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- [00:00]
Host
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:02]
Ashlee (Host)
Guaranteed Human.
- [00:05]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
If you want your guests to ask, wait, where is this from? Tea Forte is the perfect place to start. Known for their signature pyramid tea infusers topped with the iconic leaf, Tea Forte delivers premium blends served in luxury hotels and restaurants around the world. Beyond the tea itself, the beautifully designed packaging, curated gift sets and tea chests make every day feel elevated. From brunches to dinner parties, birthdays to thank you gifts. T forte turns everyday hosting and gifting into something effortlessly refined, memorable and genuinely special. Shop now@tforte.com or on Amazon.
- [00:44]
Boem is a boutique fashion brand that curates effortlessly feminine trend forward clothing for women who want to feel confident, stylish and comfortable without compromising quality or affordability. With boem, you'll find outfits that work for every plan on your calendar from day to night. Simple styling, elevated results and looks you'll reach for again and again and again. Their designs are made to last and won't break the bank. Shop now@bome.com that's b o h m
- [01:18]
Ashlee (Host)
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Xolair Omalizumab is proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens. Xolair 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people 1 year of age and older. To reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods while taking Xolair, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to Xolair. Xolair may cause a severe life threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you have ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Xolair should not be used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions including anaphylaxis. Xolair is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions including anaphylaxis while avoiding food allergens, serious side effects such as cancer, fever, muscle aches and rash, parasitic infection or heart and circulation problems have been reported. Please see xolair.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about Xolair. This is an advertisement for Xolair paid for by Genentech and Novartis.
- [03:02]
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Host
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Sponsor/Ad Voice
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Host
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- [03:30]
Ashlee (Host)
at america250.org LA hey everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome back to Work in Progress, friends. I am so excited today to sit down with a couple that I frankly adore. I have such a good time watching them live out their extraordinary dreams and my goodness, they have been doing that for quite a time. Today we're sitting down with Shawn Johnson and Andrew East. You know Sean from winning Olympic gold and Andrew from competing at the very highest level of professional football, the NFL. But what inspires me about the two of them is that their defining moments weren't just back on the balance beam or out on the football field. They took place in their quiet daily routines. They've taken place in the life they found beyond sport, in the marriage they've built between themselves, in the family that they have with their three children. And they really have come to share with the world what they know and what we can all do on ordinary days that can be just as meaningful as once in a lifetime milestones. The way they've built their life beyond sport, growing a digital platform, navigating a long distance relationship and career pivots and all the rest of it in real time is something that I love to observe. And I know I'm not alone because everyone always asks them what their secret is to their joyful partnership and the way that they live their life. What I appreciate about Sean and Andrew is that they're the first to admit that it takes a lot of work to make it look as effortless as it seems. And now they are putting all of that work down on the page in their new book, Courage to Commit, which is out now. Let's talk all about it with Shawn Johnson and Andrew East. Sean Andrew, I'm so happy to have you on the podcast today.
- [05:56]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
How are you both Great.
- [05:58]
Shawn Johnson
Thank you so much for having us.
- [05:59]
Andrew East
We're honored to be here.
- [06:00]
Shawn Johnson
Yeah.
- [06:01]
Ashlee (Host)
Well, I'm so happy you're here, and congrats on all the exciting updates and big news in the family.
- [06:08]
Shawn Johnson
Thank you. Thank you. Also, didn't mind my husband, who's dripping sweat.
- [06:14]
Andrew East
I am sweating.
- [06:15]
Shawn Johnson
I was like, you're boring. He just biked our kids to school and then, like, beelined it here.
- [06:21]
Andrew East
90 degrees here in Nashville. So still sweating.
- [06:24]
Ashlee (Host)
Oh, my goodness. How do you bike them all? Are they big enough to ride bikes, or is this, like, a tow situation?
- [06:32]
Andrew East
Okay, so my dad rode us to school when we were young. We had a tandem bike, and we would do, like, time trials with me and my other brothers, ride the fastest. But now we have this set up. Uh, it's a. It's a Radio Flyer bike. So they have, like, a little bench seat on the back, and it's electric.
- [06:48]
Shawn Johnson
Like a kit that they sit in.
- [06:50]
Andrew East
Yeah, yeah. So it's pretty fun.
- [06:51]
Shawn Johnson
And he takes a speaker with them, and they're, like, blasting music, and that is so cute. Yeah.
- [07:00]
Ashlee (Host)
Okay. I want to hear more about both of your childhoods. Sean, I know you grew up in Iowa. Andrew, I know you grew up in Indiana. What were you guys up to when you were little kids when you were 8 or 9?
- [07:14]
Shawn Johnson
Honestly, I had a very normal childhood. It sounds crazy to say, because I was so young when I competed, but around, like, eight, nine, I went to public school. I did after school play dates with all of my friends. I lived on a cul de sac, and it was kind of just an Iowa Midwest thing. But everybody in the neighborhood would always have their garage doors open, and their garage doors were, like, an extension of their house living situation. So every garage had, like, a TV and a couch. Sounds very strange, but all the parents would always, like, sit in their garages, and all the kids would just run wild through the neighborhood. So I spent all my time just, like, playing in our cul de sac and truly just being a kid outside of. I did probably three or four days a week of gymnastics training, but that was just, like, my after school activity that I did. Like, you know, people would run track or do something else, and I did gymnastics.
