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- [00:00]
Sophia
You're listening to an iHeart podcast.
- [00:05]
OT Feg Benle
Imagine a toilet so striking it inspired a couture dress.
- [00:11]
Sophia
The Kohler Veal Smart Toilet in Honed Black actually inspired creative director and fashion designer Laura Kim to create a stunning black chiffon dress.
- [00:23]
OT Feg Benle
The Veil Smart Toilet with its curved design, deep rich textural color, touchscreen remote control and customizable cleansing features can transform your routine into something extraordinary. And we all deserve extraordinary. Design changes everything. Valsmart Toilet in Honed Black only from Kohler Discover the Val Smart Toilet and go behind the scenes of Kohler's partnership with Laura Kim@kohler.com Go almost everywhere with.
- [00:53]
Ryan Seacrest
The podcasts you love on T Mobile's network because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now. Keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid cart. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com keepnswitch up to 4 lines via virtual prepaid card will have 15 days qualified unlock device, credit service port in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption. Required card is no cash access and expires in six months.
- [01:21]
Sophia
Hey friends, let's talk about simplifying our beauty routines. I know we have all been there feeling overwhelmed by 12 step skincare regimens and palettes with 50 eyeshadow. Here's the thing, I don't have time for that and I'm pretty sure you don't either. That's why I am so excited that Merit is sponsoring this podcast. Merit is all about a less is more approach. Their makeup and skincare products are designed to enhance your natural beauty, not cover it up. From their minimalist foundation and concealer all in one to their incredible flush balms, it's like Blush but better. With their simple products, I can get my whole routine done in under five minutes. If you are looking to simplify your morning, head to meritbeauty.com and get their signature makeup bag free with your first order. That's meritbeauty.com you see the world differently.
- [02:15]
Ferris State University Ad
Where others see empty lots, you see blueprints. Where others sit in lecture halls. Future leaders choose Ferris State University to build something real. Ready to dig in and learn through action. Ferris State gives you the tools, the team and training to unleash your potential with paths to high demand careers and in state tuition for non residents. At Ferris State, students don't just study, they build. They lead. They succeed. Visit Ferris Edu Ferris State University. We build champions.
- [02:43]
OT Feg Benle
Oh, whip smarties, do we have the scoop for you. So what is it, you ask? It's that Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide.
- [02:55]
Sophia
But before you tell us to clock.
- [02:57]
OT Feg Benle
Out of our shift at the rumor mill, we have proof that this kettle of tea is not only piping hot, but 100% true. So, yeah, sometimes it pays to be a little nosy, but it always pays to Discover. Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report. Learn more at discover.com credit card.
- [03:15]
Sophia
Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello, friends. Welcome back to work in Progr. Today we are joined by an actor that I am such an enormous fan of. You likely know him from his award nominated role as Luke Bengkole in Hulu's groundbreaking drama series the Handmaid's Tale. I was obsessed with his character in Presumed Innocent alongside Jake Gyllenhaal, Ruth Nega, and Peter Sarsgaard. And he was absolutely hysterical in Lute alongside Maya Rudolph and amazing on Netflix's no Good Deed with Lisa Kudrow, Ray Romano and Dennis Leary. OT is here today to talk about art, the last season of the Handmaid's Tale, politics, parenthood, and everything in between. And I'm gonna get to pick his brain about what it was like to play former President Barack Obama. Let's jump in with OT Feg Benle.
- [04:33]
Merit Ad
Howie Baseball cap there.
- [04:35]
Sophia
We sure did.
- [04:36]
Merit Ad
I love it.
- [04:36]
Sophia
I should have thrown my Dodgers hat on someone.
- [04:40]
Merit Ad
Ghost is a gift. I don't, I don't know anything about baseball.
- [04:44]
Sophia
Baseball for me is really more about going with friends and like getting the hot dog and the beer and having the experience.
- [04:50]
Merit Ad
I'm not good in public. Like big, lots of people like, like lots of people around me. I'm not, I'm such a homebody. I never, I never really get out very much. I'm a big basketball fan and even like every now and then, like some opportunity to go watch a game will come up and I'll be like, I'm good in my garage. Like I'm in right now.
- [05:08]
Sophia
Yeah, I mean, you can, you can see it better on ESPN anyway.
- [05:12]
Merit Ad
This is what I'm saying. I don't even know what the advantages are. I. Uncomfortable seats. You don't get to see all the angles. I don't know where my glasses. I'm squinting.
- [05:21]
Sophia
Well, what we're going to have to do at some point is get you to a Liberty game so you can see the girlies play Because Barclays Stadium for that team is the most fun I ever have in a crowd. And I don't love a crowd either.
- [05:35]
Merit Ad
Okay. I have not seen the Liberty play, but I've seen plenty of ladies basketball. My sister's in the W, Timmy. Yeah, yeah.
- [05:49]
Sophia
She's. Oh, my goodness.
- [05:50]
Merit Ad
It's not an overstatement to say that she is the most decorated British basketball player, man or woman, of all time.
- [06:00]
Sophia
Wow. I thought I was gonna ask you all about your shows today, and here I am being like, what's. What's it like to be the brother of one of the goats? How does that feel?
- [06:08]
Merit Ad
It feels great. I remember the first time because I come from a basketball in family, and I remember the first time, like, she took me down into the post and, like, you know, like, gave me the old elbow and, like, made a layup on me, and I was like, oh, okay. When your little sister can dunk, it's a great feeling. Yeah, we used to. I play outdoor basketball a lot, and we, I take it, you know, we go down to the outdoor court. There's one day in particular I remember that she was wearing, like, a summer dress and she was just dominating, and it was just like watching these guys have to. Have to live with someone in a dress, taking them down and, like, doing post moves on them. It's one of the happiest moments of my life.
- [06:50]
Sophia
Oh, my God, what a vibe. Yeah, that feels like the next, you know, Nike or Adidas commercial getting ready to go.
- [06:57]
Merit Ad
Oh, yeah, that's true. I should pitch it right?
- [06:59]
Sophia
A hundred percent. I'm like, I'll direct that. All right. This is actually a perfect segue. Well, first, where are you today? Where are you in the world right now?
- [07:08]
Merit Ad
I'm in my garage in la. In. Yeah, yeah, West Adams.
- [07:14]
Sophia
Okay, cool. Oh, I love it. Yeah, I went to usc, so.
- [07:19]
Merit Ad
Okay, what did you study?
- [07:21]
Sophia
Well, I went for a BFA in theater.
- [07:23]
Merit Ad
All right.
- [07:25]
Sophia
And everyone was great, by the way. But I, you know, at 18, I think I just sort of thought, are we. Is all we're gonna do, sit around and question our instincts all day? Like, I think this is really starting to make me a crazy, self conscious person. And so I wound up shifting and. And studying journalism and political science at Annenberg.
- [07:48]
Merit Ad
Okay.
- [07:49]
Sophia
And I loved it because in this weird way, what it did was it took every movie I watched, every play that I read, and it made me really think about, how does it feel grounded? How does it feel real? Every one of these stories should be the sort of story that Might be covered on the news one day. Right, right. Like, anybody's life can. Can be looked at like that. So it gave me this balance that I think I needed. You're. You're a drama kid, too?
- [08:17]
Merit Ad
Yeah, well, I define drama kid, but basically, yes, I think probably under any definition. I started doing drama classes when I was around 10, and then. And then I. I was gonna go study economics and politics at college, and then I. I, like, on a whim almost, I thought, let me try and see if I can get to drama school. Which is a very unlikely thing to happen, to be honest, because in England, back then, back in my day, back.
- [08:43]
Sophia
In my day, they.
- [08:45]
Merit Ad
They would, like, audition, like, 2, 000 people, and they. And each year at Radar, they would take, like, one black kid, like, and so, you know, that was the average. And so the odds weren't great.
- [09:00]
Sophia
Yeah.
- [09:00]
Merit Ad
And so I didn't expect to get in. And then I did get in, and I was like, oh, I guess this is now the root of my life. So we almost went. We went different ways. You started studying theater and went into. And I did the opposite. So. Yeah.
- [09:13]
Sophia
That's so funny. All right, so that's interesting, because I always wonder, you know, I sit across from somebody like you, and people know your work. They. They've watched you. They have relationships with you based on, you know, series or films or. Or theater even. And I'm always really curious if we went back in time, you know, maybe to that boy that was watching his sister dunk in a dress. If you got to hang out with yourself when you were 9 or 10 years old now, do you think you'd see the man you are today in that kid? Do you think you guys would have so much to kind of go, ah, I get it. I see how you became this person. And you could look at him and go, holy shit. You were always like this, you know what?
- [09:58]
Merit Ad
And this is. I don't know how many of your listeners have this, but I don't have a good sense of myself as a child. I don't have a very good memory for back then. I have scattered pieces. And so I feel quite disassociated with my younger self. Like, and it sounds weird to say, but my relationship. My younger self is similar to my relationship with my stories of my granddad before I was born. Like, I feel connected to it. It's part of my history. But I find it's very unintuitive to think that's me. I don't have a strong connection to, like, There was some kid who existed and that kid grew to become me. But I, I don't, you know, it's not completely like that, but it's partly like that. That being said, so I'm hungry to ask. I asked my mom, my dad, you know, parents and, and family members, you know, what they remember of me as a kid. And it seems like it checks out. It seems like there was no huge departure. There was, there was consistency, even though there isn't like a lot of memory of that consistency.
- [11:00]
Sophia
Yeah, I get that. It's funny, I, I have that conversation with my family sometimes too. There's, there's these sort of seminal moments that I remember, but then my parents will ask me about things and sometimes I feel so bad when they go, what, you don't remember this? And I'm like, no, I was probably in the backyard chasing a butterfly. I don't know what I was doing.
- [11:20]
Merit Ad
Right.
