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- [00:00]
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- [00:30]
Sophia Bush
Hey everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello friends. Welcome back to another episode of Work in Progress. This week we have a guest many of you have been clamoring for. She is an incredible actress, an incredible advocate, a brilliant human, and happens to be my love interest from Grey's Anatomy. This week we are joined by none other than the legend herself, Kim Raver. You likely know Kim as Audrey Rains from 24, Kim Zambrano on third watch, and since 2009 as playing the iconic Dr. Teddy Altman on ABC's medical drama Grey's Anatomy. I have had the absolute pleasure of alongside her this year bringing Teddi and Cass to your screens. We're both big fans of y'all's chosen ship name for us, Cassidy. And this year, not only did I get to work alongside Kim, but I got to be directed by her. And today I can't wait to dive into talking about her creative process, why she is so protective of and has so much love for her character and how she looks back in hindsight on having been on one of television's big hit shows for all these years. Let's dive in with Kim Raver. I'm just so excited that you're here. You came on the Zoom and I was about to be like, hey girlfriend. And then I was like, wait, the Internet will die for that.
- [02:25]
Kim Raver
I think you should just cause.
- [02:28]
Sophia Bush
Okay, maybe that's what we'll call our episode.
- [02:30]
Kim Raver
I like it. Hey girl.
- [02:32]
Sophia Bush
Hey girlfriend. We have so much to talk about and I'm so excited. But before, you know, we dive into our last year of working together and all the years I've been lucky enough to know you, I actually want to go backwards. I think it's so exciting to sit down with people who have such amazing bodies of work and who are doing such cool things in the world and I wonder if you got to hang out with a childhood version of you. You know you at 9 or 12, if you could spend time with that little version of Kim, would you see the woman you are today in her, or do you think she'd be totally shocked to meet you?
- [03:14]
Kim Raver
That's such a great question. It's so interesting and I don't know if it's like generational, but I, I feel like the younger Kim, like you said nine, I think.
- [03:31]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [03:31]
Kim Raver
Like, that wasn't even in the purview. That wasn't even in the. I mean, maybe it's also. It was just like survival. Like, I mean, I'm, I, you know, grew up divorced parents, very young age, single mom raising me and my sister by herself in New York City. And, and the like, the good fortune of it is that we didn't have phones and tick tock. Like there was. There it was, it was so there wasn't sort of this like, what am I gonna be? Kind of thing, which is amazing and kind of great. And I mean, I joke because, I mean, I'll go back a little bit, you know, like, are the. This parenting generation is much more sort of like helicopter. And I think it's because we were so like, left to our own devices. There was like an ad that I was like, would come on television and say, it's 10 o'clock. Do you know where your children are?
- [04:27]
Sophia Bush
Yes.
- [04:27]
Kim Raver
I mean, right. And now it's like, I'm like, you know, I'm attracting our kids and I'm.
- [04:32]
Sophia Bush
Like, where are they? Are they.
- [04:33]
Kim Raver
You know, so they're. I think the younger me was like just sort of putting one foot in front of the other and, you know, getting to school in New York city in the 80s by myself. And that's not, I mean, my mom was on it, but she was also a working mom and newly divorced. And that wasn't really a thing. There weren't a lot of, A, there weren't a lot of women in advertising working and B, there weren't a lot of like divorcees. Like, so there was that aspect of it. But then I found, you know, it's funny, I, I was in Sesame street as a kid, but I never consider myself as like a child actress. It wasn't like, wait, was that a.
- [05:19]
Sophia Bush
Regular job or you like, did a couple of episodes?
- [05:21]
Kim Raver
That was like a three year job.
- [05:23]
Sophia Bush
Kim, how did I never know this about you?
- [05:27]
Kim Raver
It's funny I said it like that because everyone know. Everyone's like, so you're a child. I'm like, no, I'm not. That was like, my mom was shopping for clothes for my sister and I. And someone was like, hey, your kids would be great on Sesame Street. And my mom, my mom was a single mom and she was like, it'll pay for private school in New York City.
- [05:48]
Sophia Bush
Take them, you know?
- [05:50]
Kim Raver
And it was a place for me that was steady and protective. And I mean, there was these doors in the green room that said, 1, 2, 3, open sesame. And then I would go into, like, magic world. Right. So for. But that wasn't like, oh, I'm going to be an actor. Right. It just was like, oh, this is a world of make believe that I love so much that I see, you know, I see the, you know, the Carol who was Big Bird was an amazing Mr. Hooper. All of them. Right. So that was. But then I think, I mean, look, I was a very, you know, my sister was very much, like, really studious and like an incredible academic and more quiet. And I was just like, yeah, I think that being on Sesame street was definitely like a place of like, oh, I. This is kind of a world. And then it really wasn't until later that I got more involved with it. But to answer your question of would I have imagined that this is where kind of I would be? No, because it wasn't really. It wasn't really kind of premeditated. I mean, yes, at 13, I kind of was like, oh, yeah, this is definitely what I want to do.
- [07:08]
Sophia Bush
And, wow, why was there a moment by 13, or were you just watching more TV and more conscious that that was a thing people could do as a job?
- [07:19]
Kim Raver
I think it was my mom. My mom took me to a lot of stuff in New York. I mean, a lot of, you know, whatever she could kind of, you know, get us to or afford. And she took me to this theater company and it was called the First Old Children's theater. And it was kids from 6 to 18 and really completely diverse. It wasn't sort of like what we have now, like, after school. It was a real theater company. If you were a minute late, you were kicked out of the company. Wow. And that. There was no excuses. There was no, oh, my bus was late. I mean, there were so many times where I was literally, like, running across Central park because I had missed the bus that would get me there on time. And. And I think. And, you know, Elizabeth Sutos wrote one of the. One of the productions and, you know, we would go away at Christmas and, you know, we performed at the Kennedy center and kind of. It was a real touring theater company.
- [08:19]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [08:21]
Kim Raver
And I think it was really in that moment that I. I was like, oh, this. That's where I kind of realized it was a craft.
- [08:28]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [08:29]
Kim Raver
And that it was something that I wanted to do.
- [08:31]
Sophia Bush
That's so cool.
- [08:33]
Kim Raver
Yeah. So, yeah, I think that that sort of. Sort of really where it began.
- [08:37]
Sophia Bush
Wow. And I didn't realize I'd be making these connections listening to your stories today. But listen, I'd be remiss not to say you literally grew up on Sesame Street. You're a PBS kid, and then you're talking about being in a theater company that got to perform at the Kennedy Center. Public Arts changed your life, which and.
- [09:01]
Kim Raver
How important now more than ever, right?
