Work in Progress: Grace Van Patten

Summary

Podcast Summary: Work in Progress with Sophia Bush

Episode: Work in Progress: Grace Van Patten
Date: October 8, 2025
Host: Sophia Bush
Guest: Grace Van Patten

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Overview

This episode features actress Grace Van Patten, the rising star of Hulu’s Amanda Knox series and Tell Me Lies. Host Sophia Bush and Grace engage in an intimate, lively, and at times profound conversation about Grace’s artistic journey, her creative family roots, the transformative experience of portraying Amanda Knox, and navigating public perception as women in the media. The discussion covers everything from childhood dreams, the chaos and joy of acting, to hard-won insights about resilience and self-acceptance.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Childhood, Family, and Creative Roots

Discovering Passion for Acting

• Grace reflects on her younger self not imagining a future as an actor, despite loving school plays and acting classes.

  "Acting was something that I enjoyed so much as a kid ... but it's something I never saw as a career and I think that's because I didn't have as much faith in myself." — Grace Van Patten (06:27)

• She acknowledges the unpredictability of the profession—witnessed up close via her director father—and how that deterred her from seeing it as a viable path.

Creative Family Dynamics

• Grace recalls her parents’ encouragement of creative exploration for her and her siblings.

  "They always encouraged us to, like, find our form of expression, whatever that may be. And for me, it was acting and sports ... those are the bookends of time." — Grace Van Patten (11:23)

• Her middle sister is also an actor, appearing alongside her in the Amanda Knox series, while the youngest is passionate about basketball.

2. Education, Choices, and Early Breaks

Choosing Acting Over Sports

• Grace faced an early fork: choosing between a sports school and a performing arts conservatory. She attended LaGuardia and immersed herself in acting.

Finding Self-Belief

• After high school, Grace took a gap year, exploring other fields such as philosophy and criminal psychology, before her break came serendipitously when a manager discovered her at a birthday party.

  "I think it took somebody believing in me to be like, okay, maybe it's time I can try this and go for it in some type of real way." — Grace Van Patten (17:22)

3. Growing Up in New York, Love for the City

• Despite now splitting time with other cities, New York remains "magic" and formative for Grace.

  "It's just magic. ... I wanted just some sort of change, but I find it so inspiring and so frenetic." — Grace Van Patten (21:35)

4. On-Set Experiences & Mentorship

Nine Perfect Strangers

• Grace recounts the surreal, isolating, yet bonding experience shooting with Nicole Kidman and Melissa McCarthy in Australia during Covid, staying after filming to travel and live in a van.

  "Once I got there and once everyone was so nice ... it was such a beautiful bond between all of us." — Grace Van Patten (24:12)
  "I stayed in Australia for three more months after shooting and lived in a van for a month ... it was unbelievable." — Grace Van Patten (27:06)

Mentorship on Set

• She learned by observing a range of acting techniques and personalities, describing the project as both educational and unique.

5. The Amanda Knox Project: Preparation and Impact

Origin of the Role

• Grace had long dreamed of playing Amanda Knox, calling her agent about it after the 2016 Netflix documentary.

  "I have a vivid memory of calling my agents at the time saying, I, I need to play her." — Grace Van Patten (40:26)

Portraying Amanda’s Humanity

• The series' approach: blending true crime elements with Amanda’s unique perspective, inspired by her favorite movie, Amélie.

  "Having those Amelie-esque sequences that feel like Amanda's essence ... it's a way to understand her and what happened simultaneously." — Grace Van Patten (43:14)

Collaboration with Amanda Knox

• Amanda herself reached out to Grace before the project, and they developed a collaborative partnership.

  "I bugged her for a bit ... she was just so cool and willing to talk to me about anything." — Grace Van Patten (44:13)

Portraying Resilience

• Grace was struck by Amanda’s ability to create purpose and hope, even in unimaginable circumstances (e.g., helping other prisoners learn Italian), inspiring her portrayal.

  "What she made of an unimaginable moment is so inspiring. I can't imagine having that mentality in a situation like that." — Grace Van Patten (48:12)

Societal Attitudes Toward Women

• Both guests reflect on how women—especially those who are “beautiful and brilliant”—are still judged and dehumanized, making projects like this vital.

  "For some reason ... if you were pretty, it meant you were a slut. ... She was demonized in this way because she went away and was falling for a boy." — Sophia Bush (45:04)

Support from Monica Lewinsky

• Both Amanda Knox and Monica Lewinsky’s input helped ground Grace emotionally in her performance, providing a model of resilience and transformation.

6. Navigating Fame, Public Judgment and Social Media

• Grace discusses the weirdness and irrelevance of media narratives and how to protect one’s sense of self amid public scrutiny.

  "All of this talk and publicizing things that, like, ultimately no one cares. ... People don't connect these people ... as people." — Grace Van Patten (58:00)

• Sophia adds wisdom:

  "Don't compare your insides to other people's outsides because that's what that is." — Sophia Bush (59:59)

7. Hopes for Amanda Knox’s Legacy

• Grace’s hope for the series: humanize Amanda Knox and undo years of one-dimensional, tabloid-driven perception.

  "I just hope people understand her more. That was my goal ... I hope it humanizes her a bit more because it's crazy to see people still not see her as a human being." — Grace Van Patten (61:15)

• Sophia reveals Amanda’s praise for Grace:

  "She literally said she was so blown away by you and that she thinks you should win all of the awards." — Sophia Bush (63:16)

8. Work/Life Balance and Being a “Work in Progress”

• Grace talks about seeking a better work-life balance, creating a home and sense of grounding beyond her work, and the struggle to feel purposeful outside acting.

  "I would love to figure out a better work/life balance. I feel like I haven't figured out real life yet and feeling as purposeful as I do when I'm working." — Grace Van Patten (64:31)

• Sophia advises flexibility and allowing oneself permission not to have everything figured out.

