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- [00:00]
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- [00:30]
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- [00:36]
Sophia Bush
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- [01:17]
Better Man Ad
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- [01:56]
Not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. Use as directed. Individual results may vary.
- [02:01]
Sophia Bush
Hi everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome back to Work in Progress. Whip Smarties. This week we are joined by an incredible performer and advocate who is one of the most wonderful people to run into in any room and has some of the most exceptional taste in the material she chooses to work on. She has been nominated for Best Supporting Actress in a Drama Series for the Critics Choice Awards, Outstanding Supporting Actress in a Drama Series for the NAACP Awards and has won back to back Outstanding Drama Ensemble Awards at the SAG Awards all for her Incredible work as BETH PEARSON On NBC's series this is Us. She has worked across Broadway, film, television, and she is back on screen in Shondaland's brand new show, the Residence. She's here today to talk about what it's like to work in the world of Shonda alongside Uzo Aduba and what it's like to make a show revolving around a murder mystery in the White House. We will touch on some of her lessons about following your passion, trusting your calling, and finding your voice as an artist. And I'm excited to ask her about what she thinks. Present day Susan would have to say to nine year old Susan. Let's dive in. Susan, I'm so, so happy to have you on the show today. How are you?
- [03:52]
Susan Kelechi Watson
I am good. How are you?
- [03:54]
Sophia Bush
I'm great. You are one of those people to begin, that I have to say in, in the last, I mean, I don't know what time really is. You know, post pre lockdown, everything's kind of melting, right? But it feels like five years, which means maybe it's been 10. But like since you and I have been running into each other at things, anytime I see you in a room, I'm always like, oh, so sweet.
- [04:19]
Susan Kelechi Watson
I love that. Thank you.
- [04:22]
Sophia Bush
You're, you're a beautiful talent, but you're such a genuine human and it was really fun, you know, having grown up with some of the folks that you did. This is us with, to feel very familial with some of you and then get to meet so many more of you. Like just seeing y'all in rooms having that experience, you know, getting, getting your flowers, like giving everybody a family to come home to on tv. I just, I loved it. So. Thank you. Yeah, I'm just thrilled to be with you today.
- [04:52]
Susan Kelechi Watson
Yeah, me too. This is so lovely. And I love, like you said, you know, you do these shows and you do all these circuits and you know what it is, right? And you're meeting people as you go and you're trying to like make connections or hope for connections and you want to be sort of as genuine as possible and meet people who are, you know, sort of like minded and things like that. And sometimes the business feels like the thing that connects us all. But it's really lovely when we get like sit and really know each other as, as people and know a little bit more about one another. So I just, I love this. I'm so happy to be here and just explore for a bit, you know.
- [05:31]
Sophia Bush
Yeah, me too. And I, I am so absolutely in love with New show and I have a million things I want to ask you about it. But before we, before we jump into present, I like to go back with people because I think, you know, as a, as an interviewer, I kind of get to be in the role of audience too. Right. And like I sit across from people who are at these beautiful crossroads who are doing these big amazing projects, who have crazy stories. And I like to think about before you were, you know, a household name or on a billboard, who were you? And, and I wonder if the adult woman that you are today, like you got to go to the, the park. We were both talking about loving outside of New York earlier and run into yourself at 9 or 10, like if you got to be face to face with that, that little version of you, do you think you'd see things about who you are today in her, or do you think her mind would just be totally blown at what your life is as a grown up?
- [06:38]
Susan Kelechi Watson
You know, I, you know, she had big dreams.
- [06:41]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [06:41]
Susan Kelechi Watson
You know, that, that, that 10 year old I think had big dreams. And it's funny you say that because I think I thought about that the other day. If, if, if I would think that this is where I would be or would it look different or how, you know, would I find this? Would it feel like the success I thought that looked like that's as a young person, you know what I mean? Like in those, in that age range. Because when you. I've always wanted to act, so, you know, I think I always thought of. And back then it was like a big deal if I would have gotten like a commercial or like if I was a voice on a cartoon or like, you know, just anything that would kind of put me in that space, in that realm and all that kind of stuff. And, and so I think about what I've had the, the good fortune to do at this time and, and I think one of the biggest things that changes for me is probably just the perspective on it, you know. Yeah. I think there's something like when you're younger, you don't understand the work that goes into what it takes to do those things that you dream about. We don't understand what that journey is really going to be. And some part of that is fortunate because maybe a lot of us wouldn't sign up for it if we knew all of the bumps and bruises and, you know, hills and valleys and all the things. But I guess my main hope is that yes, she would be proud of what we've done together because so much of it for me is based on what young me wanted, you know what I mean? So much of what I'm fulfilling now is based on what I really wanted back then. So there's a lot of connection there. It's not like, you know, I always thought I was going to be a doctor and then suddenly, and then, you know, if I think a lot of that. But it's connected to who I am as an artist, but also I think as a person, I, I see similarities and I see differences. I definitely see the side of me that was, you know, very, very sort of forward presenting and very passionate and all of those things. And the side of me that wanted to people please or the side of me that wanted to be, to maybe be liked or accepted and all of those things. And I think a lot, some of, a lot of those things have gone away, which is a great thing that happens as you get older. You're like, oh, I don't care. But I also think that the passion and wanting to take space in the world is still there. And so I feel like we would still have that very much in common. It's funny, as we're saying this, I'm seeing myself on a swing set with my younger. It's all getting very nostalgic and very poetic and metaphorical in my mind as we talk about it. But it is a beautiful thing to be able to think of and think like I honored a lot of the things that I wanted to be even as I was a child.
