
Hosted by Randall R. Greenwald · EN

This is part two of my interview with Wayne Jacobsen and Tobie Van der Westhuizen concerning their book Just Love: How One Mistranslation Distorted the Gospel. In this half of the interview we hear how Wayne and Tobie understand the law of God, particularly as it is written upon the Christian’s heart. More than that, we get to hear something of what is on their hearts. We encourage you to also subscribe to our newsletter where, on third Mondays and at other times there may be additional content. You can do so here. You can help support this podcast by supporting us on Patreon. You can do so here. EPISODE NOTES Notes and resources relevant to this episode: For an explanation of the name and intention of these occasional interviews, read this, or listen to it here or here. Wayne Jacobsen, Tobie Van Der Westhuizen, Just Love: How One Mistranslation Distorted the Gospel Dallas Willard, The Divine Conspiracy: Rediscovering Our Hidden Life In God Strahan Coleman, Thirsting: Quenching Our Soul’s Deepest Desire Watchman Nee, The Normal Christian life J. I. Packer, Knowing God R. T. France, I Came to Set the Earth on Fire: A Portrait of Jesus [Out of print. Also published as Jesus the Radical] When you buy a book using a link on this page, Greatheart’s Table receives a commission. Thank you for supporting this work! Podcast music provided by Cool Hand Luke and used with permission.Intro: “Holy Vanguard” / LyricsOutro: “Wonder Tour” / Lyrics / Video To find our more about Greatheart’s Table, visit us here.

We are joined by two authors who have written a book called Just Love, Wayne Jacobsen of California and Tobie Vander Westhuizen of South Africa. After we recorded the conversation, Wayne told me, “I love that you can engage in conversation without having to agree on every point.” Which is true. I don’t agree with every point. But it is good to hear the stories of these men, and to appreciate their hearts. Our goals are the same: to love God and others. I found the book to be both a polemic and plea. In speaking with the authors, it became clear that they aren’t concerned that readers accept their polemic as long as they respond to their plea. If you are able to listen to the whole interview, I think you will see what I mean. We encourage you to also subscribe to our newsletter where, on third Mondays and at other times there may be additional content. You can do so here. You can help support this podcast by supporting us on Patreon. You can do so here. EPISODE NOTES Notes and resources relevant to this episode: For an explanation of the name and intention of these occasional interviews, read this, or listen to it here or here. Wayne Jacobsen, Tobie Van Der Westhuizen, Just Love: How One Mistranslation Distorted the Gospel Dallas Willard, The Divine Conspiracy: Rediscovering Our Hidden Life In God Strahan Coleman, Thirsting: Quenching Our Soul’s Deepest Desire Watchman Nee, The Normal Christian life J. I. Packer, Knowing God R. T. France, I Came to Set the Earth on Fire: A Portrait of Jesus [Out of print. Also published as Jesus the Radical] When you buy a book using a link on this page, Greatheart’s Table receives a commission. Thank you for supporting this work! Podcast music provided by Cool Hand Luke and used with permission.Intro: “Holy Vanguard” / LyricsOutro: “Wonder Tour” / Lyrics / Video To find our more about Greatheart’s Table, visit us here.

I’m delighted here to introduce you to a friend of mine, Hannah Lane. Hannah is a 2026 Masters of Biblical Studies graduate of Reformed Theological Seminary in Orlando, Florida. She is a gifted writer and a thoughtful Christian who will soon begin work on a PhD at the University of Edinburgh in Scotland. Hannah is a poet whose work can be found at her Substack, Witness and Wonder. The link is in the show notes. Here she turns her formidable talents toward a subject that plagues pastors and others alike: imposter syndrome. We encourage you to also subscribe to our newsletter where, on third Mondays and at other times there may be additional content. You can do so here. You can help support this podcast by supporting us on Patreon. You can do so here. EPISODE NOTES Notes and resources relevant to this episode: Hannah’s poetry SubStack: Witness and Wonder AI was not used in the writing or editing of this episode. Podcast music provided by Cool Hand Luke and used with permission.Intro: “Holy Vanguard” / LyricsOutro: “Wonder Tour” / Lyrics / Video To find our more about Greatheart’s Table, visit us here.

