Work in Progress: Jeannie Mai

Summary

Work in Progress with Sophia Bush: Jeannie Mai

Aired: January 21, 2026
Host: Sophia Bush
Guest: Jeannie Mai

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Episode Overview

This candid and enlightening episode features Emmy-winning television host, producer, and cultural commentator Jeannie Mai. The discussion centers on Jeannie’s journey with perimenopause and the new docuseries she’s executive producing, Balance: The Perimenopause Journey. Jeannie and Sophia explore the hidden realities of perimenopause, the broader cultural silence surrounding women’s health, dismantling shame, and the power of community support. The conversation is both personal and universal, blending humor, vulnerability, and advocacy in true "Work in Progress" style.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Embracing Age and Changing Narratives (03:20–09:15)

• Jeannie shares reflections on her 47th birthday and the evolving perception of age:

  • “I’m like a shiny, brand new 47. And I’m getting into the skin right now... that age is so crazy to me. Like, it’s so grown up.” (05:46, Jeannie)
  • Both agree that today’s women are redefining what aging looks and feels like, overturning the narrative of invisibility or decline.

• Sophia adds:

  • “We’ve always been told that aging was going to be this thing where we would, like, become invisible… and it’s like, I think we’re having a great time.” (07:53, Sophia)

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2. Channeling Childhood Self & Raising the Next Generation (09:15–14:08)

• Sophia’s signature question prompts Jeannie to reflect on her core childhood traits:
  • Jeannie describes her innate curiosity and love for people. She notices the same in her daughter, Monaco, and seeks to nurture that while teaching discernment.
  • “Vivacious curiosity—like insane. Why? But then why? … And also extreme love for people and relationships.” (11:15, Jeannie)
• They connect this to women’s advocacy, and how teaching children (especially girls) to trust themselves is revolutionary in a world that doesn’t always encourage that.

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3. Trusting Yourself Amid Societal and Medical Gaslighting (14:08–22:29)

• Jeannie and Sophia discuss self-trust, and how negative experiences or environments can mute your inner voice:

  • “The constant reminder to yourself throughout life is to actually tune up the voice that is talking or whispering sometimes within you…” (14:44, Jeannie)

• The pair examine how medical and societal systems often dismiss women’s experiences, particularly around perimenopause.

• Sophia’s pointed observation:

  • “Who you become when you’re being smothered is not who you are... the longer you are in an unhealthy situation, the more unhealthy you become to yourself and others also.” (21:08, Sophia)

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4. Breaking the Silence on Perimenopause (22:31–26:21)

• Jeannie explains how the lack of language and knowledge about perimenopause fuels shame and confusion:
  • “The gaslight in between this journey is so real, is so real that we have to take a second for ourselves and actually call each other out to be like, no, sis, what you’re feeling is real.” (23:43, Jeannie)
• Sophia and Jeannie discuss the double standards in medical research and treatment for men and women:
  • “They pulled [male birth control] off the market because the men got nauseous... I’m so sorry. What, like, you want to talk about nausea, cramps… What y’all got nauseous?” (25:38, Sophia)

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5. The Docuseries: How Balance Came Together (26:22–35:41)

• Jeannie shares the origin story of the docuseries, sparked by conversations among friends and filmmakers who realized their symptoms were related to perimenopause:
  • “At first, when I heard the word perimenopause, I was honestly thinking hot flashes. Like, that’s how archaic my understanding of it was.” (30:19, Jeannie)
• The docuseries aims to expand awareness of the wide-ranging symptoms of perimenopause (from brain fog to emotional dysregulation) and to unite women through shared stories and expert advice.
• Jeannie describes the personal resonance and awakening that came with learning about the breadth of perimenopause symptoms:
  • “The symptoms of perimenopause could be memory loss, emotional dysregulation, disrupted sleep patterns, insomnia, weight fluctuations, extreme emotional volatility, dizziness, nausea...” (30:20, Jeannie)
  • “And I was confused and I was in many ways angry at myself. My inner dialogue began to get very shaming and impatient...” (32:11, Jeannie)

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6. From Shame to Agency—Reframing the Experience (40:41–44:57)

• Jeannie passionately explains the shame women feel when white-knuckling difficult symptoms, and how information can transform that:
  • “White knuckling it is always aligned with shame... The whole point of the docu series is to provide answers so that we change your shame to having agency.” (40:41, Jeannie)
• Sophia highlights Jeannie’s pithy quote:
  • “How come nobody told me perimenopause feels like puberty going backwards, dude.” (41:35, Jeannie)
• They discuss how the lack of normalizing language and medical support makes women internalize blame rather than seek help.

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7. Navigating the Medical Maze (44:57–49:52)

• Sophia asks what steps women should take to get help—OB-GYN, rheumatologist, GP?
• Jeannie is honest that finding the right doctor is still a struggle, even with connections, and credits the docuseries experts with giving women actionable questions to ask providers:
  • “I myself am still trying to find that right doctor for me. I’m still in that journey.” (45:27, Jeannie)
  • “Our healthcare system often treats women’s pain as anecdotal instead of diagnostic. If your lab work looks normal, well then women [are] told they’re fine, even when their lived experience says otherwise.” (48:31, Jeannie)

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8. The Importance of Community and Conversation (51:02–55:30)

• Jeannie describes the power of group chats and intergenerational conversations in demystifying perimenopause for all ages:
  • “For me it’s all about the group chat. Like, it goes down in the group chats.” (51:02, Jeannie)
• She notes how sharing among friends has helped her—and can help others—find support, swap recommendations, and prepare for what’s coming.
• The docuseries aims to make this sense of agency and information accessible beyond Hollywood circles to everyone, everywhere.

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9. Hopes for Big-Picture Change (55:43–58:41)

• Jeannie articulates her vision for Balance:
  • “I hope that women leave feeling seen and informed and less alone. I hope the people who love them also leave better equipped to listen.” (55:59, Jeannie)
  • “Our docu series reframes aging as a transition that deserves preparation, not punishment... It’s about recalibration.” (56:26, Jeannie)
• Both agree that perimenopause is not a “decline” but a transformation that must be understood and celebrated by society at large.