- [11:21]
Sophia
I wasn't, it wasn't kind of imprinting on me, I think in the way it might have for an adult who was conscious of a moment in time or their child's achievement, you know, now I wonder, when I look at the kids in my life, I'm like, what are you going to remember? Are you going to know that you were so obsessed with this movie and we had to watch it every night for seven months? Like, or will it just be a memory in the bag? I don't know.
- [11:46]
Merit Ad
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Remember to talk like, you know, I have a, I have a three year old and a two year old and super cute. But it is interesting just going, oh, you know what? Feels like the majority of my life energy is focused towards pouring into them and going, oh, what does this mean that you won't remember all these trips to the park? And then you know, like, so what is the value of this? And you know, kind of like through studies and through life that, oh yeah, well, this all does go, this all does pay into that. This all does develop something. It just won't be memories of like a thousand change diapers. And that's a weird thing to think.
- [12:27]
T-Mobile Ad
Yeah.
- [12:28]
Merit Ad
And also, you know, when I don't say to you like, oh, you know, I used to change a diaper as a kid. There's nothing I find more irrelevant than what you used to do for my kid. You know, like, it's like, okay, great, next subject, you know, so. And it's gonna be like that for them, you know, okay, great, dad.
- [12:48]
Sophia
It's like the thing you would never want to say to your auntie or your grandfather is like, do you think about it when you piss? Of course you don't. Babies don't think about it. But I think it's so fascinating what you're saying, you know, that the real. That repetitive affection or encouragement or certain kinds of speech create safety, agency awareness in children. And it's such a trip to have littles in your life. My partner's kids are four and almost three. And to watch what they become based on what they watch, the ways they develop, what they're conscious of when things kind of hit them. And then you see that milestone day where a thing you've repeated a thousand times, clicks. And then they make this leap. It's like, I can't believe we were ever that small.
- [13:43]
Merit Ad
Yeah.
- [13:45]
Sophia
And then you look around and go, holy shit, now we're the grownups in the room.
- [13:48]
Merit Ad
Oh, my God. I know. The development of consciousness. Like, one of the things that came to me watching my kid go up is that, like, actually preference is a huge part of personality. Do I like the blue or the yellow? Do I like this music? Dancing or not dancing? This food or that food? And actually, like, a lot of what one might call personality is actually preference. And it's. And it's fascinating to me to see that at six months old, you know, like, that straight noodle is absolutely unacceptable. And the curly noodle, I will have a tantrum if I don't have that, you know? And so where do these preferences come from? And, you know, it goes. One of my big fascinations and philosophical fascinations is free will. And. And what goes to that is. Is choice. Why do we make the choices we do? And to what extent can we change the choices we make and stuff?
- [14:33]
Sophia
Yeah. Oh, that's a nice, heady one. I. That's a conversation I love. I'm curious for you. Where do you think. When you kind of reflect on that stuff, you know, the agency, the choice. Growing up in a basketball family, where. Where do you think your agency or desire around performance came from? Do. Were you a really bookish kid? Did you love to read and then want to see books come to life? Or were you watching movies, going, I'm gonna do that?
- [15:03]
Merit Ad
You know, Again, I don't remember a lot of my childhood, so. But. But I. I do get some of a sense that I was a bit of a performer. But I also come from a family of storytellers. Telling stories is a big part of our family, and I come from very. Both my parents are very demonstrative in the way they tell stories and all of that is relatively natural to me. But it wasn't always a dream of mine to become an actor. Like, I was gonna do economics and politics, so. And that's 18. So up until that age, it never entered my mind that I would do anything apart from either some type of economics, politics, sociology. That was my interest, or basketball. And unfortunately, I wasn't skilled or tall enough for that one, so. And so, actually. And it's. It's interesting. I meant I'm a mentor to some young people, and it's interesting, this idea of, like, doing what you're passionate about. And, of course, like, I really like that thing, but it wasn't what I was most passionate about. It was what I think I was most uniquely best at. And my passion for it grew as I dedicated more and more of my life to it. And so. So it's interesting because it kind of came the other way around to it. I. I was. I had some talent. And then, because that talent, I eventually, about six years in, started applying myself. And through dedication came more passion. And passion came dedication in a virtuous circle.
- [16:22]
Sophia
Right, Right. It's like. It's like when you learn to till soil, the garden is so much more fruitful. Right.
- [16:29]
Merit Ad
Well, I know nothing about gardening, unfortunately.
- [16:33]
Sophia
So I don't know a lot about it. But as they do now, you know, our devices and our phones and everything's always listening. So now that I'm beginning to dig a little deeper past the research I did a few years ago when I decided I wanted to be a beekeeper, and I just wanted to know what would please the bees outside. Now I'm trying to learn more about how those ecosystems work. And now everything. Every time I open any electronic device, it's like, did you know this interesting fact about coastal rosemary? Would you like to learn how to build a vegetable box? And I'm like, yes. But also, this is so creepy.
- [17:11]
Merit Ad
But you know what? I've got this really mixed feeling about these kind of, like, bespoke algorithms, because on one side, it's creepy, but on the other side, like, if you're gonna give me. If commercials are a fact, then don't give. I don't want to watch a commercial about some random thing that's not interesting to me. Like, give me a commercial about something. You know, sometimes I go on someone else's YouTube, I'm looking for a video, and I'm like, what is this trash? Like, I'm not interested in this, you know? So I'm actually not. I'm not too against it, obviously at a point it can become like intrusive. But yeah, if I'm into bees, give me the beekeeping. So wait, why did you. Is it an environmental thing or you just wanted your own honey?
- [17:46]
Sophia
I had always wanted to do it. I think it came from environmental passion. And, you know, I grew up in LA and I spent most of my childhood all up and down, you know, Central California, California coast. I love the mountains and learning about how to sort of stand up for nature was so important to me. And then I just sort of knew I had this weird thing where I was like, when I'm a grownup, I'm going to be a beekeeper. And then I realized, shit, I'm a grownup, so maybe I should start. And so I decided to plant the things I knew the bees would love so that I could work with this non profit in LA that would bring a beehive over. Essentially, you can sign up so when they have to get a beehive, a swarm out of like a building or somebody's backyard or whatever, they'll bring it.
- [18:38]
Merit Ad
They don't just throw it in there. Wait, how much space do you need? What's the minimum amount of space to have?
- [18:44]
Sophia
You don't need a ton of space. What you need is they have to go more than three miles from where they were taken or they'll go right back. They have really intense. Basically, like, BGPS is perfect. And. And so the coolest part of it was I. I planted this whole garden. It was my big Covid project stuck at home. What am I going to do? And one day, the guys helping me finish these like terraces I was doing run up to the house and they go, we stop. We have to stop. There is a huge beehive in, in the base of the wood pile. And now that we've gotten down there, we see it. We don't know how long they've been there. We have to call an exterminator. And I was like, exterminating. I was like, this is my field of dreams. I built it. And they came.
- [19:31]
Merit Ad
Wow.
- [19:32]
Sophia
So we rescued my own bees.
- [19:35]
Merit Ad
Wow. They didn't have to go far.
- [19:37]
Sophia
No. It's crazy. And what I learned is you can only move them up to 24 inches a day because essentially it's like they think they've come home a little drunk and they can't get their key in the front door. They're like, wait a second, this. Isn't this my house? Oh, yeah, this is my house. But if you move them any more than that, they'll just start to rebuild the hive right where it was. Or if you move them more than three miles, it resets them and they'll stay put.
- [20:01]
Merit Ad
Yeah, we can't get back. One of my other, one of my so cool interests, which I wish I was smarter about, is like, be intelligence, like ant intelligence. I feel like the metrics and the way we kind of like perceive of intelligence just isn't appropriate for the way bees and ants and other. But it's clear that they have all the hallmarks of what we think, you know, problem solving and novel situations and, and like, and the adaptability. And it's just. I'm just fascinated by it because I can't bring my. Bring my head around to properly conceive of how their intelligence, collective intelligence works.
- [20:36]
Sophia
It's truly incredible. And by the way, knowing that you have a passion for politics, as do I, bees are studying. Bees will teach you so much about how we should live. They work as such a team, as such a unit, and their hives are these societies and everybody takes roles. And I remember, you know, during the fires, not at the top of this year, but probably three or four years ago, there was a crazy fire season in LA that backed up to summer. So it was like over 100 degrees out. And the bees would line up on the edge of the hive and flap their wings to blow colder air inside to cool the hive and keep the queen safe. And they would take turns almost like penguins do in the freezing cold, you know, going to the outside of the huddle to keep each other warm. And I was like, wow, they really just know how to show up for each other. Very emotional.
- [21:35]
Merit Ad
Yeah. That is incredible. My goodness.
- [21:37]
Sophia
Kind of cool. And I. I don't know, maybe. Maybe it really resonates with me too, because for us as actors, you know, you're just one of the many hundreds of people on a set. Right.
- [21:48]
Merit Ad
Well, I think I'm special now, speaking yourself. I'm unique now.
- [21:54]
Sophia
I'm the queen bee. Okay.
- [21:57]
Merit Ad
I kind of got a wake up call when I did my first short film, which is like over a decade ago now. And I did think the actors were special on the set. I knew consciously or unconsciously, I was just like, I'm a very important part of this situation. And then I made this short film and it really just humbled me because being a director, all the things that actors complain about, like being brought in like three hours before your scene starts and, you know, and then all the other people on the set, the focus puller the sound guy. All of these people are as important to me as my actor. And yeah, sure, my actors are super important. But if you have to wait around Mr. Actor while we wait for them, then you're gonna wait around. And it really just kind of like opened my eyes, my little. Yeah. Self obsessive to like, oh, there is a bigger picture out here and you are just one bee in the hive.
- [22:51]
Sophia
That's it. It really is a hive and it has to function as a system. And now a word from our sponsors that I really enjoy, and I think you will too.