- [09:03]
Sophia Bush
Yeah. I think people forget that not only is PBS a service for the parents who are making sure their kids are getting supplemental education at home, but look at what these public arts programs did for you in your own life. It's really beautiful.
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Kim Raver
Yeah. Especially with my mom not being able to kind of be a part of other things to find. And it's interesting because I hadn't thought of it through that way, but it definitely, you know, it changed my life. It changed. I could see it changed the life of people who were coming and watching this theater company and. And all of the other kids involved. I mean, there are really a lot of kids who didn't have their parents around because they were working and, you know, financially needed to be at work and they couldn't be picked up at school. And I. So I think also that sort of thing of the discip that it gave all of us and also sort of a center have that was all of our owns that came from very kind of fractioned families, which I. I think, you know, PBS also reaching not only locally, but also when we think about how it has, like you said, sort of educated many of us.
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Sophia Bush
Yeah. I mean, generations of kids. It's so special. And I hope it can be a great reminder to our friends at home that it's an organization we're supporting, especially right now when it's under attack.
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Kim Raver
Yep.
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Sophia Bush
Did you feel like you had a backup plan if acting didn't work, or were you, like, gung ho as a teen? I'm doing this and, like, I don't. I don't need a plan B.
- [10:52]
Kim Raver
You know, I know I mentioned it before. My sister is such an academic. I mean, when she went to IVs, like, undergrad and grass and also like a, you know, very prestigious boarding school. So part of me was like, maybe I should make sure that I have, you know, a backup plan, because the percentages of people who work, I mean, you know, they're like. They're. They're tiny. Tiny. And so I did make sure that I did study. You know, I went to BU and I went to their acting program. So I did. I did make sure of that. But. But I. I sort of did feel like it was. It was theater or bust. And I kind of always thought that it was going to go the theater. I mean. Yeah, I thought it was just going to sort of be the theater route. I didn't. I didn't know how it was going to go, but I knew how I felt when I was doing it. And it's so interesting because. Oh, to. To answer your question back, which is, I remember sitting in the audience and watching one of the performers in this theater company, and he had a light about him. It just was like this inner thing. And I was like, whatever that is, like, that's for me, that's why I signed up to audition for that theater company after I saw. His name was Joseph after I saw him perform. And I think that that's what I kind of always come home to. It's like that. It's that feeling. And I feel so lucky and so fortunate that I get to actually do it. You know, we all know that there's so much of it that's is like trudging along to get to be able to do it.
- [12:43]
Sophia Bush
Yeah. To get to be a working actor is so hard. And also, what a wild thing to talk about in the context of the 21st season of Grey's Anatomy. Like, that just doesn't happen.
- [12:56]
Kim Raver
No. That's crazy.
- [12:58]
Sophia Bush
And. And I know that you. I mean, you joined really pretty early when you think about. In the lifespan of the show. It was 2009. It was during the show's sixth season. And six years is also a long time. Were you a fan of the show? Had you seen it? Oh, God. So were you nervous walking in there? What was it like? Take me back to 09. And what it felt like to start going to play at Seattle Grace.
- [13:24]
Kim Raver
I think the funny thing is, is that to speak, you know, like a show going on five years. What is funny is when I was doing 24, it was sort of the height of the success of 24, the height of the success of Grays. And so we were kind of like, wow. We were not. Not rivals at all, but, like, we were always. Our tables were always next to each other, like at the end or sag. So it was like, you know, the reason I also kind of knew all of Them is because, you know, at some of those, you know, like, for people who don't know, like those award shows, you'll be sitting and my chair would be, like, touching, you know, Sandra O's chair or whatever. So. And it was like, who's gonna. Who's gonna win this time? And look, those are amazing, amazing times, and I'm totally aware of those. But what was funny is. So it was literally sort of three years of that.
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Sophia Bush
Yeah.
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Kim Raver
And then I think I might have even met. I'm pretty sure that this is how it happened. I'm Betsy Beers and Shonda Rhimes at one of those awards.
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Sophia Bush
Wow.
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Kim Raver
And, you know, we kind of both had some fan moments and. And so then when I found out that I was going to do Gray's, it was this sort of crazy moment of, oh, God, well, how are they gonna. How is it gonna be when I've been sort of like, you know, like, we've been sort of like on this path.
- [14:57]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [14:58]
Kim Raver
On opposite, like, teams. Right. Like, all of a sudden, you know, you're. You've sort of been like these athletes all along, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, and now we're on the same team. And I remember I was really nervous and really, it was. Yeah. Because I. It was the day. Because they were such a tight knit group, kind of similar. 24. And, you know, you go through so much those first years of starting a show as, you know, with, I mean, your incredible success. And. And so I remember, you know, on the sound stages, we had, like, they emptied out the whole sound. So it's like this huge airplane hangar practically pitch black except for a light on this giant rectangular table that had everyone, like all of the network in the studio and the producers and the writers and the entire cat. I had to walk in to this whole group, which. It feels so different now being in it, because when someone comes in, it's just. It just feels. I don't know, it feels different. But it was so daunting. And I'll never forget, I had this sort of like, complete, like, just anxiety of walking into this group. Sandra oh. From the opposite table. Like, as far, like, if I'm at the door, she was like, at the far end table. She, like, got up in front of everyone, came around, came towards me, and I was like. And she just gave me this huge hug and welcomed me. And from that point on, it was just sort of this incredible. I just thought that was one of the most generous. And that is also who Sandra is.
- [16:42]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
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Kim Raver
But so that was sort of like the, the beginning of it. And I was like, oh, okay, here we go.
- [16:48]
Sophia Bush
And now a word from our sponsors who make this show possible. A lot of people have asked me what it felt like walking in with you guys at the top of the year, and I would say the same. And, and you have. And I've talked about this. I mean, perhaps ad nauseam for listeners at this point because I've spoken about it in every interview I've done about our storyline. But you have such a warm, lovely, grateful set. Everyone's thrilled to be there. There, everyone. There is so little ego. And I'm sure that takes time to iron out. And I'm sure, you know, in 21 years, how could you not be so well oiled as a machine, all of you? But people have asked what it's like and I said, you know, it really kind of took my breath away. At the second table read I came to, I was like, wow, every single person from the number one down shows up for this. You know, and similarly to what you're saying in your story, you know, I walked in. It was, it was actually the first one I'd been to for our second episode. I think I was on the east coast when you guys did the table read for my first. And Ellen got up and walked over and gave me a hug and said, thank you so much for joining the show. You just don't know what it does for us. And I was like, ma'am, Ellen Bombay. Oh, ma'am.
