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- [00:00]
Sophia Bush
You're listening to an iHeart podcast.
- [00:06]
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- [00:36]
Sophia Bush
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- [01:18]
Laura Kim
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- [02:21]
Sophia Bush
Hey everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in. Welcome back to Work in Progress. Whip Smarties. We have a guest today who has been dubbed the Queen of Quirk by the New York Times and You know how I love a quirky lady. Carrie Preston joins us on the show today. I am so excited to talk to her about how she built her unconventional attorney named Elsbeth Toscone in her hit series Elspeth because. Because this character actually originated in. In a guest episode on the Good Wife and just kept coming back for more, then appeared on the Good Fight, and then, apparently, thanks to a Columbo rewatch, the creators said, hold the phone. That's the show that Elspeth needs. I want to talk to Carrie about how she's carried this incredible character over 15 years, how she figures out how to make so many people in the world feel represented on screen, what brings her joy as an artist and how she found her artistic voice. It was earlier than you might think. And what it's like to figure out ways to use her platform for good. Being so rooted in joy. From supporting the LGBTQ community with GLAAD to advocating for folks with Parkinson's alongside Michael J. Fox and his foundation, Carrie really takes her goodness on screen to off. And I just can't wait to hear from her how she manages to balance it all. Let's dive in with Carrie Preston. Thank you for coming on the show. I'm so geeked that you're here. You're just the absolute coolest human, and I'm, like, really amped about it.
- [04:27]
Carrie Preston
Well, I should say first that I was on a jury once for an indie film festival, and Love Song.
- [04:34]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [04:35]
Carrie Preston
Was one of the In. In. In competition, and it was, like, such an easy. This is. Should be the winner for me.
- [04:43]
Sophia Bush
Oh, my God.
- [04:44]
Carrie Preston
It did win. So there you go, Harry.
- [04:46]
Sophia Bush
Thank you.
- [04:48]
Carrie Preston
You and Michael, you guys were great together.
- [04:51]
Sophia Bush
Oh, thank you. We had such a special time making that movie.
- [04:54]
Carrie Preston
The two of you were just, like, electric together. I don't even know. I mean, it was just, like, riveting from the minute it started, and it was brilliant. Whole thing. It was great.
- [05:03]
Sophia Bush
Oh, thank you so much. That really means a lot. I really appreciate that.
- [05:07]
Carrie Preston
Yeah. And you were awesome.
- [05:09]
Sophia Bush
Thanks. Well, you're so awesome, and I just. I love when I get to sit down with people whose work I adore and who are just doing such cool things in the world, but I kind of like to go back to catch up to where we are, because I feel like when you're a person who, you know, folks know, they love watching you on tv, you know, they know your body of work, they know you, and I know you as this person, but I wonder if, you know, you got to be in A, you know, your own sci fi movie and hang out with yourself when you were 9 or 10. You know, like, have a day in the park in the city with your younger self. Would you. Do you think you would see yourself today in her? And do you think she would be like, oh, cool, I see how I turned into you. Or did your life just take, like, a totally unexpected series of turns and you had no idea you'd. You'd be doing this for a living?
- [06:08]
Carrie Preston
You know, I grew up in Macon, Georgia. Okay. And, you know, that's a smaller town. It's not. It's not the smallest. You know, it's a. But it's in Georgia. And, you know, there weren't, like, actors that were coming up in that town. Do you know what I mean? It was just. It wasn't like that was the thing that you. You would. You would aspire to do was be an actor.
- [06:35]
Sophia Bush
Yeah. You didn't grow up, like, next to Times Square.
- [06:38]
Carrie Preston
I wasn't, like, going to the Professional after school or any of that stuff. Yeah. But I'm definitely a little bit of what you might call a lifer. You know, I. I started doing when I was 8 years old. My older brother John, he started doing community theater. And I was like, I want to be like him. So I started doing plays. And we had very supportive parents. My mom. My mom's an artist. She was a painter, a sculptor, and did art therapy.
- [07:12]
Laura Kim
Wow.
- [07:13]
Carrie Preston
Knew what that was. I mean, she called it expressive art. She didn't get a degree in art therapy, but she got it. She got certified in expressive art, which is very similar. So she was doing that kind of thing. My dad, geotechnical engineer, so he's like the left brain side of things. Wow. You know, and my mom was like, the right brain side of things. And luckily they. They didn't try to fight us on that. Like, you know, they were like, okay, you want to be creative, we're gonna let you do that. I mean, I was. I was. When I was like, six years old, I. I remember laying in the front yard and acting like there were cameras in the trees and then trying to act natural. Wow. Like, why? Don't know why. I don't know how that. But, like, feeling like cameras were watching me. So that was just something that, I don't know, was maybe ingrained in me. But, you know, by the time I'm 12, I'm starting my own theater company with the kids in the neighborhood. You know, I was. That. I was that kid who just was like, I love to do this now, I don't know if it was because I needed more order in my life. I don't know what it was, but I. I was gravitating towards it. And I started doing community theater, and I would, you know, and. But I wasn't playing, like, the leads. I was always playing the comic sidekick. I was always playing, like, you know, and I would put on the. The fanny pack and the glasses and the. You know, I would do the funny character voices. I was already messing around with that, not really knowing what I was doing.
- [08:54]
Sophia Bush
Wow, it's so interesting that you say that. Every once in a while, I think about moments in my own childhood where I go, oh, there it was, where, you know, my parents would be out, and I was finally old enough to stay home by myself, and I'd be, like, doing a scene in the living room alone, because I felt like, oh, I've got the house all to myself, and now I can work on this. And even now, I mean, this morning, I was, you know, walking from one end of the subway station to the other to catch a train, and I was like, God, this whole thing just feels like a movie. And I catch myself realizing, like, if I was shooting this, I'd have a camera on a dolly track over there, and, oh, look at that.