- [08:09]
Andrew East
Yeah.
- [08:09]
Ashlee (Host)
How old were you when you started?
- [08:12]
Shawn Johnson
I started when I was three.
- [08:13]
Ashlee (Host)
You were three?
- [08:14]
Shawn Johnson
Just like any other little kid would, though. Like, I did Mommy and Me classes, like, recreational classes. It was never anything serious until I made. I made the USA National Team at 12.
- [08:25]
Ashlee (Host)
Yeah.
- [08:25]
Shawn Johnson
So that feels a little abnormal.
- [08:28]
Ashlee (Host)
Yeah.
- [08:29]
Shawn Johnson
But it felt very normal to me. My Parents worked really hard to have a very balanced up bringing that I was very grateful for.
- [08:38]
Andrew East
Yeah.
- [08:38]
Ashlee (Host)
And did you start playing sports really young too?
- [08:42]
Andrew East
So, yeah. While Sean was an only child, I was a middle of five kids and all of us did all the sports my parents had us in basketball, baseball, football, swimming, all this stuff. And we would do it together, which was really fun. We did boy scouts growing up and we'd take camping trips and go climb mountains, but we just did a bunch of group activities and a bunch of family activities and it was so fun. I feel like, you know, still to this day, my brothers and I have like this healthy sense of competition. We like to do everything together. We like to see what the other's up to. We learn from each other. And yeah, it was, it was a rowdy household, but it's fun.
- [09:17]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Still is.
- [09:19]
Ashlee (Host)
Yeah. I'm like one of five. Feels like it does something that never quite goes away, right?
- [09:26]
Shawn Johnson
Never does.
- [09:27]
Ashlee (Host)
We have, I agree, 11.
- [09:28]
Shawn Johnson
11 or 12 now. Well, 11 grandchildren. Not us, but like our children's generation.
- [09:35]
Ashlee (Host)
Yeah.
- [09:36]
Shawn Johnson
There's 11 of them under the age of eight. And if, if it's not chaos with you and your siblings, it's now chaos with all of like the, the cousins. It's so much fun.
- [09:46]
Ashlee (Host)
That is so cool. I'm curious. It's. It's interesting to hear you say, Sean, that, that the switch really came, you know, going into being around 12. Like, I know nothing about this. To be clear, you guys, like, I, I grew up playing sports, but also very clearly, I'm like, I'm not tall enough to play any of the sports I really liked. I'm not petite enough to have ever been a gymnast. I have terrible asthma. Like, it just was like, not in the cards for me. But it's crazy, you know, to love someone who's done some of what you've done. Like, it's hard for me to wrap my head around what it really means to go to the Olympics. And then you went like, literally in the most impressive way in the world. But when you get recruited so young, you know, like, like my partner was playing up on the U15 team by the time she was 12. And it's like, there's so much, I think that is incredible about that, incredible about discipline and the ways that you learn these unbelievable skills. And it's sort of insane to think about the level you were competing at, the number of people you were competing in front of, the pressure. Did it, did it dawn on you then, or did it just still feel fun at 12.
- [11:16]
Shawn Johnson
It honestly still felt fun. I was very, very blessed to have a coach who. He put an emphasis on the fun the whole time. I feel like the only time it wasn't fun was when I was with a national team, and it became very serious. But he really tried to balance those scales my whole career, which I was very grateful for. But for me, kind of like anybody would do a hobby or a sport as a child, whether you're singing or, you know, playing violin or whatever it was, I just kind of went through the natural progression. I wasn't skipping levels. I wasn't, like, exponentially better. I was just kind of going through the system at a pretty steady pace. And by the time I kind of came up for air and looked around, I was like, oh, I happen to be in the highest level. You know, it didn't ever feel like pressure or like a job until I was in the national team setting, where they weren't as much about fun. They were more about your job.
- [12:24]
Ashlee (Host)
Yeah, I've heard that.
- [12:26]
Shawn Johnson
So, yeah. So I was always, like, balancing that by the time I got to the professional level. But I truly was surrounded by people who wanted me to be a kid for the most part. Mm. And I was just playing. I remember playing at the Olympics.
- [12:42]
Ashlee (Host)
Wow.
- [12:42]
Shawn Johnson
Truly.
- [12:43]
Ashlee (Host)
Wow. That's such a trip. And what an interesting thing, too, in this phase of, you know, everybody having young kids, right. You realize that the way you speak to them, the container you create for them is the one they will experience. Like, even at this upper echelon of sport, you felt like you were playing. And it's because the adults in the room made sure to protect that for you.
- [13:08]
Shawn Johnson
That's where the pressure sets in. Already, as a parent, because I'm like, that's now our job. We had the pleasure of interviewing my parents not too long ago about their strategy and how they went about it. And they basically said that. They said, our job was to protect you the whole time and to make sure you were a kid, and it was appropriate. And it was, you know, not too mature and not too much pressure. And that got harder as I got farther along. But it is hard now, as parents, to say that is our job. And it's hard to now witness it with our own children when they start putting pressure on themselves for little things. It's like, how do I protect the innocence of your joy?