- [10:02]
Sophia Bush
Totally. Well, and there's something, there's something I like about pondering this with people because, you know, I think part of our job as artists is to be willing to be vulnerable in the human condition, right? To take failures and fears as well as, you know, love stories and all the, all the good things. But I think when you do the work to kind of dig in so often you, you know, you get into your adulthood and you start to figure out the younger selves you carry with you, and especially the younger selves you kind of reparent or you. You give wisdom to about something scary or hard that happened to you that you didn't have then, you know, And I like also being able to have that visualization, that swing set moment for the, for the joyful stuff, for like the really good things, you know, the points of pride that you would probably share with your younger self and say, this thing you've dreamt of, it's going to happen. You know, it'll look different, but it's going to happen.
- [11:07]
Susan Kelechi Watson
Right?
- [11:08]
Sophia Bush
That's really special. Did you. When you talk about how you're honoring that younger version of yourself, did you. Did you always know that you wanted to be this kind of artist, that you wanted to be a performer? Because I know you went to Howard and got your MFA at nyu. You know, you were. You were pursuing the arts even through your student years. But did you know as a little kid that you wanted to do this?
- [11:33]
Susan Kelechi Watson
Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I knew from the time I was three that I wanted to do it. Three? Yeah. Yeah. From the time I was three, yeah. Like, I can remember, like, being on my bed. I had a little talk with God and was like, what do you want to be? And I was like, I want to be an entertainer. And I remember just banging my legs against the bed and being like, yeah. I was like, well, that's what you'll be. And I was like, great. And then I remember, like, making these little, like, what I feel like was the first reality television. Applause. Is, sir, applause here. Because I would walk out of my. My brother and I. My younger brother and I shared a bedroom in Brooklyn, right? My two older brothers shared another bedroom. And I remember walking out of that bedroom and going into the living room, and family was in the living room, okay? And whatever. What they were talking about, whatever was happening in that living room, they don't know, but I'm walking into it as, like, this version of myself that's being filmed, okay? And whatever's happening in this living room is the scene. And I'm walking in, and I'd have the scene with them, whatever it was, and I'd do my little thing and make whatever that reality was into something. Go back into my room and have a confessional and talk to an imaginary camera and be like, did you see what just happened with my brother? Like, what do you think? That. That. And I would have a whole dialogue about it.
- [13:08]
Sophia Bush
Oh, my God.
- [13:08]
Susan Kelechi Watson
And I did this all the time. You know, this is something I remember. Like, I did this often.
- [13:13]
Sophia Bush
It's like, you were starring in the show. You were producing the show. You were your own camera operator. You were writing the show, was leading.
- [13:22]
Susan Kelechi Watson
People towards certain conversations, and, you know, just, like, ridiculous, right? And. And I just. Anything that I could do to try to do, you know, something in that field. I wasn't in art school. I wasn't doing any of that stuff. So anything that kind of. That kind of led me there was. Was what I was doing.
- [13:40]
Sophia Bush
So then what was the. What was the kind of collegiate process for you? Like, you know, going after an MFA and then graduating and starting, you know, pounding the pavement as we do, like, going in during pilot season, all the things.
- [13:53]
Susan Kelechi Watson
What.
- [13:54]
Sophia Bush
What. What did that kind of period look like for you?
- [13:57]
Susan Kelechi Watson
It was not as glorious as I thought it would be. You know, I got out of school, and I remember thinking, I want to go straight into a Spike Lee film, or I want to, you know, be in the next, you know, whatever was big. And I felt like, for me, it started to the reality hit of, like, being called in or not being called into auditions. It's. It's funny. I just recently did a play at the Lincoln center called Blood Quilt, and Daniel Swee is the casting director over there. And I asked him if he remembered, and thank God he didn't remember. One of my first things I did out of school was bust into an audition that I was not invited to that Daniel was running, but I thought I was right for it, so I went. And I was like, obviously, this is an oversight. And he took me aside, and he was like, listen, I. You know, I can dig it. You're, like, passionate about this. He was like, but you cannot. I forget what they'd even call it. Like, you cannot just, I don't know, bust into an audition. That's it. You can't crash the audition. And not that I busted into somebody's room on the other, but, like, I came into the waiting room, like, hit.
- [15:20]
Sophia Bush
The sign in sheet. Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, you're like a polite wedding crasher. I'm going to wait my turn, but I need a turn.
- [15:30]
Susan Kelechi Watson
I do get a turn, right? Yeah. And so he was like, no. Like, there's people, like, at certain. Like, he was like, no, you are not called in. So there's a part of me, sometimes I think about that version of me, and I'm like, oh, I missed that. Because one thing that the business does, it really can humble you in a way that I found was good for me. It helped me kind of hone how to use my passion and how to, like, focus and how to build these relationships so that I wasn't just doing, like, you know, the. I wasn't just being the crasher. You know what I mean? I was now sort of understanding more of what the protocols are, and not necessarily that I'm gonna say, all right, now let me go just by the rules. But I think I had to understand a lot more about the business and what we're in and. And, yeah. In order to then be my authentic self in it. I think a lot of me just was you know, coming from my background by, you know, my cultural background, from the things that I learned in school and all the things, you just go for it. And I had to really learn what that process was and, and it wasn't easy. Yeah, you pound the pavement, you grind, you do all the things. And look, somebody might look at my journey and be like, well, that was easier than mine. And you know, it's, it just depends on where you were you were at in your own journey. But for me, my expectation for what I was looking for right out of school was, was high and I had to learn that, oh, my path isn't like an instant one. It's, it's, there is definitely more of a journey. I didn't walk into a room and people necessarily went, she's a star. You know what I mean? I didn't have that experience of it, you know. Now, now for the, you know, in, in more recent years, the kinds of reactions that I wanted when I walked into it, into an audition room are much different than I had in the past. You know what I mean? Or getting the offer, just having a meeting with a director, all these things have changed, you know, so everything is so very different than what was. But it feels much more earned than instant.
