You're Dead to Me: History of Broadway (Radio Edit)
Release Date: December 20, 2024
Host: Greg Jenner
Guests:
- Dr. Hannah Terisingham Robbins
Associate Professor in Popular Music and Director of the Black Studies Department at the University of Nottingham. - Desiree Burch
Comedian, actor, writer, known for appearances on Taskmaster, Frankie Boyle's New World of the Horn Section, and Netflix’s Too Hot to Handle.
Introduction to Broadway
[01:45] Greg Jenner:
Welcomes listeners to "You're Dead to Me," a BBC Radio 4 comedy podcast that takes history seriously. Introduces the episode focused on the "History of Broadway," highlighting the collaboration between comedy and historical insights.
What Defines a Broadway Musical?
[04:33] Dr. Hannah Terisingham Robbins:
Defines a Broadway musical as a blend of singing, drama, and spectacle, incorporating elements like exciting sets, costumes, and lighting. Emphasizes the hybrid nature of musicals, combining various genres to tell a story uniquely.
“The singing uses different storytelling and also kind of a different vocal style than we might expect if we're listening to popular music.” – Dr. Robbins [05:37]
[05:37] Desirée Burch:
Shares her passion for theater, stressing the importance of acting and singing in musicals. Critiques productions lacking in these areas, highlighting moments when musicals fail to engage.
“It feels like it needs to be singing, then acting and then movement.” – Desirée Burch [03:08]
The Early Days of Broadway
[07:14] Greg Jenner:
Explores the origins of Broadway, referencing early forms like vaudeville and minstrel shows. Questions whether these genres are synonymous.
[06:18] Dr. Robbins:
Clarifies the distinctions:
- Vaudeville: A variety show with sketches, songs, comedy, and dance, typically held in venues that sold alcohol, allowing patrons to "tap in and out."
- Burlesque: Initially a satirical form of entertainment in the 19th century, later incorporating striptease.
- Minstrel Shows: Performances involving white actors in blackface presenting racist comedy skits and songs.
“Vaudeville was lots of often sketches... tap in and out of the entertainment while it was taking place.” – Dr. Robbins [06:18]
The Rise of Broadway Musicals
[07:31] Desirée Burch:
Mentions the 1902 production of "The Wizard of Oz," noting its unconventional nature due to the absence of a traditional musical score.
“Some music, but not a score.” – Dr. Robbins [07:32]
[08:22] Desiree Burch:
Points out the replacement of Toto with Imogen the cow in the 1902 production, illustrating early adaptations.
“They changed Toto the Dog to Imogen the cow.” – Greg Jenner [08:22]
[09:30] Greg Jenner:
Highlights "In Dahomey" (1903), one of the first black-authored musicals, emphasizing its significance in both American and British theaters.
[10:27] Greg Jenner:
Transitions to the impact of Hollywood’s advent on Broadway, particularly the introduction of "talkies" in 1927 with "The Jazz Singer."
[10:58] Desiree Burch:
Connects the rise of sound films to a decline in Broadway theater attendance, as audiences preferred the new, cheaper cinematic experience.
“You could go for a much cheaper ticket to go and listen to songs, listen to dialogue. You don't need to go to the theatre.” – Greg Jenner [10:58]
The Golden Age of Broadway
[12:00] Greg Jenner:
Discusses the resurgence of Broadway in the 1940s and 1950s, dubbed the "Golden Age." Highlights the influential duo Rodgers and Hammerstein.
“Oklahoma” becomes an overnight sensation, blending plot, songs, dance, and music seamlessly. Ran over 2,000 performances, a significant increase from previous decades. – Dr. Robbins [12:18]
[13:24] Desirée Burch:
Describes the uplifting nature of "Oklahoma," reflecting America's wartime optimism.
“It's like America's great guys. Remember?” – Greg Jenner [13:24]
Technological Advancements and Their Impact
[14:52] Greg Jenner:
Explores the evolution of sound in musicals, from operatically trained performers pre-1960s to the gradual introduction of microphones and amplification.
“They are standing at the front of the stage singing to the audience, even though you're talking to someone else.” – Greg Jenner [15:05]
The Mega Musical Era
[16:08] Dr. Robbins:
Analyzes the 1970s as a pivotal decade when Broadway transitioned from popular music to a more commercial, spectacle-driven art form.
“Musical theater ceases to be the popular music. It becomes old-fashioned in comparison to what's happening both in popular music and in film.” – Dr. Robbins [16:08]
[17:24] Greg Jenner:
Mentions the ambitious but flawed production "Via Galactica" (1972), which attempted to mimic zero gravity with actors on trampolines, highlighting the challenges of innovation in Broadway.