  "You have to give yourself a little bit of permission to not have it figured out." — Sophia Bush (66:25)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Young Dreams:
  "I think she'd be amped. I think she'd be really excited. I don't know if she saw all of this in store for her but she was a very curious kid and now that has turned into a curious adult." — Grace Van Patten (06:01)

• On Industry Reality:
  "People assume if you have any connection to the industry that it's going to be so easy for you and you're like, no, no. The people who have connections to the industry often know how absolutely horrible it is." — Sophia Bush and Grace Van Patten (07:25)

• On Amanda Knox:
  "For someone being scrutinized by her behavior so much, I'm like, what? I was just so fascinated by it." — Grace Van Patten (40:26)

• On Portraying Real People:
  "It just made me even more passionate to tell her story as authentically as possible and, like, show as much as possible what she was going through moment to moment. Nobody knows that." — Grace Van Patten (47:07)

• On Resilience:
  "She had gone through so much at that point ... but was still on a mission to, like, take control of her life." — Grace Van Patten (53:18)

• On Social Media & Public Scrutiny:
  "All of this talk and publicizing things that, like, ultimately no one cares. Like, they don't. They're just, like, trying to make money, whatever the motive is." — Grace Van Patten (58:00)

• On Not Comparing:
  "Don't compare your insides to other people's outsides because that's what that is." — Sophia Bush (59:59)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Grace’s Childhood Perspective: 06:01–07:24
• Family & Creative Influence: 11:23–13:04
• Choosing Acting Over Sports: 15:06–17:22
• Gap Year and Finding a Manager: 16:05–17:51
• New York as ‘Magic’: 21:34–22:14
• Filming Nine Perfect Strangers: 23:38–27:06
• Getting the Amanda Knox Role: 40:26–44:13
• Working with Amanda and Monica Lewinsky: 44:13–47:06
• Amanda Knox’s Resilience in Prison: 48:12–50:00
• Navigating Fame and Scrutiny: 57:38–58:38
• Hopes for Amanda’s Legacy: 61:15–63:16
• Grace's Work/Life Balance Reflections: 64:31–68:39

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Tone & Style

The episode is warm, candid, and thoughtful. Sophia’s empathetic interviewing style elicits authentic, heartfelt responses from Grace, ranging from humorous sibling anecdotes to sobering meditations on resilience, justice, and maintaining self-worth in a chaotic industry. The conversation is peppered with laughter, “aha” moments, and advice, always circling back to the central theme: embracing the messy beauty of being both a masterpiece and a work in progress.

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For Listeners

Whether you’re a fan of Grace Van Patten, fascinated by the Amanda Knox story, or an artist wrestling with purpose and public scrutiny, this episode offers inspiration, wisdom, and reassurance for anyone navigating the grey areas of creative careers, public life, or simply growing up.

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Transcript

[Grace Van Patten]

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[Grace Van Patten]

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[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome back to Work in Progress, friends. This week we have someone I am elated to talk to. As you all know from our wonderful episode with Amanda Knox, I am fascinated with her story. And her story has come to life on Hulu with the twisted tale of Amanda Knox, which is dominating the conversation right now and certainly expanding the already impressive reach of its star, Grace Van Patten. Grace was raised by two creative parents and quickly established her own artistic identity and voice. She has worked with incredible visionaries like Noah Baumbach and Nicole Kidman. Her Hulu series, Tell Me Lies, is on its way back to us for its third season and promises to be even more intense. But my goodness, the intensity of this role. Grace plays Amanda Knox with such a commitment to the mess of it all, the, the fear, the anxiety, the trauma, frankly, of what it's like to be wrongly accused of a heinous crime. And the show really leans into investigating perception, justice, and identity. It's the kind of layered storytelling. An observer, I would say, has become Grace's signature. She gravitates toward complex characters, she amplifies women's voices, and she wants to be part of roles that challenge the way society treats us. She is exactly the kind of artist I am thrilled to sit down with and chat with today. Let's dive in with Grace Van Patten. Hi. Welcome to the show.

[Grace Van Patten]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

I'm so thrilled that you're here.

[Grace Van Patten]

Me too.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

I'm so excited about the project. But before we jump into all the things happening this week in terms for our friends at home, of when we're recording, I actually want to go backwards because I feel like audiences, when you're promoting something or, you know, you're a few years into a series like you are, they know what you've been up to. But I'm always really curious about where people come from. And so I like to ask people from this vantage point that you're at today, if you got to go back and at school or on the playground, hang out with your 8 year old self, do you think you would see the woman you are today and her and do you think she would be so amped to find out what you're up to as an adult?

[Grace Van Patten]

That makes me want to cry. That's so cute. Yeah, I think she'd be amped. I think she'd be really excited. I don't know if she saw all of this in store for her but she was a very curious kit and now that has turned into a curious adult. So we've maintained that. Yeah, it is crazy to think about.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

And I had no, like acting was something that I enjoyed so much as a kid just in like school plays and yeah. Acting classes. But it's something I never saw as a career and I think that's because I didn't have as much faith in myself. And I saw my dad's director. I saw how unpredictable it was and how I didn't see just the glamorous side of it. So it took me a really long time to think that I could do it, that I was even capable of it. So it's interesting to think of me as a kid and the idea I had of like something I love but never thought of pursuing as a job and how lucky I am that those two things can coincide and I get to do what I love as a job.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Totally.

[Grace Van Patten]

So cool.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

I think it's also really interesting because people assume if you have any connection to the industry that it's going to be so easy for you and you're like, no, no. The people who have connections to the industry often know how to.

[Grace Van Patten]

They see that. Absolutely horrible it is.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

And like that it's not steady in any way. That it's not something you can count on.

[Grace Van Patten]

Totally.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

You know, I. I grew up, my dad is also an artist. He's a photographer. And I always planned on going to medical school.

[Grace Van Patten]

Really.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

And then I had an arts requirement. My best friend was like a quintessential theater kid. Always singing in vibrato in the hallways, like doing show tunes. And I was like, I love you, but that's not my thing. Like I like a musical but I don't know that I would be in a musical. And when I did a play and realized how much bigger the world of theater was and I decided to shift my career Path into the arts. My parents were like, what are you thinking? You see how this is? And it's awful, but I think when you're young enough, you kind of go, why not?

[Commercial Announcer 1]

Maybe.

[Grace Van Patten]

Well, because it's fun and it's like playing dress up as a job. Of course. That sounds appealing.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

It's interesting to me that I always land on kind of, what were you up to at 8 or 9? Yeah, because didn't you do the Sopranos when you were eight?

[Grace Van Patten]

I did. I did. I was exactly eight. And it's a really funny thing because, like, a couple years ago, I don't know, it just came up in conversation with my dad. Like, if my dad and I have ever worked together, we both, like, immediately said no, because we. Neither of us remembered that. It was because in my memory, I was eight. I was on set, and I thought my dad was just like, my dad on set, like, telling me what to do, as opposed to being the director. And he just. I know he directed so many episodes, and I had, like, two lines, and I think I was in two episodes and he did one of them. So I just. We.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

You didn't even realize.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah. And I just thought he was like, my dad hanging out on set.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Totally.