- [18:00]
Sophia Bush
Yes. You know, they, they, they say it takes 10 years to become an overnight success.
- [18:05]
Susan Kelechi Watson
There you go. And you know what's funny? I, I remember going by, by that marker and being like, okay, it's 10 years. Where is like, literally I was so thoughtful about this stuff and I, and I study the business. I like, I, I tend to look at things, but it becomes like a study of those things, you know, like, I'm not just reading about, like reading the trades. I kind of study like, oh, look at the patterns and things and how people's careers go and you know, what led to this and why, you know, why did they choose that film over this? That's the producer mind in me is, is working at the same time. And so there is something to Even things like 10 years to make a start that I, I held on to those things. And I would watch people's trajectory and I would see like who really dropped in at their 10 year mark, who like did that, who sort of is somebody that I can kind of track and see how they created a success for themselves just so that I always had some kind of model to go by, you know.
- [19:13]
Sophia Bush
And now a word from our sponsors who make this show possible.
- [19:20]
Better Man Ad
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- [20:00]
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- [20:12]
Sophia Bush
When you talk about that, when you talk about the way that you study things like what's some of the inside baseball that you've seen? What, what do you look for? Because I think so many. I know I'm having the feeling, but I know people listening are like, what do you mean? Say more.
- [20:31]
Susan Kelechi Watson
Maybe I could give an example of if there is an actor who is maybe early on in their career. And, and you see. Okay, no, this is something that I'm looking at now. Let me give you something I'm looking at now. So people who, I look at people who sort of created roles for themselves and because that's a lane that I am really starting to get into now and, or re. Explore now because of something I thought about a lot in the past but is really looking to re. Explore now.
- [21:12]
Sophia Bush
Okay.
- [21:13]
Susan Kelechi Watson
And have created these, these lanes for themselves. And I watch how they created the work for themselves and then they, and through that they gained their own sort of audience and their own sort of following. And this isn't like, and I'm not speaking like directly to like influencers or things like that. I'm talking about people who like created shows for themselves or created characters for themselves and, and to that kind of thing. And then I watch as like, okay, so now they have their following. They have the thing that they created that in turn inspired Hollywood to come knocking at their door and say, okay, how can we partner here? Then you look at, did that partnership create success? Were they able to remain authentic to their brand within that partnership, that partnership? Once that thing happened, what did that spawn as the next thing? And whether their next project was successful or not? Did their fan base stick with them? Did the people stick? Because they, they, they like whatever it is they're bringing, they want to be along for that ride. Does that person stay in one box. Do they start to branch out into other things? And do they start to work with other directors and other people so that they have their brand plus, you know, they can be a part of this movie and a part of that franchise? And, you know, so I just watch how people kind of build, but also make opportunities for themselves. So sometimes you'll have people who are like, huge successes now, but if you trace back, it's because they invested in themselves. They said, you know, I want to do this project, and if I hadn't done that, nobody would have hired me.
- [22:46]
Sophia Bush
Yes.
- [22:46]
Susan Kelechi Watson
And you can't even imagine that now. Like, nobody. You know what I mean? You're huge. You know what I mean? But they started with the investment in themselves and, and the belief and the courage to put. To put those types of projects out into the world. And, you know, there's. There's all types of. People can reject it. People can save me. Things about, you know, anything can happen. But also, I. I think they invested in that. No, they'll find their audience. They will find the people that are looking for what they're looking to give. So that's something that I mean by studying, like, I'll look at how. How those things, how those journeys are created.
- [23:28]
Sophia Bush
I love that. Because what I'm hearing you say is whatever the specific example is, what you're doing is identifying the courage it takes to make something, how someone commits to that vision, and then, like, what that might spark in you when you see someone do something. I think the beautiful thing about being excited for other people instead of envious is you watch them do something and then you go, oh, my God, if they did that, what if I could do this thing I've been thinking about?
- [24:03]
Susan Kelechi Watson
That's right. That's right. I think it's something so wonderful about exactly what you said. Envy is such a wasted emotion. I wish people would get that, like, imprinted into their spirit. It is a waste of time. Yeah. Look at that person and get. And the flip side of it is, get inspired by it. Hope that they do more. Hope that it's something that ignites something in you that. That makes you want to be better, do better. Lights a fire that says, oh, it's okay for me to do that. You know, hope that you keep having sparks of beautiful light like that around you so that you're always in the realm of creativity. You're always in the realm of something beautiful happening. Because when you're in a realm where you can touch it, that means you can be it. You know, and sometimes we just need that reinforcement. We already are it, but you need the reinforcement to know that you can be it. You know, you can. You are, you know, a human. But when you become, like, a human being, a human doing something, it's different when you can, like, start to be it, because B is more active. It's an action, you know, And. And I. My. My hope is that in anybody watching this, that if they do feel that envy in any way, just to. To know that, you know, it's wasted time sitting there, because there is something in you that is so incredibly unique. Everybody has the thing that nobody else has. Everybody has it, you know, so just find yours. I used to tell people I coached for a while when. When things were kind of still sort of in the. In with acting, and, you know, when things slow down and things get a little still, I would, like, coach. And one of the things I used to say to folks is, like, what's your superpower? And I would help them identify it so that, you know, when you walk into the room, you have one and just lean into that thing, you know, and. Because that'll give you a certain confidence, you know, a confidence to kind of. And when you can hold that with you, when you walk into spaces, you will. I. I feel like any of that envy or jealousy and stuff, you know, begins to subside because, you know, you have something to add. You bring something valuable to the table just by being you. It's just your own authentic you.
