Tan France

Summary

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Work in Progress with Sophia Bush

Episode Summary: Tan France (May 27, 2026)

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Episode Overview

Sophia Bush sits down with renowned fashion expert and TV host Tan France for a heartfelt, wide-ranging conversation charting a decade of Queer Eye, the power of self-expression, creative risk-taking, identity, and what it means to be both a “masterpiece” and a “work in progress.” With trademark warmth and humor, Tan reflects on growing up queer and Pakistani in England, the emotional weight of representation in media, and his recent adventures—including acting, producing, and raising his young children. The conversation celebrates vulnerability, empathy, and trying new things, while also delving into challenging topics like code-switching, otherness, and why inclusive storytelling matters.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reconnecting and Emotional Duality (04:53–08:13)

• Tan and Sophia reflect on their last meeting, laughing over how emotional their brunch became—a testament to Tan's inadvertent ability to bring people to tears through empathy and candid conversation.
• Quote: “Anyone who knows me knows I’m a playful person. I’m a clown ... But somehow, inevitably, during most hangouts, we have a tip or moment.” — Tan (05:53)

2. Empathy, Creativity, and Childhood Reflections (07:19–10:31)

• On why artists tend to be more empathetic, both agree that creative people are often deeply in touch with their emotions, which opens the door to vulnerability and meaningful connection.
• Sophia asks Tan to reflect on his childhood: Were his defining characteristics—the playfulness and compassion—present early on?
• Tan describes being the caretaker among his siblings, especially attentive to the well-being of his mother and sister, highlighting how these qualities persist in adulthood.

3. Navigating Identity and Otherness (10:31–16:51)

• Tan contextualizes his childhood as a queer Pakistani Muslim kid in a majority-white town north of London: “When you are part of a very, very small minority group in a town that is very much the same, you have to grow up really quickly because you are faced with the world at a much earlier time than most.” (11:14)
• He discusses code-switching, the weight of passing (racially, sexually, culturally), and the early realization of physical and emotional safety—or a lack thereof.
• Sophia relates her experience as a young girl realizing her own vulnerability in contrast to her male peers, broadening the conversation to intersectional privilege and safety.

4. The Power of Conversation: Breaking Taboos for the Next Generation (15:08–16:51)

• Both agree that open dialogue with children about difficult topics is crucial to avoid internalizing shame and isolation.
• Quote: “Because people not talking about it... you think that you are the problem. And oh my gosh, I’m the only one in the world. Quash it, figure it out. It must be my problem.” — Tan (16:23)

5. Clothing as Confidence and Self-Discovery (26:05–28:53)

• Tan shares endearing childhood anecdotes about acting out his fantasies with “net curtains” (lace curtains), and how clothing was his “confidence costume”—a private form of self-expression before he could articulate his identity.
• Quote: “I never thought that would be where my career would end up, but it makes absolute sense that this kid at 6 or 7… was changing my clothes and reworking a look. It makes sense that that person understands the power of clothing more than anyone.” — Tan (27:59)

6. Queer Eye, Transformation, and the French Tuck (28:53–37:19, 41:55–43:43)

• The meaning behind Tan’s Queer Eye role and the unique power of clothing to instantly and tangibly shift self-perception.
• He emphasizes fostering a safe, positive environment for participants (“heroes”), sometimes refusing to show footage that would embarrass them.
• On sudden fame as a queer South Asian and fears of negative backlash—Tan describes feeling “a full meltdown” inside while maintaining outward composure.
• Quote: “There hasn’t been anybody like me on TV before. So when you show this person for the first time, this person does represent a massive community. There are billions of South Asians, and there were… like three of us on TV in the US. There were no queer South Asians.” (32:58)
• On the French tuck: Tan embraces its pop culture legacy, even as younger generations move on. “Even if somebody doesn’t know my name, they know I’m the French tuck guy.” (36:00)

7. Evolving Beyond Fashion—Creative Ambitions & Risk Taking (43:43–46:54)

• Tan is eager to be known for more than fashion, explaining: “I’m so much more than that... I care about how clothes make me feel... but I don’t really care about everybody else’s fashion.” (44:08)
• He discusses declining fashion-only media offers, wanting to diversify into acting and producing—pursuing projects that challenge him.

8. Acting: Vulnerability, Growth, and New Challenges (46:54–51:07)

• Tan details his journey into acting, from daunting first classes and on-set anxiety (narrating a hilarious story about vomiting in a trash can before an audition), to the euphoria of performing in Deli Boys.
• Quote: “I went to set. It was the best week of my career ever. I’ve never been happier in any job I’ve ever had in my life. And I just thought, I want to do this for the rest of my life. And it might not work... but I’m gonna try.” (49:24)

9. The P Word: Producing for Representation & Challenging Assumptions (51:07–56:59)

• Tan produces the London stage play “The P Word”—a bold, Olivier Award-winning story about two queer Pakistanis, and the reclamation of a slur.
• He calls on his largely white audience to support diverse stories, making the case that “brown shows” are for everyone, just as he grew up loving stories centered on white characters.
• “I want to be a part of it because I want to tell the whites: watch this. You will learn something from it.” (56:40)
• The pair discuss broadening media consumption for empathy and growth.

10. Generational & Cultural Humor (62:55–68:17)

• Sophia and Tan laugh about cultural differences, TikTok humor, and Tan’s YouTube show “Honorable Gays,” which features lively comedic debates around “Am I the asshole?” Reddit stories.
• They bond over working best in ensembles—valuing play, collaboration, and building each other up.

11. Work in Progress—Tan’s Next Chapter (69:34–71:05)

• Tan opens up about family, place, and the future: “My work in progress right now is my personal life... What more joy can we get out of this life? What more adventure... What else do I want my kids to experience?” (69:34)
• He shares that his family is considering another major move after nearly two decades in Utah, seeking new adventure and possibility.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I’d rather that than people think, he’s one note, you can’t… I can’t take anything seriously.” — Tan France (06:44)
• “To be a creative person, you’ve got to be really in touch with your emotions.” — Tan France (07:51)
• “You are playing so many complicated roles at such a very early age.” — Tan France (13:12)
• “If we don’t talk about it in a normalized fashion, we avoid it because it’s sad… aren’t we just perpetuating the problem?” — Sophia Bush (14:50)
• “There hasn’t been anybody like me on TV before.” — Tan France (32:58)
• “Wear whatever makes you feel good. That’s all that matters.” — Tan France (44:08)
• “I want to do this for the rest of my life. And it might not work... but I’m gonna try.” — Tan France (49:24)
• “I want to be a part of it because I want to tell the whites: watch this. You will learn something from it.” — Tan France (56:40)
• “We’re regular people. We’re nice, we’re fun, we’re entertaining, we’re horrible, we’re mean, we’re… fully formed people. You will find something that you can connect with in any one of our shows, I promise.” — Tan France (55:57)
• “My work in progress right now is my personal life… What do I want for the future of myself, my husband, and my children?” — Tan France (69:34)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Reconnecting and Emotionality — 04:53–08:13
• Childhood, Identity, Otherness — 08:13–16:51
• Clothing, Self-Expression & Queer Eye — 26:05–37:19
• The French Tuck & Generational Fashion — 35:59–43:43
• Creative Ambitions & Risk-Taking — 43:43–46:54
• Acting Journey — 46:54–51:07
• Producing “The P Word” & Representation — 51:07–56:59
• “Honorable Gays”, Ensemble Work, Humor — 62:55–68:17
• Tan’s Current “Work in Progress” — 69:34–71:05