[Grace Van Patten]

But that was a. I. That experience. Like, I still get that. That. Because that was my first. I told my dad, my parents, like, I want to act. And they're like, okay. And I kept pushing them and pushing them, and my dad's like, you can audition. That's sure you can audition. And, like, I'll never forget that feeling of walking into Steiner Studios. And my mom was just like, let me go. And I signed in, and I'm, like, waiting. Waiting in the waiting room and feeling those, like, nervous butterflies and walking in, and my dad's, like, in the back row crossing his legs, and he's like.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

I'm not getting involved.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah. He's like, I'm not getting involved. And that's still how I feel. Walking in, it's like. But it's the excitement. Oh, auditioning's horrible. It's so scary. But it's. It's like. I don't know. It's what keeps you on your toes. Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

I love that. Do you think. Because I get what you're saying, it's actually so normal, especially when you grow up on the crew side of things. I would imagine it would probably be pretty crazy to grow up with a parent who was, like, an actor, a Tom Cruise kind of movie star, right?

[Commercial Announcer 1]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Like, that would be nuts. But when you, when you grow up and a parent is crew, like camera directing, set deck, whatever, you see the other side of it. Do you feel like you knew you were in a creative household because your parents were in the arts? Or. Or does that sort of register for you more now as a creative adult?

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah, I definitely knew that it was a creative household. My, My dad is such a creative, artistic soul and my mom is too. And they're, they're very. They're very open, curious people and always, like, always pushed us to find that part within ourselves. I've. I'm one of three sisters, the oldest of three sisters, and they always encouraged us to, like, find our form of expression, what. Whatever that may be. And for me, it was acting and sports and whole. You know, those are the, the bookends of time. Totally. So it definitely felt like that. And my dad, like, we didn't grow up talking about the business a lot. It was not dinner table talk, but whenever he did, it was purely out of passion. Like, I saw him choose things and choose jobs that he was really passionate about and felt connected to, which was so inspiring to me. Like, not as a kid. I didn't know that that was going to be inspiring. But now I am so inspired by that mentality and really, really try and do that with myself now is just like, jump into things that I know I really feel a certain way about.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

Because that's. That's what's most fulfilling to me.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Totally.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

And I think when you do this, when you're part of the sort of traveling circus and you have to pick up your life and move to a random place and do these crazy hours and sometimes you're on a project that's, I don't know, all night shoots, it's like. Yeah, you have to love it.

[Grace Van Patten]

You have to.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

To navigate the sort of weird, technical parts of it.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Are your sisters also really artistic or does everyone kind of have their own.

[Grace Van Patten]

They're all really creative. Yeah. My middle sister is also an actor and she's in the show with me. She plays my sister in the Amanda Knox show. And my other sister's only 14 and she is really into basketball and currently wants to be in the wnba. So I'm like, just go down that path. We gotta get her to the right. I want to be at courtside. Oh, my God, that'd be amazing.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

So fun.

[Grace Van Patten]

Do you go to the Liberty games?

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, all the time.

[Grace Van Patten]

So fun.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

All the time.

[Grace Van Patten]

So fun.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Such a basketball and soccer fan. And I don't know, it's Interesting because you were an athlete and an artist. I was like, the asthmatic kid who clearly was never gonna keep up. So when all the soccer players started to get really good, I was like, and I'm out.

[Grace Van Patten]

You're like, I'm out.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Like, I don't have the lung capacity to run that fast. And now I literally refuse to run unless I'm being chased.

[Grace Van Patten]

Oh, I can't. I can't run.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

I just can't. It's not for me.

[Grace Van Patten]

I find no joy in and out.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

But it's interesting that you guys. You figured out something that's almost, like, somatic. Right. Being an actor, being a dancer, being an athlete. It requires such a relationship to your own body.

[Grace Van Patten]

So true.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

It's kind of cool that your little sister's really into it.

[Grace Van Patten]

She's crushing. She is like, she's so good.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Oh, I love that.

[Grace Van Patten]

And she's going to like, yeah. I could talk about her forever. She's. I love her so much.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Is she in that sort of timeline like you were? Because I know you had to choose between a sports school and a theater school.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yes.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

When you were picking a high school.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

She's just.

[Grace Van Patten]

She's going sports.

[Commercial Announcer 1]

Wow.

[Grace Van Patten]

She has shown interest in acting. But.

[Commercial Announcer 2]

I can't tell.

[Grace Van Patten]

I can't tell yet. If it's, like, you know, her older in the ws.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

I know. Spread it out.

[Grace Van Patten]

It'd be so cool.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Do you feel like looking back, you. You know, how you made that decision? Because it's a crazy thing to think about. And maybe I'm reflecting on this because I'm thinking about it for myself, too, to go home and say to my parents, just kidding. I'm not going to medical school.

[Grace Van Patten]

Right.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

I'm gonna go in the theater. They were like, what do you mean? For you to make that choice and say, okay, if I have to give something up, I'm really gonna bet on myself and I'm gonna do this. Do you feel like you knew where that came from, or do you remember the day that you made the decision?

[Grace Van Patten]

I feel like I never made the decision.

[Commercial Announcer 2]

Really.

[Grace Van Patten]

I feel like I was young enough and didn't feel like I was giving something up. It felt like I was just going for something that I knew I was interested in and didn't. I didn't know where it could go or where it was going or where I even wanted it to go. It was kind of. I graduated high school. I didn't know. Like, I spent. I went to LaGuardia and studied it for four years. So I didn't know what life was out life was like without it, you know, without studying it every day. Yes. It's like a conservatory. You're doing it half your day, every single day for four years. So I really wanted to see how I felt about it without doing it every day, without being surrounded by actors. And so I took a gap year and I took classes in other things that I was interested in, like criminal psychology and philosophy and just like trying to see if anything sparked my interest to, I don't know, divert. Even though I knew acting was, it was in there.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

And then within that year is when I met my manager who just approached me at a birthday party. And when she signed me, I think that was the first moment where I was like, I think it took somebody believing in me to be like, okay, maybe, maybe it's time I can try this and go for it in some type of real way. And then that's kind of when it all started.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Oh, that's so exciting.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

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[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

What is your relationship like to New York now because you grew up here, you went to your conservatory here? Like, what. What's your experience with the city now as an adult who's a working actor and is in and out all the time?

