Arctic Exploration (Radio Edit)

Summary

Summary of "Arctic Exploration (Radio Edit)" Episode of You’re Dead to Me

Podcast Title: You’re Dead to Me
Host: Greg Jenner
Guests:

• Dr. Vanessa Heggie: Associate Professor in the History of Science and Medicine at the University of Birmingham's Department of Applied Health Science. Author of Higher and Colder on the history of extreme exploration.
• Stu Goldsmith: Comedian and host of The Comedians Comedian podcast.

Release Date: June 27, 2025

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Arctic Exploration," host Greg Jenner delves into the perilous history of the Northwest Passage—a sought-after sea route connecting the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans through the Arctic Ocean. Joined by historian Dr. Vanessa Heggie and comedian Stu Goldsmith, Jenner explores the ambitions, tragedies, and legacies of those who dared to navigate these frozen waters.

The Quest for the Northwest Passage

Greg Jenner sets the stage by explaining the allure of the Northwest Passage, highlighting its potential as a "massive new trade route" that would provide a direct pathway from Northern Europe to China and Asia, bypassing the lengthy and perilous routes around South America or Africa ([05:03]). This motivation was driven by the desires for trade, power, and strategic advantage.

Early Explorers and Their Ventures

John Cabot’s Expedition (1497):
The earliest European attempt to find the Northwest Passage was led by John Cabot (also known as Zuan Caboto or Jean Cabo to the French) in 1497. Departing from Bristol, Cabot reached the coast of Newfoundland but mistakenly believed he had found a route to China ([06:12]-[07:20]).

Giovanni da Verrazzano (1523):
Another notable figure, the Italian explorer Giovanni da Verrazzano, embarked on a quest in 1523. However, his expedition landed approximately 3,000 kilometers south of the intended destination in North Carolina, mistaking the open Pacific Ocean for the Northwest Passage ([07:34]-[07:55]).

Henry Hudson’s Endeavor:
In the early 17th century, Henry Hudson attempted the first-ever overwintering in the Arctic aboard HMS Discovery. His expedition reached Labrador and discovered what is now known as Hudson's Bay. However, disagreements over leadership and provisions led to a mutiny, resulting in Hudson’s demise in Hudson's Bay ([08:06]-[09:08]).

The Franklin Expedition: Ambition and Tragedy

Preparations and Departure (1845):
The most infamous Arctic mission was led by Sir John Franklin in 1845. Despite being Franklin's last choice for leadership, he commanded two fortified ships, HMS Erebus and HMS Terror, with a crew of 129. The ships were equipped with advanced features for the time, including steam-powered heating and reinforced screw propellers, and carried an unprecedented 8,000 tins of food ([13:20]-[15:26]).

Voyage and Last Sighting:
After departing from Aberdeen and making stops at Orkney and Greenland, Franklin’s expedition was last seen by two whaling ships in Baffin Bay in July 1845. No further contact was made, sparking widespread concern and numerous rescue missions initiated by Lady Jane Franklin ([16:24]-[16:55]).

The Aftermath: Rescue Attempts and Discoveries

Lady Jane Franklin’s Rescue Missions:
Determined to find her husband, Lady Jane Franklin spearheaded multiple rescue expeditions. Initial searches yielded little, but in 1850, three graves were discovered on Beechey Island, revealing the deaths of some crew members. Despite these findings, the fate of the rest remained elusive ([16:55]-[18:10]).

John Rae’s Investigations:
Scottish explorer John Rae played a crucial role by gathering indigenous testimonies and relics, leading to the grim revelation that cannibalism occurred among the stranded crew. Rae reported, “[...] from the mutilated state of the corpses and the contents of the kettles, it's evident that our wretched countrymen have been driven to the last resource, cannibalism, as a means of prolonging existence” ([18:14]-[19:39]).

Discovery of the Ships:
Centuries later, advanced technologies led to the discovery of both HMS Erebus (2014) and HMS Terror (2016). These findings provided new insights but also raised further questions about the true end of the Franklin Expedition, as anomalies in the ships suggested possible ongoing attempts at survival ([24:00]-[25:22]).

The Human Element: Morale and Leadership in Harsh Environments

In the "Nuance Window" segment, Dr. Vanessa Heggie offers a profound reflection on the psychological challenges of Arctic exploration. She emphasizes that beyond the physical hardships, maintaining morale was paramount:

“The skill of the expert is balancing that sort of irreverent fun with not losing respect and control, but also making sure that your men aren't bored.” ([25:51]-[26:09])

She highlights the importance of arts and creative activities in keeping the crew's spirits up, noting that Franklin stocked his ships with over a thousand books and encouraged activities like painting, sketching, and even theatrical productions as a means to sustain morale during the prolonged and monotonous periods of being trapped in ice ([25:51]-[28:02]).