- [18:22]
Kim Raver
But she's right. I mean, she's right. Like, we felt so, just so lucky and so happy to have you. And you have just been an I. And I mean, I'm sure, like, because I've been saying it in, in every interview. I mean, you are just such a light. You're just so collaborative and talk about shining light, like, walk into the room and everyone feels it on set. And you're, you're just such a collaborator. And I just love how you're like, well, how, like how. How can we make it the best the best? And what's the most efficient and yes, most fun? And you can tell, I mean, you've just been doing it for just so many years. Your. Your professionalism is extraordinary and thank you, friend. Jump. And I mean, so I think we. That's really genuine. I mean, I think we all. To have, you know, such a shining star like walk in and, you know, sort of effuse, you know, that your light and your talent and your professionalism and your intelligence oh, my goodness. Was really and is incredible. And I, I also, you know, it's funny, there's been a lot of stuff about, like, you know, women supporting women, and, oh, they're not really supporting women. And. And I totally get that. But I do have to say every. Everything that we do, there is that ripple effect. And your support for me when I was directing and. And just coming in, extraordinary. And I'm so filled with gratitude because that energy is pervasive to the crew. And yes, it's. It's, you know, you were coming and joining us, but it is part of the sort of women supporting women and expanding and growing. And you're so generous. You are just not, you know, there's some, like, sort of gatekeeping, and whether it be on set or you're like, oh, you're going to Boston with your kid. And I have this incredible friend who, like, no, I mean, connected. I mean, you guys, literally. She was, like, on the phone and she's like, oh, you've got to meet this amazing person. She's so great. And she is this magnificent woman. And it didn't surprise me that she was such a superstar like Sophia.
- [20:44]
Sophia Bush
But what you're talking about is exactly how it felt for me. Not only do I. When you talk about, you know, 2009 and the experience you had walking in and Sandra ran up to you, and I had my experience walking into the table read, and Ellen was so generous with me. And then, of course, there's. There's Ms. Debbie Allen. I like, I'm going to die. Talk about an icon. And I go, hi, Debbie. It's such a. It's such a joy to be here. I'm Sophia Bush. And she yanks my hand toward her and goes, I know who you are. And I was like, that's so. I was like, okay, hi. And. And then you are just at every single word you said about me. I want to mirror back to you. You are brilliant and exceptional and. And I can't tell you how joyful it felt. And also refreshing to watch you, Kevin, Debbie, I mean, everyone, the crew, Byron, the way he runs a camera crew. Everybody cares about the work so much. And you're willing to pause and say, you know, what'll be more interesting is if we do it this way. I know we settled on this idea. This one's better. It allows someone like me who's coming into your space to feel like I can bring my full self and I won't be accused of being, you know, pushy or I won't Be told, oh, we don't have time for that. We've already done this. The ripple effect goes both ways, and it creates so much freedom and it's so exciting. And there are, there are plenty of shows that haven't been on nearly as long where everybody's clocking in and getting ready to clock out as soon as they can, and to be on a set that is so playful and so much fun and also willing to take risks. You know, the, the fact, yes. The fact that you, you know, as Teddi, play this bisexual woman that you have your whole beautiful storyline with, you know, your partner who passed away and what that means for you and Kevin as your characters fall in love and you have to figure it out and to see a show, be willing to say, hey, sometimes marriage is hard. Sometimes, sometimes, maybe you've married someone you love, but maybe the relationship isn't healthy. And instead of judging it or making it ugly or, or making it, I don't know, something untoward, you come in with the opposite of judgment and say, let's explore something. Let's give people room to have conversations. And the conversation, the idea might not even be the result they settle on, but let's, let's explore things and remind people they can talk to each other. And I was like, hello. It's just so fun.
- [23:33]
Kim Raver
I think there's. Because, I mean, I, I, I really feel like there's such a sense of collaboration. I mean, yes, look, television is really fast, and we all got to move, and we all know that. And, but in terms of collaborative feeling, especially with this topic, because I, I think both Kevin and I were nervous about sort of.
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Sophia Bush
Oh, yeah, tell me, what was it like when you guys found out you were going to do this? I, I'm dying to know.
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Kim Raver
Before, whenever you're shooting, like, Meg, who's amazing, she's our showrunner, and we've started this little kind of trend where we go to Joe's Bar, because it's usually where we're off, where we're shooting, and it's kind of the next set over, so we kind of go over there and we sort of talk things through of, like, what's the next storyline? And, and when she brought us, you know, sort of that she was sort of tinkering with the writers open marriage, I was like, okay. I was like, we need to sit down. So. And we also wanted to do it where we were, the three of us together, to be really sort of consciously aware of how Kevin might be feeling about it, how I might be feeling about it. And so how. So when she brought it, I was very much sort of. I wanted it to be mindful and purposeful, and I wanted it not to be just sort of something to do, like, kind of like, oh, let's just do something. Like, really, I wanted to be grounded and like, sort of with consent because I felt like I gone through a whole, like a cheating spell. And I didn't.
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Sophia Bush
Right.
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Kim Raver
And I said to her, look, you guys are going to do whatever you want to do. But if I have my input, my input is that it's not that they just want to cheat, that it's actually, in fact, a way that they think perhaps could save the marriage and that. That Teddy has, as a character, evolved. That Teddy has actually evolved from this giant mistake that she made of infidelity. And I didn't want it to be tied to infidelity because I thought that, yes. Moved forward. And so there was some just really amazing dialogue between me, Meg and Kevin, and she would digest kind of what our concerns were, go back with the writers, and then they would kind of work through it. And again, I really think, because you came in and brought such depth to Cass that it was so much more than just, again, sort of like a fling thing. I didn't. I. And you and I had a lot of discussions about that and, yeah. Hashed it out, because I think it's. I think to me, it's really interesting when stakes are really high and that helps ground whatever new idea we're trying to kind of do. And I, I. What's so amazing about Shonda Rhimes is that she's never afraid to lean into the complicated. And, you know, while an actor, you're so protective and you're like, mom, I don't know about this is really. But for me, if I can get to the nugget of the truth of it and that what the stakes are of it, I can fully get behind it. And so for me, I kind of really got to. Well, I mean, it's either trying this open marriage or it looks like they might not last. Right. And so whether open, whether you believe in it or not, believe in. And I think what's interesting is that it's. It's very complicated and very messy and very multilayered and. And again, that is sort of what Shonda never shies away from. And she really enables the characters to kind of go from low point. And I'm not saying that this is a low point, but a low point in their marriage, for sure.
- [27:40]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [27:40]
Kim Raver
But a Low point in decisions that are made to kind of your hero moments. And, And I think that that's also very relatable to fans because I think a lot of television is sort of either hero or, you know, you know, evil.