- [23:01]
OT Feg Benle
There's nothing more pleasant than the discovery of unexpected beauty in everyday objects. And what's more unexpected than a beautiful toilet? An elegant, sleeked, curved, beautiful toilet. And you see, this toilet is the Kohlerville Smart toilet in honed black. Its unique shape and color are so stunning that they actually inspired fashion designer and creative director Laura Kim to design a couture dress. Beauty inspires beauty. The sleek curved, honed black Vail Smart toilet from Kohler and the long flowing black chiffon dress that Kim designed were born from the belief that design can transform how we live and feel. The Vail Smart toilet, with its bold design, intuitive touchscreen remote control and customizable cleansing features, creates an experience that is far beyond the expected. It can transform your everyday routine into something that is extraordinary. And don't we all deserve extraordinary? Like a gorgeous Laura Kim design dress? And if you don't know Laura Kim, you should Design changes everything. Veil Smart toilet in honed black only from Kohler. Discover the Veil Smart toilet and go behind the scenes of Kohler's partnership with Laura Kim@kohler.com hey friends, let's talk about.
- [24:20]
Sophia
Simplifying our beauty routines. I know we have all been there. Feeling overwhelmed by 12 step skincare regimens and palettes with 50 eyeshadows. Here's the thing. I don't have time for that. And I'm pretty sure you don't either. That's why I am so excited that Merit is sponsoring this podcast. Merit is all about a less is more approach. Their makeup and skincare products are designed to enhance your natural beauty, not cover it up. From their minimalist foundation and concealer all in one to their incredible flush balms. It's like blush, but better. With their simple products, I can get my whole routine done in under five minutes. If you are looking to simplify your morning, head to meritbeauty.com and get their signature makeup bag free with your first order. That's meritbeauty.com you see the world differently.
- [25:12]
Ferris State University Ad
Where others see empty lots, you see blueprints. Where others sit in lecture halls, Future leaders choose Ferris State University to build something real. Ready to dig in and learn through action, Ferris State gives you the tools, the team and training to to unleash your potential with paths to high demand careers and in state tuition for non residents. At Ferris State, students don't just study, they build. They lead. They succeed. Visit ferris. Edu Ferris State University we build champions.
- [25:40]
OT Feg Benle
Oh, whip smarties, do we have the scoop for you. So what is it, you ask? It's that Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide.
- [25:53]
Sophia
But before you tell us to clock.
- [25:54]
OT Feg Benle
Out of our shift at the rumor mill, we have proof that this kettle of tea is not only piping hot, but 100% true. So yeah, sometimes it pays to be a little nosy, but it always pays to Discover. Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report. Learn more at discover.com credit card ready.
- [26:13]
T-Mobile Ad
For another dose of mystery, mind games and psychological intrigue? The Hulu original series 9 Perfect Strangers, starring Nicole Kidman is back for an all this season, a new group of visitors with mysterious connections to each other journey to an exotic healing retreat set high in the Swiss Alps. In this opulent winter wonderland, the group is subjected to a unique vision of therapy that takes them to the very edge of sanity. As they peel back the layers in a series of shocking twists and character revelations, the retreat's leader reveals her own complex motives as the strangers unravel before our eyes. Everything is revealed in a visually stunning and intoxicating finale that will leave you breathless. Starring Nicole Kidman and with an all star cast including Christine Baranski, Murray Bartlett, Henry Golding, Annie Murphy, Mark Strong and King Princess, nine Perfect Strangers is your next must watch drama. The season premiere of Nine Perfect Strangers premieres May 21st. Streaming on Hulu.
- [27:20]
Sophia
I remember not necessarily being disillusioned with our job, but on my first show, which, you know, we thought would go two or three years max. And then we did nine seasons. Like, when do you, when do you ever know that's gonna happen? In our seventh season, I started directing, okay. And in the most interesting way, it made the whole show. Even though we were seven years into this place, these characters, it made the whole thing feel brand new for me. It made me feel so inspired, so lucky to do what we do. It, it sort of felt like it really expanded my creativity. I, I'm, I'm envious that you got to do that so early in Your career as a director on a short. Because it's just, it changes you, I think in the best way.
- [28:08]
Merit Ad
Yeah, it's really interesting. I like, I, I'm. I think one of the things I like about life is diversity. I like, I like trying new things and I found that there's just lots of stuff that I'm not good at. You know, I'm not particular dancer. Like, I mean, I'll dance on a dance floor and have a good time. But if you want to teach me tap, I like, I tried to learn how to tap. It just, I just, it didn't come intuitively. Directing was very intuitive to me. It was like, it was this rare experience that you get every now in life where you go, oh my God, I really like that. I found the thing I really like and I think passion is really the precursor to talent. And so, yeah, it was wonderful for me. My first short film, we had a budget of $50, we spent $40 on pizza, you got to feed people and $10 on a stick to hold the microphone that I'd borrowed. And yeah, and it was so, it was real, real low budget stuff, but it was, yeah, it was a real transcendent experience for me.
- [29:02]
Sophia
That's so cool. I think about early career stuff and I, I read in an article prepping for today, you were talking about, you know, being 30 and wanting to stop landing these guest roles and go for these bigger parts, you know, expanding yourself as an actor. And you, you told the story of like, you know, 100 auditions and no callbacks. And I was like, honey, oh my God. It took me right back to my first pilot season, going on probably 100 auditions, you know, running around LA in panic. Like, how do you, how do you think now having the career that you do and having done these amazing projects that you've been on and, and reflecting on that early directing, do you, do you think that those early experiences helped keep you focused in a way? Or do you think you just had that sort of young person's determination that I think we all had to have to survive to get here?
- [30:06]
Merit Ad
I mean, look, I don't know, I really don't know how to answer that. I am a pretty driven person and I find it hard to be too idle for too long. And so I'm gonna put my energies into something. And there is a point where I could give up acting like where I was like, okay, well look, it's just not working and I need to be able to be self sufficient and you know, I've begged and Stolen. It's not working. And so I give it, you know, so there, there is stuff I could have faced which could have turned me back, but it would be a pretty high mountain. And so. And also I didn't have. For most of my career up to that point. When I turned 30, I would just do anything at the children's theater. I did. I did theater in old people's homes. I did, you know, like. And so the most important thing for. I was doing shorts I was paying to be part of. I was doing. I was still doing acting classes. Like. Yeah, I was very. I was always involved and engaged creatively. And I think that helps not become too disillusioned because if you can't become completely divorced from your creative outlets, then I think that that can feel like a death.
- [31:11]
Sophia
Yeah, that's a beautiful way to think about it. What was it like auditioning then for the Handmaid's Tale? Because now you're seven seasons, you know, the show is seven seasons in, which is so crazy.
- [31:25]
Merit Ad
Yeah.
- [31:25]
Sophia
And. Yeah. How did it. Did you know then? Because it was an adaptation of the book. Like, did it already feel it? Like it was going to be a really big deal? Was it nerve wracking or. Or did you have that. That sort of energy on and go. No, I know this is for me.
- [31:40]
Merit Ad
Oh, I never really. I know when, when I can do a part like the times I read it and be like, I'm gonna do my thing on that. Now you may not want my thing, but I'm gonna get to do my thing on this. And. But anyway, all that to be said, look, you had lots of people faces. Now you put yourself on tape and you just like get thrown into the ocean. You just like never hear anything back.
- [32:02]
Sophia
And you're just like weirdest.
- [32:04]
Merit Ad
Yeah. And so this was just another self tape that I was doing and I had a great actress friend of mine, Nikki Emo Kuma Bird, who put me on tape. And she's great because she's a person who just like make me do another take and another take, another take. Even though I'm like, I think we've got it. She's like, go and just do another one and changes. So I had that and anyway I sent it out. One thing that I did have though is that Reid Morano, who was the director, I'd worked with actually the DP on a little gig I'd done before. And so I kind of had reached out to her and I think sometimes lots of those kind of like cross, you know, they can that cross pollination, that can help something go. But when I was offered it, Lizzy Moss wasn't who Lizzy Moss is now, you know, and Hulu wasn't what it is now. I mean, it's hard to remember, but Hulu won the very first Emmy for best drama series. So with Handmaid's Tale, so I. E. Before then, they were not on the map. They were nowhere. So far from feeling like, oh, this is the one. To be honest, when I first got offered it, I was like, okay, great. And I said to my agent, so nothing else on. All right, we're definitely sure. This is great. Great. I was happy about it. It was great source material. I wanted to work with Reid again because she's extraordinary, but there was no sense of what it would be or how long it would go or anything like that.
- [33:29]
Sophia
Yeah. Oh, what a trip. I'm such a fan of Reeds as well. It's cool to hear that. You guys, a great person, work together. Yeah. So what is it like now? I mean, you know, the show, you're preparing for it to come to an end, and obviously the whole dynamic, as you said, of the show and the streaming platform itself and all of it has exploded and changed. Is it bittersweet? You know, I. I imagine part of you is ready for the next thing, for more freedom. But then it's also this incredible thing you've all been doing and this cultural phenomenon and this reflection on society and, like, it's big.
- [34:11]
Merit Ad
Yeah, I know. You know what? Because I. I got. I get asked this question, variations of it quite a lot, and I guess my. My intuitions about it seem to be different from what the. The question implies, which is that I. I don't know, have much of a sense of it ending, which is. I mean, number one, my last day on set was five months ago, you know, or whatever. Six months. And since then, I've worked on three other projects, and I was working on another project, you know, so. Yeah, so. So the sense of, okay, what day did it end? Well, it kind of ended six months ago, but. But in a weird way, I don't feel it's ending because I feel like what it is for me is the experiences I've had with the cast and the crew, the experience I've had growing as an artist with the material. And so that's what it is. And so that is with me, like, that. That can't end. And so, look, the paycheck I got on the last thing, okay, that's gonna. I'm gonna have to find a new paycheck. And so will I miss the guaranteed? Yeah, Okay. I can miss. But that's not what people are talking about when it's like, are you going to miss it? And so. And for me, to be honest, I haven't watched most of the show, and.
- [35:25]
Sophia
Because you've been making it, I've been.