Conclusion

The episode concludes with reflections on the enduring mysteries of Arctic exploration and the lessons learned about human resilience and leadership in the face of extreme adversity. Greg Jenner underscores the blend of historical inquiry and comedic insight that You’re Dead to Me offers, encouraging listeners to appreciate the complex narratives that shape our understanding of the past.

Notable Quotes

• Greg Jenner ([03:04]): “I absolutely love trying to make jokes about ocean acidification. Fly in a comedy club on a Friday night.”

• Dr. Vanessa Heggie ([05:03]): “It's a massive new trade route. It's a superhighway through to China.”

• Stu Goldsmith ([14:16]): “They’re going to have a spoon with a mark on it or a cap band, a navy cap band. And by tracing this…”

• John Rae ([19:39]): “[...] it's evident that our wretched countrymen have been driven to the last resource, cannibalism, as a means of prolonging existence.”

• Dr. Vanessa Heggie ([25:51]): “The skill of the expert is balancing that sort of irreverent fun with not losing respect and control, but also making sure that your men aren't bored.”

Additional Resources

For listeners interested in further explorations of maritime and medical history, the podcast recommends:

• Stu Goldsmith’s Episodes: Blackbeard and Ancient Medicine.
• Dr. Vanessa Heggie’s Episodes: Victorian Bodybuilding.

Listeners are encouraged to subscribe to You’re Dead to Me on BBC Sounds for early access and to share the podcast with friends.

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This summary captures the key discussions, insights, and notable moments from the "Arctic Exploration" episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those who haven't listened to it.

Transcript

[Stu Goldsmith]

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[Greg Jenner]

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[Stu Goldsmith]

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[Greg Jenner]

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[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

BBC Sounds Music Radio Podcasts.

[Greg Jenner]

Hello and welcome to youo're Dead To Me, the Radio 4 comedy podcast that takes history seriously. My name is Greg Jenner, I'm a public historian, author and broadcaster. And today we are packing our tins of preserved beef, donning our third undies and sailing off in search of the Northwest Passage. And joining me on the good Ship youp're Dead to Me are two very special shipmates. In History Corner, she's Associate professor in the History of Science and Medicine at the University of Birmingham's Department of Applied Health Science. What a title. You may have read her long running science column in the Guardian newspaper or her recent book Higher and Colder on the history of extreme exploration. And you will definitely remember her from our episode on Victorian Bodybuilding. It's Dr. Vanessa Heggie. Welcome back Vanessa.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

It's great to be back. Thanks for having me.

[Greg Jenner]

And in Comedy Corner, he's a sensational stand up and the host of the brilliant the Comedians Comedian podcast, which I love. You may have seen him on BBC Live at the Apollo recently or on Conan o' Brien's show, but you will definitely remember him from our back catalogue, including episodes on the History of Fandom and Blackbeard the Pirate. It's Stu Goldsmith. Welcome back, Stu.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Aye, aye, Captain. He said, clinging on to the thing that you set up some three minutes ago about how we were on the good ship. You're dead to me, Captain.

[Greg Jenner]

Thank you very much.

[Stu Goldsmith]

It's a great pleasure to be back. I'm very excited to be here.

[Greg Jenner]

Lovely to have you back, Stu.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Thank you. I'm clearly giddy with glee to you.

[Greg Jenner]

I know you're interested in climate change as an area of policy and discourse, but also comedy, right?

[Stu Goldsmith]

Yes, for sure. Yes. I absolutely love trying to make jokes about ocean acidification. Fly in a comedy club on a Friday night.

[Greg Jenner]

So what does the Northwest Passage mean to you or the Arctic?

[Stu Goldsmith]

Very little. And when I found out this was going to be the subject, it did occur to me to do revision, and I didn't because I've got principles.

[Greg Jenner]

Good.

[Stu Goldsmith]

So I should be looking forward to all of this information being new.

[Greg Jenner]

So what do you know? This is where I have a go at guessing what you, our lovely listener, will know about today's subject. And I am guessing everyone knows where the Arctic is, but if you are confused, it's the bit at the top. Maybe people have heard of John Franklin's famed 19th century expedition, which recently was fictionised in a novel. And then the TV series the Terror God. That was great. Good telly. It also has inspired many novels. A book by national treasure Michael Palin. I love him. So, if you're listening from Canada, you might be familiar with the song Northwest Passage by Stan Rogers. But what is the Northwest Passage? Or what was the Northwest Passage? Why did so many explorers risk everything to find it? And how was the humble tin can both blessing and a curse? Let's find out. Right, we've called this episode Arctic Exploration, but really we're talking about the Northwest Passage, which is what or which was what? I mean, is it still a thing?

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

It sure is. The Arctic Passage is a seaway between the Atlantic and the Pacific Ocean. Going through the Arctic Ocean, it's a maze of hundreds of different islands and also a lot of sea ice. So it goes across the top of the North American continent. And it's probably many Northwest Passages, because obviously the way you sail through it will depend on how big your ship is and where the ice is at any one time.

[Greg Jenner]

Given how inhospitable this environment would have been, why do you think European explorers were so keen to go and stick their flag up this back passage?