- [27:58]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [27:58]
Kim Raver
And I think that we, as individuals, we have our hero moments and we have our very, you know, low, bad decision moments. So it's going to be. It's interesting, too, right? It's interesting. How do you. How, in your experience in the last couple weeks, how have the fans. How are they digesting what's happening?
- [28:19]
Sophia Bush
And now a word from our sponsors. It's really interesting because even before, you know, we had to do so much work, obviously, and we shot so many episodes, and you do all these things so long before it airs. And one of the things that really was important for me, and you touched on it a bit, was the amount of conversation you and I got to have about this. And something that felt important to me, that I know was important to you, was that this. This wasn't some tawdry affair thing as well. You know, I. I went through that 20 years ago. It's followed me around for my whole life. It's miserable. And. And it's something I'm, like, very sensitive about even having to be adjacent to that, especially because, you know, not to be crass, but what you so often see is some guy that cheats on his wife and he's a dickhead. And, and, and the dynamic in particular here about two women really expanding their idea of intimacy and fulfillment in their 40s was interesting to me. And I think what's interesting to me is I do know a couple. They. They're a heterosexual couple I've been friends with for 10 years that are in an open marriage. I am still the friend that's like, I could literally never. I would die.
- [29:53]
Kim Raver
Right.
- [29:53]
Sophia Bush
And we laugh. But on the. On the flip side, they're also one of the couples I know who's been married the longest, and they have a really healthy relationship. And something I learned years ago from another iconic friend of ours, Connie Britton, she said, you know, she said, I never judge my characters, ever. It's not my job. But you said something that I think really rings true, which is we love our characters. So when. When we are worried they're doing something bad, we worry about them being judged. We have, like, secondhand embarrassment or secondhand fear. And what I loved about this was that it was real honesty among adults, saying, nobody talks to you about this. Like, the Disney movies don't pitch this stuff to you, right? They don't tell you how hard it's gonna be to, you know, be in a relationship. And they don't tell you what it might take to stay in one, especially if you want it. You know, I like that Cass and her husband really like each other. I like that they have a spicy energy. I like that even though it wasn't on the page, we added a beat where, you know, when he and Owen have to go back to the hospital, he kind of looks at me like, she's cute. He gives me the go ahead, you know, in that first episode we did together. And so what I found was a desire to turn the idea on its head and to represent people that, you know, aren't necessarily on the page, but who I do know and who I do care about in a. In a good way. And then when you and I started to talk about what the intimacy is, particularly what this intimacy is between two women, particularly how that is just a simply different energy that they're not getting from the men that they're partnered with.
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Kim Raver
What it is to feel seen, feel seen.
- [31:52]
Sophia Bush
To go so long feeling invisible, and then to have someone see you, that can be intoxicating. It can be a kind of chemistry. But then you have to figure out, is this the kind of chemistry I have with my friend, or is it a different kind? And so the slowness of being able to explore all of that felt really important. And I have to say all of that, to say that now that the episode has aired. So what's amazing is so many of the fans are like, I can't explain it. I'm such a Teddy and Owen fan, but, my God, I just want Teddy and cast to be together now. And, like, and people are really excited about it. And. And even the ones that hope you and Owen work it out are like, I don't know, maybe they can just be friends because we like seeing these two women together.
- [32:40]
Kim Raver
That's to me also.
- [32:42]
Sophia Bush
And I love that.
- [32:43]
Kim Raver
I know. I love that. And. And you created, I mean, so many moments, but one that really stands out to me is when Teddi kind of has led Cass, you know, down this road and that she's ready. And then in that moment of sort of feeling conflicted and saying that, oh, this is not going to fix my marriage, and kind of stops it again. What a beautiful moment that you chose for Cass to have sort of such compassion and understanding. It's. It's. It's such a. Like a whisper of. Of women supporting women in asses. Reaction to when I don't. It's a beautiful, unspoken moment, and it's very moving to me. And I think also subconsciously, people are like, oh, yeah, whatever happens with them, right?
- [33:40]
Sophia Bush
Like, yeah. And that's it. And you see it, and you see that regardless of sex or sexuality or desire or whatever word you want to use, being the top line idea, you see that it's an actual connection. And it was so much fun to build that with you because I feel, as my friend, I feel so connected to you, and you're such a wonderful artist to collaborate with. And so it was so much fun, you know, to do all of that with you. And then I sort of had a giggle because I realized, you know, you and I have all this stuff. Obviously, given the Cassidy, as the. As they're calling our ship name, given the Cassidy storyline, most of our work is away from Kevin, who plays Owen. But then I got to have this whole surgery day with him.
- [34:37]
Kim Raver
Oh, I know that.
- [34:37]
Sophia Bush
And the difference. Oh, my God, we had the time. We had so, so much fun because.
- [34:42]
Kim Raver
He'S such a great guy, right?
- [34:44]
Sophia Bush
Like, Kevin is such a wonderful man. He was also directing the episode.
- [34:47]
Kim Raver
Oh, my God, that's great.
- [34:48]
Sophia Bush
Such a talented director. So I was with him and Chandra and James, and I was just like, oh, my God. All my. All my TV idols, I'm like, I'm doing surgery with the people. I grew up watching a surgery show about. Oh, my gosh, by the way, we.
- [35:00]
Kim Raver
Have to share with your fan. Like. Like, most people come in and it's a whole, like, what the. How do I hold it? She's like, I got that hand.
- [35:10]
Sophia Bush
The thing.
- [35:10]
Kim Raver
And she's like, you know, she's got the cardiothoracic surgery down.
- [35:15]
Sophia Bush
It was so fun. It was. The medical. The medical advisor on the show was like, God, I love when people have played Doctors before. I was like, I got you.
- [35:22]
Kim Raver
I'm sure Linda Klein was like, oh.
- [35:25]
Sophia Bush
Oh. It was fun, but it was great because doing the scenes with him, you and I got to explore all of this intimacy and all of these ways women can see each other and support each other and have a different kind of rhythm with each other. And then it's like I went into surgery in the previous episode with Kevin, and we were such bros, and he's like a pissed bro. And we're scrubbing in, and I just look at him, and I'm essentially. I don't call him this, but I basically am like, dude, my bad. Misread it. You're good. Not here to get in your way. And like, it was so. It, it was almost like we were, we were two boys playing brothers in a scene. And then you and I are these like incredible, like, you know, adult women having, having this conversation about how they, how they have intimacy. And I was like, this is so funny because I got to be this woman that I really admired in, in one sense, and then I got to be like a nine year old boy.
- [36:29]
Kim Raver
Oh my God, that's so good. I love that.