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Tone & Closing Reflections

This episode is at once candid, humorous, and inspiring—balancing laugh-out-loud moments with deeply personal insights. Tan’s self-effacing warmth is matched by Sophia’s open-hearted curiosity. Listeners are left with a sense of mutual admiration between two friends who agree that creativity, vulnerability, and empathy are the keys to ongoing growth—as artists, as parents, and as people.

Transcript

[Sophia]

This is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human

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[Tan France]

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[Sophia]

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[Sophia]

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[Sophia]

Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome back to Work in Progress. This week, friends, we are in for such a treat together. One of my favorite teachers, TV hosts, is here to talk about 10 Iconic Years of a major project and the projects that are coming up next. You guessed it. Today, Tan is probably one of the most recognizable figures in global pop culture, known not just for transforming style, but how people see themselves. Like, really see themselves and feel about themselves. But before Queer Eye made him a household name, he'd built a career in fashion from the ground up. And now, after Queer Eye, he's expanding his curiosity about storytelling and his reach through his own production company and continuing to shape cultural conversations around identity representation. And he's doing it with that signature warmth and humor and personal flair that we all love so much. He's also taking risks. Tan is doing things that scare him, including acting. And his passion for risk taking is leading him everywhere, from TV screens to the theater district in Lond. Tan is really just getting started, I think because his perspective is so rooted in lived experience, and his unique and authentic voice resonates well beyond even his own expectations. And that is lucky for us. Let's dive in with Tan. France. Well, hi. I'm so glad I got to meet the baby.

[Tan France]

Hi. It's so good to see you. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

[Sophia]

We're back. I can't believe how long it's been since I've seen you.

[Tan France]

The last time I saw you, we were at brunch. I don't know if you remember this. You and I went for brunch. Place on Sunset called Whatcher, Baker, something

[Sophia]

something, and the cappuccino maker. I remember.

[Tan France]

Yeah. Wonderful. Loved it. Gorgeous.

[Sophia]

You also, I. I have to, like, say for all the friends at home, I don't know what amazing, like, special magic happened that day, but truly, I remember thinking, this is why everyone cries on this show. You were telling me about your book, and you told me a story. I think you were writing your first book at the time, and you told me this story, and before I knew it, we'd gone from giggling to, you had me in full tears at brunch. And I was like, what is happening? Is this what happens on Queer Eye?

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

It was so, like, it gave me a giggle. And also, I was like, I didn't know I was going to be so

[Tan France]

emotional today that I don't think it's ever intended. But almost every one of my friends has had the same experience saying, it's just a TV show. Obviously, it's just a TV show. But then when we're in person, that duality of. I am. Anyone who knows me knows I'm a playful person. I'm a clown. I'm not a very serious person. But somehow, inevitably, during most hangouts, we have a tip or moment.

[Sophia]

You and I are the same. I. I am similar in the way that I'm incredibly goofy. I'm always laughing about something, you know? Also, I come from a long line of, like, insane Italian people from New Jersey. I'm very sarcastic. And. And for some reason, you know, I'll be at a party and I wind up in the corner having a conversation with someone, and I'm their therapist for an hour.

[Tan France]

Same, same. But I love that. I actually love that. I don't want to. My mom constantly is saying, when are you going to grow up? Sweat. Just at some point, you could just grow up. Like, not everything has to be a lark. But I love that I haven't grown up. I love the playful side, but I also don't. I don't want people to think they can't tell me something or ask for advice. And so I will always give an opinion, and it will often lead to tears. And I don't know why. It happens with almost everyone I know, but I would rather that than people think, he's. One note. You can't. I can't take anything seriously.

[Sophia]

Yeah. Well, I actually think for a lot of artists, I think a lot of people who are artistic are by nature more empathetic.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

And so something happens even in the middle of a party, if someone has something going on, it's like, I can feel it.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

And the more it comes out, the more I'm going, are you okay? And then we're just in it. Do you feel like it's that thing?

[Tan France]

Yeah. And I also think when. When you sense it, you're doing a disservice to just pretend it's not happening because it's not the right setting.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Tan France]

There's no such thing as the right thing. I could figure out, as you said, you'll go into a corner. You sat in the corner of a room and you're having a fuller heart to heart. There's always a space for it. I can always make space for it. And I think that just creative people in general, as you say, we're empathetic people. I do feel that that is very typically the case. I think that to be a creative person, you've got to be really in touch with your emotions.

[Sophia]

Yeah. Do you think if you look back and I love asking people this question, but I really love asking parents this question because I think when you are relating to your kids and helping them grow, you. You interact with your childhood self in a way. And I. I wonder if you think about knowing these things about yourself as you do as an adult. If you looked back and we got to, you know, go through the wardrobe, as it were, and like hang out with Tan at 9 or 10 right now, would you see those qualities in him? Like, who was that little boy? What did his life look like?

[Tan France]

You know, the crazy thing is, is that I don't think, obviously what I'd like to believe I've matured, but I don't think that the person I am is so far removed from the person I was. I was. Anyone who can't tell by the sound if you're just watching this, I am a homosexual. Even my voice gives it away. But I was, I wasn't more effeminate as a child. I was. I was more masculine presenting as a child than I am now. It's just because now I'm uninhibited and I'm not trying to hide anything. But as a kid, I was always playful, but I was always really compassionate, really caring, and I was a real caretaker. As a kid, I was the youngest. So of my siblings, I've got three other siblings. My parents were together and so I should have had the freedom to just be the spoil youngest child. And I have wrong. My. My siblings still spoil me and give me a pass, whereas the elders wouldn't get a pass. But I was still wanting to make sure my mom was okay. Like my main. My main resting state was, is my mom and my sister okay? Are they care of? Do they feel. Do they feel happy? If they don't feel happy, what can I do to make them happy? The boys I didn't care that much about, I loved my brothers. But before, like, we fought like brothers. We were very violent brothers with each other. We love each other now still, but we were very violent brothers. But if you were to have seen me, it was just a. A tinier version of me now.