- [13:52]
Andrew East
It's so interesting. Now our daughter does ice skating, and she loved it. And, like, just the amount of conversations that start happening when there's like, oh, hey, we're Going to put you in the accelerated program. And as part of that, you're going to have to do off ice training. And the off ice training for you as a five year old is going to be cone drills and push ups and all this stuff. And then like, you get one step into this and you understand, oh my gosh, wait, all she wants to do is ice skate, you know, like all she wants to do. She doesn't care about the accelerated program. And so kudos to Sean's parents, honestly, for like understanding that despite conversations of agents or sponsors or whatever, like they kind of just did insulate Sean. It seemed really well from all of those kind of extracurriculars or the, the, you know, the nonsense besides gymnastics.
- [14:43]
Ashlee (Host)
Yeah, that's amazing. I mean, it's crazy to think that five or six year olds have somebody analyzing, you know, their squat thrust so they can get a better vertical. You're like, they are babies.
- [14:53]
Andrew East
Yeah.
- [14:54]
Ashlee (Host)
Like, they're good.
- [14:56]
Shawn Johnson
I don't know if you've experienced this yet, but like standing on the sidelines of like a three year old soccer game to hear some of the conversations, it makes me want to run through a brick wall. I'm like, you need to calm down. This is your child's like hobby, it's not yours. And it's just, it's wild to me.
- [15:20]
Ashlee (Host)
Yeah, yeah, I heard a friend of mine, my, my godson's already in soccer and he is so sweet and like, oh my goodness, every once in a while, you know, you have that moment where you're like, run. No, the other way.
- [15:33]
Shawn Johnson
That's the other team.
- [15:36]
Ashlee (Host)
And, and he thinks it's like so cool that is that, you know, his godmother's gal, he's always like, auntie Ash, Auntie Ash give me tips. And she's like, baby boy, I have to like be in person with you to put you through some drills, you know, and it's like, I can't imagine being, you know, watching my best friend as his mom or being a family figure in his life, like not laughing at that, taking that so seriously. And I don't know, you're right. I, sometimes I go to his practices and I hear the way parents are talking and I have to bite my tongue because, like, you know, again, not the athlete. I really went into the academics. Part of me wants to be like, do you know the statistical probability of your kid making it, like to a D1 college, let alone the pros, it's essentially zero. Leave him alone. He's five. But I, I don't I keep, I keep those thoughts on the inside.
- [16:29]
Shawn Johnson
No, please don't keep those thoughts in. You should share those, scream those out. Because that's what we believe too.
- [16:36]
Ashlee (Host)
Yeah.
- [16:36]
Shawn Johnson
It's literally lightning striking. And yeah, I, I don't like to like, minimize people's achievements or even my own, but it truly is, it's luck. You cannot make it happen. And if you try to make it happen, I think your probability is actually going to go even farther down because kids are going to like fall out of love with it and not like it and they're probably going to get injured and they're probably going to change hobbies and it's just like the only thing that you need to do is love them and celebrate them.
- [17:04]
Ashlee (Host)
Yeah.
- [17:04]
Shawn Johnson
And then let the rest do it.
- [17:07]
Ashlee (Host)
Yeah. Let them have fun. Let them score a goal for the other team. It's not that serious.
- [17:11]
Shawn Johnson
It's fine. You know.
- [17:12]
Ashlee (Host)
Yeah, I'm wondering too though, because you say, you know, the probability is so low and then the giggle is, you two both reached these insane heights in your career. I mean, you won Olympic gold. Andrew, you were in the NFL. Like, what was it like for you? Because I know for girls who grow up in sport, there is the incredible side of confidence, team building, leadership. I mean, 84% of women who sit in C suites in the corporate world played high school or collegiate sports. And then there's also, and I'm sure we'll get to this, the really hard side of the body consciousness and all of that. And then I feel like on the flip side, for guys, it's very social, communal, cool. Like if you play football and we've all seen Friday Night Lights, you know, like, it's this, it's this sort of rare air space that seems really fun and really popular, but also, I imagine is really tough. What was it like for you to kind of go from having a childhood hobby with your brothers to realizing this was something else?
- [18:28]
Host
Wow.
- [18:28]
Andrew East
You just sparked a lot of thoughts on how you phrase that. I mean, it kind of goes in phases a little bit and depending on like, you know, how how you're performing sometimes affects how you feel about the sport. Depending on the team that you're on and the guys in the locker room kind of can, can, can, you know, change that. But I did. I loved football and that's all I wanted to do. My dad played college football or Purdue, and I, like, I just grew up wearing his old helmet and I honestly loved football all the way through college. And then I started getting attention from NFL scouts. And I was like, sweet, okay, I get it. I can do this for the next 15 years of my life. And that would be a dream. Like, I was just happy to make it to college. That's all I wanted to do as a little kid, was play college football. But now we have this NFL opportunity. And then very quickly, in that situation, like, I again did all the activities growing up, so I never had to focus just solely on football, you know? And then in college, you're doing. You're doing it academics, you're doing sports, you have the social life, you have all the clubs and whatever. So it's not all football, but then in the pros, it was like this singular thing that consumes your entire life. And I didn't know anybody else. I started on the Kansas City Chiefs, and there I am in Kansas City, didn't know a soul. And so, like, I'd only spend time with the football teammates. I'd only go to the facility, wouldn't go anywhere else. And you're just kind of, like, ruminating on this. And then it was like, it. It became almost like a really unhealthy part obsession, part, like, torment of, like, man, I want something else to. To, like, distract me almost.