- [09:36]
Carrie Preston
Cool.
- [09:36]
Sophia Bush
And there's a guy with a, you know, a violin over here. And I'm always thinking about it that way, but I. I didn't. I guess I've never really even thought to talk about that until you just did. And I went, oh, we do. We do have a weird thing that we do, I guess, when we're artists.
- [09:53]
Carrie Preston
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, because otherwise, why would we be doing it? Because it's a very hard business to get into. So there must be, you know, and.
- [10:02]
Sophia Bush
To maintain and to be in.
- [10:05]
Carrie Preston
Yeah. And to maintain and do it and do all of the peripheral things that go. Go along with it. Yeah. No, including the not getting the job part, which is way more than the getting the job part.
- [10:14]
Sophia Bush
Oh, yeah.
- [10:15]
Carrie Preston
All of that stuff. If we didn't have this, I don't know, original kernel of. Yeah, this is. This is what I. This is what I want. What I need to do. I at least need to try to do it, or I got to be creative in some way. And I've always felt that way. Like, I got to be creative in some way. Like, even when I was younger, it. Yes, it was the acting part, but I started directing and writing and doing all that stuff at the same time because I just Wanted to make things, you know, and I would also make puppets and paint and make. You know, because my mom was an artist, you know, we were always doing, you know, some kind of arts, so there was an appreciation for it and just a desire to express myself in some way. And so that has come in handy as my life has gone on in this. In this creative pursuit, because when I find that, okay, well, maybe I'm not being hired right now, well, I'm gonna go ahead and make my own stuff.
- [11:21]
Sophia Bush
Right.
- [11:22]
Carrie Preston
There's that empowerment there that I think. I think it was nurtured. I'm lucky. It was nurtured at a young age by parents who didn't try to talk me out of it, by teachers who were like, yeah, yeah, you could do that. We don't quite know how to teach you how to do that, but we can get you to the places that can, you know, that kind of thing.
- [11:42]
Sophia Bush
That's really, really very cool, because what I'm hearing you talk about is the fact that, as the phrase goes, because you could see it, you were empowered to believe you could be it. Your mom was an artist, so you could be an artist. And I think to be given the tool to express yourself from such a young age and then to have that natural inclination to want to use those tools be fostered.
- [12:10]
Carrie Preston
What a cool. Just.
- [12:13]
Sophia Bush
What a cool series of empowering events that must have felt like as a kid.
- [12:18]
Carrie Preston
Yeah. Yeah, it did. And. And also just the. The joy of it, you know? Yeah, the. You know how it is, like when you. When you key and when you're doing a role and it just starts to take over, and you just feel like you're expressing something bigger. You're in charge of giving something bigger to the world, you know?
- [12:44]
Sophia Bush
Yes.
- [12:45]
Carrie Preston
You know that the. The translation of what it is to be a human through, you know, through your. Your instrument, you know, I don't know that. There's just something very thrilling about that, and it's. It feels like a contribution.
- [13:03]
Sophia Bush
Yeah. Yeah. I always. I talk about this sort of singularity I experience where it feels like, for me, the journey into the character where. Where it really comes alive in me. It's the amount of work it requires and the creativity and the excitement and the joy you're talking about, and then sudden feel feelings that I know are not mine, but my body doesn't know are not mine. And in that moment, it's like those feelings can represent everyone who might watch it. At some point, I can give it away, and it's, you know, it's like the, it's like the two butterfly wings and I feel like I'm just in the body in the center and it's so cool.
- [13:47]
Carrie Preston
Yeah, yeah. Like Martha Graham says, the body never lies.
- [13:51]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [13:51]
Carrie Preston
You know, and so it can be a little. You gotta like work on your own mental health because sometimes majorly, like you just said, your body doesn't know. And so suddenly you're carrying some kind of trauma around that you actually don't have. So, yeah, you have to like, kind of.
- [14:10]
Sophia Bush
That's an interesting part of our job nobody ever really talks about is like you, you really have to have some mental health practices if you want to stay sane and do this for a living.
- [14:20]
Carrie Preston
Yes.
- [14:21]
Sophia Bush
It sounds like you got to build such a big toolkit from such an early age. But to your point, you know, Macon, Georgia is not Times Square. Was it a surreal kind of adjustment for you to leave home and come to Juilliard and be in the mix of this city and that kind of professional pursuit?
- [14:43]
Carrie Preston
Well, I got the great privilege and, and benefit of going to some undergraduate schools before I went. So I, I got to have a little bit of a bridge.
- [14:59]
Sophia Bush
Okay.
- [14:59]
Carrie Preston
You know, so I went first, I went to the College of Charleston for a couple of years. And then I met a professor there who said, let's get you some stronger training than we have here. So they got me, he got me to audition for a very tiny but very powerful little liberal arts school in Southern Indiana called the University of Evansville. And there was a professor, David Lutz, who had started that program and fostered the program and turned it into really a world class little training womb. And so I went there for a couple of years and really got some really solid training. And one of the things that he and the professors there take great pride in is that they help place their students in the top graduate acting schools in the country. Yeah. And so they really have like an incredible rate still of student to, you know, Juilliard, Yale, nyu, ucsd, like the, you know, some, some really solid, solid training grounds. And I, I loved school. I was one of those weirdos that just loved me too. And I couldn't help of it. So I just kept going, you know, so because I ended up going from undergrad to four years at Juilliard, Julia is a, was at the time when I was there, a four year program. And so, you know, that was an additional four years, but it was a really good way for a small town girl to acclimatize herself to that. What you were saying, large Ocean of place, you know, and, and so I had that. I had the, the, the, you know, the benefit of being in a, In a school that could prepare me for it and so having that kind of insulated vibe, but still being right smack in the middle of Manhattan, you know, Lincoln center, you know, which had its wonderful, you know, benefits, which was going. Getting to go see all those shows and.