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10. Including Everyone—Men as Allies (58:10–65:52)

• Sophia and Jeannie discuss the importance of partners being included and educated:

  • “I have more respect when men take an open, energetic, enthusiastic approach to this… you asked what you can do for a woman who’s going through perimenopause... Take off my clothes. I’m like, wait a minute, this is everything.” (58:27, Jeannie)

• They also touch on relationship dynamics and support needs, humorously calling for real presence and attentiveness from men.

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11. Final Reflections & "Work in Progress" (67:17–68:48)

• Sophia closes with her signature question about each guest’s “work in progress.”
• Jeannie’s heartfelt answer:
  • “My work in progress is my healing. I’ve had a tumultuous last couple of years, and I would like to be honored with the understanding of healing from here until my last day... The fruit of that will be my daughter... I am very thankful to say that my healing will get to show up right in front of my eyes with my family.” (67:34, Jeannie)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Redefining Aging:
  “I feel like we’re redefining age, like actually this whole generation... so I’m actually really proud that I’m 47 and I sound, talk, look, get this, you know?”
  — Jeannie Mai (07:04)

• About Self-Advocacy:
  “The greatest power we have, that is also the detriment to being alive if you lose it, is the ability to trust yourself.”
  — Jeannie Mai (14:08)

• On Perimenopause Awareness:
  “Every woman, not just some, every woman is going to experience perimenopause. So let’s talk about this. Let’s open the group chat up. Like, that’s insane.”
  — Jeannie Mai (24:57)

• Medical Double Standards:
  “They pulled [male birth control] off the market because the men got nauseous... I’m so sorry. What, like, you want to talk about nausea, cramps, like, period diarrhea and like, all the… What y’all got nauseous?”
  — Sophia Bush (25:38)

• Shame to Agency:
  “The whole point of the docu series is to provide answers so that we change your shame to having agency.”
  — Jeannie Mai (41:14)

• Puberty—In Reverse:
  “How come nobody told me perimenopause feels like puberty going backwards, dude.”
  — Jeannie Mai (41:35)

• Rethinking the Narrative:
  “We shouldn’t look at our bodies and perimenopause as a decline. It’s about recalibration. It’s about women deserving support through that recalibration...”
  — Jeannie Mai (56:26)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Welcome and Main Topic Introduction: 03:20
• Jeannie on Age and Birthday Reflection: 05:46–07:48
• Childhood Self & Parenting Monaco: 09:15–12:54
• Self-Trust and Internal Voice: 14:08–15:52
• Societal Gaslighting & Medical Dismissal: 20:28–23:43
• Double Standards in Medicine: 25:03–26:21
• Balance Docuseries Origin Story & Jeannie’s Realizations: 26:51–35:41
• Shame, Agency, and the Power of Knowledge: 41:14–44:57
• Navigating Medical Care & Provider Selection: 44:57–49:52
• Conversation, Community & Group Chats: 51:02–55:30
• Jeannie’s Hope for Societal Change: 55:59–57:14
• Men as Allies & Relationship Insights: 58:10–65:52
• Final "Work in Progress" Reflections: 67:17–68:48

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Concluding Thoughts

This episode is a masterclass in vulnerability, education, and advocacy around women’s health and perimenopause. Jeannie Mai’s openness, combined with Sophia Bush’s empathetic and informed hosting, makes this conversation both deeply relatable and actionable. Listeners are left with a sense of agency, connection, and the affirmation that aging—and the transitions that come with it—deserve compassion, community, and celebration, not shame.

For those navigating their own perimenopause experience, or for anyone seeking to better understand and support the women in their lives, this conversation is a must-listen—and Balance: The Perimenopause Journey is a docuseries to watch.

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Connect with Jeannie Mai & Balance Docuseries:

• Instagram: @thejeanniemae
• @balancedocuseries
• Premieres Jan 30, on Amazon Prime & Apple TV.

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"Work in Progress" with Sophia Bush—where every masterpiece is a work in progress.

Transcript

[Jeannie Mai]

This is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human.

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[Sophia]

Hi everyone, it's Sophia.

[Ebay and Sensica Advertisement Voice]

Welcome to Work in Progress.

[Jeannie Mai]

Foreign.

[Sophia]

Welcome back to Work in Progress. Friends. I hope your January is off to a fantastic start. I know so many of us think about this time of year as a time to go inward, learn about our health, our mental health, our bodies, maybe our families, the world around us. And today we have a guest who I adore, both personally and professionally, who is managing to take some of her own curiosity and turn it into a resource for all of us. Today we are joined by Jeannie Mai. She is an Emmy winning television host, producer, cultural commentator and she's built a career around honest conversations because she consistently uses her platform to explore the intersections of womanhood and well being. And now she is an executive producer of the docu series Balance the Perimenopause Journey. It's a series that's confronting the stigma, misinformation and systemic gaps surrounding this life stage. And this is important because, let's be honest, perimenopause is something every woman will experience, yet most of us don't really know what it means when it's happening, when it's entered, it's often with confusion, a lack of preparedness, and rife with feeling dismissed or alone. It's a transition that reshapes women's bodies and emotions and work and identity, but one that all of us women have been taught to kind of shrug off as inevitable. Absolutely not. Advocates and experts are finally breaking the silence and bringing this long overdue conversation to the forefront. And with Jeannie at the helm, this show feels incredibly personal because her curiosity, lived experience and deep, deep commitment to helping women makes her the friend we all need to help us wrap our heads around such an important topic. Jeannie Mai is the person you want in your group chat. She is the person you want producing your content. And thanks to this incredible docu series starting January 30, we get her in both of those roles. Let's dive in with Jeannie Mai. Is it your birthday today? It is.

[Jeannie Mai]

Oh my God. I know. I was like sitting here for a moment reflecting thank you so much. I'm like a shiny, brand new 47. And I'm getting into the skin right now as I'm like, what does it feel like right now to be 47? Because that age is so crazy to me. Like, it's so grown up. I'm still not like, you know, I don't even know what feeling. I don't think I caught up since 42 maybe. So I'm still like, you know, it's crazy. It's crazy. So thank you. Thank you so much.

[Sophia]

I totally get it. It's weird. It's like I turned 43 in July and it's such an incongruous feeling because I'm like, but am I older than 33? Like, I don't even know what is being an adult.

[Jeannie Mai]

Like, I still, I know I still.