- [36:30]
Sophia Bush
Yeah. Playing, playing hospital with Kevin. What, what is your relationship like with him? I mean, you guys have had this, you know, decades, almost long relationship. You have this very storied history as characters and obviously you speak so highly of him. Did you always get along? Were you so excited when you found out Owen and Teddy were going to have this great love? What, what was it like in the beginning?
- [36:57]
Kim Raver
From the moment we met, we. It's just this fantastic, like work marriage. There's such a respect for one another. You know, I think the base is. There's such a trust between us because we've had to go to some pretty, you know, our characters have to go to like these very dark, hard, vulnerable, intense places. And also we had this very kind of confusing, you know, with Sandra, Owen's character, Christina, and there was a single. And Teddy and Christina like wanted to be a team and not romantically at all, but in terms of like mentor, mentee. And she was sort of willing to give up Owen to work with Teddy. And so, you know, automatically there could have been this just like very tense relationship. But we had such a, an organic chemistry really with the three of us, me and Sandra and Kevin, because we had to navigate a lot of stuff there. Yeah. So I sort of feel like from the moment I met him, you know, I came in, Shonda Rhimes and Betsy Beers brought me in. This is, I think I was just finishing 24 when I first, first started to meet everyone, like to meet Kevin and sort of see if that was going to be a good. And we just, I remember us like sitting on this couch and I was like, hey, hey. Like, we just had such a sort of effortless. We kind of have the same sort of work ethic and similar, you know, he had been on a bunch of shows before I had been on a bunch of shows and, and you know, he's incredibly, you know, welcoming because he had been there for a while and I just, I just sort of trust him and I, I hope and I think he feels the same. So we're able to go to very raw places as creatives. And I think to be able to be on a series that does have to move so fast and, and it's a really. It's a luxury to kind of have that relationship of trust and to be able to try things. It's like, I know. I sort of know that if I'm going to be in a free fall, that he's going to catch me, which is so great because it means that you can really, as an artist, step out of your comfort zone and know that, you know, your. Your partner, who you're. You're out there with, is. Is going to have you. So I, I think I, you know, he feels that same way, but I think that that's, you know, and, and. And there's massive amounts of stuff that we have to tackle at a time, you know.
- [39:47]
Sophia Bush
Yeah, of course.
- [39:49]
Kim Raver
So, yeah, it's just really been kind of just lovely and respectful and, you know, you spend so many hours. And I think that that's also why we were so protective of this storyline because we. Our characters have been together for so long and not, I mean, like, what you were saying, I thought was really interesting and love Connie Britton. I mean, I know her all the way back from our New York theater days. And yeah, it's interesting because wasn't so much as judging the character, but. But safeguarding that we weren't just gonna do something to do it. That there was real deep intention behind it, similar to the conversations you and I had about open marriage and what is the story that we're telling.
- [40:40]
Sophia Bush
Yep.
- [40:41]
Kim Raver
That it really had a depth to it. And I. I'm sure that the writers also wanted that same intention, but, you know, the writers are always steps ahead of us when they bring us a new idea.
- [40:54]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [40:55]
Kim Raver
So just to kind of hear from them, like, what they're. What they're thinking. And I have to give the writing team just such a huge shout out, if you will, that, like, that they listen to what our concerns are then. And look, if they're total, if our concerns are like, you know, kind of, then they'll call a. Right. But if they actually are making sense, I feel like, you know, Meg really listens and kind of goes back and sort of reworks it and hones it into. Here's the initial idea here was input. And it kind of amalgamates into, I think, where we are today with, you know, the storyline of open marriage. And then also, you know, all of your incredible input and finesse to it. So that. So that it's a Deeper thing rather than just kind of clickbait.
- [41:54]
Sophia Bush
Yeah, well. And that's it, right? You. No matter what you're doing, you want to humanize it. Because that, I also think, is the way out of judgment of your character. It's the way out of feeling like something is gratuitous to make something really real, to give it emotional legs, to think through it intellectually. And that was part of what was so much fun for me, you know, coming in with you guys because you care so much and you do so much work on it, that. But, you know, it made me feel like I could also bring the best version of myself to that. I'm realizing that, you know, I was saying how I. I'm seeing how I'm seeing fans react to our storyline. But how are the fans reacting for you? I mean, you've been part of this world for so long, and. And I imagine you have a relationship with the Gray's fan base. Like, what. What's your Internet look like right now? Are people excited? Are they upset? Are they all the thing.
- [42:56]
Kim Raver
It's so interesting because, you know, I wanted to be home when our, like, the episode that I directed aired and I was away. So I haven't done, like, a sort of deep dive.
- [43:06]
Sophia Bush
Oh, you're waiting.
- [43:08]
Kim Raver
I'm kind of waiting to, like, because it just, you know, I mean, and then the finale. And I do think that there's mixed feelings. I think we. We definitely stirred up the. And I get it. You know what I mean? Like, it's kind of like, it was so cute. As I'm realizing now, the fans are going through what I went through when they first said, oh, we're going to do an open marriage.
- [43:31]
Sophia Bush
Yes. They're going through what you went through in Joe's bar.
- [43:35]
Kim Raver
What the Are you talking about? Open marriage. So I think. And then. And then some people split off and they're like, yeah, this is fantastic. I. I'm shipping that, you know, Cassidy and I love them and sort of like, how we feel about, like, all of our scenes. Like, we love it. And then I'm, like, also, like, heartbroken. Like. Like, in terms of like.
- [44:00]
Sophia Bush
But hold on.
- [44:01]
Kim Raver
Is Owen hurt? Like, what's happening? And then Owen, like, what happens with where Owen is going and his storyline? And so I think from the small little at the airport of what I read, I think it's this mix of sort of, like, what I went through. Yeah. You know.
- [44:20]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [44:21]
Kim Raver
And, you know, I get it. Like, when you've been shipping a relationship for as long as Teddy and Owen have been together, and there's something, you know, and. And it. It's on the precipice of not making it or making it. Yeah, that's really scary because I. I totally get why people. I mean, people. I was skiing up on the top of a mountain, like, go. You have to, like. It's like the. In Italian, this woman at the cash register was like, are you Teddy Oldman? I was like, yes, yes.
- [44:59]
Sophia Bush
It's like.
- [45:00]
Kim Raver
And she had, you know, feelings. So it's. It's just so interesting that it reaches such a. Like, there's such a huge reach to it. And I think it's because it's that organic thing of, like, well, if this relationship is not making it, what does it mean about my relationships?
- [45:18]
Sophia Bush
And.
- [45:19]
Kim Raver
And I think that that's also okay. Like, I think that that's what's really cool is. And that's also why I think Grey has lasted, you know, 20, going into 22 seasons.
