and we're off on our way. Right? We're, you know, it's like, oh, you're okay. You're fine. Don't cry. You're good. It's all good. You're fine. But if anything, pain is inevitable, right? So it's like, you can't go through life without experiencing pain. But we. We need to learn to open ourselves up to pain. And it was the moment when I stopped numbing myself. It was the moment that I. I stopped escaping or trying to run or replace my pain or, you know, that that's. And when I finally was like, okay, where are you? What are you trying to teach me? When I finally looked at my pain, that's when I was able to love myself enough to be able to get out of something that wasn't serving me anymore.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

That's really beautiful. You talk about this in the book, but I would love to touch on it a little bit because you share about how of all the things that you've worked on that are wonderful. Also, side note, I'm the biggest fan of Paradise. I can't talk about it.

[Sarah Shahi]

Oh, thank you.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

But sex life was so breathtaking. It felt, like revolutionary in a lot of ways.

[Sarah Shahi]

It did. Yeah.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

And to read about how it came to you in a moment where you were really not just on screen as this character, but in your own life, processing what you're talking about, processing female agency, where you got to explore desire and taboo and happiness and the lack thereof through a character like.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Holy.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

I learned so much more about it through the book than I knew.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. So, I mean, please, if you could just speak to it. I think it's so incredible. And then in the book, you're offering some advice about sex, which I feel like you had to be emboldened to do by the show.

[Sarah Shahi]

100%. Yeah. It was also like, you know, Sophia, I feel like we live in this age where Viagra. Like I talk about in the book, Viagra, which is something that makes a limp dick hard, just rolls off of everyone's tongue like it's everyday vernacular, and we just accept it. But if a woman is talking about her period or progesterone or any kind of hormonal change, we have to do it behind closed doors. Like, I'll never forget, there was this one day on set where I was on my period, and I asked A PA If I could have some tampons. And she was like, oh. And she, you know, got on the walk and she was like, you know, turn to channel 105. And I was like, what's going on? And then they were like, yes, there. If you want to step into your trailer, we'll. We'll bring you what you need. And I was like, what? And they. I go into my trailer and then, you know, this, you know, knock on the door, and the door kind of, like, ominously swings open in this little, like, package is, like, just through the crack. And it was in a manila envelope. And I'm like, are you kidding me? Everybody came out of the job out of a vagina here. Like, it's not like my period. The fact that I'm bleeding shouldn't be this, like, thing that, you know, like, I should feel ashamed for talking about, like, what? So it was. It was also important for me to be part of the conversation to help, like, switch that dynamic a little bit. But when I was on Sex life, yes. Like, you know, not only was it, like, a battle cry for so many women that were unhappy and felt unseen, and, you know, the show came at a time in my life where the character of Billy had the courage to question all of the things that I was silently questioning and I was too scared to question. So it really was fate, you know, going to work. I felt like I was. It was therapy for me. I felt like I was reading out of the pages of my heart. Like, it was just a very interesting time in my life, you know, so. Yes, and one in which I will be forever grateful to. But the sexual component of the show was also interesting. And, you know, I mean, you know how it is when you do a project, you're never thinking, it's going to be this. You don't go into it going, oh, my God, this is going to be the biggest thing ever. Your responsibility is to the character. You want to tell the highest degree of truth for the story. And you're there to tell a story. Whether or not it resonates with people is beyond your control. And so when the show came out and I kind of got put on this platform for unhappily married women or women who didn't know how to use their voice. And I was just flooded with women who were like, how did you have the courage to leave? And also, I've never had an orgasm before. How do I speak up? And I was just like, oh, my God, like, orgasms and sexuality, like, these are God given Rights, like, this isn't something that should be taboo. Like, oh, no, like, or sorted. Like, women's sexuality is not a sordid thing to talk about. Like, it's very natural and something in which we were all born with this, again, this birthright to experience pleasure to the utmost degree. So it was a little scary for me to write about it because I was like, you know, again, I was afraid of judgment. I was, you know, I have three children. You know, I was like, okay, how is this going to come across? But at the same time, for me, anytime I do feel afraid to do something, that's a signal for me to step into it. And so, like, I know I'm going to do something that is create some sort of change or conversation. And I feel like that's what we're here to do. That's what makes life fun.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

I think it's incredible. I think it's incredible. Especially, you know, when you. When you just said that thing which is so normal for all of us. Well, I have three children. Oh, my parents will read this. Oh, yeah. It's like, sure. But again, even speaking to would I want this marriage for my children.

[Sarah Shahi]

Right.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

I also think there's something, you know, when you talk about all of the women out there who've never experienced an orgasm, who've been married for, you know, five to 10 years, it's like, you.

[Sarah Shahi]

Gotta start tickling that clit. Like, get on it.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Like, but in my brain, I'm like, wait, so then all these women are experiencing their lives being used for a man's pleasure and not being allowed to participate. Like, that's vulgar to me.

[Ebay Advertisement Voice]

That's.