[Sophia]

Want to, like, look to other people for answers for things.

[Jeannie Mai]

Totally. Especially when our definition of grown ups back then. By the way, can you hear me okay?

[Sophia]

Yeah, I can hear you.

[Jeannie Mai]

I want to make sure. Because you're getting a, like, real life, like, live footage of menopause and perimenopause. Because this is my mom's.

[Sophia]

I love it.

[Jeannie Mai]

Earbud. And she's done some things to it. She's tricked it out and I'm like, together? I'm not sure. Yeah.

[Sophia]

Yes.

[Jeannie Mai]

No. But like, I, I, I remember like when we were kids and the grown ups that were like our authority figures were our teachers. Those people were like 32 or 29. And looked to me, I thought 47. Like, I thought they were. Yeah. And so now when I look back at like, Ms. Austin, Ms. Clark, I'm like, you were 29. You were 32. Wait, what's going on right now? This doesn't make sense. So, like, I'm still. And I feel like we're redefining age. Like actually this whole generation and I'm so proud about is redefining what aging looks like, what totally agree means or sounds like. So I'm actually really proud that I'm 47 and I sound talk. Look, get this, you know?

[Sophia]

Yes, I feel that too.

[Jeannie Mai]

I feel that from you, too. Yeah, 100%.

[Sophia]

It's like, not to be a complete hole, but sometimes I look at myself or my life and I'm like, I'm so much cuter than I was 10 years ago. Things are so much more dialed than they were. We've always been told that aging was going to be this thing where we would, like, become invisible or, you know, be shunned from Society. And it's like, I think we're having a great time.

[Jeannie Mai]

Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, obviously, given our discussion today, having some more information and medical, you know, attention and help in the right areas, like that would be make the journey so much more fun. But having the sisterhood and the solidarity and podcasts like yours and the work that you're doing allow us to feel like, okay, we're not crazy. We got each other. We're good at this. If you're not gonna help us, we're gonna figure it out, you know?

[Sophia]

Well, that's just it. It's like. And I don't think there's a coincidence, Nia and I were talking about this and I think about our, our sort of like overlapping, beautiful Venn diagram of friend groups.

[Jeannie Mai]

Yes.

[Sophia]

Like, we all spent our 20s figuring out how to work in media and be activists. And I'm like, y' all thought our generation was going to go through this and not fix the medical system? Like, you're crazy.

[Jeannie Mai]

Please, please take a seat. If anything, take notes. I know.

[Sophia]

Well, it's interesting that you talk about reflecting about your birthday because.

[Jeannie Mai]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

My favorite first or early question to ask people is the following. And it's, I think it's even more special around a birthday, which is, you know, when you think about your life at this moment, you've done all these incredible things, you've had all these incredible successes, you've. You've made it over the humps of the hard days. And if you look back at your inner child, like if, if you could meet your inner 8 or 9 year old Jeannie on a playground today, are there things that you would recognize in her? Like things you carry with you as the woman you've become in your adulthood that have been in you since childhood?

[Jeannie Mai]

Absolutely. Not only is that a beautiful question on my birthday, but also it, I can't help but align that with what I'm noticing in my vivacious little four year old that's changing every single day in front of me because I heard one time that your personality is your personality from the get when you're born. Whatever you're exhibiting at that young age is who you are. And then life, people, society start to shape that good or bad.

[Sophia]

Right.

[Jeannie Mai]

And I, and I didn't believe that until I saw so many qualities of Monaco, my daughter, that I remember. Like, it's almost like deja vu. I see myself when I first discovered cotton candy, or when I first got burnt, or when I first was freely, not really freely, but my mom was looking the other way, but able to open up her Lancome jar of cream and just get into the lather and the succulents of putting, you know, cream on myself. Like, I remember the quality that, that Jeanie Mai had at 1, 2, 3, and moving on was vivacious curiosity, like insane. Why?

[T Mobile Advertisement Voice]

Why?

[Jeannie Mai]

But then why? And then, so then, yeah, what made that and why. And also extreme love for people and relationships. Like, I really loved meeting somebody, finding out how they got here, who do they know? What are they doing here? Why are they wearing that? That was always like, I felt like a gift, you know. And the reason why I'm sensitive when I say it now is because I notice that along the way, some of that, without the right tools, was either taken advantage of or judged. And me not understanding that that was a gift turned into a little bit of guardedness and apprehensiveness and trusting myself. So today, as a mom, that looks like, as a 47 year old and a mom, it looks like reintroducing myself to that curiosity, that natural urgency and fire to understand and love and know with the wisdom of what I understand, you know, where, where people can hurt people and, and things like that. And now I'm also teaching my daughter that, you know, like, every question's great, keep them coming. I love every one of them. And we're going to teach you how to learn, understand, and still build that, that discernment so that you can understand where it's safe and okay to ask and where it's safe to apply, you know? Yeah. It's a really cool awakening that I've gotten to.

[Sophia]

That's really special. It's. It's striking me, as you say it, that, you know, the, the moment our generation finds ourselves in so much of the advocacy for our age group and for the women coming after us, you know, we were just talking about, like, the shifts we have to make in the medical system.

[Jeannie Mai]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

And as you were talking about your daughter, I'm thinking, oh, of course. Because for us as young girls, we were still in such a moment in society where being liked was paramount to everything.

[Xolair Advertisement Voice]

Right.

[Sophia]

So. So the discernment was maybe a little suggestion, but not really part of how we were cultured to live in the world.

[Jeannie Mai]

Totally.

[Sophia]

God forbid you offended someone or, or stood up for yourself in a way that would make you, you know, unpopular or whatever.

[Jeannie Mai]

Right.

[Sophia]

And I think that's really beautiful. It's like the, the thing you're advocating for for yourself at your age, you are also instilling in Your daughter in a way that will give her the ability to advocate for herself for her whole life. It won't be something she has to learn. It'll be something she knows how to do.

[Jeannie Mai]

Absolutely. I think the greatest power we have, that is also the detriment to being alive if you lose it, is the ability to trust yourself, to trust your body, to trust your feelings, to just trust that you know you can, you will. And somewhere along the way, relationships, you.

[Sophia]

Know.