- [20:12]
Ashlee (Host)
Yeah.
- [20:12]
Andrew East
So it was complicated. And I remember, like, you know, at points, I was super confident I'd be dabbing everybody up in the facility. But then with. With certain teams in the NFL, when you're just trying to make it, like, oh, man, I don't want to get cut. I hope today's not my day to get cut. Like, you start having these thoughts. And so I couldn't even. I went from being the guy who was joking around to. I couldn't even make eye contact because I was so, I don't know, like, nervous or anxious or uncertain. So it kind of goes ebbs and flows, and then you kind of just kind of find that pocket of like, okay, you know what? I've done everything I can to put myself in the best position. Am I going to enjoy this or not? Like, towards the end of my career, I started realizing this is like, once in a lifetime, you know, Like, I'm going to only be in this locker room for so many years, maybe only a few more days. Who knows? But I might as well just, like, have a good time and, like, enjoy it. And that's. That kind of opens up the performance side of things, too. It kind of, like, it pulls you out of that rumination. So complicated, to say the least. But. But I definitely learned a lot.
- [21:16]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
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- [21:20]
Ashlee (Host)
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- [23:01]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
If you want your guests to ask, wait, where is this from? Tea Forte is the perfect place to start. Known for their signature pyramid tea infusers topped with the iconic leaf, Tea Forte delivers premium blends served in luxury hotels and restaurants around the world. Beyond the tea itself, the beautifully designed packaging, curated gift sets and tea chests make every day feel elevated. From brunches to dinner parties, birthdays to thank you gifts, T forte turns everyday hosting and gifting into something effortlessly refined, memorable and genuinely special. Shop now@teaforte.com or on Amazon.
- [23:40]
Bome is a boutique fashion brand that curates effortlessly feminine trend forward clothing for women who want to feel confident, stylish and comfortable without compromising quality or affordability. With boam, you'll find outfits that work for every plan on your calendar from day to night. Simple styling, elevated results and looks you'll reach for again and again and again. Their designs are made to last and won't break the bank. Shop now@bome.com that's b o h m
- [24:15]
Ashlee (Host)
e.com oh friends, I'm just so happy that it's getting warm out. It makes me want to open up all the windows, clean out the house, clean out my pantry, get outside and touch some grass. I think we should all change up our routines and a refresh can be as simple as amplifying your look with clean beauty from Thrive Cosmetics.
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Ashlee (Host)
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Ashlee (Host)
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Ashlee (Host)
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Ashlee (Host)
C A U S E M E t I c s.com progress Xolair Omalizumab
- [25:40]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
is proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens. Xolair 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people 1 year of age and older. To reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods while taking Xolair, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic to. Don't use if you are allergic to Xolair. Xolair may cause a severe life threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you have ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Xolair should not be used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions including anaphylaxis. Xolair is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions including anaphylaxis while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effects such as cancer, fever, muscle aches and rash, parasitic infection, or heart and circulation problems have been reported. Please see xolair.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about Xolair. This is an advertisement for Xolair, paid for by Genentech and Novartis.
- [26:53]
Ashlee (Host)
It's so interesting the way you put that, because I was just actually writing about this when I was in school, and I started doing theater, which I thought I would hate. I was like, I play volleyball. I don't do that. Like the theater girls. Yeah, my friend does that. We are. We're not the same.
- [27:11]
Andrew East
Yeah.
- [27:12]
Ashlee (Host)
You know, she was like a show tune singing, like, adorable human. Who, by the way, still is like, you know, now we've been friends for 30 years, but I didn't know that it was something I would love. And then that became my extracurricular. You know, started in middle school, went through high school. By my senior year, I was so serious about it. And then I went to college to get a bfa, a Bachelor of Fine Arts in theater. And one of those things where you, you know, you have to audition. It's like. It's like a team tryout.
- [27:42]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
It's so scary.
- [27:43]
Ashlee (Host)
And they, you know, they admit 14 people a year.
- [27:46]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Mama.
- [27:47]
Shawn Johnson
And.
- [27:47]
Ashlee (Host)
And I got in and I was like, oh, my God, I've made it. You know, this is my next step. I'm moving through the system. And I got into that program and I had the experience you're talking about, Andrew. I feel like it made me a basket case.
- [28:03]
Andrew East
Yeah.
- [28:04]
Ashlee (Host)
Because it. All I did was eat, breathe, and sleep theater. All I did was focus on scripts. All I did was get asked every decision I'd make. Like, in a scene, testing something out. Well, why'd you make that choice?
- [28:18]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yeah, what was the motivation here?