- [35:27]
Merit Ad
Making it, and I. And that's my relationship with it. My relationship is with the scripts and with the cast and the crew and the sets and. And so. So. So the thing that I like to say, well, I miss it. Well, I can just call Lizzie. I mean, I was just texting with Amanda yesterday, like, so I'm not. I'm not gonna really miss them. And hopefully we'll do other projects together. And sometimes it's two years before handmade. So, anyway, I guess all of this to say is that my. There is. In me personally, there's no sense of mourning. There's great gratitude. We did it. We did it. You know, what was it? It's supposed to last forever, you know. Okay, great. So it ended well. That's the best you can ever. For us.
- [36:05]
Sophia
Yeah, it's true. It's really beautiful. And I think it is interesting to think about because it is a streaming show. To your point, the end is much longer. It's not like you're finishing a season of a crime drama on CBS and three weeks later, the finale airs and you're still moving out of your apartment, and then it's over forever. Like, you get a much longer tale with something like this. That's cool.
- [36:28]
Merit Ad
Yeah.
- [36:29]
Sophia
Was it a neat thing in. In these latter years, not just working with Lizzie? You know, who you talk about being so exceptional. I imagine you built such a. An intimacy and a rapport as, you know, castmates, co workers, friends, with her playing your wife. But in the end, to circle back to our queen bee theory, she also started directing. What was that like? You know, to get to expand your creative relationship with each other while she was in the director's chair.
- [37:03]
Merit Ad
Well, when she first started, you know, the sense of it is that you just want to support her. You want her to win. And there is a real camaraderie amongst the cast and crew. Like, we are here for each other. We're here for the material. And like. So Lizzie's directing. Great. How can we support you in this? Turns out she didn't need our support, quote, unquote, because she was just an absolute natural and nailed it visually and acting, you know, with the actors and stuff. And what I came to find is that I had some of my best performances with her as director because she kind of understood my process as an actor. And it's like, I don't know, it's stupid stuff. Like, very often my best take is after I feel like Dave directive has got what they want. You know, my people pleaser. I'm just like, are you happy? And then you tell me, okay, well then you could do anything. And then. And very often it's then when something will catch. And so she knows me well enough almost that she's almost like quite early on, she kind of pushes me to be a bit more of it. And so lots of little nuanced type things like that where she can help pull out the best of me. It's great work with it.
- [38:14]
Sophia
I love that. And it's really nice to hear. Not just hear you. I mean, I'm, you know, for our listener friends out there in the ethers, I get to look at you while we're talking as well. And it's nice to see the way your face lights up when you talk about that creative relationship and the. And the energy on set and. And being seen. Especially because, you know, as a viewer, as a fan, the world is so dystopian and the experience that the. That women in this world have with men is by and large so terrible. It's sort of gorgeous to hear about how nice it is for you guys as real people because, yes, as an actor, your job is to service the material. You have to play the. Out of somebody, whether it's the lead in a rom com or a serial killer. But it can be so heavy to, I think, wade through material this grave. And I don't know, I. As another actor, I'm so, like, touched watching you grin, talking about how great she is and how you guys get each other and you speak the same language because, you know, a lot of what you have to portray for those of us who watch you is so gnarly.
- [39:28]
Merit Ad
Oh, gosh.
- [39:29]
Sophia
How do you make space for that? You know, how do you. Is that sort of surreal? Especially. I know you can't take it personally, you know, it's not you, but. But also, is it weird at moments to be aware of, you know, being a man in. In that. In that version of the world?
- [39:47]
Merit Ad
Yeah, I don't know. It's hard to. Because I. I guess when I'm Luke, I'm inhabiting his perspective of the world. And when I'm me and it's. I sometimes get. And also my processes is that.
- [40:00]
OT Feg Benle
That I.
- [40:00]
Merit Ad
When I'm acting, I always speak as, like, I. I don't ever say that. Even me just saying now when I'm Luke, my natural instincts say I. Like, I. I'm in the role. I'm saying I do this. My wife here, you know, like, that's that.
- [40:11]
Sophia
So.
- [40:12]
Merit Ad
So it's hard sometimes for me to differentiate. So it's like, oh, me in the world of handmaids and me out the world of handmade, I guess. Look, the overall and tell me if this is an answering your question is just that I try and stay woke. I try and stay informed about, like, what's going on in the world. But my energies and focus go to where are the places that I have levels of influence? Where can I make this. This issue a little bit better? Where can I contribute here and all the rest. I just try not to keep on my shoulders too much.
- [40:45]
Sophia
Yeah.
- [40:45]
Merit Ad
And so when I'm doing the scene, I'm not thinking about, wow, you know, overall, what it. What is it? Oh, my God. And. And, you know, the. How the dawn downtrodden and how our society is, like, affected by race and class and gender and sex. And I'm just like, you know, what is going on in this scene right now between me and this person? And. Yeah, and for me personally, as an actor, you know, I played Mercutio, right? And Mercutio gets stabbed in the stomach and then dies. Bleeds out knowing he's going to die young and missed the rest of his life. Oh, it was so fun. It was so fun.
- [41:26]
Sophia
I bet that was gorgeous.
- [41:29]
Merit Ad
And so, so, you know, so it's the same. I'm doing, you know, acting in the Handmaid's Tale. You've got to weep. Your daughter's been taken from you. Oh, how tasty. Give me more. Yes, yes, yes. You know, like, I'm not going away. Oh, my heart is broke. Oh, all the fathers who have lost daughters. Yeah. No, I'm like, my. My. My job is to, like, in the moment when I'm doing it, you know, I'm methady, you know, and so it's. It's hard emotionally, but ultimately, as a person, I don't go home and have bad dreams about it.
- [41:58]
Sophia
Yeah. Well, I always think the balance of that is sort of fascinating because our. Our job is to shut out the rest of the world and just be as present as possible. As you said, in the scene, in the moment, every day you got to do the thing. And. And I think there's something so freeing about that. But it's also gotta be kind of crazy to look at, as you said, to be conscious of what's happening in the world. Have you ever had a day where you see a news story or some insane thing is going on and you're like, are we manifesting the bad guys? Like, what, what's happening?
- [42:35]
Merit Ad
It.
- [42:35]
Sophia
It. I, I would imagine maybe. Obviously you've got to focus when you're on set, but like, when you're on hiatus and you see what's going on in the world, are you just, just like, oh, boy, you know what?
- [42:49]
Merit Ad
Yes is the simple answer. But I think I take the real world so much more seriously than I do the art. That. It's like the, the art is like, I don't know, a low resolution simile, a rhyme of reality. And so I'm much more engaged in like, reality. And so, yes. Oh, it's interesting that there is a poem about what's going on now. But. Yeah, but, but if I read an article now, I'm not, I'm, I'm not really thinking about handmaids. I'm thinking about, oh, oh, gosh, my daughter, you know, what kind of rights would be available to her. And, and, and to be honest, also, I try and remind myself that I think it's very, very easy to become very America centric in terms of like, what's going on. And, and you know, I, I've done quite a lot of charity work and I mean, I've not done a lot of charity work. I'll take that back. I've. I've got a charity where we've done some work. And most of my focus has been on women, young girls in Africa and, and particularly in Zimbabwe, Tanzania, Nigeria. And it's like, so, so when I'm dealing with like, the specificities of that, it's kind of not connected to, you know, you're figuring out, okay, well, how can we help facilitate micro loans for farmers in Zimbabwe is a different type of like, you know, questions as well. So, so that's. Sometimes they're not as immediately like, oh my God, these are, you know.
- [44:22]
Sophia
And now a word from our wonderful sponsors.
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Sophia
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Sophia
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Sophia
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- [48:48]
Sophia
You reference your background and where you grew up and you know, whether you're working on the African continent or, or you have the English part of your history or you're working in America or you're filming in Canada, it's like there is, there is such a, I think there's a beautiful gift about coming from multicultural backgrounds. And I think one of the greatest gifts of what we get to do as actors is that we get to live everywhere. Everyone becomes our neighbor.
- [49:16]
Merit Ad
Yeah.
- [49:17]
Sophia
And you, and you really do get to sort of learn so much about people in society and, and you know, for me, leaning into knowing how my dad was raised in Canada, knowing how my mom's family in Italy grew up, knowing how, like, you know, seeing the differences in their experience versus my experience growing up in America, it, it gives me a lens on how to remember how big the world is. And also then I can't help but pay attention when I'm like, oh, look, fascism is rising everywhere. Oh, no, y.
- [49:51]
Merit Ad
But, you know, we have, we've had the, the elections in Australia and the elections in Canada.
- [49:58]
Sophia
Oh, and it's been so lovely, you.
- [50:00]
Merit Ad
Know, and so I, I think, you know, I, I try as much as I can get kind of like apocalyptic in my thinking. And I do try and like, yeah, just remember, you know, when I go, oh, everything's going to fascism, I go, no, no, no, no. Look, they can always, you know, well.
- [50:19]
Sophia
And I, I think service can really help you reprogram your brain to always look for the helpers, to always look for who's, who's doing the good things.
- [50:28]
Merit Ad
Again, always look at the helpers Isn't that the helpers? Isn't it? But that's not conference like an American kids show.
- [50:34]
Sophia
Oh, oh, oh, Mr. Rogers.
- [50:35]
Merit Ad
Mr. Rogers, yeah. We never had Mr. Rogers, but I played some for my son and we were looking for like, good tv and I remember this thing about like looking out for the helpers kind of thing.
- [50:46]
Sophia
Yeah, Mr. Rogers, he was, he was like kind of gangster. This sweet old man who wore his cute cardigans, which by the way it turned out, his mom made for him.
- [50:57]
Merit Ad
Oh, wow.
- [50:58]
Sophia
Like, just so utterly precious. Was really. He was kind of a gentle revolutionary. He was very pro equity. And he, he took a lot of leaps and bounds on TV that no one else was. And he did it with that, that sweet little old man face and voice. And I, as I learn, as I've learned more about him over the years and even his fight for PBS, I'm like, damn, I wish I could have bought Mr. Rogers a beer. Probably doesn't even drink beer.