[Jeannie Mai]

People, experiences unfavorably happening, you know, just life can really test that and take that ability to trust yourself away. And so the constant reminder to yourself throughout life is to actually tune up the voice that is talking or whispering sometimes within you. Because it depends. Like, I remember in times that I was really confident in doing well and I had all of my environment working for me. My voice inside was loud, clear, defiant, and audible. And then when I was in environments that wasn't healthy for me, it was a bare whisper, sometimes a little light annoying urge in the back. But you're like, no, no, go away, go away. You know?

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Jeannie Mai]

And so that's my job to teach Monaco to not tune out that voice and to make it so clear that the clarity sounds like a very audible voice that you recognize all the time. But it's also the job for myself to make sure I'm tuning into her.

[Sophia]

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[Sophia]

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[Sophia]

You just said things that took my brain in three different directions. Including the fact that when you are in a great environment your voice is louder and when your environment is unhealthy your voice shrinks. Yes, and I think there is something very societal for women. Right? We're taught to shrink. We're taught to take up less space. We're taught to be pretty first and, and speak second. All the sort of bull.

[Jeannie Mai]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

Stuff that our grandmothers and mothers grew up with. And as you were saying that, I was like, you know, because I'm reflecting a lot on, I did a whole bunch of like, we're ending a nine year, we're going into a one year. Like, what do I need to look at from the last 10 years?

[Jeannie Mai]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

And I was really reflecting on a period in my life that was the absolute most awful for me. And the environment was terrible and inexcusable things were excused. And what I realized is the nugget, like the core of the thing that I carry from that time is shame about my own patience for it. And also shame about the moments when like, I'd been backed into a corner to a point that I lashed out in ways that hurt me and hurt other people that I cared about.

[Jeannie Mai]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

Like, and, and what dawned on me when you said that was, oh, who you become when you're being smothered is not who you are. And, and the, the thing that nobody wants to talk about is the longer you are in an unhealthy situation, the more unhealthy you become to yourself and others also. And so I think there's also this like, layer of, yes, we have to do this for us and we have to do this for our daughters, but we also have to do this for the people around us because everyone around the bad gets affected by the bad. Even, even, even good people with the best intentions. And it's like, I don't know, I think, I think there's a really powerful correlation when you consider the sort of sphere of what society is. Yes. For all people. Because to be clear, it's not working for men either, but certainly for women.

[Jeannie Mai]

Right.

[Sophia]

Of course we're in a revolutionary moment about how we are treated or not treated when we are literally stepping into our most powerful, clear.

[Jeannie Mai]

Right.

[Sophia]

Like, I don't think it's a coincidence that women going into perimenopause and menopause have been shunned by society. Because at this point we know it all, we've seen it all, and we're too wise to give a. Anymore.

[Jeannie Mai]

Right.

[Sophia]

And of course you want us to be quiet now.

[Jeannie Mai]

Right. It's mind boggling how where the chicken or the egg begins. Because our upbringing and our mothers. Mothers, Mothers. Have all been taught to suppress or have been taught to believe otherwise when it comes to legislation, health care systems, everything that we had to eventually fight for, to get to where we are standing even today and still fighting. But right now doing a docu series about the realities of perimenopause. And this whole long, sometimes could be 10 year journey up until the actual one day of menopause, all of these feelings that you've been feeling have been all either diagnosed or misdiagnosed or dismissed as other things. And you've never had a word to define what this feeling was until the one day you have an actual signal from your body that goes, okay, period stopped. And you never realize that that whole last however many years it took to get to that hormonal shift could have been any of the. By the way, not just hot flashes, 15 to 20 other symptoms.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Jeannie Mai]

That have absolutely permeated or affected your relationships, your communication levels, your emotional regulation, your parenting, your workplace. Like all of these other things. That's insane to think that the whole time you've me being 47 now suppressed or just dealt with it or have been led to try other things from herbal teas to like it's, it's postpartum or it's this and, and my daughter's 4 and sure, it could be. But then also why have. No, why has nobody told me it could be perimenopause? Like the, just the, the rat race of trying to figure out what it is until somebody puts language to it. Until somebody who hopefully has a platform so other people can hear it puts language to it. It's just crazy. It's wild. And the gaslight in between. This journey is so real, is so real that we have to take a second for ourselves and actually call each other out to be like, no, sis, what you're feeling is real. What you're feeling are symptoms to a greater thing. Every woman, not just some, every woman is going to experience perimenopause. So let's talk about this. Let's open the group chat up. Like, that's insane.

[Sophia]

Yeah, it's insane. Well, and when you consider to your point, the laundry list of symptoms.

[Jeannie Mai]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

And there's, there's a, a sort of societal eye roll or well, that's just how it is. Or oh, that happens to women. And that's what makes me feel a little crazy where it's like, no, you can't roll your eyes at 51% of the population going through a universal experience. Yes. And, and when you start to think about some of the hard data we have, including back in the day they made a birth control pill for men and to Be clear, a dude can get a girl pregnant every day of the month. Women can maybe get pregnant two days a month.

[Jeannie Mai]

Right?

[Sophia]

But they, they pulled it off the market because the men got nauseous, right?

[Ebay and Sensica Advertisement Voice]

Nauseous.

[Sophia]

One side effect dead. And I'm going, I'm so sorry. What, like, you want to talk about nausea, cramps, like, period diarrhea and like, all the. What y' all got nauseous? Like, so if men aren't even allowed to be minorly inconvenienced by a tummy upset from taking a pill every day, that, by the way, most of us have taken every day.

[Jeannie Mai]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

Like, why are we supposed to be inconvenienced by every single experience from physical to emotional to psychological? The double standard, again, isn't working for us, but it's, it's not working for the world. So.

[Jeannie Mai]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

How, how did you guys decide to do this? Like, at moments like this, I'm like, I know I'm telling you things. You, you know, and hopefully some people at home are like, wait, I did not know that about male birth control. But, like, you have the information, you've had the experience at, at what stage in the docu series, which for our friends at home is called Balance A Perimenopause Journey. It's so incredible. From the first moment, by the way, I was like, oh, this is not what I expected.

[Jeannie Mai]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

And I was excited and I still didn't know what I was in for.

[T Mobile Advertisement Voice]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

As a person who's trying to figure out, like, am I there yet? Am I not? People keep saying like, well, you'll know. And I'm like, that's, that's the medical diagnostic. Like, yeah, that can't be right. So how, how did this come together, this amazing story, you guys, as a team? What happened?