- [26:33]
Sophia Bush
Oh, I love that. And it. It's kind of a recalibration, right? Instead of seeing yourself in competition as winning or losing, as more than or less than to say, I am also.
- [26:47]
Susan Kelechi Watson
Yes. Yes.
- [26:48]
Sophia Bush
I mean, what a shift.
- [26:50]
Susan Kelechi Watson
What a shift. And who's keeping score anyway? Like, why are you keeping score? It's like, really, the thing is, everything happens at different times for everyone. And I find it so much more valuable to really get still and sort of figure out where you can invest in yourself rather than invest time tracking other people to sort of be jealous about what they're doing, you know? You know what I'm saying? Like, I. I've sort of embraced a practice of, like, I'm just gonna look straight up at my own life, just. Just what I've got, and just pick out the things to be grateful for. And just what I have, I'm not looking at. No. Just what do I have that I can be incredibly grateful for in this moment? Tomorrow it'll be in that moment. The next day, it'll be in that moment. But and really, and really get happy and really like invest in getting excited about your life. Like practice actually getting excited. There's, there is something exciting to just like, you know, I'm going to meet my friend today. I love being with that friend, you know, But I have like this, you know, this coffee. I'm going to make this thing, this pancake that I saw that they do. I'm like, like the gram, it's like a two ingredient pan going to make it. You know what I mean? Like there's an investment in the little things and get excited about the little things. And once you start to see all the little things in your life that you can be excited about, I think that's such a better, a better focus than, than looking at other people. Because we can also go by the, the adage of you never know what somebody's going through anyway. You don't know what everybody. You don't know that you really want that, you know. You know, nobody knows. Yeah. And God forbid you, you, you, you know, you don't ever want to also put negative energy out toward people. You want people to thrive. You want people to, you know, to do well. I think it's a reflection on all of us. I just, I, I don't see us so much as individuals. We're all a part of this big collective, you know, and everybody has their part to play in the collective. So if somebody's playing their instrument really well, that doesn't mean you need their instrument. It means you need to start tuning up yours, get your rehearsal on, get your stuff together and get your instrument popping because we need you in the band. You know what I'm saying?
- [29:19]
Sophia Bush
Yes.
- [29:19]
Susan Kelechi Watson
Somebody is on the other side. I'll never forget, it was told to me this way. Someone is always waiting on the other side of your obedience. So the minute you say yes to the things that you are being called to, things that you feel like in your purpose are part of your journey, the minute you say yes and you start really, you know, pursuing and achieving, there's somebody else waiting on the other side to see that, to inspire their part of the journey, their leg of it, you know. And so you don't even realize, we don't even realize as human beings the power there is. And really stepping into where, where you're being called to be. It's so powerful. It resonates for everybody.
- [30:00]
Sophia Bush
Yeah, well, because it has that ripple effect.
- [30:03]
Susan Kelechi Watson
It does.
- [30:04]
Sophia Bush
And now a word from our wonderful sponsors.
- [30:09]
Better Man Ad
Men, if you're ready to reclaim your edge Listen up. I used to be held back by constant bathroom trips with multiple wake ups during my sleep and looking for restrooms whenever I was out. Then I discovered Better Man. After just two months, I started experiencing fewer trips to the bathroom, less urge to go, and I even slept through some nights. I feel a noticeable boost in my overall well being, even sexual stamina. It gives me the freedom and confidence to live life on my terms. Better man is clinically tested and trusted by thousands of men over 25 years. Ready to take back control. Go to be better now.com to order your supply today. That's be better now dot com.
- [30:49]
These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. Use as directed. Individual results may vary.
- [31:01]
Sophia Bush
You know, I. It's like the cliche is a cliche, right? It's a phrase because it's so universally true that hindsight is 20 20. Like you look back and you go, oh my God. It all makes sense. The stress and the hardship thing that I thought went wrong, but really it was going right for me. Like, is it, is it a wild thing to now through the journey of your career, you know, all the work that goes into the overnight success moment. Is it wild to look back from this knowing at how this is us began for you, how Beth began for you? Did. Did you know what it meant or. Or were you sort of on the ride and couldn't believe where it went? Like, what does it look like kind of in the rear view now?
- [31:49]
Susan Kelechi Watson
In the moment I knew what it meant to take bringing this character to life in a very three dimensional way. I knew the importance of that. That's what I knew in the moment. I was like, look, you know, we have this woman on screen that I have an opportunity to really represent the every woman. You know, in representing the every woman, she comes in my package, which is a black woman. So I have the opportunity to show who I know us to be, you know, and I took that very seriously and not seriously in a way where I was walking around like I got to be. No, no, no. I just knew what that was. And that went into any scene that I did or any time, you know, Sterling and I played that. There was the resonance of we have to be true to who we know these people are in the world. We have to be really true to that so people understand and get a new perspective and a deeper perspective, you know. So to some people I was preaching to the choir and to some people it was a very new Experience for them.