When friends gather around a table, the conversation can be boisterous and full of laughter. Other times may call for quiet as a burden of sadness is shared around that same table. For some of us, this is a time for the latter. But in such times, we need the company of others. Not conversation, not a pocket promise book of Bible passages, but just the companionship of those who love us. We cannot fix what is broken, but we know that what is broken will be healed. We grieve, and must grieve, but we cannot do so as those without hope. And for that I am grateful. This is for Karyn, my cheerleader, my friend. We encourage you to also subscribe to our newsletter where, on third Mondays and at other times there may be additional content. You can do so here. You can help support this podcast by supporting us on Patreon. You can do so here. EPISODE NOTES Notes and resources relevant to this episode: The heart of these reflections are drawn from my book Something Worth Living For. AI was not used in the writing or editing of this episode. Podcast music provided by Cool Hand Luke and used with permission.Intro: “Holy Vanguard” / LyricsOutro: “Wonder Tour” / Lyrics / Video To find our more about Greatheart’s Table, visit us here.

I’ve said that what I like to do here is to “think sideways.” That’s a weird idea, but what I mean is that I want to think about issues affecting pastors and others not from an automatic embrace of traditional answers, nor from a knee jerk rejection of those answers. Nor am I looking for a middle ground. I’m trying, if I may steal an old Apple tag line, to “Think different.” Of course, when one does that, he runs the risk of being misunderstood. So, with this one and the next in particular, bear with me! We encourage you to also subscribe to our newsletter where, on third Mondays and at other times there may be additional content. You can do so here. You can help support this podcast by supporting us on Patreon. You can do so here. EPISODE NOTES Notes and resources relevant to this episode: AI was not used in the writing or editing of this episode. Podcast music provided by Cool Hand Luke and used with permission.Intro: “Holy Vanguard” / LyricsOutro: “Wonder Tour” / Lyrics / Video To find our more about Greatheart’s Table, visit us here.

Welcome back to this Rainy Day Conversation around Greatheart’s Table with Dr. Elizabeth Pennock, the the Director of the Master of Arts in Clinical Mental Health Counseling Program at Western Theological Seminary in Holland, Michigan. Dr. Pennock specializes in trauma and particularly how churches can care for the victims of trauma. She brings a great deal of compassion and warmth to this difficult subject. If you’ve not listened to the first part of this interview, I encourage you to do so. In the previous installment of this interview with Dr. Pennock, one of her points was that the ability to deal with trauma is born out of a healthy emotional intelligence. And so we pick up the discussion here considering something of how that can be measured or assessed, as well as developed. We encourage you to also subscribe to our newsletter where, on third Mondays and at other times there may be additional content. You can do so here. You can help support this podcast by supporting us on Patreon. You can do so here. EPISODE NOTES Notes and resources relevant to this episode: For an explanation of the name and intention of these occasional interviews, read this, or listen to it here or here. Trauma Informed Ministry Slides Emotionally Healthy Spirituality: It’s Impossible to Be Spiritually Mature, While Remaining Emotionally Immature, Peter Scazzero Attachments: Why You Love, Feel, and ACT the Way You Do, Tim Clinton and Gary Sibcy Dawn of Sunday: The Trinity and Trauma-Safe Churches, (Joshua Cockayne, Scott Harrower, Preston Hill) Mere Christianity, C. S. Lewis Under the Unpredictable Plant: An Exploration in Vocational Holiness, Eugene Peterson The Ragamuffin Gospel: Good News for the Bedraggled, Beat-Up, and Burnt Out, Brennan Manning When you buy a book using a link on this page, Greatheart’s Table receives a commission. Thank you for supporting this work! Podcast music provided by Cool Hand Luke and used with permission.Intro: “Holy Vanguard” / LyricsOutro: “Wonder Tour” / Lyrics / Video To find our more about Greatheart’s Table, visit us here.