- [51:28]
OT Feg Benle
Would have had to buy him a cup of tea.
- [51:30]
Merit Ad
Tell me, are you more optimistic or pessimistic about the world? Like, let's just give it the next 10 years.
- [51:37]
Sophia
If I am being pragmatic and I have to work on that because I. People, I think, because I am a fighter for justice, people who, who don't know me well, assume that I'm always angry about something and I'm like, no, I'm actually wildly optimistic to the point that it's been a bit dangerous. So I try to be very communicative about reality so people can know how to organize. Sitting in that pragmatism, I think it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better, which makes me sad. But I also believe that there is that we are in a moment of a shift where people really are being touched by the reality that there are so many more of us than there are of the oligarchs. You know, the, the fact that we've had the, you know, here in the US We've had the theft of a trillion dollars from the working class to 18 billionaires in the last 10 years is pretty terrifying. And I'm afraid for people who will suffer in ways that that sort of oligarchy class can't even fathom because they've never had to go without. They've never had to make certain kinds of choices. And I, I worry about people, but people want to help each other. And I think as. As we see what's coming, I'm really hoping that the opportunity that it felt like we kind of squandered when the pandemic hit, and we really had a chance to make some great shifts, especially in terms of public health and especially in terms of the way we show up for each other. We got more isolated, sadly. And I think people are realizing the effects of that and the radicalization that happened and all of these things. And my hope for us, this is where the optimist comes out, is I'm like, we're better together, people. I really do think people are good. I think fear can make us cruel. But when you really start to see your neighbor, spend time with your neighbor, everything changes. And I. I don't think we're as different as a lot of folks would like us to believe. And I really. I really hope that what's happening now is. Is kind of lifting this veil for a lot of people. I definitely. I definitely feel like I'm seeing it in certain ways. And I'm just hoping. I'm hoping it doesn't take us the lessons that it took a hundred years ago.
- [54:15]
Merit Ad
Right.
- [54:16]
Sophia
To come back to each other, because they were brutal and horrible and awful. I'm. I'm really hoping that we can do better because we know more now, but I guess we'll see. How do you feel? Feel?
- [54:29]
Merit Ad
It's a great answer. Much better than anything I'm about to say, for sure. Well, how do I feel in terms of. Do I feel optimistic about the next 10 years?
- [54:40]
Sophia
I don't know if it's optimistic or pessimistic. Just how do you feel? And maybe where do you want to live?
- [54:46]
Merit Ad
I know, I know. It's a good question. I. I feel like. My sense is that we live in very revolutionary times, and the rate of change and progress and potential for damage. There's huge variability when I kind of try and assess the probability distribution of the future. And so it's hard to say, really. I mean, in particular, I think the administration that we have is strangely. I don't mean this in a necessarily good way, but not in a good way. Revolutionary in the terms that it's just changing really hard and fast. Lot of. A lot of things that have been, like, kind of set in place and.
- [55:30]
Sophia
Yeah.
- [55:30]
Merit Ad
And how much damage or even potential progress in various areas is so unknown. And it feels like. And then we've got a long Runway for that to kind of all play out. And then on the other hand, there's like, AI, which I think, you know, I think has the danger of being underhyped. I think the ways in which AI may change Our societies over the next decade are going to be quite profound. And so, so I'm uncertain really, which is special.
- [56:05]
Sophia
Me too, me too. And it's, there's things that make me nervous. You know, in the, in the sort of theme of the show of yours we've been talking about most. I see the, the way AI tools are being used at really alarming rates to abuse women and girls. And I am working with some really brilliant people who are ringing the alarm bell about what serialized violence against women and girls means as a tipping point for society.
- [56:36]
Merit Ad
Can you tell me more about how AI has been used to.
- [56:39]
Sophia
Yes. So deepfake pornography, for example, is when you, when you consider not just how we need to think about it, but actually what we understand in terms of the data, of what it does to victims. It is the sex trafficking and the digital rape of women and girls. It is, it is allowing for content that creates the same kind of PTSD as physical assault. And it is being weaponized against famous women, non famous women, neighbors, teenage girls and children. And over 98% of the victims of this kind of abuse are female.
- [57:20]
Merit Ad
Right.
- [57:21]
Sophia
And so when you think about, you know, sexual assault being used as a weapon of war, which obviously is a war crime, but what it indicates for society, what it indicates about the level of brutality with which you see your neighbor, it's a, it's a tipping point for the kind of violent conflict that should alarm all of us. And the way that it is sort of shrugged off because it's, quote, digital is also alarming because, because the human brain cannot tell the difference between seeing a videotape of an assault and an AI assault. So it is creating desensitization, it is creating memory. When it is imported into virtual reality, it creates the illusion of an experience. So what does that then do to women and girls in the world who can be approached on the street by men who think they've had sex with them against their will? You know, it has really alarming ramifications. And unfortunately, companies like Meta and Google and every tech company that we all use make a fortune surfacing this content. And we've seen increases like in the thousands of percent. So two years ago there were around half a million views on this kind of content, and, and today we're seeing over 4 billion views a year. So to see the explosion of it and, and to know that it is currently something that we are not legislating fast enough against is terrifying because not only is it creating a more unsafe society for 50, 51% of the population. But the amount of energy it takes to assault women this way, like what it's going to do to the planet, is really scary. Now on the other side, we see incredible opportunities for AI and it's actually why my best friend and business partner, we advocate, we both invest in what we believe to be good AI, and we are literally advocating in Washington and in front of Congress for protections and laws to be made about this bad side of it. We produced a documentary about it. It's called Another Body. You should watch it. It's fabulous. But, you know, we invested in this amazing woman. You know, she is a black woman from Detroit who realized from an engineering background that started in automotive, she went down this incredible rabbit hole of what AI can do. And the, the best way I can kind of explain it is if you think about a disease that, that medicine can't figure out how to treat, they can't drug it. So people are dying. It's basically like the disease is locked, right? It's like a padlock. And they're trying so hard to find the key, but it can cost billions of dollars and 15 years of clinical research to find a key that might fit the lock. She has developed a way to essentially use AI to, if you will. This is a metaphor, obviously, but imagine being able to 3D model the lock so you can 3D model the shape of the key. So she is cutting down time to create drugs that can save people's lives for previously, quote, undruggable diseases with this technology. And you see AI catching breast cancer five years before a radiologist catches it and all of these other wonderful things. So what worries me about that technology is kind of what worries me about society at large. It's like if we're in the 2000 and twenties and you compare it to the world in the 1920s, are we going to go the terrible route of the 1930s or are we going to have a 2030 kind of revolution that sees community and access and us stand up for each other or not. And so I don't really know, but I'm hoping that we can be smart about it. And I hope that, you know, AI can go solve diseases and we can still make art, because people need art so badly.
- [61:45]
Merit Ad
Yeah.
- [61:46]
Sophia
Sorry to kind of scramble your, your brain.
- [61:49]
Merit Ad
No, not at all. I think about AI more than I think about anything. Really.
- [61:53]
Sophia
Really?
- [61:54]
Merit Ad
Yeah, I, I spend more time, I.
- [61:55]
Sophia
Have to send you some things.
- [61:56]
Merit Ad
Oh, yeah, I definitely do. I, I, I, I, yeah, I, I spend more time like trying to study AI and, and its implications More than anything else, I studied, to be honest. So. So everything. I guess all you're saying, I'm. I'm just like, you know, taking in and. And, you know, processing. I don't know. There are so many things I think about everything you said, but I just don't even know where it starts. I'm just like, yeah, yes, thank you for that. But. But, you know, extraordinary the work that you're doing. And. And, yeah. And just like you said, we're trying. Yeah.
- [62:23]
Sophia
And now a word from our sponsors.
- [62:28]
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- [63:46]
Sophia
Hey, friends, let's talk about simplifying our beauty routines. I know we have all been there. Feeling overwhelmed by 12 step skincare regimens and palettes with 50 eyeshadows. Here's the thing. I don't have time for that. And I'm pretty sure you don't either. That's why I am so excited that Merit is sponsoring this podcast. Merit is all about a less is more approach. Their makeup and skincare products are designed to enhance your natural, natural beauty, not cover it up. From their minimalist foundation and concealer all in one to their incredible flush balms. It's like blush, but better. With their simple products, I can get my whole routine done in under five minutes. If you are looking to simplify your morning, head to meritbeauty.com and get their signature makeup bag free with your first order. That's meritbeauty.com you see the world differently.
- [64:40]
Ferris State University Ad
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- [65:08]
OT Feg Benle
Oh, whip smarties, do we have the scoop for you. So what is it, you ask? It's that Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide.
- [65:20]
Sophia
But before you tell us to clock.
- [65:22]
OT Feg Benle
Out of our shift at the rumor mill, we have proof that this kettle of tea is not only piping hot, but 100% true. So yeah, sometimes it pays to be a little nosy, but it always pays to Discover. Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report. Learn more at discover.com credit card ready.
- [65:40]
T-Mobile Ad
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- [66:48]
Sophia
It's that sort of same feeling I was talking about earlier year about the bees where I was like when I grow up. And then I was like, I think I'm a grown up. You know, my, my best friend and I have this experience five years ago we kind of looked around and went, oh, are we. Oh God, we're the adults in the room now. Oh, we have to start. We can't just volunteer for other people right now. There's people who, they want to volunteer for us. Oh God. So you know, we're, we're definitely trying to. But yeah, I think in, in my, in my most ideal outcome scenario that technology would make more space for the rest of us to have more reasonable hours and also make more art.
- [67:35]
Merit Ad
I know, I really hope for this version. This kind of like UBI and, you know, but over the last 30 years, all the efficiency that we've managed to create in automation and with the Internet, all of those things, those, that, that, that all that efficiency has just gone to the oligarchs. And there were economists who would predict that that efficiency would go to labor and therefore labor would become shortened and we would have more spare time, more time with our family. And, and, and it's just not the way it's gone. And it makes me kind of like a little pessimistic.