- [28:20]
Ashlee (Host)
And it's not even that the questions were bad. They could have been opening a compliment. But what it did was make me so self conscious. And I was like, well, I don't know why I may. I mean, it just felt, you know, and I was reacting to this person, and it sort of seemed like we could. The scene's a fight, but what if they started laughing in the middle? Like, isn't that interesting? And no matter what felt natural to me, I worried that I was doing the wrong thing. And what you illuminated for me was that once you've made it on the college team or the pro team or whatever, everyone thinks you've made it. Nobody says, hey, how are you doing? Hey, do you need any support? And what I realized I had to do my second year of college, I was like, I can't Handle this. And I transferred out of that major. I was keeping a theater minor, but I went into the journalism school. And that was the year I started booking auditions like crazy because I'd taken the pressure off.
- [29:21]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Off.
- [29:21]
Andrew East
Yeah.
- [29:22]
Ashlee (Host)
And then suddenly I was just like, oh, this is fun. Like, this is my gymnastics. This is the thing I like to do after school. And I'm actually kind of good at this. Okay.
- [29:31]
Host
And.
- [29:32]
Ashlee (Host)
And weirdly shifted something in me. It wasn't something anyone else was doing, but when it's too pressurized, the thing you love can torment you.
- [29:46]
Andrew East
Yeah. Yeah. Well said.
- [29:48]
Ashlee (Host)
It's so surreal.
- [29:50]
Shawn Johnson
I feel like you see that in everything, though. It's like if you take the joy away from it and you lose the reason why you started in the first place.
- [29:56]
Ashlee (Host)
Yeah.
- [29:56]
Shawn Johnson
And you're, like, forcing it for a different reason. Whether it's success or money or whatever, it, like you lose everything. If you can't just, like, have joy with it, then it's just a whole different ballgame.
- [30:09]
Ashlee (Host)
Yeah. How do you feel like you both chose to prioritize that? Because I think about, I don't know, rewind to like, 2012 before maybe. The world was also so insane.
- [30:25]
Shawn Johnson
Yeah.
- [30:25]
Ashlee (Host)
And you're both navigating these crazy, high pressure careers and. And I know, you know, you've. You've written about how success alone wasn't going to provide lasting fulfillment. Like, there had to be more. If you think about back then, in the height of things, how did you start to consider what your wider vision was for your futures?
- [30:50]
Shawn Johnson
These are great questions.
- [30:51]
Ashlee (Host)
Oh, thanks.
- [30:53]
Andrew East
Well, I'm curious what your perspective on this is. I feel like the deeper you get into anything, like, the longer your career is, and sports is kind of unique because it's so intense and so consuming and so kind of idolized, as is your industry. But it's like the transition out of that is super hard. And I think John struggled with it, you know, kind of by choice. She retired, and then she struggled probably for like three or four years when we were dating. And then I struggled with it by force. You know, I was bouncing around from team to team and, man, if I. If I would have had a long and steady job, I probably would have kept. But instead it kind of like made me think about other things while I was still getting opportunities in the NFL. And so I was like, oh, I should probably start assembling other parts of my life. But it's like, it's a really uncomfortable process because when you're in the moment, you don't like, I Did not feel like I had any other translating skills from football that would apply anywhere else. Like, everyone says, sports is so good. It teaches all these. All these things. And I have it and I see it now.
- [32:01]
Shawn Johnson
You were also an academic.
- [32:03]
Andrew East
Yeah.
- [32:03]
Shawn Johnson
I mean, let's acknowledge that.
- [32:07]
Andrew East
Yeah. And I. I guess, you know, if. If I would have stopped for a second, I would have realized that there was other things, but I. I did not feel like I had anything else I could offer the world except for my, you know, my football skills. And now I see that there's so many things I learned from sports, but I had to start learning. You know, I'm gonna. I love video editing. Let me learn this software. And actually, the cameras are pretty cool, too, so let me learn the hardware side of it. And then now we started a YouTube channel. And, oh, my gosh, I love this. And you start to, like, slowly kindle this other side of you, which, like, to your point, took the pressure off of that old passion. I had a football, and then. And then both were in a better spot as a result.
- [32:52]
Shawn Johnson
I will say, though, I think a huge gift we are both given was the experience of getting to the very top and not feeling fulfilled. And I think our world likes to paint this picture of if only you have X, Y and Z, more money, a title, if you climb the top, to the top of the ladder, you will be happy, you will feel fulfilled. That'll be the greatest thing of your life.
- [33:20]
Ashlee (Host)
Yeah.
- [33:21]
Shawn Johnson
And though winning a medal at the Olympics is absolutely incredible, it did not fulfill me. I had more joy training in my gym for 16 years than I did at the Olympic competition. It was very cool, but it wasn't, you know, the most fulfilling part of my life. And I think Andrew was the same way. He had so much fun in college, and then when he got to the NFL and he looked around was like, I don't know if this is what it's all talked up to be like. This isn't fun. I'm not loving this. It made us have a humility when we transitioned out, though. Difficult to say, let's kind of get rid of what the world is telling us we should go do now and actually go find something that is fun to us and humble ourselves enough to start over and be completely horrible at something, but truly fall in love with something again and learn and build, which is what we love to do. And so we started over, and it took us a while to find, like, our niche and what we liked and what we loved and what we fell in love with. But I think it was the gift of athletics and learning that the hard way that gave us the gift of where we are today.