- [17:14]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [17:14]
Carrie Preston
You know, around all those different artists at that school.
- [17:18]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [17:18]
Carrie Preston
All the different disciplines, you know, really shaped me and had, you know, gave me even more of an appreciation of all the fellow artists that, you know, I had the privilege of being around.
- [17:32]
Sophia Bush
What were some of your favorite things that you got to do as a student there?
- [17:37]
Carrie Preston
I mean, we were there, you know, from 8:00am until like midnight, you know, every day we were there. And, and so we would have these, like, classroom projects, you know, so it felt like we were just doing these plays for each other and for the faculty and for each other, and so that we were able to feel like less of the pressure of performance. The program is built to kind of lead you up to the public performance side of things and, you know, to get you in a place where you feel free and stuff and you're working with the same people. You know, you have your core class, and that's who you go through this four years with, you know, for better and sometimes for worse. I mean, it's a lot. You know, it's a little bit like boot camp for, for acting. You know, there's a joke that some people call it the jail yard school because, you know, you're kind of stuck in. In. In this like, you know, pressure cooker. In some ways, I found it to be invigorating. I'm still very close to a lot of my classmates, and we had a crazy class. But along the way, we formed our own theater company. And we ended up doing a season, a couple of plays in between, in the summer between our second and third year of school. And so that was like a really special thing too, to, To. To get this group of people and take what we were learning out into the world and perform.
- [19:15]
Sophia Bush
That's really cool. And the, the desire to keep going. You know, it's your summer break and all you want is more of what you're doing in school. What a great indicator that you're on the right life path, right?
- [19:28]
Carrie Preston
Yeah, exactly.
- [19:29]
Sophia Bush
That's so cool.
- [19:30]
Carrie Preston
Got to, because I was studying the classics. You know, I was learning how to do Shakespeare and stuff from. From the very beginning of college, I started auditioning for summer Shakespeare programs. And pretty much every summer I would go to, you know, Georgia Shakespeare, Utah Shakespeare, California Shakespeare. I would do. I would get to do Shakespeare. Even when we did our little Juilliard company, we did a Shakespeare play. So, you know, I was constantly cutting my teeth on, you know, some of the. The most, you know, iconic literature, dramatic literature, that they're the stuff that we all keep going back to. Yeah, artists.
- [20:17]
Sophia Bush
I love that. How fun. We'll be back in just a minute after a few words from our favorite sponsors.
- [20:25]
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- [21:29]
Sophia Bush
I imagine when you get to reflect, you know, they say hindsight's 20 20, right? Like, you see everything so clearly. You see what you were building and what you loved and was coming back to. This character of, of Elspeth. Did it. Did it kind of feel as exciting as the way you're talking about looking back on that Shakespeare period? Because it's not lost on me that you started playing this character 15 years ago and then played her across two shows, and now you're playing her in this third show. It's like, it feels like a thing you get to revisit and build and build and build on in a world. And, you know, maybe it's a stretch, but in my, in my observation, in this moment, I'm like, hold on. It almost feels like you returning to Shakespeare over and over and over again. It's like you're getting to do a version of that now. Or does that track? Or does that feel crazy?
- [22:26]
Carrie Preston
That tracks. I hadn't really connected that. Those dots, so thank you for that because it really is making me think about it in a way that feels like it's part of a longer trajectory. There's not a day that goes by that I'm not amazed, grateful and humbled by getting to play this character. Not a day goes by because it is like you just said, it's not lost on me. It is really not lost on me. I'm. I'm a 58 year old woman who has been doing character roles my whole career, happily supporting. I've had played leads in movies, etc, indies and stuff. But mostly I'm, you know, I've been there to support, you know, and happily love it, you know, love being trusted with those kinds of roles. You know, when I first started out, you know, everybody always wants to kind of pigeonhole you and tell you like, this is your type, you know. And so when I was young it was like, you're the ingenue. And I was always like, okay, but I don't make that ingenue interesting because like, I don't want to just play, you know, like the pretty young thing, like, especially in Shakespeare.
- [23:55]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [23:57]
Carrie Preston
And when I first got out of Juilliard, I got to audition for the Tempest, which was being done at Shakespeare in the Park. It was George C. Wolf, the great director's first Shakespeare that he'd ever directed. It was Patrick Stewart playing Prospero. And I was auditioning for Miranda, which is, you know, one of the ingenues in the Shakespeare canon. But I was like, yeah, but if you're girl who's, you know, 15 and you have only since you were a baby, lived on an island with a bunch of dudes, your dad a monster, a failure, you know, you're gonna be like the pretty girl in the dress. Like, how are you gonna know how to do that? No way.
- [24:47]
Sophia Bush
You're gonna be one of the lost boys, gonna be a tomboy.