[Grace Van Patten]

I love it.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Do you still love it?

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah, it's. It's magic to me.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, me too.

[Grace Van Patten]

It's like I only left because if I didn't, I'd be here my whole life. And I wanted just some sort of change, you know, I wanted to experience something else and something new. That's. That's the only reason. Because I find it so inspiring and so frenetic and so, yeah, it's just magic.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

It's such an interesting place because I feel like the city has its own kind of rhythm and it's almost like jumping in a river and you just figure out where it's going to take you totally every.

[Grace Van Patten]

That's how I feel about life, too, because I think I grew up here. I'm like, yeah, going to happen today. It's like, yeah, exactly. Very spontaneous. You don't know what to expect. You don't know what's around the corner. Yeah. And that's kind of how. How I live my life.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Now, thinking about things that are happening in your world. Obviously, we're going to get to the Amanda Knox story, which I'm so excited to talk to you about.

[Grace Van Patten]

Me, too.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

But we can't talk about now without also touching on Nine Perfect Strangers because it was so phenomenal. Thanks. And I thought about. There was a moment. I remember watching the show. I. One of my best friends worked on it with her boss, and so we talked so much about what that journey was like, particularly when everyone was filming and the world was shut down. We're so crazy. And I had this moment watching an episode, watching one of your scenes, and it was like some part of me that's in me from my first year going on location to North Carolina and, like, being away from everyone I knew and working on my first show was like, oh, my God, she's also a baby, but, like, she's a baby. On set with Nicole Kidman. What is her experience? Is she okay? Did she have fun? I'm telling you, it was such a surreal thing.

[Grace Van Patten]

Oh, that's so interesting. You could, like, feel it. And you're like, I've been.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

I know, like the girl playing the teenager in me. Right? The teenager in you.

[Grace Van Patten]

That's that. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

You're not wrong.

[Grace Van Patten]

I. I was definitely. It was like. It was such a beautiful experience and such a Sierra experience at the same time. And. And that's only because I think if the state of the world was different, it'd be a lot more positive.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Sure.

[Grace Van Patten]

In terms of, like, mental state.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

The scary part about it was just that I had to go to Australia for six months and I knew that I couldn't leave and that no one could visit me. And so the anticipation of going was the scariest part to me. Once I got there and once everyone was so nice and like. Because we all only had each other, it was such a beautiful bond between all of us. That's so different than any other job I've been on. When people have their people around and. Or their families or whatever it is. And this was really special for that reason. But, yeah, it can get. It can get really lonely, for sure.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

And what was it like for you, being essentially the kid There. I mean, you're going to work with Nicole Kidman and Melissa McCarthy and Bobby and all these people. Like, do you feel like they really were wonderful mentors for you?

[Grace Van Patten]

I do. I really would just, like, sit there and watch all of them, all these personalities, all, like, with seemingly a different approach to it. Like, I. Because it was such an ensemble and all of these amazing people were around me. It was such a good. Like, I had a vignette into, like, all these different types of approaches and processes and, like, personalities. Yeah, completely. And all different parts to, like, it was just. It was so fun to watch.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

That's.

[Grace Van Patten]

And in the most beautiful, beautiful place ever in Byron Bay. And there was no Covid there. So it was like a weird. I was so disconnected from what was going on, too.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Well. Cause you guys were in a bubble, complete bubble, and no one coming in or out. So once they knew no one in the bubble wasn't. Was sick, it was then just no one was sick.

[Grace Van Patten]

No one. And no one in, like, all of Byron Bay, the whole town was. It was completely Covid free.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

What a trip. So what were you guys doing since you couldn't go anywhere? Like, did you just play every board game under the sun?

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah, we played board games. A lot of all of the, like, younger people in the cast lived in this row of townhouses, so we would just kind of, like, felt like friends. Like, we were just, like, hopping around each other's homes, and it was so great. I met a bunch of people there, like, from the town, just, like, going to coffee shops and going to the beach, and it was such, like, a welcoming little community.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

That's so cool.

[Grace Van Patten]

It was really. It was a real. And then I stayed because Covid was still so bad in America, and Australia was, like, Covid free. I stayed in Australia for three more months after shooting and lived in a van for a month and, like, traveled down the coast, and it was.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

That's.

[Grace Van Patten]

It was unbelievable. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Okay, now, as the person who is an adult who thinks about all of the children in my life, how did your parents feel like when you called and you said, hey, mom, dad, I'm shave in a van? What was the response?

[Grace Van Patten]

There I was. I was with my boyfriend at the time, so I wasn't alone.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Okay.

[Grace Van Patten]

I wasn't, like, alone on the road, so they felt comforted by that.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

I watched, like, way too much true crime to not really panic hearing that. But you're here, so obviously you're safe.

[Grace Van Patten]

No, I'm fine. I was fine.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Okay.

[Grace Van Patten]

It felt like a very Safe. Safe place. But. But alone. No, that would be.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

I don't think I could do it. Like, I have such a. I just have a spirit crush on Tracy Ellis Ross. I'm obsessed with her. Everything from, like, Democratic advocacy to her fashion. She's one of my favorite people to hang out around, but she travels alone all the time, and I'm like, girl, have you.

[Grace Van Patten]

Have you never gone anywhere alone? Like, taking a little solo trip anywhere? Not for.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Not that far, I guess, is right for me.

[Grace Van Patten]

Right.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Like, sure. You know, I go places alone all the time, but it's usually for work.

[Grace Van Patten]

Right. Which is a different.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

I'll have a day.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

But I've never packed up two suitcases. And, like, I'm going backpacked for three weeks.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah. Yeah. I've always been curious. I've same. I've taken, like, obviously, work, and then if I'm like. I've taken weekend trips alone and.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Because I'll tack it on to the end of something.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But Right. To make the decision and, like, plan an itinerary for a vacation solo.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

I've never done.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Very inspired by it.

[Grace Van Patten]

Me, too.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

And scared.

[Grace Van Patten]

Me, too. I'd be. Yeah. I hope I do it at some point in my life.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Okay. We're starting the accountability group.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah. Okay.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Be like, where are you going? Where are you going by the end of 2025.