- [34:32]
Ashlee (Host)
You know, when you say you think it's going to fulfill you, it's such a universal thing. You know, you get to the Olympics, you get to the NFL, you get on the show, you do the movie you've always wanted to do. You. You know, whatever it may be, and then you're still just sleeping in your bed at night.
- [34:56]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yeah.
- [34:57]
Ashlee (Host)
Like, gotta go to the grocery store.
- [34:59]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yeah.
- [35:00]
Ashlee (Host)
And I'm curious, actually. I. I'm not sure if I think this is what it is, but I wonder if part of it is the. The way things are covered. You know, the story, the. The news package on the Summer Olympics or, you know, the blockbuster hit for Christmas or whatever it is. You watch that stuff and you go, wow, look at what those people are doing. And it's beautiful, and it is, but it kind of looks like, to your point, the big moment, the big achievement. And then you think, oh, when I have that, I will feel fill in the blank. And then you get whatever your version is, and you're like, oh, this is super weird. Nobody told me I'd still be anxious and I'd still be, like, in a fight with my mom or whatever's going on in your world. You're like, this didn't fix me, huh? So it's like. And I. And I think the. The transition out of something, you know, I remember what it felt like, you know, to end nine seasons, 10 years on a TV show. Like, almost no actors get to do that. And I remember being so surprised because we had all been so ready to be done. We were like, this has been great, but we've literally been locked up, like, in these four sound stages since we were 21, and now we're 30. Like, talk about, you know, what you were saying.
- [36:23]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
You.
- [36:23]
Ashlee (Host)
You leave your life, you move somewhere, you know, no one. You're only insulated with your little group. And like, sure, that's great, but also, it's insane. And I remember leaving and being like, oh, this is so weird. I can't stop crying. I didn't think I was sad about this. And I realized it was both. Like, I was so happy to go home, and I was gonna miss the place that had been my home for a decade. And I think the. The intensity of sport and also the truncated amount of years you get to do it. Like, you. You are a phenom and a freak. If you make it to 38 or 40, and you know, playing a sport, right?
- [37:05]
Andrew East
Yeah.
- [37:05]
Ashlee (Host)
And. And so you kind of have to start over, but you're starting over so young. Do you think meeting each other helped you both figure out how to shift out of one world and into another one?
- [37:21]
Shawn Johnson
Absolutely. So my, like, timeline was I retired, technically, my first time, after the 2008 Olympics, I was 16 years old. And that was the absolute hardest transition for me, because for three years, from the age of 16 to 19, I had to go finish high school.
- [37:40]
Ashlee (Host)
Oh, right after the Olympics. Oh, my God.
- [37:44]
Shawn Johnson
I do. After high school, I had the world telling me I was, you know, at the top, on the top of the world, and they expected such perfection in any field. But I was also just a child, and I didn't. I needed to figure out where I was going to go to college and what I was going to do and what job I was going to go get. And that was. That was really hard for me. So hard that I ended up going back into gymnastics because I felt like that was my safe zone. I didn't necessarily want to, but in my mind, that's all I could kind of compute to be.
- [38:14]
Ashlee (Host)
I totally get that.
- [38:15]
Shawn Johnson
So I went back into gymnastics, retired a second time at 19. And then that's when we were introduced at 20, right when I was coming out of my second go round. And it 100% was the reason I made it through that transition. I remember putting such pressure on myself to be a perfectionist. And there's this interesting thing, which I'm sure you've experience, too, where, like, people don't care about you. They care about your character. They care about what they see in the headlines, and that's all they want to know about. And I remember, Andrew, it was like the first time I had met someone who actually cared about me as a human. And it was very. It took me off guard because I was like, what do you mean? You want to know what I eat for breakfast? Like, as a human and not gymnast? And do you want to know about the Olympics? And he's like, I don't care about that. I want to know you. And so he kind of got to hold my hand and walk me through that. And then once I kind of got my feet under me, and we had been dating and then married and he retired from the NFL, it was almost like I could return the favor. I could hold his hand through it and say, you got me through mine. Now let me be your anchor, and let's walk through this together. But I think it just gives you that emotional support that you need, when it seems like everything is up in the air, to give you a foundation to lean back on.
- [39:36]
Ashlee (Host)
Yes, I know that feeling.
- [39:38]
Andrew East
It's also crazy. I mean, the echo chamber that can happen in your own brain of like, I don't know, just the stories you can start telling yourself that just amplify and you're like. To have someone else there who's like, whoa, Just. Yeah, hold on a second. Just. That's not the way I see it. Nor is it reality. And so it just chill out for a second. It's really interesting.
- [39:58]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
My.
- [39:58]
Shawn Johnson
My favorite story, though, it was a low point, so I say this humorously now because we've gotten through it, but my favorite point was Andrew was kind of going through his exit of the NFL and having, like, an identity crisis where it's like, what am I to the world and what am I to myself now? And you have a civil engineering undergrad degree from Vanderbilt. You have an MBA from Vanderbilt, graduated with honors, all these things. And he signed up to be an Uber driver. And he's like, well, this is all I. This is all I have to give the world anymore.
- [40:29]
Andrew East
I would still do it.