[Jeannie Mai]

Yeah. To be honest, I have to thank the very team that brought it together to wake me up to understand that I was in perimenopause. These beautiful filmmakers. Yeah, yeah. These beautiful, beautiful filmmakers. Two of them award winning on a boutique and sadali. They are, they are monks, but in AKA to me, they're angels. Uh, we have worked together to create a few phenomenal pieces of work to fight anti trafficking years ago. And today, as we've gotten older and we keep in touch, they send me birthday wishes, they check in on my daughter. They begin to recognize that they're going through perimenopause and they're like, wait a minute, I feel different. I don't like my body. I feel out of touch with what's going on. And these, what's, what's fascinating is these ladies live such a regimented life with their, with their work on their sanctuary and their, the way that they move. Every day is pretty scheduled, whereas I, my Monday, every day is a different Monday. My schedule, I can't remember what I did, but I also don't have the same schedule being an entertainer. So when they started to be able to recognize that their bodies were changing and their emotional needs were changing and their behavior towards each other was changing because they lived in a, you know, a, a, again, a very, a very scheduled, traditional, everyday life together. They were sound enough and aware enough to say, wait a minute, something's changing. I'm reacting differently towards you. Your needs are different from, from before. Like what's happening right now. They begin to take a more investigative approach towards what this is and realized that there's this thing called perimenopause that they've entered into. All of the symptoms they're having are checking off. And why is nobody giving them the direct right answers on how to treat this? Because at the end of the day, your entire makeup is built off of hormones. And when your hormones are out of balance, who gonna tell you? What are you taking? What are you doing about it? This doctor will tell you five different things from this doctor. All of the doctors will actually give you a different read on it. Nobody actually calls out what perimenopause is and what is the answer when you find it, by the way. And so both of these brave women take this two very different journeys to give us a close, in depth understanding of what is perimenopause. How do you know if you're in it? What are the options out there and what really works? So they talked to the best experts in the world to really get down to the answers and called me along the way to tell me what they were experiencing. And at first, when I heard the word perimenopause, I was honestly thinking hot flashes. Like, that's how archaic my understanding of it was.

[Ebay and Sensica Advertisement Voice]

Totally.

[Jeannie Mai]

I was like, I'm not getting hot flashes. I actually get cold a lot. I actually, you know, I don't experience. I, I want to get hot. I'm like, I. If I got a hot flash, I'd probably be excited about it. You know, what else could it be? And they're like, actually, that's like the least of the, the, the of the side effects or the symptoms. The symptoms of perimenopause could be memory loss, emotional dysregulation, disrupted sleep Patterns, insomnia, weight fluctuations, extreme emotional volatility, dizziness, nausea. The list just went on and on in such a way that I was like, wait, yes, yes, yes. Go back to the memory loss part. Okay, extreme, yes. Brain fog, yes. And then going down to explaining things like walking to a room and forgetting exactly why you came there, saying something like being as emphatic and as expressive as I am being in a conversation, and completely forgetting, like, as if you fell off a cliff where you were going with it. These were actual things, tangible things that I could remember just in that day that I was experiencing. And I was like, wait a minute, wait a minute. This is perimenopause. Are you serious? And when I began to listen to the doctors that were responding to our docu series and to hear how important hormones are and how much they fluctuate, sometimes severely, sometimes as early as 35, I began to actually be able to see my life as this timetable and see where things started to happen, where I almost could track where perimenopause started for me, because I know how sharp and how capable and how, like, on it I was. I saw on your Instagram, Sophia, that you posted this adorable picture of you on a horse, and you were like, it's the year of the horse. I'm so ready. I was bored on the year of the Horse in Vietnamese culture. And the horse is strategic. It's super sensitive to all the needs around them. It's a go getter. It's just, it charges. And, and I was not charging for the last five years. I was wandering. I was isolating because of my wandering. And I was confused and I was in many ways angry at myself. My inner dialogue began to get very shaming and impatient and. God, why, why would you forget that? You would literally set an alarm for that. How could you have missed that? And, and, and why doesn't this make sense anymore? I used to remember this. I. I know this like the back of my hand. Why am I needing more help here? I feel stupid. Like my, my. I, I recognize that the, that the talk around me just started to become very, very vicious. And I would also see, you know, times in my, in my everyday, you know, work and exchange with people, like flashes too, where, you know, I get a little short on this, or I'd have to call a friend and be like, you know what? I'm sorry, that came out of nowhere and that wasn't cool. Like, I apologize. And from that, I would go into like two or three days of just, like, shame spiral. Yeah. Yes, the rumination of like, what's going on?

[Sophia]

What's wrong?

[Jeannie Mai]

So when Sedali actually gave me a call and told me about her findings with perimenopause and that they were so extreme and so awakening that she was like, we have to do something about this. We have to tell everyone, not just women, but men, healthcare systems, workplaces. I was like, wait, I'm. I'm one of them. I want first row access to all of these answers. Count me in. But also tell me more. I need to hear all of it. And in one month of signing on to help my dear friends and join this community, I was immediately exposed to the incredible doctors on our docu series that had so much concrete answers that were backed by years of experience and historical knowledge that we've known but hasn't been told. My algorithm on my social media changed where every day I'm getting now friends and community and people that talk about perimenopause and share their everyday experience or their new findings. I've met men who care and I've told their stories about in their marriages, what it's felt like or how they hold space for their wives or their partners, like just from joining the documentary, so that I could help spread the word and be a part of the answers and ask questions as well. So I can't even imagine what it would be like if we weren't talking about it, if there weren't a docu series, if my algorithm was over here still talking about nail trends. And not that I'm knocking that, but I love a good nail trend and I love a little.

[Sophia]

We can do this.

[Jeannie Mai]

Yeah, right, Right. But come on. Like, as soon as I'm in the right circle in conversations, I'm getting all the information towards. That's what I wish for everybody out there. So that you don't have to go searching for it after it feels too late.