[Sophia]

Well, and then you have the whole layer of space and place. I, I'm cackling. Well, I cackled earlier when you said if you can't tell from listening to me, I thought you were gonna say I'm English.

[Tan France]

Any American. The question is, are you South African, Australian or English? I'm like so clearly English.

[Sophia]

English. And but growing up, you know, north of London, you, you had that hybrid culture because you grew up in the UK and you are Pakistani. And so I imagine it's so much easier to know what that meant to your childhood.

[Tan France]

Now when you are part of a very, very small minority group in a town that is very much the same, you have to grow up really quickly because you are faced with the world a much earlier time than most. For example, I, I swear this is not meant to be a racing, but I'm just gonna tell you how I feel. I don't think many Caucasian kids in my hometown ever had to really think about where did I come from, what's my place in this town, Am I safe? In this town of my parents safe. And I'm talking about physical, literal physical safety. I don't think that ever had to be a consideration for them really at a very, very young age. And we start school early, so by the time we were five or six, we're in primary school. It's not like in America where kindergarten is five or six. And so you learn very early on by five or six, am I safe or am I not safe? Is this home or is this not home? Do I belong here? Do I not belong here? And those existential questions are strange for such a young child, I think. And it really does inform how you navigate.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Tan France]

This world. And so, so yeah, you're absolutely right. Being different, being Pakistani. But also I knew I was queer from a very young age. I don't remember a time I wasn't queer. I don't think there was ever a time when I thought I'm attracted to the people that my brothers were attracted to, that I did that. I never felt that. And so for all those reasons, you're trying to play a completely different person as a six year old, which is very complicated. Yeah, it's very complicated. You're trying to be white even though you're so clearly brown. You're trying to be straight even though you're so clearly queer. You're trying to speak English when that's not your first language and you're trying really hard to make it so that you don't way that You've got an accent, but you. That's not your language, so of course you've got an accent. So it just. You are playing so many complicated roles at such a very early age.

[Sophia]

Yeah. To have to learn to code switch like that as a kid is crazy. And, you know, I think about this a lot. There's all these variations of passing. Right. Like straight passing or white passing or CIS passing or whatever that, that benefit people, but they benefit people just because they remove layers of threat. They essentially get you closer to the safety that a white CIS straight man just implicitly has. But I will never forget the moment when it dawned on me that I was not safe in the world the way my male friends were. Yeah, I know exactly how old I was when the difference of safety for girls dawned on me. I was seven years old and I was like, oh, yeah. And then you, you, you learn that lesson at an increasing sort of speed and force through all your teenage years,

[Tan France]

and it's enforced in a greater, greater way as you get. Yeah.

[Sophia]

And so I think it's really interesting that queer kids, kids of color, like, there's just this whole experience that people have when they're not kind of the, the tip of the privilege spear.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

And.

[Sophia]

And nobody wants to talk about it. But to your point, I don't actually think it's like, I get that it's hard, and I get that everybody has a sad story. Like that's universally true, but I actually think if we don't talk about it in a normalized fashion, we avoid it because it's sad. And then I'm like, well, aren't we just perpetuating the problem?

[Tan France]

I don't know. Yeah, you know, I mean, I have these conversations with my niece and nephews, and I will have these conversations with my kids. I have kids who are the kids of queer parents who are raising their kids in Utah. Like these, these concerns will come up. I want you to know that you can talk about. It was taboo to talk about as a kid. You just would not talk about it back in the 80s. But now I just think, no, I'm going to talk about this with my kids and make it clear it's okay to feel this way. I understand you feel this way, but here's how you work through those emotions.

[Sophia]

I think that's really excellent. If I may, if I may tell you what I think about parenting, I think that's so great because what I know as an adult, and I wonder if you also have this, as we're all, you know, doing the responsible thing and going to therapy and trying to not make the same mistakes our parents and their parents made is. I realized that the lack of talking about a lot of this stuff made me internalize it and think it was me. Yeah, it gave me all this shame about, well, maybe something's wrong with me. Well, maybe I'm doing something wrong. Maybe I just can't figure it out. Instead of, hey kid, this is a societal thing and if you're aware of it, you can navigate it and you won't take it on as a personal failing.

[Tan France]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Because people not talking about it. There was nobody I knew that was queer as a kid, maybe a character on TV, but we didn't have many queer characters on TV in the 80s. And so, yeah, you think that you are the problem. And oh my gosh, I'm the only one in the world. Quash it, figure it out. It must be my problem. And so, yeah, I think if we just opened up the conversation, I think that a lot of kids would feel a lot safer.

[Sophia]

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[Sophia]

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Omalizumab is proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens. Xolair 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people 1 year of age and older to reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods. While taking Xolair, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to Xolair. Xolair may cause a severe, life threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you have ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Xolair should not be used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions including anaphylaxis. Xolair is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions including anaphylaxis while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effects such as cancer, fever, muscle aches and rash, parasitic infection, or heart and circulation problems have been reported. Please see xolair.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about Xolair. This is an advertisement for Xolair, paid for by Genentech and Novartis.

[Sophia]