- [33:14]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [33:14]
Susan Kelechi Watson
As an audience member. But. But that. That I knew in the moment that I wanted to be a woman that women identified with. And so she's a very. She's very much a. A compilation of so many different women in my life that I've experienced. Beth is. In hindsight, I. She is really. I, you know, I hear all the time the effect of that she had on people. I hear about it all the time. I don't know if I'll ever truly wrap my. My brain around that. I don't. I don't know, and I don't. I'm not sure that it's necessarily for me to. To wrap my brain around. I think I can only be grateful that. That it landed, you know what I mean? With. With people. And. And I. Grateful that people identified with who she is. But I didn't watch her in the same way as an actor. When I'm watching my work, I'm watching for technical things. I'm watching how do I get better? You know what it is? You know what I'm saying? So, you know, you have to allow for it to be for your audience, you know, and for them to. After a while, it's there. She's theirs. She's not really mine anymore.
- [34:30]
Sophia Bush
Well, because in a way, you know, I think about. It's like a seesaw to me in my brain. That's what. That's what comes. Like, I think about the swing set, but then I think about the seesaw. We're just on the playground today.
- [34:42]
Susan Kelechi Watson
Yeah, for sure.
- [34:43]
Sophia Bush
And like, you bring all these women, you know, and their experiences into the room with you, and especially the experiences of women, you know, you haven't seen on camera into the room with you. It's the privilege of being, I think, a woman and an actor, and it's so compounded and so. So much exponentially larger as an audience member and a fan, to watch you do this as a black woman and as a black woman on a show like this, and as a black woman on a show like this, married to Sterling K. Brown's character on a show like this, inside of the world of the show like this, like, I just see the multiplication table. And interestingly, it must be the most personal thing for you, and all these women, you know, you carry in the room with you as Beth, and then the minute Beth goes out in the world exactly as you're saying she represents, I would imagine, that many women and that many stories and that many family histories for everyone who watches her and sees themselves or someone they love in her. And it's like in that way, it's almost like the multiplication table happens out in the world.
- [35:55]
Susan Kelechi Watson
Exactly. That's right.
- [35:57]
Sophia Bush
And you know, it keeps going, but you can't possibly know how big it is because you're not on that side of the seesaw.
- [36:02]
Susan Kelechi Watson
That's right.
- [36:03]
Sophia Bush
But it's like I remember conversations I had with my best friend Nia when the show was on and she, you know, you guys started airing and I was working on a show in Chicago and she'd come visit me from Detroit, and we were opening a business in Detroit. We opened a beautiful intersectional hair salon together. Because we met in our 20s and we'd go to award shows and we couldn't get our hair done together. And we were like, well, the beauty industry is racist and this is bullshit.
- [36:30]
Susan Kelechi Watson
Right, Right.
- [36:31]
Sophia Bush
And you know, in our 20s we complained about it. And then in our 30s we were like, oh, well, maybe we'll come up with a way to fix it. And I remember, like, sitting in the apartment one night, like, taking her braids out on the couch watching you guys, and she was like, beth Pearson, better speak on it. And we were just laughing and we were like, it, it tickled me as a woman who loves this, like, powerful, amazing black woman, to see her be so tickled by you. And then like, we're sitting in this moment, like, taking her braids out and then talking about how amazing it is to see you on this big network show as this woman with her natural hair, like, hit us and all around us and in our business and in our friendship and like, we were just two girls in Chicago watching your show and you didn't know either one of us then.
- [37:22]
Susan Kelechi Watson
Oh, isn't that something? It's so amazing the power of what it means to like, come into a living room for people, you know, daily. We know what that is. We, we know. You know, I, I, I can't name how many shows growing up that you, you know, I, there are certain series, like when I re watch them from growing up, like, you know, I get, I get teary eyed at the end because I feel like I grew up with these people, you know, like they were in my, my house and, you know, and so to be able to do that, if, even if it's from anything to seeing a professional woman, seeing a woman be, you know, more than a mother and a wife and try to find her own way in the world or even down to the hair, like, I remember when I started the show, there wasn't a Ton of doing natural hair on TV happening at that time. And I remember it being a huge topic of conversation. But it was one of those things, like, I mentioned that I thought, well, in my desire to keep her as authentic as I can imagine, one of the things with black women, you gonna see the hair switch up. Like, that's just a part of the. If we're doing this authentically, this has to be kind of a part of this ride. And so it was definitely intentional on my behalf, but it wasn't so thoughtful. I just thought, like, oh, you know, what part of the authenticity is going to be her changing up her hair? Like, that just has to be there. You know what I mean? So it wasn't like this major, but I understood the effect that it did have for those watching it, because I can't imagine either, like, if I was, you know, like, on the other side of that, I'd been like, wait, they don't let us do that. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, But I was so grateful to be in a space that that. That type of. Again, authentic journey was. Was welcomed. And nobody contested it. Nobody said, oh, you know, she needs to. Nobody said anything. Nobody said. So as long as nobody said no. I just kept saying okay. And every week, okay. And then somebody told me that Dan one time was in the editing room because, you know, she was really switching it up. And. And. And I remember one time, Dan was in the editing room, and somebody told me that Dan was like, oh, I can't wait to see what Beth's hair is doing this week.
- [39:49]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [39:49]
Susan Kelechi Watson
And this is Dan Fogelman, who created the show for everybody who's listening. It's, you know, who's now working with Sterling on Paradise. Just a really powerful showrunner and creator has given us so, so much amazing work. And. And dan was just 100% down with it. So that it also helps when the environment isn't fighting you to do the thing that you feel best advocates for your. For your character. Yeah.