- [68:07]
Sophia
But ot don't, you know that they couldn't give it to us because the oligarchs needed more yachts?
- [68:14]
Merit Ad
This is, I mean, and this is the thing.
- [68:15]
Sophia
Because a fleet of yachts isn't enough. You need, you need a whole shipping yard, apparently.
- [68:20]
Merit Ad
Yeah. And if you don't become enough, then you need to build spaceships. And so.
- [68:23]
Sophia
Oh, my God.
- [68:24]
Merit Ad
Yeah. I mean, we, we really do. But like what you said, you know, us coming together, us finding our union, our community, and ultimately voting in representation that will. Because the market is great. Like, you know, the market is great. A bunch of stuff. It's just not. It just isn't so great at some things that are really important. And if we don't have strong government that kind of comes and steps in to take over from the go market or at least affect the market in ways that are going to protect labor, protect people, protect working people, protect people who are from disadvantaged backgrounds. And we're at the mercy of the yacht builders.
- [69:00]
Sophia
Well, yeah, and that's the thing. All of the progress, however fraught, all of the progress that particularly art, has been made in our living generation. You know, the, the forward strides terrify people who don't desire more balanced power. But I think the more of us who can understand that, if you have more power, so do I. If I have more power, so do you. Like, we, we hopefully can affect change by, I don't know, by being willing to, you know, to see each other and I guess by being willing to trust the economists. It wasn't lost on me that a few weeks ago, you know, when she spoke, I think it was in San Francisco, Kamala was like, oh, you mean this plan that those 19 Nobel economists said would trash the economy? And mine was great. You mean this plan is trashing the economy? I'm not going to say I told you so. And I was like, yes, I needed I did, I did. I did need just like a moment of humor for her.
- [70:04]
Merit Ad
Well, what's your. I mean, I'm just curious what. And please don't ask this question to me back because I don't know. But what's your, your assessment of, of why the election went the way it did? Like, well, why do you think, you know, in November last year, like more people didn't make the choices that look, you know, to Kamala seems so obvious. What, what, what, what do you think? You know, number one, Number two is there.
- [70:28]
Sophia
I think there's a lot of algorithmic influence there because when, when you start to look at what anger porn essentially, people were being fed depending on their Algorith was accused of being blue in one person's algorithm and accused of being red in another. And the messaging was completely effective in both of those algorithms. I also think, I hate to say it, that the world hates women in power. They just do.
- [70:58]
Merit Ad
The world or America?
- [71:00]
Sophia
I mean, America certainly, but a lot of the world I think as well. Unfortunately, it's a confluence of so many issues down to the uplift and new popularity of Trad Wives. Like all of it is advertising. And unfortunately, when you, when you look at the way they essentially advertised against progress and against her and against labor, let's be clear, it worked. And then it was compounded by, and I think really made worse by the fact that, you know, we have a now president, a second term president who is paraphrasing Adolf Hitler to drum up terror and anger and anti immigrant sentiment. And you know, people keep being like, stop making those comparisons. I'm like, well then stop quoting the guy. Like stop. We won't say that you're using his words if you don't use them, but you're using them and so is half your staff. So it's like that stuff is really effective, unfortunately. And when you don't have policy to run on, you have to run on that fear, loyalty. You have to create a cult when you have nothing to defend. And he's done it. And I think it's really unfortunate and I think the fact that the man who bought the election for him for $256 million controls the largest sphere of influence and could algorithmically program 300,000,000 million people every day. You know, he's turned around and he's made himself what, $8 billion so far, if not more. It's like it's all just a grift. The cryptocurrency and the Saudis buying 2 billion of it. And you know, oligarchs from around the world doing. They're literally buying America. And I think everyone who realized they got sold outrage porn right now is like, oh, oh. But the scary thing is, and we talked about this a lot in his first election, when you. When you open Pandora's box, you don't really get to close the lid. When you create a cult, when. When people buy into QAnon. And the guy who started it is like, I didn't think anyone would take me seriously. This was like fanfiction on the dark web. Like, well, people are trying to kill each other over your fanfiction now. So again, it's it. It harkens back to the way I feel about AI. It's like, we better get some regulation on some of this stuff before it's too late. I'm excited that. Is it in Sweden or Switzerland, maybe neither now. Of course, I can't remember. I'm gonna have to look it up afterwards. Somewhere in Europe is proposing a bill to make it illegal for politicians to lie. Lie and that they will get fined every time they lie to the public. I'm like, yeah, yes, that should. That should be it. Because if I hear one more person say, oh, Ben Shapiro doesn't believe half the he says on his show or on Fox, but it's how he gets the clicks.
- [74:13]
Merit Ad
All right.
- [74:14]
Sophia
I'm like, are the clicks really that worth it to you, bro? I don't know.
- [74:18]
Merit Ad
It's whales, apparently. Quick Google search. That's good old Welsh.
- [74:22]
Sophia
There we go. The Welsh. Welsh. The Welsh.
- [74:25]
Merit Ad
Now, now, look, I. Look, everything you're saying to me makes absolute sense. Absolutely. I think sometimes when I look at the world, I'm always like, okay, that's what those people, my antagonists are doing. That's what the obstacles are doing. Where is. What do I need to do different? They're going back to sphere of influence. Like, what are the things that I can do? Do you retrospectively look back and go, hey, we played it perfectly, then we were just up. What do you think? We're. Have you. Have you seen Ezra Klein's new book on abundance?
- [74:55]
Sophia
Yes, I ordered it.
- [74:57]
Merit Ad
It's really. It's really worth. I found. I found it really compelling listening to him talk about, you know, this new vision of, you know, Democratic leaning. Democratic vision for abundance for America. And anyway, I'm just curious. What. Have you got any takes on, like, what you think our holes were?
- [75:15]
Sophia
I think there's a lot. I think at the end of the day, it's tough to. I Think it was really tough for people to understand and it started in 2016. I think people don't understand how influential these non traditional channels are now. I don't think we have been cultivating spheres.
- [75:36]
Merit Ad
Right.
- [75:36]
Sophia
You know, the man, the manosphere is funded by the right, by Russia, by all this dark money. We haven't cultivated spheres that are based in reality. We don't, we haven't fought back against Mitch McConnell's 40 year plan to defund American education. So do we, do we really want to judge people who can't necessarily understand a complex economic proposal from someone qualified to hold the office of president, when folks are just trying to figure out how to pay their electric bill and feed their kids? Like we have to demystify policy a bit. I think we have to talk to people where they are. And I think what we have to do a better job of is fight back against this insane idea that because we define, defend labor and we defend building a prosperous middle class and, and a, and a well taken care of like a living wage, I want people to make a thriving wage, a well taken care of working class. That doesn't mean we want you to stay there. But there has been all this research that I've read in the last few months about how folks who don't fall into these upper classes in this country believe that the Democrats want them to stay where they are, that we don't believe in class mobility somehow saying you shouldn't, you shouldn't be stuck making, you know, $46,000 a year in a factory job. Why not double? They're like, how dare you think I'm not worth more than $90,000 a year? And it's like, nobody said that, by the way. I don't care. Launch a company, win the Powerball, whatever. Go be the most. Go become the richest person you know. I would love that for you. I would love that for me, by the way. But I'm not saying you don't deserve more. I'm saying I think you deserve more than what you have so that you actually have the space to continue to work up from there. But there is this fallacy in public opinion that they think that Democrats don't believe people deserve wealth. And it's like, that's not it. I just don't think people deserve to be oligarchs. Like Elon Musk didn't make, make, you know, whatever, close to a trillion dollars by doing anything. He's made it by stealing from everyone and underpaying his employees and grifting global Governments for contracts. Like, I just want you guys to have some of his money, actually.
- [78:03]
Merit Ad
Yeah. I think the conversation about, like the, for example, like the top rate of tax often kind of when people hear, oh, you want the top rate of tax to be 50%. And straight away in one's mind, it's like, so you want to take 50% of my money? And it's like, oh, you know, whether it's 10 million or whatever, the number is that above that every dollar is taxed at X amount. It's just, it's intuitively, even for me, like, they hear, they just intuitively feel like, oh, that's crazy. You don't take it enough. I'm struggling paying the bills. But just, you know, that's.
- [78:36]
Sophia
Yeah, it's like, I'm telling you, you don't know anyone who would get taxed like that. Neither do I.
- [78:41]
Merit Ad
Right.
- [78:42]
Sophia
We don't know those people. And they'd be fine.
- [78:45]
Merit Ad
Yeah, and it's, it's.
- [78:46]
Sophia
They'd be fine.
- [78:47]
Merit Ad
Yeah, it's. It's so interesting. I mean, I guess it kind of then, you know, I guess the most seasoned, potentially counter argument to that is that, okay, well, then you risk the flight of, of. Of business. You risk the flight of rich people who, who do pay numerically a disproportionate amount of wealth, even if it's not like, proportionately. I don't know if that makes any sense. Sense. But, but, yeah, but I mean, obviously they're always around that, you know, taxing wealth as opposed to taxing income and all those kind of things.
- [79:17]
Sophia
Well, that's the thing. I don't care if you're wealthy. Go be wealthy. Good for you. All I'm saying is if you have $2 billion, I think you'd be fine. With a billion, you'd be fine. You'd be great. Good for you. I. Great. But, you know, when people talk about, you know, what this country used to be, I'm like, you mean when wealthy people paid a 70 to 80% tax rate? When all those social services you want, but you don't want other people to have, everyone could have. When the wealthy people 75 of their income, like someone with a billion dollars you don't think could live on $250 million billion dollars? I'm not saying you can't have a jet. I'm not saying you can't have three jets. I'm just saying maybe you don't need to be able to afford to buy Boeing as a company when kids don't have lunch. At school.
- [80:17]
Merit Ad
Yeah.
- [80:18]
Sophia
Call me a, call me a radical.
- [80:20]
Merit Ad
Well, I mean, many would. And maybe you are.