This segment is brought to you by our friends at Miracle Gro. There is something so special about bringing loved ones together to share a meal. And for me, it's even more meaningful when I'm cooking with ingredients straight from my own garden. I started small. I planted a little bit of basil, a little bit of sage, a little bit of rosemary, and then I went a little crazy. And when I decided to become a beekeeper, I knew that I needed things I didn't just want to cook with, but that would be really good for my bees. Bee friendly plants, if you will, including coastal rosemary and pride of Madeira and lavender. Even the flowers that bloom seasonally on some of my citrus trees, the bees love. And I really can taste the infusion of all those things in my honey. That's also the coolest thing. Not only can I cook with herbs from my garden for people, but I can actually give honey away. Truly, I've never felt more connected to the earth. But like most things, growing doesn't always go perfectly. My bees are perfect, to be clear. But lately I've had some issues with pests in my tomatoes. They're driving me crazy. And I don't know if it's the weather, but my basil is not, not exactly living its best life. I am determined, however, to win the battle of the garden. I know I can do it, just like I know you guys can, too. I've learned it's actually these moments of frustration that make gardening so rewarding. Because when you get to the other side, when your plants are thriving, when your bees are happy, it's the ultimate joy. It's also the ultimate work in progress. And I think that's what makes my garden my sanctuary. When I'm in there, challenges don't bother me. They actually inspire me. And when I manage to solve a problem, I feel kind of incredible. I like being in touch with the seasons, and I like getting to know what my plants need. Like, I might repot. I might adjust my watering schedule. I might even supplement a little bit of magic and feed my plants with Miracle Gro plant food and see what happens from learning tricks about when to prune and when not to, to figuring out when my plants need a little boost. I like discovering new strategies so I can always be improving. It's the little things that actually add up and make a huge difference. And soon that little routine becomes something Bigger. My time in the garden becomes part of the rhythm of my life. It's a way for me to take care of the planet and my bees, but it's also a way for me to care of me. It becomes almost a meditation or a relationship with nature, and that is something that I really cherish. Depending on my work schedule, I might be out there really early in the morning or get a break at dusk and be able to go out and peek around and check on all my little green babies. I love being in a rhythm with my garden because it makes me feel like I'm in a rhythm with nature. It's my time to slow down. I get creative, I reconnect with the outdoors, and ultimately I get to connect with the people I share it with. There's nothing I love more than serving up a big meal and laughing with friends. And when they ask how I made something, getting to tell them that there's ingredients I grew in their dinner, and I get to send them home with a little jar of honey for tea the next day. It's just a really special way to love people. I think food is a love language, and I think your garden can be a resource for that. Because let me tell you what, when my garden salad hits the dinner table, it tastes way better knowing the journey that it took to get there. So if you're struggling with your own garden, I'm telling you, stick with it. Instead of getting frustrated, get inspired. Sometimes the best part of gardening isn't perfection. It's the process. Head to miraclegrow.com to check out all of their easy to use products and start your growth journey today. Do you kind of now look back and see what the markers were for you? How were you figuring out your queer identity? How were you leaning in or leaning out of it as a kid? You know, I know that you said that clothing was kind of. It was like a confidence costume in a way. Right. So how did you start to express yourself and figure this out as you grew up?

[Tan France]

At first, really privately, I remember so distinctly we had something called. In England, we call them net curtains or lace curtains. I don't think ever hit America, this trend. It was. It was a thing that just always was, it seems. So you know how you have your curtains in America and sometimes you have shears for the daytime so you can open your thick curtains and your shoes there? We don't really have shears. We had lace. It looked like bridal.

[Sophia]

Oh, yeah. On the little bars, like the little metal bits in the window. Yeah.

[Tan France]

Well, I was hung down to the ground. And so in private, I could act out my fantasies of being a bride. And I would sleep under this curtain and this, use this as my veil as I walk down the aisle to what's chosen to marry me. So in private, I got to act out who I truly was. And then at that, in the house, we were, we mostly wore South Asian clothes, which is modest clothing at home, but I had Friday clothes at school. We had dressed on Friday, so we had some Friday clothes. And so at home, I was constantly putting on clothes that were not appropriate for my family's home. But it was the only way I could show I'm not just a straight brown Asian kid in this household. Like, I feel like I'm a product of both and product of England and Pakistan. And I want to show that in how I communicate. And I couldn't. I have the words to articulate it. I couldn't communicate my emotions. And so clothes were the thing. And, yeah, I never thought that that would be where my career would end up, but it makes absolute sense that this kid at 6 or 7 who was changing multiple times a day for every activity or meal, I was changing my clothes and reworking a lock. It makes sense that that person understands the power of clothing more than anyone.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Tan France]

And that absolutely turned out. Yeah.

[Sophia]

I mean, it's incredible. You know, when I just, I just motored through the last season of Queer Eye, I can't believe it's over. I can't talk about it. As a viewer, I'm so sad. I know what it's like, truly, after 10 seasons to be like, I'm ready for my next thing. But I'm like, but we weren't ready. But it's wild to watch people really come back to life. You know, you watch the light pop back into someone's eyes. You see a person who's been judging themselves, you know, internalizing whatever their own critiques or personal shame look like. And then you give them a whole new moment, and they, they see themselves again, you know, why, why do you think clothes are that powerful?

[Tan France]

So I, I, I, I'll start this by saying I do think that I was the luckiest of the Fab five. I do. I think that I had, and I'm sure everyone feel this way about that category. I can only really speak to mine. I think that clothes do something that none of the other categories could do for you. And I think it's because all of us, whether we accept it or not, and if you're at home saying, Oh, I don't feel this way. That may be the case for you, but I don't know if I believe it from almost anybody. I don't think anybody walks through life thinking, I think my body is perfect. And I think that I look amazing every time I look in the mirror. I think every one of us has something about us that we look at. The like.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Tan France]

Just makes it, even if we don't hate it. I don't hate my body. I don't hate my body. But there are certain things about body that I'm like, I wish that muscles were bigger. I wish that I wasn't so petite. There's always something. And so I think that. That my category afforded me a luxury that none of the others did, which is that I get to really change the way you view yourself by just switching out. Even just something as simple as a T shirt, a pair of pants, or something so simple can make you view yourself so differently. And I think the reason why people respond so well to it in person, they. We call them our heroes. I know. You know, but for anyone who doesn't watch Queer Eye, we call them our heroes. And I think that the reason why our heroes feel this way is for the first time, somebody's saying, I want you to look at the positive only. I want I. And I'm the positive. And I'm seeing the beauty in you and your appearance and your body, and I want to highlight the best of that. And I think that so often we think people are looking at us negatively. They're critiquing the things that they're seeing, the things that we see in ourselves, which they seldom are. It's so rare. Somebody's thinking the thing that you think about yourself.

[Sophia]

Yes.

[Tan France]

And so I think that having somebody there who I would like to believe I'm a safe space. I try my best. You don't see this on camera, but I try my best beforehand to make it very clear. I am. Am your greatest champion here. I want the best for you. If you don't feel good in this, we won't even show it on camera. There have been so many times where I put something, somebody in, something that didn't fit, that they were uncomfortable in. I would sit, turn to production and say, we're not using that.

[Sophia]

Yeah, cut it.

[Tan France]

Cut that completely. We're gonna do something else. Because I don't ever want them to feel like the thing that they feel so insecure about. I'm about to show the world.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Tan France]

And so I think that I created a Safe space to say, I know that you've never let yourself give something else a try because you're too scared it's gonna fail. Fail air quotes with me and I will find a win through whatever failure we come through. And I think that, I think that that's the beauty of what my category afforded every one of our heroes is a safe space where they could at least just try and look. Sometimes we failed. It's a really hard thing to do. You're not going to win. Everyone. But I think the majority of them saw got massive changes in their self esteem from what we did with them.