- [45:30]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [45:32]
Kim Raver
We're all on the roller coaster of these characters. And so I totally get. I totally get the. The confusion, the ships, the, you know, the wanting of. Of all the different things and the confusion of the new things. And.
- [45:50]
Sophia Bush
Yes.
- [45:51]
Kim Raver
So it's sort of a multitude of feelings, I think.
- [45:54]
Sophia Bush
I love that. I love that. And now a word from our wonderful sponsors. When did you start directing?
- [46:11]
Kim Raver
I started. My first thing was with Alyssa Milano. You would, you know, you guys have a similar thing of just supporting other women in. In so many aspects of life. There were these three books that I, you know, with a couple other people, we were like, let's try to, you know, make these into films. And we ended up getting the rights of, like, seven books. But then they couldn't. Couldn't figure out, you know, sort of where to put this one book. And again, it was about a woman. Really interesting story. And so through, like, a sort of long, you know, kind of hall, we ended up getting three of them made. And one of them I directed with my husband, and he directed another one, and then I went back to Gray's, and then there was the third one. But it was just. It was this feeling of, you know, having kind of done the acting lane for a while that I. I just was like, oh, I want to see what. What it's like from other perspectives and. And having someone like Debbie Allen and Kevin and. And Wilson and. And watching them kind of, you know, put on a totally different hat and sort of lead the way really opened up the sort of that door for me. And so. And I Think. I don't know if I'm repeating myself, but, you know, Debbie Allen doesn't just hand out episodes. Like, if you're on the show, it doesn't mean that you're going to get an episode. You have to really. It's almost like the Debbie Allen, UCLA Film School. She's not in collaboration with ucla, but I just mean, like, you have to shadow and train. Yeah. And really sort of prove that you've arrived at the knowledge that you'll need to do it. And I. And that is what is also so incredible about her, is so that, you know, the first episode of Grace that they gave to me, they could have been like, oh, let's give her, like, a small little up. She's, you know, she hasn't done it here before. They gave me a huge episode, and it was incredible. And it was such a. You know, I mean, I had a car hitting two of the actors as a gun. I had a brick hitting another actor. I had a song. I had a birth. I had to have a real baby, but it was Covid, so they weren't kind of allowing it. So I had to advocate for that. It was, you know, an amazing storyline about women's reproductive rights. It was a massive episode. And. And really thanks to Debbie, I felt very prepared for it. And that also, I think, is incredibly important. And she understands the importance of not only when it's so hard and everyone says, oh, it's better for women, it's better. It's still really hard for female directors. Right. So that when you finally have that opportunity, it's. It's one thing to have opportunity, it's another thing to be prepared and skilled with that opportunity. I really feel like, you know, it's Debbie's knowledge of that that, like, you kind of get one shot at it, and if you arrive and you don't have the skill for it, you might not. So she makes sure that. That when that opportunity does, you know, come knock in that. That.
- [49:47]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [49:47]
Kim Raver
You're really prepared.
- [49:49]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [49:50]
Kim Raver
And she's just been an incredible mentor, and she's just really. I mean, you have to know your stuff, have done your homework. And it goes back to those days of being in that theater program, and if you're a minute late, you're kicked out. It's discipline, right?
- [50:04]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [50:04]
Kim Raver
Just. There's something for me that is so incredible to have the sort of years of acting experience and to be able to translate that into something that's sort of like in the same vein as acting, but a totally different Medium. I feel like it's like. It's just, like, blown my mind and opened up a whole other lane for me, which I. I just. I love it.
- [50:30]
Sophia Bush
Yeah. That's so cool.
- [50:31]
Kim Raver
Yeah. And Kevin was so supportive, and Chandra, I mean, they were just amazing. Everyone in their own. And I mean. And that crew. I mean, you got to experience that crew. Our crew is just amazing. I just really. I love them. They work so hard. They are there before everyone and after everyone, and they give up so much of their. Their family time. And I really. I'm just blown away by each department's talent and. And, like, we're really lucky.
- [51:02]
Sophia Bush
It's incredible. I mean, the. From the set builds and the way that they can accordion down and expand into other things. I mean, your lighting rig, everything. I was like, oh, my God, this is a amazing place to come to work.
- [51:17]
Kim Raver
Yeah, it's a really good. Really good group. And to see such a. You know, and to see so many women there, too. I mean, we've got also an incredible female dp, and she's just amazing. Yeah. And on so many of the departments, so that's really great.
- [51:33]
Sophia Bush
It's really cool. How do you think the show manages to stay so fresh because 21 seasons of material, I mean, do you think it's partially because there's never a shortage of medical stories? It is there, like, secret sauce in the water? What is going on over there?
- [51:53]
Kim Raver
I feel like it is that thing that we sort of touched upon of the willingness to go to a dark side of. Of. Of sort of, you know, humanness, and then also really show hero moments, because a lot of. A lot of medical shows that haven't lasted, you know, and so it's got to be something I feel like, that Shonda has tapped into.
- [52:24]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [52:25]
Kim Raver
You know, and I. I mean, the fans are. It's a lot to do with the fans. And I. I really. I just. I think that, you know, Shonda was willing to take certain risks and do certain things that we then carry on throughout the seasons. That really just. I mean, that is sort of lightning in the bottle, right? I mean, amazing medical shows, but for whatever reason, they don't stick. And I think. I think so many of us, you know, you and I have done shows that haven't gone on, which were like, shows, but they just don't. For some reason, they don't connect or. Or a studio or a network hasn't given its time to evolve. I think that's also a really big thing in terms of, you know, times have changed. Whereas able to evolve.
- [53:18]
Sophia Bush
I think so, too.
- [53:19]
Kim Raver
There's not as much time, so I'm sure those medical shows would have stuck around.
- [53:24]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [53:24]
Kim Raver
You know, in terms of Grays, I really. I just feel like. I think the. The humanity of what all of these people are going through and the. The ability of the writers to, yes. Come up with medical stuff and. But even, like, the open marriage thing, I'm not sure other shows would have tackled that. You know, they would have had that thing of, like, well, is she going to be likable? You know what I mean? Like, you and I have probably heard, like, heard that. And I don't know if your fans know what that is.
- [53:57]
Sophia Bush
Yeah. The likability trap is tough. And. And female characters in particular, no matter what they are, even if they're assassins, people are like, but is she likable?
- [54:08]
Kim Raver
Right.
- [54:09]
Sophia Bush
They never ask that about the men.
- [54:11]
Kim Raver
They never ask that about men.
- [54:13]
Sophia Bush
It's so weird.