- [80:26]
Sophia
Maybe I am, yeah.
- [80:28]
Merit Ad
I mean, I wonder, and I wonder this about America and I also wonder about England, where I come from, whether or not, not like where, you know, like whether or not those value systems. It seems to me in the Nordic countries that intuition is kind of fundamental. It's in the ground, like the intuition that, oh, we're going to have a net that means you cannot go broke because you got sick. Like, that's unfathomable. But I do wonder whether, and this is part of the incredible dichotomy of this amazing country, which is that on one hand that it can be so capitalistic, so market led, that you can have great innovation, you can have great, and on the other side you have this incredible poverty. And that's ultimately the gamble that the people of the country en masse want to take. And it's like, well then am I just, am I just a minority that thinks, hey, why don't we scale it back a bit, you know, like, well.
- [81:25]
Sophia
But I think that's, it's, it's the false binary there. I'm not saying, you know, poof, we're socialists. We are. Everybody gets the same income and if you have over 10 million, you get nothing. I'm not saying that. I'm literally saying keep a billion, but maybe not two.
- [81:45]
Merit Ad
I know, I know.
- [81:46]
Sophia
And, and, and so here's what I think is really interesting, right, Is there's this idea that we're going to take it all away and then no one's ever going to be able to get rich. And you might not be rich now, but you could get rich.
- [81:59]
Merit Ad
Right?
- [82:00]
Sophia
And if we give everybody support, then you're not rich now, but you'll never get rich. And I'm like, okay, so essentially you think you're going to win the lottery, which is delusion. But I still play, by the way. It's fun. I like it, I like my little tickets. I'm like, what if it's my week? I don't know. But, but what's crazy to me about this idea is it's like they've, they've poisoned the well. And again, I'm not saying, saying we should be a socialist country, but what I am saying is it's ironic to me that we have socialism for rich people and capitalism for poor people in America, right? Rich people get all the socialist benefits.
- [82:38]
Merit Ad
Yeah.
- [82:38]
Sophia
They get the tax breaks, they get the income shelters, they get the write offs, they get to Offshore their. They get to write off their private jets, but teachers can't write off colored pencils and paper for their colored classrooms. Like, it's cuckoo bananas to me.
- [82:53]
Merit Ad
Right, Right.
- [82:54]
Sophia
And so for me, I'm like, look, be as capitalist as you want, but also just pay your taxes.
- [83:00]
Merit Ad
Right?
- [83:00]
Sophia
I would much rather Elon Musk pay his taxes than teachers have to figure out how many power bars they can afford to buy because half their kids aren't getting enough calories during the day. Like, I just. I don't feel bad for the guy. And again, I don't think we should take all his money away. I'm just saying, like, at a certain point. Point you don't even. You're not even gonna miss it. Like a wealth tax. You're not even gonna miss it, bro.
- [83:25]
Merit Ad
Yeah, he wouldn't even know. God. And I mean, I guess to that extent, it's almost just like, oh, can we just have it fair? Can we have it equal? Like you said, like, we. So, you know, the average person on the average, A homeowner, a person in the middle class has to pay tax on what is their biggest source of wealth. For most of them is the equity in the. Their home. We, you know, you pay 1% or whatever your state, you pay wealth on that, but people don't pay wealth on the shares that they hold. And this is mainly held by the billionaires. And so it's just like, well, so we figured there. There is a system, and it's not socialism. It's not crazy crushing people when you're taking the wealth of the middle class, but it is when you're taking the wealth. And so, you know, even like, I guess one way of putting it is just like, can we just have it be the. Can we just the same? Same? How about the same? Can the school teacher get the same as Elon?
- [84:14]
Sophia
Just proportional tax would be so great. So it's just the same. It's not so hard. And now a word from our sponsors who make this show possible.
- [84:29]
OT Feg Benle
There's nothing more pleasant than the discovery of unexpected beauty in everyday objects. And what's more unexpected than a beautiful toilet? An elegant, sleeked, curved, beautiful toilet. And you see, this toilet is the kohlervale smart toilet in honed black. Its unique shape and color are so stunning that they actually inspired fashion designer and creative director Laura Kim to design a couture dress. Beauty inspires beauty. The sleek, curved, honed black veil, smart toilet from Kohler and the long, flowing black chiffon dress that Kim designed were born from the belief that design can transform how we live and feel. The Veil Smart Toilet, with its bold design, intuitive touchscreen remote control and customizable cleansing features, creates an experience that is far beyond the expected. It can transform your everyday routine into something that is extraordinary. And don't we all deserve extraordinary, like a gorgeous Laura Kim Design dress? And if you don't know Laura Kim, you should Design changes everything. Veal Smart Toilet in Honed Black only from Kohler Discover the Veil Smart Toilet and go behind the scenes of Kohler's partnership with Laura Kim@kohler.com hey friends, let's.
- [85:48]
Sophia
Talk about simplifying our beauty routines. I know we have all been there feeling overwhelmed by 12 step skincare regimens and patterns palettes with 50 eyeshadows. Here's the thing. I don't have time for that and I'm pretty sure you don't either. That's why I am so excited that Merit is sponsoring this podcast. Merit is all about a less is more approach. Their makeup and skincare products are designed to enhance your natural beauty, not cover it up. From their minimalist foundation and concealer all in one to their incredible flush balms, it's like Blush, but better. With their simple products, I can get my whole routine done in under five minutes. If you are looking to simplify your morning, head to Merit Beauty.com and get their signature makeup bag free with your first order. That's MeritBeauty.com you see the world differently.
- [86:40]
Ferris State University Ad
Where others see empty lots. You see blueprints where others sit in lecture halls. Future leaders choose Ferris State University to build something real. Ready to dig in and learn through action, Ferris State gives you the tools, the team and training to unleash your potential with paths to high demand careers and in state tuition for non residents. At Ferris State, students don't just study, they build. They lead. They succeed. Visit ferris. Edu Ferris State University we build Champions.
- [87:09]
OT Feg Benle
Oh whip smarties, do we have the scoop for you. Science so what is it, you ask? It's that Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide.
- [87:21]
Sophia
But before you tell us to clock.
- [87:23]
OT Feg Benle
Out of our shift at the rumor mill, we have proof that this kettle of tea is not only piping hot, but 100% true. So yeah, sometimes it pays to be a little nosy, but it always pays to Discover. Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report. Learn more at discover.com crash Ready for.
- [87:41]
T-Mobile Ad
Another dose of mystery, mind games and psychological intrigue? The Hulu Original Series nine Perfect Strangers starring Nicole Kidman is back for an all new season. This season, a new group of visitors with mysterious connections to each other journey to an exotic healing retreat set high in the Swiss Alps. In this opulent winter wonderland, the group is subjected to a unique vision of therapy that takes them to the very edge of sand. As they peel back the layers in a series of shocking twists and character revelations, the retreat's leader reveals her own complex motives. As the strangers unravel before our eyes, everything is revealed in a visually stunning and intoxicating finale that will leave you breathless. Starring Nicole Kidman and with an all star cast including Christine Baranski, Murray Bartlett, Henry Golding, Annie Murphy, Mark Strong and King Princess, Nine Perfect Strangers is your next must watch drama. The season premiere of Nine Perfect Strangers premieres May 21, streaming on Hulu.
- [88:49]
Sophia
It's actually, it's so funny to me because it makes me think, I love diving into this stuff with you. I'm like, oh my God, we need a meal and a bottle of wine with all of our friends.
- [88:58]
Merit Ad
I need cards.
- [88:59]
Sophia
But, you know, I also realize we're over time, but. So I have to pay you two more compliments, but.
- [89:04]
Merit Ad
Oh, here we have time for compliments.
- [89:06]
Sophia
It really makes me think about when you, you played Barack Obama in the First Lady. Cause I'm like, oh my God. I. Yeah, you just, you have such a wonderful political mind and it's so much fun, I think, to, to dig into these things and ask questions and debate and to do so hopefully, you know, in the spirit of taking care of people. Was it surreal to play the president?
- [89:32]
Merit Ad
Oh, yeah. Now that was super surreal.
- [89:34]
Sophia
Did you get to talk to him?
- [89:35]
Merit Ad
No, I didn't. I tried, but we didn't. Although viol get to Queen Viola should say she did get to speak to Michelle a little bit because they'd had a previous relationship, but it was crazy. And they have in Atlanta this like, you know, fake White House, which, you know. And so, yeah, I'm getting out of the limo and this fake press. It was super, super surreal and terrifying. Scary and thrilling and. Yeah. So, yeah.
- [90:02]
Sophia
Wow, that's so cool. I also unrelated, I, I mean to that show, not to any of this because it's you. I loved Presumed Innocent so much. Yeah, I loved it. And you were so good. And you and Peter Sarsgaard were just so good. And I, I had this moment where I was like, God, I haven't enjoyed disliking someone in a show like this in a long time. It, the tension was so compelling and, and, and the motivation Even though you were supposed to be the foil. Right. The motivation. And, and I could just read not exactly what you were thinking, obviously, but I could watch your thoughts while you were on screen and see the way you detested this person and then made us, the audience second guess. Is he the hero or is he the villain? Is this man correct? Like, oh my God, the cat and mouse of you guys was so, so much fun. Hats off to you. I loved it so much.
- [91:04]
Merit Ad
Thanks so much. I really enjoyed doing it. I mean it was, it's funny because one of the things I did was funny. I was studying politicians and because they, they're so often this two faced thing where on the one side you're like, oh yeah. What you're saying, I agree with. On the other hand you're like, I do not trust you. And, and, and so I was just like saying, what is this thing? Anyway, so I started working on it and I started working on the voice and you know, about like, you know, how annoying and kind of like grating some people's voices while. Anyway, I remember, but I don't think they as a production really knew what I was going to do with the part or like, like it was going to be that kind of like hateable, likable, hateful character. And I remember I did the first scene and I came out and I said, do you mind if I watch a little playback? And I watched it and I went, oh, yeah, he's hateable. And the producer turned to me, oh, no, no, I mean, he's not hateable. He's, you know, we don't want him make. And I was just like, don't worry, this is going to be fun.