- [24:51]
Carrie Preston
You're gonna be so like, I went whole hard on that, you know, hot off on my hair, went for the tomboy, the gamine, you know, thing and really turn that, tried to turn that character into somebody, a different interpretation of that role and got, you know, got the part, got to do it. We moved it to Broadway and I made my Broadway debut doing that. And I thought, no, you don't have. You can be a character actor in a package. You can be. Is what we're always doing character acting. I mean, we're creating characters, right? Like, aren't we supposed to be doing that? We're not supposed to be doing the audience's interpretation of what the leading lady is. We're supposed to bring who we are, marry what we read on the page, the text, work that we do, the work we do with the other actors, the work we do with the director, and create something that's fresh. So I felt that. And that's part of. Just. Because I went to school and I was taught to do the deep, you know, mining of the character. So when I got the role this is all leading up to when I got the role of Elsbeth, I tried to apply the same principles to that as I. To these Shakespeare roles. Like, what are we gonna do with this character that makes her different?
- [26:19]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [26:20]
Carrie Preston
How am I gonna bring myself? What am I gonna do? How does this woman think, you know, just started doing that deeper work and not just be. Now part of it was what was written, but, you know, not just be like, the. The lawyer of the week. Like, what can we do this. Something. Something singular. And the fact that they were given. They gave me that license. Fantastic. That always starts with the page.
- [26:46]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [26:47]
Carrie Preston
But they gave me that license and then kept inviting me back to.
- [26:53]
Sophia Bush
Wow.
- [26:54]
Carrie Preston
And then it became this alchemy between what they were writing and what I was doing. And, you know, here we are. But it. There was no guarantee that, like, we would get to do our show that would. Like, when they told me this was in 2020, when Robert and Michelle, you know, reached out to me because it was Covid, we were all on lockdown. They were seeing the end of the good fight. They knew that that was going to be coming to an end soon. And they were like, what are we going to do next? And they had been rewatching episodes of Columbo, and they were like, huh, Maybe that's. Maybe we could put Elspeth Tasioni in a situation like that. Then simultaneously, Elizabeth Vensatelli, who's a writer at the New York Times, wrote an article about what she was doing during COVID was watching episodes of Columbo. And last line of the article was, we don't need a reboot of Columbo. Just give Elspeth Tasioni her own show.
- [27:57]
Sophia Bush
No.
- [27:58]
Carrie Preston
Yes. And then I'm just chills, right? So Robert and Michelle. They saw that. Robert and Michelle King. And they saw that, and they were like, okay, that's. Like, this is weird, because that's exactly what we were thinking. And then they started the process, but that was in 2020. And they called and they were like, do you want to do this? I was like, yeah, I mean, obviously, obviously. And then it just wouldn't happen. Wouldn't happen for years. And I was like, okay, I guess it's not going to happen. And then, you know, whatever A year and a half ago.
- [28:29]
Sophia Bush
And now Elspeth is back. When you look back to the beginning, you know, when you talk about that character work, you know, the ways you wanted to build her into more than just a lawyer of the week, what are the things that you started to noodle with 15 years ago that have become so core to your character now?
- [28:52]
Carrie Preston
Yeah, that's a good question, because I don't like to revisit, like, my past work. Too much.
- [28:57]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [28:58]
Carrie Preston
My head. I also am like, oh, I look so much younger. You know, I go to, like, crazy places.
- [29:03]
Sophia Bush
Everybody does. It's really weird to have to watch yourself be a human on film.
- [29:08]
Carrie Preston
Oh, my God.
- [29:09]
Sophia Bush
Most just in our bodies, looking out. So to have look at yourself all the time, it's weird. It's a weird experience.
- [29:16]
Carrie Preston
A weird experience, and it can really mess you up. So I try not to do that. But where we started this, the series that Ellis. At the series, I thought, well, just go back, because I'd like to see, like, what I did back then, because I don't remember. It was 15. No, I'd like to see. So I watched Elizabeth's first appearance, and it was fascinating. First of all was like. And I know what you. I know you must relate to this. It's like watching somebody else.
- [29:46]
Sophia Bush
Yeah. It's like. It's almost like watching your sister.
- [29:50]
Carrie Preston
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [29:51]
Sophia Bush
They look like you.
- [29:53]
Carrie Preston
Yeah, they look like you.
- [29:54]
Sophia Bush
Familiar, but also like a stranger.
- [29:56]
Carrie Preston
Like a stranger. Yeah. It's like revisiting this person that you used to be.
- [30:01]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [30:02]
Carrie Preston
Or it's like, maybe she's like my child or something. There was something I felt very. I felt. Felt very maternal towards her, you know, like this. But I could tell that I was, you know, I was finding my way. I mean, this was like a guest spot, you know, so. And. And you're there when you do a guest spot, which I've done so very many of in my career. You're there to serve.
- [30:26]
Sophia Bush
Oh, yeah.
- [30:27]
Carrie Preston
You're there to serve what they need to do to be a support to those other actors. And I. I love. I love that. But there. But there's a lot of pressure, too, because you can't go in there and start, like, messing around, you know, they. They've hired you. They've hired you to be the pinch hitter to come in. Do, you know, do the same. Because we don't have time. We've got to get this thing done. But I needed on the page, there was something that was a sparkle to this character that I knew they wanted me to do something different.
- [31:00]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [31:01]
Carrie Preston
And even then, 15 years ago, Robert King said to me, we're thinking about her like a female Colombo. And I said, oh, okay. I think I know what that means. That they want her to be unexpected, unconventional, to be somebody that the audience and then the people around her don't see coming. So I just thought, let me figure that out. And you can see I was tentatively doing it, but it was there. You know, the kind of odd way in which she thinks and stuff. It was there, but I wasn't really letting the full freak flag fly yet because I didn't know if it was okay to do that, you know.
- [31:44]
Sophia Bush
Right. And.