[Sophia]

Yeah, it's just so cool. What was it like to be shepherding people through that experience? Kind of, you know, coming out from behind the curtain, if you will, for, for the heroes, you know, the subjects of the show, and also to know that you were going to be put on TV for the whole world to see, you know, you were really going to take up properly the mantle of one of the Fab Five, which means one of the queers, like, you know, was that. Yeah, yeah. For, for your community in particular. Was that scary?

[Tan France]

It was a really strange feeling. Gosh, it was such a strange feeling. It's so weird to talk about because it was nine years ago when it started.

[Sophia]

Yeah. Which feels like 100 years.

[Tan France]

Feels like 100. My gosh, life changes so much in 10 years. So when, when first got the job and we started shooting the show, I was really, really nervous. And I think that I had a very different experience of what the show was and what it could mean to all the others. And I know we all talked about it the first season came out that my, my, my entry point into this was very different for everybody else's. Everybody else just got to be excited. My fear was there hasn't been like anybody like me on TV before. And so when you take that and then you show this person for the first time, this person does represent a massive community. There are billions of South Asians and there were. There were like three of us on TV in the US There were no queer South Asians. So you're the only one. So I knew what to expect. I knew that there were so many people who were gonna hate what I represented, hate what I stood for, were scared of what I represented to the world. And so when the show came out, I know that the rest of like, amazing. It was huge. And every time a new article would come out, oh, my God, please don't let anyone see it. Please don't let anyone see it. If anyone sees it, that means that they're gonna find out who I am. And it was so stupid. But when I got where I thought, it's gonna be a tiny show. I want to do a tiny. I didn't even tell my family. I thought, well, this was years ago. This was not this. Not to generate Netflix. But at that time, no one I knew had that. No one in England was talking about Netflix. They had like, a couple of big shows, Orange is the New Black and House of Cards. They'd never had an unscripted show. It wasn't what it is now. And so I thought, thought most people in England are never going to see this. And if they see Netflix, they're not going to watch a queer show. Who's watching Queer show? And so it was just something crazy to do for a summer that I would tell my grandkids about never thinking that my family's gonna see this. And so as soon as it started to really pick up, which was the second day, I started to find it, thinking, I'm gonna get so much. I'm gonna get so much. And then I did. And it was. My experience was just very different. Very different. It was very different. Jonathan and Karamo at the time were like, we. We see what you're having to represent, and we don't. Karamo understood it because Karamo experienced it on the real World back in the day. He was like, I was the first openly queer black man on a major show. He said, it's terrifying, and it is. It's a bizarre feeling. So when everyone was watching with such joy and such excitement, it was lovely. But internally, I was having a full meltdown, hopefully.

[Sophia]

Oh, my God, you sweet soul. You really kept it together. You just like you. You French tucked and kept it pushing.

[Tan France]

Do you know, Let me talk about the French talk real quick. I know that the younger generation. So during COVID there was this article, I think it was by like, the New York Times or something, that said the. The French talk is a distinction for millennials. The younger generation is not doing it. So if you're brain talking, you're a millennial. If you're not brain stalking, you're a Gen Z. And basically, if Gen Z wasn't making fun of it, why would people ever do this? And I just think, even if it's not for you younger generation, it's so much better than just a big, baggy top. It gives you shape and. Yeah, so you may not love a French top. It turned it. It made me something like, I. Even if Somebody doesn't know my name. They know I'm the French tuck guy. And let me tell you, that's. That is a mad meat. It really is. I love that every now and then when I'm on vacation, I have people who don't speak English who are like a French. They don't know my name. But that I think is such a mark of the mark we left on the world. There are certain things that Auntie with avocados at the time you feel like, ah, people are making fun. But really I look back thinking I was known for something. That's wild. That I was known for something.

[Sophia]

Yeah. And now a word from our sponsors.

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[Sophia]

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[Sophia]

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[Sophia]

Spring is springing and I am so excited. Temperatures are starting to warm. The days are getting a little bit longer. I feel like my energy is getting a refresh and I can't wait to get out and refresh everything in my life. From a spring cleaning in the closet to replanting in the garden. It's time. And one way you can welcome spring is by changing up your routine. A refresh can be as simple as amplifying your look with clean beauty. From Thrive Cosmetics. Every one of their products is 100% vegan, cruelty free and made with skin loving ingredients that work with your skin, not against it. And when we use Thrive Cosmetics, we're helping others shine too. With over $150 million in product and cash donations to over 600 giving partners, every purchase fuels real impact. And that's what I call beauty with purpose. I love a bold lip so I use their Empower Matte Precision Lipstick Crayon. This one comes in 18 buildable, long lasting matte shades. It's designed to be worn as either a liner or layered and it leaves your lips looking luscious and fuller. I also love their brilliant eye Brightener. It's a waterproof eyeshadow highlighter stick made to brighten and open your eyes. Definitely comes in handy after long days on set. So amplify your everyday Go to Thrive Cosmetics Progress for an exclusive offer of 20% off your first order. That's Thrive Cosmetics. C A U S E M E t I c s.com progress Xolair Omalizumab

[Xolair Advertisement Voice]

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[Sophia]

Well listen, I I don't know what's going on in your house with the kiddos, but I can tell you we're teaching the kids about a French tuck in this house.

[Tan France]

So thank you. You did God's work.

[Sophia]

You're very welcome. Thank you so much. I'm like, no, no, you need a little. Just like a little style angle.

[Tan France]

Do you know, I'm sure you've seen this all over, but the kids, the younger kids are really leaning into. Are you. Do you say your age or no?

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Tan France]

Okay. How old are you, please?

[Sophia]

I'm 43. I'm not. Yeah, not Gen Z.

[Tan France]

So our out. When we were kids, we were wearing baggy. Like we were kids in the 90s. Like, we were wearing.

[Sophia]

Oh, my God, Jenka.

[Tan France]

Yeah, all that.

[Sophia]

We were really in it.

[Tan France]

See them wearing it now. And I'm not gonna critique because I'm like, yeah, we did that too. But one day you're gonna look back and think, I needed shape. Yeah, I just look like a lump. I need. It was all just so big. And I had these. You have these tiny little legs, and that makes it look even tinier. It's all a lot. And I just think, yeah, enjoy it. I'm telling you, by the time you get to buy it, you're gonna look back and think, I wish I just showed a bit of shape.

[Sophia]

I get that. I get that. How do you. How do you think about it going forward? Because you're doing all these different things. You know, you surprised us all. You're acting on deli boys, which is so fun and such a departure from who you are. You know, when you think about that, when you think about your production company, obviously called Frenchtech Media, how could it not be? You know, when you. When you're talking about bringing a theater show to London, I mean, what. What is the landscape look like for you right now? Because it. It looks like you're trying all of the things, and many of them are so far outside of fashion.