[Stu Goldsmith]

I would say, glossing over the awful entendre that you just conjured, I would say, why do people do anything? Money and war and power. So probably if you get to be in charge of the bit that's on the top of the world, you get the strategic advantage over, well, sort of everywhere that it looks down on.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

I mean, the main appeal of it is it's a massive new trade route. It's a superhighway through to China. So Northern Europe can get to China and Asia without having to go around the bottom of South America or of Africa or going over land. And there's all those lovely Chinese luxury goods that you can trade for.

[Greg Jenner]

We have to sort of say it's not just European explorers. I mean, indigenous peoples were already sort of exploring this.

[Stu Goldsmith]

They'd already discovered it by the importance they discovered it.

[Greg Jenner]

They were living there. They were, you know.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

Yeah, definitely. And they were moving around extensively in the area as. So there's evidence of some migrations prior to the 12th century. And I think for this space, it's important to remember that it's quite resource scarce. So there'll be populations who'd be following food sources like walruses or like fish stocks. There's also evidence of trading between North American populations and sort of Norse populations as well. And they may also been moving for other resources, like iron deposits and stuff like that. So there's quite a lot of movement going on in the Arctic early on.

[Greg Jenner]

The first European voyager was in 1497. And like you, Stu, he had a Bristol connection. Do you know who this explorer might have been? 1497 set off from Bristol, Blackbeard.

[Stu Goldsmith]

I mean, it was a curveball guess, wasn't it? 1497, set off from Bristol. Was it someone awful like Cabot?

[Greg Jenner]

It was Cabot.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Oh, God, yeah. Okay. Yep.

[Greg Jenner]

Yeah, it was Cabot who had a variety of names. We call him John Cabot in England, but he was Zuan Caboto because he was Venetian, which is a different dialect. Was he really? I didn't know that he was a Venetian.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Oh, good. We can declaim him.

[Greg Jenner]

You could try. You could try.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Say it again, please.

[Greg Jenner]

Zuan Ciabotto. But also he was also Joan Caboto. He was also Jean Cabo to the French. And he was John Cabot.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Any old name in a port, as they don't say. But what a lovely to have a basic name and then turn up and just do regional variations on it.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

It's good, isn't it?

[Stu Goldsmith]

Yes. When I perform in Paris, I'm Stuart Gulchy.

[Greg Jenner]

Lovely. He sets off from Bristol. Why? Because he's a Venetian. What's he doing in Bristol?

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

Well, I'm not sure we really know why he moved to England. There are little bits of his life that are mysterious. But he was there by the late 1400s, and he gets permission, basically, from the king to set off for an Arctic voyage, has a fail in 1496, has a second go in a boat called the Matthew 14:97. He gets as far, we think, as the coast of Newfoundland, but he's mostly along sort of the coastline of Quebec around the coast of Canada. He names some things, unfurls a flag, gets very excited about it, comes back home thinking that he's discovered China.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Oh, much colder than we were expecting, your majesty.

[Greg Jenner]

Yeah. So John Cabot, or Zwan Caboto, was sent off by Henry vii. Henry Tudor, father of Henry viii. There are more expeditions, and they're not. They don't go that well, do they, Vanessa?

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

No, he's definitely not alone in getting quite confused about where he is. There's also the Italian explorer Giovanni da Verrazzano, and he's looking specifically for the Northwest Passage. And he thinks he finds it, but he finds it much further south than anyone expected it to be. And it turns out what he thought was the open Pacific Ocean, he'd actually landed about 3,000 kilometers south in North Carolina.

[Greg Jenner]

So that was 1523. Then we get more explorers heading off to chart Newfoundland's coastline. Everyone's racing. Our next contestant is a man called Henry Hudson. Heard the name?

[Stu Goldsmith]

No.

[Greg Jenner]

Okay, that's fair.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

He's not.

[Greg Jenner]

You know, he's quite famous because he's.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Heard of the movie Hudson Hawk and the Hudson river, and that's all my.

[Greg Jenner]

Hudson's the Hudson River.

[Stu Goldsmith]

The Hudson river, yes.

[Greg Jenner]

Yeah.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Well, obviously he invented or fell in as a result. It was named for or after him.

[Greg Jenner]

You're not far off there, actually, Stu. So he's got a bay named after him, he's got a river named after him. That must mean he did something heroic. No?

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

Yeah. Well, he attempted the first ever overwintering in the Arctic. So the idea was to sail up, stay in the ice over the winter, and then have further sail afterwards to try and find the Northwest Passage. He got as far as Labrador, and he found what he thought was open sea, and it turns out to be what's now known as Hudson's Bay. So he successfully overwinters, but then when the ice melts in the summer, his crew are like, well, we're going home now. And he wants to go further north, so there's a mutiny. We don't have certain reports of what happened on the mutiny because obviously we only have the mutineers story about what happened.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Oh, presumably they won.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

Yes.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Gotcha.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

Okay, so we've got a journal from the ship's navigator who's called Abac Pripett, and apparently such a great name.