[Sophia]

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[Sophia]

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[Sophia]

One of the things I think is interesting, a friend of mine who's in her mid-50s was talking to some of us about this at a dinner recently and saying, you know, I'm 10 years ahead of you all. I've been through the full spectrum of this experience. And she said, what drives me crazy is remembering times when I was clearly going through this in my 40s and I let people dismiss it. I dismissed it. I said, well, look at the state of the world. Look at the election we just lost. Things are so bad for women. Of course I'm burnt out. But burnout is different than your entire internal physical system changing. And so often women pile more on their backs. They say, like, I can pick up the slack. I can pick up yours too. And they just keep going. And we don't have to white knuckle it so hard.

[Jeannie Mai]

Yeah. Yeah. Especially when white knuckling it is always aligned with shame. White knuckling it, sucking it in, swallowing it down and just. And keeping it to ourselves comes with this shame, embarrassment, self doubt. All these things that we then put upon ourselves because we don't have the answers. The whole point of the docu series is to provide answers so that we change your shame to having agency.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Jeannie Mai]

That's the whole point. We want you to know that you have access. You. We want you to know that you can do something about this because it's not going away, but neither should we.

[Ebay and Sensica Advertisement Voice]

No.

[Sophia]

And that's the kind of alchemy I want to see. I mean, shame to agency feels like a really great direction. And it actually reminds me of something you say in episode two that is so funny to me because you're just like, what the.

[Jeannie Mai]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

And you. And you said, how come nobody told me perimenopause feels like puberty going backwards, dude. And it just, like, it really made me laugh. And, like, obviously the idea of shame transforming into agency is the right direction. Perimenopause, I know, feels for so many people, like, the wrong one. But, like, how. How did that dawn on you? Like, what made you realize that was the experience you were having?

[Jeannie Mai]

Yeah. All of a sudden, in the very moment that the symptoms of perimenopause was. Was read out to me, whether it was through my research online, through Dr. Mary Claire, or through ChatGPT I immediately felt like I'm okay. Wait, I'm, I'm normal, I'm good. I'm allowed like that right there. Having that feeling should not be the first reaction. Like, I wish my first reaction was, oh, okay. So I'm feeling, you know, a little, a little tired. More tired these days or I'm not able to sleep. I've gotten up at three the last few days. I know about this thing called perimenopause. I've heard about it. I know which doctors can help about it. I've heard some ways that you can go check your hormone levels and see if you need some help. Let me go make an appointment. I wish it was that, you know, I mean, just like if I had a cough or a sore throat, I know immediately that I can have an elderberry or if I want to go more natural or I can go and get, you know, some, some assistance for my ear, nose and throat doctor. Like, like there's access to it because some things are normalized and more and more and more talked about. This wasn't that. And so that I started feeling my memory loss and my brain fog. My brain fog severely. At 38, it was really bad. It cost me some jobs. It cost me some very important conversations that I didn't know how to ease myself through because of the unnatural patterns of my emotions at the time that like, would bring me to tears.

[Sophia]

Wow.

[Jeannie Mai]

Having to describe because it felt like you're trying to talk but you're, you don't, you don't act physically, have the words. Your body is, is overwhelmed and, and, and angry at yourself to be able to be the vessel to carry your feelings. And so you burn off people and relationships around you because you're just like. You feel unrecognizable to yourself. That started at 38 for me. And I remember just kind of hiding out to myself, giving it time, hoping it never comes back again. Almost like it was like a. Almost like it was a, like a monster that rears its head, you know?

[Sophia]

Well, and that goes back to the shame thing, right? You think it's my fault, I'm doing something wrong, I'm failing, I'm, I'm suddenly incapable rather than. I need a little bit of support like I would going to see an ENT for a sinus infection or seeing an ob, were I getting, you know, were I pregnant? Like, it's a, it's a really interesting mindset shift and I'm curious because I'm sure there's so many people at home, listening to us have this conversation going, okay, but where do I start?

[Jeannie Mai]

Right?

[Sophia]

Like, you know, and you guys address this so beautifully in the series that so many women feel dismissed in medical settings. So I'm curious if somebody were to ask you, where should I start to go to be taken seriously? Is that an OB gyn? Is that a rheumatologist? Is that a gp? Like where, where do women need to go first? And what should they be asking? What questions should they be asking?

[Jeannie Mai]

I guess, yeah. I think it's also important to remember that we women are taught to normalize suffering and medical systems are trained to silo systems symptoms. So when you start to experience things like fatigue, anxiety, brain fog or mood changes that show up separately, they're then treated separately instead of being seen as part of a hormonal transition that deserves context and education and compassion, you know, so this is a hard one because I myself am still trying to find that right doctor for me. I'm still in that journey. And I'm just going to point out the realities right now. You know, I'm. I'm somewhat of a name in my career here. You know, I have friends and connections. I'm having to access those connections and those celebrities and those who's who to get to the right person more than someone I can just call out of Yelp or checking on my Google. That is something that is still really hard for women out there today. So in your own area, what's great about our doctor series is we've got the most incredible doctors that are going to give the information on the questions that you should ask specifically so that you're narrowing down your doctors and seeing how they answer to see if they're the right doctors for you.

[Sophia]

Yeah. Not to be crass, I actually mean this genuinely. It's almost like dating. You have to date a person before you know if they're the right match for you. And you do that by spending time asking questions, seeing how they handle emotions or, you know, any sort of life event. And essentially you have to do the medical version of that with your doctor. And, and see, I would say first and foremost, if you're being listened to, yes. In the first place, I'm really curious because, you know, it's so exciting that we're in a moment where we're having greater conversations around medical transparency. And we all know the flip side of the coin is that there's now like a 4x industry to the size of pharma under the quote unquote wellness umbrella. And A lot of it is like snake oil salesmen who have like, kits and supplement brands and whatever else they're doing that. So it's like, in a weird way, I'm like, oh, my God. But how do we make sure we're trusting actual medical science and information while demanding more research for that science, while looking at more functional ways to treat our bodies? And how do we avoid people who claim to be medical experts who aren't?

[Jeannie Mai]

Yeah, that's so true. Especially because our healthcare system often treats women's pain as anecdotal instead of diagnostic. If your lab work looks normal, well then women told they're fine, even when their lived experience says otherwise. And that's why our docu series balance, it validates that disconnect. That for me is the start just being validated and feeling seen in my own body. For me to be able to understand the information and go, wait, okay, I'm right where I need to be now. Where do I need to go from here? That's a really important acceptance because most of the time we women are managing having children or not at least 10 different things in our lives on a daily basis, you know, and. And the people around us, we're. We're most likely to be taken care of more than ourselves. And so having that validation and that understanding is so vital so that you are tuning in the attention and the energy that you're giving outwards to yourself, and then beginning to ask the smart, smart questions and being able to discern who are the right people who understand perimenopause the way it needs to be understood today to get that help.