[Tan France]

Yeah. This might sound ludicrous, but I'm trying to distance myself from the style and fashion stuff because it was a part of my. My life for a very long time. But I don't know how you'll feel about me saying this or the audience in general feel about seeing this, but I'm so much more than that.

[Sophia]

And I get it.

[Tan France]

And I felt. I still feel stifled by it, thinking, yeah, I care about clothes, but I don't care that much about clothes. I care about how they feel, but I care about. Okay, here's how I want to answer this more succinctly. I guess I care about how clothes make me feel. I don't really care about everybody else's fashion. Whenever I see somebody, the first thing they say is, I was really nervous about what I was going to wear because I knew I was going to see you today. I don't care. Wear whatever makes you feel good. That's all that matters. If you feel that, great, I swear to God, I'm not looking at you, judging what you're wearing. I swear to God that that's not the case. I will judge you for other things. If you're being addict to someone, I'll judge you for that.

[Sophia]

Oh, if you're rude to the waiter, bye.

[Tan France]

I'll judge you for that. And I'll tell you. But when it comes to your clothes, I swear to God, I'm not really commenting. If it makes you feel good, that's all that matters. And I would like to believe, even on Queer Eye, okay, there were some things I'm like, I know I can make you feel better. I know you love this, but I know I can get a version of that that's going to make you feel even better. But on the whole, even on Queer, I am like, I'm not trying to give you my clothes. I'm going to give you what makes sense. For you do. Yeah. So the reason why I'm. I'm doing other things other than fashion is I get fashion opportunities regularly. Do you want to host this thing? Do you want to do a podcast about what people want? No, stop. It's not really what I mean.

[Sophia]

No, I don't.

[Tan France]

Yeah, I really don't. I don't care what they wore. I've got. I've got Instagram or Google, whatever. I'll Google what they were and I'll have my own opinions. I don't need to talk to them about it. And so I wanted, after Queer Eyes and Next in Fashion, another show I do on Netflix, I wanted to make it clear that that's one side of me, but no one's that one dimensional. And I really. The acting stuff, I was really passionate about because it really challenges me on where I. Or in unscripted. I feel like I got it. I know. So arrogant. But I'm like, I got it. I know how to be on camera. I know how to. It's not hard. I just. I'm. I'm a lively person. I'm an energetic person, and I'm playful. I. That's an easy job for me. I can do it with my eyes closed and I don't need to prep. I'm so comfortable with that. Like, I don't. My jobs have never been that easy. The reason why I loved Queer at the start, the reason why I love next in fashion at the start is because I found it very difficult. It was so not comfortable. But I got so comfortable. I'm like, I've got to do something else. And so I've been taking acting classes for a long time. I'd never talk about this, but let me just say this.

[Sophia]

Oh, my gosh.

[Tan France]

Tell me everything got Queer Eye. I was bricking it, which might be an English term. Do you know what bricking it means?

[Sophia]

Yep.

[Tan France]

Okay, brick in it. And so I shot season one, season two. We shot season one and season two together. We didn't know which episodes were going to be which season. And then I got signed by a big Hollywood agency, it's called wme. And. And my agent was wonderful. We were gonna. We knew we were gonna do a really big press tour. Netflix was giving it everything. And I was so scared. I was like, I don't know how to do a talk show. You kidding me? What you mean be entertaining on a talk show live? I don't think so. So my agent at the time gave me the best advice I've ever been given, which was, take an acting class in your hometown. I live in Salt Lake. Take an acting class for a few weeks. You are going to be put in such uncomfortable situations in front of people that might know you from Queer Eye. And that's going to really help you be better when you do these. These press hits. And so I did. I did my first press trinket and I hated it. And I sucked. I didn't know what to do. And then I started taking acting classes and it was so hard. I was so embarrassed. Where I'd been out for a couple of months, so. And everyone seemed to know it at that point. It wasn't a sleeper hit. It was a hit. And so I talked about this class and everyone knew they couldn't.

[Sophia]

Oh, my God. That's my worst nightmare.

[Tan France]

It was so mortifying. And then this acting teacher gives me this scene and I have to do it in front of all these people who know me. And I know my voice and my inner. My inner thoughts because I'm. I give everything on Queer Eye. You know, everything about me on Queer Eye. So. So I feel. I felt so vulnerable. But then I started to love it. And so for eight, eight and a half years I've been taking these classes and I just find it so challenging and difficult and exciting.

[Sophia]

I love that.

[Tan France]

I insisted on auditioning and I self taped and then I did an in person audition which. Where I vomited, which was the most terrified. I lit I vomited into a trash can because that was the only place I could vomit. And then I did my audition. I. I'd been in TV for eight years at that point. I feel so confident on a set. I walk onto an unscripted sound like, got it. What do you mean to do? Play. Be a clown. Absolutely no problem whatsoever. Talk for three hours. Got it. But do this accent, Play a character, do this dialogue that's not yours in front of these Disney executives who just want to see if you can do this because you're Tom France. Why are you doing this cockney accent That's. But I did it, and then I went to set. It was the best week of my career ever. I've never been happier in any job I've ever had in my life. And I just thought, I want to do this for the rest of my life. And it might not work. Yeah. I may never get another job, but I'm gonna try. Even if I'm gonna try.

[Sophia]

But I think that's part of it, you know, it's. We're so lucky to be at the time we're in. When I first started acting, you know, I started auditioning right as soon as I got into college.

[Tan France]

Were you already an actress? Were you taking classes and stuff?

[Sophia]

I. I wanted to be a heart surgeon. I had no interest. I thought acting was absolutely ridiculous. And then I had an arts requirement, and I had. Had to do a play.

[Tan France]

Okay.

[Sophia]

And I was like, I love this. I decided to pursue it, and then I wound up on, you know, my first show at 21.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

And for the longest time, it was like, well, if you do tv, you'll never make movies.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

And if, you know, if you make movies, then, you know. You know, of course, you. That nobody's gonna let you go and just do one season of a TV show. You have to sign on forever, and then. Oh, if you're an actor, you. You can't be a writer. And, you know, if you want to paint, you have to be paint in secret, under a pseudonym. You know, it was this whole crazy thing. And now I feel like we're in this really great renaissance of creativity where people say, oh, if you're interested in that and you have time for it, do it.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

And how gorgeous. You know, why not? So what's happening with the play you're producing? The P word? It's going up in London.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

Are you gonna be in it?

[Tan France]

No, I'm not gonna be in it.

[Sophia]

Okay. Okay. Okay. I wasn't sure if we were getting A surprise.