- [40:30]
Shawn Johnson
I know you would still do it and you'd be great, and an Uber driver is a wonderful job. But it was just. I was sitting there as his wife and I was like, okay, this is. Okay, we're gonna. You know, you can be an Uber driver if you would like, if that fulfills you. But just know that's not all you have.
- [40:47]
Andrew East
Yeah.
- [40:48]
Ashlee (Host)
Yeah.
- [40:49]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
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Ashlee (Host)
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Ashlee (Host)
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Ashlee (Host)
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Ashlee (Host)
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Ashlee (Host)
and even a summer suit.
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Ashlee (Host)
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E.com Xolair Omalizumab is proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens. Xolair 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people 1 year of age and older to reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods while taking Xolair. You should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to Xolair. Xolair may cause a severe life threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you have ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Xolair should not be used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions including anaphylaxis. Xolair is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions including anaphylaxis while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effect effects such as cancer, fever, muscle aches and rash, parasitic infection, or heart and circulation problems have been reported. Please see xolair.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about Xolair this is an advertisement for Xolair paid for by Genentech and Novartis Choices Aren't they great?
- [45:35]
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- [46:11]
Ashlee (Host)
It's kind of arresting though.
- [46:13]
Shawn Johnson
Yeah.
- [46:14]
Ashlee (Host)
When, when you have anything that happens to you that feels, you know, like an explosion, like everything's been sort of flattened, finding your way out of that is hard. And I think in whatever way that happens, like it can really be the thing that saves you or illuminates something for you or to your point, quiets those voices. And I think there's an added layer again, that you're not supposed to talk about if you've made it, because you should just be grateful and shut up. But there is the added pressure of an entire digital world talking about you.
- [47:02]
Shawn Johnson
Yeah.
- [47:04]
Ashlee (Host)
And criticizing you and judging you and assuming they know things about you. And it can break you. And I think having someone else with you who knows what that is, is also such a it can offer you so much salvation because you do have someone to say, I know that's not true about you. I know this is crazy. And so I'd imagine that you have like having that version in your own home where you get to be like, hey, remember who you Are. Remember what is true about you. Remember how great you are, qualified, you are, talented. You are. And if you need a break to, like, have a mentib and drive around downtown, that's also okay. I love you. Like, that's. That's a game changer because it. It helps stop you from getting swallowed by a machine that is so much bigger than any one person.
- [48:01]
Shawn Johnson
We interviewed someone who. And it has just always stayed with me years ago, who said, like, the human heart was not meant to digest all these voices that we have access to anymore. And I remember him speaking on, make sure the voices that you truly let in are trusted and small, like a small circle. And I feel like we try really hard to do that. We were both having mental breakdowns last week. It's like, it was like, I need you to speak truth into me, and you speak truth about and back. And it's just. It is. There's so. It's. The world is so loud now.
- [48:37]
Ashlee (Host)
Yeah.
- [48:37]
Shawn Johnson
And it's really hard to turn it off.
- [48:39]
Ashlee (Host)
Yeah.
- [48:40]
Shawn Johnson
And you have to be so conscious about who has the most volume. And I think we all struggle with this. It's an ebb and flow of, well, Instagram voices got a little too loud for me today, and I'm about to go lock myself in a room, and I need someone to truly just, like, tell me what. Which way's up?
- [49:05]
Andrew East
And, yeah, it's interesting because it goes both ways, you know, and we. We write in our book about mentorship and, like, having someone who is a trusted voice who is, like, a little further down the path than you are, wherever you want to be in life. Like, hey, this is the type of family life I want to have. Like, and that's. This person is my role model in that. Because they have, you know, whatever kids or the family that you kind of envision wanting. And it's like, you know, it's almost. You can find any opinion you want online, and it's like, seeking you will find. You know, if I want someone to hype me up, I can go find someone and, like, go like, yeah, this person thinks I'm awesome. And that's. That can almost be equally as unhealthy as someone finding the voice of, dang, I am a trash football player. I lost that game. And you can, like, be unhealthy on both sides where you don't necessarily just want yes men in your life. You don't just want people who are cynics and skeptics. It's like, you want someone who's lovingly honest. And it's like, hey, Andrew, I think it's probably time that, like, you. You consider other things in football, and here's why. I've known you for 20 years. I've seen your career. I've been a part of all these conversations, and you've told me about what coaches are saying, their feedback, and the scouts aren't calling as much, and that is such a different thing than Andrew, the tweet that you get online. Andrew never plays football ever again. You're terrible. That just doesn't hit the same as someone who actually intimately knows the situation. So I think it's finding that fine balance of loving honesty.
- [50:44]
Ashlee (Host)
Yeah. It's like you have to. You have to figure out how to build your own filter out of that huge funnel that we were not meant to ever know. And that's. I think that's kind of a task for our peer group as well. Like, nobody wrote the handbook for this before us because it didn't exist. And so we. We kind of have to figure it out together. And I think when you. When you are with, you know, your right person and you have a good mirror, and then you have more of those good mirrors in your extended circle, your. Your friendships, like, that's what helps you start to do that.
- [51:22]
Andrew East
Yeah.
- [51:23]
Ashlee (Host)
And I imagine, because I know you guys celebrate 10 years of marriage this year. Congrats.
- [51:30]
Shawn Johnson
Thanks.