[Sophia]

Yeah, it's really, it's like kind of a fascinating moment to be in because we're solving problems that have needed solving. And it all feels a little bit like the Wild west, you know?

[Jeannie Mai]

Yeah. Well, think about it. When your sleep and your memory and your emotional regulation are disrupted, it literally affects everything and every person. You know, how you show up at work, how you communicate with others. Like at the end of the day, when you miss the mark on things that you've been doing so well in your 20s and your 30s, you start to internalize that as failure instead of physiology.

[Sophia]

Yeah. Oh, I love that. And that's another reframe. Right. It's physiology, not failure.

[Jeannie Mai]

Right, Right. Correct.

[Sophia]

That's so important. I'm. I'm really curious. You know, you talked about, obviously folks you can reach out to and your algorithm even shifting, but like, has, has being on the producing team of this series also just changed Your conversations with friends and family, like, what's going, what's going on around Jeannie Mai's dinner table now?

[Jeannie Mai]

Yeah. This is insane that you're asking this because for me it's all about the group chat. Like, it goes down in the group chats. I am so thankful that because of today, I have a very live group chat from different age groups. My girlfriends that are in their 60s and 70s to my girlies that are in their early 30s that are like, are you sure that's a thing? And I'm like, I'm trying to help you out. You don't even know. Like, listen to your elder, you know? But on a serious note, like, we're having a premiere coming up for our docu series. And yeah, I, I, I literally was sitting there having like a out of body moment. I was, I was talking to, I was working out at the Aloe gym and all, all the girls there are so cute. They're holding their Hailey Bieber shakes and they're, you know, they're, they're, their, their whole conversation of life is what I remember at that time of being like totally 28 to 35. And I started to share about this docu series and they, it was insane, the type of questions they were asking me because they were like, okay, we get that that's a thing, like way down there, but you're going through this. And I understood what they meant. I appreciated that honesty because I know back to our earlier conversation, like, I don't look like what I thought my teacher looked like at the grown up age, you know?

[Ebay and Sensica Advertisement Voice]

Totally.

[Jeannie Mai]

And I'm having the conversations, I'm drinking the Haley Bieber shakes, I'm doing all the things and they picture what, they picture perimenopause to be like, oh, it sounds like you're at home with some, some, you know, what are those called?

[Sophia]

Cold cream on.

[Jeannie Mai]

Yep, yep, yep. Yeah, cold cream. You've got your hair rollers, you can barely walk, your back cracks, like, all these things. And I'm like, low key. That happens too. But don't neglect that what you can learn and what I can teach you now will allow you to prepare for it. I've had so many exchanges with people where I know the perimenopausal symptoms affected me in a way that I would have handled those so differently. And I hate that. Yes, you know, Yes, I know now because I know myself. Like, because I've tuned into listening to myself so much more and I see myself asking the questions in my group chats and I see myself talking with my friends so vividly about, about how we handled this situation because we know this is happening. So we've, you know, we've. We've taken the nap, we've. We've gone to sleep earlier. We've done the changes and also went and saw this doctor and got a, you know, just, you know, one of my friends even just being as. As real as telling me the testosterone level that she found she was so low on and needed to replenish differently with her new intake of. Of her testosterone, like how stronger she was in a. A new business that she started opening up and that she. This business that she started, she had to close down at first a few years ago when she didn't have this information. And as soon as she started hormone therapy, she immediately. We started the business back up in three months and was like, I can now navigate this so much differently because I saw exactly where I wasn't strong before, and I talked myself down and beat myself up to the point of no return because of how badly I didn't understand myself. Now if I feel the memory fog, I know where to administer this. And if I feel like I'm getting a bit of sleep fatigue, I know where to go to bed earlier and put a little melatonin and magnesium on my feet. And she, she's just got it all dialed where she knows now, almost like a dj, where to crank it up to get the best pure sound in her everyday activity. And I was like, yeah, I want to be there. Like, get me there, you know? And so because of that, because of conversations like that, we're able to exchange doctors or things we're trying. And even with the directors of the film, Sodali and Adebuti, they're. They're constantly, you know, suggesting to me different things that have worked for them. And, and it's great that we have. I have a community that I can navigate this through with, but I keep thinking about my mom or my friends that aren't in Hollywood that don't have that access. And that's the point of balance. We want to create that agency so that it's accessible and tangible to everybody at any place that you live with, any work field that you're at, or any home that you're operating out of.

[Sophia]

That's so cool. It's really, really cool. I mean, when you think about that, you know, because we're talking about shifting conversations, taboos, healthcare industry, medical research.

[Ebay and Sensica Advertisement Voice]

What.

[Sophia]

What are the broader shifts that you hope this project is going to spark? Like What. What would your best case scenario be to see in the follow on news about this thing, like 60 days after your premiere?

[Jeannie Mai]

Yeah. I hope that women leave feeling seen and informed and less alone. I hope that the people who love them also leave better equipped to listen. You know, I think that knowledge doesn't change outcomes. It restores trust in your own body, which is the greatest reward we already have, but we don't always tap into. And I also think aging is a big thing. I love that our docu series refrains aging as a transition that deserves preparation, not punishment. You know, I think that we shouldn't look at our bodies and perimenopause as a decline. It's about recalibration. It's about women deserving support through that recalibration and celebrating the understanding and the acknowledgment and the triumph of being where we are because we've earned every single bit of our life that we gain towards. It just shouldn't feel like a decline.

[Sophia]

Yeah. Because it isn't. There's no way that so many women say that their 40s and then their 50s are the best decades of their lives, that they only get happier, smarter, you know, fill in the blank.

[Jeannie Mai]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

And that for some reason the story in society is that it's a decline. It. It also needs that alchemy. It needs that redefinition.