[Greg Jenner]

Sorry, Abacut Prickett.

[Stu Goldsmith]

It's a Henry Hudson. Forgive the mutiny. Lots of love, Henry. Written in someone's left hand.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

It's pretty much exactly that. He basically said that there was some rumor that Hudson was hoarding food and the men didn't like that. And then apparently there was some sort of dispute over a stolen coat. And fundamentally the outcome was allegedly alive and well. Hudson, his teenage son, 700 crew members were put in a small boat with supplies and kind of sent off into Hudson's Bay to fend for themselves. And the discovery sailed home with everybody else.

[Greg Jenner]

And the upshot is that Henry Hudson is left to die, much like his crew. We have to leave Hudson behind. Sorry, Hudson. Nice.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Lovely link.

[Greg Jenner]

Thank you.

[Stu Goldsmith]

I'd feel more happy about the link than the naming of the bay. I'd be dying in the Arctic thinking, well, maybe one day a podcaster in the future. I don't know what that is, but maybe they'll segue away from me with a reference to my death.

[Greg Jenner]

Various other explorers kept venturing into these very dangerous waters. Can you chart us a course through these next two centuries of attempts? What are the highlights or lowlights?

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

Sure. The stories are going to be all the same, which is people going, getting lost, getting trapped in the ice and coming home or not coming home. I think one of the big stories is the expedition by Jens Munch, who was sent out by the Danish king. And that one's just notable because he lost all but three of his crew due to scurvy and came back. So that was 1619. So there's a little bit of a lull in the 17th century. People aren't trying for the Northwest Passage for obvious reasons, because they've heard about Jens Munch, presumably, but there's this infrastructure being set up. So The Hudson's Bay Company is founded in the 1660s, 70s, and the result of that is it's setting up forts and trading posts and ports to enable fur trade and things like that. And that's a resource that the Arctic explorers could start using. And it also means that quite a few people are getting their first experience of the Arctic on land, working for the Hudson's Bay Company. And then they try for the route itself.

[Greg Jenner]

Then we get Sir John Barrow, and he's got a plan.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

Definitely. We are peak hunt for the Northwest Passage time. Now we're into the 19th century. It's all really kicking off. So Sir John Barrow is second secretary to the Admiralty. He really pushes not just for Northwest Passage, but also for attempts at the North Pole as well. This is again partly for trade and power and the rest of it, but it's also the fact that America is now independent. So there's now pressures on the British in the sort of North American regions. Russia has now taken Alaska, so they're not the only power in the area. And also we've just had the Napoleonic wars and there's this massive, well resourced navy who kind of don't have any more battles to fight. So it's useful for them to have something else to do. And so the Northwest Passage is kind of part of that.

[Greg Jenner]

We've paid for all these ships and now they're just sitting idle.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Come on. I love the moment of realization when they were like, well, that's Napoleon dealt with. What are we gonna hang on? Like, I love the idea of someone who ever had this. I'm gonna get. I'm gonna get some land for this idea. Yeah.

[Greg Jenner]

And so Barrow, he's off his expeditions in 1818. And do they succeed?

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

No. He sends out two different expeditions in 1818 in two different directions, and both of them find an impenetrable wall of ice and they come home.

[Greg Jenner]

Right, Good, ditto. So we've got naval officers sitting around naval gazing, but they can't get through the ice.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Naval gazing. I mean, that didn't get what it deserved.

[Greg Jenner]

How would you entertain a ship full of sailors who are sort of hunkered over in the ice?

[Stu Goldsmith]

Drag sea shanty.

[Greg Jenner]

I'm up for that.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Drag sea shanty competition.

[Greg Jenner]

Nice.

[Stu Goldsmith]

And in stages, knockout tournament that'll keep us going for a month.

[Greg Jenner]

Surely 32 drag artists whittled them down.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Yes, lovely.

[Greg Jenner]

Okay. I mean, that's pretty good.

[Stu Goldsmith]

I mean, I just went straight off the top of my head there, but I think that would work.

[Greg Jenner]

Yeah. Okay. So we've got various sort of powers and superpowers in the region, but in the 1840s, Britain. Hello. Britain at last launches the most famous Arctic mission of all the 18 in the 1840s. So it's, it's pretty. You know, this is kind of peak Queen Victoria era. She came to power in 1837. So we are in the Victorian era. And the Franklin expedition is the big one. It's the one that we're probably Going to focus the rest of the episode on. Can you talk us through this Franklin chap who is Sir John Franklin?

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

John Franklin. So by this point, the 1840s, he's quite famous. He's a well known naval explorer and sailor. He has experience in Arctic waters. He was actually one of the crews on that first 1818 expedition out that John Barrow sent out. He'd done an overland expedition to find passage in 1819 and in 1823 he'd had a third expedition out by sea. And that was the one that really made his name because he came back with really good maps of the area, he wrote a popular book and he got knighted. So he was really well known as an Arctic explorer at this point.