- [31:45]
Carrie Preston
And so I did a couple of episodes at the end of season one, and then I didn't hear anything for an entire season. So I thought I blew it. I thought I didn't do enough or I did too much or something. So I let it go. I said goodbye. I was like, oh, well, I did it. I did it. It was fun. People seemed to like it, but, you know, that's it. And then they called me back in season three and they were like, okay, we have a whole, like, arc.
- [32:10]
Sophia Bush
Wow.
- [32:10]
Carrie Preston
And then I was able to go, oh, okay. And then I worked with the director and the show, you know, worked with them, and they kind of pushed me, you know, to go further with what I was starting to do.
- [32:24]
Sophia Bush
Yeah. Well, it's interesting because as someone who's observing, you know, from the outside into your world, I see that there's so much wonderful praise for your depiction of this character that people feel really seen and really represented and they talk about how she is a really positive example of neurodivergence and brilliance. And folks talk about, you know, she's got traits of adhd. And I'm like, thank you for putting us on TV to, you know, traits that could be identified as being on the autism spectrum. Are those things that you have studied and consciously thought about? You know, do. Do you. Do you get into a Columbo esque character with obsession for detail and pattern recognition and things that we now know are often signs of that sort of like neurodivergent sparkliness? Did they come naturally because of something like you said that was on the page and then you started to realize what you were representing, or is it kind of a mixed bag of all of it?
- [33:32]
Carrie Preston
Well, I'm very careful and the writers and everyone on the show is very careful to never diagnose her because I find that that would then become a definitive. And then I would have to represent that thing, and. And then I would ultimately. And we would ultimately not live up to that because everybody is different. What I find really fascinating about playing her is that. And what people seem to respond to is that she is decidedly that who she is. And it's a unique and singular set, just like anybody who's on what. The spectrum of humanity.
- [34:27]
Sophia Bush
Yes.
- [34:28]
Carrie Preston
You know what I mean? And so I've honored, you know, that I'm given that responsibility, but also that gift of. And of playing somebody that has that kind of mind that is so unique, that is ingenious and that also tender, vulnerable, kind and. And smart and extremely capable. What I love about it is that I feel like it's. It's a story about a unique person who is entrusted with a great amount of responsibility, but it's also about a woman who's of a certain age who is reinventing herself.
- [35:23]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [35:25]
Carrie Preston
Who isn't settled into. She. She's. She's trying to improve herself. She's trying to change things that she's done in the past, you know, to.
- [35:37]
Sophia Bush
Go love that path. The journey of self discovery, of. Of learning, self inventory. What. What I love about what you're saying is it's. It's so universal. And then I imagine, in a way, because you can see. You see who she is, you have a representation to how her brain works in its own way. But I think the sort of ingenious thing about, not to your point, deciding on any specific term or specific diagnosis is that by being in that spectrum, so many people get to see themselves in you on screen. You know, in a way, being so incredibly specific about who elsebeth is allows you to be universal for so many people.
- [36:23]
Carrie Preston
And I think you just put your finger on. I think just acting, you know, and responsibilities as actors is as specific as possible. So that.
- [36:33]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [36:34]
Carrie Preston
Does become something that everyone can find a way into.
- [36:38]
Sophia Bush
Yeah. I think that's why you're.
- [36:40]
Carrie Preston
That's why you're such a good actor, because you. You understand that.
- [36:42]
Sophia Bush
Oh, that's so kind coming from you. I. I think about the women that you've built this world with as well. I mean, talk about the three of you incredible actors. You, Juliana Margulies, the iconic Christine Baranski. I. I once was at some event with her, and she, like, walked by and I heard myself, and I know she heard me. I went and I was like, oh, don't be the weirdo who, like, gasps because you see this amazing woman. And. And I think about these shows, you know, three of These shows that have built out this world and your. Your. Your creators, you've mentioned them, Robert and Michelle, are they just the coolest people to work with it? I feel as a viewer, like they really love and respect women and our intellect, not just our capabilities as, you know, mothers or leaders or whatever, but. But our prowess. Is it. Is it just. What. What's your sort of experience like on. On that side? You know, how do you all work as a team? How do you figure out what you want the show to look like and feel like? Or have you just been doing it together for so long now that it's almost second nature?
- [37:58]
Carrie Preston
Yeah, I mean, well, the thing about Robert and Michelle King is they are incredibly strong leaders, and part of that leadership is that they empower all of their team. So. And I. I know this because I've also worked with them as a director because I've directed some. I directed some episodes of the Good Fight. And so I got to be a part of, you know, the prep, which is where you really see how. How the people who are in charge of the show convey what it is that they need to do. And so I also feel like they. They build, like, a real ensemble of actors that they keep going back to, and they enjoy working with. Like, they find the people that they. That speak the same language as them, and then they continue to employ them. When I. When we went into Elspeth and this show got picked up to series, you know, one of the first thing I did was I texted Christine Baranski and I texted Juliana Margulies, and I thanked them because I wouldn't be here without them and that I felt this great responsibility and privilege of kind of picking up the baton and. And getting. Carrying it forward. Robert and Michelle did the same thing with one of their former writers who'd been with them, Jonathan Tollens. They passed the baton to him. And John Collins is our showrunner. So their exact producer.
- [39:48]
Sophia Bush
Wow. Wow.
- [39:50]
Carrie Preston
Runs our show. He runs our writers room. He's the one who has really created this world. He took what Robert and Michelle did with the pilot, honored it, and then they gave him the power to really shape it into his show. They're involved. Course, but John is. Is our. Is our guy. I call when he comes to set. I call him Daddy. I'm we. He's very receptive to any input that. That I need to have, which is pretty. I don't really have that much that I need to say because the writing is so great.