- [91:57]
Sophia
You're like, no, it's nice for me. It's, this is what I wanted as an actor.
- [92:01]
Merit Ad
Yeah, exactly. But so much comes from Peter because Peter is just this extraordinary actor to play with and, you know, amazing. Yeah. And it's so, you just, he's so unpredictable. He's so unpredictable. And I, I think I, I, I work well under some level of chaos.
- [92:19]
Sophia
Oh, I love that. Well, what's, what's next for you? I mean, obviously, you know, Handmaid's Tales coming out. You're all doing the press and the things, but as you said, it was over months and months ago for you as an actor. So you're on to the next. Are you working on something now? Have you just wrapped something? Can you tell us even.
- [92:38]
Merit Ad
Oh, yeah, there are a couple of little, you know, what I'm calling pet projects where, you know, Friends of mine who asked me to do little bits for them. So there are a couple of people like that that's coming out. But the main project I'm working on now is called the Miniature Wife, which is this bizario comedy, kind of surreal comedy. And I'm playing, like, the weirdest character I've ever played in my life. This is like, he is so out there. There are many a day I come off going, well, that was insane. So anyway, so that's for Peacock. And then I'm writing, and so, you know, I'm writing and pushing and developing and. And trying to do stuff like that with my brother. And so those are. Those are the main things that keep me off the streets as well as my kids.
- [93:22]
Sophia
Oh, it's fabulous. That's what I want, I think, you know, referencing our. Our earlier sort of segue. Things feel heavy. I want to go to work and laugh. I want to go to work and be stupid and funny and weird. And I'm like, I can't. I don't want. I need a break from the heavy levity and absolutely awkward humor. Feel like such a respite. I love that you're doing that right now.
- [93:47]
Merit Ad
Oh, yeah. Well, that. All of that is coming to screen near you. Yeah.
- [93:51]
Sophia
Well, good. And. And you. You and your brother, you have a production company together. He has a production.
- [93:58]
Merit Ad
That's right.
- [93:58]
Sophia
You do it together.
- [93:59]
Merit Ad
Yeah. So he's got. He's got his production company, and then I have, like, a label under his production company there. Well, this stuff that we do together, I just love working with him. He's kind of like, what I was saying about Lizzie before is that he's someone who just knows how my brain works and gets me writing. And funnily enough, I just before I was two weeks before Christmas, and we were going to do Christmas in Virginia. We have some family out there, and he was going to come join me, and I was like, lucy, I have an idea for this movie. And he was like, oh, great, great, lovely. Why don't you write something down? I was like, no, no, no. I want to shoot a proof of concept. And so let's shoot it over Christmas. We'll have Christmas Day, and then we'll shoot for two days after. And he was like, but we don't have a cast. And I was like, is your daughter coming? Okay, great. So that's one. I'll ask my best friend to come. So he was like, oh, are you serious? But. But he's so game that we went. We went and did It. And we shot, you know, this crazy short over two days after Christmas. Anyway, so that's my. My brother's mentality is just like, how we. We did a TV show together called Max M A X Squad. Check it out on Hulu. It's a wild comedy, and we got all these, like. We got the Backstreet Boys in it. We got. We got a bunch of. Larry King did a little cameo in it, and that just came because he's got the attitude of, like, let's just go up to Larry King and ask him, hey, Larry, would you just give our stuff 5? We wasn't going to his agents when we did the Backstreet Boys. We weren't talking to people's managers. We were literally like, yo, will you come do this? And, you know, with Kevin for the Backstreet Boys, we were like, come on. Well, he was like, well, I can't do right now. You know, I'm going home. We were like, where'd you live? Why don't we come to your house? And so he let us come to his house, and then we gave him a bottle, and he smashes it over my head. You know, it's. Anyway, so working with Luti is just like. It's a whirlwind. And like I said, I work pretty well in some chaos.
- [95:47]
Sophia
Well, I love that you guys jump in and. And just make it happen, because I think we need permission to do that. Especially in this business where it's like, you've got to call so and so, and then they'll call, and you're like, what? You're like, don't you know that we're all just like, a bunch of circus performers? What are you doing? But I also think it's so cool that you guys have, like, such a special mandate, because knowing, you know, as. Again, as I was prepping, you know, reading up on how you very intentionally hire black department heads, from makeup to locations to producing to writing, it's, like, to expand our world, not just on camera, but behind it, to make sure people get to see themselves, to make sure their experiences are represented. Like, the whole thing is so important, and it's. I don't know. I love that you're, like, chasing Larry King down and that you're also making shit happen for your whole crew. It's very, very awesome.
- [96:44]
Merit Ad
Thanks a lot. Yeah. I mean, just to say about that, just real quick, though, because it's interesting because, like, DEI and all that is in the news. I mean, I can't speak specifically for Luki, but For me, like, when I was making my show show, I just wanted to make sure we interviewed the black, you know, head of costume. We. That. That. That they got a fair chance, that when we interviewed actors, that we were interviewing some actors with some disabilities. Because I think so often what happens is, like, these talented people aren't getting in the room. So it's not about giving someone who's not talented a job. It's like kind of like what you were saying before. Can we make it fair? Because you oligarchs are going, oh, yeah, my nephew has. Has a. He's just graduated, but you give him a. Give him a shot at something. So you have your pipelines of getting people in. Can we just make it fair so this person who doesn't have some connection in the industry also gets to be interviewed. And through that process, we met some amazing, you know, men and females and people with disabilities and all sorts that just were extraordinary but just were never given the chance to shine.
- [97:46]
Sophia
Yeah, I think it's really cool. To your point, all you're doing is expanding, you know, you're expanding the pool.
- [97:54]
Merit Ad
Exactly.
- [97:55]
Sophia
And it's wonderful.
- [97:56]
Merit Ad
Yeah.
- [97:56]
Sophia
I'm gonna ask you my last question.
- [97:58]
Merit Ad
Okay.
- [97:59]
Sophia
Obviously, you have a thousand irons in the fire right now, and as you mentioned, your dad and, you know, your family is all over the place, and it's. It's so many spinning plates, but you love the chaos. I think all of us circus kids do what. Whether it's personal or professional, or maybe it's a mix of both.
- [98:18]
Merit Ad
Growth.
- [98:19]
Sophia
What feels like your work in progress when you look out at the year ahead.
- [98:24]
Merit Ad
Well, now. Sorry, break it down for a minute. What do you mean, my work in progress?
- [98:28]
Sophia
Just like, I like to know what feels like something that guests are noodling on or working on. Whether, you know, somebody recently shared some really deep shit about what they're going through in therapy. You know, someone was like, I'm gonna get this movie made this year. You know, we've got friends trying to write novels. It's like, I. I guess I just always wonder when people are smart and creative and also have families and are doing the thing we're all trying to do, which is make it all happen. Like, what. What's that central thing that you feel like you're working on and tinkering. And.
- [99:09]
Merit Ad
The thing that I'm thinking about most today, and a lot. Lot is. Can't say without getting too emotional, which is. Which is basically just being a great father. Like. And I'm trying to figure out how do I give the best lift off to these incredible creatures that I. For now, I'm looking after because at some point, hopefully if I do a good job, they'll become adults and be free in the world and managing that with the demands of all the things that we all know, you know, like paying the bills and doing your own art and having your own life and being healthy and all the things that we're supposed to be doing. Yeah, but, you know, they're so vulnerable. It's complicated, you know, how best to water these gardens. And so, you know, being patient. I think patience is one of. One of the things I struggle with, you know, and, yeah, there's no rushing that process. You just have to go through the middle.
- [100:11]
Sophia
Yeah, it's beautiful. It's a pretty interesting thing. You know, when you talk about their ages, I think about how close, you know, the kids in my life are when you love to communicate and you love complexity and a deep conversation to figure out how to communicate really well with a tiny little brain that is developing and learning but doesn't have all the language. Language yet. It's. It's like a whole other kind of creativity.
- [100:40]
Merit Ad
Yes. And also for me, it's kind of like, you know, my head, you know, I don't know where they call it add, whatever. My head runs. And I'm thinking about a bunch of thinking, like, I'm thinking about free will and I'm thinking about, you know, market situations and AI, and I'm thinking about these four writing projects I'm developing. And then you, you know, and then my, you know, my daughter wants to throw the ball. Whatever the thing is, is just scribble on something. Or. She wants me to chase her, but she doesn't want me to chase her. She wants me to hold her and me run, you know, and. And it's like you just have to be there doing that thing and to give them the most. It's to be present. And I'm so tempted. I want to put a podcast in my ear while we're doing the. Because it's like my brain needs this other things going on. And it's like, it's quite hard for me to kind of let go and just be like, okay, just present. Like, we are running, we are rolling. And sure, five, ten minutes is crime, but just figuring out that hour, that two hours, that, yeah. That presence with them. And like you say, because they can't communicate on the breadth of bandwidth that we can. And so we just have to go analog and yeah, it's Incredible. Incredible.
- [101:58]
Sophia
It's incredible. Oh, well, this has just been such a joy.
- [102:02]
Merit Ad
Yeah, we have to do that again.
- [102:03]
Sophia
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, best of luck with the show coming soon. And I mean, gosh, just all of it. It's really, really exciting. And yeah, we'll have to dive back into some of the nerdy policy processing soon.
- [102:20]
Merit Ad
I'm down for it.
- [102:23]
Sophia
All right, my dear. Thank you for today.
- [102:25]
Merit Ad
Yeah, thank you.
- [102:41]
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- [102:47]
Sophia
The Kohler Veil Smart Toilet in Honed Black actually inspired a creative director and fashion design designer Laura Kim to create a stunning black chiffon dress.
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OT Feg Benle
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Sophia
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Ryan Seacrest
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Merit Ad
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T-Mobile Ad
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