- [40:18]
Sophia Bush
And it's interesting, right? Like, I know a lot of people make a lot of money on the Internet. Making it seem like how we allow people to be fully themselves or fully considered is too much effort for society instead of awesome.
- [40:36]
Susan Kelechi Watson
Right.
- [40:36]
Sophia Bush
And it's like, I, like, I love the way you're talking about it, because on the one hand, it's just authentic. It's just who this woman is. It's who so many women, you know, are. It's actually not rocket science for the production. It's not hard on Anybody. But what it is when it's just allowed to be part of the daily journey of someone and be simply. That is so transformative for people who see it, who've never gotten to see it.
- [41:01]
Susan Kelechi Watson
That's right.
- [41:01]
Sophia Bush
So it's like. It's not rocket science, but it is major in terms of what it becomes on screen.
- [41:09]
Susan Kelechi Watson
I agree. Sorry.
- [41:10]
Sophia Bush
I just love that you were in an environment where it got to be both. It got to be the most casual, obvious thing so that it could go out in the world and be powerful.
- [41:20]
Susan Kelechi Watson
Yeah. Yeah. I remember being in front of. We were doing a panel with the people, with journalists from the Golden Globes, and I remember asking, has anyone in the room seen a couple like Randall and Beth, like a black couple, the way that we were being. And in that Hope panel, which was at least maybe about how many people were in that room? Maybe 12 to 15 or something, but from all over the world, there's just one person raised their hand, and I was like, you know, so it was something. Like I said, it's something that. For some people, it's like, yeah, totally. We get. We get this. And for some people, it's like, oh, wow, this is. So. There's there. That's the power of. Of what we get to do and.
- [42:08]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [42:09]
Susan Kelechi Watson
And the medium we get to use to do it, because it can just. It's in your home. You turn on the tv. It's there.
- [42:14]
Sophia Bush
Yeah. It's beautiful. And you and Sterling did. God, I just. I love watching you both work as actors. You know, I think about on that show, and I think about your new show and his new show that you just mentioned. Like, I love watching y'all, but the. The obvious bond and affection and. And safety you two had together as performers, like, it just radiated from the screen. I imagine it's. It's the most special thing to get to make something like that at work with your friend. And it's got to be hard when it's time to go, right? Like, is it bittersweet to. To watch paradise now and be like, God, he's so good, but I miss him.
- [42:59]
Susan Kelechi Watson
You know, we got to visit each other. It's so funny. I was shooting on one line, he was shooting across the street on the other.
- [43:05]
Sophia Bush
No.
- [43:06]
Susan Kelechi Watson
And so. Yeah, for sure. So I went over there one time, I think when I was having lunch or something, or we tried to. Or maybe I had just finished whatever it was, I went over. And the amazing thing is that so many people who shot on this is us, they rehired the same crew. They rehired the same directors. Yeah, they were hired. You know, hair and makeup. You know, all those people were there.
- [43:32]
Sophia Bush
Cool.
- [43:33]
Susan Kelechi Watson
Of course. Sterling. Of course. And. Yeah, Dan. And. And at the time, John. John and Glenn were directing. Who? And they directed John Renko and Glenn Ficara. They directed our first episode of this Is Us. So they were essentially the ones that got me hired onto this Is Us because they were. They were the. The first directors that I had auditioned for and they brought me back into the, you know, the final, the test and all of that. But they, they are fantastic directors. And so it was just a whole reunion.
- [44:12]
Sophia Bush
Oh, that's so sweet.
- [44:13]
Susan Kelechi Watson
It really was just like the best reunion. Yeah, yeah, it was great.
- [44:19]
Sophia Bush
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- [45:11]
Susan Kelechi Watson
Well.
- [45:11]
Sophia Bush
And it's not lost on me that you went from. And I love that the family continues. Right? Like the family moves into this other space. But you went from a big, you know, familial, well oiled machine into Shondaland.
- [45:25]
Susan Kelechi Watson
Right?
- [45:26]
Sophia Bush
Like Susan, the residence is so good. It is so good. I loved the script when I read it. I. I am so in love with the show and the cast and the pacing and the music and it's like, it feels like a play. And, and, and like what I wanted Clue to be, but never was no shade to anybody who made that movie back in the day. Like, oh, my God, it's. It's Poirot. It's all these amazing, juicy stories and you all are so good. Like, how did this happen? Were you. Were you freaked out about, like, the size of the Shonda world? Did you know anybody before? Like, tell me, tell me how the residents came to be.
- [46:11]
Susan Kelechi Watson
You know, I remember my agent told me about it. He first told me about it in sort of like, our group meeting with. With everyone that my whole team, you know, and that was one of the projects that they had discussed. And then I remember him coming back to it, and I was in London at the time doing a play at the Old Vic, and. And they said, yeah, you know, look, they're looking at you, you know, for this role of Jasmine, so give it a read and let us know what you think. And I called them back within. Within 10 minutes. Because I looked at it right away. You know what I mean? Like, and I called back within 10 minutes. I got to, like, page 15. And I was like, yep, sign me up, whatever. And then I came back to New York a month later, because I remember I traveled. I went to South Africa for the first time. I did, like, a whole thing. And I came back and. And they were like, yeah, they want to set up this meeting with you. And so I met with Paul. Paul William Davies, who's the amazing writer who. Just. Extraordinary writer. He wrote all eight episodes. And I met with Betsy Beers, the fabulous Betsy Beers. Well, actually, Betsy wasn't in that meeting, so it was Paul and Allison who were in that meeting. Wonderful. Allison Eiffel. And then I had to meet with Betsy the next day because she was unable to make that meeting. And Betsy, as you know, is Shonda's partner. And I just. When I got in the meeting, listen, it's kind of like that audition crasher that I told you about. She walked into that meeting like, look, I don't know what's going on, but I read this script, honey, and this is amazing. You know, I just was so lit up by this project. So lit up.