[Grace Van Patten]

Deal. Deal.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

How are things going? Speaking of, you know, many seasons of television, how is everything going with Tell Me Lies? You're going into season three or you just finished.

[Grace Van Patten]

We're in the middle of season three. Yeah. Yeah. We're. We have, like, a month left of shooting and.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Are you still loving it?

[Grace Van Patten]

I am. It's like, oh, my gosh. I could talk to you about this forever. By the way, I started watching One Tree Hill as, like, prep. No. Like, I was like, oh, my God. Like this. That was the show of the time. Yes. I was watching One Tree Hill. I was watching O.C. oh, yeah. And you're so. You're so good. You're so. I had so much. I'm still watching it. Like, I just started this season three.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

It's, like, 187 hours of television, and.

[Grace Van Patten]

I'm gonna watch it all.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Oh, boy.

[Grace Van Patten]

And I'm gonna reach out to you and tell you everything. Oh, my God.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Anytime. Wait, where are you in my show? Since you're three years into your show.

[Grace Van Patten]

No, I just. Season three. I just. I'm just starting One Tree Hill.

[Commercial Announcer 2]

Oh, my goodness.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

So when.

[Grace Van Patten]

When I kind of. I was coming Here I'm like, oh, my God, I wish I had finished it all.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

But no, no, no.

[Grace Van Patten]

To ask you a million questions.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

We have so much to talk about.

[Grace Van Patten]

But, yeah, so much to talk about. How many seasons was that?

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

9.

[Grace Van Patten]

How old were you? Like, what was the age?

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

I. I had been 21 for, I think, two weeks maybe when I moved to Wilmington. Wow. And I remember literally getting there and being like, I can go into a bar, like, with my co workers. This is so weird. Whoa.

[Grace Van Patten]

Like, feeling like a kid but knowing you were able to do adult things.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

But it was also really weird for me because I went to an all girls, like, very nerdy academic, like a prep school, but not one of those, like, old money prep schools. It just happened.

[Grace Van Patten]

Right?

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

An all girls school that wanted to make sure you got into a good college. And so I had gone from there to being a philanthropy chair at USC in the Greek life system. And of course, I was like the charity chick.

[Grace Van Patten]

Did you go to college at usc?

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

I did three years there.

[Grace Van Patten]

Oh, my God.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Because by then I knew I wanted to act, and I. I was planning on going away to a conservatory, and I had met my manager my senior year in high school. I had done a play that was very controversial and wound up with this, like, little write up in the LA Times. Oh, my God. She came to see it, signed me, and was like, if you really want to be an actor, you can't leave la. I auditioned for the BFA program at USC and got in, and so I stayed.

[Commercial Announcer 2]

Wow.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

And then I almost didn't take One Tree Hill because I didn't want to miss my senior year in college because it felt so. It felt like all the movies I grew up on because I hadn't had that high school experience. So then I get to Wilmington and I have to play a boy crazy. Most popular girl in school who's the head of the cheer team. I've never cheered. I didn't go to school with boys. We. There were 55 of us in my entire grade. There was no popularity contest. Like, we were losers.

[Grace Van Patten]

Oh.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

My friends and I were like the awkward theater camp kids. And I had to, like, go be Brooke Davis. And I was like, okay. I guess I can pretend I would.

[Grace Van Patten]

Have never guessed that. You're so natural. And it fit like, oh, my God, you're so. That's. That's crazy.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

When we started re watching the show for Drama Queens.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Other podcast, which was our Covid project, I literally, for the first five episodes was like, oh, my God, I need to stop Trying so hard. I'm trying to. So hard to, like, be the cool girl. And eventually, I think I settled into it.

[Commercial Announcer 1]

Oh, my God.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

It's crazy to me that that's the part I got hired for. Because that was your first job. That was my first regular gig.

[Grace Van Patten]

Wow.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

I had been working a little bit, but that was my first, like, series regular job.

[Grace Van Patten]

That's crazy. And what a. Like to make that decision and think about the other path and think about crazy. Yeah. Yeah. That's. That's nine years. I can't imagine three years. Now it feels like nine. And so I can't imagine nine.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Do you know, because streaming is so different, I feel like most shows go max three or four seasons.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Do you?

[Grace Van Patten]

We don't know yet.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

You find out at the end of every year. Like we used to. Right?

[Grace Van Patten]

Exactly. I mean, like, it feels like it's coming to. Like, it feels. Feels like that would be the appropriate thing to kind of have this. Have it three.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

But it's so good.

[Grace Van Patten]

We don't want to be. It'd be so bittersweet. It really would be, like.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

I. The cast, we are all so close. Like, we are family. Like, they are some of my best friends. And I feel so, like. Like, I cannot imagine if we didn't get along, and for that I'd be sad. Like a group of friends working together, like, it just actually feels. It's just so fun. It's so fun, but also nice to, like, move on.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

How did that job come your way? Was it one of a million things you were going out for? Just trying to. To figure out.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah, it was. I remember first meeting with Megan, the showrunner and hearing about it and. And just thinking it was so. I just love watching those types of things. Toxic relationships, and I just. Blue Valentine's one of my favorite movies. Oh, my God.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

Urban Cowboy. It's, like, painful, but it's, like, exciting, too. And. And. Or at least I found movies like that exciting, but maybe it's just because I found the acting exciting. Like, people just kind of losing their.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Mind because it feels dangerous.

[Commercial Announcer 2]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

It feels dangerous and free.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yes. Yes. Acting wise. Like, it feels like you could just kind of go crazy. And I thought this. This show was such a cool way to show it within young people in a serious way. Like, it. It takes these young people's feelings so seriously.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

Which I had never seen before.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

It's so refreshing.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah. It's fun.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

It's like we have to stop treating young people like they're stupid.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

I hate when we treat audiences like they're stupid. And I hate when we treat characters like they're stupid.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah. Like young, dumb. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. I mean, these characters are when you.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Call them stupid things, but that's just part of growing up.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

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[Commercial Announcer 1]

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[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

You our flu info in a meditation, keeping you calm. Just like a certified Walgreens pharmacist will do if you're a little needle nervous. So walk in or schedule an appointment and Walgreens will handle the rest.

[Commercial Announcer 1]

That's the human kind of help.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Walgreens vaccines subject to availability, state, age.

[Commercial Announcer 2]

And health related restrictions may apply.