“All of their actors bouncing on trampolines for the entire musical.” – Dr. Robbins [17:29]
[18:56] Dr. Robbins:
Credits Andrew Lloyd Webber for popularizing the mega musical, standardizing production elements to create destination performances like "The Phantom of the Opera," which can be replicated globally.
“These musicals become destination performances. You go to Broadway to see the Phantom of the Opera on Broadway.” – Dr. Robbins [18:56]
[20:06] Desiree Burch:
Expresses fascination with the spectacle of mega musicals, envisioning large ensembles, impressive stunts, and high production values.
“It's so weird that we had a British person come in to do that, because it's a very American thing.” – Desirée Burch [20:02]
Contemporary Broadway and Diversification
[21:11] Dr. Robbins:
Discusses the recent resurgence of musicals, driven by Disney adaptations and the enduring popularity of jukebox musicals. Highlights the diversity brought by shows like "Spring Awakening," "The Book of Mormon," and "Hamilton," which blend traditional elements with modern themes and music styles.
“Hamilton takes us kind of full circle as a musical that not only transcends the social, political context of musicals, but also goes back into popular music.” – Dr. Robbins [23:22]
[22:53] Greg Jenner:
Emphasizes the cyclical nature of Broadway, referencing the continuous influence of "The Wizard of Oz" throughout musical history.
“Wicked is a great example of taking what was an adult book and pitching it for teenagers.” – Dr. Robbins [22:53]
[24:15] Desiree Burch:
Remarks on "Hamilton" reaching number one on the Billboard rap chart, illustrating its groundbreaking fusion of musical styles.
“Hamilton becomes the first cast album to reach number one on the Billboard rap chart.” – Dr. Robbins [24:15]
The Nuance Window: Structural Elements of Musicals
[25:06] Dr. Robbins:
Explores the structural techniques musicals use to convey plot and character swiftly, such as:
- Spotlights and costume cues to highlight main characters.
- Dance sequences to depict dreams or introspections.
- Type-specific songs like “I Want” songs or love duets.
- Establishing numbers to set the scene and plot without detailed exposition.
She also notes the challenge of maintaining creative originality while adhering to these conventions, which can sometimes lead to the perpetuation of stereotypes or limited staging imagination.
“The creative efforts of lots of people over decades... can become invisible in this product that we think is a very simple thing to make.” – Dr. Robbins [25:06]
[27:26] Desiree Burch:
Reflects on the metaphorical implications of these structural elements, comparing the efficiency and cutbacks in musicals to broader societal and capitalist practices. Highlights the underlying nepotism and economic pressures that influence creative decisions.
“It's a really great metaphor for how we could sort of do life in capitalism.” – Desirée Burch [27:26]
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
[28:15] Greg Jenner:
Encourages listeners to explore more episodes related to musical history, such as those on Paul Robeson, Josephine Baker, and the Harlem Renaissance.
[24:20] Desiree Burch:
Expresses newfound appreciation for Broadway’s complexities and the role of jukebox musicals in sustaining the commercial practice of musical theater.
“Thank you so much for teaching me about stuff that I now miss because I didn't understand it the first time.” – Desirée Burch [24:20]
[25:06] Dr. Robbins:
Highlights the accessibility and broad appeal of musicals, thanks to their efficient storytelling and emotional resonance, while cautioning about the creative limitations imposed by established structural vocabularies.
Notable Quotes
-
Dr. Hannah Terisingham Robbins:
“Musicals rely on communicating plot and character really quickly, so they work in shortcuts... This makes musicals really exceptional, accessible to a broad audience.” – [25:06] -
Desirée Burch:
“Please remember me to Herald Square, particularly that Macy's. This has been amazing.” – [24:20] -
Greg Jenner:
“There's nothing new under the sun. Often on this show, we're always like, yeah, history. We've done it before.” – [24:43]
Key Takeaways
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Evolution of Broadway: From early vaudeville and minstrel shows to the integrated musicals of Rodgers and Hammerstein, Broadway has continually evolved, influenced by technological advancements and cultural shifts.
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Impact of Technology: The introduction of sound in films challenged Broadway's popularity, but the subsequent golden age saw musicals become more sophisticated and integrated, leading to the mega musical phenomenon.
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Diversity and Modernization: Contemporary Broadway embraces a wide range of styles and narratives, from Disney adaptations to groundbreaking works like "Hamilton," reflecting broader social and cultural dynamics.
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Structural Mastery: Musicals are adept at conveying complex stories and emotions efficiently, using a combination of music, dance, and visual cues to engage diverse audiences.
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Commercialization vs. Creativity: The balance between commercially successful productions and critically acclaimed, less commercial works remains a central tension in Broadway's landscape.
For More Episodes:
- Paul Robeson
- Josephine Baker
- Pythagoras
- The Harlem Renaissance
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Thank you to our guests: Dr. Hannah Terisingham Robbins and Desiree Burch for their invaluable insights into the history of Broadway.