We are joined in this episode by Dr. Elizabeth Pennock. Dr. Pennock is the Director of the Master of Arts in Clinical Mental Health Counseling Program at Western Theological Seminary in Holland, Michigan. She received her PhD at the University of Central Florida and her dissertation was titled “Trauma-Informed Clergy: An Investigation of Factors Predicting the Trauma-Related Attitudes of Christian Clergy in Florida.” She is therefore ideally situated to help pastors and others examine what they bring to ministry that is either helpful or harmful to those in their churches who have faced or are facing trauma in their lives. But it’s not just Dr. Pennock’s academic training that makes her a valuable resource. She brings to this conversation not only a love for those bearing trauma, but al a great love for the church and for those who shepherd the church. And as well she is a gentle and caring soul. I know you will benefit from her insights. This is part one of a two part conversation. I hope you are able to take in both. We encourage you to also subscribe to our newsletter where, on third Mondays and at other times there may be additional content. You can do so here. You can help support this podcast by supporting us on Patreon. You can do so here. EPISODE NOTES Notes and resources relevant to this episode: For an explanation of the name and intention of these occasional interviews, read this, or listen to it here or here. Trauma Informed Ministry Slides Emotionally Healthy Spirituality: It’s Impossible to Be Spiritually Mature, While Remaining Emotionally Immature, Peter Scazzero Attachments: Why You Love, Feel, and ACT the Way You Do, Tim Clinton and Gary Sibcy Dawn of Sunday: The Trinity and Trauma-Safe Churches, (Joshua Cockayne, Scott Harrower, Preston Hill) Mere Christianity, C. S. Lewis Under the Unpredictable Plant: An Exploration in Vocational Holiness, Eugene Peterson The Ragamuffin Gospel: Good News for the Bedraggled, Beat-Up, and Burnt Out, Brennan Manning When you buy a book using a link on this page, Greatheart’s Table receives a commission. Thank you for supporting this work! Podcast music provided by Cool Hand Luke and used with permission.Intro: “Holy Vanguard” / LyricsOutro: “Wonder Tour” / Lyrics / Video To find our more about Greatheart’s Table, visit us here.

Welcome to Greatheart’s Table, the podcast for pastors and those who care for them. And really, to be frank, this is for anyone who likes to think just a little bit sideways about life and ministry. This episode may seem like it’s not really about anything, but maybe it’s about a great deal – about what it means to be human and to love our neighbor. It’s not controversial, it’s not plowing new ground. But maybe, just maybe, the important things are neither. I’d love to know what you think. If you like what you find here, do rate, review, and refer this relentlessly. I’m grateful for each of you. We encourage you to also subscribe to our newsletter where, on third Mondays and at other times there may be additional content. You can do so here. You can help support this podcast by supporting us on Patreon. You can do so here. EPISODE NOTES Notes and resources relevant to this episode: AI was not used in the writing or editing of this episode. Podcast music provided by Cool Hand Luke and used with permission.Intro: “Holy Vanguard” / LyricsOutro: “Wonder Tour” / Lyrics / Video To find our more about Greatheart’s Table, visit us here.

Welcome to Greatheart’s Table. Pull up a chair as we revisit an episode first aired in early 2022. My concern then as now is that as critical as evangelism and kingdom growth and the Great Commission are, none of that trumps the importance of the Great Commandment. We have, it seems to me, been dancing with the wrong partner. I’d love to know what you think. There is plenty of room around Greatheart’s Table, so please invite others to join us. The podcast world is a densely populated space. We will go unnoticed without your help. Link to us on social media, and tell others about us on your platforms. Every bit helps. And do rate and review this podcast so I’ll know how we are doing. Thanks! We encourage you to also subscribe to our newsletter where, on third Mondays and at other times there may be additional content. You can do so here. You can help support this podcast by supporting us on Patreon. You can do so here. EPISODE NOTES Notes and resources relevant to this episode: Peter Adam, Speaking God’s Words: A Practical Theology of Preaching Rob Edenfield is the Senior Pastor of Treasure Coast Presbyterian Church in Stuart, Florida. Podcast music provided by Cool Hand Luke and used with permission.Intro: “Holy Vanguard” / LyricsOutro: “Wonder Tour” / Lyrics / Video To find our more about Greatheart’s Table, visit us here.

Today we welcome a guest author to the table. Rob Edenfield has been the pastor of Treasure Coast Presbyterian Church in Stuart, Florida, for nearly a decade. He is astute and cares deeply for his people. And like us all, he very much wants to hear and in fact needs to hear the gospel on those rare occasions that he is not preaching. His experience tells him that this is a harder thing to find than it should be. So I’ve asked him to write about it. If you resonate with this podcast, please rate and review it and refer it to others. And any support you can give at Patreon helps us continue to get an outlet for voices like Rob’s. Thank you. We encourage you to also subscribe to our newsletter where, on third Mondays and at other times there may be additional content. You can do so here. You can help support this podcast by supporting us on Patreon. You can do so here. EPISODE NOTES Notes and resources relevant to this episode: Peter Adam, Speaking God’s Words: A Practical Theology of Preaching Rob Edenfield is the Senior Pastor of Treasure Coast Presbyterian Church in Stuart, Florida. Podcast music provided by Cool Hand Luke and used with permission.Intro: “Holy Vanguard” / LyricsOutro: “Wonder Tour” / Lyrics / Video To find our more about Greatheart’s Table, visit us here.