- [54:14]
Kim Raver
And I think that that's what's really cool, that Shonda and the writers and our showrunner is. Is able to, like, really lean into that and not be afraid of that.
- [54:26]
Sophia Bush
Wow. That really strikes me as something, especially for the fans, I think, because it just hit me that you have women who run your show who trust how smart your audience is. They're not thinking that the fans are gonna suddenly not like a character if she's. He's human.
- [54:47]
Kim Raver
Right. Well, I mean. And think about the pilot of Grays.
- [54:51]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [54:51]
Kim Raver
Oh, it's Meredith, who is, like, sleeping with Derek. And then the next morning, he's like, gotta go. Like, you know, it's all. It's sort of like, kind of spins the stereotype on its head and. Yeah. Afraid and not afraid of it. And I don't know how they also are able to have that and. And still. And maybe that is because. Yeah. Like, you're saying the fans are like, yeah, I relate to that. Like, yeah, I. I. You know, I'm a human woman. What?
- [55:34]
Sophia Bush
Yeah, I love it. Okay. I'm curious about this, because we touched on it a little bit. It's fun to go into a surgical scene, having a little bit of surgical background. You have done so much surgery on this show. You have played a doctor for so long. How much do you think you actually know? Like, if there were an emergency, I.
- [55:58]
Kim Raver
Was gonna say, like, I know you. You're. And I, like, I know you after being with you so much this year that, like. Like, I think you actually really absorb that stuff. Like, I think, like, if I was on a desert island with you, I'd be like, yeah, I want her operating on me. Like. Like you. I'm. I would say I am really good. Like, in an emergency situation, I feel like I could be a total badass. And I want to, in my mind, feel like, oh, yeah, I could do it. I don't know if, like, the recall of, like. Oh, yeah, you would be great at. You'd be like, oh, this is the blah, blah, blah of the X blobbity blah, and you, blah, blah. And you would, like, kind of like all regurgitate all that. And I'd be like, yes. Okay. I remember down here where the heart is.
- [56:54]
Sophia Bush
That is so funny. I'm not quite sure.
- [56:56]
Kim Raver
Did they say to connect these two? Like, also, like, if I was putting together furniture, you would be my first call. Right? Like, oh, yeah, yeah.
- [57:04]
Sophia Bush
Oh, I'm so good at that.
- [57:06]
Kim Raver
See, like, you're. You remember all that?
- [57:09]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [57:09]
Kim Raver
Like, you. Like, so I don't. If I had to take a medical test, forget it. No way. But if you showed me the cavity of a body around cardio, like, thoracic stuff, because that's all. That's what Teddy does.
- [57:23]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [57:24]
Kim Raver
I think I could kind of, like, connect some dots.
- [57:27]
Sophia Bush
Okay. Okay. I like it. There's, like, paint by numbers.
- [57:31]
Kim Raver
I did tell this story once in an interview, and it's kind of embarrassing, and I'll tell you, because I think I did tell you. The short version is my husband and I are on a plane, and, you know, all of a sudden, we heard. Ladies and gentlemen, if there's a doctor on the plane, can you please come forward? We have a medical emergency. I started to get up.
- [57:50]
Sophia Bush
Oh, my God. Just your subconscious.
- [57:52]
Kim Raver
I've never seen him. This. He. He went, like, green. He grabbed my. He was like, what are you doing? I was like, there's a medical. He was like, you are not a doctor. And I was saying, I know I'm not delusional, but part of me. I don't know whether there's that part of, like, yeah, I can fix anything. I. Of course I could do this.
- [58:19]
Sophia Bush
Yeah. By the way, I gotta admit, if I was on a plane and they did the thing and no one got up, I would get up.
- [58:27]
Kim Raver
Yeah, I would. So what do you think? Like, could you save that person?
- [58:31]
Sophia Bush
I did it once. I. I told you.
- [58:34]
Kim Raver
I knew it was desert island, it would be you.
- [58:37]
Sophia Bush
Yeah. It was at a music festival. A girl started having an epileptic seizure. And I knew what to do. And people were like, oh, my God. Are you a doctor? And I was like, no. But I was like, what I can't explain right now is why I know what to do in this situation. But I do know what to do in this situation. And it's like, what I realize it's probably more honestly from having been a camp counselor and literally having to keep other people's children alive and who you are. Sure. I know a lot about a lot of things in weird ways. And I do think if we were on a plane and there was no actual doctor, I'd be honest. It's not like I'm going to be like, sometimes I know I'd be like, look, I'm not a doctor, but what's going on? Because, like, I'm CPR certified, and I do have all these other things that I know how to respond to, so let me try to help. My. My mom gets upset by that. She's like, you are the person that if there is a disaster, like, if. If there was an explosion in a building, you run toward the building while everyone's running away. And I'm like, obviously, I'm gonna. I'm gonna help. And she's like, you're my kid. Run away. Run away from the disaster. And I'm like, oh, you are a.
- [59:50]
Kim Raver
Doer, and you are a fixer. I mean, do. I mean, do you remember, I think the first time we actually really met, and I'll tell your fans, you were handing out homemade soup to the UPS delivery man during COVID I was. And I was like, I love this woman.
- [60:09]
Sophia Bush
I was like, oh, my God, you're my neighbor. Was that.
- [60:13]
Kim Raver
Wasn't that the first time?
- [60:14]
Sophia Bush
Yes.
- [60:14]
Kim Raver
Yeah.
- [60:15]
Sophia Bush
I made soup for J.P. he's wonderful.
- [60:17]
Kim Raver
Honey.
- [60:18]
Sophia Bush
I did Neighborhood. Yeah.
- [60:20]
Kim Raver
By the way, everyone, it's so nice.
- [60:22]
Sophia Bush
We have a cute. We have a cute little zone in the city.
- [60:26]
Kim Raver
I'm not gonna tell you where it is, but it's a cute.
- [60:28]
Sophia Bush
No, but it's cute. And we. And we do love our UPS man. We do for life. And now a word from our sponsors that I really enjoy, and I think you will, too.
- [60:40]
Kim Raver
Foreign.
- [60:44]
Sophia Bush
This is a random question, but because you've done the show for so long, I'm curious, because the answer for me was yes. Have you ever stolen anything from the Gray's set?
- [60:54]
Kim Raver
Yes. The first time I left, I stole my scrub cap.
- [60:58]
Sophia Bush
Cute.
- [61:00]
Kim Raver
Because it. Me. It's. There's so much meaning in the hat for Teddy with the birds and Allison.
- [61:06]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [61:07]
Kim Raver
Yeah, I think.