[Jeannie Mai]

Right. And that's why it's important to remember that like when millions of women are navigating this biological transition without having the information or the adequate education, this can cause a ripple effect. This is not just a single woman's issue. This is a societal issue that affects homes, workplaces, health systems. Everybody is involved in this conversation.

[Sophia]

Yeah. I think that's so important because there are no issues that are just women's or just men's issues.

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[Sophia]

They are our issues. And particularly for women that are in relationships with men. Like the men need to know what is up with their ladies.

[Jeannie Mai]

Yes.

[Sophia]

It's so important.

[Jeannie Mai]

And, and I have more. Yeah. Respect too. When, when, when men take an. An open, energetic, enthusiastic approach to this.

[Sophia]

Yes.

[Jeannie Mai]

The energy shifts when a man also just takes heed to understanding this.

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It.

[Jeannie Mai]

That. But you know, we talk so much about what gentlemen look like opening the door and, you know, letting women in before them pulling out their chair. But like, my definition on that has changed so much today. I'm like, that is the most basic.

[Sophia]

Come on.

[Jeannie Mai]

Right. Exactly. Now I'm like, wait, you asked what you can do for a woman who's going through perimenopause? What are the signs that you can see and how can you support a woman? What are the right questions to ask? Like take off my clothes. I'm like wait a minute, this is everything. You know what I'm saying, right?

[Sophia]

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[Sophia]

It's so interesting. Like we obviously saw so many relationships that formed and fell apart, like particularly during pandemic times.

[Jeannie Mai]

Yes.

[Sophia]

But I think there's what I'm finding in a lot of my group chats. And by the way, now I'm like, you need to be in my group chats and I need to be in your group chats, girl. Like, what are we doing?

[Jeannie Mai]

I'm already in it.

[Sophia]

But it's like we, the number of women I know that are like, oh, it was the big life event thing that I realized no matter what he said, his actions didn't show up for fertility, new parenthood.

[Jeannie Mai]

Yes.

[Sophia]

I'm sure perimenopause, like women are done being in relationships where they are expected to do all of the suffering and all of the, the work. And so I hope that your series will also be a wake up call for the men to go like, oh yeah, we, we have to show up not just with the flowers or the, or the, you know, dinner date planned on Valentine's Day, but like we have to show up to actually be these like chivalrous men we say we are for our partners when they actually need us. And this is one of the moments.

[Jeannie Mai]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

You know, postpartum perimenopause, like your, your person needs you in these times.

[Jeannie Mai]

Totally. That is one disclaimer I'll have for all my sisters out there who are Going to watch the docu series when it, when it's out on January 30th. Notice what you're going to take as compliments and, and gestures that feel, that feel like a man is actually extending himself. Like, I remember my girlfriend, she cut her hair, it from, from like a lob to like a pixie. And she was like, oh, my God. You know, my man noticed my haircut. And I was like, he never even notices anything about me. I was so, like, touched. And I was like, I'm going to need my man to notice, like, my sleep patterns. I need to feel a little bit. I need to notice, like, if I haven't had some food and I want some, you know, some help because I'm working overtime over here as a single mom and I need you to go get a meal for me. Like, it's, it's. I think it's, there's a really fun way to have, have some levity in this. And, and, and I know in my group chats, I am with my girlfriends. You know, I know that now that we understand what these symptoms are, we're actually able to. We're keeping a daily diary with each other and we're joking about it. And when we feel like, you know, when, when our girl's off, like, we can come in with such love and care. And the husbands that are around, you know, some of us, you know, talking out loud and joking about this, they're, they feel welcomed when we make it light and not make it light as in it's not serious, but actually just call it out before they do so that we can all have anything. Because the last thing we want anybody to do is to make us feel like we're crazy or make us feel like we're invisible because of this, you know, and that's, that's, that's, that's important.

[Sophia]

Well, I can't wait for the show to come out. I know it's January 30th, and for our friends at home, it's, it's incredible because it's going to be everywhere. It's Amazon prime, it's Apple tv. You have multiple places you can watch this.

[Jeannie Mai]

Make sure when you watch on January 30th. I'm super active in my DMs, and I'm going to be. I want to, I want to have a live discussion about this together. So when I post about this, you guys go into my captions. I'm sorry, my comments. Let me know what you think. Let me know what you're experiencing. Because our filmmakers said Dali and Annabouti and all of the doctors, Dr. Lewis, Dr. Vonda, all the doctors together. Dr. Sharon, we're all so. We're so on fire about making sure that everybody gets answers and feels seen and supported in whatever neck of the woods that you are when you watch. So keep in close touch with me on my Instagram and also follow Balance docuseries on Instagram as well. And that's where. Where we'll be able to tend to your very questions. The girls, they're actually on their live all the time. Dr. I'm sorry. AnnAboutI and Sadali, the filmmakers, they are always answering every question. So just know that as you're watching this, this is a conversation. This is an actual group chat we're inviting you to. So don't feel like you're just watching the docu series and then figuring it out yourself. We are getting all the answers. We're going to find you all the support that you need until we get systems in place where it doesn't have be to be this hard.

[Sophia]

That's amazing. I love that. And my final and favorite question to ask everybody, which feels especially auspicious at the top of the year and on your birthday, is as you look at the year ahead of you, what feels like your work in progress.

[Jeannie Mai]

My work in progress. So that's a good one. I feel like my work in progress is my healing. My healing. I've had a tumultuous last couple of years, and I would like to be honored with the understanding of healing from here until my last day. I don't want to ever stop healing. I don't want to ever feel like I've reached the point. I just want to continuously feel the evolve and the elevation of my understanding and my tools and my resources.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Jeannie Mai]

And the fruit of that will be my daughter. The fruit of that is seeing her come out of a household that's very different from what I grew up in. Seeing my mom reparent herself, that's very different from her country and the conditions that were there when she grew up. I am very thankful to say that my healing will get to show up right in front of my eyes with my family. And that as a Vietnamese American woman, I hope will permeate to my community as well.

[Sophia]

That's so beautiful.

[Jeannie Mai]

This was a really beautiful conversation. Such thoughtful questions. And I was really excited to talk to you because I love your work.

[Sophia]

Me too. And every time I see you out in the world, I'm always like, oh, my God. I want to hang with you more.

[Jeannie Mai]

I know, I know. Same same same.

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[Jeannie Mai]

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[Jeannie Mai]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.