[Greg Jenner]

So he sounds like he should be top of the list for candidates being drawn up to lead this new, this latest expedition. Is he the kind of number one go to guy?

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

He's not even close to really. Barrow has a list of alternative people, all with Arctic experience who he wants, but they pretty much most of them turn it down and he kind of ends up with his last choice of Franklin, who is 59 at this point. So on the 19th of May 1845, the HMS Erebus under Franklin and the HMS Terror under Crozier. Crozier had been offered the position to lead and he'd apparently turned it down out of modesty. So those two guys are together.

[Greg Jenner]

Oh, that's so. That's so wonderfully tense. Off they go. And these are not ordinary naval ships, they're naval vessels.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

Yeah. But they've been souped up basically. So they've, they've got an internal central heating system that's steam powered and they have these very fancy, powerful screw propellers that are reinforced with steel.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Okay.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

And they are vastly provisioned as well. So the plan is to have at least three years of food supplies in there because we know the Arctic is resource limited. So they're taking things like 8,000 tins of food with them.

[Greg Jenner]

Amazing.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

This is a problem though.

[Stu Goldsmith]

I don't think anything can go wrong with that tin.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

No, definitely. And the issue is that they're planning at quite short notice. So the tins have to be made really, really quick. And the supplier, Stephen Goldner, ended up doing them as a rush job. So some of the lead soldering from the outside wasn't applied properly and has dripped down inside.

[Stu Goldsmith]

The can't be bad lead in your food. There's gonna be no side effects from that. That's all, I imagine.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

Sit there in the hull for terror.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Just relax in the terror.

[Greg Jenner]

So, 129 crew on the two ships. Stu, what food would you pack for an Arctic expedition? Yeah. You've got 8,000 tins to fill. What are you popping in there?

[Stu Goldsmith]

Oh, I could put anything in a tin. Spaghetti hoops. My wife's too good for them. She won't have them in the house. Spaghetti hoops for sure, I think. Well, you'd want carbs, you'd want meat. I think you'd want protein and carbs. But you'd also not want to neglect your fruit and veg.

[Greg Jenner]

Yeah.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Would the fruit and veg need to go into tins for three years? It sure would. Peaches. I'd go for it.

[Greg Jenner]

Yeah.

[Stu Goldsmith]

I don't know what's available at the time. I'd want every fifth tin. I'd want to be a secret tobacco stash you could reveal at parties. And make up for your drag show, of course. What are the foods of the time? Can you get a Fray Bentos?

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

No. Yeah, well, sort. Fray bentos is about 1880. It's a little bit later, but it would be.

[Stu Goldsmith]

My God, you're good.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

But it would be. It would be tinned, salted. Me. And tinned. Salted vegetables as well. And occasionally fruits.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Tin salted fruit.

[Greg Jenner]

All right, so we've got two ships, 129 crew, two captains, one of whom was offered the job and turned it down, one of whom shouldn't have been offered the job but took it anyway. And off we go with our lovely voyage. Talk us through it.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

So we stop at Orkney for some fresh water and then we finally sail on to Greenland, where we go to Disco Bay, call up, bring in some fresh meat, spin.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Hang on, you're there. Is this drag show happening or what? We're at Disco Bay in Greenland. How are we spelling Disco with a K?

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

You've ruined it.

[Stu Goldsmith]

It's even cooler. It's more kind of 80s D I.

[Greg Jenner]

S, K O. Yeah.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

Tragically, this is also where the men write their last letters home.

[Greg Jenner]

Oh.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Oh, let's put a downer on it.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

And Franklin tells them that there's going to be no swearing and no drinking on the expedition. No chocolate.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Yes, yes. How to motivate your crew.

[Greg Jenner]

Yeah. Another mutiny stone. They get food, they get water, off they go, they go to Greenland and then what? What?

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

That's the big question. We do have a sighting in July 1845. There's two whaling ships, Prince of Wales and Enterprise. Both better names.

[Greg Jenner]

Yes.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

Good days. They spot the expedition in Baffin Bay, where they're Hauled up, waiting for slightly better weather to continue. And that is the last time that any Europeans see the ships or the crew. Wow.

[Stu Goldsmith]

And up to now, like, have we.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

Up until very recently.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Yeah, Gotcha. Yeah. Okay.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

Spoilers.

[Greg Jenner]

There's stuff coming to stuff.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

There are campaigns to go and rescue them. Obviously, Lady Jane Franklin is very keen to get her husband rescued. She is a.

[Greg Jenner]

So this is Sir John's wife?

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

Yes, this is Sir John's wife and she is a force to be reckoned with. She's an explorer in her own right. She went up Mount Wellington when they were in Tasmania. She did all these bushwalks and things like this. She's actually the first woman to be awarded the Royal Geographical Society's founders medal in 1860 in recognition of all the amazing geographical work that was done on the expeditions that she sponsored to go and look for her husband. So she's quite a force. She manages to get the Admiralty, after the three years are up, to send out the first rescue missions.