[Tan France]

No. Gosh, no. Theater sounds absolutely terrifying. Anyone that could do that. Have you ever done theater on the West End outside of school? Like, like, once you became.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Yes.

[Tan France]

You became. Wow. Okay.

[Sophia]

Yes. I, I. And by the way, people were like, do a fun little show off Broadway. And I was like, I'm gonna go to the West End.

[Tan France]

You wanted. Yeah, yeah.

[Sophia]

Like, I just was like, I, like, feel I want to do it. And it's. It is so fabulous, and it is the hardest, craziest thing I've ever done. I mean, also, I think just at the time I did it when the pandemic was still raging and literally half my company went down. I mean, we. People were not well. And then. And then it was also like, suddenly the whole business was on strike. And so then I was just sitting at home being like, well, this is weird. So I went from eight shows a week to. To being in my house being like, huh, yeah, what do I do now? And it was really the first time I'd ever. It was the first time in my life I wasn't attached to a series or a film or. I just was off. And I was like, I don't know how I feel about this. I'll start another podcast.

[Tan France]

Yeah. It. I will say I've never been, and I don't think I ever will be interested in being in a play. They have a skill set that I wouldn't even pretend I could make work, and so I would never dream of thinking I could do that. But the P word is a play that I heard about two years ago, was fascinated by the P word. I don't know if you know what that means. In England, there's a horrible term for my people, which is Paki. It's. It's such a disgusting slur that has been around brown people since my people came to the UK in the 50s. And so that was a term I got thrown at me a thousand times when I lived there. And so that they dared to call the play the P word I thought was brave, and I just thought the story was beautiful. It's about two Pakistanis who come together, who are navigating the world of being. We are gay in a brown world, in a brown Muslim world. And I lived that. That was my experience. So public publicly. And so to be able to offer my position, to offer my. To that or put my weight behind, felt almost not. I don't feel obligated at all. I'm so proud to be part of it, but it feels like an obligation of mine. I was one of the very first. I just think I should use my power for good. And so I want to try and encourage people to go and see this play because it's just a beautiful story. It's not a Debbie Downer story, Charlie. That's called a P word. Even though it's about two brown queer people. It's a beautiful story and I'm hoping we'll just go and see this wonderful theater. Let me tell you, it's so rare to see, actually. I don't think I've ever seen it. A South Asian lead. A show in the UK just doesn't happen. And see these two people do this, I just think is incredible. I really want people to give them a chance because there are. There are amazing South Asian creatives that just don't get a chance. And this show won an Olivier Award, which in England, I don't know what the American version is. It's. It's even. It holds even more weight than a Tony. It's just. It's an Olivier. It's huge success in theater and it won it. And so I'm really hoping that this. With. With the second one, more people will go and see it. And I just want to say this, which is. Which I want to be really frank about. About. I have a large white audience, and I want the white audience to know this is for them, too. I did an Instagram post a few months ago, and I've tried to do it somewhat often to say, here are some shows with brown people in. My people in. But they're not just for us. They're English shows. They're speaking English like deli boys. A show play this Assassin. I'm playing a cockney assassin. But. And it's almost exclusively the second season, they have more Caucasians in. But the first season was mostly a South Asian cast, but American Indians and Pakistanis. It was all in English. But I think most didn't give it a chance because they thought, oh, this is a brown show. It's not that. A brown show can be for you too. Have you ever seen that show Atlanta? I don't know what. Yes, Atlanta's wicked.

[Sophia]

Like, absolutely fabulous.

[Tan France]

But I'm like, that's. That wasn't. I'm sure when they were making it, they weren't thinking, what, the queer, brown Muslim community is going to love this. No, they were just making a wonderful show that I just so happened to love. And I really am trying to explain to my audience, and I sound angry when I'm saying it, but it's just passion. I've watched white shows my entire life and I love them and I found common ground with those characters. You can find common ground with us. We're regular people. We're nice, we're fun, we're entertaining, we're horrible, we're mean, we're, we're full. We, we're fully formed people. You will find something that you can connect with in any one of our shows, I promise. And so that's why, that's why I'm a producer of the P word. I just, I have, I think that the assumption is, oh, he's brown, so he should be part of it. No, I want to be a part of it because I want to tell the whites. Watch this. You will learn something for it from it. And hopefully especially you Brits, if you've ever thought of shouting, shouting the P word at one of us, maybe this show will make you reconsider.

[Sophia]

Yeah, I love that. It is so interesting. Like, I don't know why that, I don't know why so many people who look like me have that reaction. Because, you know, we've always sort of expected everyone to watch our stories.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

And I don't know why that's not a two way street. Or there's this idea that, you know, it's, it's not, not for us. Like, none of my friends of color have been like, marvel's not for me. Except for Black Panther. Like, what superhero stories are lit? Like, what are you talking about?

[Tan France]

Yeah. Now don't get me wrong. People of color always notice the things that aren't, aren't jokes for us. Like this. There's certain things that come up be like, oh, what, brown people don't do that. That's definitely something. That's okay. You're learning something new. It's fine to educate yourself. It's funny, when I, I first came on the scene, there were a lot of people who were like, I didn't know that you guys were just like us. And they were talking about the gay thing and the brown thing and the Muslim thing. Yeah, we're just like you guys. Just, you have some quirks that are just specifically you. We've got some quirks that are specifically us, but on the whole, I'm just like you.

[Sophia]

And now a word from our wonderful sponsors.

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[Sophia]

Spring is springing and I am so excited. Temperatures are starting to warm, the days are getting a little bit longer. I feel like my energy is to be going getting a refresh and I can't wait to get out and refresh everything in my life from a spring cleaning in the closet to replanting in the garden. It's time and one way you can welcome spring is by changing up your routine. A refresh can be as simple as amplifying your look with clean beauty from Thrive Cosmetics. Every one of their products is 100% vegan, cruelty free and made with skin loving ingredients that work with your skin skin, not against it. And when we use Thrive Cosmetics, we're helping others shine too. With over $150 million in product and cash donations to over 600 giving partners, every purchase fuels real impact. And that's what I call beauty with purpose. I love a bold lip, so I use their Empower Matte Precision Lipstick Crayon. This one comes in 18 bottom buildable, long lasting matte shades. It's designed to be worn as either a liner or layered and it leaves your lips looking luscious and fuller. I also love their brilliant eye brightener. It's a waterproof eyeshadow highlighter stick made to brighten and open your eyes. Definitely comes in handy after long days on set, so amplify your everyday Go to Thrive Cosmetics Slash Progress for an exclusive offer of 20 off your first order order. That's Thrive Cosmetics. C-A U S E M E T-I

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[Sophia]

Wait, have you seen? I'll have to text it to you. One of my favorite people on Tick Tock is this hilarious black woman who goes the white people phrase I phrases I learned today. And she goes through them list by lip. Like she does a full list once a week. And I, I mean she makes me cry.