[Sarah Shahi]

Or not choosing to participate because they, they. They inherently are. Are holding themselves back because of their earlier programming that sex is dirty or sex is not, you know, whatever. So it's like, yeah, well, and they.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Might not be choosing. Or by the way, they might not even be being acknowledged or not participating. And I love that you wrote this book and you talk about these things with your three kids. Because don't we want all of our kids to say, hey, if I'm going to have an intimate or sexual experience, I'm going to be a full participant in it. I'm going to have agency, I'm going to consent. I'm going to enjoy myself.

[Sarah Shahi]

Exactly, exactly. Then that's what it should be. That's what I want. Exactly. I want my children to grow up feeling confident in themselves, to be in respectful relationships where desire and pleasure and sensuality is mutually exchanged. You know what I Mean, it's like that those are the good things in life.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. They're going to have healthy, intimate relationships in their adulthood. Conversations about sexuality and intimacy cannot be tampons in a manila envelope. It just cannot be that.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah, I did not want that. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's interesting. And also it's like, you know, being single now, I've, I've been learning about myself in a different way and in terms of, like, how I carry myself through the world. And I think before not saying that this was as a result of any of my partners putting this on me, but I think I was, I didn't, I, I'm an Aries rising. Okay. And if you know anything about astrology, like, Aries is a fire sign. And so I like to have a little wink and mischief in my eyes wherever I go. Like, it doesn't mean that I want to somebody. It doesn't mean that I'm necessarily like, putting the vibes out there for them. I could flirt with, I could flirt with the wall the same way that I could flirt with the female or male barista at Starbucks. You know what I mean? So it's like there is no, it's me. It's the, it's actually for you. It's my sacred fire. It's in, it's just me. And in my relationships for the last 23 years, I've kind of put, I've suppressed that a bit because I don't want to come across as disrespectful and I don't want to, you know, send the wrong signals and I don't want to whatever. And so it's like I have held myself back a little bit and, or a lot. And I, I, I have now realized, like, oh, no, this is kind of, this is who I am and, you know, the next and how I take up space in the world. And you know, the thing about sexuality and sensuality, it doesn't even have to be sexual, like, sensuality and especially women femininity. This is how I take up space, you know, this is how, like, I look at myself in the mornings and I like giving myself a little wink, you know, it's like, it's, it's, it's playful, it's, it's. And it's what I feel really good doing, you know, and yeah, it's, it's. And that, and that landscape can change each day. Like what sensuality looks like, what femininity looks like. Like, that can change day to day. There are many different ways and types to be feminine. I wrote a substack article about this one time because it's like there's so much judgment about, like, what a woman looks like or should look like and whether someone is, you know, wearing scantily clad clothing. Great, amazing. Like, good for them. Or if somebody wants to be head to toe, like Tom the tomboy look, Great, good for them. Like, it's just, it's all equal. There is no judgment on anything. So being able to be single in this time has allowed me to explore parts of myself that I have quieted for a long time. And I'm excited about whatever my next relationship looks like because I feel like I'm actually going to be able to enter it as the fullest, you know, version of myself. The soft and the fire, you know, and I wouldn't have never been able to do that had I not been single.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Mm, I love that. It's beautiful. And it, and it feels very cool again when things come at the right moment that you're having this exact experience when this book is being born out into the world.

[Sarah Shahi]

Yeah.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

Like, it doesn't feel coincidental to me.

[Sarah Shahi]

Well, what's crazy is, like, when I wrote the book, I was in a relationship and the book has come out when I'm not in a relationship. So it's like I really am the person who is putting her money where her mouth is and like, speaking from experience. And I am the reader. So, yeah, it's interesting.

[Sophia (Podcast Host)]

I am having the best time talking with Sarah Shahi today. Join us for part two.

[Xolair Advertisement Voice]

Xolair omalizumab is proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens. Xolair 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people 1 year of age and older. To reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods while taking Xolair, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to Xolair. Xolair may cause a severe life threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you have ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Xolair should not be used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions including anaphylaxis. Xolair is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions including anaphylaxis while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effects such as cancer, fever, muscle aches, and rash, parasitic infection or heart and circulation problems have been reported. Please see xolair.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about Xolair this is an advertisement for Xolair paid for by Genentech and Novartis.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

This is Dr. Laurie Santos from the Happiness Lab. As a happiness expert, I know that mindfulness isn't just about meditation, it's also being present in our choices. And that's why I choose Dietz and Watson. They're family owned and operated and they never cut corners. Ever. They're totally transparent about what goes into their food and what doesn't and that's why their meats and cheeses taste so great. I use their chicken sausage with no added hormones in my family recipes With Dietz Watson I can be mindful about my meals and my choices. Visit dietzandwatson.com therightway to learn more about the Dietzsche difference. That's dietzenwatson.com the right way Janice Torres.

[Sarah Shahi]

Here and I'm Austin Hankwitz. We host the podcast Mind the Business Small Business Success Stories produced by Ruby.

[Xolair Advertisement Voice]

Studio in partnership with Intuit QuickBooks.

[Sarah Shahi]

We're back for season four to talk to some incredible small business owners.

[Xolair Advertisement Voice]

The big thing about working at tech is that it's ever evolving, ever changing. Everyone's a rookie, that's how fast the industry is changing. So what I'm really excited about is to be part of that change.

[Sarah Shahi]

So listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple.

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Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Sarah Shahi]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.