- [48:03]
Sophia Bush
Yes.
- [48:04]
Susan Kelechi Watson
I was like, whatever you guys need, you know, whatever I just. I want you to have, because this project is incredible. I would love to be a part of this thing. I. It's playing for me in my head like a movie already. But I think I just was so excited to meet who was behind it. And, like, it was just very exciting to me. I don't know. It didn't feel like anything. Like, you know, sometimes those things can feel tense or, you know, like you have nerves or something. I didn't feel anything like that. I was just so excited by the material. I just thought it was fun. It just. All of it just felt really amazing and just sort of like, I just had so much love for it. I think I led with that than anything else. And we just had an amazing conversation about it. And again, the next day, I met with Betsy and We just had an amazing conversation. And the great thing about Shondaland is like, wow, they get some amazing people to work for them. And with them, I should say, they are just an incredible team over there. And it's really inspiring the way they put people together and how they lift people up, you know, in their own journeys as writers or as actors, as, you know, behind the scenes. They make sure, you know, crews are respected and that things are as diverse as possible and that people get as much opportunity as possible. So it has been just such a wonderful, wonderful ride with Chandelier. Yeah. To leave, you know, that's the space of the, this is us space. And going to that space was really kind of amazing. And it felt very correlated in a way, because it was very similar in terms of the type, of the type of people I was working with. It's just really good people.
- [49:57]
Sophia Bush
Good people. And it's, and it is, it's a level. It's, it's, it's rare air, you know, and I've thought about you guys so much as I've been watching the show since the premiere, because while it's in my, you know, every couple of days I get to another episode moment in life, I've. I've been working on graze this season. And let me tell you something, like, walking onto that set, I went, oh, I see. Yeah, this, this is exactly the kind of place I want to come to work. The way people respect each other, the way people speak to each other, the, the both efficiency that exists so that you can be patient with the work. Like it, it's rare.
- [50:47]
Susan Kelechi Watson
Yeah. Yeah.
- [50:48]
Sophia Bush
And, oh, man, there's, there's something very special that the Shondaland Enterprise does, and I feel like it comes through on screen. Like I'm, I'm watching you all and the pacing and the cuts and the, there's always something bubbling under the surface, and it feels so exciting and it feels very sparkly.
- [51:11]
Susan Kelechi Watson
I love that. I love that. I, I, I think when I think of Shondaland, I think of sparkly, don't you?
- [51:17]
Sophia Bush
Yes.
- [51:17]
Susan Kelechi Watson
Like, it's, it just feels like you are watching TV through, like, champagne.
- [51:23]
Sophia Bush
Yeah.
- [51:23]
Susan Kelechi Watson
It's just like the best. You know what I'm saying?
- [51:26]
Sophia Bush
There's just glitter on it.
- [51:27]
Susan Kelechi Watson
It's just. Yes. There's just something shiny about it that you just want to jump into the screen and, and be with them. And the stories are compelling and they make you want to. It's the best page turn. It just makes you want to turn the page and go to the next and go to the next. And. And so, yeah, I've binged so many Shonda shows as. As everybody else has, you know, so the minute I knew that I was going to Shondaland, I. Yeah, I was on, like, the first ticket out of here. I was like, yes, I will be there.
- [52:01]
Sophia Bush
And how did you guys. How. As a unit, you know, I think about this world you're inhabiting. I think about how Uzo's character comes in as this detective, how everybody's got to build out the kind of political apparatus of the White House around it. And the show is at the same time very serious and very funny. It's a murder mystery, but it's funny. How did you all figure out how to pull the strings of getting the tone just right?
- [52:38]
Susan Kelechi Watson
Paul was very specific about the tone. He knew what he wanted it to be. He was very. It was written into it musically, I think, and rhythmically, his tone was written into the script. He was very hands on about it. So I don't think we were ever at a loss necessarily for, like, where we at and what's the tone. I think in the very beginning, we had to figure it out, you know, those first. First week or so. But once we were into it and we got it, I think it was there. And like I said, it was something that I. I know Paul was very clear about from the beginning, but it's.
- [53:22]
Sophia Bush
It's.
- [53:22]
Susan Kelechi Watson
It's fun and. And one of the things that caught us the most or caught our attention the most was that you really had to play against a lot of. Some of the jokes in order for it to be funny in a way that's funny, that doesn't, like, wear you out. Do you know what I mean? Like, because it's very dry. Yeah. If you do it dry, then you can kind of keep that going for a while. But if everybody's, like, huge, you know what I mean? It can get like, oh, child. It's a lot, you know. So, yeah, I think that there was something really smart about one of the things they said was just play it very straight. Play it straight, you know, and just let it be there. Let the comedy be there. And I love comedy like that. I love comedy where you kind of don't see, like, everybody's just being. And they're just hilarious. Me too. Yeah.
- [54:09]
Sophia Bush
I don't. I don't like that embarrassing, like, dumb, anxious comedy. I like.
- [54:14]
Susan Kelechi Watson
Right.