- [40:29]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [40:29]
Carrie Preston
And I do so, so great about it. But If I have a question, very receptive. So there is, you know, this sense of not controlling, but leading.
- [40:42]
Sophia Bush
Yeah. Gosh, that's beautiful. And now a word from our sponsors that I really enjoy, and I think you will, too.
- [40:51]
Laura Kim
This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. May is mental health awareness month, and Talkspace, the leading virtual therapy provider, is telling everyone, let's face it in therapy, by talking or texting with a supportive, licensed therapist at Talkspace, you can face whatever is holding you back, whether it's mental health symptoms, relationship drama, past trauma, bad habits, or another challenge that you need support to work through. It's easy to sign up. Just go to talkspace.com and you'll be paired with a provider, typically within 48 hours. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule. Plus, Talkspace is in network with most major insurers and most insured members have a $0 copay. Make your mental health a priority and start today. If you're not covered by insurance, get $80 off your first month with Talkspace when you go to talkspace.com and enter promo code SPACE80. That's S P A CE80. To match with a licensed therapist today, go to talkspace.com and Enter promo code SPACE80.
- [41:55]
Sophia Bush
It must just be the kind of place that constantly makes you feel like you. You get to grow. I mean, I. I think about, you know, even as you said, you know, you're. I can't believe you're 58. That's. I mean, I'm like, what? But, you know, you talk about your early career, and everyone's looking for the next ingenue, and it is really profound to, at least for me as a viewer, and I would imagine for you as an actor to continue the fact that you're continuing to build your own world, you know, in a. In an industry where we've all been told, well, once you're 40, you'll never work again. And it's like, I'm gonna work forever. And look at you. You're building this space. And. And this show is so wonderful, and the. The reception to it is so wonderful. And, you know, you get to work with people that you love. You get to be partners with Jonathan. You know, your husband came and guest starred on your show. It's like, you look like you're having a really good, good time.
- [42:59]
Carrie Preston
I am. I'm having the time of my life. I am. And when I'm not, you know, because it's hard schedule is. You know, it's a tough schedule. Like, you know, we're doing those episodes in eight or nine days, and I'm in pretty much every, you know, scene. So it's. It's. I don't have very much. And whenever I'm not on, whenever I'm not saying words, I'm learning other words. And so it's. You know, it's. There's a lot of juggling. But I, like, I've always been a multitasker. I mean, I think that's one thing that Elizabeth Tasioni and I have in common, is that we both are pretty good at multitasking.
- [43:35]
Sophia Bush
Yeah. I love that.
- [43:37]
Carrie Preston
So I can bring that, you know, to. To the character and stuff, but I am having the time of my life because that. It has come at this time. I mean, I. I said I was 58. I will be at 58 in two months, but I feel like I'm already 58. But I'm 57. I will be 58 in two months. But. But, yeah, so I feel like, you know, it's not. I don't want to waste a moment, you know.
- [44:01]
Sophia Bush
Well, you're. You're on fire.
- [44:04]
Carrie Preston
As long as they'll let me do it, I'm gonna, You know, I'm gonna do it.
- [44:07]
Sophia Bush
Does it. Does this experience at this stage? Because to your point, you know, you've. You've been a working actor for a long time, you've got an incredible career, but does this moment, you know, the. The toughness of the schedule. Sure. But also the excitement to be doing it, and. And you so clearly love the work, the writing, all of it. Does it shift your perspective on your own midlife? Does it. Does it kind of reconstitute for you what longevity means? Feels like. Looks like.
- [44:40]
Carrie Preston
Yeah, yeah, it really does. I mean, sometimes I have these thoughts of, like, why did they give this. Somebody give me this responsibility? When I was, like, in my, you know, where it was, I had this endless amount of energy, and I thought, well, because that wasn't the time, like, you know, and. And it wasn't lined up. It wasn't lined up when I was doing shows in my 30s that they were all, like. All the leads were like, dudes, you know, so. You know what I mean? It was just like, yeah, it had to be now. It had to be time when, you know, I was going to be the show that comes on after Kathy Bates.
- [45:17]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [45:17]
Carrie Preston
You know, like, it just sort of needed to be that, and maybe I needed to Have a little bit more of a. Maybe I needed to be a little more seasoned to bring, you know, some of the. I don't know, just some of what it is to be at this. At this late. In my late 50s and doing this, you know, it's a different person than was back then. And I also think it's just tremendously interesting.
- [45:47]
Sophia Bush
Sorry to cut you off there, but I'm like, wait. It's so cool.
- [45:51]
Carrie Preston
Yeah, I know. I feel that. I feel that way, and I feel. I feel a responsibility to represent a woman of that age who's not attached to a man, who's not about, you know, beauty on the outside as much as she is about beauty in the brain and. And love and joy and positivity and overcoming things and beyond things and just all. She's infectious. It infects me.
- [46:22]
Sophia Bush
Yeah. And everything about her, you know, from the way her brain works to Even the way she moves through the world. I mean, I. I'm obsessed with her obsession with tote bags. You know, it's such a fun little quirk. It's a detail that is fun for me as an actor to think about you coming up with. And I, you know, I love having, like, the big motivational, artistic conversation. And then part of me is so curious, like, what do you think is the weirdest thing in her bag?
- [46:57]
Carrie Preston
Well, we did a whole episode where we had a Konmari type person played by the brilliant Mary Louise Parker, who. I'm obsessed with icon. I mean, the icons that I've gotten to work with on this show.
- [47:11]
Sophia Bush
Beyond. Yeah, beyond.