[Commercial Announcer 1]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Now through November 4th, shop the annual beauty event and save $5 when you spend $25 on select beauty products. Shop in store or online for items like Dove Body Wash, Native Body Wash, Cetaphil gentle skin cleanser Dr. Squatch body wash, Neutrogena Hydro Boost Water Gel, Dial Liquid Hand Soap and Olay Body wash. And save $5 when you spend $25 or more. Offer ends November 4th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details. Listen to High Key, a new weekly podcast. You better listen. That's literally the definition of being an Aries moon. Just one little spicy off comment. That's all it takes. Everyone loves me at the cancer. And then the Aries comes out and they said, who the is that? No, you're gonna come for me being in an Aries and you have a Sag Moon. Get out of here. But I'm a Capricorn rising, so that honestly balances it out and makes me more likable. Okay, that is your Capricorn talking. Listen to High key on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

I mean, talking about feeling like you could lose your mind in a role. Talk to me about playing Amanda Knox. Where did this even begin? And also, you know, I remember that trial. I. I remember when this was happening. I don't remember if I was in high school or college, but I remember it being everywhere in the media. Obviously. This is pre social media, all of the sort of sleuthing people can do now. There were no, like, amateur crime solvers figuring things out.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

The media could spin stories. They could make you think anything about anyone that they wanted to. And her story was so insane.

[Grace Van Patten]

Insane.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

And. And now as an adult, not only to have seen what's happened with her story and to know she was wrongfully convicted, to know there was literally not a shred of evidence that she was anywhere near this crime, and to realize what they said about her. What was it like for you? Because you had to go back and I would imagine read it, watch it, learn it.

[Grace Van Patten]

Exactly.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Paint me a picture of this.

[Grace Van Patten]

It was shocking, like, because I, I was really young when, when it all happened, so I wasn't, you know, I didn't have a memory of the headlines and the controversy of it, but I knew her name, like, that name was so engraved in my head for some reason, I don't know. But I do remember watching the Netflix documentary in 2015 or 2016 when it came out. And that was around the time I had started acting professionally. And I have a vivid memory of calling my agents at the time saying, I, I need to play her. No, it was. I don't know why I thought I was so intrigued by this story. And by her, like, I thought she was such an individual person. And for someone being scrutinized by her behavior so much, I'm like, what? What? I was just so fascinated by it. So this was a crazy, crazy, full circle, weird, universal thing. I don't know. I don't know. Crazy thing that this happened.

[Commercial Announcer 1]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

So where did you begin when you heard this was happening?

[Grace Van Patten]

I. I think I. When I heard it was happening, it wasn't an open thing. Like, I think they were like, they're offering it to a big name. And then when I heard. And then all of a sudden, Amanda Knox started following me on Instagram. And that was the first, like, oh, my God, what's going on?

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

And I texted my agents right away. I'm like, what? What does this mean? What is this, guys?

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

And they're like, let's see. What do you mean? To know? And from that point on, it was like meeting with KJ and Warren, who, like, I hadn't started my research at that point. I was just so interested in it and wanted to know what the angle was and what was happening with it and hearing KJ's vision for it.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. How did they pitch it to you?

[Grace Van Patten]

Oh, my gosh. It was like. Well, I learned so much just within that. That pitch of it, of how she was setting up the show, but also the approach to it, of she just had such a perspective and. Which is so rare, especially for a true crime show. It's like to not just have it be shock value, morbid, you know, it was. It had the essence of Amanda, which I didn't know yet at the time, but, like, having the tone be Amelie esque, because Amelie was Amanda's favorite movie and it was also her alibi and having those Amelie esque sequences that feel like her feel like Amanda's essence and like, it's a way to understand her and what happened simultaneously. And it. I thought that was so smart, such a smart way to tell this story. And it made me so. It just made me so much more interested. And it was like, it was a very quick process of, like, finding out that I was doing it. And then two months later, we were shooting it. So, like, squeezing in two months, learning as much Italian as I could and speaking Amanda as much as I could.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

I mean, were you guys just on FaceTime all the time?

[Grace Van Patten]

I bugged her for a bit and she was not even bugged. She was like. She was just so cool and willing to talk to me about anything.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, she's so lovely.

[Grace Van Patten]

Oh, my Gosh.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

It really. It strikes me as something so interesting for you to be portraying now because even over the last 20 years, the. The increase in our societal consciousness about the way women get spoken to, spoken about, portrayed who they get to be. You're too much of this. You're not enough of that has grown in ways that are so relieving and also I think, not enough.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

But I. I think about hearing about that story and from. From today, looking back and we had her on the show.

[Grace Van Patten]

I can't wait to listen.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. When the show is coming out. And she's so incredible, so smart. What really struck me about her is she's so intelligent. I mean, she's a brilliant woman. And for some reason, particularly when we were on kind of college aged, you weren't allowed to be beautiful and brilliant. If you were pretty, it meant you were a slut. It meant you were easy pickings for, you know, some boy. What a hideous phrase. Like.

[Grace Van Patten]

No. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

She was demonized in this way because she went away and was falling for a boy. Like.

[Grace Van Patten]

Right.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

What's more pure or sweet than that?

[Grace Van Patten]

She's 20 years old in Italy and. And like, knew. Knew a guy for seven days and had a crush, was exploring it and was living life. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

A man would never be judged for that. But we've all been through it. And it was so crazy because she and I got to talk about our experiences. Granted, very different, but also similar kind of cousin y, if you will, with media at a young age. And then to talk with Monica about it, you know, the. The woman who knows maybe better than anyone what the media can do. Yeah. To a young woman who's just a human.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Who's fallible and also really, really intelligent.

[Grace Van Patten]

God, I've. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Was it crazy for you to get to know and then get to embody Amanda, but also to have Monica Lewinsky be involved and just. Just to be able to hear their stories for your own kind of like, emotional actor grounding.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah. All of it. As a human. As an actor. Like, both of those women are so inspiring on how they've come out the other side of being treated like that. And so that was just on a human level, listening to them and being inspired. Inspired by that. By just two strong, badass women.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

Was amazing to be in the presence of and in terms of playing the part. It just made me even more passionate to tell her story as authentically as possible and, like, show as much as possible what she was going through moment to moment. Nobody knows that. Like.

[Commercial Announcer 2]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Is there Something that you learned from her, you know, while you guys were getting close and you were figuring out how to portray this, something that maybe you hadn't known.