[Stu Goldsmith]

They were last seen in 1845.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

So they set out in 1845.

[Stu Goldsmith]

They set out in 1845.

[Greg Jenner]

And then three years later, Lady Franklin says, I do think maybe we need to send some ships.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

Each need a plan of something.

[Greg Jenner]

Yeah. Because they're running out of food. If they're still alive, they will need help. And off goes this sort of big mission. And what do they find, Vanessa?

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

So the initial Admiralty expeditions don't find any trace of Franklin. They don't find where he is. Lady Franklin continues to push them a little bit to send out further expeditions. The first traces are found in 1850 and that's when one of the Admiralty expeditions, that's the Lady Franklin, as it happens, finds three graves on a place called Beechey Island. And that's John Hartnell and William Brain from Erebus and the lead stoker, John Torrington from the Terror. So they knew that the ships had spent the winter in the ice at this point, from 45 to 46, but they still didn't know what had happened to them or to the rest of the crews.

[Greg Jenner]

At what stage does the Admiralty go, we think they're lost.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

They officially declare them dead in service on the 31st of March 1854. So that's when they've been away nine years and there has been no sightings, no traces of them. Yeah.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Wow.

[Greg Jenner]

They're officially mia, but then kia, so killed in action, I suppose. But the nail in the coffin is 1854. It's a report, isn't it, John Rae?

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

Yeah. So the Main work done in the 1850s, trying to look for Franklin is this Scottish explorer, John Rae. He's funded by the Hudson's Bay Company as well as the Admiralty on some of these. And he's doing that inland exploration. So he's going through rivers and lakes and looking at the coastline. And his big thing was he really relied on indigenous testimony and Inuit populations to try and get reported sightings of white people in the Arctic to find out what was going on. He managed to trade or buy some relics that he could prove came from the Franklin ship. So, like a spoon with a mark on it or a cap band, a navy cap band. And by tracing this and sort of going back to places where he thought they might possibly have been, he was able to build up this story about what probably happened to them and write a report for the Admiralty that said they probably all died, they landed and probably all died somewhere in the region of King William Island. And he had some really unpleasant evidence that they'd experienced some real desperate times. This is a quote from his report that he got from an Inuit witness, that from the mutilated state of the corpses and the contents of the kettles, it's evident that our wretched countrymen have been driven to the last resource, cannibalism, as a means of prolonging existence.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Did they tin each other?

[Greg Jenner]

Well, that's the thing. The kettle is a boiling meat. Right, yes. Brings a whole new meaning to pop the kettle on, doesn't it? So this is obviously shocking news. Nine years to officially sort of declare the mission a complete failure and everyone dead. And then this sort of comprehensive report by Ray. How did the British public back home, you know, this is the height of the Victorian Empire. This is sort of pomp and circumstance. You know, we are. Britain is a superpower at this point, and suddenly this message comes back saying everyone's dead and they ate each other.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

This is. I mean, it's a huge admiralty fail in terms of publicity because John Ray was actually writing a separate report for the public. They probably shouldn't have published the cannibalism story.

[Stu Goldsmith]

I was going to say, how did they let that get out?

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

But once it's out, it's out and there is huge resistance and denial to it. And that's made easier by the fact that this is not what John Ray saw himself firsthand. This is still all secondhand reports from indigenous witnesses. So there are people like Charles Dickens is the really famous one, who are writing these sort of op ed pieces, basically saying, and I'm going to Use his words here that these are savage people, they can't be trusted. They're natural born liars. They're just making stuff up and you couldn't possibly believe what they have to say.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Wow. I mean, the big takeaway for me, with all respect to Franklin, is that Dickens wrote like that. That's a shame.

[Greg Jenner]

I mean, that's a very difficult thing for people to hear. Is that the last word on the, on the expedition then, Vanessa? I mean, you know, nine years it's been missing. A report has been issued. The public has scandalized the Admiralty, presumably in the. Oh, well, do they get chastised and criticized or is this bad luck?

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

It's just bad luck. It's another one of the expeditions. Most of them had failed at this point, but Lady Jane Franklin is not accepting this. The Admiralty are not going to send out any more search and rescue missions, so she starts funding her own. She basically crowdfunds it. She crowdfunds it.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Oh, in order to find, like to prove that there wasn't cannibalism?

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

Effectively, yes.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Okay. Yes.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

So she, she sends out an expedition in 1857. It sails out of Aberdeen and that one finds some certainty. In 1859. It discovers the cairn, the one I mentioned. It has a note inside it which is the last written note of the expedition. It's known as the Victory Point note and it is in King William Ireland, as John Rainey had suggested. The Victory Point note is actually two separate notes. So it's one note that's written in May 1847 that says everything's well. And then there's one written in April 1848 that says, no, everything's really bad now. So there are two conflicting stories. And according to the note, Franklin had died sometime in June 1847. We don't know why, but over the course of being stuck in this area, 24 men on the ship had died. Captain Crozier had taken over the whole expedition. And after 19 months of the boats being. Being stuck and drifting in the ice, they decided to leave the boats and try and head overland to get to a Hudson Bay Company camp in order to be rescued. And it seems like when we sort of think where the finds are, the corpses were the message, and the Inuit testimony that what happened was all of the men died on that inland trek.