- [47:14]
Carrie Preston
But anyway, she makes me go through my totes. And I was very worried. I even said to John Tolan's. I was like, I. I called him. I don't usually do that, but I called him and said, I am worried. I don't know if we want to open up the mystery bag. Don't you think it's more interesting. Curious about what's in the bag than showing? Showing.
- [47:35]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [47:36]
Carrie Preston
You know, because it's sort of like we don't want to talk too much about her brain because it's more interesting and surprising to just watch her do her thing.
- [47:47]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [47:48]
Carrie Preston
And. And he assured me that they, you know, that we would do it in a way that was responsible. And I was. And I, you know, I said, well, we need to at least talk about her emotional connection to it, that it's not just. She's carrying a bunch of random things around.
- [48:01]
Sophia Bush
Right.
- [48:01]
Carrie Preston
There's a reason carrying them around. And I always think about it in terms of. It's like a security blanket or it's something that, you know, makes her feel confident, armored. It's like armor she's bringing out into the world. And. And that just means that there are a lot of things in there that she thinks that you might need.
- [48:22]
Sophia Bush
Yep.
- [48:23]
Carrie Preston
That could be a sandwich because she's kind of hungry later, and some string cheese. But it could be also, you know, some, you know, the Encyclopedia Britannica, an abacus, like, just whatever it is that she thinks she might need to help unlock something, you know, and so I think about it that way. And then. And I've talked about this before, I made the decision pretty early on that when Elspeth shows up to solve the crime, to make the arrest, she doesn't have the bags because she doesn't need.
- [49:06]
Sophia Bush
She's not in the process of solving. Right.
- [49:10]
Carrie Preston
I love that she's unencumbered and. And she's, you know, stands in her own, you know, confidence and truth in that moment.
- [49:21]
Sophia Bush
Wow, that's very, very cool. That's very cool. Are there other things you've found her through in terms of decision making? Like, do you know what her favorite cocktail is? Does she have a favorite snack? Is there. Is there, like, a must have wardrobe item for her that goes along with her toolkit in her bags? You know, the things you've selected for her that we might know or that we might not?
- [49:54]
Carrie Preston
Yeah, I mean, well, first of all, I. There's. We have the most genius costume designer working in the business. Daniel. Awesome. Who's costumed. Good wife. Good fight. Elspeth, like, the through line. The character doesn't exist without him.
- [50:09]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [50:09]
Carrie Preston
I go up and stand there like a paper doll, and he hands me the character.
- [50:15]
Sophia Bush
Yes.
- [50:16]
Carrie Preston
So I totally, completely trust him. Our fittings are epic. The closet that he builds for me, it takes, like, almost half of the whole, you know, thousands of clothes, and they're just so. So delightful and so specific. Started coming up with this idea that because Elizabeth has moved to New York and she's such a tourist and she loves New York so much.
- [50:44]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [50:45]
Carrie Preston
Wherever she goes and whatever crime and the world of the crime that she goes into, she gets a little something from it.
- [50:52]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [50:53]
Carrie Preston
You know what I mean? So we find, like, tote bags from the. Or little. Look. We had an episode about tennis. So I have, like, a little brooch sometimes that I wear this tennis racket. And then, like, towards the end of the season, Dan came in and he was like, don't you think Elspeth is probably playing pickleball by now. I mean, I would have never thought of that, but I'm like, of course she's playing pickleball, because everyone's playing pickleball. And I'm sure she's terrible at it, but she's gonna go in there and try to do it. So he had this little brooch that was pickleball, a little pickleball paddle. And we just put that on. So he. I wore so closely with the costume department and with him, you know, I'll come, I'll find some. Some knitted thing. Then I'll say, don't you think that she needs to be wearing this? And we will put that in there or, you know, a certain boat or whatever. And so we. We find those little details together as far as, like, way on. Way. Earlier on in, In Good Wife, Elizabeth said, I. You don't want to see me drunk. You don't want to see me drinking. I'm. I'm so.
- [52:00]
Sophia Bush
She doesn't drink, so that's right.
- [52:04]
Carrie Preston
But she. But she loves Shirley Temples. So the props department, what they will do with a Shirley Temple, for me, like, we will show up and they'll say, do you think there's a place for. For you to have a Shirley Temple if we do like a scene in a restaurant or a bar? And so we did this. We did this episode that was set in a restaurant. It was about a chef played by the. Again, another person I worship. Pamela Adlon played a chef. Brilliant. And we're in this, like, super high end restaurant. And they had, you know, Shirley Temple. And I was like, no, let's put it in the tiniest little glass, because all the food is tiny. Yes, Tiny Shirley Temple. And then I'm gonna try to drink it.
- [52:49]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [52:52]
Carrie Preston
So they put it there and. And I was like, they're gonna cut this. But I did this whole lotsi with this whole bit with the. Trying to drink the thing with the thing and the little umbrella and stuff, and just like, having the hardest time with it. And thankfully they kept it in the cup fighting a lot of my little. I call them El's bits bits because, you know, they have to time and plot and story, but when they keep my little. My little moments and I, I'm always very. I feel victorious.
- [53:22]
Sophia Bush
That's so much fun. And, you know, it isn't lost on me that you, with this platform that you've built, you've, you know, not only leaned into such great content, but you use your platform for advocacy. You know, you support LGBTQ rights. With glaad, you work with the Michael Fox foundation and support folks battling Parkinson's. You know, how. How do you decide what you're going to lend your time to and, and, and how you're going to show up?