- [51:31]
Ashlee (Host)
You know, being married for a decade, having three kids, like, you've really been through it enough to have, I would think, kind of like a routine for how you do things. How do you feel like parenthood maybe made you even better at that stuff? Like, because it can be hard to be nice to yourself, but you want to be nice to your. You. Oh, you want to be the nicest person in the world for your kids, you know?
- [51:58]
Shawn Johnson
Yeah. I feel like your spouse. Partner, I mean, is like the. The best first mirror relationship that you get where it can be very humbling when you have someone so trusted. Be like, you're not being very nice right now. And it's like, I think you're probably. You're a mirror, so you're probably. I should probably listen to that. You know, and so I think with us having. We were married how many years before Drew? 3. 4.
- [52:29]
Andrew East
3.
- [52:29]
Shawn Johnson
3. Having been married three years before we had our first kid, that was, you know, an ebb and flow that you really have to get used to and have to. You have to find trust there and humility. But then you take it up a notch for the child because you want to Give them the world. You want to be the best version of yourself.
- [52:47]
Ashlee (Host)
Yeah.
- [52:48]
Shawn Johnson
And it is so difficult being a parent. It's so beautiful. And I don't mean that in a bad way of being difficult. It's just difficult. You raising humans is not easy. And to see their reflection of you is so pure and there's no judgment and there's no, there's no, like, there's no jadedness to them yet. So anything that they say to you, like, mommy, are you having a hard day? It's kind of like, oh, wow, I need. Why do you think that? Like, what am I doing? And it's, it's just made you. It's made us way more selfless and way more self reflective of what our values are and what we spend time doing and how we are reflecting that to our children and what we're teaching them. And they already have so many voices and we are the loudest ones, thankfully right now.
- [53:47]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yeah.
- [53:47]
Shawn Johnson
But trying to teach them their filters already for life is, is terrifying. And we have to make sure we have ours figured out, which we don't. We're getting better at it. It's just, it's a very humbling experience.
- [54:01]
Ashlee (Host)
I think it's also so interesting because you get to kind of relive your own childhood in ways.
- [54:07]
Shawn Johnson
Yeah.
- [54:08]
Ashlee (Host)
And go, oh, I have, I have a wound there. Or oh my God, I was made for this moment. Like, this is my area of expertise. And it's, it's so beautiful because you learn all this stuff. I don't think you'd learn otherwise if you didn't have that little person who is this pure thing mirroring at you. And, and to just go back to the beginning of your point. Yes, it is the most gorgeous thing and it is so hard. And my friends and I are like any, any like Mom Fluencer, dad fluencer, who just makes it look easy. You're a traitor.
- [54:51]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
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- [54:52]
Ashlee (Host)
You're a liar. Like you. We have got to be able to, to say this is an absolute miracle. And also like, what are you doing to get through this crazy phase or this, you know, struggle development moment? Like, and I think the more we get to normalize that stuff, the better for all the parents out there. So both.
- [55:16]
Shawn Johnson
And I think there's something so beautiful about. And pure about children and our world that's so just crazy right now. It seems like we can all agree we want to raise good humans and we want to protect the pureness in children. So I feel like kind of like you were saying it's like all the chaos quiets when you have a child around because you're like, I want to protect you and I want to love you and I want to do my best. And so all of us parents coming together, being like, how do we do this? Because we all want the best for kids.
- [55:50]
Ashlee (Host)
Yeah. Well, I think most of us, I think it's been a pretty rough time in the world to realize not everybody does.
- [55:57]
Shawn Johnson
Yeah.
- [55:57]
Ashlee (Host)
But my hope actually is that the amount of us who as like, as we spoke about earlier, would literally run into moving traffic for our children, I hope we quiet all the other noise and simply focus on how we're going to reorganize the world for them. Because there are some people who don't have that.
- [56:21]
Shawn Johnson
Yeah.
- [56:21]
Ashlee (Host)
As their core value. And like, those are people I wish I could pack into a cannon and shoot out into space. I'm like, you should be voted off the island. And I mean the island of Earth.
- [56:30]
Shawn Johnson
Absolutely.
- [56:31]
Ashlee (Host)
The last couple years have sort of broken my faith in humanity and also made me be like, if the moms were in charge, this shit would be fixed by lunch.
- [56:40]
Shawn Johnson
Yeah. You know, they would live on Mars. They would just live on Mars.
- [56:44]
Ashlee (Host)
Exactly. Exactly. I am enjoying this conversation with Sean and Andrew so much and I hope you are as well. Tune back in for the next special bonus episode where we dive into all the specifics of their incredible new book, Courage to Commit. See you soon.
- [57:19]
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- [58:32]
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E.com Xolair Omalizumab is proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens. Xolair 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people 1 year of age and older to reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods While taking Xolair, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to Xolair. Xolair may cause a severe life threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you have ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Xolair should not be used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions including anaphylaxis. Xolair is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions including anaphylaxis while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effects such as cancer, fever, muscle aches and rash, parasitic infection or heart and circulation problems have been reported. Please see xolair.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about Xolair this is an advertisement for Xolair paid for by Genentech and Novartis this July 4th.
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Ashlee (Host)
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