[Greg Jenner]

So the survivors of the ship went overland and then just succumbed to cold.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

Dehydration, cold, starvation, scurvy. There were reports of them, like, literally dropping as they walked across the ice. There were reports that make it sound like they were probably suffering from the symptoms of scurvy and other starvation related diseases.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Was there any proof Yay or nay on the cannibalism. Besides, when she found the note in the cairn, was there did it end? And no matter what anyone says, we definitely didn't eat Tony.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

There was almost certainly cannibalism of some of the members. Yes.

[Greg Jenner]

Okay.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

So it's always a little bit difficult, but there have been remains found. There is a suggestion that that happened.

[Greg Jenner]

Yes. Okay.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

Rol Amundsen actually finally makes a successful attempt on the Northwest Passage. He starts in 1903, doesn't actually make it all the way over to Alaska till 1906. So it still takes him three years to do it. But he does it in small boats and sleds. He doesn't take a big ship. He learns from the local travel.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Is that the first? I'm sort of as we go, not till 1907.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

Well, he starts 1903 and he gets there in 1906.

[Stu Goldsmith]

So in 1906 it finally gets there.

[Greg Jenner]

So 60 years later it's finally done by Amundsen, who of course later, famously is the conqueror of the South Pole. The race to the South Pole. That's it. Northwest achieved.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

But not for a large boat.

[Greg Jenner]

Oh, of course, of course. So the whole point of it is.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

Still you can't trade in a small kayak to China, so.

[Greg Jenner]

Well, no, unless you've got any porcelain. Just put it in the bag.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Saffron.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

So small musk probably would be the best version.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Plutonium. Yes, yes. Something really. Oh, too heavy. At what point does trade happen via that route, if ever?

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

Well, the Cargo ships are 2008, so it's late 2008. We invented planes and then it didn't matter so much.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Yeah. Oh God, that is a killer, isn't it?

[Greg Jenner]

Alright, what have we learned since then? Because since then we've got marine archaeology and sat nav and geostationary satellites and archaeology. So.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

Yeah, so there are still competing versions about what exactly happened to the expedition. Lots of people have gone back to look for more relics, more skeletons and so on to recollect the testimony. There's an idea that some of the men didn't die entirely on the walk. They may actually have gone back to one of the ships, remanned it and sailed it a little distance and then it sunk. And that's where the final die.

[Stu Goldsmith]

What, they walked halfway, then they turned around and went back to the ship.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

It's definitely a theory. We exhumed the bodies on the island in 1984 and did proper forensics on them, and that's when they were discovered to have very high levels of lead. So there was a strong theory that actually lead poisoning led to some of the deaths, although even there, there's some questions because people in the 19th century had much higher levels of lead in their body anyway.

[Greg Jenner]

Oh, sure, yeah.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

And a lot of hope was pinned on finding the boats, because they thought, if we get the boats, then we'll get the answers. And it's again with indigenous testimony. Parks Canada finally managed to find both of the boats. They got the Erebus in 2014 and the Terror in 2016. But even here, that's just caused more problems in some cases. So the Terror wasn't quite where they thought it should be. It didn't have its anchor down, so it looked like it had been sailing. Some hatches are open, some are closed. So was it sinking or not sinking? There's a small boat on it. So why didn't they use that for evacuation if it sank? There's just more questions to be answered. We don't really know the detailed, complete fate of everyone on that expedition. Still. Whoa.

[Stu Goldsmith]

I mean, this is where I should chip in with a funny comment, but I'm afraid I'm reeling from that. That's incredible.

[Greg Jenner]

Me too. The Nuance Window. Time now for the Nuance Window. This is the part of the show where Stu and I sit quietly in Disco Bay with our drag.

[Stu Goldsmith]

With our various drag outfits.

[Greg Jenner]

Exactly for two minutes, while Professor Dr. Vanessa takes the ship's wheel to tell us something that we need to know about Arctic exploration. So my stopwatch is ready. Take it away, Vanessa.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