- [53:56]
Carrie Preston
Like, yeah, I think it's just, you know, being raised by people my parents were very much about, you know, supporting acceptance, love, and, and, and advocating for people who maybe don't have a voice or people who disenfranchised and, you know, early. Early on, like in college and stuff, I, I always feel like, still am. Feel like even though I'm married to a man, I'm very much part of the queer community. So I feel like I want to bring a voice to them, and especially now when their voices are being taken away. Early on in my career, when I started directing, I started making movies and projects for the LGBTQ audience 20, 25 years ago, there wasn't as much content. And so, And I wanted my, My producing partners and I wanted to make, you know, projects that were less about maybe romantic relationships and more about, you know, coming. Coming of age or. We made a movie called Ready, okay. About a little boy who wants to be a cheerleader and just mother and how she's struggling with her kid being different. And so, you know, making something that you could show at a P. FLAG meeting, you know, something that you could take your parents to and go, this is. This is. This is what I'm going through.
- [55:37]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [55:39]
Carrie Preston
Ways to do that and tell stories that way. I do believe that stories have the power to change the world. And so we as artists are responsible for changing the world a lot of the time. So I feel, you know, a lot of privilege and responsibility in telling those stories and, and bringing them to light. And then also, you know, my father passed away from complications from Parkinson's, so watch him go through that for 20 years. One of my best, best friends has Parkinson's. My, you know, a cousin mine has Parkinson. Like, it's. There's a lot of people who have Parkinson's in this world, and they're making great strides. Michael J. Fox. I remember I did an episode of Spin City way back, got to, you know, meet Michael J. Fox, and when he was first starting to deal with Parkinson's and just being so impressed with how he was using his platform, and he said his organization has made. Yeah, it's just so important to keep an eye on that so that we, as, you know, as, as the, as the audience and we as fellow humans can continue to support that and bring you know, a light to that so that it continues to grow.
- [56:55]
Sophia Bush
And yeah, it's beautiful. And I think when you get to harness, you know, the attention that your job comes with and, and help make sure you can transmute that toward other folks who need it, it's such a, it's such a gift that comes with all the other crazy stuff that, that, you know, we do and deal with. And yeah, it's always really exciting for me to, to see the things that people are so passionate about.
- [57:21]
Carrie Preston
Yeah, I know, I know. And I do it in a quieter way, I think maybe than, than some people would wish. But I just feel like I want to be, you know, I want to just do the work and be authentic to, to the, to the activism while still being, you know, myself, which is somebody who is just a loving and, you know, joyful person, you know, out in the world as well. You know, somebody who's appreciative. Appreciative of, of the place that I'm, you know, privileged to be in.
- [57:55]
Sophia Bush
Yeah, as well. I think that's great. And now a word from our sponsors.
- [58:04]
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- [59:18]
Sophia Bush
When you sit and you think about, you know, continuing this show, you love being in this place in your life that you love and you know, what comes next. What, what feels like your work in progress now.
- [59:33]
Carrie Preston
I mean, I'm constantly trying to do this, do it a spiritual work. You know, I mean, I, I like my, my parents, we weren't, we weren't religious per se, but we were very. And you know, my parents were always, you know, my parents had a commune at one point. You know, we were very like, trying to find an alternative way of thinking.
- [60:01]
Sophia Bush
I love that.
- [60:03]
Carrie Preston
Been interested in mindfulness practice, Buddhism, you know, meditation. And it took me a long time to get to a place where I had like a daily practice because I'm a hummingbird. I'm really hard to like, settle.
- [60:18]
Sophia Bush
I feel that.
- [60:20]
Carrie Preston
And so I, that's my work is that I'm constantly trying to ground down into mindfulness and, and finding compassion and empathy for myself and for. And that's sort of my daily. I just started a, what I'm calling a Gratitex thread with my closest, some of my day ones, my ride or dies girlfriends. And you know, we're just. Every day we grab a text and it's just all you gotta do is just three things, just three things that you're grateful for. And it really does open up a conversation and open up a way of looking at your life and, and looking at the world and trying to be aware of, constantly aware of, you know, not everybody has the privileges that I have and, you know, figuring out a way to harness that empathy and compassion for the good.
- [61:30]
Sophia Bush
Yeah, that's beautiful because you're, you know, you're talking about the things out there and the things in here, and I think it's special to try to hold all that space. It's special work.
- [61:45]
Carrie Preston
It's, yeah, necessary, I think, especially for where we are in the world right now, which is kind of divided and.
- [61:51]
Sophia Bush
Yeah, you know. Well, I so appreciate it. I mean, I'm, I'm so inspired by you as an artist and it's a real treat to get to sit and just be inspired by you as a human. We all love the show. Thank you for all that hard work and all those crazy hours. You really, you bring us all a lot of joy.
- [62:12]
Carrie Preston
Thank you. Thank you. And thanks for having. Thanks for such a loud, nurturing conversation.
- [62:17]
Sophia Bush
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- [63:22]
Laura Kim
This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. May is mental health awareness month, and Talkspace, the leading virtual therapy provider, is telling everyone, let's face it, in therapy, by talking or texting with a supportive licensed therapist at Talkspace, you can face whatever is holding you back, whether it's mental health symptoms, relationship drama, past trauma, bad habits, or another challenge that you need support to work through. It's easy to sign up. Just go to talkspace.com and you'll be paired with a provider, typically within 48 hours. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You'll meet on your schedule. Plus, Talkspace is in network with most major insurers, and most insured members have a $0 copay. Make your mental health a priority and start today. If you're not covered by insurance, get $80 off your first month with Talkspace when you go to talkspace.com and enter promo code SPACE80. That's SPA CE80. To match with a licensed therapist today, go to talkspace.comand enter promo code SPACE80.
- [64:22]
Carrie Preston
You're listening to an iHeart podcast.