[Tan France]

Please Said that I love.

[Sophia]

Oh my God. And she'll just be like, I'm gonna use that one. And the ones she really likes, she'll repeat a few times and like try to get the sound of it right. And I just like, I scream laughing. It's so funny.

[Tan France]

One thing I loved about Queer Eye is Karamo and I especially within the last few seasons, would turn to each other, each other every now and then and say white people. Because, well, we don't do whatever that thing is or we don't get the thing that we're like, it's gotta be a white person thing.

[Sophia]

Like, what is this? You did that. One of the things I'm really loving. Bless you for the new show for our friends at home. Tan has a new series on YouTube called Honorable Gays. And you're basically. It's so genius. You're doing what my friends and I do all day long, which is like, did you see this insane Reddit thread? And we read them to each other and it's the am I the asshole? Thing. And on one of them recently, I won't give it away, I promise. It's not a spoiler. But. But you're talking to two comedians reading

[Tan France]

through these things, and one of them is Mexican. His name's Eric Sedano. Yes.

[Sophia]

And you. And you look at the other comedian, Rob, and you go, sorry, but this is. This is white people. Brown people do not do this.

[Tan France]

Eric laughs and he's like, 100%. I was gonna say, this is some white people bullshit. It's so good the amount of times me and Kramer did it. And we do it on Honorable Games. It's always, always the dynamic between kids and parents.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Tan France]

That is, that's the differentiator. A lot of the time. It's. There's certain ways that brown parents or black parents are with their kids that's very different from how white parents are with white kids, or vice versa with their parents. And so that's the time you'll mostly find that non white people say, oh, that's a white person. Think. Because we don't interact with our families the same way. Yes, honorable Gay, please. So, okay, can I just wax on about Honorable Games for a second, please?

[Sophia]

I love it so much.

[Tan France]

I. So I. I wasn't a YouTuber. Never really been a YouTuber. But my, my agents were like, what do you want to do next? And I was like, I want. I think I work well in an ensemble, actually. I would love your opinion. Do you know what? It's not very often I get to talk to somebody who's been in an ensemble.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Tan France]

And I won't judge you for how, however you answer this. I think that I work better in an ensemble. I love bouncing off people. I'm not trying to beat the star. So when Next in Fashion first came to me, this was like six months after Queer I came out, I was offered a new show, and the show was for me to host solo. And I said to the executive at Netflix and, like, I really like working with other people. And I think. And I know why you're saying, do it solo. I don't need that. I don't need to be the star. I will please share it with whoever else you want. And I guess for who it should be. I don't. I think that being the star I think is better. It makes you the star. When you're with multiple people, you all get to shine and you're helping other people shine. And I want to know if you feel the same way because you've done a lot of ensemble stuff. Do you typically push it? I would love for you to be honest. Do you typically push to be on your own or do you think that you are better with others?

[Sophia]

I love being with people. I am. I love being on a team. Like, I'm not interested in having it if I have it all by myself. I'd rather have less of a good thing than all of something by myself.

[Tan France]

Yeah, agree.

[Sophia]

And for me, the good thing is being with people.

[Tan France]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

So I've, I've really learned that, that thing where like, even on a show I don't, I don't care about billing. Somebody wants the first title card, the agents can fight about that. But if, if there's a male lead and a female lead, if I've signed on first, my one non negotiable is I will be number one on the call.

[Tan France]

If I were female, I feel exactly the same way. And I know exactly what you mean about. It just changes.

[Sophia]

It changes everything for sure.

[Tan France]

With this one with Honorable Gaze, I wanted to have fun. I loved getting to do Queer Eye for so long. And I, I, my resting state is I just want to play. And so Honorable gays, I'm just gonna set the scene for everyone who.

[Sophia]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Tan France]

Yeah. So Honorable gays is a YouTube series. We've got a full season of eight episodes, but they will drop every two weeks. And it's me and two honorable gays. I play a judge. They play both sides of an argument. Eric Sedano, Rob Anderson, who are incredible online comics, but they also do tours and, and we read Am I the asshole? Reddit stories, the kind of stuff, they're so varied. But a bridesmaid falling out with another bridesmaid or the bride. Parents who are dating but their kids are also so dating. That's truly one of the stories.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Tan France]

Roommate Dynamics. So these stories have submitted, then we discuss the story. But it's also animated. And I, I'm the one who created the show and I really wanted animation to bring these stories to life. And I think the animation is so funny. This is so funny. He's so good at it. And so we read these stories and then we decide who's the asshole. There's three stories every episode. It's only 15 minutes and it's so quick paced and it was some of the most fun I've had in quite some time. I absolutely loved it. And these are so damn funny. And I'm really hoping this gives them an opportunity to do. I'm sure they both want to do TV and more tours. I'm like, please, like, make these boys stars. They are so talented.

[Sophia]

They are hilarious. Okay, well, I am so thrilled people can tune in to Honorable Gays on YouTube. You guys, I got a sneak peek at a bunch of episodes. You're not prepared. They're perfect. I want to talk to you more about that in a special little something coming up. But before I let you go for today, I must ask you my very favorite question. Tan France. What? In this moment, when you kind of look at the landscape of life, whether it's parenthood, all these production adventures, what feels like your work in progress?

[Tan France]

My work in progress right now is my personal life, weirdly enough. Career, you never know what's going to happen and that ebbs and flows. It's. What do I want for the future of myself, my husband and my children? We're currently considering a massive move, quite frankly. We've been in Utah for 19 years. I built a dream house here three years ago, and I thought that this was where I will retire and my life will be complete. But I. But now it's more of a work in progress. Now it's a what more joy can we get out of this life? What more adventure can we get out of this life? What else do I want my kids to experience? And so my work in progress, weirdly enough, is what future do I want for my family that I can control? And what does that look like next?

[Sophia]

That's amazing. That's so exciting.

[Tan France]

It's really exciting. It's terrifying time.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Tan France]

We did a massive move. I moved from the UK to the US and then to Utah. Like, they're massive moves. And I left everything I ever knew. And I'm so scared doing it in middle age, but I'm like, why not? Why not relatively young? And if I don't now, I'm probably not going to make such a big life move in my 60s. So now seems like the right time.

[Sophia]

I love that for you.

[Tan France]

Thanks. Terrifying. But let's see how it goes.

[Sophia]

We'll have to offline about where we're going.

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[Sophia]

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[Sophia]

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[Sophia]

This is an iHEART podcast. Guaranteed Human.