Okay, I want to undermine the entire point of this episode by asking people to think about how incredibly boring exploration actually is. That might seem counterintuitive, because exploration is about movement and adventure and novelty, but the reality is that a lot of the Northwest Passage expeditions, particularly by sea, were frequently static, because getting your boat stuck in the ice over winter was part of the tactic of getting around. And sometimes that ice didn't melt in the summer, so you could end up being stuck in the same place for a year, two years, same horizon, same companions, same food for all of that time. When we debate the legacy of great explorers, we often talk about their leadership skills, and we tend, I think, to focus on the drama. Did they get their men through disaster and death and crisis? But I think we also need to think about how they motivated their teams and stopped them from being bored, because that sort of basic psychology is a really crucial part of leadership, particularly for this sort of expedition. An ice tin boat does still need a certain amount of maintenance. You can keep people occupied swabbing decks and making food, you can send people out to do science, they can take the weather measurements, they can draw up maps and things like that, but it's enough. We also need arts and crafts. So you're going to have some men who are going to be painting, they're going to be sketching, they're going to be whittling, they're going to be singing. But these ships also put on, for example, extravagant theatrical productions with full sets, costumes and brand new musical songs. Now, sissy, that mission, they also produce what we call zines. So amateur magazines that would have satirical plays and poems and drawings and cartoons in that the men would actually sometimes take home as keepsakes of this, like, really cool time they had in the ice with all of their friends, like a happy memory. So the skill of the expert is balancing that sort of irreverent fun with not losing respect and control, but also making sure that your men aren't bored. And they're doing this with this sort of eclectic mix of science and exercise and food and celebration, but also, crucially, using the arts. So as well as 8,000 tins, Franklin also took over a thousand books on his voyage to stock the library to keep everyone interested. There's a lot of lessons we can draw here, and I think the really crucial role of the arts to keeping up human morale is definitely in there. But what I'd like to emphasise is that while our most common image of exploration is this sort of macho adventure novelty for a lot of the people, a lot of the time it's actually quite boring, routine domestic work.

[Greg Jenner]

Amazing.

[Stu Goldsmith]

See, Mum? Comedians can be useful on a mission.

[Greg Jenner]

Chief Morale Officer.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Yeah, exactly. That's always, I thought, what I'd rely on.

[Greg Jenner]

If you want more of that, you can check out our episodes with Stu on Blackbeard and Ancient Medicine, which are sort of medical and maritime too. For more of Dr. Vanessa or Professor Dr. Vanessa, choose our Victorian bodybuilding episode, which is also about sort of masculinity in the 19th century, sort of similar themes. And remember, if you've enjoyed the podcast, please leave a review. Share the show with your friends. Subscribe to youo Dead to Me on BBC Sounds to hear these episodes first, because they come out a month earlier on BBC Sounds. Switch on your notifications, otherwise you won't be told. Just like to say a huge thank you to our guests in History Corner. We had the incredible Dr. Vanessa Heggie from the University of Birmingham. Thank you, Vanessa.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

Thank you for inviting me.

[Greg Jenner]

Pleasure. And in Comedy Corner, we have the stupendous Stu Goldsmith. Thank you, Stu.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Thanks for having me. And if anyone listening to this knows my mum, can you drop her a text and tell her you heard it because she'll be awfully proud.

[Greg Jenner]

And to you, lovely listener, join me next time as we navigate another treacherous historical subject. But for now, I'm off to go and bin all my tinned food and scrub my kettle. Bye.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Hello, I'm Robin Ince. And I'm Brian Cox. And we would like to tell you about the new series of the Infinite Monkey Cage. In this series we're going to have a plan it off. We decided it was time to go cock. So we are gonna do Jupiter versus Scepter. That's very well done that, because in the script it does say in square brackets, wrestling voice, question mark. And once we touch back down on this planet, we're going to go deep, really deep. Yes. We're journeying to the center of the earth with guests Phil Wang, Chris Jackson and Anna Ferreira. And after all of that intense heat and pressure, we're just going to come of chill out a bit and talk about ice. And also in this series, we're discussing altruism. We'll find out what it is. Exploring the history of music recording with Brian Eno and looking at nature's shapes. So if that sounds like your kind of thing, you can listen to the Infinite Monkey Cage first on BBC Sounds.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

I'm Andini and I'm looking back on the life of a Hollywood icon whose.

[Greg Jenner]

Legacy lives on through more than just her film roles.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

She was someone who was interested in invention all her life. She wasn't that interested in the film that she was supposed to be starring in.

[Stu Goldsmith]

She was much more interested in the.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

Latest invention that she was working on, who developed an idea so revolutionary that it's still being used today.

[Morton Buildings Advertiser]

Frequency hopping.

[Stu Goldsmith]

It was used for secure military communications. It's in gps, it's in WI fi, it's in Bluetooth.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

And from the BBC World Service, untold Legends, Hedy Lamarr.

[Morton Buildings Advertiser]

Available now wherever you get your BBC.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

Podcasts.

[Stu Goldsmith]

This is history's heroes. People with purpose, brave ideas and the courage to stand alone. Including a pioneering surgeon who rebuilt the shattered faces of soldiers in the First World War.

[Dr. Vanessa Heggie]

You know, he would look at these men and he, he would say, don't worry, sonny, you'll have as good a face as any of us. When I'm done with you.

[Stu Goldsmith]

Join me, Alex von Tanzelman for History's Heroes. Subscribe to History's Heroes wherever you get your podcast.