[Grace Van Patten]

So everything. I. I mean, there were things that I. It's like, it's. Everyone's guilty of it. Like, of course I assumed how she felt in prison. Yeah, of course I assumed. Assumed how she felt during the interrogation. But that's all, like, that's part of the problem. Right. It's like reading the headlines and being like, oh, she probably felt like this, but it's like, no. And now the show can show how she really was in these moments and. And what. What shocked me and. And what was so beautiful to me is how she handled it every step of the way. Like, of course, prison was traumatic and unfathomable, but the way she accepted her reality and turned it around, and to be like, well, if I'm here, I'm gonna make the best of it. And every day gave herself a purpose, whether that was learning Italian or helping other prisoners who couldn't read or write. Like, what she made of an unimaginable moment is so inspiring. And I, Like, I can't imagine having that mentality in a situation like that.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

So, I mean, it's. It takes the idea of resilience and, like, puts it in the stratosphere to me.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah, exactly. It's going on a solo vacation time. Oh, my God.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

To space. And for real, not for, like, 10.

[Grace Van Patten]

Minutes, like, on an actual space spaceship alone. You're driving it.

[Commercial Announcer 1]

Yes.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

You're just there. It's really. I mean, it's so incredible. And to your point, for our friends at home, you'll remember from Amanda's interview that she. I mean, she was doing justice work in prison, helping these women not only learn skills, but defend themselves.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

And to take a situation which I think the world, knowing what was true on the other side would have been, like, totally okay if you curled up in a ball and cried for.

[Grace Van Patten]

Exactly. Which is what I was expecting, like, gone through. That's, like, the natural. That's where I would go naturally to be like, you must be. That must have ruined you, you know? But to hear that it didn't was like, you can get through. You can. Like, there is a way out of things.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

And something I really appreciate is, is her willingness to be very forthcoming about. Yes, I. This was traumatic. I am different than I was before, but that doesn't mean I don't have the capability to have purpose, have joy, have a life on the other side. And I am really inspired by the way that she and Monica and I know you as her in the show model the sort of human ability to expand, to hold those oppositional things at the. The same time.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah. I mean, just in terms of playing her before at all and then now is like, working on how to differentiate those spirits.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Yes. Like your energy.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah. Yeah. And what that difference was. That's. That's not the obvious thing.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Okay. I love this. This is like the inside the Actors Studio moment we get to have. What was your. As an actor? What was the thing that helped you find that? How did you find the before and the after spirit of this woman for yourself?

[Grace Van Patten]

I mean, most importantly, speaking to her and being like, just trying to understand where she was at mentally. But it just felt like the. The lights were like it was on a dimmer. It was kind of like the spirit was on a dimmer a little bit. And. Which isn't. That's just. That's just how I decided to differentiate it. That's not coming from Amanda, but just, like, in terms of showing it in a series where we don't have time to see the full evolution of it is. Yeah. Having that. The spirit you do see in the beginning with the, like, naive, excited, whimsical, curious, like, life is huge to. I just went through something so incredibly, like, unimaginable, but still have the strength. Like. Yeah, that's. That was the crazy thing. It was like. Yes. She had gone through so much at that point in the present day but was still on a mission to, like, take control of her life. And that. That was like, there was no point of weakness. It was all coming up with a plan to. To persevere through it and just, like, get through it. And that was the interesting thing to find. As opposed to being. Being, like, happy and then she's a little bit less happy.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

No, it's like, like, it's like human meat.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah. And she's so much deeper than that too. Like, she. And she's so articulate with her emotions and her feelings that, like, that helped me so much. That helped me so much. Be like, oh, yes, of course. You're explaining this so well so that I. Let me try and.

[Commercial Announcer 2]

And.

[Grace Van Patten]

And show that as best as possible.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. Be in it with you in a way.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah. Blessing. And all I had to do was think of her in those moments to, like, feel anything.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

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[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

And it strikes me, too, for you at this point in your career, to have gone through this journey and to have learned with her, essentially, and also with Monica. Does it help you kind of reframe your own experience in the public eye with the Internet or with the press? Whether, by the way, it's good or bad about yourself, Like.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

However other people talk about you, you know, because for me, vulnerably, it's. It's always been weird, and it still feels weird.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

You know, I have these moments where I'm, like, out of a whole life. This is the thing you want to bug me about? For what?

[Grace Van Patten]

You know, and, like, knowing that people don't care also.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

Like, all of this talk and. And publicizing things that, like, ultimately no one cares. Like, they don't. They're just, like, trying to make money, whatever the motive is.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, exactly.

[Grace Van Patten]

And that's how it was with Amanda. Her story was selling.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

People didn't care.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

People were.

[Commercial Announcer 1]

That.

[Grace Van Patten]

They were scrutinized her. They just saw the words that was gonna then cash them a check. Like, they don't connect these people in the public eye, like actors or, you know, Amanda going through this as people, and that's.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

You're human.

[Grace Van Patten]

Exactly. That's a scary part. That's a scary part about it.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Grace Van Patten]

And being around both Amanda and Monica and knowing their stories, of course, that's, like, scary, because there's a version of that that is, of course, possible being an actor. But. But I also saw how they handle it, and I'm like, okay, there's. That doesn't have to. If. If God forbid, that happens in a. In a harmful way, there. There is a way to handle it.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

So in a way, it helps you not necessarily feel so pressurized by it.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it exists. Like, if it's not in the. If it's not on the headlines of huge news outlets, it's on Instagram, it's on Tick tock. Like there's no way around not being spoken about good or bad. And I don't know, just delete the.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Apps from time to time.

[Grace Van Patten]

I just don't look at. I really just don't look at it.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

I don't either. You can't.

[Grace Van Patten]

Sorry, Carrie.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Your publicist is like, damn it, that.

[Commercial Announcer 2]

Was a great article.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah, I've. Yeah, yeah. It's hard for me.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

The, the phrase. I always come back to that A friend said to me many years ago that my audience probably knows I've said ad nauseam by now, but is, don't compare your insides to other people's outsides because that's what that is. I like that whether it's in print or it's online or it's anything on a screen or in a paper is just the outside.

[Grace Van Patten]

Totally.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

We are three dimensional, multifaceted, wonderful, fallible, messy people.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

And like the minute you start to try to flatten yourself to compare to some flat thing somewhere, it's like.