- [61:09]
Sophia Bush
Oh, I love that. I mean, I waited until we wrapped, but I took. I did Take some things. Like, the funniest part is that when we wrapped, my girlfriend Hillary, who's one of my best friends from that job, was not working on the show anymore. She had left after the sixth season. So the biggest and most like, not incognito in any way, shape or form. Things that I stole were actually for her. Like, I stole her this chair that had a table attached to it.
- [61:38]
Kim Raver
I was just gonna say. Did you steal a chair?
- [61:40]
Sophia Bush
Yeah, it's like a 1950s telephone chair. And then I stole her a lamp.
- [61:45]
Kim Raver
Timeout time. How did you walk out with a chair?
- [61:49]
Sophia Bush
I mean, I, like, drove up to the soundstage and just put stuff in the car. Now, in my defense, they were selling everything off.
- [61:57]
Kim Raver
Okay.
- [61:58]
Sophia Bush
And I was like, I'm going, wait.
- [62:00]
Kim Raver
This is your show. Not.
- [62:02]
Sophia Bush
Oh, not from Grays.
- [62:03]
Kim Raver
Oh, my God. It's like, how did you pull up. You thought I stole a chair from Grace? Load up a chair?
- [62:09]
Sophia Bush
Could you imagine? No, but I did, actually. I took photos. They were redressing some set, and there were these sconces and boxes, and I asked the set deck team where they came from, and they were like, oh, they're vintage. They're from a prop warehouse. So I took photos of them so I can try to reverse image search them and see if I can find them online anywhere.
- [62:30]
Kim Raver
Oh, that's really.
- [62:31]
Sophia Bush
I wanted to steal them, but I wouldn't. No, I wouldn't actually, like, like, steal steel, but I was like, if you're gonna sell all these things that have immense emotional meaning to me to strangers, I'm gonna take what I want before the sale.
- [62:44]
Kim Raver
That's totally. Yes. I mean, they were. They were selling them. They were giving them away. That's exactly you.
- [62:50]
Sophia Bush
Yeah, that's how I felt about that. Exactly. I like that you have your scrub cap. That's perfect. I'm just realizing how long we've been talking. I could talk to you forever. I wish we, like, had a glass of wine and we were in the same place.
- [63:01]
Kim Raver
Well, we're doing that walk.
- [63:02]
Sophia Bush
We're doing that very soon. Yes. I will ask you my last and favorite question to ask everyone who comes on the show who graces me with their presence, what feels right now like your work in progress as a human, or in any way, whatever comes to mind. It can be a career thing, a personal thing, Anything you want. Oh. Oh, my gosh. So many things I'm always working on, making sure the only opinions I listen to come from people who matter to me, which, in our line of work, is really hard. I am, I am working on saying no to more things because I want to say yes to everything. I want to do everything for everyone. I want to get on every zoom. I want to help with every project. And I, I just don't actually have enough hours in the day. Right. So I'm trying to get better at saying no carefully. And I am. I am constantly working on letting. Letting how happy I finally am in my life really hit me.
- [64:22]
Kim Raver
And that feels nice, hard, and a great one. I think that comes from learning how to love oneself. Because if we learn how to love oneself, then we can accept the love from the other. Does that make sense?
- [64:40]
Sophia Bush
Yeah, maybe.
- [64:41]
Kim Raver
I think it's kind of a great thing. Those are all amazing and beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, I think, I think really continuing sort of following this directorial pathway. I.
- [65:00]
Sophia Bush
Cool.
- [65:01]
Kim Raver
Yeah, it's really, it's just something that I, I just love that. I mean, for me, that moment when the first time where, you know, I had for at least the gray's one where I sat that at home and I was kind of figuring out how to do this new thing and then I was at the Game Boy, which for your. It's the one. You have the three. I know. You know, but for your fans, when you have like the three screens and you can see the three cameras shooting at once and I, I, it was like. It was like all of a sudden like being a diver underwater in the ocean and seeing all of these things that I had never seen before. So it like opened up like this whole world for me.
- [65:46]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [65:47]
Kim Raver
And I'm just so. I just feel like there's. I'm so blown away by it and I feel like there's so much to learn and what's so exciting to me is to sort of find something within the field that I do that I love, but that's like blowing my mind. And I, I love that, like, where I am in my life and my career that I can find something that really turns me on and excites me and terrifies me and, you know, not sure what the path is and to really kind of lean into that and.
- [66:21]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [66:24]
Kim Raver
And I think, I think something also that I'm, I'm like working on is. Is similar saying no, but it's like voicing when something is not. Is uncomfortable or not working for me. I'm so used to, you know, being in agreement and, you know, and I think directing is also helping me find my voice in that. Because when you're directing, you have to lead the Troops. But for me, also in a very collaborative way. So I think, yeah, trying to translate that into my life of. Instead of. Of like you said, sort of saying yes to everything also, as women were taught to, especially in this business, to not, you know, rock the boat. Don't, you know, don't make any waves. Don't, you know. And you have to find all of these ways to kind of like, like pretzel your way through the thing because you don't want to, like, be difficult or be labeled in any way or. And I think what's been so interesting about directing is it it enables me to sort of speak up to what and believe in my own vision. And whether it's right or wrong doesn't matter what. What matters is sort of the collaborative vision that I have and believing that that is of importance. So that is kind of, wow, my life and as well as like into my vision creatively. So that's sort of what I'm working on.
- [68:03]
Sophia Bush
I love that. That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing. Yeah. And thank you for coming to hang with us today.
- [68:12]
Kim Raver
Thanks for having me.
- [68:13]
Sophia Bush
I know all the fans are so amped to hear from you and it's been such a joy to come and play on your show.
- [68:20]
Kim Raver
I know having you two is a real gift. You're just like I keep saying to everyone, such a intelligent, collaborative, unique, talented, amazing human being. So it's just been such an amazing, amazing season and I hope we have more stuff together.
- [68:39]
Sophia Bush
I do too. Fingers crossed.
- [68:42]
Kim Raver
Yeah.
- [68:43]
Sophia Bush
Thanks, Cassidy forever.
- [68:47]
Kim Raver
That's so cute.
- [68:48]
Sophia Bush
All right, cutie. Thank you. Enjoy the rest of your day.
- [68:51]
Kim Raver
All right, thanks, honey.
- [68:53]
Sophia Bush
Bye.
- [69:09]
Kim Raver
This is Dr. Laurie Santos from the Happiness Lab at the Boston Marathon, presented by bank of America. Thousands of runners are raising funds for life changing causes and you can help make an impact. Visit bofa.com helpacause to donate and support a runner's fundraising efforts. Together, we're making a difference. One step at a time. What would you like the power to do? Bank of America?