- [54:14]
Sophia Bush
I like this sort of intellectual, almost. I don't want to say it's a British dryness because it's a very American show, but it has a little bit.
- [54:23]
Susan Kelechi Watson
Yeah, there is that. Isn't that. That is a very kind of British thing though, isn't it?
- [54:27]
Sophia Bush
Yeah, a little bit.
- [54:29]
Susan Kelechi Watson
It's. Yeah, it has that. It's, it's witty, you know, and, and it's smart and it's dry and then sometimes it's just straight up, you know, you have characters in there like the Third man, and you're just like, oh, that's just straight up comedy. You know what I'm saying? So there's so many different ways I think it can go, but I, I know that it's very grounded by, by Uzo's Cordelia cup, which is a beautiful, beautiful thing, you know.
- [55:02]
Sophia Bush
Is it so much fun to watch her play this character?
- [55:08]
Susan Kelechi Watson
I'm hoping, because, you know, it's just watching people play was one of the joys of, of being on the show is. Yeah, you could be in a scene and there are like, you know, there might be like 12 people in the scene with you right now, and you might not be speaking, but as I'm watching, you know, whoever is speaking, I'm biting the inside of my cheek. I'm just trying to like hold it together because I want to laugh, you know, Like, I really want. I was like, oh, that was funny, you know, and I'm such a fan of comedy, so to see that firsthand and in person and then. And, and I also feel like Uzo has such great instincts, you know, Randall has such great. There's people, Ken Marino, there's people just with such great instinct. Molly Griggs, I just go on and on. Their instinct is, just has a bit of a comedic bend to it. So even sort of the most mundane things can be just really funny.
- [56:11]
Sophia Bush
I love that. And the set must be breathtaking because for the whole first episode I'm sitting there being like, I've. I've spent some time. What an insane sentence. Like my 9 year old self would geek. I've spent some time in the White House.
- [56:26]
Susan Kelechi Watson
At the White House.
- [56:27]
Sophia Bush
And like I'm looking at the set and then the, the sort of 3D model of the back. When the back wall comes off. It's so impressive.
- [56:35]
Susan Kelechi Watson
Wow. Wow.
- [56:37]
Sophia Bush
How many, like, how many sound stages. Is it just the biggest, craziest set you've ever worked on?
- [56:45]
Susan Kelechi Watson
Yeah, it was. I think somebody asked me today, like, was it. How did you do the various levels? Yeah, and you know, some things were built on a bit more of like an elevation so that you can come downstairs or you can go upstairs and you can do those types of things. And then some things were just on the, Just on a flat level and created to feel like you were going up and downstairs. But I felt, But I knew whenever I was in there, it just really put you in the middle of the White House. Like, you just. I've never been inside the White House, but after so many people who have been came back and told us it was eerily the exact copy, even down to the, like, the square footage in certain areas and things like that. So I, I really, you know, hats off to our design team because it's, it's really an incredible feat because people watch it and think, you didn't shoot that in the White House. Yeah.
- [57:53]
Sophia Bush
And you're like, we would literally never be allowed to do that. Well, what can we expect from season two? I am just so excited for more of this show.
- [58:03]
Susan Kelechi Watson
I, you know, I, I'm. We're waiting to hear. And I'm. Yeah. And I'm not sure what Paul is up to for season two. Okay. But I would be really excited to know. I knew, I do know that if, if and when they announce a season two, I, I, I know he would be very ready for when. I'm trusting that he is. He's just so brilliant. But I'm thankful that people want a season two. It's been, you know, it's so fun to, you know, hear people's response to the show and, and, and let me tell you something. In a heartbeat, they call me up, I'm. I'm there. For sure. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
- [58:43]
Sophia Bush
Ah. Oh, I love that. I know, I know. We've hit our time. I feel like I could spend all day chatting. We're gonna have to do this in New York in person soon.
- [58:53]
Susan Kelechi Watson
Oh, amazing.
- [58:55]
Sophia Bush
I would just love it. But I will part with my favorite and final question to ask people, which is just from here. And it can be a personal thing, a professional thing, a little mix of both what feels like your work in progress as you look out at the rest of your year and what's coming.
- [59:15]
Susan Kelechi Watson
I think be brave, be bold. I think that's the work in progress. Be brave, be bold. Because I feel like that calls me into things that I may not be as familiar with, things that will make you a little fearful because you don't know what it is or you're not sort of super comfortable. But also, just if I'm gonna do it, be brave about it and also be bold about it. Like, do it in a. Really step out. And I think that is call for 20, 25 and. And this is a really great year for that with everything going on in the world, you know, is to face it. Sort of face it. Whether you're fearful or not. Just. Yeah, face it and be bold about facing it.
- [60:22]
Sophia Bush
I love that.
- [60:23]
Susan Kelechi Watson
Yeah. So love that. That's what I'm gonna carry.
- [60:30]
Sophia Bush
Beautiful. Well, thank you so much. I'm. I'm just so happy to have spent the morning with you and so thrilled that you've brought me my next newest favorite show. So thank you for the personal and the entertainment.
- [60:45]
Susan Kelechi Watson
Yay. And I'm gonna watch you on Grace. Yay. Yay. Yay. I love that we're Shauna mates.
- [60:50]
Sophia Bush
We're in it.
- [60:51]
Susan Kelechi Watson
Yeah, we're in it.
- [60:53]
Sophia Bush
You have a beautiful rest of your day. Thank you.
- [60:55]
Susan Kelechi Watson
You too. So.
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