[Grace Van Patten]

So it's dangerous. It's a dangerous game.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. I say toss it it out and like be in your three dimensional.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah. And yeah. Have confidence in who you are and that you know who you are and no one else does.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

So now that the whole series is out there for people and like, that's my. I'm like, tap on the mic. Y' all better be caught up at home. And if you're not, catch up. But now that it's out in the world and, and it's. It sort of has breathing room of its own. How do you hope it'll reframe Amanda's legacy?

[Grace Van Patten]

I just hope people understand her more. Like that was, that was my goal through it all. Like, of course, as a show, I hope people are able to just reconsider maybe their preconceived ideas and form an opinion based on the. These facts and what you see in the show as opposed to the crazy headlines and the bias that was fed to them. But for me, I really, I really hope people like are reminded that this was a 20 year old girl going through this and I tried to understand her as best as possible so that the audience did too. And I just hope it humanizes her a bit more because it's crazy to see people still not see her as a, as a human being. So I hope that, I hope that comes across and changes people's minds.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. I think that's the most powerful piece of this medium we all get to play in.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yes.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

When you just read about something, it's so easy to judge a person. Things seem very black and white. But when you watch a human go through something, when you watch a character make a mistake, learn a lesson, grow, whether that's a fictional character or someone, you know, real like, in this experience for you, I think we're so much more willing to see their humanity and root for them even when they. They screw up.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

And I hope that this woman who was accused of screwing up in front of the whole world, who didn't, gets a little bit of relief. You know, she. It feels to me like she really deserves to be let up off the mat.

[Grace Van Patten]

She does. She really does. I hope she feels that. I hope she feels like this story was told in the way that she wanted it to be.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

I know she's so proud of this story. I hope I won't get in trouble for revealing this, but I obviously, I agree with her. You did the most tremendous job on this show. But on our show, she literally said she was so blown away by you and that she thinks you should win all of the awards. And that is a direct quote.

[Grace Van Patten]

That's so sweet of her.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

So I hope we get to speak that into existence for.

[Grace Van Patten]

Oh, that's. I'm just happy she's happy. That was like, I just wanted her. I like after her being. Her story being told for her for 18 years, she had to feel good about how she was being portrayed.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

She deserves that.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Every. Everyone. Everyone deserves to tell their. Their own story. It's just rare that we. That we get to.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Tell me about it.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Well, when you look out, you know, at what's ahead, third season of your show, this, this amazing project wrapped up for you, what. Whether it's actually professional or personal, what feels like it's next? What feels like your work in progress?

[Grace Van Patten]

I feel like I would love to figure out a better work life balance. I feel like I haven't figured out real life yet and feeling as purposeful as I do when I'm working. And I know that that's not my purpose. So it's like I feel like finding that is really important to me right now and doing the things that. That do give me purpose when I'm not at work and make me happy and figuring out a routine and like, because I'm. It's like a free for all and I. And I just would love to work on figuring that out a bit more and balancing that out and like, decorating my home that I've had for two years, that's like. Has nothing in it and like creating a sanctuary and just. Just making, you know, putting. Piecing my life together piece by piece so that I feel just more solid and grounded when I'm not doing the thing I love, which hopefully is a lot and for a long time, but still got to figure out the. The real important. Real important part. I would love some advice, if you have any.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Oh, I have. I have so many thoughts. I've made these mistakes so you don't have to.

[Grace Van Patten]

Well, I act. I ask actors all the time because it's like, no matter what age. Like, I've asked way older actors and they haven't figured it out. I've. I've. But I know people my age who have, like, I don't. I don't know what it takes to figure it out, but I. Yeah, I would love some.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Well, I think you have to give yourself, like, a little bit of permission to not have it figured out. Because the conundrum of us is there's never a routine.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

You go to work and you learn your 10 pages, and then you immediately have to forget it. And they don't give you your call time until you wrap. You can't make any plans. You can't book a dentist appointment. You don't even know if you can go to your best friend's wedding. And if you really get addicted to a routine, the absolute irrelevance of your routine and your needs will make you crazy when you have to go to work.

[Grace Van Patten]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

But if you can't figure out a routine that is something you can hold with an open hand, then when you wrap a job, if you're like me, you'll spend five days spinning around your house in circles, going, well, which thing should I do first? And then you'll beat yourself up because you haven't gotten anything meaningful done in five days.

[Grace Van Patten]

Right.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

So it's like e on either end. You feel a little paralyzed, of course. Of course. Either a. A total lack of choice or an overabundance of choice. I feel like it's taken me until, like, about the last year, really, to start to get into a.

[Grace Van Patten]

A middle ground of the two kind of thing.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. It's like I've started to learn to ride the seesaw, and now it feels fun.

[Grace Van Patten]

That's great.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

So I have some.

[Grace Van Patten]

I love that.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

I won't be like, I have advice for you. Like, none of us know what we're doing. That never Changes. But I do have a few things that are like, try these and see which one works.

[Grace Van Patten]

I. God, I would love to hear it.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Do it.

[Grace Van Patten]

Because I also love, like, I think it's why I wanted to be an actor, too, because I love the idea of no routine. I'm, like, not a type a person at all. I love not having a plan, and I love making a plan right now and the idea of traveling to different places. And that was a huge part of me wanting to do it, of experiencing different cities and people and whatever. But I think I'm like, it's more of, like, a fear of when I get older and I'm done with that mentality. Like, am I going to be stranded in, like, an empty house with a mattress on the floor and be like.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Help like two egg crates for your side table. So it also could be cute.

[Grace Van Patten]

Damage control. Yeah, I'll figure it out. But. But yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Okay, good.

[Grace Van Patten]

I don't know.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

I have a list. I have a list.

[Grace Van Patten]

Okay, great. Right.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Thank you for today. I'm so happy for you. I love the show. I mean, I love all the shows, but particularly this. This project is just so amazing. And you crushed.

[Grace Van Patten]

Thank you so much.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

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[Grace Van Patten]

What kind of man would let this happen to his family?

[Commercial Announcer 1]

Inspired by shocking actual events, I'm working.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

On a story about the Murdaughs. Their abuses of power are playing out in real time.

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Starring Academy Award winner Patricia Arquette and Jason Clark.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

It's only cheating if you get caught.

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Hulu Original series Murdoch Death in The Family premieres October 15th on Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

[Grace Van Patten]

This is an I Heart podcast.